This Is So Unfair! - Let's Talk Squash [057]
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2022
- Very interesting thing happened in the second round of the Grasshopper Cup in Zurich this week.
What do you think Dessouky should have done? What changes need to be made to the process to ensure this doesn't happen again?
Tell me your thoughts.
Here are the highlights: www.squash.tv/highlights/dess...
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"Ok Let's edit it out" then keeps it in, made my day :D
I knew I wasn't going to edit it out, but wanted to say something. It's all part of the "live recording" that I know might not always seem professional, but I feel it adds authenticity to the Lets Talk Squash videos.
Even though Dessouky was in the right, he has a LONG history of throwing tantrums and letting his emotions get the better of him. One of the reasons why he's never really reached his full potential. He has to learn how to let go and move on and this is no different.
That's true. From a mindset perspective, he should have just forgotten about it and played the next game, then made a formal complaint and followed the agreed procedure. That's assuming there is an agreed procedure for when the refs look at the wrong shot.
something similar happened with rodriguez and soliman in the 3rd of the this years british open . on match ball youseff soliman played a drop which was low but not down ( the commentators replayed it and it was perfectly fine ) . the referee called it down and he was furious . he lost that match because of the referees error . psa needs to sort out their ref team
I don't feel this is similar at all. In the case above, the refs looked at the correct shot. yes, they made a mistake, but in this case, the refs looked at the wrong shot.
Can’t find the match ,so can’t give a refereeing opinion on it ..?!?!
I have a recollection of reading an article in the newspaper about cricket written by Mike Atherton from years and years ago. He opened this with, "Life's not fair. Why should sport be any different?". Well over a decade ago when playing comp, I was awarded a stroke that I shouldn't have been. I suggested to the ref I'd be happy to play a let. They said no. I apologised to my opponent (a really good bloke), and he said, "Just play the ref's call" - this is in the spirit of the game. Fares was on the end of a bad decision. Play on.
I know what you mean. And ultimately, that's what we have to do. But such a clear injustice must not be allowed to continue.
I believe PSA should be professional about it, and give Desuki the point. After this tournament, PSA should look into how they make judgement on reviews so that the players won't argue about it.
I agree that the PSA needs to address the process.
What do you think Dessouky should have done?
If I were him - argue your case but I think after getting it overturned to a let, that is the best you can hope for - take the small victory here and play on....that is what I would say at any other point in the game. If you are talking about this point in particular, I would fight hard and appeal to them to take the time to get this particularly crucial point correct.
What changes need to be made to the process to ensure this doesn't happen again?
Honestly I want to see the advent of a truly "smart court" at the professional level. Something like a double bounce is something a sensor should be able to pick up on the court, same with the out lines, you should have these be automated into a court. This is the same reason sports like baseball are talking about taking the human element of calling balls and strikes out of the game. In 2022, we have the technology to get a level of precision that we never had before. The question becomes whether or not we want to keep this human element in the game. I think at the a professional level we owe it to the athletes to get these calls right, and if that takes some sensors in the floor or something else that would be awesome and free up the referee to focus less on those aspects of the game and more on other areas.
I think , and of course this is in retrospect, I would have tried to get the referee to verbal accept that they looked at the wrong shot. That alone would allow for a later appeal and open the gates for a change in the process.
I suppose the technology exists for double bounces, but it might be too expensive for such a small sport. The same with foot faults, although having those decisions made by sensors would be great.
imho, in general a lot of ref decisions in this tournament are quit poor, yesterdays game vs paul coll shows it
I can't comment on that as I haven't seen any matches.
What a mess that was for sure. But how do the officials redress it in hindsight??, they'll have to come up with an answer at some stage for a 'replay error'. To me the VR is a good thing, however here they erred bigtime.
It seems to me that the answer is the player must clearly state which shot they are appealing, before the video referee begins to look at the rally. Once the player has stated which one, then no change can be made.
Given that is an easy, objective decision which everyone saw on the screen I don't see why Fares is being anywhere in the wrong here. Or Mossad being praised for agreeing to a let. We have enough issues with subjective (let/no let/stroke) decisions that this issues with clean, objective decisions simply cannot go wrong. Can't put the burden of sportsmanship on the players alone: the refs and others (technical team etc) have a role in upholding the spirit of the game too!
I fully agree, especially about Omar agreeing to play a let. Although a 20-minute break is too long to finally reach that point.
The referees give frequently get double bounce and out of court decisions wrong even on review. Should have gone to ... the opticians.
Sensors might be the only way forward.
@@BetterSquash or spectacles! They need to be able to use video reviews for line calls.
The PSA is becoming really embarrassing. Marwan won a tournament last year on a clear double bounce that the refs reviewed and still got wrong. Video reviews should go to Joey and PJ
It's things like this that reflect badly on squash. Every sport has "sporting decisions" that we disagree with but the refs are under a lot of pressure, but this wasn't a sporting decision - it was different.
Having the refs with a mic during the review process might be interesting, and yes, even having the Joey and PJ do it might be better!
I thought I heard in the commentary that Desuki had no reviews left, so had no recourse to appeal.
Yes it’s a mistake by the refs but we’re all human and Desuki should have let it go. I understand his frustration but he’s a professional and move on
Just to be clear, we are not talking about "sporting decisions" i.e. getting a call wrong, we are talking about looking at the wrong shot. That's a clear mistake by the refs that could be immediately fixed.
I’m struggling to side with Dessouky on this one, not because I think he was wrong but because of his recent behaviour on court. His match against Coll after this one where he’s clearly pushing him into the side wall, or nearly falling over as he tries to block him. I just don’t have sympathy for him when he acts like this, trying to bend the rules in his favour. Sometimes it’s best to accept a bad decision and move on.
Yeah, while each situation should be looked at in isolation, there's also the case to be made for recurrent behaviour. Refs are more likely to be open to helping if you are generally friendly.
why can't they get a version of eagle eye from tennis to sort out these controversial situations...
Maybe they can, but how expensive is it? One other commenter mentioned having sensor for double. bounces and I agree that it would help the refs.
So many bad calls from the referees at the top level even with the aid of the video review system. The sport is a mess at the top level. Even the final decision *no let* - it was clearly a stroke to Mossad. The second bounce of the ball was almost on the T!!!
All sports have bad sporting decisions, but I agree squash is taking it to the next level.
@@BetterSquash spot on.
rally on SquashTV at ~9m10s
Thank you. I just put the link as I thought people might want to watch the whole thing.
Maradona hand of God was worse but England took it on the chin. Dessouki had to move on....tough
I don't think it's a valid comparison. Imagine if video review technology had been available at the time and England asked for a video review and the refs looked at a tackle before the goal and said "No, that was okay". You feel feel even more injustice. Bad sporting decision are part of sport, but this was something different.
I understand but it just shows us all how much more work the squash governing body has to do to ensure that the refereeing system is less distracting and more focused for all the officials involved.
Besides, I think players (amateurs and professionals) and the commentators need more education about the rules of this beautiful sport of gentle souls - a refereeing course should be recommended across the board.
It doesn't matter what type of mistake it is. The player can appeal and if the referee does not change any previous decision, the player can still appeal later filling a protest to the Tournament Director, but he should keep on playing that particular game. After that it could also fill a formal protest to the PSA. One problem with PSA tournaments is that they don't have a team working in real-time in the background during the games verifying any possible gross errors from the referees and that should be able to notify the referees of the mistakes.
I take your point, but what if you lost a match due to the refs doing a video review on the wrong shot? I agree that any and all sporting play decisions must be accepted, but this was different. I also think it's worth remember, that this is how people make a living. If it happened in our jobs we might make the same fuss.
@@BetterSquash Objectively it doesn't matter what the mistake was. Imagine if you lost a final after an obvious wrong referee stroke or no let decision? Or imagine the video is not available for a particular important shot due to a temporarily malfunction of the video equipment and the referees make a mistake on a not up call? It doesn't matter. The player should continue play. Stopping play does not help in any way. After the match the player can fill an official protest including demand for financial compensation. And if still not satisfied it could take the matter to the courts.
@@BetterSquash good point, but matches are many points not just one. If you lose a match, a bad call can be a part of why, but can never be the whole reason, matches are always longer than one point.
Well, if those are the PSA rules, then he has to follow them. I feel strongly about this because my sense of justice needs to be satisfied, but the whole situation makes me angry - which is stupid because I don't even watch much pro squash, and certainly don't support any particular players.