Pathfinder's Newest Class the Necromancer is Really Cool!
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2025
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"learn a spell" is an exploration action. it lets you add a spell to your Dirge. just like a wizard or a witch can add spells to their spellbook or familiar.
Seconded. You can learn spells in addition to those you gain automatically from leveling up by using the "Learn a spell" activity is a lot. Why use many word when few word do trick.
Learn a Spell: "You can gain access to a new spell of your tradition..." (edited) but also "A spell you learn is added to your repository of spells, such as a spellbook for a wizard..." Since the Dirge is the Necromancer's repository of spells, then spells you learn are added to it.
I also want to add that the wizard is also written in the exact same way. The text about adding spells outside of levelup is has been moved from every prepared caster's individual repository feature and instead is part of learn a spell.
3:15 "They make their own corpses." Don't all adventurers?
People are theorizing (and the intro to the blog post for the playtest seems to be playing into) that the "Impossible" title is a reference to Golarion's Impossible Lands, that this might tie in to a story line where the Cold War between Geb (land of undead) and Nex (land of wizardry) heating up.
That would be my bet, yeah.
Was just coming here to say the same. Necromancer from Geb, Runesmith from Nex.
The Dirge is basically their spellbook.
"They just make their own corpses" well, I'm pretty sure evil necromancers do that too ;)
A evil necromancer go to this farm of slaved souls or living, all part of his propiety
I see this as very legal method
I wonder if a undead summoner archetyped into necromancer would be a fun character or not
Okay, so I'm sensing that this undead eidolon summon would be the boss of your undead army, so much so that they share your lifeforce with you, and don't just die in one hit 13:46
3:09 They can make their own corpses,
I'm pretty sure that's just murder.
Osteo Armaments seems so fun to me, even if it's not super strong looking- Just the idea of a Flesh Wizard reaching down a Zombie thrall's throat and morphing him into a flesh shotgun firing off blasts of teeth is just goofy and I love it
Exactly my take tbh. Are there more "meta" options? For sure. Am I gonna make an entire character based around that singular feat? Probably lmao
if I was your GM and you did this in game... I would be all mind-broken as I didn't even consider such possible... Then in terror I would find myself saying, "I allow it. this happens just like you said."🤮🤮
I think the point of the escape in dead weight is eventually you get stuff like create perfect thrall that actually has HP and won't instantly poof but can be used as a thrall for other abilties like dead weight.
Me an my dual class degenerate mind thinking of potential builds. Mix with Boundary Wizard for extra necromantic support. Same with Clerics and Bones Oracles. Animist for doubling down on ghost and spirit themes. Summoner for a dedicated undead summon. Also archetypes like Reanimator and Undead Master. So many really good options
Flesh Magician should really be called Carnomancer imo
Also its Thrall Enhancement is even more interesting with the special big boi thralls that can muck up more spaces when they die.
Isn't -mancer the one who uses something for divination? At least initially
Call it... Carnotheurge!
they're called both actually
Regarding extra autoscaling lore for classes. I would just make the extra lore from backrounds instead givr you additonal lore: x skill feat. Warrior background? Instead of notmal warfare lore, you gain additional lore feat for warfare lore. Etc.
I do this in my games.
Using Dead Weight on a Perfected Thrall is such a big brain move I love it. My personal critique is that I hope we get a feat or two that lets you gain more reactions, but only to use either Inevitable Return or another Necromancer reaction that destroys a thrall as part of its effect. Maybe even more reaction feats down the line and a feat that lets you combine Inevitable Return with a reaction feat at the same time (similar to some Champion feats) and destroy the thrall you create in that process. I think that would be a cool playstyle for this class.
15:41 Appreciate the character inspiration! Can't wait to bring him to the next game you run when this class drops!
I'm expecting the two playtest classes to be released in the new magic focused book that will supplant the original book that featured the magus and summoner(and have remastered versions of those two)
Yeah, kind of an updated combination of Secrets of Magic & Book of the Dead is what I've seen theorised
38:54 the escape is there is probably because of the Flesh Magicians thrall augment. If they kill the Dead Weight thrall they create difficult terrain.
Had the exact same impression about how this class might work in actual play; Unless you're going in on melee, the feats and spells really seem to encourage you to hunker down somewhere safe and stay there. Also I'm pretty sure it's a mistake and implied to happen normally, but I find it weird NONE of the focus spell feats mention you gain an extra point when you pick up the feat.
Isn't there a general rule stating that you gain a FP whenever you gain a new focus spell, capped at 3?
@@roberto-itait is
Honestly this pairs so well with Undead Master to spend the third action you use when "Move +Thrall"ing that i wish it had a feat line for an undead companion.
One way to play a caster who doesn't move is to find a way to get an animal companion with the mount trait. Once they are a Mature Animal Companion they get a free stride or strike every turn. You don't even get hit by reactive strikes because the player character isn't the one moving.
It's too bad there isn't an Undead Companion archetype and options for undead mounts 🧐
@@cordwartman The Undead Master archetype kind of does that, no? Though Necromancer has so many good feats, giving up 2 or 3 just feels terrible X) Ah well maybe the DM can be talked into the "Free Archetype" special rule.
@@ShikiRen I was being sarcastic :)
Yeah free archetype necromancer on a skeleton horse would be awesome.
@@cordwartman Ah! Whoops, my bad X) But yeah, that would be great. Although, skeleton horse and the scythe + bone weapon feat, might be a bit TOO on the nose...
".. and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him." Haha
Presumably it will deal with nex/geb and the impossible lands. Possibly a new war breaking out or an impossible lands character guide book.
The escape part of Dead Weight could be relevant for creatures that don't know your thrall can be automatically hit and only have 1 hit point.
I’m really excited for this class! The gameplay seems interesting and unique from other casters. Big flavour too!
A necromancer who's only friends are their undead family of thralls. They run into the party who adopts her and they all learn of family and friendship
First off, BLG, the Create Thrall spell specifically allows you to have a thrall strike an adjacent enemy as part of the creation, using your Spell Attack.
Second, I've got a concept for a Necromancer:
A Spirit Monger who worships Pharasma. "Oh, I don't create undead," they frequently explain, "I'm just summoning a few spirits waiting in line at the Boneyard."
If they could get a free cast of Summon Thrall on Initiative, I think that could really help with the issue of needing so much set up. Kinda like how they gave barbarian a free rage.
I have been wanting an occult necromancer for over a decade.
The two classes I most wanted in the game are occult prepared necromancer and a martial death knight class that used runes (yes Warcraft 3 had a massive influence on my life). Now I can play both. (The latter by playing a skeleton runesmith or combining runesmith with one of the undead archetypes from Book of the Dead.)
So a champion archetype necromancer?
@@Solrex_the_Sun_King For Death Knight? I think the best way to do it with current existing rules is a Runesmith with Mummy archetype, taking Channel Rot and choosing arctic terrain for Storm Shroud. But I will probably make a homebrew class archetype for Runelord once the book is out..
So excited for this class!
I like the concept, but I feel like necromancer could really use something like tandem movement or a way to move and cast a grave cantrip/spell (And some way to move the regular thralls from Create Thrall). Some other touch ups too, but overall, I really love the class' mechanics. Especially Living Graveyard, just seems like so much fun to use!
The whole arent minions with the summoned trait thing can be summed up in two words -
Final Sacrifice.
They didn't want that spell being used with thralls.
i would love to be in a campaign where an aninmist and a spirit monger necro were in a party, and listen to their converstations.
Perhaps they should add an action economy feat or feature that allows the necromancer to stride/step when creating a thrall, incentivize more movement
I think what a lot of people are missing is how strong "Create a Thrall" actually is. Seen a few suggestions of bonus actions like Stride/Step when creating a thrall.
For ONE action:
Creates one or more BODIES on the field that an enemy has to go around
Whether they hit for 1 or 100 to kill a thrall, that's an action not used on your team
They can FLANK
In the SAME action 1 thrall can attack (not hard hitting, but amazing given all the extras I listed)
If they survive, you also have them staged for future abilities. Or you can create and blow them up on the same turn
@@OutwardThinker nothing in that says you can't add action economy in a feat, quite the opposite... The action is so good that it disincentivizes movement or other third action options. There's a discussion to be had about the level of the feat for balance, but still valid
the dirge is just a spellbook. it’s worded a bit weird but it is just a spellbook
I’m playing a necromancer in 5e and would love to switch over to PF2 and try this guy out
Regarding Mastery of Life and Death.
I feel like this is actually something that needs better wording. most spells that deal Vitality/Void damage have specific wording regarding their targeting.
It does not mention that spells like Rip the Spirit and Void Warp can be used against undead despite targeting living creatures specifically.
Infact basically every void/vitality trait spell on the occult list has this issue in where they either just doesn't allow undead/living targets, or changes their behavior so they would not deal damage in the first place.
Holy....Unholy Lord! I love this class already!
I would play it as summoning creatures from the boneyard of phrasama's domain
Necros get bored of simply raising undead thralls; they experiment with their art by mangling, twisting and fusing fragments of the dead. What is a necro without a stable of wagons, coaches, siege weapons, and a fleet of Ships made of bones, sinew, and hide? What necro doesn't build a castle with four towers (fingers) a minaret (thumb) and a colossal skull (as the palm and wrist)?
The Necromancer is super cool
I think I would prefer a bounded spellcaster with 3/3 slots instead of 2/2 or this listing, but other than that god I adore the class already. It's very funny looking and fun.
Also, maybe it's because I'm not old school or I'm used to world of darkness games, but like, necromancy isn't evil? Like ESPECIALLY in pathfinder 2e where back when it was a school Heal was there? Like, what is necromancy if not a different vector of medicine? It's easy to imagine a nurse, warden, or manager who just happens to have a lot of bones around.
If your thralls can be used for flanking, god that'd be soooo nutty and fun. If not, dang, at least we got summoning undead
Trust me on this, Necromancy is EVIL... every bit as EVIL as forcing an 8-year-old to wake up at 0600, dress, (WITHOUT BREAKFAST, WITHOUT COFFEE), only then to death march you through four blocks through a winter blizzard... only then to slip and get tongue stuck/frozen to the door of the classroom... then discover that the school is closed until the blizzard blows over, say five days. No one is there. No one will help you.
Necromancy does exactly that. It forces you to "Wake up" and makes you do "slave labor". trust me. Necromancy is EVIL.
The problem with the old spells was that they were forced to fit one of the nine schools of magic, which explained why a divine caster can summon a heroic feast and why wizards Can't heal. Healing used to be conjuration; it was only recently changed to necromancy to add all those healing spells to one of the shortest lists of spells. morgues, mortuaries, mosoleums... I doubt anyone with an IQ above that of plants would mistake these as a "Hospital".
Necromancy the school wasn't Evil, creating undead was. At least in a Cosmic scale. Every time a undead is created the River of Souls is unmade and the Universe shifts a needle closer to the End of Times. That's why 99% of "good" deities and a big chunk of even neutral gods doesn't see undead with good eyes.
@@valvadis2360 wrong. Necromancy is claiming the power of death for yourself, for your mortal hands to wield like a melodramatic teen chunibyo (SP) who thinks life is an anime and only they matter.
Arrogance, ego, and self-righteousness are all EVIL or result in EVIL.
@@valvadis2360 wrong. Necromancy is claiming the power of death for yourself, for your mortal hands to wield like a melodramatic teen chunibyo (SP) who thinks life is an anime and only they matter.
Arrogance, egotism, narcissism, hedonism, and self-righteousness are all EVIL or result in EVIL.
I double check the wording with what it says on nethys for the wizard and it has the same wording.
The Necromancer needs ways to fight with their thralls that don't sacrifice them or let them be better at making undead minions than the normal options. Minion-mancer may not be every table's cup of tea but for those who like to use armies of the dead the option should be in the system in a viable capacity. I was so disappointed that the necromancer class doesn't shore up that weakness in the system.
Reclaim Power could be killer out of combat. Drop a bunch of thralls to just heal yourself to full in like a half an hour.
Because perfected thrall and walking graveyard are "thralls" aren't they immune to crits because they are automatically hit and the enemy doesnt roll.
Impossible as in The Impossible Lands, the area around Nex and Geb.
Flesh Magician definitely sounds like an OF handle. Lol. They should change it for sure.
About deadweight. Im not that versed in the system, but perhaps the escape is there for some odd interractions with effects that make you unable to strike? (Idk if those exist but think sanctuary from 5e.)
Finally i can make my loner character....
WITH ALL THE (explosive) FRIENDS HE WANTS!!!!!
7:21 like a wizard or witch? Or maybe like a magus but with more then 4 spell slots? If you’re complaining that you have to make a pool of prepared spells before preparing, all prepared spellcasters except Druid and cleric have that problem (unless you also referring to have one less slot per rank?)
Create Thrall:
1 per action at level 1
2 per action starting level 3
3 per action starting level 7
4 per action starting level 15
And since it is a one action spell you can spam it 3 times per round
It does not scale based on your Undead Lore skill, BUT your spellcasting ability. So level increases at 7 - 15 - 19
@@roberto-ita I stand corrected, that makes the class a lot weaker.
@@pascalmanders5781Weak casters mechanic is Paizo Trademark ™️
the necromancer need something that they can use their thralls on that isnt linked to focus points
max of 5 rounds, My gm gave us a simple encounter that lasted 8 rounds because not a single one of us rolled over a 10 for the entire fight while he rolled 7 crits in a row on us.
Good content. I should review these classes.
I'd love to see a Plantmancer option that swaps Occult spells for Primal and removes the Master of Life and Death feature.
Something for the parties with a follower of Pharasma, Gozreh, or Sarrenrae.
I thought about this Idea slightly differently: Replace the word Thrall with *TOTEM*, call the class "Shamman," and reword class features and feats to be aligned with Spiritual Shammans. We have druids, barbarians, and rangers, only fitting to have a primitive origin of the Wizard... The Totem shaman.
Honnestly, I would have liked a "Bones" Kineticist to oppose the Wood's ones aesthetic, it would probably Feel like the Necromancer Playtest, so I suppose the phytomancer would kindna Feel like a Wood Kineticist
Necromancer is one of my favorite classes though I’ve never found a table top game do the class justice. Then saying a necromancer is evil is dumb. I personally do play evil more than not to the annoyance of any low imaginative gm lol my most good I am willing is neutral because in real life I can’t be selfish as much. lol being about power is just fun
I wouldn’t call them a full caster.
They have a reduced number of slots and have a heavy focus on focus cantrip and focus spells.
It's a focus caster.
Second lol
Anyways this play test does sound really fun. I'm personally looking forward to the rune smith.
I'm confused why the Thrall attacks would use YOUR multiple attack penalty. Animal companions or other pets don't, so wouldn't thralls fit into that category? since they act on thier own?
Nevermind. I misread the information where the thralls don't have thier own actions
maybe i am just crazy but if I got something that lets me keep a bodyguard on duty like the body shield one I will be keeping one up every min spawn that thing on a cart wheel it ahead make it jump in front of a attack or become a spear for me
If they make thrall actually undead instead of ducking totem and change to Arcane could be good
👍👍👍
7:21 like a wizard?
escaping is better than strike sometimes because of MAP
Escape still has the Attack trait which will affect MAP.
Aren't the Undead powered, in part, by souls? Like, the difference between a Zombie and a Flesh Golem is the force that moves the Zombie is part of the dead persons soul.
Do you know why they call him the Magician? He makes bodies disappear.
I laughed too hard at the idea of a magician pulling a skinned rabbit out of a hat 🤣.
What kills me (pun intended) is that there are martial feats in there with terrible support. Light armor and simple weapons max out as expert at level 11! Have fun spending a feat slot for a whiffest
I think Flesh magician could be retooled as a martial build by gaining med armor and normal martial weapon progress, but lose the ability to have a thrall attack on creation for balance. Based on the other feats for FM, it makes the most sense.
So we have necromancers that don't create undead apart from a weird cantrip spell construct that just stand around and do...nothing...erm ..what? Like how is this the animanting the corpses of your enemies fantasy?
I kinda hate gish options are almost lacking. You basically wait from 4 lvl untill 18 lvl for next option, which is insane, since your weapon proficiency sucks
Definitely disagree on the naming convention. Overusing the "-mancer" suffix when the class is already called the "Necromancer" doesnt really gel. But Flesh Magician gives creepy and unsettling vibes. Less a funtime slight of hand magician and a more ominous, doing what they shouldnt be able to do type magician 😂
I'm mot sure why you are comparing this class learning spells at level up to a spontaneous caster.
Spontaneous casters add one spell per new spell slot (see Sorcerer). Prepared casters add 2 spells to their repository of known spells at each kevel (see Witch and Wizard).
The Necromancer learns new spells at each level just like other prepared casters, not spontaneous casters.
am i missing something from his description of necromancer casting or is he just wildly overthinking/misunderstanding it? it reads just like any other prepared caster's description...
Perspiring ... ??
oh.....the class is for.....5e Pathfinder.......gross.....well thats a complete and total let down.
First!😀
Necromancy is evil at its base as it also uses and corrupts souls to animate.
Typically zombies and skeletons are excluded from this as every source I can find claims the animating process uses either no soul or such a minute amount that it does not interefere with the souls afterlife, merely imprinting small peices of personality.
so thralls, at least basic ones, mostly seem to sidestep that.