This is what I like about you the most. You try to explain why, how, alternatives, and method, like any really good teacher, sharing the knowledge you have gained. Thanks, never change. Folks like you are needed more today than ever. You may not realize it but you are perpetuating an almost lost skill. ;-)
@@keithappleton Keith, I don't make these comments just to be nice. People all need encouragement and to be appreciated, especially when it is in ways similar to you. I don't know jack about what you do, so easily, and what I do know I've learned from you. ;-)
Hello Keith, do you have a video on oils and what you should see in your lubricator? I recently changed oil and am seeing something different, now questioning which oil. Would like to have a chat.
Use Steam Oil. Superheater Steam Oil, I mention it a lot in my videos. I can only give limited tech support to my Patreon Supporters: www.patreon.com/keithappleton
If you are running a Steam Engine on air, one way to get it lubricated is to treat is like an air tool and use an air tool lubricator. A fellow modeler I know who builds superb models displays them on custom made stands that include a FRL (Filter Regulator Lubricator ) unit. When at shows he just plugs an air line into the manifold and can adjust each of his models to run at a proper speed.
Excellent explanation! I used to fiddle around with the full scale ones when i was on the axe factory, the ratchet pumps are often fitted to old powerhammers and forging press/cutting machinery, they are a bit more complicated, but the basic princip is still exactly the same.
Bonjour Keith, The problem with a drain tap when the steam plant is in a hull is that it is quite difficult to open and close, this is why I am always obliged to use a syringe to remove the water after a navigation. I guess they have been initially conceived for static steam plants... Besides this, i have a glass Microcosm lubricator, it leaked and I broke the glass by tighting it too much, so I replaced it by a brass one. Furthermore, running generally at 30 PSI I keep the benefit of the lubricant characteristics of a wet steam. Amicalement, Raphaël
Thanks Keith very informative for those looking for the info. i run full size engines and often they have a 2 line displacement lubricators' with a condensing bulb on the top, are they ever use on model engines?
Something to consider when it comes to displacement lubricators... They have no moving parts, contain oil and water which are both non-compressible fluids, steam has to get in (so it can condense into water) and oil has to get out through the same hole the steam is coming in. You might think that the pressure in the steam line is constant, but it isn't. As the piston begins to travel into the cylinder and the valve opens there is a momentary drop in pressure in the steam line. When the valve closes a shock wave travels back up the steam line (at the speed of sound for the medium through which it passes) like a water hammer though without the destructive effect since steam is a compressible fluid. This is why it is a good idea to locate a displacement lubricator as close as possible to the engine where the effects are greatest. Can the displacement lubricator be improved? I have seen them with cooling fins on the lower third of the body to dissipate heat and thus improve condensation of the steam. However, I have only ever seen this on French engines - everyone else seems happy with their lubricators just the way they are.
For load bearing steam engines, would you recommend a displacement lubricator or a mechanical one? I was planning to use a displacement lubricator for mine but I see mechanical lubricators as more reliable somehow. These are however more complex of course so I'd like to hear your opinion before it's Decision Day ;). Also thanks to you I started using my dads old bahco on unions ect, works like a champ having to not search for all the spanner sizes all the time. Cheers.
My loco has a displacement lubricator but with no needle, only a drain and a screw to shut it once oil is added. My question is if its safe to refill if i make sure to have my steam regulator fully shut?
Hi Keith, thanks for your videos and wisdom. I’m restoring a pair of Alco Firefly Stuart Sirius engines. (I also have an original complete genset and what may be the first type of boiler made for it, with vertical sliding fire door.) In the “military” configuration, they weren’t fit with displacement lubricators, yet the “civilian” ones always are. Is a displacement lubricator necessary for a Sirius at the 30 psi saturated steam the Alco units operated for up to 2.5 hours? Or do you think the omission of a displacement lubricator was more likely a matter of wartime expediency?
I would recommend a Displacement Lubricator, although wet steam at 30psi would also lubricate the cylinders. But as you say, Wartime use is probably the reason they didn't fit a lubricator. People trying to buy Steam Cylinder Oil in occupied France would be a dead giveaway }:-)))
After a few different attempts to get the lubricator to take more than just a few drops, I found that it needed to angled slightly down to get condensed water to run down to it and displace the oil. Is the set up that critical? A good topic to cover, thanks
I notice on all of these including the glass one that it's tee'd into the steam line with only one pipe going into the actual body of the lubricator, but the one I have on my engine has the steam line going through the body and out the other side. It still seems to work fine and plenty of the oil is displaced by water, is that uncommon?
Novice here... Does that mean that oil goes out into the steam pipes, using the same single passage as the steam that goes into the oiler? I bought one from Microcosm, just out of curiosity. And now I am quite confused about it, since the passage seems very narrow. Also, there is something rattling inside, on the lower section, where the drainage needle is. Can't see what it is...
Perhaps a dumb question, but is there a particular reason the design includes a pretty small volume ? Clearly convenient where size is an issue,but something with more storage volume would mean less fiddling with a pretty messy product. Or is it about sized for a good run,so cleaning up after is easier ? For someone like me,good at forgetting stuff,a glass barrel would be my first choice. Visual cues. The consequences of insufficient lubrication kind of make me cringe. Having lots of spare storage volume would be my first choice. I suppose I am missing something here.
It's a matter of scale - model Displacement Lubricators are quite over scale to start with relative to the size of the steam engine, so a bigger one would look even more unsightly as does the glass "see through" type in my opinion. A normal sized lubricator like the Stuart type usually holds enough oil for quite a long run.
This is what I like about you the most. You try to explain why, how, alternatives, and method, like any really good teacher, sharing the knowledge you have gained. Thanks, never change.
Folks like you are needed more today than ever. You may not realize it but you are perpetuating an almost lost skill. ;-)
I appreciate that, thank you {:-)))
@@keithappleton Keith, I don't make these comments just to be nice. People all need encouragement and to be appreciated, especially when it is in ways similar to you. I don't know jack about what you do, so easily, and what I do know I've learned from you. ;-)
Interesting video Keith... I now know how a displacement lubricator works... Thank you...
Great video mate! I am looking for drawing to build one of them..
Blackgates Engineering will have a drawing for the "Sweet Pea" locomotive Displacement Lubricators, try them. www.blackgates.co.uk
Cheers, Keith! Always appreciated!
Hello Keith, do you have a video on oils and what you should see in your lubricator? I recently changed oil and am seeing something different, now questioning which oil. Would like to have a chat.
Use Steam Oil. Superheater Steam Oil, I mention it a lot in my videos. I can only give limited tech support to my Patreon Supporters: www.patreon.com/keithappleton
If you are running a Steam Engine on air, one way to get it lubricated is to treat is like an air tool and use an air tool lubricator. A fellow modeler I know who builds superb models displays them on custom made stands that include a FRL (Filter Regulator Lubricator ) unit. When at shows he just plugs an air line into the manifold and can adjust each of his models to run at a proper speed.
Yes I use that system sometimes for prolonged running on air.
Excellent explanation!
I used to fiddle around with the full scale ones when i was on the axe factory, the ratchet pumps are often fitted to old powerhammers and forging press/cutting machinery, they are a bit more complicated, but the basic princip is still exactly the same.
Very informative. Thanks Keith.
Glad you enjoyed it
Bonjour Keith,
The problem with a drain tap when the steam plant is in a hull is that it is quite difficult to open and close, this is why I am always obliged to use a syringe to remove the water after a navigation. I guess they have been initially conceived for static steam plants...
Besides this, i have a glass Microcosm lubricator, it leaked and I broke the glass by tighting it too much, so I replaced it by a brass one.
Furthermore, running generally at 30 PSI I keep the benefit of the lubricant characteristics of a wet steam.
Amicalement, Raphaël
Thanks, really useful video.
Thanks Keith very informative for those looking for the info. i run full size engines and often they have a 2 line displacement lubricators' with a condensing bulb on the top, are they ever use on model engines?
What size and capacity displacement lubricator would be appropriate for a Stewart 5A engine?
I don't recommend them for a Stuart 5A. It is better to use a mechanical lubricator.
Something to consider when it comes to displacement lubricators...
They have no moving parts, contain oil and water which are both non-compressible fluids, steam has to get in (so it can condense into water) and oil has to get out through the same hole the steam is coming in.
You might think that the pressure in the steam line is constant, but it isn't. As the piston begins to travel into the cylinder and the valve opens there is a momentary drop in pressure in the steam line. When the valve closes a shock wave travels back up the steam line (at the speed of sound for the medium through which it passes) like a water hammer though without the destructive effect since steam is a compressible fluid. This is why it is a good idea to locate a displacement lubricator as close as possible to the engine where the effects are greatest.
Can the displacement lubricator be improved? I have seen them with cooling fins on the lower third of the body to dissipate heat and thus improve condensation of the steam. However, I have only ever seen this on French engines - everyone else seems happy with their lubricators just the way they are.
As you say, the model ones seem to be fine fine as they are. }:-)))
For load bearing steam engines, would you recommend a displacement lubricator or a mechanical one? I was planning to use a displacement lubricator for mine but I see mechanical lubricators as more reliable somehow. These are however more complex of course so I'd like to hear your opinion before it's Decision Day ;). Also thanks to you I started using my dads old bahco on unions ect, works like a champ having to not search for all the spanner sizes all the time. Cheers.
Mechanical every time.
@@keithappleton Cheers
My loco has a displacement lubricator but with no needle, only a drain and a screw to shut it once oil is added. My question is if its safe to refill if i make sure to have my steam regulator fully shut?
Yes as long as there is no steam leak from the regulator.
Would a automatic one like the Stuart type be ok on a 5 inch gauge loco like a simplex at all?
Mechanical lubricators are much better for a 5 inch gauge locomotive.....
@@keithappleton ok thanks for your advice it’s helpful
Hi Keith, great vid as always. Could you tell me where you get your oil cans from please and your blend of steam oil. many thanks
"Reilang" Oil cans from www.blackgates.co.uk Steam Oil & general Lubricating oil from www.halletoil.co.uk
@@keithappleton cheers!
Do displacement lubricators work with superheated steam? Especially if you have a short, well-insulated line.
Yes they seem to from my exxperience.
Hi Keith, thanks for your videos and wisdom. I’m restoring a pair of Alco Firefly Stuart Sirius engines. (I also have an original complete genset and what may be the first type of boiler made for it, with vertical sliding fire door.)
In the “military” configuration, they weren’t fit with displacement lubricators, yet the “civilian” ones always are. Is a displacement lubricator necessary for a Sirius at the 30 psi saturated steam the Alco units operated for up to 2.5 hours? Or do you think the omission of a displacement lubricator was more likely a matter of wartime expediency?
I would recommend a Displacement Lubricator, although wet steam at 30psi would also lubricate the cylinders. But as you say, Wartime use is probably the reason they didn't fit a lubricator. People trying to buy Steam Cylinder Oil in occupied France would be a dead giveaway }:-)))
After a few different attempts to get the lubricator to take more than just a few drops, I found that it needed to angled slightly down to get condensed water to run down to it and displace the oil. Is the set up that critical?
A good topic to cover, thanks
I can't see how that makes a difference, but as long as it works I suppose . . .
Perhaps it is very small and he had problems with surface tension? (I don't know, but that's my theory)
I notice on all of these including the glass one that it's tee'd into the steam line with only one pipe going into the actual body of the lubricator, but the one I have on my engine has the steam line going through the body and out the other side. It still seems to work fine and plenty of the oil is displaced by water, is that uncommon?
Some are single ended and fitted with a regulator and other are the inline type. Both ways work fine . . .
Novice here... Does that mean that oil goes out into the steam pipes, using the same single passage as the steam that goes into the oiler? I bought one from Microcosm, just out of curiosity. And now I am quite confused about it, since the passage seems very narrow.
Also, there is something rattling inside, on the lower section, where the drainage needle is. Can't see what it is...
Perhaps a dumb question, but is there a particular reason the design includes a pretty small volume ? Clearly convenient where size is an issue,but something with more storage volume would mean less fiddling with a pretty messy product. Or is it about sized for a good run,so cleaning up after is easier ?
For someone like me,good at forgetting stuff,a glass barrel would be my first choice. Visual cues. The consequences of insufficient lubrication kind of make me cringe.
Having lots of spare storage volume would be my first choice. I suppose I am missing something here.
It's a matter of scale - model Displacement Lubricators are quite over scale to start with relative to the size of the steam engine, so a bigger one would look even more unsightly as does the glass "see through" type in my opinion. A normal sized lubricator like the Stuart type usually holds enough oil for quite a long run.
I think on GW locos there were sight glasses which crew found very assuring. That's about all I know about the topic!