The Double Up | Have All The Gain You Want!
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- This is a really cool way to get the cleanest high gain tones with all the effects you want in the loop, and clean as a whistle. Using 2 noise gates and the ‘double up’ technique provided by Stone Deaf Effects, you can create incredible tones and not a hiss in earshot!
Get the Noise Reaper here: bit.ly/2VJQntf
Get the PDF-1X here: bit.ly/2W8DjN8
Video edited by John Hollingworth
#howtousenoisegates #stonedeaf #rabeaafro
⬇️⬇️⬇️ Feel free to read this ⬇️⬇️⬇️
Hey guys, I’m Rabea. I'm the lead guitarist in Toska, Frog Leap & Dorje where I write music, make songs and have a great time with my mates. I also have my own line of guitars with Chapman Guitars, and I’ve designed numerous products with some really cool companies, such as the Victory Amps VX Kraken. Anyway, i hope you enjoy my videos, thank you for watching!
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Hi Guys, its Luke from Stone Deaf, I just wanted to clear some confusion up and get the facts put there of what Rabea is showing here as gates are confusing at the best of times.
F.A.Q:
1) Can you not just use 1 gate into the pre-amp and it gate pedals going in front?
Yes you can and yes you can gain stack but you cant dime a pre-amp and the master on your amp and then gain stack into the pre-amp as well. “But why?”
You will exceed the dynamic range of a noise gate: meaning if a noise gate has a threshold of 120dB and you exceed it with 140dB via gain stacking then you will get hiss and high frequency oscillation. If you back your dials off and stick a pedal in and its below the 120dB then you will be fine.
Rabea is showing 40+ dB going into a very high gain pre-amp thus its likely to exceed the 120dB threshold.
2) why would you add a second gate?
You add a second gate to double up on what you are trying to gate separating each gain stage (pedals and pre-amp) and controlling them individually.
3) can you do the same with other gates?
Yes you can if they have a send and return loop. You cant do it on a gate that just as a “Key input” (1/2 a loop) as it needs a return unless you are using a Y splitter. A hard gate that just has an input or output will not work at all.
4) How does the gate work in simple terms? It works by taking the sensitivity of the input and comparing it to what's in the loop. You set the threshold to gate what is in the loop (Series FX Loop Pre-amp output's and inputs "Send" and Return" or "Distorted gain pedal for example)
Guitar ---> (Gate Loop: PDF-1X with +40dB) ---> Gate output = 40+dB ---> Into Kraken front end (Front of pre-amp)
Kraken Series Fx Loop see's +40dB of signal ----> Send to Gates Loop input ----> Gates loop output (gate signal) to Delay input ---> delay output ----> Kraken return input. Delay is not gated so has clean repeats.
If you crank the pre-amp of a high gain amp this is how you can exceed the dynamic range of a noise gate:
+40dB output ---> high gain amp input ----> turn up pre-amp to excessive amounts of gain by say 100dB ---> noise gate that has 120dB of dynamic range ---> exceeded by 20dB = hiss and high frequency oscillation.
By using 2 gates you have split up the above and clamped down both signals (Gain stacked pedal output and cranked pre-amp output signals)
Hope all this makes sense.
You should be technically able to do this method with any gate that has a loop send and return or different gate brands together for example. The best gates on the market which I have tested to bench mark the Noise Reaper against are in no particular order are:
Cockblocker
Zuul
ISP Decimator G String
It boils down to price, size, ease of use and smoothness of response when sustaining. I have tried to balance out all those points with the Noise Reaper to give equal quality and ease of use but at a reasonable price as I think as a product category they can be a bit pricey.
Luke Hilton Thank you Luke 🙏 Very helpful time have that explained and written down 🙂
Hi Luke! Thank you for this infos! Did you try the Sentry (TC Electronic)?
mdr no, not true, i just listed 3 of many we tested. If anyones ever used an NS-2 compared to an ISP or Zuul they will note that the gate isnt as fast or as smooth for high gain tones in certain applications. If you want to get really picky the ISP isnt as fast as the Zuul, the Zuul and the Noise Reaper are equally as fast and smooth as the cockblocker. Or at least that was my experience. However its fairly marginal and would only be applicable when doing tight chugging or sustained notes not to get choked off.
I would try the NS-2 in this setup and many others too but as far as Im concerned the ISP, the Zuul and the cockblocker where the ones to bench mark against when refining my design.
However I haven’t tested every noise gate in the land as that would be fruitless. If it works and sounds right for the application then you have met the design requirement. Id encourage always to try different products for your personal requirements and if you aren’t satisfied to return it to the dealer or manufacturer which is something I offer too. There might be something out there you really like and thats right for you.
Alex Cioată I did not bench mark the sentry as its a digital noise gate and I was focussing on the analogue realm and what was popular from forum use and high gain players. We had a customer who kept the noise reaper though over the sentry just because of simplicity and speed of gate. 🤷🏻♂️ but its down to individual tastes I suppose.
Id expect its a good gate coming from TC tbh, same with the Boss one for most applications just like I said its down to individual tastes.
A gate isnt an exciting piece of kit tbh, but its just very useful if you are running a lot of pedals.
Id urge everyone that watches the video and reads these threads and comments to go and try a gate...any gate and try different setups with it.
Will defo eliminate unwanted noise and feedback in a lot of areas.
Luke Hilton have you tried the new(ish) ISP Deci-mate G Micro? How’s the gate speed on that compare?
This could legit be the tone of an entire band. Heavy as fuck, its insane, like 2000s hard rock.
Go to 11:15 for the result of this technique - but if you wanna learn how to get the result, watch the video ;)
All jokes aside, I’m really enlightened by this technique, can’t believe I didn’t know of it before, it’s gonna help me a lot in Toska!
Did you say you’re running the pdx on the high gain channel as well? I’m looking to add this pedal to my board.
7:31: The look of Rabea realizing that he now has to completely change his new pedalboard configuration, Good stuff!
Rabea you lost a lot of weight! nice job
THAT TONE ! that could fit on any amps it would sound nice :D
"I stack gain and fuzz into my Kraken"
Bea 4/28/2020
On a side note if you get the Fortin Zuul it has a Key input that effectively does the same thing but with one pedal.
covereden Beez thats not technically true as you need a Y splitter to a) use a fortin zuul and with any gate with a loop you don’t as it has it built in with its send and return and b) you can gain stack into one noise reaper the same as the zuul but with excessive gain you would still have the problem of exceeding both the zuul and the noise reapers dynamic gate with 1 pedal. Both have a dynamic range of 120dB so if you exceed that with just using one gate then you will get the his as shown in the video. The two gate method doubles the dynamic range and splits the gain stacking up so it wont exceed both pedals. I designed the noise reaper and tested all the top gates including the zuul, cockblocker and ISP decimator. Hope you are well.
@@coveredenbeez3161 yeah, but what is the key...then. i prefer this reaper things at this price point...
@@avnidvyi the key is 1/2 a loop essentially.
That’s a hell of a video regardless of the equipment. Edited extremely well, explained perfect for everyone, shows everything that would be asked for etc. Love all your stuff, always have as you probably could tell from all my past history of comments, but wanted to let you know this was high quality and very well made. Appreciate you as always, stay safe man.
The classic reason we use 2 gates (before and after) in high gain world (and not just for the Djent genre) Rabea is now a convert! Love it!
1:32 - 1:35 you can get ointment for that.
10:33-10:36 I completely agree. Stacking gain, it's just insane.
This is basically how i have my gates set up in my daw when i'm jamming. Very cool to see the hardware version of that trick
Kinda mindblowing in a way - i never would have thought of using to gates in this "loop de loop" mode. Awesome!
I never considered this technique to get rid of noise. Very interesting, this would be very useful when recording
I'm a huge fuzz user and have used a noise gate for years due to mainly playing P90s and I usually would get a butt load of hum. A couple months back I bought a Lee Malia RD Artisan which has a P90 in the neck and a splitable humbucker in the bridge but also has a dummy coil built in the middle that completely kills out any hum and it's amazing. Gonna be using it live cause I don't have to have the gate on my board anymore. Even helps random noise coming from the amp. Idk why more manufactures aren't using a dummy coil cause it's a genius fix.
I’ve been trying to find out something like this for a while. Thanks for sharing.
Is this now considered the 10 cable method?
Man you’re awesome and inspiring! Just when I think, how can your guitar sound any bigger, you go and do this! Love it!
Bea my man! Looking amazing! Well done with the weight loss dude and awesome video! Always a pleasure watching your videos and listen to the monster riffs you come up with
Good God! That last echo tone is sick.
Dude, all tasty gain goodness aside, you look fucking great, congrats on all your progress!
Cool never thought about hooking two gates up like that to have them both react to the clean guitar. That's great!
Absolute awesomeness
RM brother thank you for the idea.....gonna try to give it a go
That is a fantastic and inspiring sound. I definitely appreciate tools that just get the mind rolling with ideas to try out. Awesome vid man. Cheers
Hi Bea, great video, once more. You must be one of the few people who actually loose weight during the Lockdown! Keep it up! You're An inspiration in so many ways! Thank you.
I’m honestly surprised that people don’t know about this...maybe that’s what I get for being sequestered in my music preferences. Been doing this for years and it makes you sound so professional when your amp isn’t just buzzing all over the place when it gets quiet.
super interesting thanks Bea!
Been playing for years and didn’t know any of that. Thank you 🙏 Super helpful Rabea. Keep up the fine work 🙂🎸
So awesome. Thank you
Awesome gain yeah.
I'm sorry but you can't have ALL the gain. I'm not giving mine up and no I don't want to sell any of my gain. I need my gain.
Awesome man, that's plain awesome.
You just won a sub.
I think some folks are confusing The Double Up method with other gates, such as the Decimator G String, Boss NS-2, TC Electronic Sentry, Fortin Zuul and Spectre Cockblocker. While there's some similarity between The Double Up and other Loop Gates, the main difference between them is that The Double Up allows you to set the thresholds/gating for both Pre-Amp noise and Loop noise separately. Loop Gates have a shared thresholds/gates between the pre-amp and loop. The Double Up allows for dialing in more precise gating. Pedal gain may be noisier than the signal found in your loop from your amps gain. If you set a Loop Gate (with a shared threshold) for the noisier of the two sources, you'll be over gating the quieter one.
In the past I started with the NS-2 before trying Sentry and finally settled on the G String. While the Sentry and NS-2 were nice due to being able to have finer control over the type of gating (Threshold and Decay), I prefer the simplicity of the G String, though I think it tends to shut the gate a tad too abruptly.
It'd be nice if Stonedeaf made a "pro" version that's basically 2 of the Noise Reapers in one w/ dual threshold knobs (decay controls would be super dope too) in order to save on pedalboard space.
Thanks for clearing this up for people!
To be perfectly honest, as I said in the video, I’m not a user of gates really, this is the first time I’ve really spent with them. So I am pretty oblivious if there are similar products or things that achieve the same result as what I’ve shown here.
If I want to use just one noise gate pedal instead of two and I don't care about setting individual thresholds for gating my preamp and my effects loop ( meaning I want to control noise at both points before the amp and in the loop but with a shared setting), will this reaper allow me to connect it the sane way as the Boss NS2 does?
@@allboutthemojo For that setting, you'd plug your cable from your guitar into the lower right input jack. Then from the upper right jack you'd send a cable to your pre-amp pedals and into your amp input. Then you would run a cable from your amps FX loop send into the upper left jack and then finally from the lower left jack a cable back into the amps FX loop return. That would put all of your pre-amp noise and fx loop noise in the "nose gate" loop of this pedal.
@@bobisadrummer thanks. I'm going to put that in a flow chart before connecting it. It's definitely not straightforward
@@bobisadrummer revisiting this as i gave up after not being able to connect it correctly. I have a compressor, wah, OD, Distortion. I would like to run the gain stuff in front of the amp but through the gate. I want to run my Flanger, Delay and Reverb into the effects loop of the amp but also through the gate. Can you do me a favor and list the exact signal chain connection based on how the Reaper is labelled? The Reaper manual say's right top = NG output. right bottom = Guitar input. Left top = send input. Left bottom = Return Output
hat sounds colossal. Awesome video dude
This is REALLY good! Going to look into these.
So the "Double Up" is basically a pedal version of the Isp Decimator Rack, Looks pretty cool.
I'm currently rocking a pair of Zuul's in my Stereo rig with One in each FX Loop (1x Gate per amp) and the Zuul is sooo Impressive once you've got the key input set up properly.
Although an addition gate in the front end never hurts.
amazing pedal...
That is really cool!! I've never thought of that!
To answer your question this is a very useful idea. Now if I can just get a pedal manufacturer to send me a couple noise gates.
This is so sick 🤘 I never would have even thought something like that could be done. Sounds massive.
I don't understand.... I'm obliged to buy two noise reaper to get best results? what if I don't use the fx loop of my amp? I have to put the noise gate at the end of the chain?
Imagine that sound in a stadium. 🤘
This is incredible, I'm definitely getting a second gate so I can do this. Thank you for the video!
Some noise gate pedals can be hooked up the 4 cable method. Same idea just one noise gate.
Yes thats correct and thats what the first noise gate is doing in the fx loop. However if you stack into the pre-amp with more dB of gain you can exceed the dynamic range of the pre-amp noise hate hence why you would need two gates which is what Rabea is demonstrating in the video.
@@lukehilton7553 No, not exactly. Both noise gates are analyzing the same "pure" guitar signal but the 1st one is killing the signal in the FX loop while the second one is killing the signal right before the amp input (=right after the PDF-1X). As both gates can have different thresholds you're able to fine tune when the preamp gets muted and when the FX loop gets muted. You're in control of which noise to kill when.
The 4 cable method is simpler and not as tweakable. Just like the "double up" method the gate is analyzing the "pure" guitar signal and not some already pre-amplified or even distorted signal. That's good but it still can only mute in the FX loop. That's not bad as this is basically muting the whole amp (apart from anything that's after the gate like delays and reverbs). But check out those tiny tiny "airy" hisses that Rabea showed. To control those to a better degree you will need to use 2 gates so you can decide when to kill the signal at which part of the signal chain. You will want to kill the noise of the PDF-1X at a different threshold (mostly earlier) than the noise that your amp will create. That way you will kill the beginning of that noise oscillation but let the amp ring out those few milliseconds to sound more natural and "oomphy". I'm fine with the 4 cable method but for recording the "double up" method looks very interesting. Live though I don't think anyone would notice the small difference.
@@carlthegnarl
Its not analysing the same signal because the signal going into the pre-amp via the first noise gate's output is at a higher gain than the incoming signal from the guitar on the first noise gate. Example PDF-1X is outputting 40dB into the gates loop, so 40dB is coming out of the gates output, distorted)
The noise gate is gating the output signal from the pre-amp via the send and the output of pedals (PDF-1X) in the pedal loop (going into the front of the pre-amp) when in double up. The input signal is used as a reference to balance out between the loop (fx loop or pedal loop) and the input and the output is the effected sound (gated sound that's been distorted or has a lot of gain).
Doesn't matter what the input is as the signal isn't pure after the first gate going into the pre-amp, its the effected signal (distorted by what's in the loop)
The gates are balancing out the sensitivity of the input (gated input or ungated guitar) between itself and the loop in the noise gate then outputting under the conditions of the threshold you have set.
Very helpful, it realy cleans up every ground sounds🤘 the delay sounds like a flanger.
Nice, I'm going to have to try this out.
Sounds brilliant)
Woah! Your tone is so brutal and massive. Stay safe Bea.
Getting serious Karnivool vibes from that tone. Awesome!
Bea got thin but his hands didn't shrink with him! Proper mittens!
Nuts !
So with 2 gates, the 4 cable method becomes an 8 cable method. Ive had a boss ns2 for years but just bought a REVV G8 gate and was about to sell the boss. Im glad i saw this video first.
Wow gotta get them in the setup
Boss NS-2 first pedal as a buffer and a high line level Drawmer running on amp FX loop and save a lot of cables and stacking a lot of OP pedals noise. Cheers
After years of noise. Super helpful, fro! 🤙🏻
BEASTLY!!
So I may be wrong but the illustration at 3:14 seems incorrect...namely the NG Output is not on the same spot of both the Reapers. This makes understanding the circuits really confusing for me. Is it simply supposed to be the guitar cable goes "Input/Output" and then you just rig up any pedals used through the "Send/Return" loops of either the respective front-of-amp or the FX loop gates?
How do you use the gate when using a switcher/looper pedal ??
If it has the inlet/outlet/send/return it could be used as an effects loop, like the Boss-NS-2
This would be great with the Spectre Cockblocker.
Alex Ledford eff Glenn. Dude will never get my dollar. Plenty of other great products that come from people who aren’t one of the world’s biggest douchebags.
This is a really cool technique, would be nice to have all the functionality in one pedal just to save on pedalboard real estate
Tc electronics Sentry.
Finally, a video named after me!!
i was not familiar with this. will have to give it a try
Very cool! Haven't played around much with noise gates. Is there anything to keep in mind when switching between a clean and a distorted tone?
My second noise gate is noisy 😆 20$ pawnshop Behringer NR300. Replace it with a mxr smart gate also used. Any recommendations for a second gate I could easily find in stores or better yet used?
Super cool videos and crazy tones, Bea!
Only one question: Doesn't TC Electronic's SENTRY (gate pedal) do the exact same thing with that loop? And also Glenn's C*ck Blocker?
Cheers!
Doesn’t the the DBX twin channel noise gate do the same thing?
Can someone please explain to me as I'm kinda new to gates, with a single gate featuring a loop (4 sockets) like the boss ns2 or something, and you want to run it both in front and in the fx loop, can delays etc be placed after it leaving them unaffected? Or is that one of the reasons he's using 2?
Basically yeah, but new more advanced gates don’t really tone suck (adleast a lot less in comparison, or in some cases cutting off unwanted high end). Some gates with the 4CM allow for longer tails and won’t cut your notes off, but can still clamp tight when needed. It is as always a bit of a compromise, and different gates will work better in different situations. The best all round gate I found was the key and the gate pedal. The two gate method used here is the least compromise in the way you can set each pedal, for each position. Hope they made sense 🤘🏻
Sold!!!!
Bruh , haven’t seen your vids in a while. You lost a lot of weight! Congratulations!
How to set up for Wet Dry Wet; 3 Amplifiers, 4 Noise Reapers,.?
am i the only one who absolutely loved the sound it made at 6:09?
They work great but I wouldn't call them affordable. If they were around £80 each then I'd agree. I can't afford them, unfortunately. Great playing as always Rabea.
How does it compare with the Zuul? The SDNR looks cooler and is half the price
I just put a X wired gate in /on my 5150 and it is scary how quiet it is with the guitar turned down. Then sneak up the guitar volume knob and release the thunder! All the hiss and noise is gone.
Do you also use an od pedal for your 5150?
ALL THE GAIN!! NO MIDS!! METALZOOONNE! SLAYYERR!
Colin would be so proud to see this
Would you put effect pedals between the return output and the fx loop input if you didn't want to run effects right after drives?
Bea make some doom drones with your future original tracks with those pedals but with the ambient noises too. Like you did before from your previous solo release.
No more hissssss lol. I use the decimator chrome pedal and it’s the best I’ve heard so far. These are nice tho. To stop that much gain they must work well lol.
Very Cool Man 👍👍🎶🎶🎸
what about the ISP gate that goes to both front and back of amp ...would it work better or worse that the results your getting with 2 gates?
Are their amps still made? I can't find any info online ?!
Epic frelling tone.
Not to advertise other brands on a review of StoneDeaf's product, but the Boss N-2 is specifically built for doing this trick and you won't need a 2nd noise gate pedal. Will cost you less than half the price of two Noise Reapers
Radoslaw Dlugowski hi, Luke here, the noise reaper can also do this, the video is to explain excessive amounts of gain not just standard gain stacking which you would and could do with one noise reaper. Please read the F.A.Q at the top detailing why you would use 2 noise reapers or see our manual. Thanks
Isn't this the thing you can do with the Fortin Zuul, without the need for two pedals?
I have the Zuul. That's the basic concept. What this thing did though. It ran the guitar into the gate in the loop which ran into the gate out front, into overdrive, into amp. That's friggin crazy. The Zuul couldn't do that because the key input has no output. I don't know if other gates have four jacks, but I'm checking.
The ISP Decimator G-String and Boss NS-2 have loops built into them specifically to do this technique with the four cable method.
@@pogoman246 Spectre Cockblocker does too
Hi Rabea. Is it possible to use a noise gate pedal in front, and the NS in the Boss Ms-3 in the effects loop, with the 4 cable method...? I already run the MS-3 with the 4 cable method, and use the NS. So it would be simple to just add a noise gate pedal in front... :-)
Totally. You'll have better control of noise before the amp (60 cycle hum, dirty power and/or florescent lighting) and noise cause by amp gain.
Thing is, with riffing i have No Problems with Gates. These Start once i Play leads with Long Held notes... The Signal Just dies Off. Any solution to this? Other than that They are brilliant :-)
Edit: seems the reaper does exactly solve that issue! :-O
I play metal and I don’t use a lot of gain, I like my big (tool) chords y’know
Is this technique inherent to the Noise Reaper? Meaning, can this be done within the UI of a DAW like Reaper?
This is very cool. But what we are really waiting for is LEAVE NO MEAT ON THE BONES :)
😎👍
Are you using any other gates at all in this video? I've always had my Boss NS-2 before my Strymon Sunset to help clean up my playing so none of the fluff gets boosted, but I'm wondering if it'll really make much of a difference were I to try the gate in the loop
bitessun he has two running. One in front, one in the loop. Your NS-2 can do both at the same time since it has a loop built in. It makes a ton of difference. I’ve been doing this for years since I hate the buzzing you get from using high gain amps.
@@pogoman246 I was just curious if there was any other more subtle gates as it's a rather extensive board, perhaps one before the PDF to tighten up the raw signal. Tried what you're saying last night and it definitely made a little bit of difference, but definitely not as much as I'd hope
@@bitessun what's your signal path?
@@Charners Uhh, I'll try and keep it as simple as I can, I'm currently going into the NS2s input > sending out to some other pedals > into my amp (actually a Scarlett 2i2/MacBook Pro running Archetype Nolly) > out of the interface into the NS2s return followed by delay and reverb > into the return of a JCM 2000 (using it as a power amp)
Wicked🤘🤘🤘🤘
SLAYER!!!!
Hey what’s up Rabea. I was just watching your pedal board video on That Pedal Show and you were saying how you don’t like to use noise gates because it feels weird to play with. Does this method change your opinion on that or was this just a cool thing to try? Great video mate, have a good one
Hey man thanks for watching and for the question.
I think it has changed my mind, for some sounds I use in Toska. I think I’d have to find a way to rig this easily into my stereo rig to know if it’s something I’ll use going forward. But to be honest I would know the first thing about rigging that
I fucking love that guitar.
Great video mate. Made me think of that noise gate in the kemper used with a noise gate stomp. I'ive been doing some research and indeed, seems like a balance between 2 gates is going to give you more flexibility here. Not surprised tho. Great idea.
Nice. I never even thought I of using one in the effects loop as well as one before my board. At the moment I run an EHX silencer with my guitar in the input, output straight to the amp and all my pedals in the loop takes the pedals nicely. Sometimes get a few issues when I'm playing cleaner ambient and riding the volume. Have you noticed any issues with this set up for quieter ambient sounds?
Interesting concept, for the real world though.....
back in my day, a marshall jcm900 at volume with 2 guitarists, you could distinguish what they were playing. great.
with 2 marshall valvestate heads, it was mush.
I had an audition for a band that i'll never forget.
no singer yet, just 2 guitarists and a drummer. I was on bass.
I turn up with my 15" speaker and 300w. the 2 guitarists had gt-100 boards and 100w power amps. I was just not even there, sonically.
they were so loud, so much distortion and no sonic space for bass. they took up all the frequencies, all at once with a wall of sound.
they had what rabea was playing, massive gain, delays bouncing around, it was just metallic noise.
we all know what it is like when a drummer is especially loud, they take up the sonic space. well, add way too overdriven guitar amps and the art of music is lost. we all remember a time early in out career when things sounded great, everyone could be heard and the song was the benefit. doenst matter the style, but the may not have had the dream tone, but you could hear their contribution to the song.
moral is, what sounds good at home, isnt good in a live room with natural acoustic reverb. when in doubt, back it off 20%.
👍