I'm a doctoral physical therapist, and I tell this to all of my chronic pain patients. Some of them get offended because they think I'm suggesting their pain is all in their head. But I say "it's not all in your head! But it is all in your brain. The difference is you're not imagining it; you just have to train your nerves to be less hypersensitive to movement or noxious stimuli."
Sherr, that's not the message of the video at all. Go read Austin's full article on the Barbell Medicine website if you want the full argument and the conclusion you're looking for.
No pain is just your bodies warning system and with practice you can ignore even sharp pain - MMA fighters, Strongman contestants lifting huge weights with torn muscles and so on. Some pain - a back tweak for instance - could be worked through slowly in a short time instead of resting it for weeks.
Hey Alan, I tweaked my back last week, and the first thing I did was watch your previous back pain video for some guidance. I did exactly what you said I stayed calm, put the weights away and kept moving, doing air squats and DLs. I could barely move the next few hours, but kept positive and just kept telling my self it was nothing more than a pulled muscle or ligament. The next 2 days my back was very tight and pain was pretty crazy, but I just kept moving and was as positive as possible, and now 3 days after I’m feeling great already working my training weights back up. Last year, this injury would have taken me out for 6 months and probably would have had my quit power lifting out of fear lol.
Steven Truant literally the same for me bro I was able to train after 5 days after a back tweak, then a little over a month later I hit a 45lb squat pr (495). that's progress I would of never imagined over a year ago
@@Burog1 doing my best by trying to be smart about it , did read alot of stuff and usually people said they got sharp pain during squats or deadlifts , mine was pressure above glute ,hopefully it will start getting better soon , cant wait to squat again with some solid weight
@@kryptonianstrength8461 u better now ? I’m a noob and was deadlifting 405 with questionable form (lower back doing all the work) and a couple days later felt tightness in low back and it’s gone on for a couple weeks. Only on one side and hip feels really tight as well and pain can be triggered when I lie on stomach and stretch left arm out to the right . Pain in lower left abs so I think it’s some kind of back tweak but lost tbh
I had a back tweak like you from deadlifting, really bad it was pretty much exact same situation. I left the gym and came home and watched your video (the first one describing your back tweak) I followed the instructions of that video, and two days later I was able to hit some box squats with working weight! and two days after that I was back to deadlifting normally. So thanks for all of these videos Alan, very useful!
Thanks Alan. This & your other video helped change my perspective from feeling sorry for myself to "it's fine that it hurts". I have a feeling this is going to be invaluable for me moving forward. We lift heavy and force our bodies to adapt to new levels of stress -- and it's easy to forget that the brain is just as involved as the muscles in our training process.
Agree with what you’re saying about benign back “tweaks”. Problem is that few lay people and many clinicians cannot always determine if what someone is having is only a tweak.
I was squatting last week, and heard a slight pop in the lower back right side near pelvis. It was very tight and painful after. Took two days of very light movement in the gym, doing what I could, accepted it for what it was and back to (almost normal) a week later. Part of the reason for doing all this was 100% the narratives I’ve been given from BBM and what I’ve learned about pain and nocebo with movement
I would love to see BarbellMedicine/Untamed Strength have this conversation with Dr. Stuart McGill. I don't think you are really all that different but the approaches are different.
Just took some forced time off for some lower back radiculopathy, but continued to use my reverse hyper for loading. Stepped back under the bar today and immediately retweaked it at low weight -_-
As always, thanks Alan (and Austin) for this video I couldn't agree more. The entire body-mind complex is very well explained through traumatic (lifting) back pain. We (physicians) also call this the gate-control theory (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_control_theory ) Input (nociception) processed through the pathways leading to the brain-center(s) for pain. No matter the amount of stimulus (nociceptive stimulus = the place you hurt yourself), it can be modulated and changed as it reaches the brain (where we feel the actual stimulus). The modulation can be done in several ways: - touching another area / inducing another physical stimulus (that's why, when we hurt ourselves, it helps to stroke the area og another area, as this takes away from the initial nociceptive input - the brain can only process so much) - pain medication - Increase arousal (that's why soldiers in war can run with massive wounds and feel no pain initially - the adrenaline / arousal) - Feeling of control (this is the important one in acute pain, and probably THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE in terms of acute pain turning into chronic pain - a lot of acute back pain becomes chronic pain, because of FEAR (as Alan puts it - it hurts = it must be bad). This starts a cycle of: avoiding -> bad posture / secondary injuries -> even more fear etc) As I posted on the other video, only a few things should scare you about lifting-related / traumatic back pain (the red flags) - and lead to call for 911 / Emergency Department: - sudden lack of control of your anal sphincter / bowel and/or bladder - Feeling of numbness in the saddle area (groin and inner thighs) - motor (= can't lift foot / leg) weakness in one (most common) or both legs If a burning pain radiates down your leg (neural pain, and not just nociceptive pain located to the back area), it's very rarely anything serious, but a check by a doctor would be in order Best wishes Peter PS: neurokirurgi.info/pdf/RygKompendium.pdf (This is danish so sorry about that - On page 7, there is the most important graph on back pain. Biological causes havent increased, but more and more people seek help for backpain (chronic). This is complex, but to a large part has to do with the exact same thing as Alan / Austin are talking about - fear that pain is always bad, starting a vicious cycle) PPS: The pain IS real for the one who feels it (whether or not there is a stimulus, the brain feels it - as Alan describes), and one should not think less of anyone who feels pain, or think they are "faking it". Much pain (especially chronic) is just not (primarily) helped with medication, but psychological / psychiatric help
So...from what I’ve read in the comments and with the information from the video. This is basically stating that you shouldn’t overexaggerate when you feel pain while working out. If you do exaggerate (i.e. go to the doctor, take weeks off...etc) you will create the nocebo effect and associate some sort of neural connection that will hinder your ability for your brain to desensitize those responses. Correct me if I’m way off
I’ve learned this when I’m sick. I used to lay around in shorts and not do much for a couple of days. If I get sick at this point I will make it a point to go take a shower and get fully dressed and try and walk around in the house as if everything is normal...I generally feel much better when I do this.
Needed this today. Picked up 115lbs off the ground (extremely light for me) and 3 pops in my lower back had me feeling bad. Did what I could and left but I’ll be back working on it tomorrow to make it better
This is actually a fantastic way of presenting how pain works. As a manual therapist who specializes in functional neurology, I can attest to how well this is articulated. Pain is an output of the brain ultimately, and that pain output is determined not only by tissue damage, but also thoughts, emotions, ideas, past experiences, etc. Your brain has to rely on context to determine whether or not this pain is needed. Not all pain is bad. In fact, I would argue using "good" and "bad" as terms to describe pain is inaccurate. Pain is just your nervous system's way of telling you something is not functioning as optimally as it could.
Ya i had my first back tweak about a week ago from squatting. Felt painful, especially the day of and in the morning. My back was super tight , straight as an arrow and it hurt a lot to move. I took it easy for a couple days, told myself to focus on recovery and just try some light stretches and 3 days after the incident I was completely back to my regular self. It's such a weird pain because when I looked in the mirror my back looked straight as can be with no lumps and when i felt around there wasn't any pain pressure point i could find. I really reflected on my squat form after that lol
Recently tweaked my low back on the ascent of a lowbar squat. It was debilitating, I couldn’t walk without a cane for a couple days. Doctor said it was just a finer low back muscle that was strained.
I dont know... I did continue with lighter weight but today I tweaked it again... Not sure if "trucking along " is the right approach. I mean, are you going to tell that to Ronny coleman?
Thanks for this. I had exactly the experience described at the start of the video around a year ago. Was nowhere near as serious as I thought when first feeling the tweak!
I get these at least twice a year, even though I lift conservatively. Has happened while warming up light and i warmup thoroughly. 36 years old. Sucks bad
Did something to my back this Sunday and was thinking back on your back pain video this year, kind of perfect timing for this one. Thankfully with my job I don't really have a choice to sit down all day and be afraid to move as if I'm not on my feet moving heavy stuff around, I'm not working. It's anecdotal but the longest recovery I ever had from a back injury was when I was laid off and had zero reason to get up and move around.
I think what’s confusing is, how you differentiate between pain you should ignore and pain that’s serious or should be catered to? Austin hasn’t been able to bench press property for a while because of an issue with his elbow and I think Jordan had some issues with his elbows while squatting. How’d do you know what to do?
For me the problem's pretty much the opposite - my lower back clicks but I have no pain. It started when I started lifting a year ago with a bad form and anterior pelvic tilt. I stopped training, got back a couple of weeks ago after I worked on my posture and APT, and I still have these clicks. Really afraid of putting weight on the bar now.. and no idea what to do.. It's not just these normal clicks you can have on your knuckles, and it happens lots of times during the day.
I had a curiously timed back tweak a couple weeks after your back tweak video. And then I did what you said and was good to go, lol. So I both blame you and thank for my series of unfortunate events.
The point simply is that unless you have some very bad symptoms like nerve pain down the leg or an obvious tear, it's a good idea to get under the bar quickly. I for one have had couple of pretty nasty back tweaks and the more aggressive I've learnt to be with the rehab, the quicker I've been back to normal working weights. Instead of waiting for a week, wait a day or two at max and get at it.
Listen I tweaked my back 2 years ago or so at the age of 22 , 24 here I am at 25 and basically what this means is listen to your body but don’t be a bitch … my back just flared up and I needed to re watch this video so I don’t sink back into that bed I was trapped in for a year . Time to get up and march forward . “ all things heal “ words of wisdom .
Tweaked my back yesterday, so this video came handy now. Am I getting it right, Austin says we should avoid what doctors say (lay on a flat surface, take muscle relaxers) and move instead? Maybe even train with very light weights?
Just tweaked my lower back trying to pick up 315 I used to deadlift in the 500 range an I was out of the gym for a couple years just got back into training I had to get carried out of the gym trying to walk I felt this weird tweak as soon as I went to pick up the weight didn’t lift it off the floor cause I felt it like a pop in my lower back
Pain isn’t “fake”. It’s still completely real, it’s just that it doesn’t necessarily mean that there is any structural damage and vice versa, if there is structural damage it doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any pain. Pain is just something we perceive in the brain as a response to nociception or sometimes to normal stimulus that shouldn’t really hurt us if your nervous system is sensitised. Hope this helped 👍
So I now have a better understanding of what a back tweak really is, but what are the actual movements and cognitive strategies that you briefly mentioned at the end?
Yes, having an opinion on the topic of this video would be useful. You didn't present one. But since you brought it up, please post your 600lb squat videos. We'll wait.
So the pain which is the outcome is a safeguard and once the pain occurs u need to desensitize yr body by movement strategies aka prepping yr mind to the pain which may include accessory movement and doing lower weight. Doing so strengthens the body so that the pain becomes benign on the 'pain' scale. Is that what its saying? Pls help though lots of vocab here. Thanks!!
It rather that pain by itself means nothing. So a "back tweak" is just nonspecific pain and it doesn't mean you have an injury. If you don't have an injury there is no reason to let it affect your training. Aka you can be in pain without being hurt.
Wish I'd known this stuff last year, I hurt my back on a deadlift and recovery took months as I was sure any heavy lifting would lead to reinjury. I think the psychological side to it made it 10x worse. True enough, I started deadlifting again a few weeks ago and my back's felt better than ever.
Yesterday I tweaked my back with a pop on deadlifts with my fourth rep on 440lbs. After it, my hip was not straight anymore, I could see it in the mirror. I went to a chiropractor and he cracked the back, nevertheless, the hip was not straight after it. When I got home (I could not drive myself and could not sit still because of pain) I made deadlifts without bar and then only with the bar. Today in the morning i felt like my back was made out of cement, I had also a sharp pain in the upper front part of my thigh. Did some RDL after getting up with just 110lbs, now several hours later, the pain is nearly gone...this is not my first experience...the first time when I tweaked my back, I was not able to get out of bed, only on all fours (nevertheless I could still lift 400lbs after the incident). The pain stayed several months until I went for a trip and walked on a mountain from 1700m-3200m height. When I arrived on the top, I noticed, that all the pain had disappeared. Moving on and not resting helped me a lot of times....
I was waiting to see the process he took you through in a weekend to fix the issue....You kinda just touched upon what happens and left us with no info on how to apply this
I tweaked my back. Couldn’t walk without pain. Just walked around a lot. I did a lot of air romanian deadlifts in public throughout the following days. 3 days later I had squats and rack pulls. I felt completely fine.
Working through it is great, but never forget that pain may well be an indication that there is something actually wrong. As someone who deals with chronic back pain, I absolutely agree that you can't stop moving, that only makes it worse. But learn your body so you know when it's just lazy and whining and when it's injured and screaming for you to stop hurting it.
I did my back 6 months ago during a snatch. The top of my right hip has been in pain ever since. If I lye on my belly and arch my back I can feel the pain and wake up each morning with a sore top-of-hip. Any advice on what I can do about this? I have not trained for 6 months after reading that it's best to take time off and fully recover but I don't seem to be recovering. I drive a LOT for work and stuck in a bad posture most the day. Would appreciate any advice you all can give (disclaimer: understood that this is not medical advice and I will consult doctor)
A link to his article in the description wouldn't hurt. I was looking for sources or anything that could support these claims. I'm a beginner who recently found your channel and anything that could help me sort this out from the rest of the pseudo-scientific noise is very helpful
this is quite topical for me, as I "tweaked my back" yesterday during a warmup DL set. All I gather from this is that what I'm a p*ssy reporting total BS, and I should ignore my "so called pain". But I can tell you it is really difficult to walk right now. What should I do????
Move, light romanian deadlifts with bar only etc , as long as there is no numbness in legs oder radiating pain movement when cramped or tweaked is always better than no movement
I would agree, I've been to what I thought was snap city few times with my lower back. If I do nothing and let it heal itself, It doesn't necessary take longer than if I move around. But there is less pain overall with some bending and movement during the healing time
Think of the nocieption of pain sorta like this....you stub your toe in the middle of the night, that shit hurts!! Probably gotta walk it off, maybe not wear those tight fitting shoes the next day if it's that bad...but, really not a full blown, time off injury. I was having all this neck pain I thought was related to an injury I had as a teen while snowboarding for literally 2 yrs off and on, had my radiologist xray me...literally nothing wrong. 2 days later, realizing the pain was unfounded it resolved and hasnt been back since. I havent changed my training, still do all the normal overhead presses as I was, but no pain. Definitely a fear I created by the unknown.
Austin is completely correct that we need to keep training after a back injury. Pain signals aren't congruent with actual injury. However, on a subconscious level I think people want to know their exact source of the pain (and not the "reason we have pain" or the "pain science") before they are willing to accept their recommended treatment. It could be anything; disc bulge/heriation with or w/o nerve impingement, SI jt sprain or tear, muscle strain or tear, etc, etc. People want to know the cause, regardless of whether treatment is different for these injuries. I think your message should be that there are X number of sources of your pain (and list the most common), then let them know that the recommendations for ALL of these diagnoses is to squat, deadlift, bench, OHP within their means. People are more satisfied to say that they have a bulging disc than to say they have low back pain. Diagnosing a herniated disc is like giving the person a trophy. Its something a special snowflake can walk around telling everyone how bad they have it ❄️ 🏆. All in all, if you ignore diagnosing the patient they may be unwilling to accept treatment recommendations. And as always, TRAIN UNTAMMMMMED!!! Y'all rock!!
tbtactical I agree in that many people in pain think they'll find "comfort" by receiving a specific structural diagnosis for their pain. Even then it gets tricky because even though an "abnormality" like a bulge, herniation, etc shows up on MRI, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's where the pain is coming from. In fact, structural findings in the spine are a lot more common than people think, even in asymptomatic people, and dont correlate well with pain. So regardless of what is going on structurally, the treatment will be the same which is graded exposure to the barbell lifts like you said. I wish people wouldnt be so attached to a diagnosis but I empathize with them. I find this stuff fascinating and am glad these guys are spreading the message!
I still don't understand, I keep hurting my back doing certain lifts and i see no way around it but to just stop doing the lifts. I don't see mind of mattering this when the pain gets so bad im struggling to breathe.
That's really good to know. I have a question that doesn't quite relate to the video though. I contacted you some time ago asking for a program, you told me to try The Bridge which I did and it worked incredibly well. I went up 10 kilos after 4 weeks on each of my lifts. But the problem is I have become uninterested and bored by the big 4 movements and their variations. I still want to get stronger but I want to do something else. Strongman would be great but there isn't a gym with Strongman equipment for hundreds of miles. Can you help me out here? Thanks.
So what does this mean for someone like me with a slipped disc, It's been 2 years and I constantly relapse when I slowly try to squat again after periods of no pain. To the best of my knowledge, here my spinal liquid (being pushed out by the weight) is actually pressing on my spinal nerves causing a lot of pain in my left hip. Obviously I don't have a damaged hip, but the pain is very real.
Squat and deadlift at a weight where it doesn't hurt and slowly move up or at least find some alternatives you can do. Maybe do rack pulls and progress them by slowly moving them lower etc. Stop thinking that the slipped disc is what hurts. Part of what makes it hurt is that you are afraid of it hurting and generally the best thing for avoiding back pain is strengthening the supporting structures. It pretty much a meme by now but MRI's of people without pain find that 30-60% of them has slipped disc and muscle tears. Jordan has 5 slipped disc but never has any back pain.
I agree with everything sumsar said about training. In addition, I would get the term "slipped disc" out of your vocabulary. I say this because discs don't "slip" at all. You can look this up if you're interested. Discs can indeed bulge, herniate, etc, but they do not "slip". Slip is a made up term that ends up invoking fear in people and ultimately doesn't help their pain. I would also encourage you to try to remove all of that spinal and structural imagery out of your head because it isn't doing you any favors for your pain. The research shows us that structural "damage" doesn't typically correlate well with back pain. This is reassuring for back pain sufferers. You are right that all pain is real. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Let's find a way to train like sumsar said and slowly progress from there!
I'm a bit conflicted about this. I can see how it has better long term effects to be active and move more after receiving a minor injury, but does the same also go for non-minor injuries? How can you tell that you only have a minor injury? If you've got a more severe injury then catastrophizing and being kinesophobic might have better long-term results, and if you don't know whether you have a minor or a more severe injury it might be better to play it safe.
There is no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that "If you've got a more severe injury then catastrophizing and being kinesophobic might have better long-term results"; most of it is directly contradicting that.
I see, that's just what I intuitively assumed. Thanks for your reply. I'm interested in learning more about this, could you please provide a link to the study Alan mentioned in the video?
I wish I knew this around two years ago when I tweaked my back. It took me almost a year of lighter weight, but more volume to get back to where I was.
I don’t know. I worked out through pain for years thinking it was nothing and it kept getting worse and worse. An MRI indicated I had lumbar disc herniations, spinal stenosis, degenerative changes, and arthritis. I recently had to get my lumbar facet nerves burned off. I have learned that I need to listen to my body rather than ignore it. Working out should not be painful.
Legend says that early viewers of thrall videos will receive the strength of a thousand Baraki’s.
Jose Labastida It is known.
Nope
So it is written so shall it be done.
😂😂😂😂
UNLIMITEED POWAAAHHH
I'm a doctoral physical therapist, and I tell this to all of my chronic pain patients. Some of them get offended because they think I'm suggesting their pain is all in their head. But I say "it's not all in your head! But it is all in your brain. The difference is you're not imagining it; you just have to train your nerves to be less hypersensitive to movement or noxious stimuli."
I suggest watching this video a few times. Let it sink in.....
Miau
So in other words - pain don't hurt - some times.
yeah but there is no conclusion to this video. All pain is a bullshit and you never actually hurt and should stop from lifting heavy? Ok...
Sherr, that's not the message of the video at all. Go read Austin's full article on the Barbell Medicine website if you want the full argument and the conclusion you're looking for.
No pain is just your bodies warning system and with practice you can ignore even sharp pain - MMA fighters, Strongman contestants lifting huge weights with torn muscles and so on. Some pain - a back tweak for instance - could be worked through slowly in a short time instead of resting it for weeks.
Hey Alan, I tweaked my back last week, and the first thing I did was watch your previous back pain video for some guidance. I did exactly what you said I stayed calm, put the weights away and kept moving, doing air squats and DLs. I could barely move the next few hours, but kept positive and just kept telling my self it was nothing more than a pulled muscle or ligament. The next 2 days my back was very tight and pain was pretty crazy, but I just kept moving and was as positive as possible, and now 3 days after I’m feeling great already working my training weights back up. Last year, this injury would have taken me out for 6 months and probably would have had my quit power lifting out of fear lol.
Steven Truant literally the same for me bro I was able to train after 5 days after a back tweak, then a little over a month later I hit a 45lb squat pr (495). that's progress I would of never imagined over a year ago
@@Burog1 hopefully that will happen to me too
@@kryptonianstrength8461 yeah man back tweaks aren’t the end. It’s uncomfortable but you can work through it, just gotta be smart about it.
@@Burog1 doing my best by trying to be smart about it , did read alot of stuff and usually people said they got sharp pain during squats or deadlifts , mine was pressure above glute ,hopefully it will start getting better soon , cant wait to squat again with some solid weight
@@kryptonianstrength8461 u better now ? I’m a noob and was deadlifting 405 with questionable form (lower back doing all the work) and a couple days later felt tightness in low back and it’s gone on for a couple weeks. Only on one side and hip feels really tight as well and pain can be triggered when I lie on stomach and stretch left arm out to the right . Pain in lower left abs so I think it’s some kind of back tweak but lost tbh
I watched this 5 years ago and its saving me right now.
You and Barbell Medicine have changed my life
I had a back tweak like you from deadlifting, really bad it was pretty much exact same situation. I left the gym and came home and watched your video (the first one describing your back tweak) I followed the instructions of that video, and two days later I was able to hit some box squats with working weight! and two days after that I was back to deadlifting normally. So thanks for all of these videos Alan, very useful!
You should’ve ended the video with “Train Unpainnnnned”. Perfect pun opportunity.
Thanks Alan. This & your other video helped change my perspective from feeling sorry for myself to "it's fine that it hurts". I have a feeling this is going to be invaluable for me moving forward. We lift heavy and force our bodies to adapt to new levels of stress -- and it's easy to forget that the brain is just as involved as the muscles in our training process.
Hope this means more people will understand this stuff. I am so thankful for Baraki and his work
Austin "EEHAAAA" Baraki
And his trusty sidekick Dr. Jordan "Nuanced" Feigenbaum!
Dabid Dabidson 0:12
I almost spit out my drink when I read this hahaha
OMFG, I tweaked my back 2 hours ago, the timing in just unbelievable!
I think how lifting/pain are so closely linked is a fascinating thing to think about/discuss.
Agree with what you’re saying about benign back “tweaks”. Problem is that few lay people and many clinicians cannot always determine if what someone is having is only a tweak.
I was squatting last week, and heard a slight pop in the lower back right side near pelvis. It was very tight and painful after. Took two days of very light movement in the gym, doing what I could, accepted it for what it was and back to (almost normal) a week later. Part of the reason for doing all this was 100% the narratives I’ve been given from BBM and what I’ve learned about pain and nocebo with movement
I would love to see BarbellMedicine/Untamed Strength have this conversation with Dr. Stuart McGill. I don't think you are really all that different but the approaches are different.
Just took some forced time off for some lower back radiculopathy, but continued to use my reverse hyper for loading. Stepped back under the bar today and immediately retweaked it at low weight -_-
Just tweaked my back yesterday, thank you for this video.
I wonder how many people found this video because they spelt "twerk" wrong.
Back again after a minor back tweak on my first rep of Hatfield squats. Video is a life saver
As always, thanks Alan (and Austin) for this video
I couldn't agree more.
The entire body-mind complex is very well explained through traumatic (lifting) back pain.
We (physicians) also call this the gate-control theory (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_control_theory )
Input (nociception) processed through the pathways leading to the brain-center(s) for pain. No matter the amount of stimulus (nociceptive stimulus = the place you hurt yourself), it can be modulated and changed as it reaches the brain (where we feel the actual stimulus).
The modulation can be done in several ways:
- touching another area / inducing another physical stimulus (that's why, when we hurt ourselves, it helps to stroke the area og another area, as this takes away from the initial nociceptive input - the brain can only process so much)
- pain medication
- Increase arousal (that's why soldiers in war can run with massive wounds and feel no pain initially - the adrenaline / arousal)
- Feeling of control (this is the important one in acute pain, and probably THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE in terms of acute pain turning into chronic pain - a lot of acute back pain becomes chronic pain, because of FEAR (as Alan puts it - it hurts = it must be bad). This starts a cycle of: avoiding -> bad posture / secondary injuries -> even more fear etc)
As I posted on the other video, only a few things should scare you about lifting-related / traumatic back pain (the red flags) - and lead to call for 911 / Emergency Department:
- sudden lack of control of your anal sphincter / bowel and/or bladder
- Feeling of numbness in the saddle area (groin and inner thighs)
- motor (= can't lift foot / leg) weakness in one (most common) or both legs
If a burning pain radiates down your leg (neural pain, and not just nociceptive pain located to the back area), it's very rarely anything serious, but a check by a doctor would be in order
Best wishes
Peter
PS: neurokirurgi.info/pdf/RygKompendium.pdf (This is danish so sorry about that - On page 7, there is the most important graph on back pain. Biological causes havent increased, but more and more people seek help for backpain (chronic). This is complex, but to a large part has to do with the exact same thing as Alan / Austin are talking about - fear that pain is always bad, starting a vicious cycle)
PPS: The pain IS real for the one who feels it (whether or not there is a stimulus, the brain feels it - as Alan describes), and one should not think less of anyone who feels pain, or think they are "faking it". Much pain (especially chronic) is just not (primarily) helped with medication, but psychological / psychiatric help
So...from what I’ve read in the comments and with the information from the video. This is basically stating that you shouldn’t overexaggerate when you feel pain while working out. If you do exaggerate (i.e. go to the doctor, take weeks off...etc) you will create the nocebo effect and associate some sort of neural connection that will hinder your ability for your brain to desensitize those responses. Correct me if I’m way off
Marco Fuentes nailed it bruv
yup, that's pretty much it.
I’ve learned this when I’m sick. I used to lay around in shorts and not do much for a couple of days. If I get sick at this point I will make it a point to go take a shower and get fully dressed and try and walk around in the house as if everything is normal...I generally feel much better when I do this.
Needed this today. Picked up 115lbs off the ground (extremely light for me) and 3 pops in my lower back had me feeling bad. Did what I could and left but I’ll be back working on it tomorrow to make it better
How do you feel?
This is actually a fantastic way of presenting how pain works. As a manual therapist who specializes in functional neurology, I can attest to how well this is articulated. Pain is an output of the brain ultimately, and that pain output is determined not only by tissue damage, but also thoughts, emotions, ideas, past experiences, etc. Your brain has to rely on context to determine whether or not this pain is needed. Not all pain is bad. In fact, I would argue using "good" and "bad" as terms to describe pain is inaccurate. Pain is just your nervous system's way of telling you something is not functioning as optimally as it could.
Juu
So how can I get better?
PAIN UNTAMEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Mike Stoklasa Fuck off Mike, you're drunk again
Mike. I think your a few Ds short.
Annnnnnd I'm revisiting this video because I tweaked my back again, picking up a damn sock. Good shit.
Ya i had my first back tweak about a week ago from squatting. Felt painful, especially the day of and in the morning. My back was super tight , straight as an arrow and it hurt a lot to move. I took it easy for a couple days, told myself to focus on recovery and just try some light stretches and 3 days after the incident I was completely back to my regular self. It's such a weird pain because when I looked in the mirror my back looked straight as can be with no lumps and when i felt around there wasn't any pain pressure point i could find. I really reflected on my squat form after that lol
I’ve been a fan of Alan for a few years now. Now I’m back here again cause Stan Efferding linked this video in his program
Recently tweaked my low back on the ascent of a lowbar squat. It was debilitating, I couldn’t walk without a cane for a couple days. Doctor said it was just a finer low back muscle that was strained.
"Suck it up, buttercup" - Austin Baraki, 2018
I have learned a lot from these more common sense videos than a lot of other videos out here.
I im really enjoying your video's and learning alot... I'm stronger than I've ever been at 40 year's old
You guys are my heroes right now
Had a tweak in my beard the other day, any tips on how to recuperate and keep getting them beard gainz?
I dont know... I did continue with lighter weight but today I tweaked it again... Not sure if "trucking along " is the right approach.
I mean, are you going to tell that to Ronny coleman?
Thanks for this. I had exactly the experience described at the start of the video around a year ago. Was nowhere near as serious as I thought when first feeling the tweak!
So your editing is better and you sound really smart. I'm fucked.
I get these at least twice a year, even though I lift conservatively. Has happened while warming up light and i warmup thoroughly. 36 years old. Sucks bad
Did something to my back this Sunday and was thinking back on your back pain video this year, kind of perfect timing for this one. Thankfully with my job I don't really have a choice to sit down all day and be afraid to move as if I'm not on my feet moving heavy stuff around, I'm not working. It's anecdotal but the longest recovery I ever had from a back injury was when I was laid off and had zero reason to get up and move around.
Commenting so I can find my way back to this video
Bro that's whas great! I just catch the difference betwine pain and " pain". Thanks !!!
This man speaketh the truth.
Where was the "what to do about them" part?
Dr Austin Baraki introduction is fking gold. Too few people appreciate it :D
I think what’s confusing is, how you differentiate between pain you should ignore and pain that’s serious or should be catered to? Austin hasn’t been able to bench press property for a while because of an issue with his elbow and I think Jordan had some issues with his elbows while squatting. How’d do you know what to do?
For me the problem's pretty much the opposite - my lower back clicks but I have no pain.
It started when I started lifting a year ago with a bad form and anterior pelvic tilt.
I stopped training, got back a couple of weeks ago after I worked on my posture and APT, and I still have these clicks.
Really afraid of putting weight on the bar now.. and no idea what to do.. It's not just these normal clicks you can have on your knuckles, and it happens lots of times during the day.
Is it your hips
I had a curiously timed back tweak a couple weeks after your back tweak video. And then I did what you said and was good to go, lol. So I both blame you and thank for my series of unfortunate events.
The point simply is that unless you have some very bad symptoms like nerve pain down the leg or an obvious tear, it's a good idea to get under the bar quickly.
I for one have had couple of pretty nasty back tweaks and the more aggressive I've learnt to be with the rehab, the quicker I've been back to normal working weights.
Instead of waiting for a week, wait a day or two at max and get at it.
Perfect timing I screwed up my back from squatting 2 days a ago.
Listen I tweaked my back 2 years ago or so at the age of 22 , 24 here I am at 25 and basically what this means is listen to your body but don’t be a bitch … my back just flared up and I needed to re watch this video so I don’t sink back into that bed I was trapped in for a year . Time to get up and march forward . “ all things heal “ words of wisdom .
Tweaked my back yesterday, so this video came handy now. Am I getting it right, Austin says we should avoid what doctors say (lay on a flat surface, take muscle relaxers) and move instead? Maybe even train with very light weights?
Correct.
Just tweaked my lower back trying to pick up 315 I used to deadlift in the 500 range an I was out of the gym for a couple years just got back into training I had to get carried out of the gym trying to walk I felt this weird tweak as soon as I went to pick up the weight didn’t lift it off the floor cause I felt it like a pop in my lower back
Good upload timing. Tweaked my back just yesterday
Quoting the definition of pain you said for when the quote was from towards the end.
all good and well, but how am I supposed to differentiate between "injury" pain and "fake" pain?
Pain isn’t “fake”. It’s still completely real, it’s just that it doesn’t necessarily mean that there is any structural damage and vice versa, if there is structural damage it doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any pain.
Pain is just something we perceive in the brain as a response to nociception or sometimes to normal stimulus that shouldn’t really hurt us if your nervous system is sensitised.
Hope this helped 👍
So I now have a better understanding of what a back tweak really is, but what are the actual movements and cognitive strategies that you briefly mentioned at the end?
Long story short can confirm that not giving a f**k about my tailbone pain actually made it hurt less, very interesting video
Nice of you to advertise for Barbell Medicine.
You do realize that Alan is a Barbell Medicine coach... Right?
Scott Tomlinson Yes and he did an awesome job of advertising the masters of the good morning squat.
Trolls everywhere.
TCA17 Yes you are right. God forbid anyone has an opinion that differs from a fan boys. That makes me a troll.
Yes, having an opinion on the topic of this video would be useful. You didn't present one. But since you brought it up, please post your 600lb squat videos. We'll wait.
So the pain which is the outcome is a safeguard and once the pain occurs u need to desensitize yr body by movement strategies aka prepping yr mind to the pain which may include accessory movement and doing lower weight. Doing so strengthens the body so that the pain becomes benign on the 'pain' scale.
Is that what its saying? Pls help though lots of vocab here. Thanks!!
It rather that pain by itself means nothing. So a "back tweak" is just nonspecific pain and it doesn't mean you have an injury. If you don't have an injury there is no reason to let it affect your training.
Aka you can be in pain without being hurt.
sumsar01 I didnt say it was an injury. I mentioned it to be a safeguard which means its like a warning
perfect timing...i just tweaked my back this past sunday.
Wish I'd known this stuff last year, I hurt my back on a deadlift and recovery took months as I was sure any heavy lifting would lead to reinjury. I think the psychological side to it made it 10x worse.
True enough, I started deadlifting again a few weeks ago and my back's felt better than ever.
i pray theres nothing wrong with my back, i just starting making good progress and now my tailbone hurts like a bitch after squatting my normal weight
Yesterday I tweaked my back with a pop on deadlifts with my fourth rep on 440lbs. After it, my hip was not straight anymore, I could see it in the mirror. I went to a chiropractor and he cracked the back, nevertheless, the hip was not straight after it. When I got home (I could not drive myself and could not sit still because of pain) I made deadlifts without bar and then only with the bar. Today in the morning i felt like my back was made out of cement, I had also a sharp pain in the upper front part of my thigh. Did some RDL after getting up with just 110lbs, now several hours later, the pain is nearly gone...this is not my first experience...the first time when I tweaked my back, I was not able to get out of bed, only on all fours (nevertheless I could still lift 400lbs after the incident). The pain stayed several months until I went for a trip and walked on a mountain from 1700m-3200m height. When I arrived on the top, I noticed, that all the pain had disappeared. Moving on and not resting helped me a lot of times....
I was waiting to see the process he took you through in a weekend to fix the issue....You kinda just touched upon what happens and left us with no info on how to apply this
He explicitly covered that in his last video on back tweaks.
Ok thanks
I tweaked my back. Couldn’t walk without pain. Just walked around a lot. I did a lot of air romanian deadlifts in public throughout the following days. 3 days later I had squats and rack pulls. I felt completely fine.
Thanks for the link....The vids should have been done as one...just as a thought
Working through it is great, but never forget that pain may well be an indication that there is something actually wrong. As someone who deals with chronic back pain, I absolutely agree that you can't stop moving, that only makes it worse. But learn your body so you know when it's just lazy and whining and when it's injured and screaming for you to stop hurting it.
So basically its like when the gunny asks, 'are you hurt, or injured'?
Lol either way the doc gives you Motrin and sends you back to your unit
@@jon5310 Hahaha true
I did my back 6 months ago during a snatch. The top of my right hip has been in pain ever since. If I lye on my belly and arch my back I can feel the pain and wake up each morning with a sore top-of-hip. Any advice on what I can do about this? I have not trained for 6 months after reading that it's best to take time off and fully recover but I don't seem to be recovering. I drive a LOT for work and stuck in a bad posture most the day. Would appreciate any advice you all can give (disclaimer: understood that this is not medical advice and I will consult doctor)
Did you ever heal?
This so helped my back! Thank you so much.
A link to his article in the description wouldn't hurt. I was looking for sources or anything that could support these claims. I'm a beginner who recently found your channel and anything that could help me sort this out from the rest of the pseudo-scientific noise is very helpful
this is quite topical for me, as I "tweaked my back" yesterday during a warmup DL set. All I gather from this is that what I'm a p*ssy reporting total BS, and I should ignore my "so called pain". But I can tell you it is really difficult to walk right now. What should I do????
Move, light romanian deadlifts with bar only etc , as long as there is no numbness in legs oder radiating pain movement when cramped or tweaked is always better than no movement
I would agree, I've been to what I thought was snap city few times with my lower back. If I do nothing and let it heal itself, It doesn't necessary take longer than if I move around. But there is less pain overall with some bending and movement during the healing time
As usual great content. Thanks, Alan.
Alan what do you think of Dr.McGill back research ? would you recommend it ?
Think of the nocieption of pain sorta like this....you stub your toe in the middle of the night, that shit hurts!! Probably gotta walk it off, maybe not wear those tight fitting shoes the next day if it's that bad...but, really not a full blown, time off injury.
I was having all this neck pain I thought was related to an injury I had as a teen while snowboarding for literally 2 yrs off and on, had my radiologist xray me...literally nothing wrong. 2 days later, realizing the pain was unfounded it resolved and hasnt been back since.
I havent changed my training, still do all the normal overhead presses as I was, but no pain.
Definitely a fear I created by the unknown.
Austin is completely correct that we need to keep training after a back injury. Pain signals aren't congruent with actual injury. However, on a subconscious level I think people want to know their exact source of the pain (and not the "reason we have pain" or the "pain science") before they are willing to accept their recommended treatment. It could be anything; disc bulge/heriation with or w/o nerve impingement, SI jt sprain or tear, muscle strain or tear, etc, etc. People want to know the cause, regardless of whether treatment is different for these injuries. I think your message should be that there are X number of sources of your pain (and list the most common), then let them know that the recommendations for ALL of these diagnoses is to squat, deadlift, bench, OHP within their means. People are more satisfied to say that they have a bulging disc than to say they have low back pain. Diagnosing a herniated disc is like giving the person a trophy. Its something a special snowflake can walk around telling everyone how bad they have it ❄️ 🏆. All in all, if you ignore diagnosing the patient they may be unwilling to accept treatment recommendations.
And as always, TRAIN UNTAMMMMMED!!! Y'all rock!!
tbtactical I agree in that many people in pain think they'll find "comfort" by receiving a specific structural diagnosis for their pain. Even then it gets tricky because even though an "abnormality" like a bulge, herniation, etc shows up on MRI, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's where the pain is coming from. In fact, structural findings in the spine are a lot more common than people think, even in asymptomatic people, and dont correlate well with pain. So regardless of what is going on structurally, the treatment will be the same which is graded exposure to the barbell lifts like you said. I wish people wouldnt be so attached to a diagnosis but I empathize with them. I find this stuff fascinating and am glad these guys are spreading the message!
I still don't understand, I keep hurting my back doing certain lifts and i see no way around it but to just stop doing the lifts. I don't see mind of mattering this when the pain gets so bad im struggling to breathe.
That's really good to know. I have a question that doesn't quite relate to the video though. I contacted you some time ago asking for a program, you told me to try The Bridge which I did and it worked incredibly well. I went up 10 kilos after 4 weeks on each of my lifts. But the problem is I have become uninterested and bored by the big 4 movements and their variations. I still want to get stronger but I want to do something else. Strongman would be great but there isn't a gym with Strongman equipment for hundreds of miles. Can you help me out here? Thanks.
Man, I really REALLY love muscle relaxers.
Can someone link the article from the newsletter? I can't find it on the website.
So what does this mean for someone like me with a slipped disc, It's been 2 years and I constantly relapse when I slowly try to squat again after periods of no pain. To the best of my knowledge, here my spinal liquid (being pushed out by the weight) is actually pressing on my spinal nerves causing a lot of pain in my left hip. Obviously I don't have a damaged hip, but the pain is very real.
Squat and deadlift at a weight where it doesn't hurt and slowly move up or at least find some alternatives you can do. Maybe do rack pulls and progress them by slowly moving them lower etc. Stop thinking that the slipped disc is what hurts. Part of what makes it hurt is that you are afraid of it hurting and generally the best thing for avoiding back pain is strengthening the supporting structures.
It pretty much a meme by now but MRI's of people without pain find that 30-60% of them has slipped disc and muscle tears. Jordan has 5 slipped disc but never has any back pain.
I agree with everything sumsar said about training. In addition, I would get the term "slipped disc" out of your vocabulary. I say this because discs don't "slip" at all. You can look this up if you're interested. Discs can indeed bulge, herniate, etc, but they do not "slip". Slip is a made up term that ends up invoking fear in people and ultimately doesn't help their pain. I would also encourage you to try to remove all of that spinal and structural imagery out of your head because it isn't doing you any favors for your pain. The research shows us that structural "damage" doesn't typically correlate well with back pain. This is reassuring for back pain sufferers. You are right that all pain is real. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Let's find a way to train like sumsar said and slowly progress from there!
“Pain don’t hurt. You just turn it off.”
-Austin “Road House” Baraki
at 3:11, you misspelled "ultimate"
Always great content Mr Thrall!
Dear Alan, is back popping/cracking a bad sign?
Where is the link to the actual article?
EDIT: NVM I found it.
www.barbellmedicine.com/the-science-of-where-your-pain-comes-from/
@AlanThrall so how do you know if its a real injury or just pain?
Ok so my question is, is the brain always wrong to think there is danger/a threat? When do we ignore it and when do we take it seriously?
I felt the sharp pain once i just fixed my form it was a littlw off. Not even one problem since then 1 month now.
What about hamstring strains? I squat 3x a week
What about pain from tendinitis?
I'm a bit conflicted about this.
I can see how it has better long term effects to be active and move more after receiving a minor injury, but does the same also go for non-minor injuries? How can you tell that you only have a minor injury? If you've got a more severe injury then catastrophizing and being kinesophobic might have better long-term results, and if you don't know whether you have a minor or a more severe injury it might be better to play it safe.
There is no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that "If you've got a more severe injury then catastrophizing and being kinesophobic might have better long-term results"; most of it is directly contradicting that.
I see, that's just what I intuitively assumed. Thanks for your reply.
I'm interested in learning more about this, could you please provide a link to the study Alan mentioned in the video?
A few here www.barbellmedicine.com/catastrophizing/
I wish I knew this around two years ago when I tweaked my back. It took me almost a year of lighter weight, but more volume to get back to where I was.
What are those 'movement and deliberate cognitive strategies'?
I'm happy I learned this young
0:11 wasn't expecting that, laughed like an idiot :D
Can you give a few tips for tweaked shoulders?
m kl same thing, pain is pain, no different from the back
Excellent advice, why has no doctor ever explained this to me?
Is this why I feel like I pulled a glute sometimes when benching?
thank you very much, very helpful
I don’t know. I worked out through pain for years thinking it was nothing and it kept getting worse and worse. An MRI indicated I had lumbar disc herniations, spinal stenosis, degenerative changes, and arthritis. I recently had to get my lumbar facet nerves burned off. I have learned that I need to listen to my body rather than ignore it. Working out should not be painful.