My partner is an ex football referee and he says that the covering defender rule is a variation on the DOGSO rule in football. Where if a foul is committed and there's a chance of a goal no matter what the foul is the defending player must be sent off
What about the inconsistency of the refereeing? Why Beirne's tackle on Fusco is considered play on despite being an high tackle on the head area and with lesser mitigating circumstances than Faiva one since he hasn't even done the effort of getting low and Fusco didn't lowered his body position?
Amen. Also Nigel explaining at 08:23 that the French tackler caught Price on the hand and that it's therefore only a penalty, when Sheehan also held his hand between his body and Faiva...
It's sad that the answer is in the video. As Nigel says, the attitude has to change. Now the quest is "will be referees able to make those decisions in important game or will they just make them on the teams that have no way to be on top?". Imagine if there was a red like that on the game played at Paris between French and Irland, there would be a global scandal on journals, even arguing how the referee had made a call that killed the 6nations competition without even a moment of consideration. That's the problem. It's easy to say "we have to change attitude of the players" for a game in wich Irland would had won even if they were 14 vs 15, it is not when your choice can "decide" your career. Sad.
The Georgian referee and Wayne Barnes are 2 of the greatest referees in Rugby but Nigel Owens is the greatest ever. I watch compilations on Nigel Owens greatest quotes all the time.
@@WorldRugby didn’t take enough advantage but quite frankly we were as confused as Italy were and started second guessing ourselves. That’s why we saw sexton brought on to enforce concentration, he’s certainly an intimidating general on the pitch
@@gigiproiettili8985 I know you feel that way and it’s hard to argue with feelings and it also goes to the emotion and all that comes with it. But….every team at some point in the. 6N feels that they have been hard done by. It’s just a fact. I can guarantee you pretty much all the English fans felt like wales got away with murder last year when they beat us. We couldn’t believe the decision making. Every replay reinforced belief. But it just happens. It’s tough but that’s just how it goes. Stay strong!! I wish you guys well against Scotland this weekend.
So Faiva tackled high, ok. Furlong cleaned Faiva in the same action with shoulder to the head, and it's ok? Or Beirne shoulder to the face of Fusco without even a penalty? Total inconsistency from the referee and the TMO. Two measures.
Disagree Nigel. The Irish player was preparing for the hit by bending over, which brought his kneck into contact with the Italy player. I don't disagree that the hit was high and therefore some punishment (penalty) would be appropriate, but his shoulders satyed contest & the Ireland player initiated the kneck contact. If you don't beleive me, than watch the replay carefully
Nigel, legend. Problem is not so much the reasons for the dismissal but the damage such incidents as the Italy 13-man game do to the integrity of the sport.
If the TMO caught Haivas red card because they have all this equipment why did they not check the the red card offence from the Irish player on Fusco that was much worse
I am glad we all get the best of both with Nigel offering comments and insights, while he can enjoy his retirement. All be it a different "retirement" in running a farm etc. Cheers Nigel. Very much appreciated
I totally agree, and i don't understand why they are doing this. Italy is a very poor team, always losing by an average of 30 points and with no chance of winning, they shouldn't play also against the referees
I don't care what Nigel speaks of, but it sounds like law to me! I could listen to him talk about any subject and, fortunately for all of us, his top-level expertise is the game we all love. Great game, great man, keep it coming Nigel!
Stuart Hogg scored a try against Italy yesterday which to me seemed to be a result of a clear forward pass. Could you clear this up for me. Kind regards, John Bradshaw (England)
Nigel, Could you comment on the first sending off in the Scotland-France U20 game last week. Isn't the speed at which the two players came together, and the angle of approach of the Scottish player, a mitigation? A yellow seemed fairer to me. It felt to me that if it was a red, then one of the two players going for the ball was going off. It was just a question of who got there first.
It might have been the rules that Italy had to go down to 13, but it made the Irish v Italy game uncompetitive and totally one sided and a complete farce…….The rules for Rugby Union have been messed about with far too much and it has made watching rugby union games boring…..
I’d have been miffed if I’d shelled out for tickets n travel for my family to the game, lost internet after that booking, that law needs modified for the good of the fans as well as the game. Hope it’s looked into.
@@brucemitch928 If we can get teams to stop cheating, it's a moot point. The fact is teams had been using injuries to force uncontested scrums; there's a big suspicion France did it vs Wales in the 6N a few years ago, so it's not just smaller countries or domestic matches. I guess the only thing to do would be to say if the card comes after the initial injury, then you don't lose another player? There still might be times where a team is getting battered in the scrum could deliberately get a red, thinking that 14 with but uncontested scrums is better than 15 and constantly giving up penalties
@@chrispainter827 Yep, agree with what your saying, the point i was making is that after fan free games for two years and the anticipation of a great game, it was was ruined by this law…. plus for me personally I’ve a 10hr round trip drive to the nearest national stadium, not only the game but fans need to be taken into consideration.
Shame the actual game play isnt been shown for the incidents discussed. Impossible to get a proper understanding of the points being discussed and so loses so much educational value.
The fact that it took ages to explain, means that rugby has lost its way. You shouldn't need a degree to follow a game where the premise is to get an oval ball from one end of a pitch to the other.
Look after the second freeze frame and the welsh no 1 - easy to see he has his back to the camera - clearly gone through the line out - the welsh second row has also gone over MI space - who jumps up no across... Worth finding some other angles.
Just found this and l'm glad l did. Nigel you are a legend. The balls l played with were a different shape to yours but I always respected the way rugby referees managed games and the respect players give them. You were right at the top of that tree. I think football could learn a lot from rugby and the way referees and TMO'S communicate and l am really surprised that VAR doesn't seem to work as well. Maybe with time it will. Many thanks for your service to rugby and l look forward to seeing your analysis on UA-cam.
Nigel is STILL the same as he was when he graced the field of play. Clear, concise and let's EVERYBODY know how he sees it and made his decision. Surely the best ever.
Surely with the 13 players situation it would be possible to write a rule based on the order that the incidents happened in. If the injury is the second one then yes maybe there's a risk of faking. If the red card is the second one then it's clearly an external event unrelated to the scrum. That's a clearcut difference you could write into the law that doesn't even need the referee's judgement
Yes it has to be a significant drop in height rather then a dip for bracing. had the tackler made more of an effort to go lower then it could have been argued as mitigation, but as he tacked upright it would be very difficult for referees to deem it a significant drop in height
@@aidieslater8351 it could be considered a mix of both Faiva standing upright and anyway trying to make a fair tackle and Sheehan carrying the ball in an "angled" position - ok, tenth of a second for the whole thing...I thought Tmo could had been more merciful
@@giovanniciappelli2659 yes I agree it's not fair. But in that situation the tackler is always going to be at most fault because he is a tackler and not tackling low. That's just how it works across the board, and the other way round I wouldn't argue otherwise. It was clear within the new laws, sadly
Nigel I have a more general question. On Squidge rugby and other places I saw the suggestion that England had done its research on the two assistant refs (line judges). On one side of the paddock they would close lines and disrupt the line out and then be squeaky clean on the other. Refs are human beings and there will always be inconsistency, so we are used to a picture being painted for the main ref, how do you feel about teams doing analysis on the assistants? The job is not getting any easier.
I played over the weekend and the ref hated us all that much that at the end his watch goes of and I was playing scrum half and I asked him is this last play and he said no there about 5 minutes left and then after the scrum he blew the whistle and ended the game is this right as it cause my u18s or league
They didn’t, Scotland pushed early France couldn’t bring him down. And does that really matter when Scotland was barely a sparring partner and the game wasn’t one by 7 points ?
@@adamcarreras-neal4697 if that was the case it would have been penalty lol… ever see a ref warn a team for a penalty offense while it happens under his eyes ? No he penalizes when it’s the case, guess it wasn’t
Every game Italy is involved with ,the TMO check and double check every tackle every try every pass and every lineout a little bit more than another teams in the 6N … why’s that Nigel?
I was at Murrayfield and every Scotsman was baying for the refs blood on several occassion during the match. Great content again and well done for being so mature with your comments on that jammy English try
as far as i onderstood the ref and as far as i have seen it, it seems to be that the majority of the collision is body/body; body/ legs and the hand into the face had no force behind it (Jaminet even tries to pull it back); you can see Skinner grabbing his ribs/abdomen? after the collision showing where the force went. TMO and ref deem it contact in air (both jumping; Skinner with ball) --> only penalty
@@RB-xc9wg but how can say that Jaminet had a legitimate chance of catching the ball? Thank you for the explanation, I still think though that jumping into an opponent is not in the rules of the game
@@callumduncan2561 correct me if im wrong but i said: "TMO and ref deem it contact in air" which is just an illegal tackle more or less --> penalty; i didnt say he had a chance to catch the ball, he was way too late
Surely a chip kick, or a grubber can be deemed a knock-on then? In either situation, the ball is lost forward and then kicked. In the case of a drop-kick, the ball actually touches the ground before being kicked. Maybe you would like to reconsider your reply on this one?
The devil's in the detail. 'Lost control' doesn't mean 'no longer has it in possession' but more a case of 'no longer in control of what is happening'. With a grubber kick, chip kick or a drop goal, the action is deliberate. You plan to release the ball, you plan to kick it. That's not a knock on because there's no loss of control over what you're doing. if you didn't have control of it and you kick it after it hit/touched you. If you deliberately mean to let go and kick it, but miss the kick and it bounces, that's a knock on too, because you lost control when you missed the kick.
FIFA and other related orgs refusing to admit mistakes or say refs or var decsions were wrong or missed. fear of failure. World rugby, posts a video on their youtube channel with an ex ref saying x might need to be looked at and x was missed or wrong. part of the reason why i love rugby is the progression desire is there, yeah they make mistakes or get things wrong but they try to make it right and fix it. keep up the integrity and progression.
@@callum5855 Not irrelevant at all ,if the ref had not called on field that he thought the tackle was high and instead instructed the TMO to look at any mitigation the card would have been a yellow , the ref's position was wrong for him to declare a high tackle as he could not clearly see and his lack of instruction to TMO was slack at best . Spoiled the game as a contest
@@rapid1010 he is indeed standing high but if you rewind the piece to where Dan Sheehan is 2 strides away the tackler has decided to tackle at that height and would have been ok what he didn't anticipate was Sheehan dipping and lowering the target area
He dipped to brace but becasue the tackler made the tackle stood upright and made little effort to tackle lower there would be no way, unless the drop was a lot more significant, that mitigation would have come into it. Thats why it is 100% the correct call with these modern laws (which i personally think need to be changed to be more lenient for the goodness of the game)
As a player now all u have to do know is whn u see a player commited to the tackle before u take it just dip down into his should and u can get him sent off. I think the reffs.need to start looking at the player with the balls body position. Imagen ur ur 6.4 and a scrum half at 5.9 is runing at u ducks down frm ur tack and ur shoulder catches his head . Wht chance have u got ur already trying to get lower thn normal to tackle him.
The red card was ok. Only the following decision (13 men) on the field was just surprising and since most of us are not referees, we did not understand. Thanks "Sir Nigel Owens" for explaining 🙂. It's just unfair because these weird occasions are always "against" small teams like Italy and it really does not help them to understand and develop. (they might need to hire a referee like Jerome Garces is doing if they don't have one yet). Maybe something should be changed here (but I don't know exactly why) For the Eng-Wal issue, there is always a little bit of discussion. In my opinion, refs are usually quite "nice" with some teams. Some players have been allowed a lot of things and they are always at the limit and they are doing it "well" . But this is really frustrating for us fans because we can see all on TV with a lot of "experts" explaining/showing while the refs are on the field and do not see the whole picture (Even the TMO has not an easy job to do under pressure) I think there is still some place for improvement. In addition, there is also the interpretation of the rules which are still different "between the north and the south" . But still great sport, I still like it (my blood pressure not 😀)
I've come to the conclusion that Nige doesn't like Scotland, having seen several vids where he doesn't side with us. This includes the last one where Finn was carded in spite of being hit before he was able to attempt a catch (I'd say that was a decent example of mitigating factors) then he agreed with the Scottish player being high tackled but the Welsh player not being penalised - I've seen him card players for less. Never mind, I've always got mostly good memories of him reffing (Celtic park aside).
That uncontested scrums rule is just such nonsense Also, during the France - Scotland game. The French were awarded a penalty for being tackled at the lineout, the ref then told them off for holding their player up but then proceeded to award them a penalty for it happening again later
For Price's high tackle, I think you need to look at it more sequentially. Price would have scored for sure if Aldritt had not held it up. Aldritt only just managed this....fingertip stuff. Given that Price's movement was restricted by the high tackle, and that Aldritt only just managed to hold it up, that suggests that Price would have scored if he was not high tackled despite the late presence of Aldritt. Decision should have been penalty try and yellow card.
You're so sweet, with your knowing opinion, giving advice to The Man on how to view the incident, can I just as how many international rugby matches you have refereed? 🤨
I want to get Nigel's opinion on something. Should rugby have a player review system like cricket? Where a them has 2 or 3 reviews per game and they can use a review to force the ref and TMO to take a closer look at something.
Everyone who played Wales last year were... Ireland had a red v Wales for a high tackle as did 3 other matches. Insanely good luck for Wales last year. Played 14 men 4 out of 5 games... Bunde akis red was in particular a joke nowhere near as high as the Italy one which i thought was soft but hearing nigel explain it I understand
So Italy started with 15 Starting hooker got injured, had to be replaced. Still 15. Replacement hooker gets red card. Down to 14. Must bring on a forward and take off a back. 13 now because of what happened in the past? Even though Italy didn't do anything sus
It's so unfortunate, the rule was obviously brought in for a legitimate reason to stop teams forcing uncontested scrums but in this case it is clear there has been an error in execution.
@@WorldRugby It should just be uncontested scrums all the time now..nobody wants to watch collapsed scrums over and over again followed by a decision that most of the time has no real basis on whats happening in the scum..lose it or fix it, scrums used to be a competitive interesting part of the game..now they just seem like a waste of time that is going to put any new fans off the sport
@@hub-p4g Or just keep the clock off from the whistle for the offence/mistake, until the ball leaves the 9's hands at the put in. Then we'll see how much time they waste but also have pretty much a full 80 minutes available for rugby (not watching forwards on the floor having a rest and water boys/head coaches on the field for 30 seconds before every scrum forms).
Surely all they need to do is make a small amendment to the law so that the carded player is counted as the player "removed" as the punishment for the side forcing the depowered scrums?
You use the term:- ‘Not the worst of high tackles.’ We all know that red cards, are being dished out for silly little brushes of the collar bone, and on other occasions many are being overlooked. With the officials making such a hard statement regarding ‘high contact’ then the rules ought to stand hard, come what may. The trouble is, that so often the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, so, as such admit that it needs to be reviewed as a whole and get it all sorted quickly. Supporters are travelling long distances at great cost to see a spectacle of rugby, not some unbalanced game of chase. No one wants to see players injured at any level, that is not the argument. Just an aside:- How many forward passes go unnoticed by match officials in any one game? I reckon at least 3, many of which lead to tries 2 or 3 moves down the line. Being a ref yourself, you must see them as well, when you’re watching a match. What’s to be done?
New rules - big blokes are not allowed to just charge into each other. It’s a foolhardy player that’s going for the knees of 125kg charging towards him. It’s a contact sport, people will get hurt. Comparing dangers, check out the Winter Olympics!😳
Should the welsh try have been allowed. throughout the game the ref had called back all tap and go attempts, then he allows a welsh tap and go, and the ref is not even looking at where the welsh player took the tap and go from, the ref had his back to the player, the ref even looked a bit shocked when the welsh player went past him. Just one to be added to the litany of inexplicable decisions made by supposed impartial refs in games involving England. My personal view is that these refs do not even consider themselves to be partial.
I'm still a bit unclear on why Italy had to go down to 13 men. I understand the injury and red card and the requirement for a front row player to come on for the next scrum. All good. In order for a for a front row player to come on in these circumstances someone else has to go off. Italy took off a winger to bring on a front row forward so that they still had a full complement of forwards even though he wasn't an experienced hooker, but the ref made them take off the no. 8 as well and this is what I don't understand. If Italy hadn't made the substitution (prop for winger) and had just taken off one of the back row, would they have been allowed to keep 14 men on the pitch? After all it was just one player that was sent off. This is why I don't think this decision was fair, and it ruined the match. Also would like some clarity on this point: if the game goes to uncontested scrums do both teams have to keep 8 forwards, so why is it necessary for a back row to go off, why not one of the backs?
Yeah this bit wasn't explained clearly! hopefully I can help a bit. This is how the order goes and the laws behind it. i) There's a red card to the replacement hooker, making an initial ratio of 7:7 forwards to backs. Front rower Nemer comes on for a back (making it 8:6) but is no hooker, so the inherent player welfare risk of him trying forces uncontested scrums. This has been seriously underplayed in the reporting, but it's a huge reason for the rule. A makeshift hooker is an accident waiting to happen, so uncontested scrums were inevitable. ii) There's an automatic penalty of one player being removed if a team forces uncontested scrums, because an opposition can't tire you out with heavy scrum work against your technically weakened pack. Anything else would either be a welfare risk in a full contested scrum, or unfairly penalise the side that's caused no infringement with not allowing them to scrummage but having no recompense for that. So Italy go from 15, to 14 for the red and finally to 13 for forcing uncontested scrums. iii) Under the laws of the game, uncontested scrums MUST have eight players in them, to stop teams losing a man in a pointless scrum to help plug holes in a defensive line. That forces an 8:5 ratio. iv) So why the number 8? Technically it doesn't HAVE to be the number 8. However, when an uncontested scrum happened, Italy was going to have an 8:5 ratio regardless of who's on the pitch, so they might as well turn the Number 8 into a utility player and not a specialist. Far better to have a nimble back who doesn't need to push at 8, who can whip off the scrum and plug the gaps in the line and then cover more ground quicker, than a traditional Number 8 who can't scrummage anyway and who also can't cover the ground quickly to help defend the line. So it's a case of 8:5 at the scrum, but then 7:6 the rest of the time, giving you a better hope of defending or even attacking quickly. I agree it feels harsh. But there's no real way around it. There were instances where teams were using the substitutions to force uncontested scrums if they were getting battered in them and that's not fair. If there's no extra penalty, I could also conceive of a team manufacturing a red card to a hooker if it meant uncontested scrums to save the energy that would be burnt in the scrum for defending the line. They are rules brought in to stop teams cheating. If we could only stop them doing that, it'd make the ref's game a lot easier!
Hi Nigel, Related to the results years after years. Do you think Italy should be part of the 6 Nations? And would it be more interesting of organising "some kind" of tournament selecting the best European rugby team to be selected as the sixth Nation to play ? Thank you. Much respect ref.🙏👌🇨🇵🏴🇪🇺
I really like that idea, but I'm sure the club's would not be happy, most especially the club's of the players that end up in the winning team. That's a lot of time to have your talent tied up in internationals and a lot of games where your talent could be injured....
@@MKR5210 I understand but it would be about the best teams among the best in the North hemisphere . It would make it even more interesting. Unknown prodigies from undermined countries would have the opportunity to be acknowledged. Exiting. Who says there is not another Dupont like, in new coming rugby nation?👌🙏
Yes owen we do need to talk about the England game and what a beauty it was, England wins and wales prove yet again why their our most beloved rugby rivals worthy of Englands Equal 😁
@@Scottie-Jonno they are, 39 six/five/home nation titles each if my memory serves me. Only difference between England vs Wales is one world cup and 5 or 6 wins in Englands favour. Wales do fantastic considering their shortcomings in terms of player choice, club scene, infrastructure.
@@taffyducks544Are you seriously gonna pull out that card? Wales have so many foreign born players... They have a huge amount of players to pick from in England...
Nige is fantastic but let me add another voice to to complain about the dreadful and unnecessary music. Turn it off for goodness sake! Nige is excellent but let me add another voice to complain about the dreadful and unnecessary music. Turn it off. We don’t need it. We need to hear Nige!
Nice cows Nigel. They look health. So if a knock on is when someone looses control, how the heck did Rees-Zammit get awarded the try at Cardiff last year?
Nigel, I wonder if you think player safety around concussions is being treated seriously enough at the moment? Just looking at the games England have taken part in so far we had the farce with Jack Nowell initially and then last weekend the Tomas Francis incident. What more can or should be done, or what needs to change?
What did you think of the weekends action? Let us know in the comments
How come you are replying the the comments on Fusco. the ref said the TMO would be checking
I think that the ref should have had a look on the TMO to review the lineout in the England vs Wales match.
My partner is an ex football referee and he says that the covering defender rule is a variation on the DOGSO rule in football. Where if a foul is committed and there's a chance of a goal no matter what the foul is the defending player must be sent off
What about the inconsistency of the refereeing? Why Beirne's tackle on Fusco is considered play on despite being an high tackle on the head area and with lesser mitigating circumstances than Faiva one since he hasn't even done the effort of getting low and Fusco didn't lowered his body position?
Amen. Also Nigel explaining at 08:23 that the French tackler caught Price on the hand and that it's therefore only a penalty, when Sheehan also held his hand between his body and Faiva...
It's sad that the answer is in the video. As Nigel says, the attitude has to change.
Now the quest is "will be referees able to make those decisions in important game or will they just make them on the teams that have no way to be on top?". Imagine if there was a red like that on the game played at Paris between French and Irland, there would be a global scandal on journals, even arguing how the referee had made a call that killed the 6nations competition without even a moment of consideration.
That's the problem. It's easy to say "we have to change attitude of the players" for a game in wich Irland would had won even if they were 14 vs 15, it is not when your choice can "decide" your career.
Sad.
Because it was chest on chest.
@@cathalsheehan9596 it was chest on head.
@@MorAodhan I know you want to believe that but sadly for you that isnt the case, chest on chest hence why there was no sanction.
Nigel Owens. The man is a total legend
The Georgian referee and Wayne Barnes are 2 of the greatest referees in Rugby but Nigel Owens is the greatest ever.
I watch compilations on Nigel Owens greatest quotes all the time.
I think Maro Itoje learned that smile from the many times he saw it on AWJ's face.
Brilliant analysis Nigel, best overview after every big games talking points.
As an Irish supporter I thought the sending off was a bit harsh but who am I to disagree with greatest refferee ever
How do you feel Ireland performed over the weekend despite being against 13 for a large period?
@@WorldRugby didn’t take enough advantage but quite frankly we were as confused as Italy were and started second guessing ourselves. That’s why we saw sexton brought on to enforce concentration, he’s certainly an intimidating general on the pitch
@@WorldRugby can you explain why every referee is strictier with italy then with every other team?
@@gigiproiettili8985 I know you feel that way and it’s hard to argue with feelings and it also goes to the emotion and all that comes with it. But….every team at some point in the. 6N feels that they have been hard done by. It’s just a fact. I can guarantee you pretty much all the English fans felt like wales got away with murder last year when they beat us. We couldn’t believe the decision making. Every replay reinforced belief. But it just happens. It’s tough but that’s just how it goes. Stay strong!! I wish you guys well against Scotland this weekend.
Nice videos but the nonstop music is quite annoying when we are trying to hear what you are saying.
The occasional cow moo and rain on tin roof would be fine. Almost Jack Hargreves. “Out of Town”
So Faiva tackled high, ok. Furlong cleaned Faiva in the same action with shoulder to the head, and it's ok?
Or Beirne shoulder to the face of Fusco without even a penalty?
Total inconsistency from the referee and the TMO.
Two measures.
So true
Thanks Nigel & World Rugby for doing these post-everything breakdowns. Rugby can be a complex game for sure, and we trust Nigel to tell it how it is!
Been waiting all week to get your explantation of the Italian situation. Thanks Nigel 😀 really enjoy watching your recaps. Great work.
It was such a confusing moment for many of us!
Thanks Nigel for the very clear and comprehensive explanation.
Disagree Nigel. The Irish player was preparing for the hit by bending over, which brought his kneck into contact with the Italy player. I don't disagree that the hit was high and therefore some punishment (penalty) would be appropriate, but his shoulders satyed contest & the Ireland player initiated the kneck contact. If you don't beleive me, than watch the replay carefully
Nigel, legend. Problem is not so much the reasons for the dismissal but the damage such incidents as the Italy 13-man game do to the integrity of the sport.
If the TMO caught Haivas red card because they have all this equipment why did they not check the the red card offence from the Irish player on Fusco that was much worse
A pleasure to hear Nigel speak about the new rules and disputed penalties etc.. truly a great Ref, perhaps even the GOAT
If not Nigel, then who?
Yeah, I met him at a Farmer's show, great lad, really nice man to talk to as well, love him.
I am glad we all get the best of both with Nigel offering comments and insights, while he can enjoy his retirement. All be it a different "retirement" in running a farm etc. Cheers Nigel. Very much appreciated
We need you back so bad.. Come back for the world cup 🙏.. Someone should start something to get him back 🙏🙏
Whistle Watch or on the field... I don't know which I prefer
Nigel I don’t think it’s deliberate but year after year refs apply the laws more strictly against Italy than other teams
I totally agree, and i don't understand why they are doing this. Italy is a very poor team, always losing by an average of 30 points and with no chance of winning, they shouldn't play also against the referees
I don't care what Nigel speaks of, but it sounds like law to me! I could listen to him talk about any subject and, fortunately for all of us, his top-level expertise is the game we all love. Great game, great man, keep it coming Nigel!
Stuart Hogg scored a try against Italy yesterday which to me seemed to be a result of a clear forward pass. Could you clear this up for me. Kind regards, John Bradshaw (England)
Nigel, Could you comment on the first sending off in the Scotland-France U20 game last week. Isn't the speed at which the two players came together, and the angle of approach of the Scottish player, a mitigation? A yellow seemed fairer to me. It felt to me that if it was a red, then one of the two players going for the ball was going off. It was just a question of who got there first.
It might have been the rules that Italy had to go down to 13, but it made the Irish v Italy game uncompetitive and totally one sided and a complete farce…….The rules for Rugby Union have been messed about with far too much and it has made watching rugby union games boring…..
I’d have been miffed if I’d shelled out for tickets n travel for my family to the game, lost internet after that booking, that law needs modified for the good of the fans as well as the game. Hope it’s looked into.
Not to be bad it was already one sided.
@Louise Mcilwaine bore off
@@brucemitch928 If we can get teams to stop cheating, it's a moot point. The fact is teams had been using injuries to force uncontested scrums; there's a big suspicion France did it vs Wales in the 6N a few years ago, so it's not just smaller countries or domestic matches. I guess the only thing to do would be to say if the card comes after the initial injury, then you don't lose another player? There still might be times where a team is getting battered in the scrum could deliberately get a red, thinking that 14 with but uncontested scrums is better than 15 and constantly giving up penalties
@@chrispainter827
Yep, agree with what your saying, the point i was making is that after fan free games for two years and the anticipation of a great game, it was was ruined by this law….
plus for me personally I’ve a 10hr round trip drive to the nearest national stadium, not only the game but fans need to be taken into consideration.
Greatest ref of all time. Such a privilege to hear his opinions.
Shame the actual game play isnt been shown for the incidents discussed. Impossible to get a proper understanding of the points being discussed and so loses so much educational value.
Great analysis! Thank you!
Excellent content, as always, Nigel 👍
The fact that it took ages to explain, means that rugby has lost its way. You shouldn't need a degree to follow a game where the premise is to get an oval ball from one end of a pitch to the other.
Look after the second freeze frame and the welsh no 1 - easy to see he has his back to the camera - clearly gone through the line out - the welsh second row has also gone over MI space - who jumps up no across...
Worth finding some other angles.
Well, we all knew what Nigel was going to be discussing this week!
Literally the moment we've all been waiting for!
Hahaha oh yes we did!!!
That information about the tmo delay is really interesting to be honest.
So much packed into this week! Do you think he missed out any other things that you would like clearing up?
@@WorldRugby not for me !
Was the Knock on/kicking law introduced after the wales engald game 2020 six nations?
Just found this and l'm glad l did. Nigel you are a legend. The balls l played with were a different shape to yours but I always respected the way rugby referees managed games and the respect players give them. You were right at the top of that tree. I think football could learn a lot from rugby and the way referees and TMO'S communicate and l am really surprised that VAR doesn't seem to work as well. Maybe with time it will.
Many thanks for your service to rugby and l look forward to seeing your analysis on UA-cam.
Brillante, clear. Thanks
Nigel is STILL the same as he was when he graced the field of play. Clear, concise and let's EVERYBODY know how he sees it and made his decision. Surely the best ever.
True fact.....Owens likes it up his entrails.
Surely with the 13 players situation it would be possible to write a rule based on the order that the incidents happened in. If the injury is the second one then yes maybe there's a risk of faking. If the red card is the second one then it's clearly an external event unrelated to the scrum. That's a clearcut difference you could write into the law that doesn't even need the referee's judgement
Thanks Mr Owens, Great insights
A thing about the Faiva red card: the tackle is of course on the neck BUT what about the irish player going down right before the impact?
He went in with shoulder but I still think it a bit harsh because it wasn't malicious because as you said.
Yes it has to be a significant drop in height rather then a dip for bracing. had the tackler made more of an effort to go lower then it could have been argued as mitigation, but as he tacked upright it would be very difficult for referees to deem it a significant drop in height
@@aidieslater8351 it could be considered a mix of both Faiva standing upright and anyway trying to make a fair tackle and Sheehan carrying the ball in an "angled" position - ok, tenth of a second for the whole thing...I thought Tmo could had been more merciful
@@giovanniciappelli2659 yes I agree it's not fair. But in that situation the tackler is always going to be at most fault because he is a tackler and not tackling low. That's just how it works across the board, and the other way round I wouldn't argue otherwise. It was clear within the new laws, sadly
Nigel I have a more general question. On Squidge rugby and other places I saw the suggestion that England had done its research on the two assistant refs (line judges). On one side of the paddock they would close lines and disrupt the line out and then be squeaky clean on the other. Refs are human beings and there will always be inconsistency, so we are used to a picture being painted for the main ref, how do you feel about teams doing analysis on the assistants?
The job is not getting any easier.
If Beard had obstructed Itoje, the Welsh would've awarded him the freedom of the city of Cardiff.
What about the deliberate knock on penalty which did not have a yellow card attached in the Eng Wales match.
given the high number of injuries which occur during games , maybe there is a need for more front row players on the bench .
I played over the weekend and the ref hated us all that much that at the end his watch goes of and I was playing scrum half and I asked him is this last play and he said no there about 5 minutes left and then after the scrum he blew the whistle and ended the game is this right as it cause my u18s or league
Dusatoir: What a player. And a gentleman.
What do you think about France holding up the player in the lineout this gaining a penalty plus a warning?
They didn’t, Scotland pushed early France couldn’t bring him down. And does that really matter when Scotland was barely a sparring partner and the game wasn’t one by 7 points ?
@@Onyx5021 rubbish, they held him up far too long. that's why the ref warned them
@@adamcarreras-neal4697 if that was the case it would have been penalty lol… ever see a ref warn a team for a penalty offense while it happens under his eyes ? No he penalizes when it’s the case, guess it wasn’t
@@Onyx5021 to be fair the commentators all noticed it. Watch it back, you can see Woki being held in the air by his own props at least 3 times.
Every game Italy is involved with ,the TMO check and double check every tackle every try every pass and every lineout a little bit more than another teams in the 6N … why’s that Nigel?
Was it a forward pass from France? France v Ireland 6N 2022.
I was at Murrayfield and every Scotsman was baying for the refs blood on several occassion during the match. Great content again and well done for being so mature with your comments on that jammy English try
Can someone explain to me how Jaminet (the French 15) didn’t receive a card for jumping into Sam Skinner (Scottish 4) and hitting him in the face?
Thinking the same thing.
as far as i onderstood the ref and as far as i have seen it, it seems to be that the majority of the collision is body/body; body/ legs and the hand into the face had no force behind it (Jaminet even tries to pull it back); you can see Skinner grabbing his ribs/abdomen? after the collision showing where the force went. TMO and ref deem it contact in air (both jumping; Skinner with ball) --> only penalty
@@RB-xc9wg but how can say that Jaminet had a legitimate chance of catching the ball? Thank you for the explanation, I still think though that jumping into an opponent is not in the rules of the game
@@callumduncan2561 correct me if im wrong but i said: "TMO and ref deem it contact in air" which is just an illegal tackle more or less --> penalty; i didnt say he had a chance to catch the ball, he was way too late
Surely a chip kick, or a grubber can be deemed a knock-on then? In either situation, the ball is lost forward and then kicked. In the case of a drop-kick, the ball actually touches the ground before being kicked. Maybe you would like to reconsider your reply on this one?
Completely different .its confusing I agree .
The devil's in the detail. 'Lost control' doesn't mean 'no longer has it in possession' but more a case of 'no longer in control of what is happening'. With a grubber kick, chip kick or a drop goal, the action is deliberate. You plan to release the ball, you plan to kick it. That's not a knock on because there's no loss of control over what you're doing. if you didn't have control of it and you kick it after it hit/touched you. If you deliberately mean to let go and kick it, but miss the kick and it bounces, that's a knock on too, because you lost control when you missed the kick.
FIFA and other related orgs refusing to admit mistakes or say refs or var decsions were wrong or missed. fear of failure.
World rugby, posts a video on their youtube channel with an ex ref saying x might need to be looked at and x was missed or wrong.
part of the reason why i love rugby is the progression desire is there, yeah they make mistakes or get things wrong but they try to make it right and fix it. keep up the integrity and progression.
Got to disagree with you on the Italian red card Nigel , Sheehan most certainly dipping prior to contact , ref and TMO at fault
Somewhat irrelevant considering this tackle is coming higher than chest height regardless.
yes but still the tackler is practially standing in the tackle. that cannot go unpunished.
@@callum5855 Not irrelevant at all ,if the ref had not called on field that he thought the tackle was high and instead instructed the TMO to look at any mitigation the card would have been a yellow , the ref's position was wrong for him to declare a high tackle as he could not clearly see and his lack of instruction to TMO was slack at best . Spoiled the game as a contest
@@rapid1010 he is indeed standing high but if you rewind the piece to where Dan Sheehan is 2 strides away the tackler has decided to tackle at that height and would have been ok what he didn't anticipate was Sheehan dipping and lowering the target area
He dipped to brace but becasue the tackler made the tackle stood upright and made little effort to tackle lower there would be no way, unless the drop was a lot more significant, that mitigation would have come into it. Thats why it is 100% the correct call with these modern laws (which i personally think need to be changed to be more lenient for the goodness of the game)
As a player now all u have to do know is whn u see a player commited to the tackle before u take it just dip down into his should and u can get him sent off. I think the reffs.need to start looking at the player with the balls body position. Imagen ur ur 6.4 and a scrum half at 5.9 is runing at u ducks down frm ur tack and ur shoulder catches his head . Wht chance have u got ur already trying to get lower thn normal to tackle him.
The red card was ok.
Only the following decision (13 men) on the field was just surprising and since most of us are not referees, we did not understand.
Thanks "Sir Nigel Owens" for explaining 🙂.
It's just unfair because these weird occasions are always "against" small teams like Italy and it really does not help them to understand and develop. (they might need to hire a referee like Jerome Garces is doing if they don't have one yet).
Maybe something should be changed here (but I don't know exactly why)
For the Eng-Wal issue, there is always a little bit of discussion.
In my opinion, refs are usually quite "nice" with some teams. Some players have been allowed a lot of things and they are always at the limit and they are doing it "well" .
But this is really frustrating for us fans because we can see all on TV with a lot of "experts" explaining/showing while the refs are on the field and do not see the whole picture (Even the TMO has not an easy job to do under pressure)
I think there is still some place for improvement.
In addition, there is also the interpretation of the rules which are still different "between the north and the south" .
But still great sport, I still like it (my blood pressure not 😀)
I've come to the conclusion that Nige doesn't like Scotland, having seen several vids where he doesn't side with us. This includes the last one where Finn was carded in spite of being hit before he was able to attempt a catch (I'd say that was a decent example of mitigating factors) then he agreed with the Scottish player being high tackled but the Welsh player not being penalised - I've seen him card players for less.
Never mind, I've always got mostly good memories of him reffing (Celtic park aside).
Definitely need a “referees discretion” element to the contested scrum regulation - that really didn’t help the game at all.
That uncontested scrums rule is just such nonsense
Also, during the France - Scotland game. The French were awarded a penalty for being tackled at the lineout, the ref then told them off for holding their player up but then proceeded to award them a penalty for it happening again later
Nigel Owens, the absolute professional.
As a fan of "Twin Town" , do you buy your own glue?
For Price's high tackle, I think you need to look at it more sequentially. Price would have scored for sure if Aldritt had not held it up. Aldritt only just managed this....fingertip stuff. Given that Price's movement was restricted by the high tackle, and that Aldritt only just managed to hold it up, that suggests that Price would have scored if he was not high tackled despite the late presence of Aldritt. Decision should have been penalty try and yellow card.
You're so sweet, with your knowing opinion, giving advice to The Man on how to view the incident, can I just as how many international rugby matches you have refereed? 🤨
Is the background music (a) pointless or (b) atrocious (c) both a+b?
Re high tackles- Does Nigel Owens think that ball carriers should be prevented from dipping into tackles?
I want to get Nigel's opinion on something. Should rugby have a player review system like cricket? Where a them has 2 or 3 reviews per game and they can use a review to force the ref and TMO to take a closer look at something.
I like Nigel Owens, but I don't understand why only Italy must be punished with red cards after high tackles...
Everyone who played Wales last year were... Ireland had a red v Wales for a high tackle as did 3 other matches. Insanely good luck for Wales last year. Played 14 men 4 out of 5 games... Bunde akis red was in particular a joke nowhere near as high as the Italy one which i thought was soft but hearing nigel explain it I understand
So Italy started with 15
Starting hooker got injured, had to be replaced.
Still 15.
Replacement hooker gets red card.
Down to 14.
Must bring on a forward and take off a back.
13 now because of what happened in the past? Even though Italy didn't do anything sus
It's so unfortunate, the rule was obviously brought in for a legitimate reason to stop teams forcing uncontested scrums but in this case it is clear there has been an error in execution.
@@WorldRugby It should just be uncontested scrums all the time now..nobody wants to watch collapsed scrums over and over again followed by a decision that most of the time has no real basis on whats happening in the scum..lose it or fix it, scrums used to be a competitive interesting part of the game..now they just seem like a waste of time that is going to put any new fans off the sport
@@hub-p4g Or just keep the clock off from the whistle for the offence/mistake, until the ball leaves the 9's hands at the put in. Then we'll see how much time they waste but also have pretty much a full 80 minutes available for rugby (not watching forwards on the floor having a rest and water boys/head coaches on the field for 30 seconds before every scrum forms).
Surely all they need to do is make a small amendment to the law so that the carded player is counted as the player "removed" as the punishment for the side forcing the depowered scrums?
You use the term:- ‘Not the worst of high tackles.’ We all know that red cards, are being dished out for silly little brushes of the collar bone, and on other occasions many are being overlooked.
With the officials making such a hard statement regarding ‘high contact’ then the rules ought to stand hard, come what may. The trouble is, that so often the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, so, as such admit that it needs to be reviewed as a whole and get it all sorted quickly.
Supporters are travelling long distances at great cost to see a spectacle of rugby, not some unbalanced game of chase.
No one wants to see players injured at any level, that is not the argument.
Just an aside:- How many forward passes go unnoticed by match officials in any one game? I reckon at least 3, many of which lead to tries 2 or 3 moves down the line. Being a ref yourself, you must see them as well, when you’re watching a match. What’s to be done?
New rules - big blokes are not allowed to just charge into each other.
It’s a foolhardy player that’s going for the knees of 125kg charging towards him.
It’s a contact sport, people will get hurt.
Comparing dangers, check out the Winter Olympics!😳
I still can't get my head around how they had 13. not 14.
It took me about two days of reading, how are you coping? Has Nigel helped at all?
@@WorldRugby 🤣🤣🤣
Should the welsh try have been allowed. throughout the game the ref had called back all tap and go attempts, then he allows a welsh tap and go, and the ref is not even looking at where the welsh player took the tap and go from, the ref had his back to the player, the ref even looked a bit shocked when the welsh player went past him. Just one to be added to the litany of inexplicable decisions made by supposed impartial refs in games involving England. My personal view is that these refs do not even consider themselves to be partial.
That's one rule I've never seen any consistency with
Worlds most respected ref? Gotta be right?
I'm still a bit unclear on why Italy had to go down to 13 men. I understand the injury and red card and the requirement for a front row player to come on for the next scrum. All good. In order for a for a front row player to come on in these circumstances someone else has to go off. Italy took off a winger to bring on a front row forward so that they still had a full complement of forwards even though he wasn't an experienced hooker, but the ref made them take off the no. 8 as well and this is what I don't understand. If Italy hadn't made the substitution (prop for winger) and had just taken off one of the back row, would they have been allowed to keep 14 men on the pitch? After all it was just one player that was sent off. This is why I don't think this decision was fair, and it ruined the match. Also would like some clarity on this point: if the game goes to uncontested scrums do both teams have to keep 8 forwards, so why is it necessary for a back row to go off, why not one of the backs?
Yeah this bit wasn't explained clearly! hopefully I can help a bit. This is how the order goes and the laws behind it.
i) There's a red card to the replacement hooker, making an initial ratio of 7:7 forwards to backs. Front rower Nemer comes on for a back (making it 8:6) but is no hooker, so the inherent player welfare risk of him trying forces uncontested scrums. This has been seriously underplayed in the reporting, but it's a huge reason for the rule. A makeshift hooker is an accident waiting to happen, so uncontested scrums were inevitable.
ii) There's an automatic penalty of one player being removed if a team forces uncontested scrums, because an opposition can't tire you out with heavy scrum work against your technically weakened pack. Anything else would either be a welfare risk in a full contested scrum, or unfairly penalise the side that's caused no infringement with not allowing them to scrummage but having no recompense for that. So Italy go from 15, to 14 for the red and finally to 13 for forcing uncontested scrums.
iii) Under the laws of the game, uncontested scrums MUST have eight players in them, to stop teams losing a man in a pointless scrum to help plug holes in a defensive line. That forces an 8:5 ratio.
iv) So why the number 8? Technically it doesn't HAVE to be the number 8. However, when an uncontested scrum happened, Italy was going to have an 8:5 ratio regardless of who's on the pitch, so they might as well turn the Number 8 into a utility player and not a specialist. Far better to have a nimble back who doesn't need to push at 8, who can whip off the scrum and plug the gaps in the line and then cover more ground quicker, than a traditional Number 8 who can't scrummage anyway and who also can't cover the ground quickly to help defend the line. So it's a case of 8:5 at the scrum, but then 7:6 the rest of the time, giving you a better hope of defending or even attacking quickly.
I agree it feels harsh. But there's no real way around it. There were instances where teams were using the substitutions to force uncontested scrums if they were getting battered in them and that's not fair. If there's no extra penalty, I could also conceive of a team manufacturing a red card to a hooker if it meant uncontested scrums to save the energy that would be burnt in the scrum for defending the line. They are rules brought in to stop teams cheating. If we could only stop them doing that, it'd make the ref's game a lot easier!
Thanks Nigel.
As every Nigel very enlightening.Diolch
Do we really need this background music competing with what Nigel is saying when explaining these rulings? It’s not helping anything.
Honest opinions
That’s ridiculous!!!
You’ve got to take ANOTHER player off.
You didn’t say your predictions
What are your predictions for the rest of the Six Nations?
@@WorldRugby Scotland come back for their first ever championship win 😎😎😎
Round 4
France Scotland England
The assistant referee in the England game was probably asleep.
Who doesn't love Nigel?
Honestly if your islander player. Goodluck with ref. He will blow a whistle at you for just looking at him.
Hi Nigel,
Related to the results years after years. Do you think Italy should be part of the 6 Nations?
And would it be more interesting of organising "some kind" of tournament selecting the best European rugby team to be selected as the sixth Nation to play ?
Thank you.
Much respect ref.🙏👌🇨🇵🏴🇪🇺
I really like that idea, but I'm sure the club's would not be happy, most especially the club's of the players that end up in the winning team. That's a lot of time to have your talent tied up in internationals and a lot of games where your talent could be injured....
@@MKR5210 I understand but it would be about the best teams among the best in the North hemisphere .
It would make it even more interesting. Unknown prodigies from undermined countries would have the opportunity to be acknowledged.
Exiting.
Who says there is not another Dupont like, in new coming rugby nation?👌🙏
@@MKR5210 japan world cup would be the best example. 👌
I'm still confused.
So. BECAUSE the scrums become uncontested, the forfeit is to lose a player off the pitch?
Nigel.Owens.best.ref on.the planet
Second question, are crooked scrum feeds ever going to be referred?
i see the hardcore rugby fans are in uproar at this assessment. while the casuals are in awe of this man 😂😂
Thanks
Salut Philippe, je vois qu'on regarde les memes choses.
WALES...
A land where MEN are MEN
AND
SHEEP are NERVOUS.............
Yes owen we do need to talk about the England game and what a beauty it was, England wins and wales prove yet again why their our most beloved rugby rivals worthy of Englands Equal 😁
Wales are not England's equal 😆
Equals - i'm sure Nigel would agree 😬 Do you think England will go all the way to the title this campaign?
@@Scottie-Jonno they are, 39 six/five/home nation titles each if my memory serves me. Only difference between England vs Wales is one world cup and 5 or 6 wins in Englands favour. Wales do fantastic considering their shortcomings in terms of player choice, club scene, infrastructure.
@@taffyducks544Are you seriously gonna pull out that card? Wales have so many foreign born players... They have a huge amount of players to pick from in England...
@@taffyducks544 Also 6 more wins is nothing to sniff at & so isn't a World Cup...
If World Rugby is all about player safety, why are we seeing games being played putting player safety at risk?
Nige is fantastic but let me add another voice to to complain about the dreadful and unnecessary music. Turn it off for goodness sake!
Nige is excellent but let me add another voice to complain about the dreadful and unnecessary music. Turn it off. We don’t need it. We need to hear Nige!
Come back Nigel rugby needs you 👍
We all miss Nigel on the pitch but wouldn't we miss him on our screens too?
Nice cows Nigel. They look health. So if a knock on is when someone looses control, how the heck did Rees-Zammit get awarded the try at Cardiff last year?
Your still the number 1 ref ,
Nigel Owens the goat frfr
Please come back and ref the big games!
That irritating music detracts from what is otherwise superbly informative
Nigel, I wonder if you think player safety around concussions is being treated seriously enough at the moment?
Just looking at the games England have taken part in so far we had the farce with Jack Nowell initially and then last weekend the Tomas Francis incident. What more can or should be done, or what needs to change?
thanks Nigel -