Corruptible: Who Gets Power and How it Changes Us (Brian Klaas)
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- The Michael Shermer Show # 238
Does power corrupt, or are corrupt people drawn to power? Are entrepreneurs who embezzle and cops who kill the result of poorly designed systems or are they simply bad people? What sort of people aspire to power anyway? Are there individuals among us who should never be given the title of president, or CEO, or PTA leader lest they build their own dictatorship?
Michael Shermer speaks with Brian Klaas, a renowned political scientist, Washington Post columnist and creator of the award-winning Power Corrupts podcast, about his long sought answers to the above questions.
In his new book Klaas draws on over 500 interviews with some of the world’s top leaders - from the noblest to the most crooked - including presidents and philanthropists as well as rebels, cultists, and dictators, to get to the root of power and corruption. Klaas dives into how facial appearance determines who we pick as leaders, why narcissists make more money, why some people don’t want power at all and others are drawn to it out of a psychopathic impulse, and why being the “beta” (second in command) may be the optimal place for health and well-being.
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This was great, one of the best/meaninful episodes so far. Thank you. : )
It was totally in favor of the left.
"Of course you wont have an effective democracy if you have warlords controlling various regions."
Or corporations controlling various senators/congressman.
Great podcast as usual !! Been following your work for about 40 years ! I know this work and have danced around the edges before if some of the literature . Amazing book !!
On democracy:
"In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of régime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way.” -George Orwell
Mike couldn't have picked a better guest and topic discussion than this for these times! Awesome!
The best yourube channel for the thinking person!
This was an enlightening conversation. Michael Shermer outperformed his amazing track record.
You totally missed their biases in favor of the left.
A strong bureaucracy can mute the impact of a poor leader. Totally agree with his point of effective reasonable people being disincentivized to enter public work. That can be destabilizing
Great and interesting talk. As a foreigner its interesting to see the difference between the first and second part of the interview. Not much self awareness there.
It was totally in favor of the left.
Shermer has the self awareness of a Californian.
When it comes to the dark triad: these are features not bugs. If I'm right about this we probably shouldn't malign these things to the extent that the only way to get a position is to virtue signal like crazy(because that is really superficial). We also need a level of narcissism to have a "working" ego to be able to function in the world.
Not surprised by the "prius situation", funny as it may be. When you get brownie points for something, more people oriented towards status will be attracted to it.
My two cents.
Thank you both for an interesting conversation.
Rutger Bregman talks a lot about misrepresented 'truths' about human's tendency to misbehave and how the Stanford Prison experiment was widely wrongly reported - in his book 'Human Kind'. Corruptible is a great book by the way!
Awesome interview...Cheers!
Outstanding
Well I got through listening to this conversation. Thanks. exhausting
"Loyalty test!" My favourite new phrase for the lunatic propositions from the far left.
Those Loyalty tests are on every side
The problem with people not being able to find Dems and Reps they think are decent people isn't with the people, it's the fact that none of those politicians are decent people. We shouldn't lower our standards. If anything we should raise them, and if the politicians the parties vomit out can't meet them, they shouldn't be allowed into office.
Your comment about why anyone with a brain would go into politics in Thailand was interesting because I felt like you weren't understanding how narcissism mediates the way psychopathy plays out. The psychopth who is also high on narcissism will *definitely* go into politics in Thailand - not only because the rewards scratch that particular itch, but also because you need some narcissism to think that it will be the other guy who gets killed. A psychopath with less narcissism will choose something where the costs are a little less, something that will allow them to hedge their bets. I don't know where the cutoffs are, but that's the dynamic.
What an interesting and engaging guy.
Now let's examine the future outcomes from the leadership directions of Florida vs California or Texas and NY to see what passing time says about top-down authoritarianism or bottom-up liberty? Because "those people" will be "those people".
Another Great interview!!
Regarding hierarchy, it isn't a man-made phenomenon. It's an integral part of nature's design. A great person to interview on the topic would be Professor Adrian Bejan at Duke University, Author of "Design in Nature" and "Freedom and Evolution" (30+ books and 650+ peer reviewed scientific papers). He's recieved numerous international awards for his work in Thermal Science and The Constructal Law.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. GREAT MEN ARE ALMOST ALWAYS BAD MEN, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. " [EMPHASIS Added] - John Dalberg-Acton, writing in 1870 in opposition to "papal infallibility" doctrine, per WIKI.
A lot of people do not know about the second part of this famous quotation. Thanks for emphasizing the key phrase.
@@dashrirprock . . . supposedly psychopaths are 1% of the population, and yet 4% of CEOs . . . presumably they are disproportionately represented in "great" positions BOTH because they are drawn to them AND because, in some cases, non-emotional (a.k.a. "heartless") leaders are desired, especially by profit oriented corporations. Unfettered capitalism is evil and creates inequities within its functioning. We NEED "checks and balances" but what are the odds that "good people" will have the where with all to enforce them ? :-s
@@solarnaut One of the things I Shermer promised to help resolve was the causality. DID the guest definitively say sociopaths are drawn to these occupations, or that the circumstances corrupt them?
Great work. World geopolitics 2022. hmmmmmm. from mtw in L.A.
"Who's drawn into politics?"
Well, I would be happy to make people's lives better. If anyone is qualified to make the best evidence based decisions then that guy is me... By all metrics, I'm a genius, I never cheated even on a school test in my whole life... Etc. Etc. Except... I earn far more than the prime minister in a career of IT. Why would I opt for more stress, more danger, more responsibilities and less pay?
The politician career is designed to attract the corrupt, because that's the way a competent person can make money in that field.
A politician is a machine whose purpose is to get elected. Very much like a paperclip maximizing machine. We should not forget that.
Michael, you’ll have to release “What a Pain” with a laugh track!
I had to chuckle at that title.
Can anyone become a better person when they become powerful? If we can count some examples, what happened to these people that changed them? There is the Kevin Costner flick Swing Vote, 2008. There are people who try to learn how to be a good leader as they gain power.
Poor people and the "powerless" are never corrupt.
When I hear of the petty neighborhood tyrants, I immediately think of Karens.
This episode reminds me of the story of John Newton (1725-1807) who was an investor in the slave trade and the captain of slave ships. To me, this represents the epitome human sociopathy second in scope to the Nazi death camps. However in juxtaposition, Captain Newton went on to become an abolitionist and penned the the powerful lyrics to the religious hymn Amazing Grace (1779). In doing so, I think he memorialized that he was a "wretch," but saved himself through a belief in religious dogma that lives on.
Is "term limits" a type of rotation?
Near the end of the podcast, a statement was made about the low homicide rate among chimpanzees compared with humans. While I don't disagree, I would point out that humans are extremely less violent in their day-to-day interactions. Chimpanzees regularly go upside each other's heads in their everyday dealings among themselves.
18:40 This sounds nice but almost universally the goal of a CEO/company/corporation/entrepeneur/institutions in general is to be profitible* and that's what's rewarded.
* In politics and, to a [slightly] lesser degree, not-profit-driven institutions** . In reality I don't see how corporations and institutions are not all the same thing.
** While institutions may not have exactly the same [profit] goals as corporations, in practice the results are the same. That is, they're based on power structures and, therefore, are corruptible.
Insightful interview. Can always count on Shermer for a serendipitous introduction to new intellectual realm. One minor quibble would be saying "psycopath" when "sociopath" would be more apropriate.
It's about a person's social circle, us versus them and sub circles within that circle. For instance Trump main circle consist of wealthy people, wealthy Caucasian male's, loyal wealthy Caucasian males, and so on.
Wait for the interview to warm up, till they talk about personal power traits. About ten to fifteen minutes in. 😊👌
Spot on about the bias / lies on the right ... so blind to the bias / lies on the left.
Both of them gave a pass to the corrupt mainstream news media, which are totally populated by leftist democrats, and kept attacking Trump and The Fox News Channel.
@@Seekthetruth3000 Agree. Michael is wise in so many ways but, like most progressives, he needs to dissociate himself from the hoi polloi... to signal his allegiance to the "compassionate" left. Sad!
@@Neworldisordered totally agree, he would be more popular is he was less biased.
You can develop empathy.
Isn’t everyone psychic at times in their lives
I would think it is clear that each human being living on the planet has not evolved to the same level of consciousness. Any hierarchical system is seemingly proof of that, so I could imagine to what I am capable of and thinking about, what would comprise the the truest sense of a human being and is that realizable for everyone?
It is the only way there will ever be peace on this planet, religions, “pseudo” religions, such as N. Korea and the rest of them out there will never get us to that point... I would think most who have obtained a PhD did not achieve this by belief and this will not happen likewise with a personal moral conduct internally. It is much more difficult than this as I am sure you realize, even when compared to remembering the patterns for that doctorate people achieve, which is no small undertaking. I do not think it could all be done in a million lifetimes let alone in just one lifetime, but that doesn't stop me personally from trying from a rational point of view, as I understand what the alternative is, we are living it. It can only happen by the individual.... it is the only way, and we are either primitives or there is a deeper truth about nature we will find out about with time.
Wait, did I miss the part where you complained about CNN?
Exactly! They have a bias in favor of the left.
Trump lies 1:01:07
Yea, I wish he would mention CNN along with Fox. Michael has a blind spot and lacks self awareness.
@@pepik39 If he was less biased he would have mentioned Biden also
Wow...a 15 yr recession of global democracy. Brian makes so many great points...democracy is a spectrum as is narcissism and liberalism, both which can be healthy, assuming the right context.
I like the "outside the box" idea of a "shadow congress" of wise "angels" who, at a minimum, makes motives behind policy choices transparent. Any degree of accountability would benefit the public narrative.
Regardless, better campaign finance laws AND enforcement is urgently neccesary and critical. Corruption is toxic and rampant in both public and private institutions.
I sincerely hope there is no 20 minute diatribe on QAnon or Trump..
Laura Ingram is a close friend Mr. Klaas? And you know what she could do to make herself into an entirely different person? Studied or practiced any clinical psychology?
Both of them have a bias in favor of the left.
@@Seekthetruth3000 Absolutely a truth.
You mean Laura Ingraham?! If she's too "lefty" for you, you might be more comfortable in North Korea
A utopian society would change all of that.
Is it just me, or does this interview seem to reveal nearly as much about the interviewer as it does about the topic?
Everyone ism psychic
Although the author has earnestly advised I think, but nevertheless, NATO, Amnesty International, etc are not paying attention to it in reality. For example, NATO does not give up its old fashioned hegemony and colonialism mind, while Amnesty International doesn't care about the tragedy of Palestine, not at all condemning Israel. Reality and idealism cannot and has never gone together in the all human history.
Algorithm.
Intro is way way too long.
🇺🇳1:14:08
Jordan Peterson was ahead of the curve on this.
Shermer goes along the 'pop' fads,
In all topics, leaving himself, as free from
Controversy as possible.
Which makes him often WRONG