Logistics of the German Air Force in World War 2
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Patreon: / mhv
The logistics of the German air force, they so called "Luftwaffe", became a nightmare pretty fast. This is due to several reasons detailed and illustrated in this short video. Certain aspects are also compared to the US Army Air Force.
Main Source
Boog, Horst: Luftwaffe und Logistik im Zweiten Weltkrieg; in: Vorträge zur Militärgeschichte 7: Die Bedeutung der Logistik für die militärische Führung von der Antike bis in die neueste Zeit.
Additional Sources
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
Citations
Boog, Horst: Luftwaffe und Logistik im Zweiten Weltkrieg: S. 242-243 referring to "L. Dv. [Luftwaffendruckvorschrift] g. 90, Entwurf. Die Versorgung der Luftwaffe im Kriege (Quartiermeister-Vorschrift), Berlin 1936, S. 7."
![[Barbarossa] The Major Errors and Blunders - Or why Barbarossa Failed](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A_3R-Rkn_98/mqdefault.jpg)
Very well delivered and great overview. The United States had no choice but to EMPHASIZE logistics. To fight in either "theater" (sounds like entertainment) the Forces needed to cross oceans. I have the view that, at the critical time, German industry was shallow rooted and procurement of raw materials was a baccarat game with the Reich Minister the croupier. The perceived threat from the East set in motion a timetable that reduced flexibility in planning. Logistics is the opening card of planning.
The Germans put their planning eggs all in the basket of winning ground. Having cleverly defeated France, the cost of providing an administrative apparatus to govern France was not overcome by a greater value in increased industrial strength. Whoops! Having built massive sub pens on the French coast to strangle England, they only succeeded in damaging lots of convoys, but never significantly enough to leverage England in a negotiation. Whoops!
Germany produced a front loaded military able to take lots of real estate quickly, but that's as far as it goes. Hitler sought to rewrite WW1, but then his plans became vague - 1000 year Reich or whatever. He succeeded, and completely replayed WW1 where Germany wins militarily, for a while anyway.
We little Germans and Americans hope and hope for genius and long term planning from our leaders, but look at IRAQ. We won!, but what did we win? and what was the value of all that destruction? I haven't a clue.
To my knowledge this is the complete list of aircraft guns/cannons used in combat by the Luftwaffe in ww2:
7,92mm MG 15, 7,92mm MG17, 7,92mm MG81, 13mm MG 131, 15mm MG 151, 20 mm MG FF, 20mm MG 151, 30 mm MK 101, 30 mm MK 103, 30 mm MK 108, 37mm BK 3,7, 50 mm BK 5, 75mm BK 7,5.
With the exception of the 7,92mm guns, ammunition was not interchangeable between any of them.
In contrast, the U.S. airforce used the .50 cal almost exclusively in all of its airplanes, except for a small number of 20mm cannons in the P-38 and the B-29, and some .30 cal guns early in the war before they were sorted out.
+Galland I agree, but the MG15 and MG17 were 7.92mm not 9mm, 9mm is usually a pistol round not rifle.
+Military History
Ouch, what a dumb mistake by me. Corrected.
+Galland US also fielded a 37mm cannon on the P-39
And a 75mm cannon on the B-25. But those were someone's bright idea to battle tanks (the forerunner of the A-10) or ships, but in general the US stuck with the .50 cal.
We also produced a large number of F4U-1 Corsair fighters with an armament of 4x 20mm Hispano HS404 autocannon. These proved difficult to maintain in service and were prone to jams in combat, though, to be fair, it might've been retooling them for first UK and then USA manufacture that created the troubles.
"When delivered, the guns proved to be extremely unreliable and suffered a considerable number of misfires due to the round being lightly struck by the firing pin."
Also, every P38 Lightning had a 20mm in its nose, a nod toward its origin as a Zerstorer/Bomber Buster. The 37mm Colt Designed Oldsmobile built M9, the intended heavy gun on P38s, had low velocity causing it to have a drooping trajectory, with Chuck Yeager reporting that it was like : "throwing a grapefruit".
Just for fun:
Oldsmobile World War Two / WWII Production Numbers / Statistics for the Lansing, MI Home Plant
Cannons:
(77,010) 20mm M2 aircraft cannon built from 10-16-1941 to 1-31-1944,
(2,779) 37mm M4 aircraft cannon built from 7-12-1942 to 6-16-1943,
(1,500) 37mm M4E3, (150) 37mm M1A2 anti-aircraft cannon,
(2,930) 37mm M9 anti-aircraft cannon built from 5-23-1943 to 5-16-1944,
(5,129) 75mm M6/T13, (21,894) 75mm M3 tank cannon built from 4-25-1942 to 2-4-1944,
(14,135) 76mm M1A2 tank and tank destroyer cannon with production to 6-1-1945. Olds also built the M7 3 inch cannon used in the M10 tank destroyer. The weapons are similar in that 3 inches is equivalent to the 76.2mm the 76mm size the cannon M1A2 actually was. The M7 production numbers are included in the 14,135 number built.
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For a video on medieval logistics see this video on my second channel: ua-cam.com/video/sU06Yr5ZzRc/v-deo.html
There are great videos, your grasp of analysis is really striking!
Just for the record, the B-17 did also have two .30 caliber guns mounting in its "cheeks", but they were secondary and rarely used.
they'd be very useful for all those times you're chasing down an enemy bomber... in another bomber...
I think, your best video yet! Pretty cool comparisons - the perfect mix between information and entertainment :-)
+Josef Seibl thank you! I was also very happy with the result, furthermore it was also my most efficient video so far.
Excelent! Keep up your good work. The logistical aspects of WW2 are fascinating because of the insights they give. thank you
Rewatching these older videos and it really brings home how much your presentation style and visualisations have improved. Good work!
Glad you like them!
No offense but when I think of German engineering I usually associate it with something that's highly complex and overengineered. This was certainly true during WW II where every tank designed after the PzKfpw IV was an extremely complicated and overengineered beast of a machine, today it's delicate, but often high performance automobiles, that requires lots of and expensive maintenance.
Overall, I think the problem with the German military as a whole during WW II as they were never satisfied with good enough and were constantly trying to come out with the next best thing. They fielded tons of different fighters and bombers and were busy trying to develop long range heavy bombers towards the end of the war and they were famous (or notorious depending on your point of view) for constantly coming with more and more different, and increasingly larger/heavier tanks as well countless tank destroyers and assault guns based on them.
True but good enough wouldn’t have worked out for them so it kinda makes sense.
Binge watching all of your videos during quarantine
Appropriate paraphrase from Tom Clancy: "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics."
And, to paraphrase Clauswitz's conclusion in Vom Krieg: "War is unprofitable., Give it up."
William Cox logistics has nothing to do with profit.
Luftwaffe is interesting. German success in the early years 39 - 41 only added to its problems. Defensively it went from having to provide flak, radar and fighters only for Germany to then being forced to cover an area stretching from Norway to Spain and across the meditaranean to Egypt so it became thin very rapidly.
It was also the only service to be in continuous combat first in Poland, immediately followed by British bombing raids who rapidly turn to night bombing - something neither side had really prepared for. Then there was the invasion of Norway, then France, then the Battle of Britain plus continued bombing of Germany, France too now then Greece, Crete,Malta and Libya then Russia.
It was so engaged its strength of all types of aircraft stayed fairly constant for much of the war at about 5,000 aircraft. Only its flak, radar and searchlight companies really grew yet their effectiveness declined as aircraft flew higher, faster and became more robust too with better armour protection and self sealing fuel tanks. These improvements also saw the fighters struggle too as it took them longer to gain the altitude at which they could intercept and some such as the FW190 did not perform well at such altitudes. To combat the improved aircraft they also needed more powerful guns and cannons
A little video on the figures here might actually make for an interesting little video?
Nice and fantastic video. Keep making them.These video is convenient for me and provide many useful data for me. Thank u！
Excellent info. What reading would you recommend for better understanding of Luftwaffe logistics in WW2 (down to maintenance organization in staffel and gruppe)?
Sadly there is not much out there, @military aviation history might know
Have to admit it took me a while to understand you through your accent but now I can understand you and enjoy your work very much
thank you, my newer videos should be easier to understand.
One of Thailand wehrmacht officer also mentioned that the defeat of german army was contribute to the lack of spare part to fix a wide variety of german tanks and plane.
Japan also had a problem repairing aircraft. Many of the aircraft scattered around Japanese airfields and repeatedly attacked by the Americans were simply abandoned since they couldn't repair them.
I agree that the USAAF (& USN) focus on the Browning .50 cal machine gun was a good idea, but many other militaries preferred an assortment of machine guns and cannons for their air craft that seemed to make sense at the time. For Germany, it may have been more important to produce as many weapons as possible rather than the best weapons possible.
Interesting points and good presentation.
Of particular interest, the variety of weapons carried aboard the HE111's vs the single type aboard the US aircraft.
Thank you for the kind reply. I shall think on it.
All branches of the US military kept the number of different designs to a minimum. This both reduced the number of different types of spare parts but allowed damaged machines to be cannibalized for spares. For operation Barbarossa the Wehrmacht swept the occupied countries for every vehicle they could find. The meant over 2000 different vehicles types with over 1 million different spare parts. A light van designed to transport bread on a well made French metropolitan road soon fell apart trying to carry military supplies on the unmade dirt and gravel roads of rural Russia. The US used only the eight ton GM tuck in Europe. The entire production of Studebaker military trucks went to the Red army.
Great videos!!. Can you make some about their top leaders. Military like their Field Marshalls Erich von Manstein and Guderian and Generals like Hoth, Rommel and Colonel Ernst Udet and ministers like Albert Speer? Or what about something on battle tactics they used on main battles? I know it sounds easy and it is a lot of work... just a thought and great videos, very informative! We all thank you!
thank you! Good chances for Guderian, copied parts of phd thesis about him / his influence on creating the Panzertruppe.
Wow a Phd thesis on Guderian! Awesome! Looking forward to it a lot!! Thx! And again, great work!
Keep up the good work, mate. Cheers!
+MaxRavenclaw thx, already working on the next one(s)!
I've started work on the next part of my T-34 album as well.
+MaxRavenclaw :) I love your flairs!!! Do you know the game Steel Panthers btw?
Glad you like them. No, I have not. They appear to be quite old. What of them?
+MaxRavenclaw great tactical games that feature armor values for all major parts of the tank hull and turret: front, side, back. WW2 tanks: Steel Panthers 1 & 3; Modern tanks: Steel Panthers 2. I loved them, but I know the problem with old games, if I didn't played them back then and try them now, it is like: yuk!
Liked for coining the word "Luftbook."
Great
Brilliant
I am Colonel Retired Military Engineer of the Brazilian Army
Currently Professor of Operational Research in Logistics Courses at a polytechnic education institution.
I would like to know if there is any scientific publication about this video because I would like to quote in my works.
Thank you very much
Very well done!
Very interesting video. Did this differ from Germany's approach to logistics in WWI?
+True North you mean in general or concerning the air force?
+Military History Considering the more limited role of air power in WWI, I meant in general. But I'd be interested in any information. Thank you for the follow up.
+True North you are welcome, so I did a bit of reading. Basically, the scope of WWI was beyond anything the Germans anticipated. There are some numbers from the war in 1870/1871 vs. WWI: 1,4 Mio vs. 13 Mio; on a "big day" (Großkampftag) in WWI the German Army used more ammo than in the whole war of 1870/1871 with around 356 000 shells. For bullets: 20 Mio in 1870/1871, in WW1 about 200 Mio by average per *month*. They also had a very operational approach, which some assume was based on their focus on Clausewitz, who strictly kept two issues separated. Yet, he couldn't foresee the future. Schlieffen ignored must logistical troubles or "diminished" them in the planning, but their seems to be a bit of controversy. One aspect is certain, the logistical aspects weren't given enough thought. During the war it seems they adapted and acknowledged the need for logistics, sometimes they even were a bit too cautious. The problem is most primary sources are lost. Another aspect is that due to the trench warfare (Western Front), logistics had a different (less) impact in World War I. (Source: Rohde, Horst: Beispiele für den Einfluß der Logistik auf die Operationsführung des deutschen Heeres im 1. Weltkrieg; in: see description)
+Military History Thanks for the follow up.
Thank you and congratulation for the clarity of the topics. Is it possible to get some information about the different ranks of the german air force during wwII? When you start flying a BF 109 you are officer? Than you might be officer-chief of squadron? Then above, you are colonel? How many pilots does a chief of squadron command ? etc...
1:55
Revenge of the Nerds
This is actually a model that can explain the logistical shortcomings in Everything from German uboats to us air force in Korea. Thank You.
Wunderbar! great video that you made. It was true the Wehrmacht. had to many different types of vehicles and weapons. It was quarter mastersnnight mare. on the eastern front the luftwaffe had to ferry ttheir own fuel and and supplies the front.
fantastic .
+christian claassen thank you!
we are from Brazil.
Very interesting. :-).
Some of the North American B-25 Mitchells also used a 75mm M4.
Inefficient dictator economy. Good Job on video.
I notice you did not mention the many captured planes used in Germany, which increased the logistic problem. might want to look at
www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/foreign.html
I wonder how much influence the industry heads had with the political Nazi gauleiter and thus Goering (third in the Nazi party), and if that had much to do with the variety of planes.
Very well said. The nazi economy was an economy of plunder driven by plunder.
In some way the current US "industrial-military complex" and the political connections it have on both parties (reps and dems) remind me of this.
Britain created the Civilian Repair Organisation which returned 79,000 damaged aircraft to service. 36% of all RAF heavy aircraft had been rebuilt by the CRO. As they advanced the allies found airfields full of repairable but discarded Luftwaffe machines.
pardon me, but this directive sounds like it came from Fridrich the Great, rather than a convetinal military. Fridrich had his attitude towards soldier as a part of the war machine engraved in military formulas of his time.
The 3 big issues are the competing organisations and rivalries, a result of Hitler's attitudes and policies, Germany's late industrial mobilisation and Germany's desperate search for technical advantage to counter their opponents' manpower and material supplies.
In the final year of the war, when killing reached new heights, Germany produced aircraft and spares far in excess of the aircrew to use them
I don't see any logic of developing the 13mm. The combat aircraft must be adapted to arm exclusively MG151/20 as early as 1942.
Ingenious video, I learned a lot, thanks!
But the part about logistics often (not only in your video) sounds as if logistics were disregarded in the Wehrmacht or in the Luftwaffe or something. This is absoluteley not the case, organizign stuff is the thing germans understand a little bit about.
But soldiers fighting at the front, thereby carrying the major risks of battle, had a higher esteem than the guys moving boxes along, although both soldiers are crucial to any war effort.The Israeli Professor Martin v. Crefeld puts it that way: The further you were away from the front, the higher was the probability to get a medal (in the US Army in the 2nd WW). That doesn't sound quite right also.
And: Russia and America didn't win the war because they treated their logistic personnel so nice, but beacause they had, dunno, a 100 times more resources to be distributed, or am I wrong?
grega work
disdain for technology logistics and engineering when they are key to success... that's not smart I think
Why are we yelling!? LOUD NOISES!!
very nice videos but you have a very strong german accent^^
+drkarlthe1 you mean "and" not "but" :) thanks
fuckin' luftbook lololol
666 like 😈
The German Air Force was way nastier than all the other air forces of the world all because of the Me-262 and the first jet technology.