I think the reason people say that is because, at least in the West, cartoons are treated as just for kids. Also, a good character and a relatable character are not the same thing. A strong character can be relatable, but not all relatable characters are good characters, and not all good characters are relatable.
I think the reason why Kuro The Artist was saying that relatable characters are good characters is that every character, even one who is a terrible "person" needs to be relatable because you must find some way to see where they're coming from. Lex Luthor is a good example, even though he does terrible things all the time he has actual motivations. Like how he personally feels as if he is "saving" the Earth from Superman. That is why every character is the protagonist of their own story.
this kinda explains my problem with the dmc fan base,some thing with a pathetic gameplay and character traits as nero is beloved for some reason,and i guess i should just accept it and move on.
For me personally, I believe that a good character must be passionate or motivated. well they don't necessarily have to be relatable, you want to know where they're coming from, whether or not you agree with where they're coming from. Tokyo Godfathers is a perfect example. The shows about three hobos during the week between Christmas and New Year's. before the plot begins, they practically accepted their place in life. They all have a past that they would rather run away from him be homeless if it means that they would never have to face their demons again. But then comes a baby that they find in a dumpster, a baby that one of them calls Hope. As they try to figure out who the the parents of the baby are and how she ended up in the dumpster, they are each forced to face their past, accept their mistakes, and move forward knowing that they forgive themselves. You can make the argument that these characters are not relatable as how they act between each other alone would make you glad that they're in their position. But as you learn where they come from and why they act the way they do to each other as well as themselves, you start to Hope that they can be better people and in turn have better lives. Their motivation to return the baby back to her parents is what makes them interesting, and thus, in my eyes, good characters.
I think a common thing is people are confusing real dialogue and growth with “darkness”. Not every cartoon is to have real conversations within the genre but certain cartoons such as the OG Titans, has those conversations. It one thing that made it relatable and great. Which is why there is such a divisive fan base when it comes to TT. It is necessarily that TTGo is bad it’s the fact that TTGo mocks the image of the TT that was waited for by so many fans who wanted to see conclusions to many stories that felt left on an open note without it being purposely left that way.
It would flanderize the characters. Did everyone forget that terra at the end wanted to be left alone and that the answer doesnt matter because it shouldn't matter?
Writing to me is only good when the writer has a wider grasp of the society their demographic is in, than what the market demands you to adhere to. Marketing something specific about a show or character is often much worse off than when a writer knows how to present something with their own awareness of concepts shown in the writing.
Exactlly. Let's face it a Superhero TV shoe is a Superhero show NOT some immature Pre-School they go out there they put on there suits, place there boots on the ground and they save the world. Just like The Men and Women in The Branch of Service. Hell I hated when Parent's act like Hypocrites.
People mean mature when they say ‘Dark’ it’s because 50% of people still think cartoons are for kids. Exploring interesting themes and mature stuff, having a good story, having fleshed out characters we can relate are all important yet there’s still people out there who see cartoons as for kids and try to do just comedy. Comedy is fun but when the industry is oversaturated, people get bored
Its because we are used to the dark and serious moments while kids are not as much.....And thats what cartoon network is,a kids channel.The era of 2000-2010 was great but changes have to come..may not be good or bad
well im not gonna say the cleshey OLD CARTOONS WAS GOOD AND NEW CARTOONS IS BAD i wont say its bad because its trying to appeal to a new era like how it did in the early 2000-2011 and how it did and the 90s and 80s every set of cartoons is differnt because its trys to appeal what kids like and what kids like now is....dabs........and lets be honest he always had that one cartoon or movie that was boring for boring in the 90s was doug IMO and for the early 200s (where i grew up in) was all grown up....even tho i liked it alot of people thought it was boring and now its marvel spiderman things always change and i think the cartoons changed (and i count 2012 as early 200s because yeah)
People also confuse being dark with maturity. What makes the show mature isn't what's in it, but how those subjects and situations are treated. Take death for example. Death itself doesn't make something mature, it just means that death exists in the show. What matters is if death (the subject) is treated with maturity and respect. That truly what makes something mature.
Wandering Oryx I am just using it as an example and it's story telling has gotten pretty bad. But death there has no meaning, it has no weight, it cannot be taken with the seriousness and maturity that is required, because you can just bring them back with the mcguffin any damage can be undone. There can be no lasting impact or effect or consequence, because you got something that can undo all of that. You lose the sanctity of life, and that makes for a very bad story.
Uncle grandpa was total trash for the first 4 seasons, but it was the fifth season was where it actually got watchable, when it seemed like the writers started caring. Don't get me wrong, it was still very odd, but, one day while watching an episode I noticed a common theme: The writers- the characters, in the show reinforce this idea that its OK to be, well, WEIRD. No one at a younger age likes being told they are weird and are shamed because of it, but Uncle Grandpa teaches you that YOU are YOU, and even if others view you as weird, its OK, because no one is in a sense, NORMAL, people just like to make you think that. The message really hit home with me, as I've been very conscious of my appearance and reputation throughout my whole life, Uncle Grandpa tries to show its perfectly fine to be different. Maybe I'm reading too much into but that's how I saw it.
Uncle Grandpa was always hit and miss. Some episodes are really funny others try too hard to be funny the funniest episode they ever did was when Pizza Steve and Uncle Grandpa get stuck on the escalator.
I haven't seen much of "Uncle Grandpa," but I remember its crossover with "Steven Universe" also had a similar message to what you described. Nonetheless, it's still good lesson.
Yeah I agree. Being dark doesn't make you show or movie good. Look at batman v superman. It's dark but that doesn't make it a good movie. In fact it has a tons of problems. A good show is a series filled with well written and relatable characters. Not all of them have to be relatable but having some relatable characters is one of the things that makes the show good. So great video kuro 👍.
It's about a balance between good characters and a good plot. They don't need to be darker they just need to not treat kids like they're stupidity personified. If you don't baby talk a baby then it'll learn to speak faster and if you do it'll take more unnecessary years.
We arnt asking for a Dark Show, or a fully serious show, and we arnt saying that ALL Cartoons to be mature. We just need two things. For reboots to RESPECT the source material (looking at you Teen Titans Go) and at the very least 2 or 3 MATURE shows. Mature doesn't Realy need to be Dark or Serious, hell they don't even have to have violence. But we're adults that grew up with badass cartoons like Ben 10 and Samuri Jack, and whilst those have violence in them, its not JUST action we want, we want the struggle the characters went through, and the genuine character moments that come with those moments. Like Ben Using the Omnitrix ia way a true 10 year old boy would, or jack working with the people of the future how you would expect. We need a few Animated Series that Work like these shows. Less and less animated shows are being as Up There like they were in the past. Kids do like Dark and gritty and comedy TOGETHER, But we don't want what they're giving us as of now because they, like you said, went full Goofball and swept all the Cool stuff under the rug. I do agree that Relatability is a strong necessity that is, well, necessary for good storytelling. But if you want to see a good example of what I'm talking about, look at the powerpuff girl reboot and compare it to the original. The reboot focuses on the downtime, and has the girls go to school, get sick, do raps, and some other stuff But the cool action and wit of the original series is why we watched it as kids. It was Visceral and colorful, and over all things, Creative Eh. I don't know. If anyone wants to start a disgussion here or tell me your opinions, go ahead. I'm glad to hear
Inigmian Studios teen titans go is a fantastic parody of the original they totally respect the source material. I love the episode were they met young justice that explained why both shows work
Like ravens dad is a silly fun loving guy they couldn't get it more wrong if they tried. It feels like something beast boy would make up to try and get a reaction out of raven
it's kinda telling when the ben 10 reboot is easily the best of the 3 (PPG2016 and TTG), it's not great, I'd say it's ok at best, but at least they're (mostly) not insulting the audience and given his circumstances (aka, max and gwen keeping him in check way less than in the original show,, which at least in max's case I don't like), ben at least feels like he's doing what a kid his age would do.
Gaming and Stuff I kinda like comedy that insults a makes fun of me. People need to be able to laugh at there favourite things it's weird that they can't
Not everything needs to be dark or serious but I’d enjoy something of that nature just existing at all. I mean all I’m asking for is at least like... Xialoin Showdown level of seriousness i feel like that’s not asking that much for something of that level to at least exist along side the current amorphous comedy blob
You're correct for the most part, although I'll have to disagree that 'relatable = good'. I believe that it's possible for a character to relatable but 'poorly' written. Although I don't this is exactly what you meant, since I could also say that all "good characters are relatable, but not all relatable characters are good", which makes more sense (at least to me) and seems like what you were going for. At the same time however, a character's relatability is what offers the audience something to connect with - if the audience connects then that means they'll want to watch more, which is what any cartoon producer would want.
Villains are good characters but not relatable unless if they have a backstory to tell. Arthur Fleck, for example, is a good character who is sympathetic due to his mental health and a hard life, but not relatable because... of course he's the Joker -- a clown villain who committed multiple criminal activities and genocide towards others.
I think you misunderstand the argument. People are arguing for more dark and grit. They're saying there's too much from the opposite side. based on your examples, this sounds like an outdated topic.
There needs to be a balance of drama and comedy; too much of one and not enough of the other ruins the show. Also, too many Western cartoons are geared solely towards children; cartoons need more diversity beyond the 5-16 year old demographic.
While I agree with your overall point (that developing great characters that one can sympathize or empathize with is better than making something edgy for the sake of being edgy), I disagree that Steven Universe is an example of the latter. In fact, I’d argue it probably takes more of the Hey Arnold approach since it’s mostly focused on character development and everyday scenarios while only occasionally advancing the fantastic (as in being fantasy, not a judgement on its quality) alien-related story.
Everyone acts like the 2003 teen titans was pure dark and gritty when it wasn’t. Remember when Beast Boy turned into a dog and got kidnapped by a child like alien? How about when Killer Moth blackmailed Robin into taking his daughter to her prom? Then there’s my personal favorite of the comedic episodes: Mother May I. When an evil witch hypnotizes the titans into thinking she’s their mother. I think most people remember that show because it knew how to balance its tone with each episode, but people seem to forget the sillier moments
I know I am late, but I just wanted to say that you sir are splitting facts. I am glad you are looking at the bigger picture. I always knew that darkness, serious and maturity is NOT what makes a great cartoon or even a great entertainment content in general. I know for a fact that darkness, seriousness and maturity is NOT inappropriate for kids and isn't only for adults, because kids in general do love those stuffs and can literally handle than some teens and adults think they can. For example, Kid Cosmic is cartoon show aimed at kids, therefore it's kids cartoon show and there is nothing wrong with that. It was a great cartoon/kids cartoon show because it was made by people with passion, not the target audience nor the tone of the series, no just passion.
It's a shame cartoons get a bad rap every so often, most people immediately categorize "cartoon" as simple kids entertainment just to keep them busy. But cartoons (to me personally) are another form of expressive art and story telling. It's the same with movies, comic books, novels, art itself and even legend (to some extent), creative ways to tell stories and benefit generations of people by having them connect with these characters as well as be inspired by them.
I think there is something you horribly misunderstood. When people say they want shows to be "darker", this doesn't mean to show blood or murder or whatnot, but for the show to not be afraid to explore "dark" themes. That's why shows like the weekenders or hey Arnold were so popular, because they DID explore dark themes. Abandonment, mistreatment, substitute families, dealing with pressure, mental breakdowns ... all these are dark themes that were explored in these cartoons and that's what made them great. In contrast, shows like TTG fail because, while they do have dark things in them, they are played for shits and giggles, rather than explored in an understandable way. And that is not a new phenomenon, things have ALWAYS been this way. Even back in the 90's, plenty of cartoons were just mindless dribbles for kids, with the few standout shows that we remember today. Darker and more serious simply means "not shying away from exploring problems that characters have", which too many cartoons do. They gloss over potential gems in favor of keeping it light and fluffy - you know for the kids. The show miraculous ladybug is a good example of that. It's immensely popular and I love it too, but there are SO many things in there that could go from good to great if only the creators were less afraid to touch upon them. I don't need Adrien to be suicidal or anything, but I would like an episode or two that breaks away from the normal formula to explore what his broken home life does to him and how being Chat Noir gives him relief from that and allows him to be himself. It's there, in the show, almost every episode, but that's all there's to it; it's just there. It's very rarely touched upon and never really delved into, Break away from the effing "kid-friendly" formula and start exploring your characters problems and psyche's more. And yes, that does mean the show has to be "serious and darker". Just not in the way you described it. Also, animation was literally an art form until AFTER the Hannah-Barbera boom. It was very much taken seriously on a worldwide spectrum. As a matter of fact, before D.W. Griffith's first feature length films, animation was the only type of film coming out of the US that considered art and it stayed that way basically until every studio started copying Tex Avery. If you're going to talk about the history of animation, at least do your research.
Could'n say it better myself for example adventure time is a silly show however its mature because it deals with heavy subject matter such as regret,self expectance,aging,growing up,loss, mental illness,the struggle between security and isolation,imperfection accepting of others and self acceptance,and spirituality while not being over simplified or melodramatic
Great video Kuro, as always. And I pretty much agree with everything, watching shows like Hey Arnold or SpongeBob can have as many "serious" moments as shows like Ben 10 Ultimate Alien or Batman TAS. And characters do play a BIG part in the picture!
Like omniverse, it was light hearted show but had exceeded the limits of dark moments by letting destroy universe, Multiverse and letting have a child face depression and self regret
Adventure time: *had good characters and funny jokes and a storyline* Cartoon Network: CANCELED NO MORE DO NOT SHOW THIS ANYMORE Teen titans go: *farts and makes butt jokes* Cartoon Network: we need to have this playing 24.7
To be honest, I really love the cartoon character of Doug, both versions from nickelodeon and Disney. Probably more the Disney one since I’m familiar with that company more that I am with nickelodeon. Doug seems to be a very reliable character as he is always looking out for his friends and just wants to impress the girl he really likes, Patti mayonnaise. I always found that to be relatable as I too was a awkward, shy but creative and confident person who grow up to be Caring and thoughtful of other’s feelings and ambitions in life.
It's not that I want shows to be dark and gritty. A little comedy can help take the edge off it all. Heck, Samurai Jack did this rather well. The problem is today; "comedy" (and I use the term loosely) seems to consist of farting, sexist behavior, dumbing down the characters, meme references and an overzealous use of shaming those that hate the property. LOOKING AT YOU, TTG CREATORS! Stuff like Looney Tunes, classic Simpsons, classic Family Guy...even Avatar: The Last Airbender did comedy splendidly. Either through mocking the enemies, displaying properly outrageous behavior towards dire situations and/or reveling in the fact that they are animated (mostly on Looney Tunes part.) What some people want, these days is not specifically a dark and gritty series. But one that has relatable situations, iconic heroes, adventurous stories and truly menacing villains
I don’t think people hate Teen Titans Go because it’s not dark and serious. They hate it because it has bad writing. People love lighthearted cartoons as well. Just look at Gravity Falls, that cartoon, while it has serious moments, is mostly very goofy and lighthearted, but people still love it because it’s well written.
Nah cartoons dont need to be dark. But if they started out serious/dark like say.... Thundercats and then because a studio decided they couldn't come up with a new show, they decide to take the I.p. and turn it into something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the original; That's where it puts a bad taste in people's mouth. It's no longer about the story, only the money a studio can make from it.
Great video, Kuro! You've got a lot of good points here. I will say though, I'm curious about your stance on diversity in animation and would like to see a video on the topic in the future.
Wayne Nelson I agree on this. The creators of the cartoons are adults and they love cartoons that are made for kids. Teen Titans has a click that’s unique while Teen Titans Go has no way to click with it. Sooner or later Teen Titans Go Fans will realize that they don’t remember TTG because of a cartoon or a reality TV show that connects with the audience will be better than that show. Who knows maybe a creator is already trying to make it.
Teen Titans mixed serious, dark and emotional stuff with funny and lighearted stuff perfectly and thats what i want in my shows most of the time instead of the shows being serious all the time or funny all the time.
This video deserves way more views! I understood the point of this video and people should also understand that "Lighter and Childish does'nt make cartoon bad."
If seriousness and shock factors made something good, then Shadow the Hedgehog's game is a masterpiece. As much as I love the Sonic franchise, Shadow the Hedgehog is a pretty good example of this whole issue, as Shadow doesn't have any of his interesting and relatable factors he had in Sonic Adventure 2 and even Heroes and is just an edgy guy who swears and kills people. And yeah, I agree too many cartoons take things to the extreme with seriousness or comedy. There are some cartoons nowadays that do the balance well enough, but not nearly enough do. The main reason I love something like Teen Titans isn't because it was serious, but because there was that healthy balance between comedy and action which helped give each character a clearly defined personality that let you connect with them. The part that gets me the most about Teen Titans is that, unlike almost every other superhero thing, they remove all of the secret identity stuff, and STILL manage to make relatable characters, as the secret identity is often used to help make them more relatable by having them deal with school and whatnot. Spectacular Spider Man is a cartoon that does that, but it also weaves the superhero and secret identity stories and emotions together in such a way that you still know this is the same character, who still has the same core issues, yet he's essentially two different people with different problems at any given time. And yet, both of these issues play into each other so well.
I think this problem primarily comes from people outgrowing the usual cartoon format, and instead of moving onto something more mature and more fitting to their grown taste, they instead request the cartoons change with them.
First name Last name Kye is right. The problem is that entire generations were raised on cartoons, and people assumed they were meant to grow out of them as a medium. Not only that, but unlike past generations, we have proof that the medium can be mature and tell stories worth watching as an adult, so we want more. It's nobody's fault, not the viewers or the creators. It's just that we, as a potential audience, are saying what would make us tune in to cartoon channels and hoping they will oblige.
Good video, really opened up my opinions about the media I consume. Just please fix that little blue speck over your skull emblem... kept catching my eye every time it shrunk or got larger
I think when people say "Dark and gritty" they actually mean mature. Ben 10, Avatar the last airbender even shaolin showdown are like 75% fun and 25% serious themed, there needs to be a balance. The shows that i have listed above all have an established mythology and have good storytelling with action adventure and comedy in them. The cartoon we have on the air now are mostly just comedy, not to be taken seriously. There is nothing wrong with comedy shows, just saying there needs to be a balance of comedy and action shows.
I feel like we have some more actioned theme shows with more mature subject matter for example shows like adventure time,star v.s force of evil,bojack horseman,troll hunters,castlevania,the dragon prince etc are all shows that strike a balance between humor and dark moments
All cartoons not needs to be dark and mature to become a good cartoon,I will never tell that tom & jerry needs to be darker,but animated shows like Ben 10 should have good mix up of humor,darkness,maturity and action...because Ben 10 has already became a show that people don't want to see it as a sitcom animated show,what was omniverse.When a TV show becomes a unique standard's show there is no need to change the standard.Because people who are watching a show in darker,mature tone and if suddenly it becomes a sitcom where serious villains starts to joke that just makes no sense.And when a artwork became poular and people used to it,and if you change the artstyle,there will always be down rating with a show just like how Ultimate Alien>Omniverse.People were used to alien force and ultimate alien.Interaction with charecter of omniverse was ruined because of the change of artstyle & huge step down of characters.WE NEED THE OLD SHOWS BACK AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE THINKS CARTOONS NEEDS TO BE DARK.BUT IT'S NOT 100% TRUE....
My most fav. And emotional scene is when... When ben transforms into all his aliens... He transformed so far since my childhood... In the last epdisode of Omniverse 😭😭❤️❤️❤️ It was touching
Imma disagree.. We cant handle this childish behavior on comic based bad ass superheroes Prooving it on the thumbnail-teen titans go is a really childish cartoon(not bad whatsoever)and when they bring the cool badass looking versions of themselves all the kids are like woah i wish it was like that
For a prime example of this, The Legend of Korra is what happens when you take Avatar: The Last Airbender but make it dark and don't have good characters.
I should add, Korra does have a few good characters, but they're hardly ever the focus of the show. The main ensemble of Korra, Bolin, Mako, and Asami is terrible.
One do not need it to be dark. But I find dark series to be great. It to me makes a lot of shows realistic in a sense. Make the world seem like it could exist. I guess I view cartoons and such to be just another way to tell a story. And while stories that are light and fluffy may be nice and all. A darker series will more often stick with me. Warhammer, Berserk. Grim stuff. Then again, I am the type of person who kinda want dark main characters too. XD A cynical heart or something like that. It is probably due to my cynicism and grim view of the world. But I think even children should be exposed to pretty dark themes. See that not all people, even the nice seeming once may not be as nice as they seem. Even those people around you that are nicest may have their own agendas and selfish reasons for helping out. I would like to see main characters who walk over hundreds of people just to get stronger so he can protect his clan. Stealing. Murdering. It do not matter if it is "wrong". If the leader of the clan would ask for it, the main character would go kidnap a talented girl with some special blood to be his wife. Naturally it should not be as dark as the stuff teenagers should have available, but still. >.> Then again, being a bit of a freedom extremist I have the opinion that teenagers should basically get to do almost anything they want. _________________________________________________________ When it comes down to it, I think there should be all sorts of shows for every taste. Shows aimed at different groups.
As always, Great video Kuro! Inb4, "But drAgon baLL iS An aNiMe, NoT a caRToOn" comments from people who doesn't even know what the word "Anime" means.
Jero Valentin I think what people mean is that cartoons are meant for kids(not all just the majority) while anime is for teens to adults(again not all just majority)
Waqas Omar The funny thing is that's still an American stereotype based on a romanticized idea of Japanese media. They have a bunch, and I mean A BUNCH of kid shows. They have some as popular and ever-present for them as SpongeBob and Micky Mouse are for the US. It's just that we only tend to look for shows we hear about, or simply shows meant for teens and above. Their kids may watch things like Hellsing Ultimate, but kids in America also watch rated R content, so that's not really saying anything.
Man DC needs to see this. They had great concepts, lore and everything but then they stuck to adult jokes, sweres ,blood and you know the drill. I personally like dark stuff( must be why I loved ben 10 ae upto the hibreed war but hated the new arrogant ben that came after)but dark isn't rhe same thing as violent. Dark is the basis of something serious. Spiritual. Not adult garbage.
Being unwilling to even briefly become darker and more serious at the appropriate times can seriously hurt the believability and relatableness of the show. Avatar TLA wasn't an overly dark show by any means, but it had plenty of darker moments that dealt with death and injury. If they'd pretended like nobody had died or gotten seriously injured over the course of the 100 year war, would anybody have been able to actually believe that? If they made it obvious that nobody was ever in real danger from the Fire Nation, would the series have been as compelling?
All people are addicted towards darkness and edginess. Kamen Rider is suffering from people demands to be darker and edgier and so does every super hero show.
Kuro the Artist, I do agree with most of what you said, but I'm on the side that's been complaining about how cartoon channels (mainly Cartoon Network) has recently been producing nothing but comedy based shows and they're not even the good comedy. Shows like TTG and the 2016 reboot of the PPG are just watered down versions of the originals that are catered to kids 8 and under. I strongly believe that cartoon programs are supposed to have a variety of genres at anytime; too many cartoons with the same premise and genre might as well be the same show, but with different characters.
Look I agree with he whole ''trying to hard to be dark is bad writing''However its not a constant problem as you think it is,the only shows I can think of that do's fall into this category is ''Steven Universe''''Voltron''and RWBY,while most cartoons today are basically light hearted for example,clarence,uncle grandpa,the amazing world of gumball,regular show,TTG,the power puff girls reboot,the ben 10 reboot,MLP, Big city greens,We bare bears,rick and morty, OK KO,Might magi sword,milo murphy's law, pickle and peanut etc. so I just don't see it as the prevalent problem,while its legitimate criticism and something writers should be aware of and You did make some great points on to why cartoons shouldn't try to hard to be dark I feel like a lot of cartoons understand this for example you used ONE moment from''adventure time'' as an example of a show trying to be dark when in truth that just an occasional moment its not a moment of show value because this rarely happens and its why even if its just a dark moment it carry's a lot of what because the show makes it mean something,to carry out that the villain there fighting is menacing and since the characters are interesting beforehand the same can be said about a lot of cartoons today Star v.s the forces of evil,The dragon prince,Troll hunters,Bojack horseman,samurai jack season 5,castlevania,aggretsuko,she-ra and the princesses of power,Last man,sym bionic titan,young justice are examples of modern cartoons that strike a balance with there more darker moments and focus on there characters more
Shows like Teen Titans would thrive on other networks such as Netflix because then the revenue doesn’t have to primarily come from toy sales. This would also attract more teen and young adult viewers, which I would say, would be the target audience for these shows
A show doesn't need to be dark and gritty, just don't give us a shit fest like teen titans go. (Even though i like the movie for its jabs at other DC movies like green lantern)
Look, I do agree with most of what you had said in your video, but using the "scape the cidadel" episode from adventure time as an example for the "it's only dark andnot relatable" wasn't a good example at all, that episode was about Finn trying to find his father because he want to understand more about himself, and not only he failed but he lose his own arm as an permanent reminder of that memory, how can this not be relatable?
But nobody wants darker or serious all they want is a very good cartoon that use to be not the so called comedy i know im a little harsh about it but im going to pretend that Teen Titans Go never existed in my life. P.s Im a big fan of your work keep it up.
You! bite! your! tongue! As teenage guys, dark and edgy is how we love our cartoons! On the other hand, thank you for bringing up relationship with characters. When I'm creating my script, I do try hard to fit my characters in with realistic situations as well, and not just dark and gritty things.
Teen Titans was canceled because too many females were watching it. They then thought, "We don't want to be competing with ourselves, we need to separate the sexes." Thus the show was cancelled and now we have the trash shoot that is Teen Titans GO.
that was Young Justice. And even then that was proven wrong, it was the fact that it didnt sell enough toys even though it had good ratings (CN's stupid sometimes), same with Sym-Bionic Titan.
As someone who does say this a lot I just want a balance of comedy and action. If it’s two separate shows or 1 with both sides. I just think we need a balance ( also I’m 6 minutes into it and I just wanted to say what I think about it even if no one sees this)
Dude, it's a Kids show The generations change, they arent like u when u where a kid, they Are different, and TTG its a cartoon for those new Kids, Not like TT, That was a series whit a cartoony style whit a more darker plots. PS: It's Not A Reebot If It Was A "Reboot* as u Say, it Would Be The same.
@@hypershadic3333 I think they pulled it off pretty well, although the DC animated movies were dark, and some times too dark, I don’t think Apokilips war was one of those times. The constant deaths of characters built up anticipation because in this movie anyone can die and the audience knows it, whilst a lot of the gore and brutality is just there for shock value, it really does hammer in the point that this is the end and anything can happen.
10:20 I don't like Steven Universe but that clip shouldn't have been there. Steven Universe is only dark on occasion and most of the time its silly it almost always fails at being funny but it attempts at humor.
Adult animated shows and Cartoons are two different things then. Shows like Invincible, Vox Machina, Animes those features regular deaths and emotional drama. I guess next time someone ask what "kind of cartoons you like" imma simply reply with "Adult action animated tv shows" that way it will cover everything.
I miss the only Ben 10, the Danny Phantom, and the old Teen Titans. When they rebooted them I was so sad cause it wasn’t for my age demographic anymore.
The best way I can put is in this: It’s one thing to make a dark situation and atmosphere, it’s how the characters react and affect the world around them that makes a good show. Courage the Cowardly Dog shows a terrifying world with equally horrific creatures and beasts, and Courage is just a dog. Even through all the horror, Courage lives up to his namesake and braves through the fear to save the people who love him, and even shows compassion to those who have been wrongfully judged (especially those who scared him at first). Teen Titans was good for showing how each Titan was able to learn and grow through each trial. The show actually tackled how being different and being judged for that affects them. I want to work on, and create, shows with that kind of love for their audiences. I want to inspire the next generation the way I was. Being different doesn’t make you better or worse, the hard times are God’s way of testing us, and you will have to make a lot of tough choices (a lot of which have no real happy ending).
Sorry but characters like bugs bunny, daffy duck, and tom and jerry are not one dimensional characters like with Jerry and tom, jerry is kind hearted, smart, goofy, and is just looking to have fun or just survive and with tom he's cocky, egotistical, prone to angry, he's stubborn but does still have a goofyness very similar to Jerry's
I want more shows like bojack horseman. Animated adult shows in a world only animation can make that know when to not throw in a fart joke and get serious with serious stakes, situations, or emotions. Characters we can relate to but there is some adult darkness. that's why I love anime. For example, naruto is very comical, but it can get serious with real stakes such as death, abandonment, world building, and war. I could list off like 10+ other anime, but my thesis is less family american Simpson's and more bojack and venture bros adult dark cartoons. Although I dont like venture bros because it's not my cup of tea
I agree with the sentiment but I feel like you're straight up depreciating newer cartoons in favor of older ones. You only use "Adventure Time" and "Steven Universe" as examples of being dark and gritty for the sake of it when those shows are doing EXACTLY what you're praising those old cartoons for. Many times, they do it better. I sense there's a big bias here.
Justice League, The Batman Shows, The Superman and other dc shows, The Marvel shows, The adventure time episodes with character development and SAMURAI JACK want to know your location
*In the west **Mainstream animation I agree with most of your other points, but never say cartoons *shouldn't* X,Y, or Z. Animation *can* be used for dark, gritty material and that can have merit. So can wholly zany, lighthearted material. Same with everything in between. Don't put cartoons in a box.
I wouldn't say that representation is important. Putting a character in a story to represent a group, but without knowing anyone or anything from that group will make unreliable characters for these groups. Having realistic characters is more important than representing groups. But that's my opinion.
Take steven universe for example There are dark scenes like steven is fricken is dieying but the rest of the show is dealing with the dificult life of steven as he learns the truth about his mom and the filler episodes are for laughs and giggles i mean thats how the show started People like steven universe not becuse of dark scenes but the character development in each and every season heck SU future exists to teach us to deal with our own problems than others first The show has dark and action scenes but what intreges people is just well the life of a hybrid that has to deal with his mothers problems and questions his own identady the show teaches us like other shows the kuro mentioned How hard life can be when you grow up thats why SU is a jolly good show (Sorry for the bad english)
Kuro your boiling things down into very simplistic reasoning, the fact is that shows that don’t deal with darker themes tend to be written poorly they tend to have no build up or climax in the episode making them very shallow ad lib writing in every regard not saying they’re isn’t a time and a place for shows that are silly and colorful but they’re is also a place for good story. Also I’m pretty sure teen titans didn’t get cancelled because of its darker themes making it unrelatable it was canceled due to the sixth season pitch not being liked by executives and it had already reached 65 episodes.
I think the reason people say that is because, at least in the West, cartoons are treated as just for kids. Also, a good character and a relatable character are not the same thing. A strong character can be relatable, but not all relatable characters are good characters, and not all good characters are relatable.
I think the reason why Kuro The Artist was saying that relatable characters are good characters is that every character, even one who is a terrible "person" needs to be relatable because you must find some way to see where they're coming from. Lex Luthor is a good example, even though he does terrible things all the time he has actual motivations. Like how he personally feels as if he is "saving" the Earth from Superman. That is why every character is the protagonist of their own story.
Kevin Pham
adult swim?
I agree with the characters idea. Every person is a hero in his/her story.
this kinda explains my problem with the dmc fan base,some thing with a pathetic gameplay and character traits as nero is beloved for some reason,and i guess i should just accept it and move on.
For me personally, I believe that a good character must be passionate or motivated. well they don't necessarily have to be relatable, you want to know where they're coming from, whether or not you agree with where they're coming from. Tokyo Godfathers is a perfect example. The shows about three hobos during the week between Christmas and New Year's. before the plot begins, they practically accepted their place in life. They all have a past that they would rather run away from him be homeless if it means that they would never have to face their demons again. But then comes a baby that they find in a dumpster, a baby that one of them calls Hope. As they try to figure out who the the parents of the baby are and how she ended up in the dumpster, they are each forced to face their past, accept their mistakes, and move forward knowing that they forgive themselves. You can make the argument that these characters are not relatable as how they act between each other alone would make you glad that they're in their position. But as you learn where they come from and why they act the way they do to each other as well as themselves, you start to Hope that they can be better people and in turn have better lives. Their motivation to return the baby back to her parents is what makes them interesting, and thus, in my eyes, good characters.
It's almost like it's good writing that makes good shows.
Woah big brain
Woah my gosh
Yeah
Like Rick and Morty
The Episode
The Ricklantis Mixup
You mean like how in real life not every single moment is a joke or just super grim dark
I think a common thing is people are confusing real dialogue and growth with “darkness”. Not every cartoon is to have real conversations within the genre but certain cartoons such as the OG Titans, has those conversations. It one thing that made it relatable and great. Which is why there is such a divisive fan base when it comes to TT. It is necessarily that TTGo is bad it’s the fact that TTGo mocks the image of the TT that was waited for by so many fans who wanted to see conclusions to many stories that felt left on an open note without it being purposely left that way.
AJ Ward TRUTH
Yes, I Totally Agree. So many People mistake Character Growth and actual Maturity with Edginess.
It would flanderize the characters. Did everyone forget that terra at the end wanted to be left alone and that the answer doesnt matter because it shouldn't matter?
@@wanderingoryx3710 that was the perfect ending to the show because if you think about it , it make a lot of sense
I’m waiting for the darker and grittier Cory in the house
the best anime ever is already perfect
@@bigbangpegasusmaster I've seen better
+David Martinez like Seinfeld?
@@nightwinggamer5366 Exactly!!! Now we're talkin
Cory in the ghetto
Shows never NEED to be dark. They just need to have good animation, characters, and most importantly, writing.
Wakko Warner the darkness isn't necessary.
Writing to me is only good when the writer has a wider grasp of the society their demographic is in, than what the market demands you to adhere to. Marketing something specific about a show or character is often much worse off than when a writer knows how to present something with their own awareness of concepts shown in the writing.
Shows never need to be light-hearted too
Exactlly. Let's face it a Superhero TV shoe is a Superhero show NOT some immature Pre-School they go out there they put on there suits, place there boots on the ground and they save the world. Just like The Men and Women in The Branch of Service. Hell I hated when Parent's act like Hypocrites.
They can be, but definitely not required.
People mean mature when they say ‘Dark’ it’s because 50% of people still think cartoons are for kids. Exploring interesting themes and mature stuff, having a good story, having fleshed out characters we can relate are all important yet there’s still people out there who see cartoons as for kids and try to do just comedy. Comedy is fun but when the industry is oversaturated, people get bored
You act like kids want comedy from cartoons only when in reality, they do want something more than comedy, like action.
no mature cartoons aren't good either some or most of them got banned because of that
Send this to the writers of the DCEU
icecream hero lol
They need to see this
Then Aquaman and Shazam! exist.
@icecream hero yep
@@felix4508 2 out 9 isnt very good
It's almost as if networks forgot why the old cartoons where good
*Were
Its because we are used to the dark and serious moments while kids are not as much.....And thats what cartoon network is,a kids channel.The era of 2000-2010 was great but changes have to come..may not be good or bad
Duncan Sterken were*
well im not gonna say the cleshey OLD CARTOONS WAS GOOD AND NEW CARTOONS IS BAD i wont say its bad because its trying to appeal to a new era like how it did in the early 2000-2011 and how it did and the 90s and 80s every set of cartoons is differnt because its trys to appeal what kids like and what kids like now is....dabs........and lets be honest he always had that one cartoon or movie that was boring for boring in the 90s was doug IMO and for the early 200s (where i grew up in) was all grown up....even tho i liked it alot of people thought it was boring and now its marvel spiderman things always change and i think the cartoons changed (and i count 2012 as early 200s because yeah)
@@spuburq can you explain more? idk what your trying to say
Basically, a show doesn't have to be Darker & Serious or Lighter & SIlly to be Badass. It just had to be Badass to be Badass. :P
People also confuse being dark with maturity. What makes the show mature isn't what's in it, but how those subjects and situations are treated. Take death for example. Death itself doesn't make something mature, it just means that death exists in the show. What matters is if death (the subject) is treated with maturity and respect. That truly what makes something mature.
What if people can be brought back to life in a show? Doesn't that lower the believability?
Wandering Oryx a lot. Especially if it is by a mcguffin that is overutilized cough cough dragon ball cough cough.
Andres Marrero but thats a silly fun show that people take seriously. Like wrestling.
Wandering Oryx I am just using it as an example and it's story telling has gotten pretty bad. But death there has no meaning, it has no weight, it cannot be taken with the seriousness and maturity that is required, because you can just bring them back with the mcguffin any damage can be undone. There can be no lasting impact or effect or consequence, because you got something that can undo all of that. You lose the sanctity of life, and that makes for a very bad story.
Andres Marrero did you mistake story for franchise?
Just because a catroon is "serious" or "edgy" doesn't mean it's good
*cough* Mr. Pickles *cough*
The Litch That's just slapstick, it's not serious at all.
muntu1221 Well it's slapstick that is not done well at all
Just because a "catroon" is "unable to take itself seriously" or "lighthearted" doesn't mean it's good
God Of Death who's Mr. Pickles
@@RedK5 a show on Adult Swim about a murderous dog called Mr Pickles. That's the gist of it at least.
Uncle grandpa was total trash for the first 4 seasons, but it was the fifth season was where it actually got watchable, when it seemed like the writers started caring. Don't get me wrong, it was still very odd, but, one day while watching an episode I noticed a common theme: The writers- the characters, in the show reinforce this idea that its OK to be, well, WEIRD. No one at a younger age likes being told they are weird and are shamed because of it, but Uncle Grandpa teaches you that YOU are YOU, and even if others view you as weird, its OK, because no one is in a sense, NORMAL, people just like to make you think that. The message really hit home with me, as I've been very conscious of my appearance and reputation throughout my whole life, Uncle Grandpa tries to show its perfectly fine to be different. Maybe I'm reading too much into but that's how I saw it.
Uncle Grandpa was always hit and miss. Some episodes are really funny others try too hard to be funny the funniest episode they ever did was when Pizza Steve and Uncle Grandpa get stuck on the escalator.
I haven't seen much of "Uncle Grandpa," but I remember its crossover with "Steven Universe" also had a similar message to what you described. Nonetheless, it's still good lesson.
Nope Mang A broken clock is right twice a day
Yeah uncle grandpa Had funny and shitty episodes
id give it a chance but
Yeah I agree. Being dark doesn't make you show or movie good. Look at batman v superman. It's dark but that doesn't make it a good movie. In fact it has a tons of problems. A good show is a series filled with well written and relatable characters. Not all of them have to be relatable but having some relatable characters is one of the things that makes the show good. So great video kuro 👍.
It's about a balance between good characters and a good plot. They don't need to be darker they just need to not treat kids like they're stupidity personified. If you don't baby talk a baby then it'll learn to speak faster and if you do it'll take more unnecessary years.
We arnt asking for a Dark Show, or a fully serious show, and we arnt saying that ALL Cartoons to be mature. We just need two things. For reboots to RESPECT the source material (looking at you Teen Titans Go) and at the very least 2 or 3 MATURE shows. Mature doesn't Realy need to be Dark or Serious, hell they don't even have to have violence. But we're adults that grew up with badass cartoons like Ben 10 and Samuri Jack, and whilst those have violence in them, its not JUST action we want, we want the struggle the characters went through, and the genuine character moments that come with those moments. Like Ben Using the Omnitrix ia way a true 10 year old boy would, or jack working with the people of the future how you would expect. We need a few Animated Series that Work like these shows. Less and less animated shows are being as Up There like they were in the past. Kids do like Dark and gritty and comedy TOGETHER, But we don't want what they're giving us as of now because they, like you said, went full Goofball and swept all the Cool stuff under the rug.
I do agree that Relatability is a strong necessity that is, well, necessary for good storytelling. But if you want to see a good example of what I'm talking about, look at the powerpuff girl reboot and compare it to the original.
The reboot focuses on the downtime, and has the girls go to school, get sick, do raps, and some other stuff
But the cool action and wit of the original series is why we watched it as kids. It was Visceral and colorful, and over all things, Creative
Eh. I don't know. If anyone wants to start a disgussion here or tell me your opinions, go ahead. I'm glad to hear
Inigmian Studios teen titans go is a fantastic parody of the original they totally respect the source material. I love the episode were they met young justice that explained why both shows work
Like ravens dad is a silly fun loving guy they couldn't get it more wrong if they tried. It feels like something beast boy would make up to try and get a reaction out of raven
Daragh O'kane oh shit. That makes sence.
Now that I'm looking at it as a perody my hatred for the show has been dowsed Compleatly. Thankg bro
it's kinda telling when the ben 10 reboot is easily the best of the 3 (PPG2016 and TTG), it's not great, I'd say it's ok at best, but at least they're (mostly) not insulting the audience and given his circumstances (aka, max and gwen keeping him in check way less than in the original show,, which at least in max's case I don't like), ben at least feels like he's doing what a kid his age would do.
Gaming and Stuff I kinda like comedy that insults a makes fun of me. People need to be able to laugh at there favourite things it's weird that they can't
Not everything needs to be dark or serious but I’d enjoy something of that nature just existing at all. I mean all I’m asking for is at least like... Xialoin Showdown level of seriousness i feel like that’s not asking that much for something of that level to at least exist along side the current amorphous comedy blob
You're correct for the most part, although I'll have to disagree that 'relatable = good'. I believe that it's possible for a character to relatable but 'poorly' written.
Although I don't this is exactly what you meant, since I could also say that all "good characters are relatable, but not all relatable characters are good", which makes more sense (at least to me) and seems like what you were going for.
At the same time however, a character's relatability is what offers the audience something to connect with - if the audience connects then that means they'll want to watch more, which is what any cartoon producer would want.
And the fact that he was saying teen Titans wasn’t popular
Villains are good characters but not relatable unless if they have a backstory to tell. Arthur Fleck, for example, is a good character who is sympathetic due to his mental health and a hard life, but not relatable because... of course he's the Joker -- a clown villain who committed multiple criminal activities and genocide towards others.
Dceu fans be like: 6:53
emotional weight + comedic levity = balance
I think you misunderstand the argument. People are arguing for more dark and grit. They're saying there's too much from the opposite side. based on your examples, this sounds like an outdated topic.
DrakeVagabond there needs to be a balence.
One causes the other
*Insert edgy song here*
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Hmm, this doesn't sale
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"Lul So Random 😂😂😂 24/7"
There needs to be a balance of drama and comedy; too much of one and not enough of the other ruins the show. Also, too many Western cartoons are geared solely towards children; cartoons need more diversity beyond the 5-16 year old demographic.
"You don't need an edgy show to be a good one just have some good f*cking writing"
-Some random guy in discord
While I agree with your overall point (that developing great characters that one can sympathize or empathize with is better than making something edgy for the sake of being edgy), I disagree that Steven Universe is an example of the latter. In fact, I’d argue it probably takes more of the Hey Arnold approach since it’s mostly focused on character development and everyday scenarios while only occasionally advancing the fantastic (as in being fantasy, not a judgement on its quality) alien-related story.
Everyone acts like the 2003 teen titans was pure dark and gritty when it wasn’t. Remember when Beast Boy turned into a dog and got kidnapped by a child like alien? How about when Killer Moth blackmailed Robin into taking his daughter to her prom? Then there’s my personal favorite of the comedic episodes: Mother May I. When an evil witch hypnotizes the titans into thinking she’s their mother.
I think most people remember that show because it knew how to balance its tone with each episode, but people seem to forget the sillier moments
I know I am late, but I just wanted to say that you sir are splitting facts. I am glad you are looking at the bigger picture. I always knew that darkness, serious and maturity is NOT what makes a great cartoon or even a great entertainment content in general. I know for a fact that darkness, seriousness and maturity is NOT inappropriate for kids and isn't only for adults, because kids in general do love those stuffs and can literally handle than some teens and adults think they can. For example, Kid Cosmic is cartoon show aimed at kids, therefore it's kids cartoon show and there is nothing wrong with that. It was a great cartoon/kids cartoon show because it was made by people with passion, not the target audience nor the tone of the series, no just passion.
It's a shame cartoons get a bad rap every so often, most people immediately categorize "cartoon" as simple kids entertainment just to keep them busy. But cartoons (to me personally) are another form of expressive art and story telling. It's the same with movies, comic books, novels, art itself and even legend (to some extent), creative ways to tell stories and benefit generations of people by having them connect with these characters as well as be inspired by them.
I hate how people confuse darkness with maturity
I think there is something you horribly misunderstood. When people say they want shows to be "darker", this doesn't mean to show blood or murder or whatnot, but for the show to not be afraid to explore "dark" themes. That's why shows like the weekenders or hey Arnold were so popular, because they DID explore dark themes. Abandonment, mistreatment, substitute families, dealing with pressure, mental breakdowns ... all these are dark themes that were explored in these cartoons and that's what made them great. In contrast, shows like TTG fail because, while they do have dark things in them, they are played for shits and giggles, rather than explored in an understandable way. And that is not a new phenomenon, things have ALWAYS been this way. Even back in the 90's, plenty of cartoons were just mindless dribbles for kids, with the few standout shows that we remember today. Darker and more serious simply means "not shying away from exploring problems that characters have", which too many cartoons do. They gloss over potential gems in favor of keeping it light and fluffy - you know for the kids.
The show miraculous ladybug is a good example of that. It's immensely popular and I love it too, but there are SO many things in there that could go from good to great if only the creators were less afraid to touch upon them. I don't need Adrien to be suicidal or anything, but I would like an episode or two that breaks away from the normal formula to explore what his broken home life does to him and how being Chat Noir gives him relief from that and allows him to be himself. It's there, in the show, almost every episode, but that's all there's to it; it's just there. It's very rarely touched upon and never really delved into, Break away from the effing "kid-friendly" formula and start exploring your characters problems and psyche's more. And yes, that does mean the show has to be "serious and darker". Just not in the way you described it.
Also, animation was literally an art form until AFTER the Hannah-Barbera boom. It was very much taken seriously on a worldwide spectrum. As a matter of fact, before D.W. Griffith's first feature length films, animation was the only type of film coming out of the US that considered art and it stayed that way basically until every studio started copying Tex Avery. If you're going to talk about the history of animation, at least do your research.
That's exactly what this video is about.
Could'n say it better myself for example adventure time is a silly show however its mature because it deals with heavy subject matter such as regret,self expectance,aging,growing up,loss, mental illness,the struggle between security and isolation,imperfection accepting of others and self acceptance,and spirituality while not being over simplified or melodramatic
Great video Kuro, as always. And I pretty much agree with everything, watching shows like Hey Arnold or SpongeBob can have as many "serious" moments as shows like Ben 10 Ultimate Alien or Batman TAS. And characters do play a BIG part in the picture!
Like omniverse, it was light hearted show but had exceeded the limits of dark moments by letting destroy universe, Multiverse and letting have a child face depression and self regret
Adventure time: *had good characters and funny jokes and a storyline*
Cartoon Network: CANCELED NO MORE DO NOT SHOW THIS ANYMORE
Teen titans go: *farts and makes butt jokes*
Cartoon Network: we need to have this playing 24.7
1. Adventure time had butt and fart jokes constantly
2. It barely had a storyline
To be honest, I really love the cartoon character of Doug, both versions from nickelodeon and Disney. Probably more the Disney one since I’m familiar with that company more that I am with nickelodeon. Doug seems to be a very reliable character as he is always looking out for his friends and just wants to impress the girl he really likes, Patti mayonnaise. I always found that to be relatable as I too was a awkward, shy but creative and confident person who grow up to be Caring and thoughtful of other’s feelings and ambitions in life.
Darkness and edgyness, is anime
there are light-hearted anime too though (yokai watch and pokemon would be some examples)
NFF FS that is not exactly true. They do balance comedy, action, dark and gritty scenes.
This has been a *Cartoons and How They Should Work* moment, made possible by *_Kuro The Artist_*
It's not that I want shows to be dark and gritty. A little comedy can help take the edge off it all. Heck, Samurai Jack did this rather well.
The problem is today; "comedy" (and I use the term loosely) seems to consist of farting, sexist behavior, dumbing down the characters, meme references and an overzealous use of shaming those that hate the property.
LOOKING AT YOU, TTG CREATORS!
Stuff like Looney Tunes, classic Simpsons, classic Family Guy...even Avatar: The Last Airbender did comedy splendidly. Either through mocking the enemies, displaying properly outrageous behavior towards dire situations and/or reveling in the fact that they are animated (mostly on Looney Tunes part.)
What some people want, these days is not specifically a dark and gritty series. But one that has relatable situations, iconic heroes, adventurous stories and truly menacing villains
I don’t think people hate Teen Titans Go because it’s not dark and serious. They hate it because it has bad writing. People love lighthearted cartoons as well. Just look at Gravity Falls, that cartoon, while it has serious moments, is mostly very goofy and lighthearted, but people still love it because it’s well written.
Nah cartoons dont need to be dark. But if they started out serious/dark like say.... Thundercats and then because a studio decided they couldn't come up with a new show, they decide to take the I.p. and turn it into something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the original; That's where it puts a bad taste in people's mouth. It's no longer about the story, only the money a studio can make from it.
Is Ben 10 a good cartoon?
Yeah it is you can watch it up until omniverse
Drake and Josh was my jam. A really great show.
Quantum Ranger 99 no we need a darker and grittier drake and josh lol
Dark and josh
Great video, Kuro!
You've got a lot of good points here.
I will say though, I'm curious about your stance on diversity in animation and would like to see a video on the topic in the future.
I'm don't think it should be darker and serious but teen Titans is better than teen Titans go
Wayne Nelson I agree on this. The creators of the cartoons are adults and they love cartoons that are made for kids. Teen Titans has a click that’s unique while Teen Titans Go has no way to click with it. Sooner or later Teen Titans Go Fans will realize that they don’t remember TTG because of a cartoon or a reality TV show that connects with the audience will be better than that show. Who knows maybe a creator is already trying to make it.
Teen Titans mixed serious, dark and emotional stuff with funny and lighearted stuff perfectly and thats what i want in my shows most of the time instead of the shows being serious all the time or funny all the time.
This video deserves way more views!
I understood the point of this video and people should also understand that "Lighter and Childish does'nt make cartoon bad."
RIP Dwayne Mcduffy..... The guy that got me interested in Static shock
If seriousness and shock factors made something good, then Shadow the Hedgehog's game is a masterpiece. As much as I love the Sonic franchise, Shadow the Hedgehog is a pretty good example of this whole issue, as Shadow doesn't have any of his interesting and relatable factors he had in Sonic Adventure 2 and even Heroes and is just an edgy guy who swears and kills people.
And yeah, I agree too many cartoons take things to the extreme with seriousness or comedy. There are some cartoons nowadays that do the balance well enough, but not nearly enough do.
The main reason I love something like Teen Titans isn't because it was serious, but because there was that healthy balance between comedy and action which helped give each character a clearly defined personality that let you connect with them. The part that gets me the most about Teen Titans is that, unlike almost every other superhero thing, they remove all of the secret identity stuff, and STILL manage to make relatable characters, as the secret identity is often used to help make them more relatable by having them deal with school and whatnot.
Spectacular Spider Man is a cartoon that does that, but it also weaves the superhero and secret identity stories and emotions together in such a way that you still know this is the same character, who still has the same core issues, yet he's essentially two different people with different problems at any given time. And yet, both of these issues play into each other so well.
When you said "STOP" at the beginning of the video, my screen paused...
I think this problem primarily comes from people outgrowing the usual cartoon format, and instead of moving onto something more mature and more fitting to their grown taste, they instead request the cartoons change with them.
No, the problem is a lack of diversity. If you only having doughnuts to eat for a month. You probably get sick of them.
First name Last name Kye is right. The problem is that entire generations were raised on cartoons, and people assumed they were meant to grow out of them as a medium. Not only that, but unlike past generations, we have proof that the medium can be mature and tell stories worth watching as an adult, so we want more.
It's nobody's fault, not the viewers or the creators. It's just that we, as a potential audience, are saying what would make us tune in to cartoon channels and hoping they will oblige.
@@muntu1221 Agreed.
Yeah, i agree. I'm just tired of all the freakin reboots that have the same animation and style of comedy
ah no not all reboot have same art style
Good video, really opened up my opinions about the media I consume. Just please fix that little blue speck over your skull emblem... kept catching my eye every time it shrunk or got larger
What you said is 100% FACT
I think when people say "Dark and gritty" they actually mean mature. Ben 10, Avatar the last airbender even shaolin showdown are like 75% fun and 25% serious themed, there needs to be a balance. The shows that i have listed above all have an established mythology and have good storytelling with action adventure and comedy in them. The cartoon we have on the air now are mostly just comedy, not to be taken seriously. There is nothing wrong with comedy shows, just saying there needs to be a balance of comedy and action shows.
I feel like we have some more actioned theme shows with more mature subject matter for example shows like adventure time,star v.s force of evil,bojack horseman,troll hunters,castlevania,the dragon prince etc are all shows that strike a balance between humor and dark moments
All cartoons not needs to be dark and mature to become a good cartoon,I will never tell that tom & jerry needs to be darker,but animated shows like Ben 10 should have good mix up of humor,darkness,maturity and action...because Ben 10 has already became a show that people don't want to see it as a sitcom animated show,what was omniverse.When a TV show becomes a unique standard's show there is no need to change the standard.Because people who are watching a show in darker,mature tone and if suddenly it becomes a sitcom where serious villains starts to joke that just makes no sense.And when a artwork became poular and people used to it,and if you change the artstyle,there will always be down rating with a show just like how Ultimate Alien>Omniverse.People were used to alien force and ultimate alien.Interaction with charecter of omniverse was ruined because of the change of artstyle & huge step down of characters.WE NEED THE OLD SHOWS BACK AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE THINKS CARTOONS NEEDS TO BE DARK.BUT IT'S NOT 100% TRUE....
My most fav. And emotional scene is when... When ben transforms into all his aliens... He transformed so far since my childhood... In the last epdisode of Omniverse
😭😭❤️❤️❤️ It was touching
Imma disagree..
We cant handle this childish behavior on comic based bad ass superheroes
Prooving it on the thumbnail-teen titans go is a really childish cartoon(not bad whatsoever)and when they bring the cool badass looking versions of themselves all the kids are like woah i wish it was like that
I'm surprised you don't cover more cartoons but I'm guessing you're very busy with the series you're producing on the channel and your comic.
For a prime example of this, The Legend of Korra is what happens when you take Avatar: The Last Airbender but make it dark and don't have good characters.
I should add, Korra does have a few good characters, but they're hardly ever the focus of the show. The main ensemble of Korra, Bolin, Mako, and Asami is terrible.
One do not need it to be dark. But I find dark series to be great. It to me makes a lot of shows realistic in a sense. Make the world seem like it could exist.
I guess I view cartoons and such to be just another way to tell a story. And while stories that are light and fluffy may be nice and all. A darker series will more often stick with me. Warhammer, Berserk. Grim stuff.
Then again, I am the type of person who kinda want dark main characters too. XD A cynical heart or something like that.
It is probably due to my cynicism and grim view of the world. But I think even children should be exposed to pretty dark themes. See that not all people, even the nice seeming once may not be as nice as they seem. Even those people around you that are nicest may have their own agendas and selfish reasons for helping out.
I would like to see main characters who walk over hundreds of people just to get stronger so he can protect his clan. Stealing. Murdering. It do not matter if it is "wrong". If the leader of the clan would ask for it, the main character would go kidnap a talented girl with some special blood to be his wife.
Naturally it should not be as dark as the stuff teenagers should have available, but still. >.> Then again, being a bit of a freedom extremist I have the opinion that teenagers should basically get to do almost anything they want.
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When it comes down to it, I think there should be all sorts of shows for every taste. Shows aimed at different groups.
As always, Great video Kuro!
Inb4, "But drAgon baLL iS An aNiMe, NoT a caRToOn" comments from people who doesn't even know what the word "Anime" means.
Jero Valentin I think what people mean is that cartoons are meant for kids(not all just the majority) while anime is for teens to adults(again not all just majority)
I get what you're saying. But Cartoons are anime, so that statement doesn't holds up very good.
I think you're reffering to Japanese Animated Series.
Jero Valentin yeah pretty much
Waqas Omar The funny thing is that's still an American stereotype based on a romanticized idea of Japanese media.
They have a bunch, and I mean A BUNCH of kid shows. They have some as popular and ever-present for them as SpongeBob and Micky Mouse are for the US. It's just that we only tend to look for shows we hear about, or simply shows meant for teens and above. Their kids may watch things like Hellsing Ultimate, but kids in America also watch rated R content, so that's not really saying anything.
muntu1221 huh neat
A great example of a not dark show is bluey which is light hearted and just fun but show anyone can enjoy
Man DC needs to see this. They had great concepts, lore and everything but then they stuck to adult jokes, sweres ,blood and you know the drill. I personally like dark stuff( must be why I loved ben 10 ae upto the hibreed war but hated the new arrogant ben that came after)but dark isn't rhe same thing as violent. Dark is the basis of something serious. Spiritual. Not adult garbage.
Being unwilling to even briefly become darker and more serious at the appropriate times can seriously hurt the believability and relatableness of the show.
Avatar TLA wasn't an overly dark show by any means, but it had plenty of darker moments that dealt with death and injury. If they'd pretended like nobody had died or gotten seriously injured over the course of the 100 year war, would anybody have been able to actually believe that? If they made it obvious that nobody was ever in real danger from the Fire Nation, would the series have been as compelling?
All people are addicted towards darkness and edginess. Kamen Rider is suffering from people demands to be darker and edgier and so does every super hero show.
Kuro the Artist, I do agree with most of what you said, but I'm on the side that's been complaining about how cartoon channels (mainly Cartoon Network) has recently been producing nothing but comedy based shows and they're not even the good comedy. Shows like TTG and the 2016 reboot of the PPG are just watered down versions of the originals that are catered to kids 8 and under. I strongly believe that cartoon programs are supposed to have a variety of genres at anytime; too many cartoons with the same premise and genre might as well be the same show, but with different characters.
What? A children's network making programming dedicated to children? The nerve!
Here’s a suggestion. How about moving on to anime?
@@vendaboi8652 cartoons posts to be for Kids it all ways was
to be honest I prefer this kind of video more than you interview videos
so did it get taken down the first time?
Yep.
The bastards haha well keep up the good work
Kuro The Artist Why?
If you and Super Eyepatch Wolf did a crossover, it'd be the best video EVER!!!!!!!
Look I agree with he whole ''trying to hard to be dark is bad writing''However its not a constant problem as you think it is,the only shows I can think of that do's fall into this category is ''Steven Universe''''Voltron''and RWBY,while most cartoons today are basically light hearted for example,clarence,uncle grandpa,the amazing world of gumball,regular show,TTG,the power puff girls reboot,the ben 10 reboot,MLP, Big city greens,We bare bears,rick and morty, OK KO,Might magi sword,milo murphy's law, pickle and peanut etc. so I just don't see it as the prevalent problem,while its legitimate criticism and something writers should be aware of
and You did make some great points on to why cartoons shouldn't try to hard to be dark
I feel like a lot of cartoons understand this
for example you used ONE moment from''adventure time'' as an example of a show trying to be dark when in truth that just an occasional moment
its not a moment of show value because this rarely happens and its why even if its just a dark moment it carry's a lot of what because the show makes it mean something,to carry out that the villain there fighting is menacing and since the characters are interesting beforehand
the same can be said about a lot of cartoons today
Star v.s the forces of evil,The dragon prince,Troll hunters,Bojack horseman,samurai jack season 5,castlevania,aggretsuko,she-ra and the princesses of power,Last man,sym bionic titan,young justice are examples of modern cartoons that strike a balance with there more darker moments and focus on there characters more
Shows like Teen Titans would thrive on other networks such as Netflix because then the revenue doesn’t have to primarily come from toy sales. This would also attract more teen and young adult viewers, which I would say, would be the target audience for these shows
it's Kids who are the targets audience not us
A show doesn't need to be dark and gritty, just don't give us a shit fest like teen titans go. (Even though i like the movie for its jabs at other DC movies like green lantern)
Look, I do agree with most of what you had said in your video, but using the "scape the cidadel" episode from adventure time as an example for the "it's only dark andnot relatable" wasn't a good example at all, that episode was about Finn trying to find his father because he want to understand more about himself, and not only he failed but he lose his own arm as an permanent reminder of that memory, how can this not be relatable?
But nobody wants darker or serious all they want is a very good cartoon that use to be not the so called comedy i know im a little harsh about it but im going to pretend that Teen Titans Go never existed in my life.
P.s
Im a big fan of your work keep it up.
No it needs darkness only we need both of light and darkness
You! bite! your! tongue! As teenage guys, dark and edgy is how we love our cartoons! On the other hand, thank you for bringing up relationship with characters. When I'm creating my script, I do try hard to fit my characters in with realistic situations as well, and not just dark and gritty things.
Teen Titans was canceled because too many females were watching it. They then thought, "We don't want to be competing with ourselves, we need to separate the sexes." Thus the show was cancelled and now we have the trash shoot that is Teen Titans GO.
that was Young Justice. And even then that was proven wrong, it was the fact that it didnt sell enough toys even though it had good ratings (CN's stupid sometimes), same with Sym-Bionic Titan.
As someone who does say this a lot I just want a balance of comedy and action. If it’s two separate shows or 1 with both sides. I just think we need a balance ( also I’m 6 minutes into it and I just wanted to say what I think about it even if no one sees this)
Teen titans go and Ben 10 reboot are bad for old audience cause it’s too childish and do immature jokes. So many immature jokes...
Sebastián De la Hoz but it’s not like made for you it’s made for a different audience
NO!! THE OG TEEN TITANS ARE AWESOME!!!! THE REBOOT IS ABSOLUTE SHIT!!!!!!
Dude, it's a Kids show The generations change, they arent like u when u where a kid, they Are different, and TTG its a cartoon for those new Kids, Not like TT, That was a series whit a cartoony style whit a more darker plots.
PS: It's Not A Reebot If It Was A "Reboot* as u Say, it Would Be The same.
DCEU really needs to watch this.
Tbh I think dc in general because I seen a movie called justice league dark apocalypse war and it was edgy and it was wired to
@@hypershadic3333 I think they pulled it off pretty well, although the DC animated movies were dark, and some times too dark, I don’t think Apokilips war was one of those times.
The constant deaths of characters built up anticipation because in this movie anyone can die and the audience knows it, whilst a lot of the gore and brutality is just there for shock value, it really does hammer in the point that this is the end and anything can happen.
It's not that things need to be "dark and serious" to be good, but TTG is pretty terrible even if you don't compare it to the original.
Make a show like Avatar and Ben 10. Good Writing.
10:20 I don't like Steven Universe but that clip shouldn't have been there. Steven Universe is only dark on occasion and most of the time its silly it almost always fails at being funny but it attempts at humor.
Cartoons got people to comfortable with dark and edgy and people wanted more I have a solution anime
Adult animated shows and Cartoons are two different things then.
Shows like Invincible, Vox Machina, Animes those features regular deaths and emotional drama. I guess next time someone ask what "kind of cartoons you like" imma simply reply with "Adult action animated tv shows" that way it will cover everything.
Finally someone with more than one brain cell
I miss the only Ben 10, the Danny Phantom, and the old Teen Titans. When they rebooted them I was so sad cause it wasn’t for my age demographic anymore.
The best way I can put is in this: It’s one thing to make a dark situation and atmosphere, it’s how the characters react and affect the world around them that makes a good show. Courage the Cowardly Dog shows a terrifying world with equally horrific creatures and beasts, and Courage is just a dog. Even through all the horror, Courage lives up to his namesake and braves through the fear to save the people who love him, and even shows compassion to those who have been wrongfully judged (especially those who scared him at first). Teen Titans was good for showing how each Titan was able to learn and grow through each trial. The show actually tackled how being different and being judged for that affects them. I want to work on, and create, shows with that kind of love for their audiences. I want to inspire the next generation the way I was. Being different doesn’t make you better or worse, the hard times are God’s way of testing us, and you will have to make a lot of tough choices (a lot of which have no real happy ending).
Sorry but characters like bugs bunny, daffy duck, and tom and jerry are not one dimensional characters like with Jerry and tom, jerry is kind hearted, smart, goofy, and is just looking to have fun or just survive and with tom he's cocky, egotistical, prone to angry, he's stubborn but does still have a goofyness very similar to Jerry's
👍🏻
All this said, I want better adult animated shows that rely on narrative archs and emotions rather than crass humor.
I want more shows like bojack horseman. Animated adult shows in a world only animation can make that know when to not throw in a fart joke and get serious with serious stakes, situations, or emotions. Characters we can relate to but there is some adult darkness. that's why I love anime. For example, naruto is very comical, but it can get serious with real stakes such as death, abandonment, world building, and war. I could list off like 10+ other anime, but my thesis is less family american Simpson's and more bojack and venture bros adult dark cartoons. Although I dont like venture bros because it's not my cup of tea
I agree with the sentiment but I feel like you're straight up depreciating newer cartoons in favor of older ones. You only use "Adventure Time" and "Steven Universe" as examples of being dark and gritty for the sake of it when those shows are doing EXACTLY what you're praising those old cartoons for.
Many times, they do it better. I sense there's a big bias here.
He also did say it may because of the plot that needed the darkness. But yeah i get your point his examples might lead to misundertandings
Cartoons don’t be dark the just need to stop dumbing top the shows
Justice League, The Batman Shows, The Superman and other dc shows, The Marvel shows, The adventure time episodes with character development and SAMURAI JACK want to know your location
Why don't the suit of Ben's Saiyan form cover his chest? How stupid is that!? Oh and why does one of the forms have Sonic arms? I hate it.
*In the west
**Mainstream animation
I agree with most of your other points, but never say cartoons *shouldn't* X,Y, or Z. Animation *can* be used for dark, gritty material and that can have merit. So can wholly zany, lighthearted material. Same with everything in between. Don't put cartoons in a box.
I wouldn't say that representation is important. Putting a character in a story to represent a group, but without knowing anyone or anything from that group will make unreliable characters for these groups. Having realistic characters is more important than representing groups. But that's my opinion.
I’ll agree but I don’t think the og teen titans got cancelled because it was dark I think was another reason
Take steven universe for example
There are dark scenes like steven is fricken is dieying but the rest of the show is dealing with the dificult life of steven as he learns the truth about his mom and the filler episodes are for laughs and giggles i mean thats how the show started
People like steven universe not becuse of dark scenes but the character development in each and every season heck SU future exists to teach us to deal with our own problems than others first
The show has dark and action scenes but what intreges people is just well the life of a hybrid that has to deal with his mothers problems and questions his own identady the show teaches us like other shows the kuro mentioned
How hard life can be when you grow up thats why SU is a jolly good show
(Sorry for the bad english)
(thumbs up)
Kuro your boiling things down into very simplistic reasoning, the fact is that shows that don’t deal with darker themes tend to be written poorly they tend to have no build up or climax in the episode making them very shallow ad lib writing in every regard not saying they’re isn’t a time and a place for shows that are silly and colorful but they’re is also a place for good story. Also I’m pretty sure teen titans didn’t get cancelled because of its darker themes making it unrelatable it was canceled due to the sixth season pitch not being liked by executives and it had already reached 65 episodes.
this reminds me Ben 10 reboot
It would get boring for me if a cartoon only have laughter and jokes
Ben10 and the original Teen Titans were the greatest cartoons of all time ( save for Darkwing Duck)
No Fart Jokes