Great video and a timely subject for me, even though we don’t have an ASHP. Our gas boiler is capable of running weather compensation but was never set up to run it. For its last service we got a Heat Geek installer to check it out. His recommendation is similar to yours. Open loop, and the removal of inefficient extra pumps around the UFH manifold. We’ve never felt our UFH was as effective as it should be. After watching Heat Geeks at work we’re confident that our running costs and comfort levels will improve as a result. Good luck with your upcoming work.
We had a Ashp installed in 2020...initially set up with a constant flow temp and buffer and also gave a low Cop... Since we moved to weather comp and removed the buffer the cop has improved by 20 percent or so and the plant room is alot cooler... Good luck with your plans...
Thanks for sharing @russelljulier ... it's 100% the way to go, and I wish more installers would see this is the most efficient way forward. What brand heat pump do you?
We have a Daikin Altherma 16KW, installed as part of a Government Electrification of Heat Trial, we run the system as a single zone with TRVs on the radiators mostly set fully open...the system can maintain a temperature of 19-20 degC with an EPC rating of C. @@RenewableHeatingHub
Hi to you both. I followed the early months of your installation experience and had a few email exchanges with you at the time but have missed the intervening developments. It certainly looks like you suffered from being an early adopter but it is great that your installer has stuck with you throughout - you and the installer have learned a lot in the process. This was an excellent video and you covered all the major points perfectly. It is lamentable that installers avoid future customer interaction by encouraging set point (fixed flow temp) operation and cloak or dismiss weather compensation - this applies in the gas boiler market too. I am running a Viessmann 200 gas boiler on weather compensation with ‘cold radiators’ - it is fantastic. (The boiler is too young to trash for ASHP - but that is my trajectory). Are you intending to fit open energy monitoring equipment - it is a force for good?😉 I will re-engage with your journey to follow developments. If there is anything to learn over the last few years it is system design is everything, good heating engineers are scarce and most installed systems are over powered, over controlled, over pumped and under performing. Thanks for sharing the update.👍
It's great to hear from you again; it certainly has been some time. While we're likely not pursuing the open energy monitoring path, I came across something quite intriguing regarding monitoring this morning that has sparked my excitement. Thank you for your continued support over the years - it's been immensely valued. Expect many more updates and videos in the coming weeks.
Here we installed a 4Kw heatpump with weather compensation. Set at 20C with slope 1C/C, so at 0C outside the CH water becomes 40C. Floor heating and radiators installed, living room temperature set at 19C. We used 220KWhr for heating over the month of February with an average COP of 4.45. Hybrid system, but the gas heater did not kick in for heating, only for warm water, 19m^3 of natural gas including cooking.
Glad you’ve seen improvements. Just a note to say that I have Heatmiser stats (hardwired) and they are all about 1.5-2deg out of whack compared to a decent calibrated thermometer. If you use your IR camera on the stat you’ll see it emits a fair amount of heat and I believe this skews the accuracy. I calibrated mine down and seems better.
Thanks for the tip and feedback on the Heatmiser stats. Never even crossed my mind because the rooms feel similar to the temperature indicated by the stats, but does warrant an investigation. Thanks for that.
Brilliant. A huge reduction but is that total electricity for the house or just for the heating? I think we live at similar temperatures and we use the whole 165sq.m house 24x7 but our total energy usage over the past 90 days was 2140kWh. Heating is with our two air-to-air mini-split heat pumps 👍 but I have to admit that 4 weeks ago we had our ancient (condemned) gas boiler replaced with a new one, for a few reasons: 1. It was also going to be better+cheaper for heating hot water than the immersion we had used for the past 8 months and having a bath would become viable again! 2. I felt we were a bit too reliant on off-peak energy prices with Octopus Cosy - what if that ended because everyone had switched to EVs? We might struggle. 3. I also thought it might be handy if the weather got below -7°C where our mini-split COP drops to 2.4. 4. Viessmann were flogging their 11kW boilers with 72% off the RRP. I don’t think your average British Gas fitter can wrap their heads around the idea of a puny 11kW boiler - is this why they are so cheap? My gas man's jaw fell open when I told him I wanted an 11kW boiler with no thermostats, no TRVs, no external controls - just a thermistor on the tank and one outside for weather comp. The boiler has wifi so only needs a Viessmann app to manage everything but this was an alien concept to him. For the first week, we experimented with gas heating when outside fell below 3°C but soon turned off CH because it was working out more expensive than using the mini-splits, so now we just use it for DHW. We have a lot more water available while it consumes about the same as the old boiler's pilot light, about 4.5kWh per day. One other small advantage is that we can stuff insulation around the tank - this isn’t possible when using an immersion because it will overheat and cut out. So almost by accident we ended up with a hybrid system and it does work very well.
From my experience of mitsubishi you're probably over dramatising things with 'lied'. I'm seeing very inconsistent training and hence agent knowledge. I suggest it's more about incompetence than antibody lying.
@@RenewableHeatingHub From what I have seen, a heat geek installer is properly accredited and trained and "should" be an excellent way to go. Fra better than relying upon somebody who claims to know but more likely applies rule of thumb rather than mathematics to a design
Great video and a timely subject for me, even though we don’t have an ASHP. Our gas boiler is capable of running weather compensation but was never set up to run it. For its last service we got a Heat Geek installer to check it out. His recommendation is similar to yours. Open loop, and the removal of inefficient extra pumps around the UFH manifold. We’ve never felt our UFH was as effective as it should be. After watching Heat Geeks at work we’re confident that our running costs and comfort levels will improve as a result. Good luck with your upcoming work.
Thanks for watching and sharing your experience. Let us know how your work gets along when you get around to it and we’ll compare notes.
@@RenewableHeatingHub Will do
We had a Ashp installed in 2020...initially set up with a constant flow temp and buffer and also gave a low Cop... Since we moved to weather comp and removed the buffer the cop has improved by 20 percent or so and the plant room is alot cooler... Good luck with your plans...
Thanks for sharing @russelljulier ... it's 100% the way to go, and I wish more installers would see this is the most efficient way forward. What brand heat pump do you?
We have a Daikin Altherma 16KW, installed as part of a Government Electrification of Heat Trial, we run the system as a single zone with TRVs on the radiators mostly set fully open...the system can maintain a temperature of 19-20 degC with an EPC rating of C. @@RenewableHeatingHub
Hi to you both. I followed the early months of your installation experience and had a few email exchanges with you at the time but have missed the intervening developments.
It certainly looks like you suffered from being an early adopter but it is great that your installer has stuck with you throughout - you and the installer have learned a lot in the process.
This was an excellent video and you covered all the major points perfectly. It is lamentable that installers avoid future customer interaction by encouraging set point (fixed flow temp) operation and cloak or dismiss weather compensation - this applies in the gas boiler market too. I am running a Viessmann 200 gas boiler on weather compensation with ‘cold radiators’ - it is fantastic. (The boiler is too young to trash for ASHP - but that is my trajectory).
Are you intending to fit open energy monitoring equipment - it is a force for good?😉
I will re-engage with your journey to follow developments. If there is anything to learn over the last few years it is system design is everything, good heating engineers are scarce and most installed systems are over powered, over controlled, over pumped and under performing.
Thanks for sharing the update.👍
It's great to hear from you again; it certainly has been some time. While we're likely not pursuing the open energy monitoring path, I came across something quite intriguing regarding monitoring this morning that has sparked my excitement.
Thank you for your continued support over the years - it's been immensely valued. Expect many more updates and videos in the coming weeks.
Here we installed a 4Kw heatpump with weather compensation. Set at 20C with slope 1C/C, so at 0C outside the CH water becomes 40C. Floor heating and radiators installed, living room temperature set at 19C. We used 220KWhr for heating over the month of February with an average COP of 4.45. Hybrid system, but the gas heater did not kick in for heating, only for warm water, 19m^3 of natural gas including cooking.
Great numbers. Thanks for sharing. What brand is the heat pump?
@@RenewableHeatingHub Remeha EA4
Glad you’ve seen improvements. Just a note to say that I have Heatmiser stats (hardwired) and they are all about 1.5-2deg out of whack compared to a decent calibrated thermometer. If you use your IR camera on the stat you’ll see it emits a fair amount of heat and I believe this skews the accuracy. I calibrated mine down and seems better.
Thanks for the tip and feedback on the Heatmiser stats. Never even crossed my mind because the rooms feel similar to the temperature indicated by the stats, but does warrant an investigation. Thanks for that.
@jedherman7450, we have a shout out to you on this video: ua-cam.com/users/shortslhaZuOwhoL8
Brilliant. A huge reduction but is that total electricity for the house or just for the heating? I think we live at similar temperatures and we use the whole 165sq.m house 24x7 but our total energy usage over the past 90 days was 2140kWh. Heating is with our two air-to-air mini-split heat pumps 👍 but I have to admit that 4 weeks ago we had our ancient (condemned) gas boiler replaced with a new one, for a few reasons:
1. It was also going to be better+cheaper for heating hot water than the immersion we had used for the past 8 months and having a bath would become viable again!
2. I felt we were a bit too reliant on off-peak energy prices with Octopus Cosy - what if that ended because everyone had switched to EVs? We might struggle.
3. I also thought it might be handy if the weather got below -7°C where our mini-split COP drops to 2.4.
4. Viessmann were flogging their 11kW boilers with 72% off the RRP.
I don’t think your average British Gas fitter can wrap their heads around the idea of a puny 11kW boiler - is this why they are so cheap?
My gas man's jaw fell open when I told him I wanted an 11kW boiler with no thermostats, no TRVs, no external controls - just a thermistor on the tank and one outside for weather comp. The boiler has wifi so only needs a Viessmann app to manage everything but this was an alien concept to him.
For the first week, we experimented with gas heating when outside fell below 3°C but soon turned off CH because it was working out more expensive than using the mini-splits, so now we just use it for DHW. We have a lot more water available while it consumes about the same as the old boiler's pilot light, about 4.5kWh per day. One other small advantage is that we can stuff insulation around the tank - this isn’t possible when using an immersion because it will overheat and cut out. So almost by accident we ended up with a hybrid system and it does work very well.
Shocking that the manufacturer lied saying the unit wasn't capable of weather compensation when it was.
It was a crazy thing to say. They just didn’t want the hassle I suspect, and an easier way to “hide” the subpar installation.
@@RenewableHeatingHub just shows you that they don't understand their own product and how best to run it.
This is yet another instance of an industry falling short of expectations - the number of skilled and competent installers is simply not sufficient.
From my experience of mitsubishi you're probably over dramatising things with 'lied'. I'm seeing very inconsistent training and hence agent knowledge. I suggest it's more about incompetence than antibody lying.
Why not chat to a Heat Geek elite installer? Very good at optimising etc
We’ve got arrangements for Ultimate Renewables to do a complete overhaul, but Heat Geek is a good suggestion too.
@@RenewableHeatingHub From what I have seen, a heat geek installer is properly accredited and trained and "should" be an excellent way to go. Fra better than relying upon somebody who claims to know but more likely applies rule of thumb rather than mathematics to a design