Quad Cortex vs Helix - Which has MORE accurate AMP MODELING?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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I've heard folks having issues with both the Helix and Quad Cortex amp models, in particular folks seem to say that the Captures in the Quad Cortex are more accurate, or other folks say that the Helix doesn't sound or feel quite as close. In this video I dialled in both the QC and the Helix alongside my real Mesa Boogie Lonestar drive channel to see how close I could get them. How do you think they sound?
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I love that it's all about what works best for the player vs. what sounds best now. I had a Helix, thought I saw greener grass and bought a FM3, sold the Helix. Ended up really disliking the workflow of the fractal, sold it and now I;m back tot he Helix floor and very happy. There are no losers anymore! All guitar players win.
Same exact boat. Helix work flow is unmatched right now.
They all sounded good and very similar. The main takeaway for me is that I couldn't consistently identify which was the real Amp and which was the Modeler. But, I'm sure my back could tell 100% of the time.
They aren't similar at all, you're listening to the wrong things. Layman ears will listen to the fundamental notes and low-mid EQ and conclude they sound similar, but if you listen to the extended section at the beginning of the video where he repeatedly A/B compares the two, even on UA-cam you can hear the enormous unmistakable difference in the high end harmonics. The amp has tons more auditory information up there, and it's complex information as a result of compression and clipping and amp components working together. The model has very unexciting and dead information in that same 4k+ space.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator You're wrong. I don't have laymen's ears, and have listened to many, many Modelers in many blind tests. The differences are often small, inconsequential, or imaginary, as the results of such comparisons often testify. As time goes on, new software and technology makes those differences even smaller.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator Lmao you are absolutely full of shit and have 100% convinced yourself of this. I've worked in audio engineering for years. Digital modeling is just about perfect now.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator You’re just blinded by your own opinion. Which is not superior than anyone else’s by a long shot buddy lol. It’s just Placeebo 🤷🏽♂️
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator I think you are just trolling here. A spent years composing, mixing and mastering with different amps/ modelers with professional gear. The extracts you are talking about are undistinguishable, or just barely at very high volume with flat studio headphones, which I own.
Interesting thing. When I got my Helix, I brought it into the room filled with many of the amps that were modeled in the Helix. But, I never one time tried to get the Helix to imitate the sound from the other amps. Didn't care if it could or not. The only thing I was interested in was could I possibly use the Helix to clear out that room and bank that money. Well, the bank account is fat and the Helix is still here. Now I just buy guitars. Trick is not to try and make your new things sound like your old things. Use your new things to make new things.
Was there any gear you just couldn't say good bye to?
@@Coastal-Sasquatch I did not sell any of my guitars. Did not sell the original SD-1. If I had had a Miku I would not have sold it. All amps and cabs are gone. Seldom ever even think about them. Only when I see them on UA-cam or for sale somewhere. Then my back and knees remind me of all the years lugging them around and I start thinking about how nice it is now. Nothing beats a Helix and a fat bank account.
I love this comment
@@bryantwalley great insight! Thanks mate, helped my pull the trigger
I love this comment so much
The beauty of moving to modellers is we don’t get all the amp noise, as well as being able to pop them into a backpack. Very happy with my Quad Cortex. Thanks for your awesome work and playing John.
And just being able to change your entire setup at the click of a button.
One thing I have always wondered, is if real amps sounded like the modelers, and the modelers sounded like real amps, would people still complain how the modelers don't sound like real amps, therefore, not as good. I'm in the camp of, if it sounds good, why complain. Yeah, there can be somewhat of a feel difference, but doesn't really bother me. I'm a Helix user, and happy with the sound, feel, and dynamics of it. Works for me.
The question in my mind is if there is a “ feel” difference? The amp and modeler both sound great. I have the stomp and found it took forever to find an amp and a way to dial it in that made It feel and sound proper now I find it hard to go back to a amp setup because you get so much more with the stomp, also thank you, you helped me get there, you make it look so easy.
With quad cortex, it captures a specific sound amazingly. But if you want to change something, it’s best to do the capture again. With helix, it does the sounds incredibly well, especially after the latest update. I just want the quad cortex cos of the size.
Yes! 100% agreed with your comment! I totally love the Helix but it’s big and heavy
I have HX stomp as well as FM3. For me they sound similar, but the FM3 ‘feels’ better to me. That said, I find myself using the Line 6 more often as it’s easier to use IMO. Both are great units.
It's something I've been noticing lately, a lot of gear is sounding great, even the budget stuff sounds at the very least usable. I agree with the thought that we trully are in the golden age of guitar gear. You can get good, great or even amazing tones with a lot of different gear, videos like this just highlight how crazy good stuff is sounding, we are at the point that we have to really split hairs to get the "best" gear
You can get an HX stomp and play ANY style of music, incredible time to be alive!
I agree, I bought the GX100 and it sounds amazing!
This just shows how good your ears are! Really impressed how the Helix still stands its ground after all those years. Great video!
No wrong choices. They both sound good.
I've personally stopped asking myself the question of "does it sound real?" a few years ago and instead ask "does it sound good?" Every flagman modeller can sound very real and very fake since there are so many parameters to manipulate so you can both improve the sound and f*ck it up in so many places :D If it sounds and feels good it is good
One of the pros of the quad cortex, is there isn’t a ton of parameters… I believe he said he’s using an IR for the cab, so load the IR, and really as far as core tone, just subtle eq the amp like you would any amp. It’s intuitive and easy to use. I’ve worked in tech for a little over twenty years, and when I saw the pages and parameters to configure and set up each patch, it was a hard no. I do enough of that at work. The last thing I want, is to come home and do the same thing. With QC using the intuitive touch screen (or desktop app if you want now, I actually prefer using the touchscreen, it’s quicker IMO), you can start from creating a patch/preset and be done and playing in under two minutes. Also a QC can fit in your backpack or the front of a guitar backpack travel case with a pair of headphones. I wouldn’t throw away or sell a Helix to go get a QC… but the helix is old now, light years in terms of tech, which is reflected in the size and weight differences/etc. The helix weighs 14lbs, QC about 4lb. The best analogy I’ve heard regarding comparing the two, is you’re going to buy a MacBook, you can buy a brand new one, or you can get one that’s 6 years old for the same price. They’ll both probably handle what you need today… but which ones going to last longer?
Fantastic content - am I loving your modeling videos. I picked up a QC and love it - I have learned so much for your videos, thanks again.
No one in the crowd is going to know the difference between any of these. Helix is the sexiest and easiest. Hands down winner if you’ve tried them
It's remarkable. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't hear it. Even if there are slight differences, one doesn't sound undeniably better than the other.
I cannot hear these slight differences with my flat studio headphones, but maybe without UA-cam compression I could tell. Maybe.
@@newstuff1107 I can hear a difference in captures on the Quad Cortex. The most dramatic thing besides less hum is a tad more low-mids. I think it does some amps really close and some not quite as close but even those sound good. Just different but similar, if that makes sense. I've been a Helix user as my go-to for a while and I finally was able to acquire the Quad Cortex and I'm in the process of capturing my vintage collection. Everyone around here including me is very impressed so far. I'm about 6 sounds in and have that many more to go. Then I'll do some of the same amps with different drive and eq settings because the QC doesn't really respond to the different dynamics of the signal in regards to volume and how hard you hit the strings quite like the tube amps do. Still great, just a little different. It doesn't break up or compress quite in the same way that say a JMI Vox AC30 does.
@@3mstudiospalmdesertgreat observations I dont think a modeler will ever capture screaming tube amps on the ragged edge how do they model or predict the unpredictable elements ot the epic live shows in history. Is Townsend gonna smash his kemper floor what would Jimis national anthem at woodstock sound like thru a helix...
At this point it's pick the modeler that's got the right size, DSP (if you need it) and budget. They all sound great. Or maybe it's just John's playing that sounds great through anything from a lonestar to a potato ;)
Yeah but i read on fractal forums that helix is a toy man. Why would they lie?!
@@fk6232 you make great points sir!
@@johnkohhh hey. I am equal opportunity! I just have more hours on helix and like to troll the fractal fan bois that swear its miles and miles better 🤣😅
Helix isn't green enough to sound good
@@kyran4238 have you tried custom setting all the FS colors to green?!
Might work @Steve Sterlacci, I feel color-matching is the new tone-matching.
I honestly love the helix. And I’m sure you’re using the stock cabs to match that closely. I will say, the new thing with Tone Matching and tighter EQ frequencies on speaker replication has also made a huge difference to my ears as far as dynamic range, but the stock cabs really are great too. Workflow is super smooth and it’s so easy to adjust on the fly. Pedal edit mode during gigs has saved my back a couple times for sure
I’ve always used clean’ish or mid-gain amps, which sound ‘good enough’ on the Helix in general. I’ve only recently started using higher gain amp tones (thanks to Mr. Cordy’s terrific tonescapes). I found this video incredibly helpful as a comparison.
Thanks again, JNC!
If anything, the Quad sounds like it has just a hair more presence. Which is great! I love presence! And if you dialed that back just a teeny bit, they’d be identical. The Helix sounded great too. As countless others have mentioned, we live in a spectacular time for guitar modeling. They have all brought it to such a high level. Axe FX, Quad Cortex, Helix. They all sound great. And anybody could get amazing tones from any of them!
Totally agree with you mate was thinking the exact same thing! 👌
glad to see the og tele with the strat middle back!
Tone is in the fingers! Honestly I think the only thing modern modelers can't recreate is playing at real volume and the interaction between guitar and speaker.
all sounding great with those incredible chops stealing the show!
Wow the Quad Cortex MOPPED THE FLOOR with the Helix!! Just kidding, I couldn't tell a difference 😂 I bought the QC tho and was hoping it would be 19 levels up from Helix lol. But they're all good
Your not allowed to be this honest and unbiased in the comment section
Did u have a helix before?. I do and I'm tempted to get a qc purely based on size but I'm not sure if it's worth the agg
@@paulmyfinger I have HX stomp and HX effects. I do like QC more except for effects. I don't think you will regret it, actually the dynamic responsiveness in QC makes it more enjoyable to play for me even if the tone with Helix is a draw
Not every player is the same nor is the equipment they dial in to taste. I have tried several units personally and ended up with a Moorer GE300. WHo would have ever thought? But that thing for me is a killer and I get so many compliments on my tone. I attribute it to the tube profiles with in the unit that I mix with the tube profiles on the Amped3 I use as power.
My main takeaway is - I have a lot of practicing to do!
Well in this test both sound so close to the amp there is really no matter which one you use 😎
I wished for months that you would do a series actually on the best quad cortex sounds and try to match it on the helix/hx stomp (with whatever added effects it may take). Thank you! Edit: may I add that you leave the real amps aside, just matching the best quad cortex models with the helix HX stomp.
The amp has more "character" It sounds "more live". Anyway in my opinion Helix Is more accurate than Cortex but It seems a Little more "dead" than amp. Amp Is gritty! Quad cortex Is not bad but seems like "plastic".
That sounds so close! Would you be so kind to add patch to your drive please Sir? And what ir are you using? 🙏🏻👍🏼
Quad cortex had a double tracked or chorusy element to the sound compared to the amp. It's what I thought the new cabs in the helix metal plugins had over the helix floor sound. Not saying better or worse or accurate but that's how I tell them apart in this vid. Didn't notice this in the hx stomp vs amp in this vid but the hx stomp seemed brighter. They all sounded great.
The Helix could've done with a smidge of bottom end roll off, not very much, but yes very close, in a mix i would doubt you could tell between the 2..:)..Great vid.
We have a bunch of lonestar specials on the ship. They’re combo amps with 1 12”. They have el 84 tubes instead of the usual 6L6’s. I absolutely love them!
We’ll never really hear especially thru phone , but playing them the quad feels for amp like for sure
It’s simple. I see a JNC video, I like. I hear the 1975 and I comment
John: I think you dial the Helix in the best of any I've heard so far, and the playing is killer.
I can’t hear any difference, but not surprising given the limitations of You Tube. However, this video did remind me of why I hate the sound of Mesa amplifiers. 🤮
What? How? They are gorgeous!
If you havent seen this go watch it, it may change your mind.
ua-cam.com/video/i0p-ks5xlnY/v-deo.html
I see AH /J Rokett pedal at the background 😍
Good eyes!!!!
I don’t see the point in caring about accuracy. Maybe I can see it if you’re used to that specific amp and don’t want to change anything about your sound as you switch to modeling. But otherwise just judge the modeler as its own thing. A lot of those differences may even be improvements.
fantastic work in helping folks. I found some great tones and tricks. Quick question - what is the output level you keep on QC and what is the boost level (db) you generally recommend. Do you also keep the input level at 0 (default) or tweak for your guitars Thanks.
Jeez, they’re all close enough for rock n roll.
I agree you can get the overall tone, sound, eq pretty close enough but my complain about Digi is that the low freq is one that most of not all fail to match. It’s something about the sound and punch and digi still can’t do it close enough to me. Now, the only unit that I have found to get pretty close with low freq it’s UAFX.
Agreed 🤟
Need a transcription of whatever that insane playing was at the beginning…
I have a QC game changer for me as you can download and modify with just the unit and a I pad ,
I don’t think the modeling accuracy is really all that important, as long as the amps sound GOOD.
No discernible differences to my ear. I’d like to know how you are hearing this: through studio monitors, or your Henriksen Bud?
They both sound great to me. Are those pickups stock? I have a tele that I'm considering changing p.u.
Helix and amp are about 99.9% the same, some small differences in the top end. Don't think I could tell the QC and amp apart.
Close enough to that in a mix context you wouldn’t be able to tell. Maybe the feel would be the only give away.
Even outside the mix, I guess no one could tell consistently
@@newstuff1107 agreed. Some will say they can but if they weren’t told which was which….
Thanks for the effort you put into these vids. They all sound great. The QC is like 99.9% of the amp, and I couldn’t tell you which one is “better” it’s so close at this point, who’s to say the modeler doesn’t sound “better” than the actual amp. The Helix doesn’t sound quite as good to me, but man was that an intuitive unit to use when I had it. There are things I like about it’s UI and features over the QC still. Honestly, the addition of global EQ on the QC was probably the biggest one for me. I’m really happy with the QC both into the front of my Badcat as pedals only, and into the effects loop, using just the Badcat’s power section. Let’s be real, though… you could probably run an iPhone recording of two cats f*cking through a badcat and it would sound pretty decent. No pun intended 😂
What is the signal chain for the amp? Is that thorough a load box of som we sort? If so... what?
All sound great what are you playing into ?
I'm listening on KRK Rokit 5s and there is legit zero difference between the two
its always that 15 percent that 3d bloom that people chase, same with mics recording gear etc, playing writing mixing better songs and ideas is more important as time goes by, youtube dosent do any comparisons any favours for critical listening mind you
Nothing in that with regards to amp vs Helix vs QC. I've never liked Mesa Boogie amps and your favourite here did nothing to convince me otherwise so I wasn't enjoying the tones but the test was could you tell them apart and I agree, you'd be hard pressed.
You dont like a lonestar? 😂 Are you even a human?....
Me impresiona lo cerca que suena el Helix del amp real.
Highly saturated tones might cover up some of the subtle differences between the amp and the modelers. Try the same experiment with cleaner, edge of breakup tones and see if the tone and feel compare.
Soundwise booth are realy Close, i just can notify a slight difference in the bass where the real amp has a kind of Top End, that the Helix doesnt have (its a lil bit muffled) But realy only noticeable when you play alone and not in a Band contex. All in all a realy great Job that you get the sound sooooooo close.
Is there a preset in the folder for this one?
ooho caroline!
There isn't enough off a difference between the two to make me want to spend nearly $800 bucks more for the quad cortex. I have an Helix LT. =)
The Quad Cortex sounded better than the Helix on the Hi gain settings with the "Timmy" ! Would've like to hear some low and medium gain settings !
3:28
It would be nice you actually showing us between both pedals rather than just playing. I don't even know which pedal is which.
All I can tell is that the Helix sounds a bit “fuzzier” than the real amp and the quadcortex sounds a tiny bit brighter than the amp. Both things can probably be corrected easily.. don’t know. Never had a modeler but will absolutely made the change as soon as I can. Just so much more convenient
Also… great playing
I don't really like Helix.
I don't like Helix because the basic sound is more in the midrange.
But that's why it has a nice gutsy sound when distorted like in the video.
In other words, it's a sound for distorted electric guitars.
However, it sounds somewhat artificial and not exactly like accurate amp modeling, I guess.
The QuadCortex has more range.
Its too easy I dont understand how you can hear it they sound exactly the same im sure as close as if you were compairing 2 of the same amps together
I can’t tell any difference.. both modelers sound like the amp.
Why does it cost so much more than a helix. I really want one. But it is a want, not a need. Is it justified?
It has a large touch screen, is newer and is smaller. Those seems like the pluses to me, from what I can see. I don’t have any real experience with the QC but I can say I absolutely love the helix UX and work flow. Don’t know if you have the helix or not, but it is a very solid unit.
I had both before and thought the QC was better in every way. The QC felt much better under the fingers. I never liked the Helix to be honest but a lot of people swear by it.
What do you have now?
I just bought another QC and replaced my FM9. My first QC lacked a lot of amps/fx , but now they seem to be catching up with the 3.0 update.
Apart from tones QC's feel is superior and more dynamic compared to helix.
what specifically do you mean by feel?... I don't really get what is meant by this
@@johnconroy9989 So I have used countless modeler and plug in and when I plug them to My headrush 112 PA speaker I can feel vast difference in the room. Like when I pick , the sound that comes has some depth. I don't think it can be perceived after the tone is recorded but when I play the guitar there is significant difference to me. I have never really played tube amp much and the feel is better than axe fx 2 and helix and headrush and I have tried them all. It might be subjective but this my honest experience.
If the quad cortex is more dynamic, I cannot hear it with such an high gain tone.
@@newstuff1107 I don't think u can hear it after its recorded. Coz like I said it's the feel and not the tone itself. Like I hear more difference with PA speaker rather than the small home studio monitors to really feel the difference. I don't indorse or a fan boy of any company. I was actually waiting to buy Fm9 since I was upgrading from axe fx 2. But due to stock issue and cost I got the QC and I really like it. I will hopefully get to try fm9 or axe fx 3 later in the future. I am excited yo try to Cygnus Amp modeling but from what I hear , QC still feels better than Axe fx 3 so I don't know.. I do miss the effects though...
I recently sold my Tier 1 Quad Cortex because, in my opinion, the amps do not sound, feel, or play (dynamics) any better than the Helix amps, and the effects in it are generally not quite as good.
And that's the thing about subjective opinions - we are all entitled to one and they can be different. ;)
What scale is he playing in the beginning?
99% of the notes are basically from the C Major Scale. As ever, it's what you can do with them that counts........
The chords are G to F, Am to G.
Nooo..long time without an Alien vs predator 14 video was beautiful...i have to skip this turn
Anyone ever dial in a good tone and think…”hmm, I could make that better….” and end up just making it worse???😳
ABSOLUTELY
I couldn't tell any difference
accurate - who cares - does it sound good and feel good to play?
this is unwatchable.
this statement is demonstrably inaccurate. Is that you, Dad?