How to Run a 3 Phase Machine with Single Phase Power with a AC Drive including VFD Installation
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- In this video we cover one of the popular ways to run a 3 phase machine when you only have single phase power such as you have at your house. We go through identifying the motor size and voltage and how to tie into the machines existing wiring. Also check out this 100 year old shaper. She's a real beauty.
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ua-cam.com/users/TimWilbo...
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Several people have pointed out a few corrections to this video.
My guess on the motor rotation was wrong and I had it running backwards. It should be faster on the retract than the extend.
Also my dad was standing by a planer, not a shaper. On a shaper the tool moves and the part of stationery. On a planer the part moves and the tool is stationary.
Thanks to everyone for their input!
its not running backwards the motor is overloading on the back stroke and slowing down the shaper should drive forward when the pin on the bull gear is at the top of rotation giving it the best mechanical advantage to push the ram forward
To make the old machine run, that is a very noble reason, hats off to you sir, hats off.
Thanks!
Nicely done! I've been an IBEW electrician for 40+ years. You presented and explained each step in a clear, concise manner. VFD's are game changers for sure. So many options to utilize if you want or need to.
Thanks, they really have made it where we can have more industrial grade equipment when we don't have 3 phase power.
Very seldom do I ever leave comments on UA-cam but this was super informative and helpful! Thank you.
Thanks, that made my day 😊
Calling these tools of my day old, confirmed I am old reaching my expiration date..
Good info on getting 3 phase from a single phase power source.
Nah, just reaching your prime 👍
Great Video, I work in industrial maintenance for many many years wiring up motors and starters from 120-600vac and when I do any conversions I always check rotation, mark wire locations, check voltage, note and photograph all connections before I take anything apart. Some Machines will not take the slightest wrong rotation even bumping resulting in damage to the equipment. That's just my doings. And for VFD's I learned you should always setup the parameters before you ever hit the start button. That's just me though.
Amazing seeing this thing up and running. We were sad to see it leave the shop but knew it would be in good hands with Larry! - Tay
Yes it was a real beauty!
Neat video. Thanks for taking me into the shop.
I swear every time I search for a video you’re #1. I’m looking for a cheap motor to pair with my training plc and vfd. I see one at Harbor Freight for $164. It’s only 1 phase though I kinda want 3 phase in order to maximize training
Have you looked at the 3 phase fans on our trainers?
twcontrols.com/products
I agree it is a classic, and classic is beautiful
Thanks for making this. Enjoyed your video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really smart guy! Thanks for the details! Details matter on videos like this.
Glad it was helpful!
Hats off, Great deal of knowledge.
Thank you Alam!
I'd prefer to watch this machine at work than watch the TV. Good work it keeping it going.
Thanks Richard. That was one of my favorite projects that I have done in a while.
Shaper is wired in reverse, don't let that go. Dad is at a planer, good photo. Thanks keep the video's coming!
Yes someone pointed out that it was running backwards plus we noticed the dials we're going the wrong direction. I still don't get how and retracts it a faster rate than it extends.
And yes someone else pointed out that that was a planer. I was about 12 when that picture was taken so my memory is a little fuzzy. Thanks for watching!
I red once that if you run an old motor using a VFD there is a chance to damage the motor because old motors when the coils were insulated , very often had small tiny little air bubbles , these air bubbles over time can create an ark ( corona effect ) that damages the motor wiring, therefore shorten the life of the motor.
vfd can make the motor run hotter if motor is not vfd rated; today's motors are dipped and put in a vacuum chamber to remove any possible air pockets or bubbles.
excellent video Tim.
Thanks.
I've heard the same but I've never had any trouble. The newer VFDs are much better at simulating an AC SINE wave compared to the old ones.
The issue is that the early VFDs began by making a 6 step pattern to simulate a 3 phase AC output with varying frequency and a proportional voltage (Volts/Hertz) arrangement. The vary first one was called a "Parajust" in the mid 70's. This has evolved drastically to where we are now. The VFD can now be though of as a audio frequency transmitter where in the carrier running in the range of 2000 to 4000 hertz is AM modulated at various frequencies to provide the motor output. There are a variety of ways to determine how to handle the volts to hertz issue. The effect of this technology is that there is a point in each frequency cycle when the insulation is subjected to at least double the base line voltage so the insulation must be significantly better to stand the test of time. Motors designed to stand up to this punishment are called "Inverter Duty". They also typically have provisions to shunt leakage current from the rotor around the bearings to avoid premature failures. There are other issues as well, such as the use of Line and Load side reactors and "VFD" motor wire (since it is similar to a feedline) to name a few. It is well to use the services of experts to get good long term performance from these systems.
Informative videos 👍
This has been a really common question. I'm working on some How To's to go more in depth into the drive.
Thanks for showing the hiccups! It's a big help!
You are welcome! I'd never finish a video if I had to edit out all the hiccups!
Good Explanation
Thank you Charles!
Great stuff.
Thank you.
I love old machines.
Me too!
thanks exultant content
Glad you liked it Peter! I'm going to go into some more detail on using a phase converter instead of a drive in the next few weeks. So let me know if you have any questions.
Gotta love the ol school friction electrical tape 😀
Yep!
This is a great Vlog. Could have been 45mins covering more of the VFD. People VFDs are truly a blessing, accept for Rockw**l. You can pick up a VFD from G*lco for $100-350. If you have time wiring in to your House panel and you have patients, you can figure this out. You don't know how many times I've called out … and find the build / Data plate has either been; painted over, rubbed or scratched up. That tells me; Someone is wiring up, praying as they energizes....people please, protect your motor data plates like you would your family. One more suggestion...invest in a Brady BMP21 (Kit) use: M21-750-499 3/4" labels...and label your wires for the next guy.
P.S. not a bad idea to check and see if there is an In/p torque on the VFD Leg and motor screws. Especially the unit / motor lugs... tighten your wires down
Will not hertz the motor mate 😆
The only issue you have is harmonics. Check your supply voltage on your house when these loads are running. Might look cool
Yes, I've tried to make a video showing it but we're on a main part of the grid. I need to find someone with crappy power sometime to show that 😁
Incredible video ! Deep dive for single phase, three phases, VFD, motor , starter, grounding etc. One question pumps up to my mind: The start and stop pushbuttons are sinking inputs for the VFD? Thank you very much. TIm.
On this VFD they can be setup as sinking or sourcing, I used them as their default sinking.
Hello sir getting good information from your video ... actually i am electronic engineer and doing vfd repair of 1 ke to 1000 ke at component level so have any job in London for this profile..i can repair all make and vfd installation at so many applications
my CAZENUEVE has beautiful switchgear too, I treasure it 12 hp 1972 575x 2000 lathe, use df on my presses
Im running three phase 3hp motor with an inverter from single phase 230v to three phase 230v what are the losses in motor? Does it still.produce 3hp?
great video. sub'd
Thanks
I think you can run the motor both ways from the converter also, just change one value.
Great movie
Yes you can. On the mill, we wired the original forward off reverse switch to the VFD to give it the same feel of control
I’m wanting to convert a newer vertical mill and it has a control box with e stop. Start forward. Reverse. Coolant on. I would like to keep all that and not have to mess up the original wiring. Is there a way to make this happen so I can essentially keep the machine as factory as possible?
You need a rotary phase converter. I explain that setup in this video.
twcontrols.com/lessons/how-to-make-3-phase-power-from-single-phase-power-using-a-rotary-phase-converter-including-480vac
Tim, I subed on this vid because you screw things up more than I do and I like that in a guy. :-) Remember never read the manual completely that is for wimps.
Haha thanks! I figure I should leave the screw ups in the video, it might save someone the time of making the same mistake :)
@@TimWilborne I am rebuilding my CNC Mill control Panel and I am watching the build series you made. Its very well done.
@@gusbisbal9803 Thanks!
Hi Tim, I just recently picked up a delta Unisaw that is 3 phase 220 (5hp)…. What VFD would you recommend to run it off of single phase 220 ?
I don't recommend a particular brand, any one that can run on 220V single phase will work though at 5hp your options will be more limited. Many only support up to 2hp.
Hi Tim, I picked up a Rockwell Delta 20" bandsaw and of course it's 220v 3p. I'm converting to 1p with a VFD, but I still want the safety od a big red STOP mag-switch. I could put it in series between the source and VFD or between the VFD and motor. Wondering if yuou have added a mag-switch with a VFD and how it worked out.
Thanks,
Dennis
Most buttons are not rated for the current you need.
Hey Tim, great video! Awesome machine.
I have an old General 360 Table Saw (Drummondville make) and it's currently 3 phase. I only have single phase in my shop...would I be able to use one of these to run it on our single phase power? :)
Yes, up to 3 hp with this particular drive.
@@TimWilborne Thank you so much, man!
I have a 100hp 3 phase motor that goes with a sawmill I bought. How can I hook it up using 3 phase if I can’t get 3 phase electric ran to my loc? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
That's a big sucker. There are a few VFDs that come to mind but I would probably look at a rotary phase converter first. Here is a video I did on them.
ua-cam.com/video/k9tR9d3DsqY/v-deo.htmlsi=nrw9yL44u7Vpfimo
Here is a good source to contact about your application.
www.americanrotary.com/
What wire do you use is it 3phase wire? And is it possible to wire a normal 240 plug on it and not hard wire it to the fuseboard?
Hi Aaron
I'm not sure what you mean by "3 phase wire". If you mean inverter wire then no, I think somewhere in this video's comments there is a discussion on whether inverter wire is necessary.
You can just a 4 wire cable such as SJ or SO 4 wire as long as it is rated for the voltage.
Personally I usually usually use 4 THHNs wires in a metal conduit.
Yes you can put a plug on it, I use a L21-30.
This is a great video. If you are using a single phase 120VAC on the line side do you need to have a 2 pole breaker on the line side or a single pole breaker? I notice in this video you are using a single phase of 230VAC which is made up by 2 phases on 120VAC. What do you do if you just have a line and a neutral?running 208VAC motor
If you are using 120VAC, then that is one pole.
How about for bigger loads? For the supply of single phase 220V then the load will be 20 hp 220V or 440V motor. Is it still advisable to use this kind of setup?
There are drives for bigger loads but I usually look at rotary phase converters for those size applications. See this link ua-cam.com/video/k9tR9d3DsqY/v-deo.html
Any suggestions on a Variable Frequency Drive Inverter for a parts washer with these specs 208-230/460 volts and 21-18/9 amps 3ph ?
Any 15 hp drive that can run on 230VAC 1 Phase should work but I always recommend running it by the manufacturer.
@@TimWilborne thank you!! its a big old parts washer 80 amp Aaladin Model 2175E Parts Washer it weighs 2000lbs now i just need a crane!! i can get it for 1500$ im just making sure, thank you again i wish i had your knowledge
Do you think this device will power up this machine: I.e. The Machine is a Heidelberg Kord 64 - The Gross Power is 42 kw (56.32 hp)
, I think the machine requires between 380v-400v to run?
No you would need a rotary phase converter. See this video ua-cam.com/video/xq0UAEDTKVc/v-deo.html
Hey Tim can you still source keypads for those vfds?
I think that drive has been discontinued, I haven't used one in a long time.
Please can I use one single phase to three phase inverter to control 2 three phase electric motors at the same time?
Yes, as long as your idler motor is twice as large as the total load of your two 3 phase motors.
Hi Tim . Don't we have to use VFD cables. On the load side of the VFD? Have you noticed much problem of harmonics if you use regular unshielded cable? Well its a small VFD probable that wouldn't be an issue.
Hi Joel. Thanks for watching! VFD cables for harmonics? No but first let's talk about EMI noise which is what VFD cable is used for...
You don't need to use VFD cable on an application like this. VFD cable is to prevent the motor output of the VFD from inducing EMI noise onto nearby equipment, other motor loads in the same conduit, and signal cabling (especially unshielded) that leads to sensitive electronics. This setup has none of these. If you ask a VFD cable manufacturer then they will say you need it for every application but the biggest place I see it used is in cable tray where you have multiple motors running parallel in the same raceway. What I see more in practice as a rule is having a separate metal conduit for each motor load which roughly does the same thing. I say roughly because there is no doubt that VFD cable would do a better job, but the metal conduit has already lowered it enough for most applications.
Harmonic distortion is a whole different thing and I've dealt with it a lot on rural single phase applications. This is something drives put back out on the power line, distorting the 60hz sine wave...more of putting ripples in it. It is a bigger issue on rural power because the grid isn't as strong. It doesn't affect the local equipment, maybe not even the local user. It could be the neighbor up the road suddenly has a high pitched ring on their phone or the internet goes haywire every time you run a specific machine.
@@TimWilborne thanks for the information tim. I appreciate the efforts that you make to help us understand all these these. God bless you brother.
@@TimWilborne I had a confusion between emi noise and harmonics you cleared my doubt very well.
You are welcome Joel.
question if you can help me running a VFD with this motor I have 3hp model number EM3611T. i want to power it with a house hold 220/240 single phase power converted to 3ph 230v. the VFD from amazon i want get says it puts out 3 phase 220v not 230v?
my motor is 3hp 230/460v
200, 220, 230, and 240VAC are all the same. Which one is one the nameplate depends on the regional "standard" of the manufacturer
@@TimWilborne thanks how do i check if my motor is AC ?
I’m wondering if you can help me out? I have an inbay two post 3 phase car lift at my house that I’m trying to get working on single phase. It has a 4 hp motor that has a motor voltage range of 197-253 volts. I’m a non electrician and hoping that you can help select a frequency drive needed. Thank you
You will either need a VFD or rotary phase converter. Here is a video on the converter.
ua-cam.com/video/k9tR9d3DsqY/v-deo.html
@@TimWilborne I have been informed that a VFD would not provide for 4hp rating of my motor from 1ph and I would need a rotary phase converter.
Hey Tim, could you explain how you measured continuity from the ground to the motor frame ? Is that simply using meter on ohms? I didn’t Know I could measure continuity like that. I always thought I needed a wire
For BASIC continuity checks, there is not difference between a copper wire and a steel motor frame. Just put your meter in OHMs
@@TimWilborne so basically that path (even though not copper) has less resistance than your body does? Makes sense
@@joew4202 Yes, while steel only has around 10% the conductivity of Copper, we are talking about a very minute current with the ohm meter so there is no apparent voltage drop. This might make for a neat video.
@@joew4202 Duh!
@@jesscast5122 human body has about 300 ohms resistance. That drops given several different factors. Believe it or not our bodies are relatively good conductors. But, I’m
Sure you knew that.
good
Thanks
Tim I am needing to convert 30 amps of 240 volt single phase into 3 phase output with 4 wires at 208 volts(L1L2L3N). Could you please point me in the direction of the product im looking for? The output load isnt relevant here because i can change my output needs in the input settings of my appliance. Thanks in advance and great videos
208 is actually a bit more difficult to do because you will have to step down the voltage, could you do 240 3 phase?
@@TimWilborne yes I could because I can change those input parameters in my appliance as well.
@@TimWilborne which product will do this for me and thanks again
In my home we have single phase (240 ac volt), can I run 3 phase motor (240 volt) ?
With either an AC drive or rotary phase converter
This press has worked like a charm for my projects ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxajoEbapTfqWaadnqb04h6U576yxXp-FE . I didn't even secure it to my table top, mainly due to the fact that I was using a 15 lbs drill vise. It's not flimsy at all as to what others have claimed it to be. Make sure the locking nuts and levers are secured and there won't be any issues with light pressure and patience. I was able to drill through aluminum, plastic, and steel (steel took a while) with no problems at all. Yeah it took a little longer than a regular drill press, but I don't have the space OR the money for one.The instruction manual was worthless, but luckily assembling the press was intuitive. However, the manual would be good for ordering replacement parts if needed. There is a nice breakdown of the parts that are included in the kit. Before ordering, make sure it is compatible with your unit, it is clearly stated what models the press is compatible with.This was an excellent purchase for $40!!
Indeed!
Are you able to post a link to the AC drive you used?
Hi Brenden. It is an Allen Bradley 25B-V2P5N104.
Hey Tim, interesting video series. Wondering if you can help out a non-electrician. I'm looking to purchase a welder that requires 400 Volts / 3 Phase / 60 Hz for my backyard workshop. What sort of VFD might I need? 3phase can be brought in for $25K, says the power company! So looking for another alternative.
A VFD won't work well for a welder, you need to look at a rotary phase converter. Here is my setup.
twcontrols.com/lessons/how-to-make-3-phase-power-from-single-phase-power-using-a-rotary-phase-converter-including-480vac
What does this gorgeous machine make?
It is the predecessor to the modern milling machine
Can you use a VFD for a 10Horse motor?
Sure, as long as the drive can run on single phase. Typically when you run a drive on single phase, you have to double the horsepower so it would need a 20 hp drive capable of running on single phase.
There are so many VFD converters out there that im confusd to whats a good reliable one and whats not? I need one for a 5hp 3 phase baldor motor on my air compressor i need somebody to just point me to a reliable one i can trust to run my Saylor Beall compressor
Most of them will do the job for you. Just make sure it can run on single phase power. Many drives stop supporting single phase at 3hp.
Almost any 3ph VFD can be run on 1ph. Just derate the vfd. I.e. get a 10hp 3pH vfd to run your 5hp 3ph motor from 1ph power
How to calculate input current of 1ph vfd
The easiest way is to look at the nameplate data of a single phase drive that is the horsepower you are looking for.
Is VFD used for single phase motor?
No, only 3 phase motors.
The language sounds all foreign to me...video was interesting you sure know your stuff. I just came to find a way to power my 3 phase equipment, not sure how to do it..14.4 kW / 60 hz/ 220 v...rotary motor?? anyways thank you for your video
Do you have three phase power?
Im wanting to run a 20hp 3 phase on 220 singoe phase am i dreaming or can it happen
It can happen. Reach out to American Rotary
can you use one of these on a plasma cutter ? I bought a 3 phase plasma cutter and only have single phase power. need help !!!!! lol
Yes it will work with a plasma cutter. Just make sure you size it properly. You'll need nearly double the kw of the plasma cutter.
Short answer: No you cannot! I am assumimg we are talking about a handheld plasma cutter, not a CNC, although this applies to both. Most plasma cutters with three phase inputs will rectify the input voltage into DC as soon as it enters the machine. The catch here is that AC variable frequency drives (even with load reactors) will put out a PWM waveform, not a pure sinusoidal wave. The high voltage spikes will eventually destroy the input rectifier to your plasma cutter and render it useless.
@@logycam10 Nonesense!! the VFD will put a re-constructed Sine wave to the motor.
the PWM is used at the INPUT of control signal to VARY the frequency.
Well the Ripple from single phase rectification is greater than 3 ph.
which may cause also a ripple on the "steadyness" of the plasma arc.
I would probably add an extra bank of Capacitors at the DC supply point.
(you gotta know what you're doing. and understand WHY you're doing it. or Don't mess w it)
Even on single phase 4 out of the 6 Rectifiers will still be working. (3ph Bridge)
logycam10 dude(below) says "The high voltage spikes will eventually destroy....blah blah"
I don't believe that would be the case. BUT the Greater ripple on DC from Single phase, could possibly make the Plasma cut not so smooth if the arc also has a ripple. But IF the machine has sufficient capacitance on DC(Filter Capacitors) it will prob. smooth out the ripple and be OK, it depends on the Engineering of what you bought. Gotta try it.
@@jesscast5122 Not true at all. I have never seen a VFD with a factory pure sine wave output option. The only way to achieve anything close to a pure sine wave with a stock VFD is to use a LC filter network, which are very expensive and are only tuned for a single load, if the load varies at all, the LC filter will not create much of a sine wave at all. Think about it, if all VFD's were pure sine wave, they would put all of the phase converter companies out of business. Tim wouldn't have had to build a rotary phase converter, he would have just slapped a VFD in a cabinet and set it 60hz with a 0.0 accel and coast to stop.
Hi sar
0.18 kw
motor 3ph
Run 220 singal ph
Sar campastar ........uf ( plz help me ) me
I'm not sure what you are asking
Nah, that motor isn't that old, the really early ones didn't have a junction box (aka the "peckerhead" in electrician-speak). The standard method back then was to put a weatherhead on the end of your conduit and curly-coil the wires through the air to the exposed leads on the motor. Just use plenty of tape and no one gets hurt. :)
And I'm not suggesting that I am old or anything like that, but I have wired this type of motor up...
I think that you are correct in being cautious about using a VFD on an old three phase motor. I'm not sure how a "wound rotor" 3 phase motor would react.
The old starter is pretty old, just two of the legs have overloads on them, that hasn't been legal in ages. And the slide relay (solenoid) in the starter harkens back to the old copper-carbon contact days.
These were used in old elevators, and you can still buy replacement carbon pads. The beauty of these is that they a) won't weld together, and b) the metal part of the contacts forms itself to the carbon/graphite pad. But mostly a) they won't weld together. Something to do with safety. Elevator mechs are funny that way. :) And old-timey elevators use limit switches that are designed to destroy themselves rather than allow a set of welded contacts to keep the lift running.
And it's interesting that the motor is a six-pole motor - another reason to be careful with it.
Now, this is old: ua-cam.com/video/t4Dvg7DhCtg/v-deo.html
At 1:20 in the video you can see a couple of carbon pad relays. :)
That is a neat looking control board. I love seeing how the these vintage controls were made.
@@TimWilborne Yeah, that is a nice board. Back when craftsmanship meant something. :)
I started out as an electrician, and switched over to engineering in the 80's. That was also a period where you were likely to see just about anything controls-wise. We used to control the position of two conveyors with old WWII fire control syncros. The device that set the pace for the line was a gutted gasoline pump (a Veederroot). At a plant that I did work in they had a very early PLC which was just a series of gates that you would wirewrap your program into. :)
In these days of multiple megs of memory for a PLC, our Series Sixes came with 4K which would hold a pretty large program (which I figured out how to modify to have 8K - no credit to me, GE made it too easy).
@@MrWaalkman I had never heard of increasing the memory in those. Clever.
@@TimWilborne The 4K boards are identical to the 8K boards with jumper JP7 cut out on the 4K boards. Just my powers of observation rather than brilliance. :)
I did a deep dive into a thesis paper from Iowa State University (1974) that discussed various kinds of phase converters (lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6977&context=rtd). The upshot of all this is the rotary phase converters are going to have some imbalance and his rule of thumb was 40 - 45 mfd per HP.
He also goes into great length on describing/testing the Autotransformer phase converter. It's an interesting variation, but I'm not sure where you would get the autotransformer (or if it is even legal in the US). One thought would be to use the high side (or the side with the voltage taps) of a three phase transformer. It would have to be a Wye connection of course, and the center would have to be accessible. Just leave the third leg capped off.
Another tidbit is that for the best voltage balance, you need a modified motor:
"An ordinary three-phase induction motor can be used as a phase converter only if the electrical load is small and considerable voltage unbalance can be tolerated. To reduce the voltage unbalance the motor must be designed for low leakage reactance with open and shallow slots and a few number of turns per slot (97)."
Finding the reference to this quote is proving difficult. The reference:
"97. Sreenivasan, T. V. Application of a capacitor with the
Arno 1:3 phase converter. Journal of Institution of Engineers (India) 46, No. 12, Part EL6j 518-527. Aug. 1966."
And an interesting bit is that you can boost your output voltage by some trickery. Not something that is useful here in the US, but in the UK it comes in handy for running 415 volt machines off of 240:
ua-cam.com/video/lydbIbj1EGo/v-deo.html
The most interesting thing is that he is using just one winding to generate two legs of his 3 phase. The capacitor values (in his case) actually differ depending on the legs relationship (in degrees) to the powered leg (that's his theory, and it seems reasonable).
As for increasing your voltage through trickery, there is nothing stopping you from wiring up your idler motor to 240 volts on the 4-7, 5-8, 6-9, leads and getting your three phase power off of leads 1,2, & 3 to get 480 volts. Think of it as a rotary autotransformer.
And the same design done right:
ua-cam.com/video/uGKZ51zg0X8/v-deo.html
What about a welder they use two phases
Some welders are single phase, some welders are three phase, and some welders can run off of either. If yours can run off of single phase then you don't need a phase converter.
this is supposed to be a learning video
Yes 😁
pls make it one. Just consider that you are teaching millions out there who don’t have a clue of what this is all about. Otherwise label the video for advanced techs.
Make one what?
Run _off of_ 3-phase? So... anything _but_ that?
Thanks for your comment love, Tim! So now that you have taken the time to go through and mark comments with these, what's your answer to my question?
Ok I’m
Rockwell Drives engineer here - you want a job???
😀
"And actually, some of theirr smaller ones... will run [on] 120, so you can just plug it into the wall."
What: like if it's 220/240, you couldn't just plug it into the wall? 220/240 outlets aren't on the wall?
Thanks for your comment love! Oops, I just noticed my "theirr" error after about a year of my comment's presence here! But if I correct it now then I will lose your comment love mark unless you notice and decided to replace it after the edit.
Anyway, now that you've taken the time to notice and give the reaction, what's your answer to my question?