Orientalism and power: When will we stop stereotyping people? | A-Z of ISMs Episode 15 - BBC Ideas
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Orientalism is a term that was coined by the late academic Edward Said. What does Orientalism mean? Evelyn Alsultany breaks it down.
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#Orientalism #power #EdwardSaid
some comments are saying that all races and countries have their own stereotypes of the West. You have not understood Orientalism. This isn't just about stereotypes as the video said. Orientalism was created by the West, not by miseducation or ignorance but by the intention of the people in power to justify imperial and post-colonial ideas and thoughts. By Trump saying that 'I think Islam hates us', he is alienating peoples religion from the US and West entirely, creating stereotypes in the process. Of course the East have their stereotypes, but because of institutionalised racism and orientalism, these cause no harm to the west because they have already deemed themselves superior for centuries.
Then read the Quran and live with Muslim Arabs for years and you will understand their aim. I have a lot of muslim friends, aquitances but l tell them that they will never reach their goal till there are people like me.
So it is ok that the East does it, but not ok that the West does it because of muh iMpErIaLiSm.
@@CedricThePlaystation willfully misunderstanding someone’s argument does not, in fact, make you smarter. But no surprise that a westerner would be resistant to examining their colonial legacy, lmao
@@lynxaway that is exactly what they said
No, Orientalism was created by Said and is not a real thing. You are a small brain thinking small thoughts.
Personally speaking, I think Hollywood also partially have to be blamed for this. It just my opinion tho.
Definitely, Hollywood had hugely contributed in disseminating and perpetuating these wrong ideas or misperceptions of the orient throughout the years
A HUGE PART!
partially? you kidding me?
Partially? No, it is mostly
@@__Man__ no not mostly. Can't be mostly because movies are still a relatively new form of expression and mass information
"Orientalism” is a way of seeing that imagines, emphasizes, exaggerates and distorts differences of Arab peoples and cultures as compared to that of Europe and the U.S. It often involves seeing Arab culture as exotic, backward, uncivilized, and at times dangerous. Edward W. Said, in his groundbreaking book, Orientalism, defined it as the acceptance in the West of “the basic distinction between East and West as the starting point for elaborate theories, epics, novels, social descriptions, and political accounts concerning the Orient, its people, customs, ‘mind,’ destiny and so on.”
Can u explain orientalism more to me please
@@Nana-eq5bq Orientalism is a work of intellectual history, based on readings of an enormous range of literary and scholarly texts. But, in essence, its thesis can be distilled to the proposition that Orientalism is, in Said’s words, “a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction between ‘the Orient‘ and (most of the time) ‘the Occident.’” He did not say that Orientalist depictions of the West’s Other were merely fictions. If they were, they would be much easier to deconstruct and dislodge. Quite the reverse, classical Orientalism drew upon elements of positive knowledge and scholarship, work that was often admiring of-at times, even besotted with-its object. The problem with Orientalism was not that it was false in some crudely empirical sense, rather that it was part of a discursive system of “power-knowledge,” a phrase Said borrowed from Foucault. And the aim of Orientalism as a system of representations, sometimes explicit, more often implicit, was to produce an Other, the better to secure the stability and supremacy of the Western self.
@Danny M westerns pays way more attention to these stereotypes
And the dangerous thing is that they have used and still are using these stereotypes to justify colonisation and war against others
Danny M yes it is something unique to whites. read Said’s book before thinking you can just pull the first equivocating power-ignorant idea out of your ass and think you solved white supremacy.
@@QueerPolitics blame whitey for everything. White man did what any other culture would have done if they had the technological superiority. I don't like colonialism or the past but stop putting blame and accept that humanity is corrupted
finally someone explained it to me simply, thank you very much for being here.
So, Orientalism is just a prettier word for Racism, Racial Bias, Prejudice, Stereotyping, and Discrimination....
The nature of "them"
no, it is just western propaganda in western countries. and this is totally fine... because de east does the same against us
No, it is much more than that, it is also a political tactic utilized to exploit countries labeled as oriental, the british used it to get to india, french also to get to south and north africa, it is also used to create and inbed conflicts within those areas in between their people, America did and obviously still using this when they invaded Iraq, to implement Israel into the middle east........ exploit natural ressources in other countries, strip it's people from the most basic rights, only to come around film a documentary about a country and people whose misery they are responsible for and demonize them, dehumanize them, make them unrelatable and opposite to people in the west..............
I remember working with different American companies. In some of the companies I worked with, there was a dynamic of well, let's just say just because we are the brown people when we assert our points our higher ups shoot us down and reduce it to insubordination. The last company I worked with was a multinational but I got assigned to an American account. The higher ups I had were more egalitarian and treated us like everyone even if we were not American. They listened to us, engaged in deep professional conversation. They saw us as real colleagues and not for the lack of a term "professional slaves". That for me was the birth of my crusade against orientalism in my life LOL.
I remember going on vacation IN MY OWN COUNTRY and some Czech guy wanted me to give up my seat and he was in this condescending tone. I told him no. You are in my hood you gonna play by our rules when you expect us to do in yours.
솔직히 이 모든 것의 근원에 할리우드가 있다. 서양의 미디어 독점, 미묘한 백인우월적 묘사. brain-washed되는 건 한순간.
You're absolutely correct
Your words are on spot. I have the same thoughts on my mind but i don't know how to put them into words. But you managed to explain beautifully. I wish i was like that.
@@youknow8653 I think what he means is beyond what we really expect to reply to him. All I have to say is thanks for sharing
criticize Orientalism (rightly), but use the worst map projection in geography
0:29 Is that the rising sun flag? Wow I can't believe it..that is a war criminal flag of the Imperial Japan like the Nazi flag. :(
헐 저거 진짜 욱일기 같네여
Not really, anyway even ‘nazi‘ symbol can be found on temples. They just adapted that, it has different meaning in asia.
@@abcddef2112No they are definitely different. Nazi symbol and temple’s symbol have different directions. The Japanese don't use similar patterns, but the Rising Sun flag itself. As a war criminal state, this is an act of being proud of, not reflecting.
as I said adapted it to different meaning. The nazi symbol are direct descendant of the original symbol. They just used it to meant something else. The rising sun was used far longer before fascist period. It seems some country worldview are so focused on ww2, dont expect other countries to have that obsession too. As if there are no currently war criminal country waving their symbol proudly.
wish this would've also expound a bit more on east asians discrimination, somewhat different from middle eastern discrimination (ignored and viewed as weak rather than dangerous)
In some ways they do see East Asians as dangerous or a threat to the west, like how they speak of North Koreans and Chinese people. And in some ways, they view Middle Easterns as weak, particularly Middle Eastern women. They see Middle Eastern women as hopeless.
@@lavenderdemons I’ve never seen any kind of orientalism or condescension towards North Koreans, only that they are suffering under a dystopian like government/lack certain rights etc. basically feeling sorry for them. Shouldn’t their suffering be known? But then again.. it’s not like the west care enough about it unlike the Middle East. And also then again you could say the say the same ‘shouldn’t their suffering be known’ for all the recent orientalist news stories surrounding the Middle East.. The way they talk about the North Korean government however could be considered orientalism… but it is true no? It’s the fact the west love to spread news around corrupt foreign governments more than the corruption of their own. Hmm but isn’t that the same with every government? I guess the west is just considered the ‘main world’ or something. it’s all very strange
@hana-ov1ju East Asian women are still viewed under the lense of Orientalism. We are exoticised & fetishised by the West. We're viewer as exotic & helpless, needing to protected & subjugated.
Its more an objectification of "the different".
It seems like the US entertainment industry such as Marvel continouing doing the same thing over and over again with the Ms Marvel project. Don't know why they obliged themselves to include the Muslim superhero to fit their own narative in the light that even far exceeded their own usual American steorotype, when majority of the community they represent disagree and in fact they refuses to be included in any movies Marvel made. The fact that they included things that surpasses what the average Americans know about, and even in worse way possible that it already was, it really tell me something. Can Hollywood just leave them alone.
I don't know if "Westernism" is a thing, but I'd love to see a video of how people in Asia view us Europeans. It'd be nice to get their perspective.
Hi @Tom, thanks for your comment. That is a really interesting idea.
The term is "Occidentalism" and from what I've witnessed, they stereotype and dehumanize us just as much. Especially Western women.
Thanks Meredith. BBC Ideas please add it to your list and tell Somethin' Else to get animating. 🙂👍
where i am in south east asia... VERY POSTIVELY
There's no such thing as “Westernism”. We have the Post-colionial Theory where we talk about how the colonizers affected the Global South or the “East”. We view the West and everything as Westerncentric, especially, Eurocentric. Also, we criticize the Western standards on how the Global South should be after the colonial period, that states should be secularized to be modernized.
stereotyping, like hate only shrinks your brain.
English isn't your first language huh..
@Eyema Khum-Gussler they might as well be
@@drummerkai9804 stfu English isn’t the only language
by studying at university, i had to learn about orientalism, it is just too hard for me to understand. is it same as racism?
Edward Said did not invent the word Orientalism with due respect for all that he did; it goes way back to when Arabs Were in Spain and Europeans came to study the Arabic language and culture. There are many examples of the orientalist like the French monk Gerbert, who later became Pope of the Church of Rome in 999 AD, Peter the Venerable 1092 - 1156 AD, and Gerardo da Cremona 1114 - 1187 AD, and after these monks returned to their country, they spread The culture of the Arabs and the writings of their most famous scholars, then institutes dealing with Arabic studies were established; Examples: the "Arab Padua" school and Western monasteries and schools began to teach Arab works translated into Latin, and Western universities continued to rely on Arab books and considered them the original references for study for nearly six centuries.
He's not credited for coining the term but rather establishing the study.
Thank you for an awesome vid BBC!
the Orientalism if it mean مستشرقين in arabic we define it as just the study of the east culture without racism and i read some book from a orent writers some was nice and some other were so racism but as i think no one did Transfer or understand the arab civilization as it should.
and we as arab didn't understand west culture as it should. and the best example is The Clash of Civilizations and it short look.
sorry about my bad language
At least white westerners wrote more then 60.000 books only till the late 1700 till the 1850
@@odisseasparaiba7503 It’s not about the quantity but the quality. If 99% of those books are sh*tty then I don’t really see the point. And if 3/4 of those are to assert that the west is superior to the east then it’s even more stupid than it already is.
@@Farouk04839 WE DON'T ASSERT, WE ARE SUPERIOR. FACT
humans should be tribalists, each one stays in yout territory. so no confusion
0:35 The sun and lines in this background look like Japanese Rising Sun Flag. Asian people think of Rising Sun Flag as the Hagen Kreuz of German imperialism. Because during the imperialist era, Japan invaded and looted many countries with that flag. Therefore, I would like you to modify this background.
@@moonwalkerboy162 Actually it is "Hakenkreuz" ;)
Some people seem to think that, sure, these are ignorant stereotypes, but no real harm is done. If anything they conjure romantic, enticing, positive impressions of "the orient", and indeed produce beautiful cultural artifacts, even if they are fantastical. All true. But it's also true that by doing so we are saying that the authentic, lived experiences of those people doesn't matter, at least not to the same degree as those of Occidental (Western) people. Racism is sometimes about slavery, genocide, and legal rights. But sometimes it's just a story of dignity being trampled.
I don't think there is anything wrong with Europeans, the British, and Americans designating, say, Turkey as the near east, Iraq as the middle east, and China as the far east. It's understood that this is merely a convenience, and is from a western perspective.
If someone from China decides that Estonia is the near west, the UK is the middle west, and the U.S. is the far west, I wouldn't be upset about it.
It's no worse than designating other regions, such as "Europe" or "Tamil Nadu," or any other area.
That thumbnail... as a Korean, I feel this video saying Orientalism, is making a terrible mistake that is one of the exemplary Orientalism..
You BBC is terrible uncivilized and uneducated media.
BBC is doing the adjact same thing. LOL.
I hope I live to see you lot at the beeb learn to swim or sink in the free market.
Said didn't coin the term orientalism he just reinvented it. The word had a broader meaning
The word the "Orient," the place where the sun rises" itself is a beautiful sounding, poetic word, more to my ear than the "Occident." It is poetry, as in the name of the novel and railroad, The Orient Express. And it is too bad it has been thrown out of the English vocabulary, because it used to include what was laudatory about Asian cultures as well. There have been countless books written by "westerners" about "eastern" cultures that are complementary and respectful, seeing other religions, philosophy and art and people not through a superior lens but at least as equals and often having much to teach the "West" about these subjects in order to improve their own lives, and they do, yes, treat others as human beings with a wide spectrum of qualities, just as they do their own peoples. I feel Said's book, which I read, throws out the baby with the bathwater, and ignores genuine and sincere efforts of cultural appreciation. Everybody on Earth looks at everything from a personal lens, and each is different, covering the whole rainbow of views. One person likes poetry, the other politics, another maternity, and another, yes, the exotic, whether it be in one's own country or another's. What do we call this but a diversity of viewpoints? No one is free of some subjectivity or prejudice that governs their outlook, whether it be in their own country or in another's. Many call "journalistic" or "scholarly" attempts to share understanding as "Asian Studies." Anybody have a better idea?
Thanks
Life is so short, yet full of hatred, war, pain, greed
Ironic that this is on the BBC.
I saw something that said it was Orientalism if I were to create a character that was from Islamic background and allow them to be more on the evil side. I wondering if that is orentalism?
Yes if he is the only evil character in the story
At the very least Orientalism produced some superb paintings..
Did you read all 60.000 books wrote by the orientalists between the end of the 1700 till the 1850 ? Many have been objective in their reports and thanks to them we can protect ourself from the evil islamism. Academic works are not a joke, although sometime they have visited the Middle East having already some formulated preconceptions about those populations and with a Aurea of superiority, especially English writers.
@Ashura read Orientalism of Edward Said first. It's not a joke.
Yeah like those oversexualizing women ...
@@odisseasparaiba7503 westerner can believe what they want to. But the lroblem is that they CONTROL INGORMATION SOURCE.
Imagine Balkans, the seismic area where Orient and Occident clashes... so much blood ,so much hate... The Middle east is the edgepoint slanting towards the East... and Turkey in the very middle-- it's so sad what West is doing to them. Gosh, save us
Onanisn I dare you illustrate THAT!
I wonder how many people noticed
that's useful i was wondering if you would call the act of invading iraq orientalist and it seems you would.
I just want to say *UGH*
Truth hurts.
I have Corious mind to learn Orientialsm deeply
There is a lack of awareness that the terms "The West" and "The East" and all such related terms are harmful.
I didn't realize until just recently when it was pointed out to me. I think some people use these terms sometimes to refer to geographic regions without realizing that these terms are created by evil bigots. Spread the word y'all!
Very important video
Orientalism is an academic niche artistic style.
stripers wearing hijab,men on camels ,desert,barbaric folks,old houses,dirty clothes,..this is orientalism my friend and offensive stereotyping of the middle eastern or the"orient people"
very nice :)
Cultural phase, agreed, but then when 'your boots stand astride the world' and 'nothing can withstand you', perhaps the cultural arrogance was inevitable. I do not know anyone, I'm a Brit', that would subscribe to this phenomenon today. As a counter, we were 'uncivilised barbarians' in return, maybe still are, other than all the people wanting to migrate here.
Thank you for the video!! Sr Eduard Said a magnific Man.
Can anyone pl elaborate what black orientalism really is
My assumption is its related to the nation of Islam, its a weird fake version of islam created by black supremacists in the US, some sort of weird cult. They believe that they are the true jews, God's choosen people and that white people were created by the devil to hurt black people. Its absolutely moronic.
I have a question: Having watched and enjoyed the _Dr Fu Manchu movies, _ in particular the impressive way the inscrutable character's creepy and treacherous nature was put across, have I now earned the right to call myself an Orientalist? I also burn joss sticks and play Eastern flute music when I make chop suey at home. I mean, am I now a true, legitimate and annoying Orientalist?
بالناقص منهم - مقصوووودة
Stereotypes? Really? The BBC has long suffered from something like an adolescent crush on Michel Foucault and many of his disciples, such as Edward Said. The fact remains that an ostensibly fictional figure situation Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, is very much with us today as it was medieval times. Since Ali Baba's death by deconstruction, it is merely in a few superficial particulars that his type has changed. Today the self-same phenomenon happens to be manifesting in the personage of one Yahya Sinwar, who reigns, along with his Forty Thousand Murderers, Rapists, Beheaders and Kidnappers, over his fly-blown fiefdom with, yes, oriental cruelty. Don't take my word for it, ask the human shields that Yahya Sinwar and his band are feeding to the monster they raised from 7 October 2023 (which might well have been the year 923 in its essentials ).
i live in pakistan i was so into religion before but tbh islam is the worst thing sometimes
My parents are Nepali who immigrated to America. This is useless. First of all, I’m American now, not Nepali. Obviously I got my cultural background, but I live in America and have almost all my life. My children will be American. If you truly want to learn about another culture, read their historical and scriptural texts. That’s the best way.
You can try to be as American as possible, but there will be Americans who will never see you as American but a perpetual foreigner. Don’t lie to yourself. Simply accept it.
@@xxmemestar69xx82 that is not the majority of Americans. I grew up with friends whose parents were immigrants from Vietnam, Korea, Africa, Peru, and many other countries, I never saw them as any different than me and other white people. 99% of Americans will not treat you as a foreigner if you do not speak with a strong accent.
@@stuart4341maybe you’re right
Orientalism is something good or bad?
Bad!! Its basically an institution of European colonialists going to foreign lands that they were conquering like in the middle east or India and coming back with extremely racist mystical-magical depictions of the people that that aren't even vaguely rooted in reality and then teaching them to their whole population back home. The whole practice is rooted in racism and supremacy.
Bad
Except for the fact that West and East are very visibly separated by cultural differences. In the West the individual is the agent of society that shapes it, and the culture through language, norms, hierarchies, etc. shape it.
While in the East the collective community takes precedence over the individual with the culture reinforcing this point again through the very language, societal norms, political culture, etc.
If you want any further proof of Andrew Breitbart’s assertion that politics is downstream of culture, ask yourself why most Eastern states are autocratic or have a culture of sycophantic deference and why most Western countries are democratic?
@@user-zk5lj5uu1u other than the fact that absolutism originates in the East? Such a political system can only come about due to the submissive consent of the governed. Religions that would espouse some kind of divine law being sacred, thus creating a culture of ritualism also originated in the East. All the Abrahamic religions came from the East
@@user-zk5lj5uu1u says the one who backs a submissive ideology. Must be a Democrat since you like people who can’t think for themselves
You're doing exactly what the video is referring to, cant you see the irony?
Many girls I know are veiled without their decision.
And many girl are force to accept nudism as an art so just look both side before judgment covering body is not a crime and not harming at all what kind of harm do you find in covering bodies no direct contact of viruses, infections, evil eyes,dirt,UV Ray's, pollution what kind of harm do u find tell me
@@sayyedafarheenchishty6514 not harmful unless the reason you have to cover yourself up is because the men around you cannot handle seeing a woman's body without thinking of her as a lesser human. this isn't just a "one culture" issue though.
@@alwdance who said that men around her cannot handle seeing her uncovered?!! It's a religious belief, as a woman has the right to walk without clothes or to have tattoos on her body or even shave her hear she has the right to put the hijab on, u Don't know many things about islam and all u know is what your media and your government institutions wanted u to know, it's what we call orientalism : u think u really know us and u think that u are superior and more civilized and that's all are the results of colonisation.
@@sayyedafarheenchishty6514 how often is someone forced to accept nudism? how common of a problem is that?
France is the answer and so is America and the rest of the Europe😂😂😂 nude is the new cool new for you all keep it in your culture don't shove it on other nations@@stuart4341
I completely disagree when the video states that Orientalism is also based on knowledge, it is not, it is based on stereotypes and a distorted view of different cultures. Not because Trump said that Muslims hate his country this statement becomes valid o even true!!!!!
Oh yeh not because someone said he hates america all Muslims are the same 😀the rules are the same for every one
From the river to the sea Palestine will be free!
I could care less what people call me but I don’t see “oriental” as stereotyping it’s location in this case eastern, I would think that’s a respectful connotation. But if it’s considered offensive I wouldn’t use it it’s not my decision to make.
When the stereotypes are incorrect, which the currently are not.
wow.. An occidentalist mind explains orientalism. NOICE
Stop teaching our children to hate themselves
Truth hurts doesn't it
Its haram
Not all eastern people are muslim. Are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai are muslim?
@@fadli_1577 yes
@@fadli_1577 Islam is a religion, you can be from any country and still be Muslim.
So yes, there’s probably Chinese, Thai,etc Muslim people.
In fact, look up the Uyghurs; china’s oppressed Muslim population.
As if other cultures don't have their own stereotypes of Europeans.
Look at me, I'm a good honking: standing with the beige brigade, who dislike like me, over the people I'm most genetically and culturally similar to; because i forgot my identity.
Said’s Orientalism is another in a long line of theories of history and culture forced into the Marxist frame of power struggles between oppressed and oppressor. What a tired old trope this is.
Peoples, nations, and cultures are far more complex than Said’s cherry-picked analysis suggests.
Historically, Europeans have been mean to non-Europeans. Americans have been mean to non-Americans (including Europeans). British have been mean to French. Italians have been mean to Egyptians. Saudis have been mean to Iraqis. Pakistanis have been mean to Indians. Chinese have been mean to Taiwanese. And so on, and so on.
Yawn.
What Said describes as “Orientalism” is just a specific form of “Otherism” - which in turn, is just an extension of “Tribalism” going back possibly hundreds of thousands of years.
These are not Western “social constructs” or expressions of White European dominance hierarchies. They are fundamentally about human nature.
Can they be overcome - yes. And they should be.
But we won’t get anywhere by ascribing basic universal human failings (prejudices, suspicions, and stereotyping) To some kind of artificial power play invented by White people.
Everyone plays the game, and instead of pointing fingers, we need to work together to end it.
So you bought some likes?
That's cute.
The guy who helped pave the way for post modern theory and the SJW movement. And then the socialist Marxist movements.
GOD SAVE WESTERN CIVILIZATION, THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH
*proceeds to m4sturb4te over the map of roman empire*
@@youknow8653 ok
حقراء
Edward Said was lucky and died before having seen Deash (iss) and Arab spring otherwise probably would take his book out of all libraries.