Wisdom comes from experience and experimentation. Eventually, you'll have played enough and will just know what works and what doesn't. No system is perfect, but once you find one that sings to you, the flaws won't matter, you'll just make some tweaks and move forward.
lol 😂 I was really worried that this would be the advice. - the funny thing is, I’m pretty sure this is right, although I’d like a quick fix. How long have you been playing TTRPGs?
I love this style of jumping head first into a new topic and making videos with questions instead of answers. It feels like you've found a niche dialoguing with the TTRPG culture in a way that I find refreshing.
@@jobobminer8843 thank you, lol - I really appreciate all the help and advice (great recommendations) the people of this gaming community are willing to give to new players. What games do you play?
As someone who has played tons of all of those things: video games, BoardGames, TTRPGs, the only wisdom I have to offer is two-fold. 1.) you do have to try things to figure out what you like. In terms of BoardGames do you like co-op or competitive more? Worker placement or deck builders? 8hr epic games or 30 minute party games? Once you’ve played enough to understand what you and your group enjoys, then and only then can you pick up something or read a review and understand whether it’ll work for you or not. Same is true of video games and TTRPGs as well. Do you like FPS or RPGs? 100hr narratives or 10 minute arena? Do you like tactical or theatre of the mind in terms of TTRPGs combat? Learning these things will help you discern what fits you best but there’s no real shortcut to it. Made even more complex by the fact that these things aren’t mutually exclusive. Sometimes you wanna dig deep on something meaty, sometimes you just wanna spend 10 minutes cracking skulls. You just gotta pay attention to your emotions while playing. If you find yourself having a good time, what about this game do you enjoy? You talk a bit about that with marvel champions. You like some of the mechanics but don’t like the lack of player interaction. Fair enough, maybe check into some other co-op card game deck builders that feature higher player interaction. 2.) sometimes you gotta a play a game a LOT to understand it’s nuances. Something might look or feel broken out of the gate but as you get experience with it you realize there actually are answers. Pass or die saves can be a problem, but does the game offer ways of manipulating the dice? Can you use abilities to add or subtract the values? Reroll failures, increase the number of dice possible, etc. because maybe that room isn’t about just flipping a coin ending the game in a fail, maybe the game is about spending your early actions gathering and allocating resources to help you mitigate those things. You might never know it understand the implications if you don’t play it enough to figure out the nuances of a game. So, play a variety until you find stuff you like, and play those games 10 times each minimum before deciding it sucks and is broken. Also, some games are just broken and not good, lol.
I think what sets you apart from other channels is the "everyman" vibe. The fact you say "I am not even that good at this!" Is exactly what is getting you your views. (Once you consider yourself professional we're all leaving 😜)
Agree with others mentioning your "everyman" personality. That's why I like getting recommended your videos. You're enthusiastic about topics and you don't seem arrogant about them like some TTRPG youtubers appear. As for wisdom? Can't say I have much. I play games mostly with people who like crunchy systems. Personally, when I see a simple system that you can get running in like 30 minutes I wish I could try it. Something with more roleplay than wargame. So systems that make me look elsewhere would be ones with formulas for stats and a lot of modifiers.
@@munehauzen thank you for your kind encouragement. What is the game that your friends like to play with crunch? Have you found a rules lite system that really stood out to you as interesting?
@@FamilyTableTop Well, Pathfinder and D&D 5E are pretty crunchy to me. Others might disagree, but there's always some math going on there! I've wanted to try a lot of things, particularly PBTA games. Also 10 Candles looks fun and rather free-form.
I cant speak for everyone. But i watch because i see a nice dude asking geniune questions and sharing his experiences. Honestly their is no wisdom. Just read and play a bunch of stuff. I also think watching a few actual plays helps to see the mechanics and how a game feels. Theres been games i was interested in, read the book and was unsure so watched others play it on UA-cam a couple of times and was either NOPE (pathfinder) or OHH, YES PLEASE (mothership and mork borg).
Supporting independent game designers is good in and of itself, even if you end up deciding you dont love the game. Most games look good on my shelf and have some redeeming value (random charts, monsters, ideas for adventures etc) regardless. Even just looking looking at the art is valuable.
…you know what, your right. Even though I didn’t like Space Station Zero, and I was disappointed about how the game played - I do not regret supporting the creator. Well done!👍
AD&D 2e was fine except for thaco. We just ignored it. My experience with other games has been that we discuss the rules before we play it and make adjustments if need be and just ignore or do away with a rule or have a tweak that works in our session, becoming a part of our homebrew list of rules
Game play loop: Build a base, gather resources, build base bigger/better, travel to get more resources, make resources renewable near base... wait that's Minecraft's core loop ...
@@justinblocker730 lol I was thinking Conan, or Dragon age, that’s so many games… Is there a board game or tt game you’ve seen that actually runs that model?
That’s pretty much the gameplay loop for most if not all of the Year Zero Engine games from my research. The others that I know of are Aliens, Blade Runner, Coriolis, Forbidden Lands, Mutant: Year Zero, and The Walking Dead. For the wisdom part, unfortunately that comes with experience because every GM is different. I can run some games but not others and I’ve talked with other GMs that could run games that I couldn’t but I can run games they couldn’t. Five Parsecs from Home has a sister game that is fantasy instead of SciFi, Five Leagues from the Borderlands.
@@Vaerceagoth thank you for listing some other games that fit the similar play loop. That helps me to catalog the games in my list by a metric that could be helpful to parents with kids who love Minecraft game loops. Thank you also for mentioning the fantasy version of 5 Parsecs from Home.
Well, in your "tales from the loop" example, i think you're right. This game is about kids, but not recommended to play with kids. Also, it's rules light, but requires quite a good amount of roleplay and even scene setting by the players, which you won't usually find easily with newcomers to the hobby. I've read the core book, but didn't have the chance to play yet, but I'm not bringing it to play with my students group, probably wait to play with adults, and older adults for that matter, since 80s nostalgia is a heavy theme.
@@diegotartaglia that’s the feeling I got as well… feels like a game for experienced roleplayers. What games do you tend to play with your students? How old are your students? Have you found any games that they really enjoy?
@@FamilyTableTop surprisingly enough, they love Forbidden Lands, which is quite heavier in the mechanical aspect. They are around 12 years old, and even tho I tried to tone down the more graphic things, they are little devil's spreading havoc everywhere, so it ended up not being necessary at all, since they make all the heavy content themselves. Also played a FUDGE game before that, and was a great way to present them to the hobby, since it's easier to grasp and the adjective scale is great to visualize character strengths and weaknesses.
@@FamilyTableTop it vary from game to game, usually we nerf more than buff things, we dont like overpowered stuff, its like we like incremental gains but not logaritmical, if you know what i mean
My tip - Use the rules to get a feel for the sorts of things that are supposed to happen in the story you are telling. For example, in a western you get duels at high noon. If someone wanders into the desert, they start to get dehydrated but, near death, they run into a kind stranger or find respite at an oasis. In a gritty survival resource management game, things go wrong five days into a hike through snowy mountains and the survivors are really and truly on their own. They've got the supplies on their back and their own two hands. (Except for Rico who's pinky froze off two nights ago.) Once you have a sense for the story the rules are telling, you can just make rulings that make sense. Some games are just intended to have a lot of GM oversight. AKA - the GM tells you when you're trying to shoot an arrow further than makes sense for your character to do so. Its just about what feels right. Other games have a lot of rules but nobody can ever remember them all. In those games, you just do your best and fill in the rest. Finally, the game you are running and the story happening at your table is always a little different from the story intended by the designers. You're going to need to fudge the rules a little. That could mean an extra strict interpretation of a rule that might be too loose or it might be a loose interpretation of a strict rule. Often, you don't even remember what was supposed to happen and just make something up. You've talked about some OSR games which lean heavily towards the rulings over rules side. However, someone once told me that GURPS, while flexible, has a rule for everything. Just find the game that hits that balance for you and roll with it.
@@jobobminer8843 you’re idea of story telling first and the examples you give are really helpful - sometimes I tend to lean to heavily into the rule book saying that a thing can or cannot happen and forget that the rules are there to help the story… Thank you for the great advice. Do you have a favorite setting or system?
One small thing with GURPS. It actually doesn’t give you the rules for everything but it does give you the tools to make the rules that you find are missing. The best analogy is “GURPS is a workshop fully stocked with every tool imaginable with an attached machine shop so that if you ever find that you don’t have a tool you need you can make it.”
@@FamilyTableTop Be careful. With GURPS it is very easy to get lost in the minutiae. It’s also very front loaded for prep since you have to make the setting from scratch. They do provide you with extensive equipment lists at least so it’s not as bad as Hero System in that aspect. On a side note, I will never recommend Hero System. If GURPS is a workshop with attached machine shop then Hero System is just the machine shop. You have to build the equipment yourself as well, and you can make the same character four different ways for four different point costs and completely fail to be optimal because you didn’t see the obscure fifth way of doing it and end up completely underpowered compared to everyone else.
My answer is lame, but has worked for me. 1. Do your research on a new game (reviews, let's plays) to see what you like about it. Then the hardest bit,.. 2. Resist the urge to change anything the first few times you play it. See how it runs at the table before putting your homebrew hat on. I try to trust the creators and designers. but yea, not all games are for everyone and you will buy a lemon now and then. I just try to spoil (as in spoilers) myself as much as possible before putting money down, to help set my expectations.... and then, I typically over invest before my friends have had a chance to agree with me, so yea.. nobody is perfect lol. PS. i am also the kind of person to wait for a "Game of the Year" version of a video game before I buy it. I'm fairly FOMO resistant, so my personal research is typically well resourced.
@@kumithebear I really like the example you give about allowing yourself to spoil the game for yourself to make sure it’s going to work… that’s really good. What is a system that you have over invested in before you knew your friend’s thoughts about the game?
@@FamilyTableTop Ooof, ok well firstly a good example of me breaking my own rule was Shadowdark. I got on the kickstarter really early because it seemed perfect for me. 80+ sessions and 4 ennies later, seems I got lucky because both my friends and clients love it. But you might have a chance to see me fail in real time, as my recent obsession is Mothership RPG. I got the deluxe box and have spent 3 weeks printing and painting minis/terrain, and I'm yet to really talk about it in depth with my players lol. In my defense, the game has been around in one form or another for a few years, so there is lots of information/let's plays about it, and I have a good sense for what my players like.. but I will let you know in the coming weeks if it was a hit or miss. As for actual fails, its mostly been various editions of D&D, I've bought into the hype and as the editions grow with more books/rules etc, they typically end up disappointing me. It took a while for me to realize my own taste, which has become "Rules Light, Rulings over Rules" style RPGs, and not "super crunchy, rules heavy games", which I admit: does appeal to to a lot of people. Now I know what to avoid it has made choices easier, and I know what to look for when researching a game.
@@kumithebear you said I could watch you fail in real time - so you stream or record your play sessions? Or just a metaphor? I would love to hear how your mother ship games go - that’s a system I am interested in, but I’m pretty sure my group would hate it…
@@FamilyTableTop Turn of phrase, I don't record my sessions. But yea, I'll let you know how it goes: most likely in the comments of one of your future videos lol
Wisdom 1: it's important to play a game where everybody's bought into the "fantasy". Not fantasy as in the genre, fantasy as in "the thing the game is asking you to pretend to be". People will only try to do the things they think they can do, and having that fantasy will help them reach outside the rules. Wisdom 2: there's no teacher like experience, but nobody said it had to be your experience. Searching for "NAME OF GAME actual play" (no quotes) will probably get you a video or podcast of somebody else playing the game. It's maybe not the best, especially if they're hamming it up for a studio audience, and if the game's particularly obscure you might get nothing at all. Many game books will have tiny examples of rules in play, or a slice of a game session, but an actual play can help give you a picture of how it all connects together. Wisdom 3: if you want people to play into the "fantasy", you have to show them things that will respond to the fantasy more than to the rules. If you put down a tactical map and drop a bunch of skeletons that are only there to kill them, well, busting up skeletons is in the fantasy, but fighting things on a tactical map is in the rules. If you put down a bunch of goblins who heft a squirming bundle onto a warg sledge and start booking it away from the party, there probably aren't nearly as defined rules for pursuing and stopping them, but that's still a part of the fantasy. But you've probably noticed the problem here: now you have to run something there aren't any rules for. (So hopefully the game has a good enough generic resolution system to help you improvise.)
@@Glazius7 stealing wisdom!!! 👨🎓 These are great suggestions. I really like the explanation you give for number 3… that’s a really great observation and distinction between story and rules. Thank you 😊
@@Glazius7 your point about the map and miniatures is also really well made- I hadn’t thought of the grid as the literal manifestation of “the rules” - that’s really helpful
It’s funny because I know where you’re going with it. Can’t say I can add anything productive except when I get to a rule while reading the book that’s makes me ask myself “ok, how would I use or apply that in a game I’ve played? If I get too many of those question that keep me scratching my head I tend to put that game aside and move on to another game that “speaks to me “!
I pretty much only have time for one game. I work a lot of hours. When it comes to TTRPGS it us up to the GM to fill those gaps. All of them are going to have flaws that needs to be fixed. I think one thing people tend to forget about D&D it was originally created to mimic war games with some roleplaying elements. That is why most of the content revolves around combat or using the mechanics of the game. In roleplaying games that are heavy combat centric it is up to the GM to decide how the roleplaying elements work during combat. I don't play the other type of game you were speaking about. I played Magic the Gathering a long time ago, but lost interest in it. The reason why I like your videos is because you are genuine acting, not trying to be an authority, and I enjoy listening to your ideas.
@@bigH101 if I recall, you are playing DnD 5e… correct? Do your sessions have a lot of combat focus? Do your players like the combat aspect of the game? Do you mind sharing what you do for work?
@@FamilyTableTop Yes, we play 5E. There is usually combat involved in each session. Some days it is more RP than combat. Most of them really like the combat aspect. We use maps, 3 D terrain, spell rings and etc. I have one player that is very tactical, but hates dungeon crawls and is very good with roleplaying. He doesn't mind a session of dungeon crawls, just not multiple sessions of it in a row. So, I try to balance it out and try not to have dungeon crawls. I feel 2-3 combat encounters is good for a session. We also have a lot of house rules that clears up some issues with the game. For instance, your example of putting the garb over a person's head may be a bonus action with a skill check and give you advantage on your attacks and the creature disadvantage. I reward creativity in my campaigns.
I had this with forbidden lands with the travelling rules. I own Mutant years zero and can figure the actual rules out. But it broke any interest I had to actually bring the game to the table. But it's ok to hack the rules. And the ability to hack the game comes from learning a bunch of ruleset. The more you collect games systems the less likely you are to.be trumy impressed by a new game. But that's not truly an issue. Time and pacing management, map making, lore writting, improv, puzzle etc... They are many skillsets to improve. There are diminishing return but you will get more out of it than focusing on rules.
@@Minodrec your point makes sense - if someone understands multiple systems, they will be able to pick and choose mechanics to supplement something broken. Did you end up running a Forbidden Lands game?
I don't know if it's a character flaw of mine or what but I'm pretty good at jumping ship. My family is pretty flexible with some minor house ruling and none of us are really power gamers so that makes life a lot easier for us. My biggest tip is to look at every new game and every new book as a new tool in your GM Tool Box. It might not be the silver bullet you're looking for and it certainly won't be your forever game but almost everything has some inspiration that can be drawn from it. Even if that inspiration is what not to do. I got a print on demand copy a while back of "GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos" which is the first in a line of setting books for Basic D&D from the 80's. I don't think I will ever run Mystara the setting the book is for, however it completely changed the way I look at organizing information for my homebrew world. Seek out what looks cool and even if it doesn't end up being exactly what you were looking for get creative with how to utilize it in an abstract way. We're all works in progress.
@@FamilyTableTop Outside of being organized extremely well it separates what the DM should know about the setting and what the people living in the setting believe. Every single NPC written in the book has a short blurb about their personality but also a potential adventure hook you could run with. Every bit of flavour whether it's politics, culture, customs is game-able and infused with the potential for adventure. It really changed how I organize and design my world and adventures with every interaction having the potential to be a powder keg. The amount of gameplay inspiring tension and friction it weaves into its world while delivering fluff blew my mind. It's the best example template I've read of what a setting book should be and I keep it in the back of my head whenever I'm world building.
Instead of asking, 'Is there a supplement that fixes this broken rule?', maybe ask 'Will it still be fun if it doesn't get fixed?". That might help shift it from a sunk cost judgment to a value judgment. If you love something enough to play it despite its flaws, then it's not wasted effort to try and plug those gaps. Conversely...🤷♂️
@@ingetamna that’s helpful - it also removes the pressure to plug a potential hole, given that I determine there is fun to be had in the system. Thank you. 🙏
Brother, it's always changing. 30+ years gaming I've been through lots of phases. I remember stepping out of my first D&D into the wider world of RPGs, legs shaking like a newborn deer. There will be lots of recommendations but you want to selectively parse your interest. I've sold roughly 75% of all the RPG books I've ever owned because most are simply the same thing over and over again. I have two and a half bookcases full and would honestly rather have one. You will get lots of terrible suggestions. Scads of people just want to push their favorite game, not knowing your situation or whether it will bounce off your group. Recommending WEG Star Wars d6 is seemingly random and left field as nothing you've said so far has pointed in that direction at all. It was produced in the 80s actually. While it's the best of the Star Wars RPGs and possibly the best IP game there will ever be, the real question would be do you like to roll a handful of dice and add all of them up to meet or beat a Target Number? Because that's the base mechanic of the game. Mini Six: Bare Bones Edition is kind of a free version you could look up and see if it interests you (does not include Star Wars IP). What I did was look into stuff, found out what I wanted, played it, found out I didn't want it (mostly), repeat.
@@Eron_the_Relentless I think the Star Wars recommendations came after I mentioned I was a big Star Wars nerd - What have you played in a Sci-fi setting that was original - a lot of these sci-fi setting games seem like fantasy reskinned…
@@FamilyTableTop This is a lot of RPGs period. The D&D loop established itself in the zeitgeist of the hobby as a whole. Try to find a post apocalypse game that isn't just D&D + radiation, robots, mutants, and guns. I'm not much of a sci-fi guy. The only sci-fi games on my shelf are Paranoia 2E (which is the anti-D&D), Metamorphosis Alpha (which is pretty much D&D), Hulks & Horrors ( D&D in space), Classic Traveller/MegaTraveller (which relies on a Firefly-style poverty loop), Cyberpunk 2020 (mission/misery/upgrade/poverty loop), Cities Without Number (basically Cyberpunk using a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics), Stars Without Number (basically Traveller using a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics). I am a fan of Kevin Crawford, the "Without Number" guy. I'm the one who recommended you Worlds Without Number, which is a sword & sorcery fantasy game (also a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics lol). So yeah, maybe it's a bad suggestion. I never claimed to be immune.
I only ever play games that are easy to jump in and jump out of. I've made this recommendation before, Mork Borg is free (pdf is on the official site) character gen can be accomplished in less than a second via the app and all the rules are on a single concise page. So, really, all that's needed is the desire to play and 5 minutes to teach the mechanics to roll some dice
@@samgino2020 I’ve looked a Mork Borg a few times at the store - I have a real problem with the layout and font formatting. The game is a little hard to read because it’s presented like it’s the opening credits of Seven… Do you know what I mean?
FATE Accelerated is a great game. It's not swingy. It relies on characters changing aspects of the scene, and then leveraging those changes to their advantage; then they can bring down much bigger challenges than you'd think. And it all suuuuper simple. The catch, here, is that they don't really like people like us. The good news to that, however, is that the whole rule system is free and available online by them. So you don't have to give money to people who hate you. But the game is great.
Honestly yeah, experience helps sometimes but the ability to discern the right kind of game is sometimes set back by the industry's own messed-up marketing efforts. For a long time (it is changing now) game publishers haven't been the best at selling what kind of gameplay experience their game actually delivers. Some mainstream companies like Wizards of the Coast, as many small companies, just aren't good at explaining core gameplay, at least until recently. Besides, what attracts people to a new game isn't usually system first. It's the VIBE. Cover art, iconic design elements like the mechs in Lancer or Heavy Gear, or the ocean environments in Blue Planet, or the fantasy-anime style of Exalted. Even I get swayed by a cool-sounding game concept (mercenary biplane pilots in a fantasy post-WW1 world) as much as its core mechanics (PbtA with a stress loop and detailed mapless air combat rules). Try to look at reviewers, like Sly Flourish or Quinns Quest, who help explain the way the rules reinforce (or contradict) the vibe of the art and prose. It will take time and experience.
@@kaipoh265 thank you for explaining all of that. Your analysis of TTrpgs is very unique and I love the way you described the systems by their setting. I really like the way you explained the importance of “Vibes”. You did a great job of comparing the vibes to the mechanics in a really accurate way without Straw-manning the mechanics pitch. Well done. What is the ww1 combat game you described near the end? Do you have a favorite vibe?
@FamilyTableTop Oh sorry, I forgot to say it was Flying Circus by Erika Chappell. I have too many favoured vibes, from hard sci-fi to occult thrillers and spy tales. I can't pick one!
I think once you ask yourself "is this game too broken?" it's the beginning of the end of it and best to look for the next thing. Looking for an "xpac" (not revision) to fix something I don't think makes sense because the base game is still broken and is knowingly being made broken "but buy the thing to fix it!" is a bad path to go.
@@rybromide2219 👍 - this makes a lot of good sense. It’s hard to come to that conclusion especially when time has been spent learning a system and money has been spent buying the books, cards or miniatures. Thank you for the solid feedback
@@FamilyTableTop Descent 2E game was marketed as a *competitive* asymmetrical skirmish dungeon crawler. However the game is clearly skewed toward the heroes. I played multiple campaigns and the steamroller effect is staggering. It's almost impossible for a group of well organized hero players to lose a scenario - except few scenarios which are designed (either willingly or by mistake) to favor the Overlord. It makes more sense to consider the Overlord's role should be considered more like that of a DM who puts effort to defeat the heroes; somethign like a DM with a more active role.
I need a level of nuanced tactical play. While I love Forbidden Lands, the lack of playing on a grid makes me struggle with actually running the damn game. Have standards for what your style is, which you will only know by jumping through multiple games. If it takes longer than an hour to make a 1st-level-equivalent character, the game is not for me, I'm not playing to be an accountant. If I cannot understand how the game is played fundamentally and I can explain it, I refuse to look at it again (Shadowrun). The game needs some abilities to give me a sense of what I am playing, I need the classes/archetype/role to fit the fantasy of the character I would like to portray. If it doesn't, or there is a, "No, but...", not interested. Finally, no really funky dice, like DCC.
@@wickedly1 I like all your points about complexity - I think I tend to agree. For me a TTRPG should be a game that I can play with lowest common denominator players - I want to be able to play with kids and grandparents. When things get too crunchy and complicated the game is no longer for those groups of people. Could you elaborate about Shadowrun and also the DCC dice?
@FamilyTableTop It would make rolls more swingy. I saw d24 and immediately put down the book. Hahaha. Not really looking to do some crazy crazy dice, but some people love the system.
@@FamilyTableTop Yes, I prefer old school rules lite versions (usually with a lot of homebrew rules). I haven't played Shadowdark yet but like how it keeps things simple but still gives a few talents to PCs. My two boys are almost to the age where we could play some D&D style game. We have played some very rules light homebrew TTRPG together. Mostly we ask a lot of yes or no questions and flip a coin to see what happens. They really like that style of play a lot and there is no prep for me. Glad you and your family enjoy gaming so much!
@@dirkesterline2948 have you seen MausRitter? It’s a pretty simple game with a kid oriented setting. -playing as mice in a massive world. The character print outs make the game feel like a video game. It might be a game you and your boys could play together…. And I think it’s still going for about 4$ on DriveThroughRPG.
The truth is, there's no 'Perfect Game' you just have to find the one that chafes you (the GM) and your players the least. Some games are better suited for different styles or 'genres' of play and therefore better for certain kinds of players, but they ultimately all lack the finesse that is required of a GM to run the exact kind of games with the exact kind of stories you want to run. No one game can be all things to all people. That being said, there are definitely games that are better suited for a wide breadth of genres (Cypher System comes to mind) but even then, they will do some things very well and fail to do others. I would say find the system that fosters the most excitement for you and your group. No game is going to be perfect, but as long as you keep wanting to run and your players keep coming back for more then you have the right recipe.
@@ElderGoblinGames have you found a game system that bridges the gap between player and DM enjoyment? Is there a system that’s worked for you well? You mentioned Cypher system - it’s on my list, but I haven’t had some to look at how it works… could you tell me what you like about it?
@@FamilyTableTop I think the closest thing I have found for myself is Dragonbane. Though I've been very interested in running ShadowDark, I just have to find a group that's okay with a more grim dark fantasy. Cypher system is a great universal system meaning it has rules and abilities for different genres. One thing I really like about it is on the GM side of things you just need one number to run a monster. And it's always a number between 1 and 10. It's super simple and straightforward, but on the player side there are tons and tons of options. Almost too many to be honest. But for running it the core mechanics are very simple. For some they're too simple. It definitely takes a creative person to make the monsters interesting. Lots of flavor is needed.
Well my two cents is it’s up to you and your table. You all need to like what you’re playing. I could suggest a few games but it really depends on your table and I don’t know them. Like your shirt Have a good game
@@FamilyTableTop GURPS, you can play any genre of game with it, Rifts, Beyond the Supernatural both from palladium although they may be a little much for kids. We also play Star Wars Saga edition kinda like D&D roll high on a d20. We still play 3.5 too it’s pretty crunchy
@@graveyardshift2100 I do not think anyone has mentioned it. I will add the game to my list, could you tell me a little bit about the game? How does it play?
@@FamilyTableTop history lesson Tunnels and Trolls was originally made by its creator specifically because when he tried playing AD&D1e he found it too complicated. So T&T is not only possibly the second oldest ttrpg, but it is actually the oldest D&D rules hack game. Bonus; the creator has no interest in monopolizing it and long ago gave his blessing for everyone to do what they want with it, provided they simply give credit. The game is a d6 dice pool system, with skill checks, armor as damage reduction, and stat requirements to use more powerful equipment and spells. There's no initiative or even turns, everyone just rolls their damage together. The three classes are warrior, wizard, and rogue (a hybrid of the others), and the big list of monsters are all easily applied to the classes.
It's like game design. You can sit and develop mechanics until the end of time, but you can't know if your game works without playtesting. If I'm seeing if I like a new system, I challenge myself to play it at least 10 times, ideally with a few different variations (e.g. marvel champions play with different combos of heros, aspects, and villains). Really long games I'll go less typically, before I decide if it's a game for me. It's so funny you say marvel champions focuses on solo, that tells me you missed some stuff (like did you know you can activate your supports on other players turns?) Most of the solo youtubers can be found complaining about how the designs are usually are for multi-player first and solo is pretty limited what kind of decks you can build. Everyone agrees the game is way to slow with 4 people and best with 2 people.
@@anthonychaplin6232 you are correct, I forgot to mention that you can use your support cards on other players turns, you can play some support cards on other players, and you can block and defend other players from getting attacked. You are correct - there are several really good multiplayer functions that stand out as “multiplayer first” mechanics. What I mean by lack of multiplayer is that the game is largely the same with 1 vs more players. You build up your table and fight the bad guy - multiplayer and single player are very similar. There are now team up attacks (not counting the alliance cards), there are very few ways to pay for the other players cards - I know this seems like I’m being overly critical, because I am. This is a game that I would recommend to parents who want to play a card game with their kids, but I also want I be realistic about the mechanics of the game for those parents. Most of the time in a 2-4 player game, the other players are doing nothing while you take your turn, and you are doing nothing when they are taking their turns. Even the decks which are developed to be fully multiplayer enhanced, like the Cyclops Maria Hill bounce deck are still not interacting with the game on other players turns. All that said - I still like the game. 😆 Have you played the Arkham Horror LCG or the LOTRs one?
I don't know if I got your question right, but I've had a 'bad experience' just a few hours ago with the Ironsworn game system. Reading through the manual for the last few days already made me compare the game to different games/systems with similar mechanics, or mechanics with similar purposes. I thought, I immediately saw flaws and thought that the other games or systems might be better. But I still gave it a chance and what can I say: My experience was as bad as expected. And I still haven't learned from that mistake. After my initial frustration with setting up the game and then only rolling misses for half an hour, I cooled down a bit and want to give it a go again to see, if I just had very bad luck or if the system actually has flaws, I don't find in the other games or systems. With that being said, I don't actually believe it would be a better idea to *not* give the game a chance although already believing to see the flaws. Maybe the games are strong in some departments where your known games are not and you find those games enjoyable besides those flaws. I guess it depends on how much time you are willing to spend and if you are looking for the 'perfect game', which again, in my opinion at least, doesn't exist. If you take your time learning one game at a time and play a few 'focused' sessions, for the lack of a better term, then maybe you find your flaws to turn out as 'false'. But that must not be the case with every game you try. I'm curious how my next session turns out anyway. Maybe I just had very miserable luck and I would miss out on a very deep and interesting RPG experience if I didn't give it another chance.
@@UncleKalle please let me know how your next session goes. Several people in the comments have been recommending the Ironsworn and Starforge system to me and I am interested in learning the game -hoping that I can use the system to teach my son Riker a game. I do know what you mean though as well - why not give it another try… it won’t cost me any money, or learning… just a little time.
@@orkcol This was my premise going into the game. But rolling one miss after another...I ran out of options on "bad, but not...too bad" outcomes pretty quickly xD I guess, I also was in the wrong mood before attempting the session, which emphasized the outcomes to get worse by the minute. My "don't be too hard on yourself" was the restart after or in the "inciting incident", so right after swearing the first iron vow. It went better than expected :)
@@FamilyTableTop As you can see in my other comment, it went better than expected and I had fun playing the game. It was my second session, so I felt a bit "stuck" at times choosing the correct move for the situation I was in. Also, all rules basically serve the purpose of a storytelling mechanic. To give an example: In combat there is a rule that you inflict harm on enemies, but there is no concrete rule on when to suffer harm. There is a rule, that something "bad" happens to you, but you can still decide, what outcome fits into your narrative or roll on a table, with vague outcomes (oracle). You still have to interpret what that means. If you want to try it for yourself, I again recommend getting the free rules from the publishers website and have a look if it suits your taste :)
Wouldn't call this "wisdom" -- only that blindspots are inevitable in any game system. The question I ask is " Is this blindspot going to be something that will come up frequently and destabilize the gaming experience ? and can it be an opportunity for players to exploit?" Once a player figures out they can exploit something, you have to house rule to fix the issue and talk to players about it. If it is something that only comes up in a specific situation like say, only during ranged combat or some sort of specific skill challenge, then maybe it's something you just accept as a quirk or kink in the system and over time find a way to patch it up. If it does become a monumental issue -- for me in D&D 5e one of the things I hate is flying -- then you have to either set a solid guardrail and say NO to this or you have to constantly find ways to make the exploit have consequences. This is why I am more inclined for rules light or rules simple systems -- I can just make common sense judgement calls to get through the issue rather than page flip and hand wring over whether or not if changing a rules "breaks" a character build.
Those are really helpful tips on mitigating rules issues. I agree with you - it’s probably better to first determine the level or intensity of the issue prior to making patches or rules changes. Are you mostly playing in 5E?
The Swiss cheese of gaming problems, with too many holes and not enough cheese. If I were you I’d go back to a structured game with tight and tested rules such as Heroquest or Imperial Assault (I saw you have that one already.). Lord Of The Rings: Journeys To Middle Earth and Descent also come to mind. And if you can get hold of it- Space Hulk.
@@FamilyTableTop No leveling up or anything if memory serves right. The main objective is to get to the center of the space hulk to blow it up along with the aliens. Its quite difficult sometimes because you only have 5 characters and because they are in Terminator armor they can barely fit in the hallways they are walking. Combine that with the aliens popping out of vents/openings and you end up in situations where you can be surrounded and some where friendly fire or not shooting are your only options. It’s a game I’ve played with friends and it was alright. Some people like chronixchaos7081 really enjoy it and recommend it as seen above.
Perfection is not achiveable. Also DnD has mechanics only for combat, roleplay being boiled down to a talk, because it should have been a talk. In PbtA and Blades/Forged in the Dark posses roleplay mechanics and forces player to talk - but it is usually we speak to get to a point of reward not to actually roleplay. It is certainly perfect for a set theme or setting (ie. Western shooting, Asian romance etc etc) but not as free as DnD with do-what-you-want attitude. From the other side - DnD combat is more constricting while Blades and even more so PbtA are free-flowing - but DD is going to tell you what gonna kill you, with others you are not so sure and vice-versa on roleplay side of things. Good balance is more often than not offbalancing one thing with a ridiculous amount of the other - for a good measure. Then we all say it's well balanced, yet if it's perfectly balanced - it's seems bland and can be rather bland. Games or other crafts being broken mark two things - a signature and a space for improvement. Yet I am far from saying that broken is good and fixing a good thing won't make it worse. It might be also effect of above mentioned balancing, making some parts shine even brighter if there are cracks around. And vice-versa. Space Station Zero is so perfectly balanced that one crack is more than obvious - it is despicable! A crack that is unfair and will kill an entire squad. On the other hand, in early two thousand there've been plenty of adult roleplaying tabletops either rules-light or so atrociously rules-heavy that they were unplayable. From lighter ones came World of the Apocalypse, from other side a reminder what is wrong and a bunch of good memes. Funny part is that both were more intresting in premise and playing without the rules of theirs xD So a point is that they've shined while being entirely dull and abrasive on the entirety - thus we took what's the best and gone with it. But SSZ is far from being saved in other way than making it more fun and fair. It won't be scavanged, it can be fixed. But I do not think that a common man is more intrested in tweaking a game instead of playing it... Well, before I go on another rant, I should watch those vids ahead of me and like and comment every single one of yours ;3 Have a great time, mate! Godspeed!
Unfortunately, I do not. In the area of 50km/31miles or more, I has yet to see any hobby center that has figurines costing 100+ or just simply tables big enough to run something else than Monopoly or UNO. Our (me and my players) taste of wargames and skirmish games comes from TTRPGs scenarios where words either fail or aren't needed. Mostly we lean towards those TTRPGs because not only they are cheap, actually just time-consuming, but also because some of us have greater intrest in those - the reason why I also did not play any official PbtA or Forged in the Dark, tho' played in those styles with selfmade systems. Also in Mid-Eastern (yea, both) Europe where I live, most of such hobbies are contained in the big cities - the nearest one isn't even promoting or possesing visible hobby store or group. So it's 200km/124miles to 500/310 away from my home, the hobby centers I mean. Now I am working on two things mainly, alongside art-venture (music, image, animation, writing etc,) - A proper "Roadside Picnic" TTRPG and the Kingdoms - ie. random tables + grand strategy + wargame, aimed towards creating a setting and its possible story. So that is how close I am to wargames... They won't come to me with a nice figurines and proper systems, bunch of players etc.etc. - so they'll come out of me for me and my bros. Huh, I played/tested Spelljammer space battles mechanic with the bros (simple and enough for AD&D game) and been close to playing battletech, yet my bro isn't into mechs, so he refuses to play. Especially since we play 3 campaigns xD But maybe once we will... we will... On the other hand I am closer to rewriting from the notebooks hours of prep and releasing it on DriveThruRPGs as a Paywhatyouwant or completely free. I do wonder what will come first - systems, wargame play or book release xD
You're really excitable with your streams of consciousness, dude. 😅Good stuff, but just sayin. 👊🤓 Maybe you need to put together your own houserules/hodgepodge sorta monster. Read whatever you have and want, pull out all that works for you from all of them, and then create your own. Also, UA-cam here with Rules vids and coverage stuff to choose from are all over the place. Watch a lot, read online some starter pdf docs first, and then maybe dive in later.
@@retrodmray I generally try to do that with most games - I ordered Savage Worlds on Amazon after watching several videos explaining the system. I think some of the trouble with learning games on UA-cam is that there are many people playing games just because their viewers want them to play those games… their interests may have wandered long ago, but they get views for “whatever game”. So then I even have to be discerning about which UA-camrs I watch cause there are definitely “fanboys” and that’s fine, but it does make it hard to know if something is good or if it’s just popular. Does that make sense?
@@RayRobidoux I put the diaper on the PHB to take a picture for thumbnail - the point I was trying it get across was that I think DnD 5e is a system that babies it’s players.
Here's my number one red flag: If the die mechanic uses BOTH roll over mechanics and roll under mechanics (i.e. sometimes the goal is to roll high and sometimes the goal is to roll low). No joke; if a game has that, I'm out. It's just lazy design. It's the designer's job to create an immersive experience. Having to specify what kind of die roll is needed adds up to a lot of wasted time over the course of a game session and breaks the flow of the game almost every time. Here are two other issues that will turn me away from a system: Games that have both stats and stat mods (I'm looking at you OSR designers). In most games, the stat mod is the only thing that actually matters so having both is just a waste of time. Games that have the concept of rolling with advantage or disadvantage (i.e. rolling twice and taking the best or worst respectively) AND have target numbers that vary with the situation. It's clear that a number of designers are including advantage and disadvantage because that's the hipcoolneatoradwhatever thing to do. When a game already has variable target numbers, there is almost no good reason to also include advantage/disadvantage. One notable exception is games which allow the PLAYERS to be the ones creating advantage/disadvantage after the difficulty has already been set. In this case, it's a tactical tool given to the players and that can be quite fun. Anyhoo, hope that speech from my soapbox helps you out! ;-D
@@kevinnunn2653 it actually does help, thank you. I also would not like a system with roll over and under… that seems dumb. I also dislike the arbitrary advantage/disadvantage system, but I do like that the mechanic when it compliments the story. Have you found a game system that satisfies your mechanical preferences? Do you have a favorite system?
People play RPGs for different reasons. Very different reasons. Sometimes people play the game and say it is broken but the real problem is that the player(s) are attempting to play the game for reasons it doesn't support. For example, if you and your group are really into the combat simulation part of the game then games that hand wave that stuff or abstract it a lot aren't going to work for you. The game isn't necessarily broken. It just isn't made to do what you want. It's like trying to paint your bedroom with a hammer. You can do it but the process is going to suck and the end result is probably going to be less than ideal. My suggestion is to sit down and think about what makes playing fun for you. What bit of the actual play really engages you? Once you have that information, it's a lot easier to find a game that fits what you want to do.
@@AndrewCooperSooperGenius that’s very helpful advice. I think you’re correct- my son is very combat focused and he plays the game as a total murder hobo because the system is very focused on making players powerful. It’s not totally fair to call the game broken, you’re right - it was much more that the game was broken for our needs.
@@FamilyTableTop Sure. This is from the GM perspective. I rarely actually play a game. I almost always run them as the GM. I like watching and responding to my players engaging with the fictional world and making decisions about what to do and where to go. In other words I'm really into the exploration side of things where the players are moving and discovering new places, people, lore, and whatnot. That means that I'm generally fine with a system that abstracts combat quite a bit. I don't typically want combats to last a long time unless they are climactic battles. I prefer lower power level games where the PCs might be heroes but don't have super heroic powers. Because I'm trying to react to player decisions in game rather than plan some storyline, I need a game that allows me to create NPCs and monsters on the fly with minimal effort. Games with lots of tools for creating content on the fly are also very helpful. From this you can see what kinds of games I'm going to gravitate towards. Just to remove any ambiguity, I recently sent out a Pitch Document with 6 different campaigns I'd be excited to run to my group. I'm letting them rank order those campaigns and I'm going to run the one that gets the best votes. Those campaigns include the following systems: Forbidden Lands, OSE, D&D 3.5e, and Open D6: Space. D&D 3.5e is kind of an outlier there but it does scratch a certain itch.
Games I Love running now it's my Ultra Weird SD Goblin Game Because it's all fun for me as DM from prep down even if I cheat and steal spells etc from Oldhammer, And 3rd Party Supplements.
I think you realized something quickly that it took me years for me realize. That is that 5E DND IS a tactical wargame with a RPG painting on top of it. And watching your videos, it seems like you have a severe case of FOMO when it comes to TTRPGs. Go slowly. Explore the game and decide if it's for your family. If not, go to the next. Your family or you might get bored and come back later to a game, but think more about the game you are playing now instead of what MIGHT be a game you like in the future.
That’s really fair - I do tend to move from system to system… it’s quite FOMO in the way people think - I’m not trying to get in on something that other people are enjoying and afraid I’ll miss out… It’s different FOMO - my son Riker is mentally disabled and I have not found a game that he can play. We started with simple board games and then physical games, eventually I started trying simple miniature wargames. He has such a hard time learning things and harder time focusing on multi step play - I generally can tell right away if he’d be able to play a game. Sometimes I’m trying or find a game for my older son and I to play - other times I secretly hoping that Riker could learn the system. Does that make sense?
Wisdom comes from experience and experimentation. Eventually, you'll have played enough and will just know what works and what doesn't. No system is perfect, but once you find one that sings to you, the flaws won't matter, you'll just make some tweaks and move forward.
lol 😂 I was really worried that this would be the advice. - the funny thing is, I’m pretty sure this is right, although I’d like a quick fix.
How long have you been playing TTRPGs?
Absolutely 💯 spot-on, Merlinstergandaldore!
@@FamilyTableTop Oh, I've been at it since the mid 80s. Got my start with the ol' classic D&D Red Box.
@@retrodmray Hey Ray! Fancy meeting you here! Are you coming up to Clericon?
@@retrodmray lol- dang it! I wanna quick fix… 😉
I love this style of jumping head first into a new topic and making videos with questions instead of answers. It feels like you've found a niche dialoguing with the TTRPG culture in a way that I find refreshing.
@@jobobminer8843 thank you, lol - I really appreciate all the help and advice (great recommendations) the people of this gaming community are willing to give to new players.
What games do you play?
As someone who has played tons of all of those things: video games, BoardGames, TTRPGs, the only wisdom I have to offer is two-fold. 1.) you do have to try things to figure out what you like. In terms of BoardGames do you like co-op or competitive more? Worker placement or deck builders? 8hr epic games or 30 minute party games? Once you’ve played enough to understand what you and your group enjoys, then and only then can you pick up something or read a review and understand whether it’ll work for you or not. Same is true of video games and TTRPGs as well. Do you like FPS or RPGs? 100hr narratives or 10 minute arena? Do you like tactical or theatre of the mind in terms of TTRPGs combat? Learning these things will help you discern what fits you best but there’s no real shortcut to it. Made even more complex by the fact that these things aren’t mutually exclusive. Sometimes you wanna dig deep on something meaty, sometimes you just wanna spend 10 minutes cracking skulls. You just gotta pay attention to your emotions while playing. If you find yourself having a good time, what about this game do you enjoy? You talk a bit about that with marvel champions. You like some of the mechanics but don’t like the lack of player interaction. Fair enough, maybe check into some other co-op card game deck builders that feature higher player interaction. 2.) sometimes you gotta a play a game a LOT to understand it’s nuances. Something might look or feel broken out of the gate but as you get experience with it you realize there actually are answers. Pass or die saves can be a problem, but does the game offer ways of manipulating the dice? Can you use abilities to add or subtract the values? Reroll failures, increase the number of dice possible, etc. because maybe that room isn’t about just flipping a coin ending the game in a fail, maybe the game is about spending your early actions gathering and allocating resources to help you mitigate those things. You might never know it understand the implications if you don’t play it enough to figure out the nuances of a game. So, play a variety until you find stuff you like, and play those games 10 times each minimum before deciding it sucks and is broken.
Also, some games are just broken and not good, lol.
I think what sets you apart from other channels is the "everyman" vibe. The fact you say "I am not even that good at this!" Is exactly what is getting you your views. (Once you consider yourself professional we're all leaving 😜)
@@duncbot9000 lol 😂 noted! Never be professional..
thank you.
Agree with others mentioning your "everyman" personality. That's why I like getting recommended your videos. You're enthusiastic about topics and you don't seem arrogant about them like some TTRPG youtubers appear.
As for wisdom? Can't say I have much. I play games mostly with people who like crunchy systems. Personally, when I see a simple system that you can get running in like 30 minutes I wish I could try it. Something with more roleplay than wargame. So systems that make me look elsewhere would be ones with formulas for stats and a lot of modifiers.
@@munehauzen thank you for your kind encouragement.
What is the game that your friends like to play with crunch?
Have you found a rules lite system that really stood out to you as interesting?
@@FamilyTableTop Well, Pathfinder and D&D 5E are pretty crunchy to me. Others might disagree, but there's always some math going on there!
I've wanted to try a lot of things, particularly PBTA games. Also 10 Candles looks fun and rather free-form.
I cant speak for everyone. But i watch because i see a nice dude asking geniune questions and sharing his experiences.
Honestly their is no wisdom. Just read and play a bunch of stuff.
I also think watching a few actual plays helps to see the mechanics and how a game feels. Theres been games i was interested in, read the book and was unsure so watched others play it on UA-cam a couple of times and was either NOPE (pathfinder) or OHH, YES PLEASE (mothership and mork borg).
@@orkcol mother ship has interested me as well. I think I like the simplicity of the idea -
Supporting independent game designers is good in and of itself, even if you end up deciding you dont love the game. Most games look good on my shelf and have some redeeming value (random charts, monsters, ideas for adventures etc) regardless. Even just looking looking at the art is valuable.
…you know what, your right. Even though I didn’t like Space Station Zero, and I was disappointed about how the game played - I do not regret supporting the creator.
Well done!👍
AD&D 2e was fine except for thaco. We just ignored it. My experience with other games has been that we discuss the rules before we play it and make adjustments if need be and just ignore or do away with a rule or have a tweak that works in our session, becoming a part of our homebrew list of rules
@@patricianorwood1075 does your group usually agree on rules tweaking?
Reviews and real play examples
Game play loop: Build a base, gather resources, build base bigger/better, travel to get more resources, make resources renewable near base... wait that's Minecraft's core loop ...
@@justinblocker730 lol I was thinking Conan, or Dragon age, that’s so many games…
Is there a board game or tt game you’ve seen that actually runs that model?
That’s pretty much the gameplay loop for most if not all of the Year Zero Engine games from my research. The others that I know of are Aliens, Blade Runner, Coriolis, Forbidden Lands, Mutant: Year Zero, and The Walking Dead.
For the wisdom part, unfortunately that comes with experience because every GM is different. I can run some games but not others and I’ve talked with other GMs that could run games that I couldn’t but I can run games they couldn’t.
Five Parsecs from Home has a sister game that is fantasy instead of SciFi, Five Leagues from the Borderlands.
@@Vaerceagoth thank you for listing some other games that fit the similar play loop. That helps me to catalog the games in my list by a metric that could be helpful to parents with kids who love Minecraft game loops.
Thank you also for mentioning the fantasy version of 5 Parsecs from Home.
Well, in your "tales from the loop" example, i think you're right. This game is about kids, but not recommended to play with kids. Also, it's rules light, but requires quite a good amount of roleplay and even scene setting by the players, which you won't usually find easily with newcomers to the hobby. I've read the core book, but didn't have the chance to play yet, but I'm not bringing it to play with my students group, probably wait to play with adults, and older adults for that matter, since 80s nostalgia is a heavy theme.
@@diegotartaglia that’s the feeling I got as well… feels like a game for experienced roleplayers.
What games do you tend to play with your students? How old are your students? Have you found any games that they really enjoy?
@@FamilyTableTop surprisingly enough, they love Forbidden Lands, which is quite heavier in the mechanical aspect. They are around 12 years old, and even tho I tried to tone down the more graphic things, they are little devil's spreading havoc everywhere, so it ended up not being necessary at all, since they make all the heavy content themselves.
Also played a FUDGE game before that, and was a great way to present them to the hobby, since it's easier to grasp and the adjective scale is great to visualize character strengths and weaknesses.
House rules, almost every game we play we adapt to our needs
That’s a good strategy. Do you have any “go-to” house rules? Any general rules that work for any game?
@@FamilyTableTop it vary from game to game, usually we nerf more than buff things, we dont like overpowered stuff, its like we like incremental gains but not logaritmical, if you know what i mean
My tip - Use the rules to get a feel for the sorts of things that are supposed to happen in the story you are telling.
For example, in a western you get duels at high noon. If someone wanders into the desert, they start to get dehydrated but, near death, they run into a kind stranger or find respite at an oasis.
In a gritty survival resource management game, things go wrong five days into a hike through snowy mountains and the survivors are really and truly on their own. They've got the supplies on their back and their own two hands. (Except for Rico who's pinky froze off two nights ago.)
Once you have a sense for the story the rules are telling, you can just make rulings that make sense. Some games are just intended to have a lot of GM oversight. AKA - the GM tells you when you're trying to shoot an arrow further than makes sense for your character to do so. Its just about what feels right.
Other games have a lot of rules but nobody can ever remember them all. In those games, you just do your best and fill in the rest.
Finally, the game you are running and the story happening at your table is always a little different from the story intended by the designers. You're going to need to fudge the rules a little. That could mean an extra strict interpretation of a rule that might be too loose or it might be a loose interpretation of a strict rule. Often, you don't even remember what was supposed to happen and just make something up.
You've talked about some OSR games which lean heavily towards the rulings over rules side. However, someone once told me that GURPS, while flexible, has a rule for everything. Just find the game that hits that balance for you and roll with it.
@@jobobminer8843 you’re idea of story telling first and the examples you give are really helpful - sometimes I tend to lean to heavily into the rule book saying that a thing can or cannot happen and forget that the rules are there to help the story…
Thank you for the great advice.
Do you have a favorite setting or system?
One small thing with GURPS. It actually doesn’t give you the rules for everything but it does give you the tools to make the rules that you find are missing. The best analogy is “GURPS is a workshop fully stocked with every tool imaginable with an attached machine shop so that if you ever find that you don’t have a tool you need you can make it.”
@@Vaerceagoth that sounds very comprehensive- I’m going to have to look up a deep dive into to the system…
@@FamilyTableTop Be careful. With GURPS it is very easy to get lost in the minutiae. It’s also very front loaded for prep since you have to make the setting from scratch. They do provide you with extensive equipment lists at least so it’s not as bad as Hero System in that aspect.
On a side note, I will never recommend Hero System. If GURPS is a workshop with attached machine shop then Hero System is just the machine shop. You have to build the equipment yourself as well, and you can make the same character four different ways for four different point costs and completely fail to be optimal because you didn’t see the obscure fifth way of doing it and end up completely underpowered compared to everyone else.
My answer is lame, but has worked for me. 1. Do your research on a new game (reviews, let's plays) to see what you like about it. Then the hardest bit,.. 2. Resist the urge to change anything the first few times you play it. See how it runs at the table before putting your homebrew hat on.
I try to trust the creators and designers. but yea, not all games are for everyone and you will buy a lemon now and then. I just try to spoil (as in spoilers) myself as much as possible before putting money down, to help set my expectations.... and then, I typically over invest before my friends have had a chance to agree with me, so yea.. nobody is perfect lol.
PS. i am also the kind of person to wait for a "Game of the Year" version of a video game before I buy it. I'm fairly FOMO resistant, so my personal research is typically well resourced.
@@kumithebear I really like the example you give about allowing yourself to spoil the game for yourself to make sure it’s going to work… that’s really good.
What is a system that you have over invested in before you knew your friend’s thoughts about the game?
@@FamilyTableTop Ooof, ok well firstly a good example of me breaking my own rule was Shadowdark. I got on the kickstarter really early because it seemed perfect for me. 80+ sessions and 4 ennies later, seems I got lucky because both my friends and clients love it.
But you might have a chance to see me fail in real time, as my recent obsession is Mothership RPG. I got the deluxe box and have spent 3 weeks printing and painting minis/terrain, and I'm yet to really talk about it in depth with my players lol.
In my defense, the game has been around in one form or another for a few years, so there is lots of information/let's plays about it, and I have a good sense for what my players like.. but I will let you know in the coming weeks if it was a hit or miss.
As for actual fails, its mostly been various editions of D&D, I've bought into the hype and as the editions grow with more books/rules etc, they typically end up disappointing me. It took a while for me to realize my own taste, which has become "Rules Light, Rulings over Rules" style RPGs, and not "super crunchy, rules heavy games", which I admit: does appeal to to a lot of people. Now I know what to avoid it has made choices easier, and I know what to look for when researching a game.
@@kumithebear you said I could watch you fail in real time - so you stream or record your play sessions? Or just a metaphor?
I would love to hear how your mother ship games go - that’s a system I am interested in, but I’m pretty sure my group would hate it…
@@FamilyTableTop Turn of phrase, I don't record my sessions. But yea, I'll let you know how it goes: most likely in the comments of one of your future videos lol
@@kumithebear sounds good. Thank you
Wisdom 1: it's important to play a game where everybody's bought into the "fantasy". Not fantasy as in the genre, fantasy as in "the thing the game is asking you to pretend to be". People will only try to do the things they think they can do, and having that fantasy will help them reach outside the rules.
Wisdom 2: there's no teacher like experience, but nobody said it had to be your experience. Searching for "NAME OF GAME actual play" (no quotes) will probably get you a video or podcast of somebody else playing the game. It's maybe not the best, especially if they're hamming it up for a studio audience, and if the game's particularly obscure you might get nothing at all. Many game books will have tiny examples of rules in play, or a slice of a game session, but an actual play can help give you a picture of how it all connects together.
Wisdom 3: if you want people to play into the "fantasy", you have to show them things that will respond to the fantasy more than to the rules. If you put down a tactical map and drop a bunch of skeletons that are only there to kill them, well, busting up skeletons is in the fantasy, but fighting things on a tactical map is in the rules. If you put down a bunch of goblins who heft a squirming bundle onto a warg sledge and start booking it away from the party, there probably aren't nearly as defined rules for pursuing and stopping them, but that's still a part of the fantasy. But you've probably noticed the problem here: now you have to run something there aren't any rules for. (So hopefully the game has a good enough generic resolution system to help you improvise.)
@@Glazius7 stealing wisdom!!! 👨🎓
These are great suggestions. I really like the explanation you give for number 3… that’s a really great observation and distinction between story and rules.
Thank you 😊
@@Glazius7 your point about the map and miniatures is also really well made- I hadn’t thought of the grid as the literal manifestation of “the rules” - that’s really helpful
It’s funny because I know where you’re going with it. Can’t say I can add anything productive except when I get to a rule while reading the book that’s makes me ask myself “ok, how would I use or apply that in a game I’ve played? If I get too many of those question that keep me scratching my head I tend to put that game aside and move on to another game that “speaks to me “!
@@CJ_esc.artist that’s a good metric - maybe I should use a “balls and strikes” system…
@@FamilyTableTop that actually sounds like a great idea/system that I, myself may implement!!!
@@CJ_esc.artist lol - you get the credit I thought was summarizing your point. 😉
I pretty much only have time for one game. I work a lot of hours. When it comes to TTRPGS it us up to the GM to fill those gaps. All of them are going to have flaws that needs to be fixed. I think one thing people tend to forget about D&D it was originally created to mimic war games with some roleplaying elements. That is why most of the content revolves around combat or using the mechanics of the game. In roleplaying games that are heavy combat centric it is up to the GM to decide how the roleplaying elements work during combat. I don't play the other type of game you were speaking about. I played Magic the Gathering a long time ago, but lost interest in it. The reason why I like your videos is because you are genuine acting, not trying to be an authority, and I enjoy listening to your ideas.
@@bigH101 if I recall, you are playing DnD 5e… correct? Do your sessions have a lot of combat focus? Do your players like the combat aspect of the game?
Do you mind sharing what you do for work?
@@FamilyTableTop Yes, we play 5E. There is usually combat involved in each session. Some days it is more RP than combat. Most of them really like the combat aspect. We use maps, 3 D terrain, spell rings and etc. I have one player that is very tactical, but hates dungeon crawls and is very good with roleplaying. He doesn't mind a session of dungeon crawls, just not multiple sessions of it in a row. So, I try to balance it out and try not to have dungeon crawls. I feel 2-3 combat encounters is good for a session.
We also have a lot of house rules that clears up some issues with the game. For instance, your example of putting the garb over a person's head may be a bonus action with a skill check and give you advantage on your attacks and the creature disadvantage. I reward creativity in my campaigns.
I had this with forbidden lands with the travelling rules. I own Mutant years zero and can figure the actual rules out. But it broke any interest I had to actually bring the game to the table.
But it's ok to hack the rules. And the ability to hack the game comes from learning a bunch of ruleset.
The more you collect games systems the less likely you are to.be trumy impressed by a new game. But that's not truly an issue.
Time and pacing management, map making, lore writting, improv, puzzle etc... They are many skillsets to improve. There are diminishing return but you will get more out of it than focusing on rules.
@@Minodrec your point makes sense - if someone understands multiple systems, they will be able to pick and choose mechanics to supplement something broken.
Did you end up running a Forbidden Lands game?
I don't know if it's a character flaw of mine or what but I'm pretty good at jumping ship. My family is pretty flexible with some minor house ruling and none of us are really power gamers so that makes life a lot easier for us.
My biggest tip is to look at every new game and every new book as a new tool in your GM Tool Box. It might not be the silver bullet you're looking for and it certainly won't be your forever game but almost everything has some inspiration that can be drawn from it. Even if that inspiration is what not to do. I got a print on demand copy a while back of "GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos" which is the first in a line of setting books for Basic D&D from the 80's. I don't think I will ever run Mystara the setting the book is for, however it completely changed the way I look at organizing information for my homebrew world. Seek out what looks cool and even if it doesn't end up being exactly what you were looking for get creative with how to utilize it in an abstract way. We're all works in progress.
@@jynirax can you tell me about how the Grand Duchy book changed you way of thinking?
@@FamilyTableTop Outside of being organized extremely well it separates what the DM should know about the setting and what the people living in the setting believe. Every single NPC written in the book has a short blurb about their personality but also a potential adventure hook you could run with. Every bit of flavour whether it's politics, culture, customs is game-able and infused with the potential for adventure. It really changed how I organize and design my world and adventures with every interaction having the potential to be a powder keg. The amount of gameplay inspiring tension and friction it weaves into its world while delivering fluff blew my mind. It's the best example template I've read of what a setting book should be and I keep it in the back of my head whenever I'm world building.
Instead of asking, 'Is there a supplement that fixes this broken rule?', maybe ask 'Will it still be fun if it doesn't get fixed?". That might help shift it from a sunk cost judgment to a value judgment. If you love something enough to play it despite its flaws, then it's not wasted effort to try and plug those gaps. Conversely...🤷♂️
@@ingetamna that’s helpful - it also removes the pressure to plug a potential hole, given that I determine there is fun to be had in the system.
Thank you. 🙏
Brother, it's always changing. 30+ years gaming I've been through lots of phases. I remember stepping out of my first D&D into the wider world of RPGs, legs shaking like a newborn deer. There will be lots of recommendations but you want to selectively parse your interest. I've sold roughly 75% of all the RPG books I've ever owned because most are simply the same thing over and over again. I have two and a half bookcases full and would honestly rather have one.
You will get lots of terrible suggestions. Scads of people just want to push their favorite game, not knowing your situation or whether it will bounce off your group. Recommending WEG Star Wars d6 is seemingly random and left field as nothing you've said so far has pointed in that direction at all. It was produced in the 80s actually. While it's the best of the Star Wars RPGs and possibly the best IP game there will ever be, the real question would be do you like to roll a handful of dice and add all of them up to meet or beat a Target Number? Because that's the base mechanic of the game. Mini Six: Bare Bones Edition is kind of a free version you could look up and see if it interests you (does not include Star Wars IP).
What I did was look into stuff, found out what I wanted, played it, found out I didn't want it (mostly), repeat.
@@Eron_the_Relentless I think the Star Wars recommendations came after I mentioned I was a big Star Wars nerd -
What have you played in a Sci-fi setting that was original - a lot of these sci-fi setting games seem like fantasy reskinned…
@@FamilyTableToptheres a game called offworlders. Its a Pbta game in space. Worth looking at.
@@FamilyTableTop This is a lot of RPGs period. The D&D loop established itself in the zeitgeist of the hobby as a whole. Try to find a post apocalypse game that isn't just D&D + radiation, robots, mutants, and guns.
I'm not much of a sci-fi guy. The only sci-fi games on my shelf are Paranoia 2E (which is the anti-D&D), Metamorphosis Alpha (which is pretty much D&D), Hulks & Horrors ( D&D in space), Classic Traveller/MegaTraveller (which relies on a Firefly-style poverty loop), Cyberpunk 2020 (mission/misery/upgrade/poverty loop), Cities Without Number (basically Cyberpunk using a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics), Stars Without Number (basically Traveller using a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics).
I am a fan of Kevin Crawford, the "Without Number" guy. I'm the one who recommended you Worlds Without Number, which is a sword & sorcery fantasy game (also a hybrid of B/X and Traveller mechanics lol). So yeah, maybe it's a bad suggestion. I never claimed to be immune.
@@orkcol adding it to the list. Thank you.
@@FamilyTableTop 🫡
I only ever play games that are easy to jump in and jump out of. I've made this recommendation before, Mork Borg is free (pdf is on the official site) character gen can be accomplished in less than a second via the app and all the rules are on a single concise page. So, really, all that's needed is the desire to play and 5 minutes to teach the mechanics to roll some dice
@@samgino2020 I’ve looked a Mork Borg a few times at the store - I have a real problem with the layout and font formatting.
The game is a little hard to read because it’s presented like it’s the opening credits of Seven…
Do you know what I mean?
@FamilyTableTop I'm aware, which is why I keep mentioning the pdf. It's no nonsense, black and white. Perfect for just the rules
@FamilyTableTop the rules are also on both the front and back covers, so you don't need to flip around pages
@@samgino2020 I didn’t realize that. Thank you for clarifying - I’ll take a better look
FATE Accelerated is a great game. It's not swingy. It relies on characters changing aspects of the scene, and then leveraging those changes to their advantage; then they can bring down much bigger challenges than you'd think. And it all suuuuper simple. The catch, here, is that they don't really like people like us. The good news to that, however, is that the whole rule system is free and available online by them. So you don't have to give money to people who hate you. But the game is great.
@@StagRPG are they the company that said they don’t want “white men” playing their games?
@@FamilyTableTop If that was them, I didn't catch that. I wouldn't think so? But, they are *certainly* all about The Message™.
@@StagRPG lol. I only hear the Critical Drinker when I read those words… “Go away now.”
Honestly yeah, experience helps sometimes but the ability to discern the right kind of game is sometimes set back by the industry's own messed-up marketing efforts. For a long time (it is changing now) game publishers haven't been the best at selling what kind of gameplay experience their game actually delivers. Some mainstream companies like Wizards of the Coast, as many small companies, just aren't good at explaining core gameplay, at least until recently.
Besides, what attracts people to a new game isn't usually system first. It's the VIBE. Cover art, iconic design elements like the mechs in Lancer or Heavy Gear, or the ocean environments in Blue Planet, or the fantasy-anime style of Exalted. Even I get swayed by a cool-sounding game concept (mercenary biplane pilots in a fantasy post-WW1 world) as much as its core mechanics (PbtA with a stress loop and detailed mapless air combat rules).
Try to look at reviewers, like Sly Flourish or Quinns Quest, who help explain the way the rules reinforce (or contradict) the vibe of the art and prose. It will take time and experience.
@@kaipoh265 thank you for explaining all of that. Your analysis of TTrpgs is very unique and I love the way you described the systems by their setting.
I really like the way you explained the importance of “Vibes”. You did a great job of comparing the vibes to the mechanics in a really accurate way without Straw-manning the mechanics pitch.
Well done.
What is the ww1 combat game you described near the end?
Do you have a favorite vibe?
@FamilyTableTop Oh sorry, I forgot to say it was Flying Circus by Erika Chappell. I have too many favoured vibes, from hard sci-fi to occult thrillers and spy tales. I can't pick one!
I think once you ask yourself "is this game too broken?" it's the beginning of the end of it and best to look for the next thing. Looking for an "xpac" (not revision) to fix something I don't think makes sense because the base game is still broken and is knowingly being made broken "but buy the thing to fix it!" is a bad path to go.
@@rybromide2219 👍 - this makes a lot of good sense. It’s hard to come to that conclusion especially when time has been spent learning a system and money has been spent buying the books, cards or miniatures.
Thank you for the solid feedback
I had this experience with D2E. It's not like the game itself is broken. It's premise and the way it was marketed was wrong.
@@lucasterable interesting, how so? What were they selling the game as?
@@FamilyTableTop Descent 2E game was marketed as a *competitive* asymmetrical skirmish dungeon crawler. However the game is clearly skewed toward the heroes. I played multiple campaigns and the steamroller effect is staggering. It's almost impossible for a group of well organized hero players to lose a scenario - except few scenarios which are designed (either willingly or by mistake) to favor the Overlord. It makes more sense to consider the Overlord's role should be considered more like that of a DM who puts effort to defeat the heroes; somethign like a DM with a more active role.
I need a level of nuanced tactical play. While I love Forbidden Lands, the lack of playing on a grid makes me struggle with actually running the damn game. Have standards for what your style is, which you will only know by jumping through multiple games. If it takes longer than an hour to make a 1st-level-equivalent character, the game is not for me, I'm not playing to be an accountant. If I cannot understand how the game is played fundamentally and I can explain it, I refuse to look at it again (Shadowrun). The game needs some abilities to give me a sense of what I am playing, I need the classes/archetype/role to fit the fantasy of the character I would like to portray. If it doesn't, or there is a, "No, but...", not interested. Finally, no really funky dice, like DCC.
@@wickedly1 I like all your points about complexity - I think I tend to agree.
For me a TTRPG should be a game that I can play with lowest common denominator players - I want to be able to play with kids and grandparents. When things get too crunchy and complicated the game is no longer for those groups of people.
Could you elaborate about Shadowrun and also the DCC dice?
@@FamilyTableTop Shadowrun, you can roll 20d6 for a single roll. DCC, they have d24s and d30s.
@@wickedly1 so you need to buy a special dice for the game… does rolling a d24/d30 make the game very random?
@FamilyTableTop It would make rolls more swingy. I saw d24 and immediately put down the book. Hahaha. Not really looking to do some crazy crazy dice, but some people love the system.
Heroquest is a great Dungeon Crawl that is easy to play with kids and adults. No funny voices required.
@@dirkesterline2948 thank you for the recommendation.
Do you play a TTRPG?
@@FamilyTableTop Yes, I prefer old school rules lite versions (usually with a lot of homebrew rules). I haven't played Shadowdark yet but like how it keeps things simple but still gives a few talents to PCs. My two boys are almost to the age where we could play some D&D style game. We have played some very rules light homebrew TTRPG together. Mostly we ask a lot of yes or no questions and flip a coin to see what happens. They really like that style of play a lot and there is no prep for me. Glad you and your family enjoy gaming so much!
@@dirkesterline2948 have you seen MausRitter? It’s a pretty simple game with a kid oriented setting. -playing as mice in a massive world.
The character print outs make the game feel like a video game.
It might be a game you and your boys could play together…. And I think it’s still going for about 4$ on DriveThroughRPG.
@@FamilyTableTop Thanks! I will check that one out.
The truth is, there's no 'Perfect Game' you just have to find the one that chafes you (the GM) and your players the least.
Some games are better suited for different styles or 'genres' of play and therefore better for certain kinds of players, but they ultimately all lack the finesse that is required of a GM to run the exact kind of games with the exact kind of stories you want to run. No one game can be all things to all people.
That being said, there are definitely games that are better suited for a wide breadth of genres (Cypher System comes to mind) but even then, they will do some things very well and fail to do others.
I would say find the system that fosters the most excitement for you and your group. No game is going to be perfect, but as long as you keep wanting to run and your players keep coming back for more then you have the right recipe.
@@ElderGoblinGames have you found a game system that bridges the gap between player and DM enjoyment? Is there a system that’s worked for you well?
You mentioned Cypher system - it’s on my list, but I haven’t had some to look at how it works… could you tell me what you like about it?
@@FamilyTableTop I think the closest thing I have found for myself is Dragonbane. Though I've been very interested in running ShadowDark, I just have to find a group that's okay with a more grim dark fantasy.
Cypher system is a great universal system meaning it has rules and abilities for different genres. One thing I really like about it is on the GM side of things you just need one number to run a monster. And it's always a number between 1 and 10. It's super simple and straightforward, but on the player side there are tons and tons of options. Almost too many to be honest.
But for running it the core mechanics are very simple. For some they're too simple. It definitely takes a creative person to make the monsters interesting. Lots of flavor is needed.
Well my two cents is it’s up to you and your table. You all need to like what you’re playing. I could suggest a few games but it really depends on your table and I don’t know them.
Like your shirt
Have a good game
@@RIVERSRPGChannel let’s hear your suggestions… I’m always open to learn what people like
@@FamilyTableTop GURPS, you can play any genre of game with it, Rifts, Beyond the Supernatural both from palladium although they may be a little much for kids. We also play Star Wars Saga edition kinda like D&D roll high on a d20. We still play 3.5 too it’s pretty crunchy
If nobody has mentioned it
Tunnels and Trolls Deluxe Edition
@@graveyardshift2100 I do not think anyone has mentioned it. I will add the game to my list, could you tell me a little bit about the game? How does it play?
@@FamilyTableTop history lesson
Tunnels and Trolls was originally made by its creator specifically because when he tried playing AD&D1e he found it too complicated. So T&T is not only possibly the second oldest ttrpg, but it is actually the oldest D&D rules hack game.
Bonus; the creator has no interest in monopolizing it and long ago gave his blessing for everyone to do what they want with it, provided they simply give credit.
The game is a d6 dice pool system, with skill checks, armor as damage reduction, and stat requirements to use more powerful equipment and spells. There's no initiative or even turns, everyone just rolls their damage together. The three classes are warrior, wizard, and rogue (a hybrid of the others), and the big list of monsters are all easily applied to the classes.
@@graveyardshift2100 thank you for the summary. I really appreciate you explaining and breaking down the game loop.
@@FamilyTableTop no problem!
It's a game that honestly needs more attention just for how old and connected to d&d it is, but you know how gamers are.
@@graveyardshift2100 right - can it be found on DriveThroughRPG?
It's like game design. You can sit and develop mechanics until the end of time, but you can't know if your game works without playtesting. If I'm seeing if I like a new system, I challenge myself to play it at least 10 times, ideally with a few different variations (e.g. marvel champions play with different combos of heros, aspects, and villains). Really long games I'll go less typically, before I decide if it's a game for me. It's so funny you say marvel champions focuses on solo, that tells me you missed some stuff (like did you know you can activate your supports on other players turns?) Most of the solo youtubers can be found complaining about how the designs are usually are for multi-player first and solo is pretty limited what kind of decks you can build. Everyone agrees the game is way to slow with 4 people and best with 2 people.
@@anthonychaplin6232 you are correct, I forgot to mention that you can use your support cards on other players turns, you can play some support cards on other players, and you can block and defend other players from getting attacked.
You are correct - there are several really good multiplayer functions that stand out as “multiplayer first” mechanics.
What I mean by lack of multiplayer is that the game is largely the same with 1 vs more players. You build up your table and fight the bad guy - multiplayer and single player are very similar. There are now team up attacks (not counting the alliance cards), there are very few ways to pay for the other players cards -
I know this seems like I’m being overly critical, because I am. This is a game that I would recommend to parents who want to play a card game with their kids, but I also want I be realistic about the mechanics of the game for those parents.
Most of the time in a 2-4 player game, the other players are doing nothing while you take your turn, and you are doing nothing when they are taking their turns.
Even the decks which are developed to be fully multiplayer enhanced, like the Cyclops Maria Hill bounce deck are still not interacting with the game on other players turns.
All that said - I still like the game. 😆
Have you played the Arkham Horror LCG or the LOTRs one?
I don't know if I got your question right, but I've had a 'bad experience' just a few hours ago with the Ironsworn game system. Reading through the manual for the last few days already made me compare the game to different games/systems with similar mechanics, or mechanics with similar purposes. I thought, I immediately saw flaws and thought that the other games or systems might be better. But I still gave it a chance and what can I say: My experience was as bad as expected. And I still haven't learned from that mistake. After my initial frustration with setting up the game and then only rolling misses for half an hour, I cooled down a bit and want to give it a go again to see, if I just had very bad luck or if the system actually has flaws, I don't find in the other games or systems.
With that being said, I don't actually believe it would be a better idea to *not* give the game a chance although already believing to see the flaws. Maybe the games are strong in some departments where your known games are not and you find those games enjoyable besides those flaws.
I guess it depends on how much time you are willing to spend and if you are looking for the 'perfect game', which again, in my opinion at least, doesn't exist. If you take your time learning one game at a time and play a few 'focused' sessions, for the lack of a better term, then maybe you find your flaws to turn out as 'false'. But that must not be the case with every game you try.
I'm curious how my next session turns out anyway. Maybe I just had very miserable luck and I would miss out on a very deep and interesting RPG experience if I didn't give it another chance.
@@UncleKalle please let me know how your next session goes. Several people in the comments have been recommending the Ironsworn and Starforge system to me and I am interested in learning the game -hoping that I can use the system to teach my son Riker a game.
I do know what you mean though as well - why not give it another try… it won’t cost me any money, or learning… just a little time.
Ironsworn in savage, remember in solo games to not be as hard on yourself as you would in a group.
@@orkcol This was my premise going into the game. But rolling one miss after another...I ran out of options on "bad, but not...too bad" outcomes pretty quickly xD I guess, I also was in the wrong mood before attempting the session, which emphasized the outcomes to get worse by the minute.
My "don't be too hard on yourself" was the restart after or in the "inciting incident", so right after swearing the first iron vow. It went better than expected :)
@@FamilyTableTop As you can see in my other comment, it went better than expected and I had fun playing the game. It was my second session, so I felt a bit "stuck" at times choosing the correct move for the situation I was in.
Also, all rules basically serve the purpose of a storytelling mechanic. To give an example: In combat there is a rule that you inflict harm on enemies, but there is no concrete rule on when to suffer harm. There is a rule, that something "bad" happens to you, but you can still decide, what outcome fits into your narrative or roll on a table, with vague outcomes (oracle). You still have to interpret what that means.
If you want to try it for yourself, I again recommend getting the free rules from the publishers website and have a look if it suits your taste :)
Wouldn't call this "wisdom" -- only that blindspots are inevitable in any game system. The question I ask is " Is this blindspot going to be something that will come up frequently and destabilize the gaming experience ? and can it be an opportunity for players to exploit?" Once a player figures out they can exploit something, you have to house rule to fix the issue and talk to players about it. If it is something that only comes up in a specific situation like say, only during ranged combat or some sort of specific skill challenge, then maybe it's something you just accept as a quirk or kink in the system and over time find a way to patch it up. If it does become a monumental issue -- for me in D&D 5e one of the things I hate is flying -- then you have to either set a solid guardrail and say NO to this or you have to constantly find ways to make the exploit have consequences. This is why I am more inclined for rules light or rules simple systems -- I can just make common sense judgement calls to get through the issue rather than page flip and hand wring over whether or not if changing a rules "breaks" a character build.
Those are really helpful tips on mitigating rules issues. I agree with you - it’s probably better to first determine the level or intensity of the issue prior to making patches or rules changes.
Are you mostly playing in 5E?
The Swiss cheese of gaming problems, with too many holes and not enough cheese. If I were you I’d go back to a structured game with tight and tested rules such as Heroquest or Imperial Assault (I saw you have that one already.). Lord Of The Rings: Journeys To Middle Earth and Descent also come to mind. And if you can get hold of it- Space Hulk.
@@chronixchaos7081 what is Space Hulk?
@@FamilyTableTopShort and sweet. WH40K boardgame. Players play as Space Marine Terminators and explore a space dungeon and kill aliens.
@@The-0ni really? It’s good? Is it like Descent or Star Wars Imperial Assault? Can players “level up” and get new equipment?
@@FamilyTableTop No leveling up or anything if memory serves right. The main objective is to get to the center of the space hulk to blow it up along with the aliens.
Its quite difficult sometimes because you only have 5 characters and because they are in Terminator armor they can barely fit in the hallways they are walking. Combine that with the aliens popping out of vents/openings and you end up in situations where you can be surrounded and some where friendly fire or not shooting are your only options.
It’s a game I’ve played with friends and it was alright. Some people like chronixchaos7081 really enjoy it and recommend it as seen above.
@@FamilyTableTop I wish I could answer but someone or UA-cam is deleting my comments.
Perfection is not achiveable. Also DnD has mechanics only for combat, roleplay being boiled down to a talk, because it should have been a talk. In PbtA and Blades/Forged in the Dark posses roleplay mechanics and forces player to talk - but it is usually we speak to get to a point of reward not to actually roleplay. It is certainly perfect for a set theme or setting (ie. Western shooting, Asian romance etc etc) but not as free as DnD with do-what-you-want attitude. From the other side - DnD combat is more constricting while Blades and even more so PbtA are free-flowing - but DD is going to tell you what gonna kill you, with others you are not so sure and vice-versa on roleplay side of things.
Good balance is more often than not offbalancing one thing with a ridiculous amount of the other - for a good measure. Then we all say it's well balanced, yet if it's perfectly balanced - it's seems bland and can be rather bland. Games or other crafts being broken mark two things - a signature and a space for improvement. Yet I am far from saying that broken is good and fixing a good thing won't make it worse. It might be also effect of above mentioned balancing, making some parts shine even brighter if there are cracks around. And vice-versa.
Space Station Zero is so perfectly balanced that one crack is more than obvious - it is despicable! A crack that is unfair and will kill an entire squad. On the other hand, in early two thousand there've been plenty of adult roleplaying tabletops either rules-light or so atrociously rules-heavy that they were unplayable. From lighter ones came World of the Apocalypse, from other side a reminder what is wrong and a bunch of good memes. Funny part is that both were more intresting in premise and playing without the rules of theirs xD
So a point is that they've shined while being entirely dull and abrasive on the entirety - thus we took what's the best and gone with it.
But SSZ is far from being saved in other way than making it more fun and fair. It won't be scavanged, it can be fixed. But I do not think that a common man is more intrested in tweaking a game instead of playing it...
Well, before I go on another rant, I should watch those vids ahead of me and like and comment every single one of yours ;3
Have a great time, mate! Godspeed!
Thank you so much. I really appreciate reading your comments.
Do you plan skirmish games? Do you like wargames as much as TTRPGs?
Unfortunately, I do not. In the area of 50km/31miles or more, I has yet to see any hobby center that has figurines costing 100+ or just simply tables big enough to run something else than Monopoly or UNO.
Our (me and my players) taste of wargames and skirmish games comes from TTRPGs scenarios where words either fail or aren't needed. Mostly we lean towards those TTRPGs because not only they are cheap, actually just time-consuming, but also because some of us have greater intrest in those - the reason why I also did not play any official PbtA or Forged in the Dark, tho' played in those styles with selfmade systems.
Also in Mid-Eastern (yea, both) Europe where I live, most of such hobbies are contained in the big cities - the nearest one isn't even promoting or possesing visible hobby store or group. So it's 200km/124miles to 500/310 away from my home, the hobby centers I mean.
Now I am working on two things mainly, alongside art-venture (music, image, animation, writing etc,) - A proper "Roadside Picnic" TTRPG and the Kingdoms - ie. random tables + grand strategy + wargame, aimed towards creating a setting and its possible story. So that is how close I am to wargames... They won't come to me with a nice figurines and proper systems, bunch of players etc.etc. - so they'll come out of me for me and my bros.
Huh, I played/tested Spelljammer space battles mechanic with the bros (simple and enough for AD&D game) and been close to playing battletech, yet my bro isn't into mechs, so he refuses to play. Especially since we play 3 campaigns xD
But maybe once we will... we will...
On the other hand I am closer to rewriting from the notebooks hours of prep and releasing it on DriveThruRPGs as a Paywhatyouwant or completely free. I do wonder what will come first - systems, wargame play or book release xD
You're really excitable with your streams of consciousness, dude. 😅Good stuff, but just sayin. 👊🤓 Maybe you need to put together your own houserules/hodgepodge sorta monster. Read whatever you have and want, pull out all that works for you from all of them, and then create your own.
Also, UA-cam here with Rules vids and coverage stuff to choose from are all over the place. Watch a lot, read online some starter pdf docs first, and then maybe dive in later.
@@retrodmray I generally try to do that with most games - I ordered Savage Worlds on Amazon after watching several videos explaining the system.
I think some of the trouble with learning games on UA-cam is that there are many people playing games just because their viewers want them to play those games… their interests may have wandered long ago, but they get views for “whatever game”.
So then I even have to be discerning about which UA-camrs I watch cause there are definitely “fanboys” and that’s fine, but it does make it hard to know if something is good or if it’s just popular.
Does that make sense?
Honest question you might have answered before: why the diapers on D&D 5e books?
@@RayRobidoux I put the diaper on the PHB to take a picture for thumbnail - the point I was trying it get across was that I think DnD 5e is a system that babies it’s players.
@@FamilyTableTop Thank you!
Here's my number one red flag:
If the die mechanic uses BOTH roll over mechanics and roll under mechanics (i.e. sometimes the goal is to roll high and sometimes the goal is to roll low). No joke; if a game has that, I'm out. It's just lazy design. It's the designer's job to create an immersive experience. Having to specify what kind of die roll is needed adds up to a lot of wasted time over the course of a game session and breaks the flow of the game almost every time.
Here are two other issues that will turn me away from a system:
Games that have both stats and stat mods (I'm looking at you OSR designers). In most games, the stat mod is the only thing that actually matters so having both is just a waste of time.
Games that have the concept of rolling with advantage or disadvantage (i.e. rolling twice and taking the best or worst respectively) AND have target numbers that vary with the situation. It's clear that a number of designers are including advantage and disadvantage because that's the hipcoolneatoradwhatever thing to do. When a game already has variable target numbers, there is almost no good reason to also include advantage/disadvantage. One notable exception is games which allow the PLAYERS to be the ones creating advantage/disadvantage after the difficulty has already been set. In this case, it's a tactical tool given to the players and that can be quite fun.
Anyhoo, hope that speech from my soapbox helps you out! ;-D
@@kevinnunn2653 it actually does help, thank you.
I also would not like a system with roll over and under… that seems dumb.
I also dislike the arbitrary advantage/disadvantage system, but I do like that the mechanic when it compliments the story.
Have you found a game system that satisfies your mechanical preferences?
Do you have a favorite system?
People play RPGs for different reasons. Very different reasons. Sometimes people play the game and say it is broken but the real problem is that the player(s) are attempting to play the game for reasons it doesn't support. For example, if you and your group are really into the combat simulation part of the game then games that hand wave that stuff or abstract it a lot aren't going to work for you. The game isn't necessarily broken. It just isn't made to do what you want. It's like trying to paint your bedroom with a hammer. You can do it but the process is going to suck and the end result is probably going to be less than ideal.
My suggestion is to sit down and think about what makes playing fun for you. What bit of the actual play really engages you? Once you have that information, it's a lot easier to find a game that fits what you want to do.
@@AndrewCooperSooperGenius that’s very helpful advice. I think you’re correct- my son is very combat focused and he plays the game as a total murder hobo because the system is very focused on making players powerful.
It’s not totally fair to call the game broken, you’re right - it was much more that the game was broken for our needs.
@@AndrewCooperSooperGenius would you mind telling me “what part of the actual play engages you?” I’m curious to hear your thoughts
@@FamilyTableTop Sure. This is from the GM perspective. I rarely actually play a game. I almost always run them as the GM. I like watching and responding to my players engaging with the fictional world and making decisions about what to do and where to go. In other words I'm really into the exploration side of things where the players are moving and discovering new places, people, lore, and whatnot.
That means that I'm generally fine with a system that abstracts combat quite a bit. I don't typically want combats to last a long time unless they are climactic battles. I prefer lower power level games where the PCs might be heroes but don't have super heroic powers. Because I'm trying to react to player decisions in game rather than plan some storyline, I need a game that allows me to create NPCs and monsters on the fly with minimal effort. Games with lots of tools for creating content on the fly are also very helpful. From this you can see what kinds of games I'm going to gravitate towards.
Just to remove any ambiguity, I recently sent out a Pitch Document with 6 different campaigns I'd be excited to run to my group. I'm letting them rank order those campaigns and I'm going to run the one that gets the best votes. Those campaigns include the following systems: Forbidden Lands, OSE, D&D 3.5e, and Open D6: Space. D&D 3.5e is kind of an outlier there but it does scratch a certain itch.
@@AndrewCooperSooperGenius would you mind talking about the campaigns - you said there were 6? What are they?
@@FamilyTableTop I'm happy to send you my Pitch Document, if you want. Just PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.
You can never do enuff surgery to repair a bad game. You got slimed for saying it about 5e and going SD, but after 30 years. No
😊
I only run
Games I Love running now it's my Ultra Weird SD Goblin Game Because it's all fun for me as DM from prep down even if I cheat and steal spells etc from Oldhammer, And 3rd Party Supplements.
@@satori2890 can you tell me more about your weird SD Goblin Game?
I think you realized something quickly that it took me years for me realize. That is that 5E DND IS a tactical wargame with a RPG painting on top of it. And watching your videos, it seems like you have a severe case of FOMO when it comes to TTRPGs. Go slowly. Explore the game and decide if it's for your family. If not, go to the next. Your family or you might get bored and come back later to a game, but think more about the game you are playing now instead of what MIGHT be a game you like in the future.
That’s really fair - I do tend to move from system to system… it’s quite FOMO in the way people think - I’m not trying to get in on something that other people are enjoying and afraid I’ll miss out…
It’s different FOMO - my son Riker is mentally disabled and I have not found a game that he can play. We started with simple board games and then physical games, eventually I started trying simple miniature wargames. He has such a hard time learning things and harder time focusing on multi step play - I generally can tell right away if he’d be able to play a game.
Sometimes I’m trying or find a game for my older son and I to play - other times I secretly hoping that Riker could learn the system.
Does that make sense?