Appreciate you wanting to chat about something you’re interested in. I’d like 1 rule fixed that pushs competitive players into one direction for army building. Pumped up characters on Dragon or big Monsters being able to challenge champions or characters in infantry units. Fix that & we’d see less herohammer, line hammer & a weird game that looks like AoS with squares. An extra rank too. I’d like the game to play and look like it does on the box before releasing new stuff.
I couldn’t disagree with any of that, I’d love to see all that addressed, and some of it would be very simple. There’s been rumours of some kind of competitive/matched play book for a while, I wonder if that could do a job to change up the way armies and played and fielded on the table. There’s already a book like this for MESBG, and maybe adding a few more scenarios, ‘matched play recommendations’ (that are actually closer to some rule changes - like limit max width to 10 etc), could go a long way to resolving those things. Those changes would trickle down to casual club play anyway, so they could make subtle but big changes to the game without hefty FAQs of the main rules.
I've been struggling to get any of my gaming group (40k dominated in Vancouver BC Canada) to try the game..got one buddy to give it a go and he said it wasn't for him. I'm still very keen though and have not stopped basing and building my two little armies (dwarves and lizardmen). I want to have two armies so I can run introductory games for friends. Still excited overall!
That's a shame dude, through sheer enthusiasm I managed to get my whole 40k game group to switch to TOW for the past 6 months. Hope you can make it happen!
That’s really though when your group doesn’t quite match your own gaming plans, hopefully you have other groups close enough to maybe travel to, even if just for events?
I’d be over the moon for a Dogs of War rerelease/refresh. After the Tomb Kings they were what I was most drawn to before the end times. Tilea calls to me.
@@MiniatureRealms I would rather see a necromancer-based undead army. While the von Carsteins are currently dormant, isn't this the time of Dieter Helsnicht?
That’s a pretty cool idea. However I think many people would still want vamps of some flavour, though your idea could make an excellent army of infamy.
The core sprue used for the Tomb Kings was the original Vampire Counts Skeletons, the Command models were made using metal parts added to that sprue's part.
I don't think this should get a 2nd edition for at least a 5 year period is up, once the current books and armies are released they should release a campaign book that features the remaining Old World based armies, then move to Lustria and its neighbors. Then perhaps release a 2nd edition core book that doesn't invalid the army books and refocus the game to the Eastern parts of the world and bring in Chaos Dwarves and those surrounding countries that have never been explored properly.
I agree, I’d like to see the game expanded with an edition change, just aware that’s sometimes how it happens. So much room for bringing in more factions before that’s needed.
Very exciting times indeed. Arcane journals add so much variety for what really is such little effort from GW to produce and make available. which is great for us, innit. I havent been so jazzed about warhammer since the middle of 7th edition!
Ooooh... Campaign supplement... Dwarf vs Orcs&Goblins... subterranean warfare. Release a cavern terrain set like Kill Team - Into the Dark! Could be a skirmish or low point version of the game, like Boarding Actions.
I couldn't keep up with the rollercoaster of rules changes and new codexes in 40K, so the slower pace of Old World has been a welcome change of pace 😂. I really hope they expand it past the initial races and arcane journals though. Campaign books and more armies would be great!
I’m with you on the more sedate pace, once all the main factions are out I’d really be very happy with a handful of models and a couple campaign supplements a year.
While I’d love to see the “Renegade” factions reincorporated into TOW, I think Kislev and Cathay are the most likely. I kind of feel like a campaign supplement for the current setting may be on the horizon, even before the expansion factions are released.
A dogs of war expansion would be great, yet my biggest Christmas wish would be for a new dungeon crawler along the lines of Advanced Heroquest were you can use dogs of war mercenaries and a conversion system to use your characters in old world battles.
I feel that the legacy factions getting a proper launch are an inevitability, but obviously it will take time. The current progression of events is pointing towards the Great War Against Chaos, which means Daemons will be absolutely necessary. The invasion of Ulthuan culminating in the Battle of Finuval Plain also takes place around that time, so that means Dark Elves. Even the Skaven will be concluding their civil war around 2302 I.C., so they'll be able to skulk about the surface once more. Given the success of the game, and GW's own words about "grand plans", I have a good feeling about the future.
I think they could add a specific Cathay army, and possibly expand on the nine that already exist. They all have sub-cultures such as the existing Night Goblins sub culture of the Goblins.
Looking forward to seeing whatever comes in the future! Cathay and Dark Elves are my guesses for this edition, the Daughter's of Khaine seem to be moving away from the Dark Elf range - so we could definately see them un-entangled from the AoS profit/loss sheet...
@themidnightaristocrat Yeah pretty much, and cauldron of blood etc. I wonder if that was a planned AOS release that got put back, which caused the knock on effect of no DA in TOW. I could be way off though. Anyway, fingers crossed for an AOS glow up for Daughters of Khaine.
Id expect a campaign book to finally release. They stated they wanted to do so ething border princes earlier on. Would love to see dogs of war. And would make sense for border princes. The dogs of war had such character and amazing units they could play with.
I think we might expect Vampire Counts and Dark Elves to get back, sooner rather than later and I expect demons as well, although Specialist Games may be forced to use demons of the ruinstorm. This is because the “good” factions already outnumber the evil ones 5 to 4 so there will be a need for them to be introduced to just balance Kislev and Cathay. Besides DE and demons are integral to the events of the Great War against chaos and vampires have always been a popular army.
Yep some good shouts there, especially the rainstorm models, I hadn’t considered those. I hope though that by the time we get to the Great War much of the old fantasy ranges will have been ‘released from AOS’. I still think Dark Elves were a reasonably late pull from TOW, that’s why we have unbalanced factions. The last paragraph on page 4 of the main rulebook, part of the introduction, Dark elves are mentioned. They are the only legacy army mentioned in that introduction. I think it’s the kits from the Daughters of Khaine faction in AOS that stopped it.
It would make sense for legacy armies to come next since they’re more core to the identity of Fantasy imo, but I reckon we’ll see campaign books after all the journals, with a new model or two for the 9 main factions (perhaps some named heroes? Not sure). Sadly I think legacy armies are a long way off, given studio split shenanigans - if the rumours about refreshed dark elves in AoS are true then perhaps the current ones will be brought back for TOW…
I agree with all this. Would be lovely to see the legacy factions back, but there are a few hurdles until there’s enough of the ready to bring them back. Skaven are probably there now, Dark Elves might be when Daughters of Khaine get the update treatment. I guess it possible we could see them introduced slowly with campaign books, maybe Cathay + a legacy faction etc.
As someone who buys AOS minis for the old world and plays bloodbowl, necromunda and the old world, I hope it trundles along like necromunda and blood bowl. I do think we need an old world box set (like IOB or BFSP) to help get some new players on board. 500-700 points each side, basic dice, templates and paperback rules. The game is popular enough to intrest ppl but doesn't have a good on ramp for people unwilling to fully commit. PS I understand why they didn't want an on ramp (they didn't want old world to rival AOS for player numbers, sales or whatever) but I'd question their business decision making. People who don't play AOS now don't play AOS because they don't want to. The existence of old world isn't likley to be a reason for not playing AOS.
I like the suggestions you have put out. Would love to see a book for armies of infamy with another army for each faction. It would probably need more content to it to get everyone to buy. Maybe a Compendium for a year like we used to get?
I’d really love to see legacy factions return for good army some point. The Old World without Skaven or Vampires just doesn’t sit right with me 😁 And bring back the Druchii 😍 I think a second edition would be far too early. Even with games like 40k which I think paint themselves a little faster, I can’t possibly keep up with the pace of new editions and models.
SDS seem to be on a roughly 6-year edition cycle (ish) if one looks at MESBG and HH. I think that's reasonable. Your man here seems yo be OK with half that...can't say many others would be. I'm luke warm on ToW - I probably prefer 6th edition, but I think that's less to do with the game and more to do with the very loud subsection of the community that are power-gaming chodes. Again something that seems to be in a more positive light in this video as he keeps talking about 'switching up the meta' and 'matched play'. ToW is a game that is pretty easy to break, rather like HH2.0, but does not seem to be written with competitive gaming in mind (again, like HH2.0). I'd rather see much more narrative stuff come out and have the tournament tossers go back to ruining 40k.
@@blastvader Regarding the way I like to play, we’re on the same page entirely. I didn’t have many games so far, but I feel the community is teeming with tryhards.
@blastvader I prefer narrative games myself, just talking about the game as a whole, as people like to play in many ways. Calling out those who don’t play the way you like to says more about you than them though.
The Nova Open preview should give us a good idea what is up for TOW - they mentioned road maps prominently. This COULD mean a definite release schedule for the remaining core factions AND at least one expansion book. This time next week we almost know already.
I hope they finally explore the other part of the Warhammer world, not just Cathay and Kisley, but also Ind, Kuresh Nippon and Araby. And why not even go further and add new faction based on un-explored culture, and even not a full army, just an army of infamy based on said culture. Like an Araby army based on western Africa. And if they do that, hopefully it will not be just human.
I'm going to commit heresy and say that I dont think we're ever getting the legacy armies back. Not because they dont deserve it, but because GW doesn't want to compete with themselves. That being said, there are other armies we can bring in. The vampire pirates, new Dogs of War, Cathay and more. My prediction is we'll get new armies here and there, and each edition will see a refresh for the legacy factions. The only thing that might change this would be if AoS begins to seriously falter.
I think there’s a chance you’re correct, I can certainly see a situation where we don’t get them all back. I think we may well get new ones first though, and like you said potentially touch on older factions via new means.
i quite liked the idea of just having a small game i knew i could easily buy all the books for and collect either a grand army or just a small list for each and play the game. not have too worry about new editions, FAQ's new releases and eventually a new edition. thats what drew me in, as a casual i wouldnt continue after the arcane journals.
Campaign books make a lot of sense and could contain a number of different armies within perhaps even versions for current legacy armies You would think that the legacy armies are low hanging fruit for more factions but it would be cool to see a new faction come out. Whatever new faction came out would sell out immediately. It would also bring new players to the game I feel Long term would love to see legacy factions become core but time will tell. Obviously GW has said TOW did better than planned but that could also be on the back of low expectations (we don’t truly know). I’m really impressed with the overall speed of release so far. A huge amount of production and resourcing has clearly been made available for it regardless of the stock issues faced periodically. I’m hoping the game doesn’t get a regular new edition all the time. Not sure how easy it would be for them just to roll the FAQ into the existing book as an edit and just have newer versions of the book for sale…perhaps as you say a version 1.5
Yeah I agree, I hope they don’t rush into a new edition, the game certainly doesn’t have glaring issues that need to be resolved. Some of the issues around the way the game plays is more from a competitive or matched play point of view, and they might be able to really mix that up with a Matched Play guide like they made for MESBG.
Objective markers were mentioned in the Dwarf Arcane Journal I think, and they don't feature in the Core rules, so that's a good sign that there are some things in the pipeline!
There’s been a rumour of some kind of competitive play book, could well be that. MESBG has a Matched Play Guide, game with extra scenarios and guidelines for running events. This would be great I think, they could potentially address some things to balance if they wanted to go that far as well. Maybe a mix of the Matched Play Guide & AOS Generals Handbook.
They could use it to have quite a big effect on the way the game plays. Add in a few competitive scenarios, especially ones that encourage some more infantry in army building. Add other ‘recommended changes to core rules for competitive/marched play’ , like limiting number of models in a rank to 10. Little things like that could solve a few emerging issues that stop the game looking like Warhammer, and do it without the need to change the core rulebook. Anyone playing at events or clubs will likely adopt it, and the narrative/open play gamers won’t be affected because they were just playing the way they wanted anyway.
I guess a campaign supplement or two with the odd special character is realistic in the foreseeable future + they include the legacy faction for balance updates. Even if they realized that there is a larger demand for ToW than they expected initially and are prepared to increase the resources for this project - they have to hire new talent and plan accordingly. I’m pretty sure a company of the size of GW will at least have everything roughly planned for one year ahead. I suppose the easiest thing would be to release more really old models for made-to-order / add some new resin ones for existing options. That’s something that doesn’t affect the future development of the game and the metal / resin production line is pretty much separate from the other production lines.
Yep I think the initial plans they have/had will pretty much stay the same, a change in scope will definitely be further down the line. They plan quite a few years ahead, so I’d imagine they’ve be working on stuff now for 2/3+ years ahead.
Next week is nova. Hopefully we'll see the "new scope" for the project. The peoblem with the game will be sustaining it. I think the current szenario system could be the right way to do so. Release a campaign book these are the Dramatis personae aka new characters. New list options maybe even new units and several missions. Hopefully we get all the old factions back. My poor dark elves.
Will be very interesting to see what they say at Nova, could just be the next faction after WoC teased, but I have a feeling it will be something more, either a roadmap, or even the first supplement that’s been rumoured (some kind of competitive play/matched play guide).
I would like to see something like Storm of Chaos in the future. This is because it gives players different paths and outcomes, depends upon their victories or losses in their campaigns.
Can someone explain to me why are allies forbidden on tournament scenes? Bretonnia is the only factions of good force which can be fielded by everyone, and yet nobody allows allies. I reckon tow is ment to be played by mixing alliances opposed to AoS single race game in which its armies are more thematic than old world. I would like for GW to expand on allies rule, make it more fun (0-1 per 1000pts choice options is around 70% of every army). Make it more fun Also have scoring objectives as in Ninth Age - this will bring back infantry and more epic rnf struggles.
I’d like to see both of those things, perhaps if we see the rumoured matched play book from GW for ToW (the middle earth one is great), then they may touch on those subjects and events will follow.
I’d love campaign books. I suspect that entirely new armies might be a different proposition - doing Cathay properly feels like it’s enough for a book! But I could imagine you have a lovely model where you get some cool scenarios, a couple of named characters, a couple of new armies of infamy and maybe some returning kits missed on the first wave - eg a forest goblin and savage orc army of infamy that brings back the models just dropped from the AoS range.
I’ve heard two rumours, one with them next (after WoC), but the other with Empire next and High Elves after that. I think Elves next would make sense for faction balance, but money’s on Empire, I think it’s too core to the feel and lore of the whole game to held off much longer.
I am hopeful that they do new big box releases like they did with the Brets and Tomb Kings ... it helped me get back into those armies which have long since left my collection. A bit of ebay here and there and I have my old armies back at a price I was willing to pay. I am hopeful we get some of the old secondary rules, things like siege rules, etc. more fleshed out with their own rules and releases, I love the reintroduction of terrain!! I'm excited to see empire releases and a return of older models. My only negative is really, I'm very frustrated with GWs constant FOMO manipulation with stocks though. When you just can't get things at any price, it is off putting, and for me it makes me really consider 3d printing before purchasing the models from GW. I wish they'd re-think their standard 40k/AoS approach with The Old World. They are not like for like product lines, and customer bases. Anyway I really like your content thank you so much sir!!
Is the Old World doing well financially? I would rather not care about that but thats the world we live in, if its doing well then the future is ofc bright.
I think the future of the game is one in which I don’t have any money left 😂 but also I hope the pace of release is not too slow or fast and they just strike a good balance and hopefully wait a few years for a second edition
I think it will keep sailing back into the future until it's simply called "Warhammer" again . Remember those days? This was the "Old World" before the Storm of Chaos Campaign. It was just called Warhammer 🤣. I'd really like to see GW do some new Norse stuff though, particularly highlighting a tribe or 2 that have not embraced or even detest Chaos. More Hero Quest/Conan and classical Norse myth, perhaps with a high affinity for Dwarfs and their runes, as may be more prevalent in the new timeline. I've been really enjoying the "Tribes of the North" Mod for Total War. These guys went all out, let me tell you. The reason I am so optimistic is because of the overall "Old World" community.
Given how long it takes GW to make new minis and books, it will take a good couple of years for the legacy factions to be ready for release since they weren't in the revised plan for the game. I expect they will stick with campaign books and hopefully Cathay or Kislev, at least in the next year.
Would absolutely love some campaign books... have dug out my old ones time for mcdeath, kemmler, Drong or some Empire in the bad lands mixing it up with orcs... some tinkering may be necessary....
@@MiniatureRealms well they already did that with Ogre Kingdoms, they are legacy but can be used as mercenaries for Arcane Journal: Orc & Goblin Tribes, p. 40
It obviously won't happen this way, but in a perfect world, after the ninth Arcane Journal we would get a third army list book with four of the legacy factions and Kislev. In the next year, we would get all the Arcane Journals and all the miniatures for those factions, then a fourth book with the remaining three legacy factions, Dogs of War and Cathay. After that... I could imagine a fifth book with new or semi-new factions like Araby, the Amazons, the Sea Elves and the Zombie Pirates of the Vampire Coast... but at this point I seems to be delusional even in this utopistic scenario. :D
This will be dead again in 3 years. They had opportunity to make an a game that was accessible to new players and failed. They have essentially repeated the mistakes of the past.
Eh, yes stuff sells out when they supply FEW of it - many stores reported literally less than 10 boxes of each line. Already I see a LOT of Warhammer Old World on sale, which means it's not selling. And that was before the 10% price hike. Old World was dead on arrival because of the price and failure to capitalise on Warhammer Total War's expectant audience. Oh, and the absurdly pointlessly complex rules. It was not affordable on release, and it's exactly 10% more unaffordable now. Yes, the recent 2nd wave of dwarves has seen a slight price decrease but how long will that last do you think lol.
Appreciate you wanting to chat about something you’re interested in.
I’d like 1 rule fixed that pushs competitive players into one direction for army building. Pumped up characters on Dragon or big Monsters being able to challenge champions or characters in infantry units. Fix that & we’d see less herohammer, line hammer & a weird game that looks like AoS with squares. An extra rank too.
I’d like the game to play and look like it does on the box before releasing new stuff.
I couldn’t disagree with any of that, I’d love to see all that addressed, and some of it would be very simple.
There’s been rumours of some kind of competitive/matched play book for a while, I wonder if that could do a job to change up the way armies and played and fielded on the table. There’s already a book like this for MESBG, and maybe adding a few more scenarios, ‘matched play recommendations’ (that are actually closer to some rule changes - like limit max width to 10 etc), could go a long way to resolving those things. Those changes would trickle down to casual club play anyway, so they could make subtle but big changes to the game without hefty FAQs of the main rules.
I've been struggling to get any of my gaming group (40k dominated in Vancouver BC Canada) to try the game..got one buddy to give it a go and he said it wasn't for him. I'm still very keen though and have not stopped basing and building my two little armies (dwarves and lizardmen). I want to have two armies so I can run introductory games for friends. Still excited overall!
That's a shame dude, through sheer enthusiasm I managed to get my whole 40k game group to switch to TOW for the past 6 months. Hope you can make it happen!
That’s really though when your group doesn’t quite match your own gaming plans, hopefully you have other groups close enough to maybe travel to, even if just for events?
I would LOVE to see Dark Elves, Lizards and Blah, blah, ekhem The vampire Counts back in fantasy!
Me too, I’m sure of the game goes well they will be back in a few years.
Loving the return of Warhammer Fantasy! Seems to have a lot of momentum!
Definitely feels in a very good pace compared to a few weeks ago.
I’d be over the moon for a Dogs of War rerelease/refresh. After the Tomb Kings they were what I was most drawn to before the end times. Tilea calls to me.
It would be amazing wouldn’t it.
First and foremost I’d love to see the “legacy” armies incorporated into the game proper, Arcane Journals and all. Would be awesome!
Yes that would be awesome, fingers crossed.
So many people still love the legacy armies. GW would be silly not to include them all eventually.
Keep hearing rumors about Vampire Counts returning. Makes some sense since they have a lot of older miniatures not being used by AoS.
I hope so, the more AOS sees new models replacing the old fantasy ranges, the more chance we have of seeing them back on square bases I guess.
@@MiniatureRealms I would rather see a necromancer-based undead army. While the von Carsteins are currently dormant, isn't this the time of Dieter Helsnicht?
That’s a pretty cool idea. However I think many people would still want vamps of some flavour, though your idea could make an excellent army of infamy.
The core sprue used for the Tomb Kings was the original Vampire Counts Skeletons, the Command models were made using metal parts added to that sprue's part.
I don't think this should get a 2nd edition for at least a 5 year period is up, once the current books and armies are released they should release a campaign book that features the remaining Old World based armies, then move to Lustria and its neighbors.
Then perhaps release a 2nd edition core book that doesn't invalid the army books and refocus the game to the Eastern parts of the world and bring in Chaos Dwarves and those surrounding countries that have never been explored properly.
I agree, I’d like to see the game expanded with an edition change, just aware that’s sometimes how it happens. So much room for bringing in more factions before that’s needed.
Very exciting times indeed.
Arcane journals add so much variety for what really is such little effort from GW to produce and make available. which is great for us, innit.
I havent been so jazzed about warhammer since the middle of 7th edition!
I really enjoyed middle of 7th, maybe not playing against Demons and Dark Elves so much though 😂
I want everything!
Hoping for a second edition featuring Lustria: Lizzies, Skaven, VC’s, DE’s & Demons 😊
That would be very cool
Ooooh... Campaign supplement... Dwarf vs Orcs&Goblins... subterranean warfare. Release a cavern terrain set like Kill Team - Into the Dark! Could be a skirmish or low point version of the game, like Boarding Actions.
That would be fun.
I couldn't keep up with the rollercoaster of rules changes and new codexes in 40K, so the slower pace of Old World has been a welcome change of pace 😂. I really hope they expand it past the initial races and arcane journals though. Campaign books and more armies would be great!
I’m with you on the more sedate pace, once all the main factions are out I’d really be very happy with a handful of models and a couple campaign supplements a year.
While I’d love to see the “Renegade” factions reincorporated into TOW, I think Kislev and Cathay are the most likely. I kind of feel like a campaign supplement for the current setting may be on the horizon, even before the expansion factions are released.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you’re right there.
A dogs of war expansion would be great, yet my biggest Christmas wish would be for a new dungeon crawler along the lines of Advanced Heroquest were you can use dogs of war mercenaries and a conversion system to use your characters in old world battles.
That would be very cool, I’d love to see Warhammer Quest return to the Old World.
I feel that the legacy factions getting a proper launch are an inevitability, but obviously it will take time. The current progression of events is pointing towards the Great War Against Chaos, which means Daemons will be absolutely necessary. The invasion of Ulthuan culminating in the Battle of Finuval Plain also takes place around that time, so that means Dark Elves. Even the Skaven will be concluding their civil war around 2302 I.C., so they'll be able to skulk about the surface once more.
Given the success of the game, and GW's own words about "grand plans", I have a good feeling about the future.
Yep couldn’t agree more, all the roads lead towards this in a few years time, be that a second (or even third edition) time will tell.
I think they could add a specific Cathay army, and possibly expand on the nine that already exist. They all have sub-cultures such as the existing Night Goblins sub culture of the Goblins.
Yep there’s definitely plenty of design space to expand existing factions further.
Looking forward to seeing whatever comes in the future! Cathay and Dark Elves are my guesses for this edition, the Daughter's of Khaine seem to be moving away from the Dark Elf range - so we could definately see them un-entangled from the AoS profit/loss sheet...
Hoping this is true.
That would be most excellent!
All they would need to do is make a new Witch Elves kit for AoS and Old World can have the others back
@themidnightaristocrat Yeah pretty much, and cauldron of blood etc. I wonder if that was a planned AOS release that got put back, which caused the knock on effect of no DA in TOW. I could be way off though.
Anyway, fingers crossed for an AOS glow up for Daughters of Khaine.
Waiting on the Empire! But I would definitely buy a Cathay army!
Empire will be my next ‘expensive’ one I think 😅
Id expect a campaign book to finally release. They stated they wanted to do so ething border princes earlier on. Would love to see dogs of war. And would make sense for border princes. The dogs of war had such character and amazing units they could play with.
A Border Princes campaign book would be most excellent
@@MiniatureRealms yep, could use blood in the badlands / mighty empires as a base.
I think we might expect Vampire Counts and Dark Elves to get back, sooner rather than later and I expect demons as well, although Specialist Games may be forced to use demons of the ruinstorm. This is because the “good” factions already outnumber the evil ones 5 to 4 so there will be a need for them to be introduced to just balance Kislev and Cathay. Besides DE and demons are integral to the events of the Great War against chaos and vampires have always been a popular army.
Yep some good shouts there, especially the rainstorm models, I hadn’t considered those. I hope though that by the time we get to the Great War much of the old fantasy ranges will have been ‘released from AOS’.
I still think Dark Elves were a reasonably late pull from TOW, that’s why we have unbalanced factions. The last paragraph on page 4 of the main rulebook, part of the introduction, Dark elves are mentioned. They are the only legacy army mentioned in that introduction. I think it’s the kits from the Daughters of Khaine faction in AOS that stopped it.
It would make sense for legacy armies to come next since they’re more core to the identity of Fantasy imo, but I reckon we’ll see campaign books after all the journals, with a new model or two for the 9 main factions (perhaps some named heroes? Not sure).
Sadly I think legacy armies are a long way off, given studio split shenanigans - if the rumours about refreshed dark elves in AoS are true then perhaps the current ones will be brought back for TOW…
I agree with all this. Would be lovely to see the legacy factions back, but there are a few hurdles until there’s enough of the ready to bring them back. Skaven are probably there now, Dark Elves might be when Daughters of Khaine get the update treatment.
I guess it possible we could see them introduced slowly with campaign books, maybe Cathay + a legacy faction etc.
As someone who buys AOS minis for the old world and plays bloodbowl, necromunda and the old world, I hope it trundles along like necromunda and blood bowl.
I do think we need an old world box set (like IOB or BFSP) to help get some new players on board. 500-700 points each side, basic dice, templates and paperback rules. The game is popular enough to intrest ppl but doesn't have a good on ramp for people unwilling to fully commit.
PS I understand why they didn't want an on ramp (they didn't want old world to rival AOS for player numbers, sales or whatever) but I'd question their business decision making. People who don't play AOS now don't play AOS because they don't want to. The existence of old world isn't likley to be a reason for not playing AOS.
Once the game is well on its way (at least the 9 factions) I’d be very happy for a pretty slow release schedule.
I like the suggestions you have put out. Would love to see a book for armies of infamy with another army for each faction. It would probably need more content to it to get everyone to buy. Maybe a Compendium for a year like we used to get?
Both really nice ideas, like them.
Dogs of War miniatures return would be superb
With some of the classics they’ve brought back it wouldn’t surprise me (if they still have the masters/moulds).
I’d really love to see legacy factions return for good army some point. The Old World without Skaven or Vampires just doesn’t sit right with me 😁 And bring back the Druchii 😍
I think a second edition would be far too early. Even with games like 40k which I think paint themselves a little faster, I can’t possibly keep up with the pace of new editions and models.
I think those three armies would be the ones I’d list as most important too, really hope they come back.
SDS seem to be on a roughly 6-year edition cycle (ish) if one looks at MESBG and HH. I think that's reasonable. Your man here seems yo be OK with half that...can't say many others would be.
I'm luke warm on ToW - I probably prefer 6th edition, but I think that's less to do with the game and more to do with the very loud subsection of the community that are power-gaming chodes. Again something that seems to be in a more positive light in this video as he keeps talking about 'switching up the meta' and 'matched play'. ToW is a game that is pretty easy to break, rather like HH2.0, but does not seem to be written with competitive gaming in mind (again, like HH2.0). I'd rather see much more narrative stuff come out and have the tournament tossers go back to ruining 40k.
@@blastvader Regarding the way I like to play, we’re on the same page entirely. I didn’t have many games so far, but I feel the community is teeming with tryhards.
@blastvader I prefer narrative games myself, just talking about the game as a whole, as people like to play in many ways. Calling out those who don’t play the way you like to says more about you than them though.
If we’re fixing to get to the Siege of Prague, Cathay will definitely be released with a big campaign book!
I hope so
I hope more novels are coming, that would be cool
I really hope so too
The Nova Open preview should give us a good idea what is up for TOW - they mentioned road maps prominently. This COULD mean a definite release schedule for the remaining core factions AND at least one expansion book. This time next week we almost know already.
I’d love to see a roadmap, would be very exciting (and help planning no end).
I hope they finally explore the other part of the Warhammer world, not just Cathay and Kisley, but also Ind, Kuresh Nippon and Araby.
And why not even go further and add new faction based on un-explored culture, and even not a full army, just an army of infamy based on said culture.
Like an Araby army based on western Africa.
And if they do that, hopefully it will not be just human.
That would be very cool
Definitely excited for the future. Campaign books certainly seem a safe bet - here’s hoping for new factions with them!
I hope so 🤞
I'm going to commit heresy and say that I dont think we're ever getting the legacy armies back. Not because they dont deserve it, but because GW doesn't want to compete with themselves.
That being said, there are other armies we can bring in. The vampire pirates, new Dogs of War, Cathay and more.
My prediction is we'll get new armies here and there, and each edition will see a refresh for the legacy factions. The only thing that might change this would be if AoS begins to seriously falter.
I think there’s a chance you’re correct, I can certainly see a situation where we don’t get them all back. I think we may well get new ones first though, and like you said potentially touch on older factions via new means.
i quite liked the idea of just having a small game i knew i could easily buy all the books for and collect either a grand army or just a small list for each and play the game. not have too worry about new editions, FAQ's new releases and eventually a new edition. thats what drew me in, as a casual i wouldnt continue after the arcane journals.
That’s fair enough, and I guess after the arcane journals there’s a near jump off point for casual players.
@@MiniatureRealms i would likely still buy some of the miniatures, either just becuase i like them or they would go nicely into a mordhiem warband.
Campaign books make a lot of sense and could contain a number of different armies within perhaps even versions for current legacy armies
You would think that the legacy armies are low hanging fruit for more factions but it would be cool to see a new faction come out. Whatever new faction came out would sell out immediately. It would also bring new players to the game I feel
Long term would love to see legacy factions become core but time will tell. Obviously GW has said TOW did better than planned but that could also be on the back of low expectations (we don’t truly know).
I’m really impressed with the overall speed of release so far. A huge amount of production and resourcing has clearly been made available for it regardless of the stock issues faced periodically.
I’m hoping the game doesn’t get a regular new edition all the time. Not sure how easy it would be for them just to roll the FAQ into the existing book as an edit and just have newer versions of the book for sale…perhaps as you say a version 1.5
Yeah I agree, I hope they don’t rush into a new edition, the game certainly doesn’t have glaring issues that need to be resolved. Some of the issues around the way the game plays is more from a competitive or matched play point of view, and they might be able to really mix that up with a Matched Play guide like they made for MESBG.
Objective markers were mentioned in the Dwarf Arcane Journal I think, and they don't feature in the Core rules, so that's a good sign that there are some things in the pipeline!
There’s been a rumour of some kind of competitive play book, could well be that. MESBG has a Matched Play Guide, game with extra scenarios and guidelines for running events. This would be great I think, they could potentially address some things to balance if they wanted to go that far as well. Maybe a mix of the Matched Play Guide & AOS Generals Handbook.
@@MiniatureRealms The MESBG matched play guide is a good thing to emulate. Good call.
They could use it to have quite a big effect on the way the game plays. Add in a few competitive scenarios, especially ones that encourage some more infantry in army building. Add other ‘recommended changes to core rules for competitive/marched play’ , like limiting number of models in a rank to 10. Little things like that could solve a few emerging issues that stop the game looking like Warhammer, and do it without the need to change the core rulebook. Anyone playing at events or clubs will likely adopt it, and the narrative/open play gamers won’t be affected because they were just playing the way they wanted anyway.
@@MiniatureRealms I agree 100%.
I guess a campaign supplement or two with the odd special character is realistic in the foreseeable future + they include the legacy faction for balance updates. Even if they realized that there is a larger demand for ToW than they expected initially and are prepared to increase the resources for this project - they have to hire new talent and plan accordingly. I’m pretty sure a company of the size of GW will at least have everything roughly planned for one year ahead. I suppose the easiest thing would be to release more really old models for made-to-order / add some new resin ones for existing options. That’s something that doesn’t affect the future development of the game and the metal / resin production line is pretty much separate from the other production lines.
Yep I think the initial plans they have/had will pretty much stay the same, a change in scope will definitely be further down the line. They plan quite a few years ahead, so I’d imagine they’ve be working on stuff now for 2/3+ years ahead.
Next week is nova. Hopefully we'll see the "new scope" for the project.
The peoblem with the game will be sustaining it. I think the current szenario system could be the right way to do so.
Release a campaign book these are the Dramatis personae aka new characters.
New list options maybe even new units and several missions.
Hopefully we get all the old factions back. My poor dark elves.
Will be very interesting to see what they say at Nova, could just be the next faction after WoC teased, but I have a feeling it will be something more, either a roadmap, or even the first supplement that’s been rumoured (some kind of competitive play/matched play guide).
I would like to see something like Storm of Chaos in the future. This is because it gives players different paths and outcomes, depends upon their victories or losses in their campaigns.
That would be perfect, I hope this doesn’t this with the Great War against chaos.
Can someone explain to me why are allies forbidden on tournament scenes? Bretonnia is the only factions of good force which can be fielded by everyone, and yet nobody allows allies. I reckon tow is ment to be played by mixing alliances opposed to AoS single race game in which its armies are more thematic than old world.
I would like for GW to expand on allies rule, make it more fun (0-1 per 1000pts choice options is around 70% of every army). Make it more fun
Also have scoring objectives as in Ninth Age - this will bring back infantry and more epic rnf struggles.
I’d like to see both of those things, perhaps if we see the rumoured matched play book from GW for ToW (the middle earth one is great), then they may touch on those subjects and events will follow.
I’d love campaign books. I suspect that entirely new armies might be a different proposition - doing Cathay properly feels like it’s enough for a book! But I could imagine you have a lovely model where you get some cool scenarios, a couple of named characters, a couple of new armies of infamy and maybe some returning kits missed on the first wave - eg a forest goblin and savage orc army of infamy that brings back the models just dropped from the AoS range.
Yeah they might have to introduce new armies as part of a campaign supplement, can’t wait to find out (if they actually do it).
I'm absolutely desperate for Dogs of War to return.
I really hope we get some fun way of achieving this, even if it’s a pdf list just combining all the Mercenary/DoW units from the Arcane Journals.
Haven't learnt to play this edition yet.😂
Looking forward to seeing the High Elf book.
Heard I would be waiting a good while for that though.
I’ve heard two rumours, one with them next (after WoC), but the other with Empire next and High Elves after that.
I think Elves next would make sense for faction balance, but money’s on Empire, I think it’s too core to the feel and lore of the whole game to held off much longer.
@MiniatureRealms Well I guess we now know after the road map.
I am hopeful that they do new big box releases like they did with the Brets and Tomb Kings ... it helped me get back into those armies which have long since left my collection. A bit of ebay here and there and I have my old armies back at a price I was willing to pay.
I am hopeful we get some of the old secondary rules, things like siege rules, etc. more fleshed out with their own rules and releases, I love the reintroduction of terrain!! I'm excited to see empire releases and a return of older models.
My only negative is really, I'm very frustrated with GWs constant FOMO manipulation with stocks though. When you just can't get things at any price, it is off putting, and for me it makes me really consider 3d printing before purchasing the models from GW. I wish they'd re-think their standard 40k/AoS approach with The Old World. They are not like for like product lines, and customer bases.
Anyway I really like your content thank you so much sir!!
Thank you 😊
I’d love to see a return of siege that would be amazing.
Is the Old World doing well financially?
I would rather not care about that but thats the world we live in, if its doing well then the future is ofc bright.
Yes absolutely, and from what we can tell I think so yes.
I think the future of the game is one in which I don’t have any money left 😂 but also I hope the pace of release is not too slow or fast and they just strike a good balance and hopefully wait a few years for a second edition
😂 I feel you there, and yes I really hope they can advance the game well for a good few years without a second edition.
I predict that in the 2nd edition, we will get the renegade armies come into the main factions, and perhaps some new ones.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Would love to see a Norse vs Kislev campaign
That would be most excellent
I think it will keep sailing back into the future until it's simply called "Warhammer" again . Remember those days? This was the "Old World" before the Storm of Chaos Campaign. It was just called Warhammer 🤣. I'd really like to see GW do some new Norse stuff though, particularly highlighting a tribe or 2 that have not embraced or even detest Chaos. More Hero Quest/Conan and classical Norse myth, perhaps with a high affinity for Dwarfs and their runes, as may be more prevalent in the new timeline. I've been really enjoying the "Tribes of the North" Mod for Total War. These guys went all out, let me tell you. The reason I am so optimistic is because of the overall "Old World" community.
I love the whole Norse theme, I’m really looking forward to seeing what the army of infamy is like in the WoC book.
Given how long it takes GW to make new minis and books, it will take a good couple of years for the legacy factions to be ready for release since they weren't in the revised plan for the game. I expect they will stick with campaign books and hopefully Cathay or Kislev, at least in the next year.
Yeah I agree, even with a revised plan o think they will stick with the current one until it’s done.
Would absolutely love some campaign books... have dug out my old ones time for mcdeath, kemmler, Drong or some Empire in the bad lands mixing it up with orcs... some tinkering may be necessary....
Some absolute classics there, definitely convertible to any edition I’d say.
@@MiniatureRealms that's my hope!
I hope I am wrong. I’ve played since first edition. I just feel they missed the mark on the rules really.
That’s fair enough. There’s a few things I’d make small adjustments to, but overall I really like the rules.
You have such a soothing voice!
A very arousing voice too ❤
😂 ASMR coming soon
... Surely you jest!
@divafever9754 Special Patreon level for ASMR 🤷♂️😂
The legacy units will probably turn up as mercenaries rather than full independent armies
That’s an interesting idea, could certainly be a way to bring some back.
@@MiniatureRealms well they already did that with Ogre Kingdoms, they are legacy but can be used as mercenaries for Arcane Journal: Orc & Goblin Tribes, p. 40
Oh yes for sure, so we may see more yet.
nowhere, they don't want it to go anywhere. This is EXACTLY why the chaos dwarves were stolen from ToW and given to age of sigmarxism.
😂
😊
🙂
It obviously won't happen this way, but in a perfect world, after the ninth Arcane Journal we would get a third army list book with four of the legacy factions and Kislev. In the next year, we would get all the Arcane Journals and all the miniatures for those factions, then a fourth book with the remaining three legacy factions, Dogs of War and Cathay.
After that... I could imagine a fifth book with new or semi-new factions like Araby, the Amazons, the Sea Elves and the Zombie Pirates of the Vampire Coast... but at this point I seems to be delusional even in this utopistic scenario. :D
I really like this idea.
all i want is more halfling cathay, nippon and ind. we already got 1 of those. maybe later ind ;-; i want my ind beastmen want to be cannon
That would definitely be fun.
*The
Good spot thank you, changed 🙂
@@MiniatureRealms All good :D
I want tamurkhan and other campaigns dammit
Tamurkhan was such a great book.
This will be dead again in 3 years. They had opportunity to make an a game that was accessible to new players and failed. They have essentially repeated the mistakes of the past.
I disagree and think you will be wrong, but I can certainly understand why a few people feel like that.
Frankly I don't much care for the commentary videos just the hobby content videos
That’s fair enough, you don’t have to watch these ones if you don’t like them.
Eh, yes stuff sells out when they supply FEW of it - many stores reported literally less than 10 boxes of each line. Already I see a LOT of Warhammer Old World on sale, which means it's not selling. And that was before the 10% price hike.
Old World was dead on arrival because of the price and failure to capitalise on Warhammer Total War's expectant audience. Oh, and the absurdly pointlessly complex rules. It was not affordable on release, and it's exactly 10% more unaffordable now. Yes, the recent 2nd wave of dwarves has seen a slight price decrease but how long will that last do you think lol.
👍
... So nothing confirmed, all speculation. I want my time back!
The title probably gives you a clue to what the topic was 🤷♂️. If I nail time travel I’ll be sure to get in touch with that 11:58 😂