This… high ranked rich people discussing about this are way too useless… i spent 2 hours to go to and back from office everyday. do they prefer a tired me or a fresh me at work?
It's clear that lady work scope and performance matrix in Quess is very different from her previous. Go different place sing different tune but pay definitely higher. If you deem as a leader not just a manager you should emphasize and understand what your people want, not the other way round tell them what is good for them because you are not in their shoes
WFH for me used to be something of a "luxury" but with certain trade offs. But recently I've been diagnosed with a life long condition and due to my condition and treatment, the doctors advised me to WFH from for long term (6 months to a year). My current employer which I've recently join has been super gracious to allow me to WFH for most of the time. I think WFH for people with disabilities and medical conditions really works out.
Speaking as an employee - WFO should not be coined as a DEMAND by employers. WFH will always be a privilege and should only be on a case to case basis and only temporal. Employees who want WFH as a RIGHT ought to switch to gig work, be a FA or REA. Whether the job nature allows one to WFH is for the EMPLOYER to decide. Singaporeans need to wake up from their bubble. Many who do not have a critical reason to WFH often use company time to do personal things when WFH. Lets be brutally honest about our request to WFH. If you are unhappy, then find another employer.
@@MJxxxx5 No, there is no bubble to wakeup from. Health is wealth. Employees are exchanging non renewable valuables (time & health) with the company's renewable valuable (money). DON"T wait till you lose it to realize that.
When I was employed, I enjoyed working, churning out materials, training, presentation notes and generally being productive, only to be distracted by frequent meetings, meetings and meetings which brings almost no benefit to productivity or value to achieving company KPIs. In the end, those who attend endless meetings never things done while productive people like us get affected.
I'm more productive at home, when I don't have office drama around me and I have my cats for a quick 2-3 minute "face planting into their warm fuzzy bellies whenever things get too stressful" sessions. I HATE office drama or what some people call "socializing". I don't need to be friends with my coworkers, I just need us to be able to work in a civilized manner and professional manner, period. I don't need to know what she's wearing, what brand of bag she bought, or when she shows up wearing the same clothes for 2 days
Karen sounds like someone who cares more about optics than logic and a micromanager who likes to keep tabs on her workers, prob the type that thinks leaving work before your manager is a deal-breaker too. Let's be honest, whether one is WFH or working in the office, no one is at 100% productivity at all times. There are distractions in both environments. There are days I wouldn't mind catching up with colleagues at work, and there are days I want to dive into work without having to exchange pleasantries with my colleagues. IMO, 2-3 days in office/week should suffice.
When she pointed how her company allows working overseas as if it’s like a great benefit for the staff, I knew she’s another typical apathetic boss. Not only she wants her ppl to WFO but work while you travel too!
like she said, she just “joined the company” so she’s probably just tryna earn brownie points (aka angkat her boss). traditional mindset (presence = productivity)😒 on the side note, really appreciate Mr Steven Chia, stating the pros and cons for RTO🫶🏼 companies really need to understand that not everyone is the same. some loves socialising (“water cooler talks”) and meeting new people; some just feel more productive at home (not having to wait for their colleague to finish their meal before going back to work, no distractions from colleagues at their work desk, not having to spend 2 hours on commute to and fro and not forgetting the peak hour crowd…..
CNA, check out the majority of comments and stop featuring people like Karen Teo from Quess, who does not represent the majority. She does, however, accurately represent the greedy corporations and bosses out there who would rather cause an inconveniece to others for their own gains.
What inconveniences? If not for money will you work? Let's just face it, because COVID forced WFH, you got too comfortable. The impression one can be as effective at home as physically in office is forced upon the world to self justify. Wait till the day if you ever gotten into a more important role and you need things done immediately but you call him, call her, call that, but they never answer, then you know the fuss and the true meaning of inconvenience
@@jefferytay3225 So basically employees need to be there for the managers to do their jobs? They can't effectively communicate remotely like everyone else can? Pretty clear that these conversations are exposing the inherent uselessness of most of management. An employee ignoring a manager's call is ultimately a hiring fail on the managers part. Do you disagree?
@@momomomo-lt5fs The best part is, she probably didn't like it either. But willing to promote it for her paycheck at the expense of others who prefers WFH.
exactly. Simple solution to bonding: Have common days where the whole company works in office -- say, Tues, Wed, Thurs. U will see every colleague n have ur water cooler talk. I don't see how implementation affects this at all. Allow Mon and Fri to be WFH. That lady guest, i feel, is making excuses and already set in her mindset without realising her answers aren't really sound.
Hybrid arrangement is tte best. Conserving workers' energy can help staff to be more productive and focused. And by reducing unnecessary travels, we can reduce unnecessary expenses and waste of time; it also helps to prevent climate realated issues.
When I work from home, I even do work at night as my PC is on 24x7. I may have that sudden 1 hour of free time at night, and.... PC is on, so might as well do some work so that I have lesser backlogs. When forced to 5 days RTO, I reach office before time but I leave on the dot. P.S. My work never has an end. There are always things to do and deadlines are months away. Meaning there are no ending tasks. So the more I at screen, the more I complete. So 5 days RTO is essentially counter productive for me.
So true!! When I have more work to do, I would rather work from home because during crunch time I can do non-stop until 11pm or sometimes 2am. But when I’m in office, I go home on the dot and even when I have more work (thinking I can continue at home) after travelling 1.5hrs home, my body is on rest mode already and I end up procrastinating it for tomorrow.
“Transactional” - Karen Teo. Let’s be honest. Employee, employer relationship is always transactional. I’m trading my skills and time for that cold hard cash. So pls don’t guise that as a way to force RTO.
Ya and now the transaction requires to return to office. If you don’t like it go look for other job that you can wfh. No one forcing you to stay in the company but if you want to stay you need to follow company policy
If your job can be done 100% from home. Chances are the work can be outsource to other countries with cheaper labour as long it meet certain requirements. There is a trade off to every decision. It may not be advantage to local employees, as job competition is no longer constrain to geographical barrier.
@@maximus6884 there wasn't a choice then. even when productivity drops, nothing could be done, and at least it's better than nothing done. As mentioned, wfh isn't a good thing for singaporeans. If work can be done from home predominantly, then cheaper hungrier people overseas are more attractive. be careful wat u wish for, and don't end up being the real joke.
Outsourcing has already happened in my company. The so call cheaper and hungrier foreign workers who were supposed to be so good has high turn over as they realize Singaporean jobs are not so easy to be taken over. There is a lot of expertise and knowledge that singaproe side had build and is not that easy to transfer and learn by them. From what I heard a lot of knowledge transferred done but still is v hard for them to pick up. For those jobs that are very analytical and knowledge business base if wants to outsource, good luck to them.
I have been on a fully remote work before and now back to office work. So I can speak from experience. The fully remote work was gone due to retrenchment and the comment that someone mentioned below that if your work can done fully online, your role can be replaced with someone in a much cheaper country. This is true. Also, after working remote fully I realised that you are INDEED detached from the company. No amount of office events (we had one only) can replace building that relationship. Second, the reason why hybrid or remote was workable during COVID-19 was because EVERYONE was on the same arrangement. Now that I am in an office with hybrid arrangement I find it very disruptive as a new joiner to get things done and ask questions. Imagine some colleagues you will only see 1 or 2 days because Person A is on WFH 2 days and Person B on WFH for 1 day etc, but all are on different days. End up you may not meet Person A AND Person B for that week because your WFH is different. For hybrid to work, the only way to work efficiently is to mandate what days EVERYONE comes back to office and what days EVERYONE stays at home.
it really depends. There are jobs where you really don't need to meet your colleagues face to face. Everything can be done efficiently online. But for remote work to be efficient, people need to learn to work efficiently and get to the point, instead of running ideas to other people endlessly and hoping something will hit. Also people will need to learn to express themselves clearly in written form. There are many people who can't get to the point, or will go rumbling endlessly around a point. If they fail to learn that, they are just going to be left in the dust when remote work becomes the norm. Be real, remote work means companies don't need to spend so much money on expensive office location and expensive renovation. You think you can stop that anymore than you can stop companies hiring "someone from a cheaper country". Plus, there is still plus points to hiring a person on remote in the same country. For one thing, the timezone is the same, the response time will still be faster and an arrangement for face to face is always easier. The culture is the same meaning communication is still going to be easier.
Hybrid is better. Office for collaboration, wfh for deep work. I'll be doing RTO next year, will definitely not be taking any more evening calls since I have to wake up earlier to go to the office.
Unless you're literally an assembly line worker in a factory, there's no need for to be physically present for work. Digital nomads have been working remotely for decades. One reason MNCs mandate RTO is because they need to prop up the commercial property value, which would plummet if they're not utilized. Remote working also threatens the high salary that first world countries enjoy; if people can work anywhere on the globe, why not outsource work to India and pay much lower wages?
"Out of sight, out of mind" or "need to see you working in person to know you're working"... those are bosses who practice "management by walking around". They delegate deliverables to lower managers, which is why they lack visibility of who's delivering on their outcomes and who's not. The Board/senior mgt needs to assess whether this boss is even needed. It seems like his/her lower managers or the subordinates themselves can already take care of the deliverables. Why is he/she there for? What's his/her role, exactly?
There are benefits to RTO, but there are also costs too. Such as traveling time, transport cost, cost of work atire, meals, most important is time and its equivalent to getting a pay cut.
Simple solution to bonding: Have *common days* where the whole company works in office -- say, Tues, Wed, Thurs. U will see every colleague n have ur water cooler talk. I don't see how implementation affects this at all. Allow Mon and Fri to be WFH. That lady guest, i feel, is making excuses and already set in her mindset without realising her answers aren't really sound. For new joiners? Do 5 days a week for an initial orientation period for more contact time between bosses and new joiners. After orientation, apply hybrid schedule.
and the energy saved on commute. Be honest, 80% of us are squeezed in the MRT peak hour trains and fighting to get to office. So it is one hour of energy spent on meaningless fighting just to get to sit in the office. And for what?
To lady's comment that she has "support functions" on her team where they have no "clear deliverables". Then you have basically structured their work wrong. You need to assess what their roles are and whether those roles are needed. What & who are they supporting? In what way? All roles have objective goals. Otherwise how do you size their roles and determine their salary & position in the hierarchy? Learn to structure your team's work better. If their goal is to be in office, to "stand by" or pick up ad hoc issues... then define their roles like F&B workers for example. Their role and goal is to "be available on site. Just in case something crops up." They should be hired for and paid based on the amount of time spent, not the amount of work done.
Basically she failed as a manager since she is unable to adapt and manage her team accordingly. If you can't do remote managing well, then you are just going to be obsolete soon when the time hits.
@@Skinnypole_clara Aiya up to employer and market dynamics lor. If the job really attractive, no employee will dare contest 3/4/5 days. Employer want 5 days then its not up to employee to decide.
Pls don't get interviewees from the management side or bosses because their view and kpi doesn't represent the wider audiences. Don't blame that we are lack of innovation because of work flexibly... Because we never in the past decade or present produce any worthy innovative products or companies. A message to corporation or business if you know how make yourself standout or appeal to your customers, please also think about your employees, they are your assets. Understand what they appeals to them in this dynamic generation, not use your authority to tell what is good for them. If you fail to attract talents you shld know the reasons.
there are pros and cons for both side. WFH less travel time, online communication, working hours are blurred(which also means you could be working during non traditional office hours as well) WIO expects you to be physically there in person but once you check out of office, you are out of office and no longer working (sets a clear boundary between work and leisure)
When Amazon announced their RTO our recruiters had a field day making offers to their staff. Also (especially?) for people who were further from the office and consequently were less interested in daily commutes of two hours or more.
WFH is very important, especially for both working parents with young kids. However, yes, don't spoil the market - make sure work seriously and output on par or better. Also, note that this can only be done when the company is making good money. Otherwise, performance doesn't matter, everyone has to RTO. Another thing, wfh fully doesn't work because it means this can be outsourced to cheaper country.
The media want to push for RTO, and over emphasis those people who don't work seriously when WFH. For real, even when people work in office, those who will skive off will find a way to do so in office too.
Singapore is only just finding out now that WFH greatly reduces domestic consumption in retail trade and food & beverage (F&B) services, in addition reduces the return on profits on their offices and demand for building & engineering specialist services of our big urban and building solutions companies! In fact, with advent of technology many people have already been working overseas in cheaper countries while holding down Singapore's jobs on the pretext of WFH. When every December comes around, the whole city empties out as money flows elsewhere!
Being in Office, does not necessarily mean productivity, when it comes to laying off people, all possible excuses will be used. If the employee feels that by turning up at work for fear and that it will reduce their retrenchment chances then it is times to wake up. WFH has it trade off, coworkers and bosses are respecting personal time less and less, meaning, you have awkward non office hour meetings, calls be it at lunch, be it before or after official office hours. In exchange for WFH and reasonably perhaps it is a fair trade. Does being in office increases the chance of promotion, in today’s company promotion is not highly probable for many reasons, company maturity, budgeting, org design and such, so perhaps it does not really make a difference if you are physically in office, so long you deliver your work. Being in office for visibility tho not insignificant, perhaps is too superficial excuse and reason a boss or company can use. And perhaps at some level, quiet quitting is in the background. At the end of the day, everyone’s experience and take on WFH will be different and one will have to assess and make their own decisions.
I don't know why anyone below upper management level would work for a company that requires 5 days in office unless you enjoy being in an office. There's plenty of options, it's a new world for working, and there's just no logical reason to do that with modern technology.
The debate on RTO vs. WFH really highlights the diverse needs and perspectives within the workforce. It's clear that a one-size-fits-all approach won't work. Hybrid models seem to be the most balanced solution, allowing for both collaboration in the office and flexibility at home. However, it's crucial for companies to genuinely consider employee well-being and productivity, not just their own optics or control issues.
Pls admit that the pandemic has created new impression and new routine in today’s world of working. Coming back full RTO no longer makes sense when I am leading teammates across different time zones in different countries and how beneficial would it be when i come office where I can’t even face meet. All my meetings are virtual.
Its funny how organizations would jump the gun fast on new ways of working like online meetings and emails, but still chooses to go back to old ways of working.
At least 2 days of WFH should continue. For mental well being and balance. Some people cannot focus in the office with constant noise and interruptions.. Some prefer coming in because it gives them structure. There’s no one size fits all thing such as 5 day RTO. If your company forces this on you, they clearly don’t value your well being at all. Employees well being is important, if not you’ll soon realise your talents leaving or employees quiet quitting. I don’t agree very much with the lady in white.. Some ideas and concepts she’s pushing for are just so old school and set in Asian mentality. Feel like she’s the type that micromanages a lot. 🤢 The part about “optics”.. This results in alot of bias. Bosses assume/perceive you’re “more hardworking and committed” just because you show up at your desk daily. Maybe it’s time for bosses to reframe their narratives and perspective?? Employees can be competent and committed even if they’re not in the office everyday. Just be objective and look at the results delivered. Everyone is different and we all have different needs. Bosses should have honest conversations with their employees and support them as much as possible, help them be the best that they can be, to be happy, balanced and efficient. For some, this means having the option to decompress at home after fulfilling work responsibilities and to have a certain level of autonomy and flexibility. Micro managers are so yesterday 😂 And so annoying 😓 Honestly.. If you treat your employees like crap, don’t expect loyalty and hard work. Yes, it affects your business and revenue 😂
For wfh to really work, there needs to be trust, mature responsible workers and management, and suitable roles. It doesn’t work for everyone. 1 colleague I had who was the 1st to put up his hand for flexi work hours, was the last the rest of us thought should be given that flexibility….for good reasons. Not saying he is reflective of everyone but such people are real. The connections, ease of communication, discipline differs.
If my employee can work 5 days a week from home, I’ll just outsource the entire department to another country where the same job can be done at a fraction of the price.
Thus proving that "collaboration and team culture " is a fake excuse. Companies are already outsourcing and replacing local workers. But I am the bad guy if I think it is ridiculous to commute to be on zoom calls with India.
Hybrid wfh definitely is the future, but for entry position i suppose they do need to be in office more to "learn the ropes" before they can be reliably trusted to wfh with productivity.
Coming back to the office for optics is just dumb, full stop. There is no justification that optics alone equates to productivity. Stop justifying 5 days RTO = flexibility; if u really mean flexibility, give the employees a hybrid wfh/rto arrangement or a full wfh (and rto when needed approach). I agree with the NUS prof though, it's all about give and take. If employers are adamant about rto, then just be ready to have a smaller pool of talents compared to other employers.
Can understand why some companies are mandating to work from office permanently. While some of us practise the discipline of working diligently at home, there are some who really abuse the system by skiving, moonlighting or doing their own things other than work. I do have a colleague at work who seldom appears in office and always claims to be busy although everyone knows his job scope is much less than the rest.
18:37 is 'gold': I believe at the end of the day it's all about trust between leaders and teams. Asking teams to RTO or 'silent RTO - have an official RTO policy but ask the team to come to the office verbally, or get ready to be penalized as 'non-productive' during evaluation", is a sign of leaders who are non-progressive and micro managers. It's also a sign that there are bigger problems beneath the surface.
For employee's benefit, 5 days RTO is not a good idea. Companies should at least have at least 1 day, better if it's 2 or 3 days WFH. This give the employees some 'downtime' - so much time is wasted getting ready for work, travelling to the work places especially considering traffic jams, public transportation.
Frankly, WFH is fantastic for SG as a nation. Let me explain: Ultimately in SG, the tightest resource is land/space For 5 day work in office regimes, lets say the amount of office space required to generate Y dollars in GDP is X For a 3 day work in office regime, it is possible that the same amount of X space can generate 1.6Y of dollars in GDP. the 0.6Y dollars of GDP is being generated by people working from their own homes which is "free" space for the company & country.
My company recently started hybrid model. They have already hired 80 freshers, highest number since inception. Many higher-ups have shared with me that this hiring is in anticipation of people leaving because of canceling of WFH. So this is a soft layoff. The Quess country manager in this podcast seems to be pushy and extrovert person. All her reasoning are based on her own thinking like I wouldn't layoff people in the name of cancelling WFH for "company culture", I find it difficult know people virtually, etc. People like her are responsible for cancelling WFH. Such people sort of have dictatorial tendencies and are disastrous when they are in influential positions. But unfortunately, most of people in influential positions are like her.
Actually many ppl dun see how many business depends on each other.. imagine 2 buildings of office workers.. 5 days work in office.. they come out for lunch.. they give rise to business like cafes, eatery and things like office stationary shops etc When you put 50% of the office on Work from Home.. the amount of ppl going out for lunch, having coffee breaks.. drop 50% and in turn those business also suffer.. so sometimes we just focus on OUR side of problems.. having to come in to work is a chore..
Sure, I wasted 2 hours of my time everyday fighting to go into office to bring businesses to the super expensive priced food they charged me in CBD? I expect businesses to solve my needs, not me giving out to them like charities by donating my time, money and effort. If WFH affects them negatively, it just says their business model is obsolete, time for them to adapt and change, not for me to go out of my way to give them business. It is business, not charity.
Plus if those business failed due to WFH, it just says that they have been piggybacking on the rest of the CBD businesses in terms of value. They don't provide enough value on their own.
Those who are not productive WFH should then be rated accordingly and if they want better ratings, they should go back to office, or if they fall below what the company need and they do not revert, they should be released. Why punish everybody because some are not disciplined or effective WFH? I mean, we are not talking about school kids here right? Right??
Exactly. If they need that kind of monitoring to work efficiently then it is better for them to be filtered out accordingly. This is the workplace, not school.
Realised that some parents who WFH might be less productive due to caring for their children at the same time. This happens to a few of our colleagues, whenever you need something from them, its seems to be slower or no response, sometimes need their teammates to back up. I rather the person take leave than not being productive due to the need to care for the children on that day. It's not fair for other people.
Bcoz the real estate is not doing well. Back then one person was hired for workload of an individual henceforth we had the luxury to chit chat but these days, one person is hired for three men workloads, it’s different post Covid, let’s be honest
The lady initially raised some valid points (although they do not justify 5-day RTO but maybe 2-3 days RTO instead) but she definitely lost me when she started saying “optics” was important to justify RTO.
Really cannot take it when people on the top start talking about fairness. Are you sure if you even understand every single person's "fairness". If you are not able to value because you can't see them, then don't you think the problem is on you? They also can't see what you do anyway, then how valuable you are? The boss need to see people work is one of the most scary thing for an employee because this would also increase "act" working. Why do we need to create this kind of problem and not learn to just be truthful towards each other? Love your job is not impossible, but at the end of the day job is not life.
idk if its just me, but i would consider travel expenses and affordability of food into my salary as well. being able to wfh meant an additional roughly $120 per month, purely for transport alone. Food is definitely cheaper at home than in industrial parks (esp cbd area)
MNCs won't even be wasting time debating with you or CNA about WFH. MNCs would have outsourced if they could, with or without WFH. Some SMEs don't have the choice of outsourcing and hence have to grapple with competition for local staff and spending time arguing on CNA.
I just find it odd that on the point that if WFH then you might as well be outsource. So conversely if we all RTO will this prevent outsourcing. If it does, then what shall be the underlying reason? Just because you see that person 5 times a week, we shall not consider outsourcing. Is it because she is pretty or he is handsome?
Why not partition the office to hold living quarters and offer cheap rentals so employees are living at the office 7 days a week and no need to commute? If you own existing properties you can rent the out for extra income and rent near or at office premises?
Consider this. Singaporeans had one of the world's lowest birth rate. Productive youngsters complain they do not time for dating. Going to work in Singapore is not like going in some factory in USA where road are less pack. Here roads are jam pack and stressed out travelling. Mrt and buses my wife already feedback by the end of her journey when she stand up she sees stars. And now we can have a new way of working why do we not consider it?
It's ironic that there are new ways of working in today's world like being able to get work done remotely and proven productive, yet there are management wanting to return to the old ways of working for what? Optics? So ridiculous.
I am going to get flamed but it seems that rto looks like an excuse by ineffective managers as a reason of their incompetency for being unable to adapt and innovate. With my few decades of experience in this planet I draw the conclusion that it is hard to change a person character. A lazy person will remain a lazy person. A hardworking person will find work to do too remain hardworking. People who laze at home will laze in office. People who are hardworking in office will be hardworking at home too. Called me lack of faith in human beings but I been trying to change my sister who hasn't been working since early 30s. Today she is nearing retirement age and she is still out of work . Rto does help for upper management who need to discuss and close collaboration. For those work who don't need team frequent team discussion everyday hybrid makes no difference and may help save rental and utilities.
Damn annoying, my boss ask me come back office work so they can ask hows the work going every time walking pass by~this Karen must be leaving all the things back at home to her maid 😅
Covid and WFH has made workers realise what a waste of time and money commuting is. Office workers want more from their life and not wasting, in my case, 2 hours of my day getting to and from the office.
Not everyone work is based on results or commission. So if your work depends on answering calls and giving a service..its like waiter.. they are paid the same ..during lunch peak hours..and even when there is no customers, does it mean they can go home when there is less customers.
Aiyo, those sme companies cannot WFH, they are not paperless, must print out everything for signing for approval for filling. Employee must 5 days in office if not how to run the business???
Will under the labour law, 44hrs per week, for your monthly pay. Some if during the 44hrs, you steal the company hours (paid) to do your own things! so can the company adjust your monthly pay?
At time 6:30 where Steven questioned if it's alright that people go and play golf if they really finished their work at 3pm. Based on my observations, it's quite rare for that to happen, simply because manpower is so expensive in SG. Most of the time, we actually don't have enough time to finish our standard work scope. So if someone can actually finish his/her work by 3pm consistently, then it likely means that that person's work needs to be re-scoped. Otherwise, wouldn't it be an inefficient headcount? Also, something might come up and other team members need you to discuss the issue etc and then you're at the golf course or manicure shop. How to have a productive discussion when you're at such a venue? I mean, if I'm playing golf or other sports games, I wouldn't be in the right state of mind to have a proper work discussion. This "I have to work from home because I've to look after my 3 yo kid" is quite absurd right IMO. How do you get your work done and look after a toddler at the same time??
"I have to work from home because I've to look after my 3 yo kid" This is actually not absurd but really practical. Because for most people, they live at least an one-hour commute away from their office, and their child care is nearer to their home than their office (since child-care near any office district is super expensive). So if they work from home, they can get off work and fetch their kids back in 30 mins or less. But if they work from office, they will be an hour late fetching their kids and run into all sorts of issues with childcare because of the unstable timing due to the long commute. Or on the other case, they hire a nanny at home to look after the kid, but they need an trusted adult in the house to supervise the nanny. WFH allows them to keep an eye on the nanny. How can anyone trusted a complete stranger whom they only knew for a few weeks/months to look after a helpless baby/toddler unsupervised? It is a roll of dice as to whether the child will be safe.
@@cancanjaker1620 So it's not so much that you've to look after the 3 yo; more like you're supervising your caretaker. It's tough for working mothers so I guess when you work out the WFH arrangements, it's important to be clear why you needed the options. Sounds more like flexible work arrangements is more critical rather than just simply WFH.
@@SharonTan-e3d Not really. It really depends on what you mean by "flexible working arrangement". It is a very general all-compassing term that appears to cover all grounds but really means nothing because different people and companies can have different interpretation how flexible and what kind of arrangement. Whereas WFH is simple and straightforward. TBH, if the interpretation of how flexible is not clear, it really creates bad vibes because it gives room for bosses to play favouritism and for bad employees to slack. At the end of the day, bosses and managers need to learn how to manage a remote team efficiently. WFH not only weed out the bad workers, it also weed out the bad managers. All the issues raised about WFH are all about managers not able to cope with managing remote teams. That got nothing to do with the actual work and productivity.
@@cancanjaker1620 I think we have to look at it from both sides, staff and managers. WFH does create opportunities for bad behaviour (after all out of sight out of mind) but managers would also have to do more and/or change their management methods to manage staff WFH. Both must have trust and share the responsibilities.
@@SharonTan-e3d "Out of sight, out of mind"? That is a really lazy attitude by a manager, and the manager can still have the nerve to complain about worker slacking? If a manager's style is only about what is right in front of them, then their style will be obsolete. Just think about when the first desktop computers come into office, and suddenly all documents are prepared and written on Word and all presentations are done using Powerpoint. You can have all the research about looking at a screen is bad for the eyes, workers can complain all about how they work more efficiently using pen and paper and a whiteboard. At the end of the day, you can't stop what is coming. The problem is not with workers working, it is about managers. Did no one ever think about if managers are the problem, then managers will be the ones that go away?
Let's be honest, forcing 5day RTO is a tactic by CEO/Top mgmt to get people to resign, so that company can downsize without having to worry about compensation.
What if those working in office and at home gets paid per hour basis at full and reduced rates respectively? Will people still want to work from home? Just thinking aloud.
Then you get reduced effort put in those hours at both office and wfh employees. Workers in office will think "I already came into office, my major job scope is done, why put in so. much effort". Workers at home will think "I get paid less, why should I put in so much effort".
@ @ that’s interesting! for such workers, then tell them to grow up and learn the word “responsibilities” or get a walking out certificate! It’s akin to a person paying $2 for a lottery and wins first prize but only wants to take $2 back cos his “effort” is only $2.
I agree with this discussion. We found quality of performance is affected when staff are working from home. And yes types of job need to be in the office. Some staff be lazy or extend “their weekend vibes” during the day, and work only at night then the following day they declare their sick. I agree in person has an effect on office cohesion. So a hybrid work protocol approach works - days at home, days in the office and be more structured and stricter accountability. Yes, reduction of people and pay to balance the costs involved - office fit out cost, saving costs on the employees as what employees say they are saving ( and yet working from home employees still want salary increases)
If it can be done in the cheaper countries, they will already setup a satellite office in the cheaper country. And let the managers fly over frequently to check on them. That is cheaper than all the exorbitant rental they charged for Singapore office space. So it is not because of WFH if they assign to cheaper countries.
@@cheng-choonsi7654 It will get there if Singapore workers sit around and complain about things like WFH instead of getting onboard the trend and learn to be more efficient to work remotely. In the world of technology, they go to where the best talents are. And best talents don't sit around complaining about changes and demanding for things to stay the same as in the olden times. If you don't want to change, the world moves on and leave you behind.
It is quite a nice debate/conversation here, speaking from employees and employer perspective. I somehow feel Karen is quite a micromanager, but i can understand why, because she is managing a team of 50 people, it is not easy to know what everyone is doing if they all WFH. What Crispina replied when they talked about out of sight mean out of mind, is a very Asian thing, which i agreed too. Hybrid work arrangement is better for introverts like me, i am afraid to bump into colleagues in pantry and toilet cos i dont want to have small talks with them and i focus alot better and hence more productive at home than in office. So i would vote for hybrid work arrangement to be kept here, i get my own time for deep work and concentration and dont miss out on human interaction with my team and colleagues...
Karen needs to adapt her managerial style. Managers need to be able to manage a remote team in future. If she cannot adapt, she will just become obsolete and keep whing about "who moved my cheese"
I would rather have white collar jobs that can be done at home, be WFH, and only come in, to the office once or two times a week. As a person that would have to go to work everyday commuting, I appreciate the less-crowded transportation. Thank you. If you are wondering, yes, most engineering jobs DO NOT have WFH privileges. So, no loss to us if they reintroduce RTO. But the crowded transportation is something I am not looking forward to.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
RTO is not about productivity, collaboration and etc, is about control.
And politics!
Companies that want this pollution by RTO should have their owners JAILED
If you cannot connect with your team virtually, it speaks more about your skills as a leader.
They missed out one important factor about ppl against rto 5-days week. Crowded trains & buses in peak hours.
well its not their problem with them being in their big cars and vip parking lots
This… high ranked rich people discussing about this are way too useless… i spent 2 hours to go to and back from office everyday. do they prefer a tired me or a fresh me at work?
They're quite out of touch with reality
@@hphclv1 erm, it has been this way for 50 years at least. So...In order for you kids to be more comfortable.....We have to implement WFH??
@@jefferytay3225 is that sarcastic/irony or not?
Note to self. Never apply for a job at Quess
It's clear that lady work scope and performance matrix in Quess is very different from her previous. Go different place sing different tune but pay definitely higher.
If you deem as a leader not just a manager you should emphasize and understand what your people want, not the other way round tell them what is good for them because you are not in their shoes
Exactly, imagine being that brainwashed
😅
She has the pick me attitude
WFH for me used to be something of a "luxury" but with certain trade offs. But recently I've been diagnosed with a life long condition and due to my condition and treatment, the doctors advised me to WFH from for long term (6 months to a year). My current employer which I've recently join has been super gracious to allow me to WFH for most of the time. I think WFH for people with disabilities and medical conditions really works out.
@@EthanChan medical reasons valid but laziness invalid!
Speaking as an employee - WFO should not be coined as a DEMAND by employers. WFH will always be a privilege and should only be on a case to case basis and only temporal. Employees who want WFH as a RIGHT ought to switch to gig work, be a FA or REA. Whether the job nature allows one to WFH is for the EMPLOYER to decide. Singaporeans need to wake up from their bubble. Many who do not have a critical reason to WFH often use company time to do personal things when WFH. Lets be brutally honest about our request to WFH. If you are unhappy, then find another employer.
@ yup!
@@MJxxxx5 No, there is no bubble to wakeup from. Health is wealth. Employees are exchanging non renewable valuables (time & health) with the company's renewable valuable (money). DON"T wait till you lose it to realize that.
Absolutely! Every sinngle word@@MJxxxx5
When I was employed, I enjoyed working, churning out materials, training, presentation notes and generally being productive, only to be distracted by frequent meetings, meetings and meetings which brings almost no benefit to productivity or value to achieving company KPIs. In the end, those who attend endless meetings never things done while productive people like us get affected.
wise
I'm more productive at home, when I don't have office drama around me and I have my cats for a quick 2-3 minute "face planting into their warm fuzzy bellies whenever things get too stressful" sessions.
I HATE office drama or what some people call "socializing". I don't need to be friends with my coworkers, I just need us to be able to work in a civilized manner and professional manner, period. I don't need to know what she's wearing, what brand of bag she bought, or when she shows up wearing the same clothes for 2 days
Karen sounds like someone who cares more about optics than logic and a micromanager who likes to keep tabs on her workers, prob the type that thinks leaving work before your manager is a deal-breaker too. Let's be honest, whether one is WFH or working in the office, no one is at 100% productivity at all times. There are distractions in both environments. There are days I wouldn't mind catching up with colleagues at work, and there are days I want to dive into work without having to exchange pleasantries with my colleagues. IMO, 2-3 days in office/week should suffice.
Also chances are she is annoying to her family who are happy she g
Her family doesn't want her around due to the attitude she displays. She must be such a joy to be around 😂 NOT
1
When she pointed how her company allows working overseas as if it’s like a great benefit for the staff, I knew she’s another typical apathetic boss. Not only she wants her ppl to WFO but work while you travel too!
TLDR; Please keep Karen Teo at work and let the rest of Singapore go on flex WFH. In fact, get her an office bed. She'll be a happy camper.
@@bummers @bummers omg! that will be too expensive cos she gets paid 24hrs and those work at home gets paid only per hour basis? Not enough to eat!!!
😂😂😂 best summary of this video yet.
Shes such a square
Yeah... she's definitely a corporate cog...
like she said, she just “joined the company” so she’s probably just tryna earn brownie points (aka angkat her boss).
traditional mindset (presence = productivity)😒
on the side note, really appreciate Mr Steven Chia, stating the pros and cons for RTO🫶🏼
companies really need to understand that not everyone is the same. some loves socialising (“water cooler talks”) and meeting new people; some just feel more productive at home (not having to wait for their colleague to finish their meal before going back to work, no distractions from colleagues at their work desk, not having to spend 2 hours on commute to and fro and not forgetting the peak hour crowd…..
Office is a toxic place where gossips are everywhere. I prefer working from home where I can have peace.
CNA, check out the majority of comments and stop featuring people like Karen Teo from Quess, who does not represent the majority. She does, however, accurately represent the greedy corporations and bosses out there who would rather cause an inconveniece to others for their own gains.
What inconveniences? If not for money will you work? Let's just face it, because COVID forced WFH, you got too comfortable. The impression one can be as effective at home as physically in office is forced upon the world to self justify. Wait till the day if you ever gotten into a more important role and you need things done immediately but you call him, call her, call that, but they never answer, then you know the fuss and the true meaning of inconvenience
Can’t agree more with you!
@@jefferytay3225 So basically employees need to be there for the managers to do their jobs? They can't effectively communicate remotely like everyone else can? Pretty clear that these conversations are exposing the inherent uselessness of most of management. An employee ignoring a manager's call is ultimately a hiring fail on the managers part. Do you disagree?
This Karen Teo is such a tool. Trying so hard to justify 5-days RTO for her company.
I get tired hearing people defending RTO, not everyone likes the traffic and commute effort
@@momomomo-lt5fs The best part is, she probably didn't like it either. But willing to promote it for her paycheck at the expense of others who prefers WFH.
@@Rion-uc4rp you wouldnt want this karen as a boss, seems like rabid when provoked
Lucky she not my colleague LOL
exactly. Simple solution to bonding: Have common days where the whole company works in office -- say, Tues, Wed, Thurs. U will see every colleague n have ur water cooler talk. I don't see how implementation affects this at all. Allow Mon and Fri to be WFH. That lady guest, i feel, is making excuses and already set in her mindset without realising her answers aren't really sound.
Actually hybrid is good. 2 days for people to share ideas in office. 3 days for them to pia output save the traveling hours.
I could handle staggered 2 days. That is about it
That is what they want you to thonk. They start gradually with 2 days and then increase to 3 and the full time back to office.
Hybrid arrangement is tte best. Conserving workers' energy can help staff to be more productive and focused. And by reducing unnecessary travels, we can reduce unnecessary expenses and waste of time; it also helps to prevent climate realated issues.
When I work from home, I even do work at night as my PC is on 24x7. I may have that sudden 1 hour of free time at night, and.... PC is on, so might as well do some work so that I have lesser backlogs.
When forced to 5 days RTO, I reach office before time but I leave on the dot.
P.S. My work never has an end. There are always things to do and deadlines are months away. Meaning there are no ending tasks. So the more I at screen, the more I complete. So 5 days RTO is essentially counter productive for me.
So true!! When I have more work to do, I would rather work from home because during crunch time I can do non-stop until 11pm or sometimes 2am. But when I’m in office, I go home on the dot and even when I have more work (thinking I can continue at home) after travelling 1.5hrs home, my body is on rest mode already and I end up procrastinating it for tomorrow.
Same here …
Thats how I think RTO is beneficial in a sense, it clearly and physically separates work and leisure time
“Transactional” - Karen Teo. Let’s be honest. Employee, employer relationship is always transactional. I’m trading my skills and time for that cold hard cash. So pls don’t guise that as a way to force RTO.
Ya and now the transaction requires to return to office. If you don’t like it go look for other job that you can wfh. No one forcing you to stay in the company but if you want to stay you need to follow company policy
Literally, picking up a laptop, time spent commuting, and doing exactly what you could do at home, in an office.
True idiocy
If your job can be done 100% from home. Chances are the work can be outsource to other countries with cheaper labour as long it meet certain requirements. There is a trade off to every decision. It may not be advantage to local employees, as job competition is no longer constrain to geographical barrier.
Somehow, during covid, work happened when people stayed at home. Suddently, work cant be done from home. Goverment Narratives are sometimes a joke.
@@maximus6884 there wasn't a choice then. even when productivity drops, nothing could be done, and at least it's better than nothing done. As mentioned, wfh isn't a good thing for singaporeans. If work can be done from home predominantly, then cheaper hungrier people overseas are more attractive. be careful wat u wish for, and don't end up being the real joke.
Outsourcing has already happened in my company. The so call cheaper and hungrier foreign workers who were supposed to be so good has high turn over as they realize Singaporean jobs are not so easy to be taken over. There is a lot of expertise and knowledge that singaproe side had build and is not that easy to transfer and learn by them. From what I heard a lot of knowledge transferred done but still is v hard for them to pick up. For those jobs that are very analytical and knowledge business base if wants to outsource, good luck to them.
@@ivancen5020 wise
exactly. those ppl still living in their dreamland until their work get replaced by oversea peeps.
I have been on a fully remote work before and now back to office work. So I can speak from experience. The fully remote work was gone due to retrenchment and the comment that someone mentioned below that if your work can done fully online, your role can be replaced with someone in a much cheaper country. This is true. Also, after working remote fully I realised that you are INDEED detached from the company. No amount of office events (we had one only) can replace building that relationship. Second, the reason why hybrid or remote was workable during COVID-19 was because EVERYONE was on the same arrangement. Now that I am in an office with hybrid arrangement I find it very disruptive as a new joiner to get things done and ask questions. Imagine some colleagues you will only see 1 or 2 days because Person A is on WFH 2 days and Person B on WFH for 1 day etc, but all are on different days. End up you may not meet Person A AND Person B for that week because your WFH is different. For hybrid to work, the only way to work efficiently is to mandate what days EVERYONE comes back to office and what days EVERYONE stays at home.
it really depends. There are jobs where you really don't need to meet your colleagues face to face. Everything can be done efficiently online. But for remote work to be efficient, people need to learn to work efficiently and get to the point, instead of running ideas to other people endlessly and hoping something will hit. Also people will need to learn to express themselves clearly in written form. There are many people who can't get to the point, or will go rumbling endlessly around a point. If they fail to learn that, they are just going to be left in the dust when remote work becomes the norm.
Be real, remote work means companies don't need to spend so much money on expensive office location and expensive renovation. You think you can stop that anymore than you can stop companies hiring "someone from a cheaper country". Plus, there is still plus points to hiring a person on remote in the same country. For one thing, the timezone is the same, the response time will still be faster and an arrangement for face to face is always easier. The culture is the same meaning communication is still going to be easier.
that boss... in white blazer is a walking red-flag boss
Hybrid is better. Office for collaboration, wfh for deep work. I'll be doing RTO next year, will definitely not be taking any more evening calls since I have to wake up earlier to go to the office.
Good that you can reject evening calls and still have a job/be promoted.
@jazzed2002 not chasing after a promotion anymore. The amount of pay and responsibility is a good balance now.
Unless you're literally an assembly line worker in a factory, there's no need for to be physically present for work. Digital nomads have been working remotely for decades. One reason MNCs mandate RTO is because they need to prop up the commercial property value, which would plummet if they're not utilized. Remote working also threatens the high salary that first world countries enjoy; if people can work anywhere on the globe, why not outsource work to India and pay much lower wages?
Not really . Service workers.. can you work from home at a police station, hospital, shopping mall, chefs .
"why not outsource work to India and pay much lower wages". It's happening.
The danger of a job that can be carried out remotely entirely, means that job can be offshored and saving 60% of the labour costs
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@@redmigeeold1417 it will happen more when you convince your boss that u are actually not needed in office
"Out of sight, out of mind" or "need to see you working in person to know you're working"... those are bosses who practice "management by walking around". They delegate deliverables to lower managers, which is why they lack visibility of who's delivering on their outcomes and who's not. The Board/senior mgt needs to assess whether this boss is even needed. It seems like his/her lower managers or the subordinates themselves can already take care of the deliverables. Why is he/she there for? What's his/her role, exactly?
There are benefits to RTO, but there are also costs too. Such as traveling time, transport cost, cost of work atire, meals, most important is time and its equivalent to getting a pay cut.
It's because corporate and public entities are oblivious to the much spoken mental well being.
Simple solution to bonding: Have *common days* where the whole company works in office -- say, Tues, Wed, Thurs. U will see every colleague n have ur water cooler talk. I don't see how implementation affects this at all. Allow Mon and Fri to be WFH. That lady guest, i feel, is making excuses and already set in her mindset without realising her answers aren't really sound.
For new joiners? Do 5 days a week for an initial orientation period for more contact time between bosses and new joiners. After orientation, apply hybrid schedule.
the time saved from commute. this should have been given more emphasis on the discussion.
and the energy saved on commute. Be honest, 80% of us are squeezed in the MRT peak hour trains and fighting to get to office. So it is one hour of energy spent on meaningless fighting just to get to sit in the office. And for what?
To lady's comment that she has "support functions" on her team where they have no "clear deliverables". Then you have basically structured their work wrong. You need to assess what their roles are and whether those roles are needed. What & who are they supporting? In what way? All roles have objective goals. Otherwise how do you size their roles and determine their salary & position in the hierarchy? Learn to structure your team's work better. If their goal is to be in office, to "stand by" or pick up ad hoc issues... then define their roles like F&B workers for example. Their role and goal is to "be available on site. Just in case something crops up." They should be hired for and paid based on the amount of time spent, not the amount of work done.
Basically she failed as a manager since she is unable to adapt and manage her team accordingly. If you can't do remote managing well, then you are just going to be obsolete soon when the time hits.
@@sean-the-man no clear deliverables sounds like a bullsh*t job
She is there to eyeball her coworkers so that they are "productive" so that end of the day she can let her bosses know she is also productive. 😂
i can understand if its 3 to 4 day return to office. But 5 days return to office is unreasonable.
For SME bobian.
Why must you be alllow to wfh. When company pay you the same salary. You don't like and want to go against the system then they should fired you.
Tell me if paying 5days is unreasonable too
give an inch today will ask for a mile tomorrow. what is so unreasonable of working 5 days in the office?
@@Skinnypole_clara Aiya up to employer and market dynamics lor. If the job really attractive, no employee will dare contest 3/4/5 days. Employer want 5 days then its not up to employee to decide.
Pls don't get interviewees from the management side or bosses because their view and kpi doesn't represent the wider audiences. Don't blame that we are lack of innovation because of work flexibly... Because we never in the past decade or present produce any worthy innovative products or companies.
A message to corporation or business if you know how make yourself standout or appeal to your customers, please also think about your employees, they are your assets. Understand what they appeals to them in this dynamic generation, not use your authority to tell what is good for them. If you fail to attract talents you shld know the reasons.
Well said!
there are pros and cons for both side.
WFH less travel time, online communication, working hours are blurred(which also means you could be working during non traditional office hours as well)
WIO expects you to be physically there in person but once you check out of office, you are out of office and no longer working (sets a clear boundary between work and leisure)
The 5 day RTO addiction was broken by covid… yet some addicts are nostalgic for that hit.
When Amazon announced their RTO our recruiters had a field day making offers to their staff. Also (especially?) for people who were further from the office and consequently were less interested in daily commutes of two hours or more.
I probably wouldn't want to work for the woman in the middle. She seems too set in her ways.
WFH is very important, especially for both working parents with young kids. However, yes, don't spoil the market - make sure work seriously and output on par or better. Also, note that this can only be done when the company is making good money. Otherwise, performance doesn't matter, everyone has to RTO. Another thing, wfh fully doesn't work because it means this can be outsourced to cheaper country.
The media want to push for RTO, and over emphasis those people who don't work seriously when WFH. For real, even when people work in office, those who will skive off will find a way to do so in office too.
Singapore is only just finding out now that WFH greatly reduces domestic consumption in retail trade and food & beverage (F&B) services, in addition reduces the return on profits on their offices and demand for building & engineering specialist services of our big urban and building solutions companies! In fact, with advent of technology many people have already been working overseas in cheaper countries while holding down Singapore's jobs on the pretext of WFH. When every December comes around, the whole city empties out as money flows elsewhere!
Being in Office, does not necessarily mean productivity, when it comes to laying off people, all possible excuses will be used. If the employee feels that by turning up at work for fear and that it will reduce their retrenchment chances then it is times to wake up.
WFH has it trade off, coworkers and bosses are respecting personal time less and less, meaning, you have awkward non office hour meetings, calls be it at lunch, be it before or after official office hours. In exchange for WFH and reasonably perhaps it is a fair trade.
Does being in office increases the chance of promotion, in today’s company promotion is not highly probable for many reasons, company maturity, budgeting, org design and such, so perhaps it does not really make a difference if you are physically in office, so long you deliver your work. Being in office for visibility tho not insignificant, perhaps is too superficial excuse and reason a boss or company can use.
And perhaps at some level, quiet quitting is in the background.
At the end of the day, everyone’s experience and take on WFH will be different and one will have to assess and make their own decisions.
I don't know why anyone below upper management level would work for a company that requires 5 days in office unless you enjoy being in an office. There's plenty of options, it's a new world for working, and there's just no logical reason to do that with modern technology.
The debate on RTO vs. WFH really highlights the diverse needs and perspectives within the workforce. It's clear that a one-size-fits-all approach won't work. Hybrid models seem to be the most balanced solution, allowing for both collaboration in the office and flexibility at home. However, it's crucial for companies to genuinely consider employee well-being and productivity, not just their own optics or control issues.
Pls admit that the pandemic has created new impression and new routine in today’s world of working. Coming back full RTO no longer makes sense when I am leading teammates across different time zones in different countries and how beneficial would it be when i come office where I can’t even face meet. All my meetings are virtual.
Its funny how organizations would jump the gun fast on new ways of working like online meetings and emails, but still chooses to go back to old ways of working.
All should work from home... So public transport not so crowded and those CEOs can have a lesser bonus
At least 2 days of WFH should continue. For mental well being and balance. Some people cannot focus in the office with constant noise and interruptions.. Some prefer coming in because it gives them structure. There’s no one size fits all thing such as 5 day RTO. If your company forces this on you, they clearly don’t value your well being at all. Employees well being is important, if not you’ll soon realise your talents leaving or employees quiet quitting.
I don’t agree very much with the lady in white.. Some ideas and concepts she’s pushing for are just so old school and set in Asian mentality. Feel like she’s the type that micromanages a lot. 🤢
The part about “optics”.. This results in alot of bias. Bosses assume/perceive you’re “more hardworking and committed” just because you show up at your desk daily. Maybe it’s time for bosses to reframe their narratives and perspective?? Employees can be competent and committed even if they’re not in the office everyday. Just be objective and look at the results delivered. Everyone is different and we all have different needs. Bosses should have honest conversations with their employees and support them as much as possible, help them be the best that they can be, to be happy, balanced and efficient. For some, this means having the option to decompress at home after fulfilling work responsibilities and to have a certain level of autonomy and flexibility.
Micro managers are so yesterday 😂 And so annoying 😓 Honestly.. If you treat your employees like crap, don’t expect loyalty and hard work. Yes, it affects your business and revenue 😂
For wfh to really work, there needs to be trust, mature responsible workers and management, and suitable roles. It doesn’t work for everyone. 1 colleague I had who was the 1st to put up his hand for flexi work hours, was the last the rest of us thought should be given that flexibility….for good reasons. Not saying he is reflective of everyone but such people are real.
The connections, ease of communication, discipline differs.
It's pretty clear that the ceos and managers are the ones with the maturity problem
If my employee can work 5 days a week from home, I’ll just outsource the entire department to another country where the same job can be done at a fraction of the price.
Thus proving that "collaboration and team culture " is a fake excuse.
Companies are already outsourcing and replacing local workers. But I am the bad guy if I think it is ridiculous to commute to be on zoom calls with India.
Hybrid wfh definitely is the future, but for entry position i suppose they do need to be in office more to "learn the ropes" before they can be reliably trusted to wfh with productivity.
Coming back to the office for optics is just dumb, full stop. There is no justification that optics alone equates to productivity.
Stop justifying 5 days RTO = flexibility; if u really mean flexibility, give the employees a hybrid wfh/rto arrangement or a full wfh (and rto when needed approach).
I agree with the NUS prof though, it's all about give and take. If employers are adamant about rto, then just be ready to have a smaller pool of talents compared to other employers.
5-days RTO or not, we should allow the market mechanism to work its way without regulatory interference.
Isn't it the case now? Coy got the choice to decide.
Can understand why some companies are mandating to work from office permanently. While some of us practise the discipline of working diligently at home, there are some who really abuse the system by skiving, moonlighting or doing their own things other than work. I do have a colleague at work who seldom appears in office and always claims to be busy although everyone knows his job scope is much less than the rest.
18:37 is 'gold': I believe at the end of the day it's all about trust between leaders and teams. Asking teams to RTO or 'silent RTO - have an official RTO policy but ask the team to come to the office verbally, or get ready to be penalized as 'non-productive' during evaluation", is a sign of leaders who are non-progressive and micro managers. It's also a sign that there are bigger problems beneath the surface.
For employee's benefit, 5 days RTO is not a good idea. Companies should at least have at least 1 day, better if it's 2 or 3 days WFH. This give the employees some 'downtime' - so much time is wasted getting ready for work, travelling to the work places especially considering traffic jams, public transportation.
Frankly, WFH is fantastic for SG as a nation.
Let me explain:
Ultimately in SG, the tightest resource is land/space
For 5 day work in office regimes, lets say the amount of office space required to generate Y dollars in GDP is X
For a 3 day work in office regime, it is possible that the same amount of X space can generate 1.6Y of dollars in GDP.
the 0.6Y dollars of GDP is being generated by people working from their own homes which is "free" space for the company & country.
lol karen is such a karen
Wfh is bad for owners of commercial buildings. Also the businesses serving office workers like transport. Wasteful activities are needed for gdp.
My company recently started hybrid model. They have already hired 80 freshers, highest number since inception. Many higher-ups have shared with me that this hiring is in anticipation of people leaving because of canceling of WFH. So this is a soft layoff.
The Quess country manager in this podcast seems to be pushy and extrovert person. All her reasoning are based on her own thinking like I wouldn't layoff people in the name of cancelling WFH for "company culture", I find it difficult know people virtually, etc. People like her are responsible for cancelling WFH. Such people sort of have dictatorial tendencies and are disastrous when they are in influential positions. But unfortunately, most of people in influential positions are like her.
Actually many ppl dun see how many business depends on each other.. imagine 2 buildings of office workers.. 5 days work in office.. they come out for lunch.. they give rise to business like cafes, eatery and things like office stationary shops etc
When you put 50% of the office on Work from Home.. the amount of ppl going out for lunch, having coffee breaks.. drop 50% and in turn those business also suffer.. so sometimes we just focus on OUR side of problems.. having to come in to work is a chore..
you are in sale?
Sure, I wasted 2 hours of my time everyday fighting to go into office to bring businesses to the super expensive priced food they charged me in CBD? I expect businesses to solve my needs, not me giving out to them like charities by donating my time, money and effort. If WFH affects them negatively, it just says their business model is obsolete, time for them to adapt and change, not for me to go out of my way to give them business. It is business, not charity.
Plus if those business failed due to WFH, it just says that they have been piggybacking on the rest of the CBD businesses in terms of value. They don't provide enough value on their own.
Those who are not productive WFH should then be rated accordingly and if they want better ratings, they should go back to office, or if they fall below what the company need and they do not revert, they should be released.
Why punish everybody because some are not disciplined or effective WFH?
I mean, we are not talking about school kids here right? Right??
Exactly. If they need that kind of monitoring to work efficiently then it is better for them to be filtered out accordingly. This is the workplace, not school.
My office is on the East Coast, I live in the Bay Area. They are not calling us all back.
Interested to see how Lady White will appraise an employee that has hybrid work and another that has 5 day RTO 🧐
Realised that some parents who WFH might be less productive due to caring for their children at the same time. This happens to a few of our colleagues, whenever you need something from them, its seems to be slower or no response, sometimes need their teammates to back up. I rather the person take leave than not being productive due to the need to care for the children on that day. It's not fair for other people.
Bcoz the real estate is not doing well.
Back then one person was hired for workload of an individual henceforth we had the luxury to chit chat but these days, one person is hired for three men workloads, it’s different post Covid, let’s be honest
The real estate is one huge bubble. Unrealistic inflation of prices. Let it crash.
The arguement "If i approve your request to WFH, what will other people say?" is weak.
The lady initially raised some valid points (although they do not justify 5-day RTO but maybe 2-3 days RTO instead) but she definitely lost me when she started saying “optics” was important to justify RTO.
Really cannot take it when people on the top start talking about fairness. Are you sure if you even understand every single person's "fairness". If you are not able to value because you can't see them, then don't you think the problem is on you? They also can't see what you do anyway, then how valuable you are?
The boss need to see people work is one of the most scary thing for an employee because this would also increase "act" working. Why do we need to create this kind of problem and not learn to just be truthful towards each other? Love your job is not impossible, but at the end of the day job is not life.
idk if its just me, but i would consider travel expenses and affordability of food into my salary as well. being able to wfh meant an additional roughly $120 per month, purely for transport alone. Food is definitely cheaper at home than in industrial parks (esp cbd area)
if nobody back to office. how to justify the rental spent? can cut off office admin / manager job already.
MNCs won't even be wasting time debating with you or CNA about WFH. MNCs would have outsourced if they could, with or without WFH. Some SMEs don't have the choice of outsourcing and hence have to grapple with competition for local staff and spending time arguing on CNA.
I just find it odd that on the point that if WFH then you might as well be outsource. So conversely if we all RTO will this prevent outsourcing. If it does, then what shall be the underlying reason? Just because you see that person 5 times a week, we shall not consider outsourcing. Is it because she is pretty or he is handsome?
Where is the representative of average employees who don't get paid as much as the two guest speakers and don't drive?
Why not partition the office to hold living quarters and offer cheap rentals so employees are living at the office 7 days a week and no need to commute? If you own existing properties you can rent the out for extra income and rent near or at office premises?
Is it about trust? Do you trust your people that things will get done?
Add 2 more younger workers into the conversation. Only Dr Isaac is balanced and nuanced.
Consider this. Singaporeans had one of the world's lowest birth rate. Productive youngsters complain they do not time for dating. Going to work in Singapore is not like going in some factory in USA where road are less pack. Here roads are jam pack and stressed out travelling. Mrt and buses my wife already feedback by the end of her journey when she stand up she sees stars. And now we can have a new way of working why do we not consider it?
It's ironic that there are new ways of working in today's world like being able to get work done remotely and proven productive, yet there are management wanting to return to the old ways of working for what? Optics? So ridiculous.
I am going to get flamed but it seems that rto looks like an excuse by ineffective managers as a reason of their incompetency for being unable to adapt and innovate. With my few decades of experience in this planet I draw the conclusion that it is hard to change a person character. A lazy person will remain a lazy person. A hardworking person will find work to do too remain hardworking. People who laze at home will laze in office. People who are hardworking in office will be hardworking at home too. Called me lack of faith in human beings but I been trying to change my sister who hasn't been working since early 30s. Today she is nearing retirement age and she is still out of work . Rto does help for upper management who need to discuss and close collaboration. For those work who don't need team frequent team discussion everyday hybrid makes no difference and may help save rental and utilities.
Damn annoying, my boss ask me come back office work so they can ask hows the work going every time walking pass by~this Karen must be leaving all the things back at home to her maid 😅
Covid and WFH has made workers realise what a waste of time and money commuting is. Office workers want more from their life and not wasting, in my case, 2 hours of my day getting to and from the office.
Not everyone work is based on results or commission. So if your work depends on answering calls and giving a service..its like waiter.. they are paid the same ..during lunch peak hours..and even when there is no customers, does it mean they can go home when there is less customers.
All wfh, no need office, price drop, no need transportation, mrt no business
Aiyo, those sme companies cannot WFH, they are not paperless, must print out everything for signing for approval for filling. Employee must 5 days in office if not how to run the business???
Will under the labour law, 44hrs per week, for your monthly pay. Some if during the 44hrs, you steal the company hours (paid) to do your own things! so can the company adjust your monthly pay?
Boss' rationale to go in the office: "watercooler chats".
gossips lah.
At time 6:30 where Steven questioned if it's alright that people go and play golf if they really finished their work at 3pm. Based on my observations, it's quite rare for that to happen, simply because manpower is so expensive in SG. Most of the time, we actually don't have enough time to finish our standard work scope. So if someone can actually finish his/her work by 3pm consistently, then it likely means that that person's work needs to be re-scoped. Otherwise, wouldn't it be an inefficient headcount?
Also, something might come up and other team members need you to discuss the issue etc and then you're at the golf course or manicure shop. How to have a productive discussion when you're at such a venue? I mean, if I'm playing golf or other sports games, I wouldn't be in the right state of mind to have a proper work discussion.
This "I have to work from home because I've to look after my 3 yo kid" is quite absurd right IMO. How do you get your work done and look after a toddler at the same time??
"I have to work from home because I've to look after my 3 yo kid" This is actually not absurd but really practical. Because for most people, they live at least an one-hour commute away from their office, and their child care is nearer to their home than their office (since child-care near any office district is super expensive). So if they work from home, they can get off work and fetch their kids back in 30 mins or less. But if they work from office, they will be an hour late fetching their kids and run into all sorts of issues with childcare because of the unstable timing due to the long commute. Or on the other case, they hire a nanny at home to look after the kid, but they need an trusted adult in the house to supervise the nanny. WFH allows them to keep an eye on the nanny. How can anyone trusted a complete stranger whom they only knew for a few weeks/months to look after a helpless baby/toddler unsupervised? It is a roll of dice as to whether the child will be safe.
@@cancanjaker1620 So it's not so much that you've to look after the 3 yo; more like you're supervising your caretaker. It's tough for working mothers so I guess when you work out the WFH arrangements, it's important to be clear why you needed the options. Sounds more like flexible work arrangements is more critical rather than just simply WFH.
@@SharonTan-e3d Not really. It really depends on what you mean by "flexible working arrangement". It is a very general all-compassing term that appears to cover all grounds but really means nothing because different people and companies can have different interpretation how flexible and what kind of arrangement. Whereas WFH is simple and straightforward. TBH, if the interpretation of how flexible is not clear, it really creates bad vibes because it gives room for bosses to play favouritism and for bad employees to slack.
At the end of the day, bosses and managers need to learn how to manage a remote team efficiently. WFH not only weed out the bad workers, it also weed out the bad managers. All the issues raised about WFH are all about managers not able to cope with managing remote teams. That got nothing to do with the actual work and productivity.
@@cancanjaker1620 I think we have to look at it from both sides, staff and managers. WFH does create opportunities for bad behaviour (after all out of sight out of mind) but managers would also have to do more and/or change their management methods to manage staff WFH. Both must have trust and share the responsibilities.
@@SharonTan-e3d "Out of sight, out of mind"? That is a really lazy attitude by a manager, and the manager can still have the nerve to complain about worker slacking? If a manager's style is only about what is right in front of them, then their style will be obsolete.
Just think about when the first desktop computers come into office, and suddenly all documents are prepared and written on Word and all presentations are done using Powerpoint. You can have all the research about looking at a screen is bad for the eyes, workers can complain all about how they work more efficiently using pen and paper and a whiteboard. At the end of the day, you can't stop what is coming.
The problem is not with workers working, it is about managers. Did no one ever think about if managers are the problem, then managers will be the ones that go away?
Let's be honest, forcing 5day RTO is a tactic by CEO/Top mgmt to get people to resign, so that company can downsize without having to worry about compensation.
What if those working in office and at home gets paid per hour basis at full and reduced rates respectively? Will people still want to work from home? Just thinking aloud.
Then you get reduced effort put in those hours at both office and wfh employees. Workers in office will think "I already came into office, my major job scope is done, why put in so. much effort". Workers at home will think "I get paid less, why should I put in so much effort".
@ @ that’s interesting! for such workers, then tell them to grow up and learn the word “responsibilities” or get a walking out certificate! It’s akin to a person paying $2 for a lottery and wins first prize but only wants to take $2 back cos his “effort” is only $2.
i think ppl are making this issue too complicated. It's really just you see from the employee or the employer POV
It's a classic case of "if you can't convince them, confuse them".
I agree with this discussion. We found quality of performance is affected when staff are working from home. And yes types of job need to be in the office. Some staff be lazy or extend “their weekend vibes” during the day, and work only at night then the following day they declare their sick. I agree in person has an effect on office cohesion. So a hybrid work protocol approach works - days at home, days in the office and be more structured and stricter accountability. Yes, reduction of people and pay to balance the costs involved - office fit out cost, saving costs on the employees as what employees say they are saving ( and yet working from home employees still want salary increases)
I like this prof! Cna should have him more
If your jobs can WFH, why don't they just assigned to other cheaper countries why hire staff in SG and pay SGD 😂
If it can be done in the cheaper countries, they will already setup a satellite office in the cheaper country. And let the managers fly over frequently to check on them. That is cheaper than all the exorbitant rental they charged for Singapore office space. So it is not because of WFH if they assign to cheaper countries.
It can get there if we continue to move in this direction.
@@cheng-choonsi7654 It will get there if Singapore workers sit around and complain about things like WFH instead of getting onboard the trend and learn to be more efficient to work remotely. In the world of technology, they go to where the best talents are. And best talents don't sit around complaining about changes and demanding for things to stay the same as in the olden times. If you don't want to change, the world moves on and leave you behind.
If everyone is working for home WEF won't be able to order another round of vaccine mandates for covid 25
its 2025 and people still work in offices? 😂 what a pity
Does the company adjust the salary or allowance when working in office days are reduced ? Why yes or why no ?
Support for Steve
justification of rent. Landlord pushes company to get their employees back to stop rental price from going down.
stealth layoffs
It is quite a nice debate/conversation here, speaking from employees and employer perspective. I somehow feel Karen is quite a micromanager, but i can understand why, because she is managing a team of 50 people, it is not easy to know what everyone is doing if they all WFH. What Crispina replied when they talked about out of sight mean out of mind, is a very Asian thing, which i agreed too. Hybrid work arrangement is better for introverts like me, i am afraid to bump into colleagues in pantry and toilet cos i dont want to have small talks with them and i focus alot better and hence more productive at home than in office. So i would vote for hybrid work arrangement to be kept here, i get my own time for deep work and concentration and dont miss out on human interaction with my team and colleagues...
Karen needs to adapt her managerial style. Managers need to be able to manage a remote team in future. If she cannot adapt, she will just become obsolete and keep whing about "who moved my cheese"
I would rather have white collar jobs that can be done at home, be WFH, and only come in, to the office once or two times a week. As a person that would have to go to work everyday commuting, I appreciate the less-crowded transportation. Thank you. If you are wondering, yes, most engineering jobs DO NOT have WFH privileges. So, no loss to us if they reintroduce RTO. But the crowded transportation is something I am not looking forward to.
For security and of course to be able to patent without doubt every possible invention made by employees, all employers prefer you to work in office.
The reason why people dislike coming to office 5 days is because of COMMUTING!
TBH, it also includes a lot of money saved on personal grooming and dressing.
Privilege vs Entitlement. We humans are like that.
on 1 hand, companies want 5 days return to office. On another hand, companies go 4 working days. hmmm ...
update yourself. Companies already said they are not going 4 working days.
5 day a week? my company "operated all day and night for the whole week" not that i work all the shift but there's policy that tiptoe around it.