After 3 rounds of hour-long interviews in the end of May'23 I was offered a position and told that I will receive an email with package details after Memorial day weekend. Two months passed and did not hear anything. Then in August, recruiter called me for the same position if I was still available. Upon asking, the recruiter said company hired someone cheaper in June and by end of July company had wasted time and money, and realized it was not a good fit. Of course, I turned down the offer for a company being so cheap.
@@Ezxziose4 wow, this is crazy that they’ve first ghosted you for cheap labour and then assumed you’d still be waiting in line. So disrespectful twice.
@@DecisionForestthat's awful...I invested in a stock ..that had counterfeit shares....I was guaranteed to make 120 Million..and the sec..shut down trading..and my account is at zero..if your interested ..lookup MMTLP stock.... USA is now hack job... Corruption everywhere.. Prepare for it..sadly
Read the book "The Tyranny of Metrics" and stop worrying about this stupid practices. This company does self harm which unfortunately it will see only in a mid- or long-term.
Here in the United States, the federal reserve bank was basing its interest rates hikes/cuts on how many job postings employers had posted. I wonder how that will work out since 4 out of 10 were ghost jobs.
@@DecisionForest There’s another government program called the Worker Opportunity Tax Credit or WOTC that enables certain categories of workers to be hired by employers. If the employer hires these people, they are eligible for close to a $10,000.00 tax credit. We have an issue with people applying for thousands of jobs and never getting a reply. I have a feeling the WOTC may have something to do with it. Businesses claim they can never find any qualified employees, however, it would be tempting to wait and “harvest” those workers who would make them eligible for the tax credit. The WOTC really only affects low to mid range salaries but it’s another example of something that can be abused. I would be curious to hear your thoughts, to be eligible for WOTC you have to be an ex-felon, person on social assistance or disabled. This program is also being extended to refugees under special circumstances. I’ve always been curious how the government might introduce UBI. With more people dropping out of the workforce and ending up on some sort of social assistance I wonder if this may be the government’s way of slowly introducing UBI. What is your opinion, it may seem completely crazy but there are a lot of things going on in the labor force that don’t quite add up.
The collective wisdom of all these HR/finance people amounts to a toddler's. They're making so many assumptions and the outcome of this will not play out well for these companies. The only logical outcome is that the company will continue to underperform due to the lack of labor and, eventually, they will lose all of their top talent.
@@rumblebeast08 yes, and I think it already started happening. Top management in many companies nowadays is completely lost, and short term cost cutting is the only thing they can do to help their numbers
Our entire HR department is nothing but women. The HR department has the HIGHEST turnover rate and we work for a factory and the company is overwhelming male. We can all do math here….
My last job just lost me. I got sick of management playing games with us. Another coworker quit 2 days after me. And another is going the same way. Management has not hired anyone else in months leaving us short staffed and stressed. So being down to 5 people makes it even harder to do the work. I can only hope even more leave hurting management. Maybe they will finally learn. I was the strongest staff with my skills and they ruined it. I hope they enjoy hiring more subpar techs. And of course having the best skills still meant low pay.
Their is a pattern of C-Suite people outsourcing and moving on to their next director job before the inevitable disaster that most offshore workers are.
This is just a dumb idea all round. They're just reducing the quality of the applicants. The people still applying are people with less experience, confidence, and skill. They're not testing how desperate applicants are, they're just filtering out anybody worth hiring. My point being that this practice will end naturally at some point. Either because they'll realise that they're just getting low quality applicants, or they'll ruin their own company as a result. It's called a job market for a reason, they can lower their salaries all they like, that won't effect other companies. In fact, other companies that are smart would pay attention to stuff like this and advertise similar positions with competitive salaries.
@@highestsettings completely agree with this, many managers forgot to think about the most likely outcome of crippling their businesses in the long term by focusing on quarterly cost reductions. It has to correct itself but it can last for longer than we might like
@@DecisionForest That's because they hired the cheapest possible managers who aren't qualified to think about stuff like ruining the business! Just short term cost reductions.
It’s sad that many companies today chase maximum profits at the expense of any reason, borderline stupidity. Hopefully like you said, karma bites them in the ass financially
@@charliedallachie3539 On the other hand we all want capitalism, right? At least I prefer it over socialism. It's hard to complain why those companies want to max their profits. In general people run businesses to max profits. I would say what's interesting is that those companies chose just that over keeping some balance between profitability and employees wellbeing. Isn't that true that stock listed companies care less as shareholders care only about profit?
Always happens during recession. Hire a young replacement and get the older employee to train them. Then comes the shake up where the older guy/girl gets redundancy and replaced with the youngster at half the cost.
Once I had a sub contractor try to replace his foreman with me before I even had a chance to get familiar with the business. When I asked him what would make him think that was a good idea, he told me it was simply because he could pay me less. I wasn't insulted but I also was not impressed. At all. He ended up with no one to run things for him and he had to take over to keep from going under.
It's not going to work well for them. What they don't know is when they give these jobs to others overseas. Over time those workers will ask for raises. Their living standards will grow and in the U.S. ours will drop meaning you won't have a strong worth while market in the U.S.A to sell your product at. Those overseas countries will grow and so will those employees they will see the company making more and more profits where they will eventually ask for raises. It will eventually over time get expensive overseas. This will eventually get more expensive compared to the U.S.A over time. They eventually will not find people who will want to work in the U.S.A after getting such treatment. Why because after manipulating them and black mailing them by low balling them. All the people they screwed over will not want to work for you for any amount of money.
@@bebdaumon3948 I would like to believe this but unfortunately there’s a never ending supply of freshers that will be willing to meet any requirements. This is the thing with us, we forget easily or we simply age and new clueless generations come in.
@@DecisionForest Yes, this is true but there's a hidden cost when they get new people no one is efficient. It takes time for people to learn the job and the system they need to use in the company before they start working efficiently that pays off. Normally companies need to keep people at least 5 years to get a return on their investment. There's a lot of up front cost on hiring people. If the companies hire people over seas and have them remotely work. That's a temporary fix. Over time they will ask for more money. They would expect raises and it's because other companies in that country will offer more money for experienced workers and those employees will dip if they don't get that raise. There's a reason why India now has a middle class. The U.S.A middle class is shrinking and the middle class in India is increasing. The prices in India are going up for any kind of work you need done. In the past 10 years ago the prices were cheaper. Today it's more expensive but still cheaper than the U.S.A. My point is at some point it will get expensive in India over time. Once that time comes they will come back to the U.S.A and they will be able to hire people cheaper than people over seas. The problem is that even though those would be newer generations but those kids will hear the stories of what we say and tell them. If they're smart they will listen and not be loyal to these companies. My point is that they will still hire people but no one is going to ever give 100% and won't care if they get fired. There's no motivation to do a good job. That in itself is a hidden cost that these companies don't understand. That will increase over time no matter where they keep hopping to hire their labor force.
@@bebdaumon3948I think we’re already seeing that with the millennial and Gen Z generation. We’re realizing why work our butt off when we wont see any gains from doing so? You could work as hard as you can and still struggle to make rent and pay bills (especially with inflation recently)…so why bother? Obviously some income is better than none but at a job, just do the bare minimum for the paycheck until there’s more incentive to go above and beyond. At least if you’re salaried ..any extra work is free labor for the company.
@@DecisionForest unfortunately, that seems unlikely. With the idea of "too big to fail" it's the government that is helping these idiots in a mutual downwards spiral.
@@Matthew-zu6tm that’s true, the more employees you have the more the governments help :) which helps companies cause they have this safety net while they reset salaries
@@DecisionForest I know, and not until the country goes bankrupt / default then even afterwards, they will still exist. But hopefully the companies will be forced to change hands a few times.
The surplus of job seekers/applicants creates a lot of noise. When I see a job that’s got some unique setup of requirements which my skills closely match, I know there cannot be more than 5-10 people I can compete with. In the past I would certainly get an interview, but now you see hundreds of applicants jumping in. It looks like everyone applies to every job available and this clogs the system even more.
lol cmon we’re not North Korea….however a fitting punishment would be the CEO be working at the lowest employee salary for 6 months or something 😂. Like undercover boss but it’s for real
When you cut your top staff like that, the end result always suffers. These same companies always turn around 5-10 years later and question why their products suck now. It's a cycle they refuse to learn from.
It went from 6,000 to 2,000 but you kept describing it as "not a significant drop." And at no point did you acknowledge the fact that, as the salary dropped, so did the quality (not just quantity) of the applications. Ultimately it doesn't matter how "many" applicants they can attract---they are going to get candidates of quality that is commensurate with the pay. So I don't know why you think it's some kind of experiment they're playing, as if testing the impact to QUANTITY means anything to them.
completely agree with you but companies see that the number of application still remained relatively high. "Significant" stops being relevant after 500 applications because nobody will look at so many individually. The quality decreased probably because there were different people applying at various salary levels. But again, from a company's perspective, all applicants are human resources - indistinguishable to them.
My last job was doing this. I applied for the higher position. And got told they don't hire into it. Ended up with the lower one. Any least got 17.25 hourly. But another coworker there for over 6 years didn't make more than a $1 above me. Some other coworkers made $15. And the managers were not wanting to promote into the higher position even though one coworker had been trying for years. I finally quit after management was being such pleasant people. Only regret is I couldn't call my manager some lovely words to his face as he was off that day.
I don't apply anymore to plain old electronic job posts, I only consider to apply if a physical HR person contacts me. I figure if a physical person calls me or messages me, there's a smaller chance the job is totally fake since that person's time has some cost involved.
To be more specific myself, contractor rates for tech jobs are at 2016 levels, and in 2016 they were already lower than the 2012 period when it was really lucrative
These kind of companies exist every where. Even in local utilities. I interviewed recently and am willing to accept a paycut because i need a job. But the want a project manager who is a skilled full stack developer and a tech admin for less than $80k and no benefits or paid time off for a year. And has to be onsite. With a max of 40 hours? They listed a dozen projects you would be working on up front.
So they expect PMs to be full stack devs? When AI productivity increased I told many of my SWE friends that we’re all gonna be project managers soon. It’s happening
This is pretty braindead as the chances are they won’t be the same applicants. And the 1 in those thousands that they actually want won’t necessary (in fact probably won’t) apply for the 80k version. So not sure which genius thought of this.
@@ManducaFlown very true, but to the business they’re seen as interchangeable human resources. Your assumption of logical thinking doesn’t work here :)
I've noticed how pay has gone down drastically. I've seen tech jobs that used to pay 30 an hour 10 years ago now pay around 20 with higher standards such as certification requirements ect. Time to start a business and stop relying on Corporations to just barely survive.
it is not a free market. i cant even go to a company to offer services unless im on a preferred vendor list. and unless youre the tata,infosys, wipro, etc. youre not getting on the list. all india companies.
I remember as a kid just 17 around 1980. Are company was bought by another. The following Monday they showed 70 people in the office area the door. Not one person in production that actually produced a product was fired. Ive seen alot. Every few years a healthy company will clean out the dead weight. I needs to be done. If a company hires good people they dont need to be managed. Middle managers are a dime a dozen. Ever notice that today everyone has a title? I guess it makes people feel important. You name it. Everyone has a title. Ive been through 4 plant shut downs. The people in production are the last ones out. Have fun.
@@peternorthrup6274 good points, these are worth it in times of recession like now but it’s hard to be valued at your worth when times are good and managers can just bs their way into positions
This is insane. I make 70k with an associates degree, and I only work 36 hours a week(medical field). All those people probably have a bachelor's and are expected to work 50 hours a week. Is tech even worth it?
What job and associates degree did you get? I want to get into the medical field but don't want to become a doctor because it's too much school and 70k is pretty good
@FaCiSmFTW Respiratory therapy. If you get into a long-term care facility, the job is so easy it's boring. I want to get an IT degree but only to give myself more options.
Governments cant do anything to stop most companies from doing. 1st thing, capital is damn near. 100% mobile. So they can easily deploy it elsewhere. If governments want to test this, companies will be able to move much faster and more easily than the law can move. Second i think the most likely thing to happen is that overall pay rates will fall and the government will allow employees to accept voluntary pay reductions to keep people working and maintain tax revenues. At least until we hit a bottom where wage growth can bounce back from. We will probably have to wait until 20 years after our age demographics begin to recover, which may be decades away. Long story short, i think we are well into a globally deflationary environment, and it'll still take a few years before its something we have to admit is going to be long term.
so truth. we should diversify income and use AI to our advantage having two medium income remote works or having one and enough time to do our own. also communicate which companies have ths practices on forums to avoid them if you are high skilled, why avoid them. any way they are not going to hire. if they are creating artificial scarcity so we must.
@@sergiocarmona7238 it would be good to have a list of companies that practice these shady tactic yes, unfortunately many people are scared to call them out
@@DecisionForest Completely Agree, on the last place I worked everyone knew the company was infringing the law but we all were too scared to lose our jobs since not being paid for one month could set us back financially, and they knew that, heck, even I'm still scared of them since my wife still works there and could retaliate against her in their "subtle" ways :/
This reminds of the Japanese people that report about how bad the Black Companies are in Japan. They have huge lists of companies to not work for because of how bad they treat their employees.
I have a master's degree in engineering with over 20 years of experience in the oil industry. I have cybersecurity and data science certifications, and yet no one seems to want me, in spite of all that. Same goes for women. Besides being intelligent, I'm a competitive bodybuilder and great looking, a good guitarist, and yet I'm single. What's this world come to?
On both aspects it's just making yourself look unattainable, it's sad that we have to play these games but in the end companies are run by people so it's the same dynamics.
Brother, drop the age range of women you are seeking and you'll be good. Go for woman age 21 to 25. You have muscles and they will like that. Older women are more serious about what they want in a man due to life experiences.
@@qatarworldcupwinnermessi Yes brother, you are right! Years ago I had a friend of mine in Alaska who is also an engineer, weightlifter, bodybuilder and plays guitar like I do. He told me to shoot for women who are 9's and 10's. He said he has better luck with the more beautiful ones than not so beautiful ones, and also young ones. Women aren't as concerned about physical beauty as men are, after they reach a certain age. When they are teenagers, looks really matter to them. You know-you were in high school and junior high. :) It seems the most attention and looks I get are from girls still in high school, or their late teens to early 20's. Yes, most women do like muscles, but not too much so where I am, which is Turkey. Or they say they don't. Maybe they do and they just don't admit it! :) Watch a woman's actions and don't listen to her words. :)
@@qatarworldcupwinnermessi There is an unwritten rule in dating, and it's that the woman MUST be better looking than her man. And she has to perceive that herself. Most women, esp in the non-western world, are not into hook up culture like US and other western women, so they want a relationship and later marriage. A man being handsome and well built are NOT criteria for a husband.
The answer to this is simple. Companies need to have the local areas where the operate have their charters democratically reupped every 10 years. If the community doesn’t like the number of jobs you provide or whatever, you can’t be a business in that area.
Yeah, this could be for a town, state, province, or entire country. You would get a government issued charter to operate in that state. Getting a charter would require a particular number of local jobs, benefits, you name it. If the company doesn’t deliver, then the charter is taken away and they are no longer allowed to operate in that area. My belief is companies exist to do more than simply make money. They should be provided by a benefit to that community. If they can’t, then let a local business fill that gap and let them go make money somewhere else. Local businesses would be immune from this.
You can't find a job because those HR managers sell those jobs to people in other countries. In Sri Lanka the lowest charge to get a job in a foreign country starts from 2000 USD. It goes up to 20000 USD depending on the country. Factory worker job in EU cost about 5000 USD. Caregiving job in UK cost about 20000 USD. That's why normal people can't find a job. I can guarantee what I said is 100% true.
Probably that's why the spike in companies that offer offshore services in these countries. Seems like the meta now is to sell offshore work and get your margins really high
In a way, I can't wait until we reach the point that we run out of people that are qualified or experienced... Just so all this can fly up in the faces of these wealthy shareholders. It's going to suck for us citizens, But I think it may actually be the only way the job market can begin to heal
Let’s also not shoot the recruiter. They don’t make the decisions besides the initial screening. They literally manage the process and get feedback from interviewers. If they whistle blow these issues they will be out of a job too. It’s easy to criticize them because they are the only person on our radar, but they or job is to do what best suits the company.
Good luck with the employee you get when you hire. F those companies. You save money by paying premium for a professional instead of outsourcing (if you can find one).
If I were an overseas worker, I’d take their business design and make my own business in my home country. Once they replace all their workers they’re also replacing their domestic consumers because they’ll have no jobs or aren’t getting jobs that can pay for their services anymore. Then I’d offer my services in my home country and eventually offer the same services back to them at a cheaper price. Sound far fetched? Take a look a china and their new cheap EVs.
Offer the services to the country that lost their initial purchasing power? Well I think that’s already happening. Not familiar with the EV market though, but look at how everyone is buying directly from China, not just businesses but consumers directly.
I am warning Americans. If you have a job, be very afraid how low the Market is dropping, First your compensation is sticking out like a nail. Second this will be your reality you will be facing if you loose you job.
It's a free market. If the economy has been destroyed by the government then these corporations have the power to do this. Next time consider who you vote for. You brought this on yourselves.
Cut the paychecks and you will see the Quality of applicants is going down so the quality of product or service is going down so customers experience is going down so sales are going down at the end stockprices will go down. It will not happen in a week, golden parachutes have plenty of time to jump out.
That’s what’s happening, I see the quality of services in the UK has been going down slowly in the past year while prices skyrocketed. Think it will still go on for a while though
Things won’t improve here in the US until we get effective regulation out of state and local gov’t… lobbying aka corruption is completely out of control
@@DecisionForest true that. All I know is skillset expertise matters, like you said, and I always got a job by showing up and following up. It matters and it shows I care. I never blanket resumé. Any company I must have personal interest in. It shows in your words and body language.
Let’s also not shoot the recruiter. They don’t make the decisions besides the initial screening. They literally manage the process and get feedback from interviewers. If they whistle blow these issues they will be out of a job too. It’s easy to criticize them because they are the only person on our radar, but they or job is to do what best suits the company.
It's not free market when these companies are being saved from bankruptcies and get subsidiaries for free
There's no such thing as a free market. There's only a rigged one or a fair one. I think we know which one we have.
It’s never been a free market and never will be. Capitalism always ends up corrupted to favour the rich.
u are conflating free market with fair market
Those aren't free. We're paying for all that stuff--like any other bullshit gov't welfare program.
Yeah. The government was voted into power by you so stop complaining. You chose this.
Governments need to put high taxes on companies with offshore (low cost) labor and who sell their products and services to local consumers . 🙃
@@youssefmejri4728 this would be a good solution, although don’t think it’s even being considered atm
@@DecisionForest employees' unions should impose it, because companies are becoming disgustingly greedy
@FirstNameLastName-lo6dg unions or taxes on offshore labour?
@@DecisionForest Trump literally said he would do this the other night at the debate. There might be some hope
@@rumblebeast08 let’s see what happens, it would be beneficial if we could get them in tech
Let me sum it up: They are trolling for the most desperate, not skills or experience, so they can pay as little as possible.
Job-trolling.
And the quality of works gets worse and worse until one day the quality is so bad, no one can fix it. Not at the pay they offer.
Yes and it shows…. The quality of everything is going down hill
They are gonna get exactly what they are paying for. Greed will bite them back as people will be unhappy, unproductive and result in high turn around.
@@adriannegrean1252 true, think it’s already happening, see this lack of motivation and willingness to do any work across many industries
After 3 rounds of hour-long interviews in the end of May'23 I was offered a position and told that I will receive an email with package details after Memorial day weekend. Two months passed and did not hear anything. Then in August, recruiter called me for the same position if I was still available. Upon asking, the recruiter said company hired someone cheaper in June and by end of July company had wasted time and money, and realized it was not a good fit. Of course, I turned down the offer for a company being so cheap.
@@Ezxziose4 wow, this is crazy that they’ve first ghosted you for cheap labour and then assumed you’d still be waiting in line. So disrespectful twice.
@@DecisionForestthat's awful...I invested in a stock ..that had counterfeit shares....I was guaranteed to make 120 Million..and the sec..shut down trading..and my account is at zero..if your interested ..lookup MMTLP stock....
USA is now hack job...
Corruption everywhere..
Prepare for it..sadly
Bravo. Good for you.
Read the book "The Tyranny of Metrics" and stop worrying about this stupid practices. This company does self harm which unfortunately it will see only in a mid- or long-term.
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check it out. I’m not worried about the companies, but about the salary reset that’s happening
fake job postings should be illegal
100%. They benefit the powerful at the expense of the needful.
Here in the United States, the federal reserve bank was basing its interest rates hikes/cuts on how many job postings employers had posted. I wonder how that will work out since 4 out of 10 were ghost jobs.
That was deliberately done imo, they know well that job postings mean nothing but it supported the growth narrative
@@DecisionForest There’s another government program called the Worker Opportunity Tax Credit or WOTC that enables certain categories of workers to be hired by employers. If the employer hires these people, they are eligible for close to a $10,000.00 tax credit.
We have an issue with people applying for thousands of jobs and never getting a reply. I have a feeling the WOTC may have something to do with it. Businesses claim they can never find any qualified employees, however, it would be tempting to wait and “harvest” those workers who would make them eligible for the tax credit. The WOTC really only affects low to mid range salaries but it’s another example of something that can be abused.
I would be curious to hear your thoughts, to be eligible for WOTC you have to be an ex-felon, person on social assistance or disabled. This program is also being extended to refugees under special circumstances. I’ve always been curious how the government might introduce UBI. With more people dropping out of the workforce and ending up on some sort of social assistance I wonder if this may be the government’s way of slowly introducing UBI. What is your opinion, it may seem completely crazy but there are a lot of things going on in the labor force that don’t quite add up.
Fake resumes should land you in jail too
The collective wisdom of all these HR/finance people amounts to a toddler's. They're making so many assumptions and the outcome of this will not play out well for these companies. The only logical outcome is that the company will continue to underperform due to the lack of labor and, eventually, they will lose all of their top talent.
@@rumblebeast08 yes, and I think it already started happening. Top management in many companies nowadays is completely lost, and short term cost cutting is the only thing they can do to help their numbers
Our entire HR department is nothing but women. The HR department has the HIGHEST turnover rate and we work for a factory and the company is overwhelming male. We can all do math here….
They are really proud to keep an overqualified underpaid dude for 1.5 week 😂 . Then they go out hunting again
My last job just lost me. I got sick of management playing games with us. Another coworker quit 2 days after me. And another is going the same way. Management has not hired anyone else in months leaving us short staffed and stressed. So being down to 5 people makes it even harder to do the work. I can only hope even more leave hurting management. Maybe they will finally learn. I was the strongest staff with my skills and they ruined it. I hope they enjoy hiring more subpar techs. And of course having the best skills still meant low pay.
Their is a pattern of C-Suite people outsourcing and moving on to their next director job before the inevitable disaster that most offshore workers are.
@@jaaguitar 100%, this is the new promotion meta
This is just a dumb idea all round. They're just reducing the quality of the applicants. The people still applying are people with less experience, confidence, and skill. They're not testing how desperate applicants are, they're just filtering out anybody worth hiring.
My point being that this practice will end naturally at some point. Either because they'll realise that they're just getting low quality applicants, or they'll ruin their own company as a result.
It's called a job market for a reason, they can lower their salaries all they like, that won't effect other companies. In fact, other companies that are smart would pay attention to stuff like this and advertise similar positions with competitive salaries.
@@highestsettings completely agree with this, many managers forgot to think about the most likely outcome of crippling their businesses in the long term by focusing on quarterly cost reductions. It has to correct itself but it can last for longer than we might like
The question is how much time has to pass by before they realize all of that.
@@DecisionForest That's because they hired the cheapest possible managers who aren't qualified to think about stuff like ruining the business! Just short term cost reductions.
It’s sad that many companies today chase maximum profits at the expense of any reason, borderline stupidity. Hopefully like you said, karma bites them in the ass financially
@@charliedallachie3539
On the other hand we all want capitalism, right? At least I prefer it over socialism. It's hard to complain why those companies want to max their profits. In general people run businesses to max profits. I would say what's interesting is that those companies chose just that over keeping some balance between profitability and employees wellbeing. Isn't that true that stock listed companies care less as shareholders care only about profit?
Most companies are doing ghosting/resume harvesting. All these companies wonder why people do not stay and have no loyalty.
@@dynamicfirearmsinc432 yes, but they care more about the personal data they collect. And those ATS systems are the real winners
Always happens during recession. Hire a young replacement and get the older employee to train them. Then comes the shake up where the older guy/girl gets redundancy and replaced with the youngster at half the cost.
That's the trick
Once I had a sub contractor try to replace his foreman with me before I even had a chance to get familiar with the business. When I asked him what would make him think that was a good idea, he told me it was simply because he could pay me less. I wasn't insulted but I also was not impressed. At all. He ended up with no one to run things for him and he had to take over to keep from going under.
@@Frank-qg4ik you handled it well, he was completely arrogant and glad that you didn’t accept that from him
What we need to do is start our own business and patronize independently owned and operated small businesses
This is the way
The people in power gaming the market against those of us in need is a prime example of why a practice like this needs to be illegal.
This is why I like picking up the phonebook
It's not going to work well for them. What they don't know is when they give these jobs to others overseas. Over time those workers will ask for raises. Their living standards will grow and in the U.S. ours will drop meaning you won't have a strong worth while market in the U.S.A to sell your product at. Those overseas countries will grow and so will those employees they will see the company making more and more profits where they will eventually ask for raises. It will eventually over time get expensive overseas. This will eventually get more expensive compared to the U.S.A over time. They eventually will not find people who will want to work in the U.S.A after getting such treatment. Why because after manipulating them and black mailing them by low balling them. All the people they screwed over will not want to work for you for any amount of money.
It's a pyramid scheme that will ultimately self destruct.
@@bebdaumon3948 I would like to believe this but unfortunately there’s a never ending supply of freshers that will be willing to meet any requirements. This is the thing with us, we forget easily or we simply age and new clueless generations come in.
@@DecisionForest Yes, this is true but there's a hidden cost when they get new people no one is efficient. It takes time for people to learn the job and the system they need to use in the company before they start working efficiently that pays off. Normally companies need to keep people at least 5 years to get a return on their investment. There's a lot of up front cost on hiring people. If the companies hire people over seas and have them remotely work. That's a temporary fix. Over time they will ask for more money. They would expect raises and it's because other companies in that country will offer more money for experienced workers and those employees will dip if they don't get that raise. There's a reason why India now has a middle class. The U.S.A middle class is shrinking and the middle class in India is increasing. The prices in India are going up for any kind of work you need done. In the past 10 years ago the prices were cheaper. Today it's more expensive but still cheaper than the U.S.A. My point is at some point it will get expensive in India over time. Once that time comes they will come back to the U.S.A and they will be able to hire people cheaper than people over seas. The problem is that even though those would be newer generations but those kids will hear the stories of what we say and tell them. If they're smart they will listen and not be loyal to these companies. My point is that they will still hire people but no one is going to ever give 100% and won't care if they get fired. There's no motivation to do a good job. That in itself is a hidden cost that these companies don't understand. That will increase over time no matter where they keep hopping to hire their labor force.
@@bebdaumon3948I think we’re already seeing that with the millennial and Gen Z generation. We’re realizing why work our butt off when we wont see any gains from doing so? You could work as hard as you can and still struggle to make rent and pay bills (especially with inflation recently)…so why bother?
Obviously some income is better than none but at a job, just do the bare minimum for the paycheck until there’s more incentive to go above and beyond. At least if you’re salaried ..any extra work is free labor for the company.
@@DecisionForest this is the key
These American corporations and the people that run them are sick
They do it cause we allowed it unfortunately
Any business that practice this, needs to be OUT OF BUSINESS.
@@Matthew-zu6tm well, eventually they go out of business due to bad hires
@@DecisionForest unfortunately, that seems unlikely. With the idea of "too big to fail" it's the government that is helping these idiots in a mutual downwards spiral.
@@Matthew-zu6tm that’s true, the more employees you have the more the governments help :) which helps companies cause they have this safety net while they reset salaries
@@DecisionForest I know, and not until the country goes bankrupt / default then even afterwards, they will still exist. But hopefully the companies will be forced to change hands a few times.
The surplus of job seekers/applicants creates a lot of noise. When I see a job that’s got some unique setup of requirements which my skills closely match, I know there cannot be more than 5-10 people I can compete with. In the past I would certainly get an interview, but now you see hundreds of applicants jumping in. It looks like everyone applies to every job available and this clogs the system even more.
CEOs need to spent 10 years at riker's island for each offense
lol cmon we’re not North Korea….however a fitting punishment would be the CEO be working at the lowest employee salary for 6 months or something 😂. Like undercover boss but it’s for real
@@charliedallachie3539 6 months? Try 15 years.
And these companies still wondering why their stock prices are going down the quality of applicants are just going down
And none of our stupid Politicians and Presidential candidates are talking about this.
When you cut your top staff like that, the end result always suffers. These same companies always turn around 5-10 years later and question why their products suck now. It's a cycle they refuse to learn from.
@@thetazero842 new leadership, never learned the lessons
you are covering such an important topic! thank!
I think so too, it’s important for people to see how they’re being played. Maybe this way less will play into those games
It went from 6,000 to 2,000 but you kept describing it as "not a significant drop." And at no point did you acknowledge the fact that, as the salary dropped, so did the quality (not just quantity) of the applications. Ultimately it doesn't matter how "many" applicants they can attract---they are going to get candidates of quality that is commensurate with the pay. So I don't know why you think it's some kind of experiment they're playing, as if testing the impact to QUANTITY means anything to them.
completely agree with you but companies see that the number of application still remained relatively high. "Significant" stops being relevant after 500 applications because nobody will look at so many individually. The quality decreased probably because there were different people applying at various salary levels. But again, from a company's perspective, all applicants are human resources - indistinguishable to them.
My last job was doing this. I applied for the higher position. And got told they don't hire into it. Ended up with the lower one. Any least got 17.25 hourly. But another coworker there for over 6 years didn't make more than a $1 above me. Some other coworkers made $15. And the managers were not wanting to promote into the higher position even though one coworker had been trying for years. I finally quit after management was being such pleasant people. Only regret is I couldn't call my manager some lovely words to his face as he was off that day.
I don't apply anymore to plain old electronic job posts, I only consider to apply if a physical HR person contacts me. I figure if a physical person calls me or messages me, there's a smaller chance the job is totally fake since that person's time has some cost involved.
This is better. If you fit what a company is looking for then recruiters will reach out. Less time and energy wasted for sure.
If they offer shelter with a bowl of Rice they will still get applicants
😂
2024 In the UK I'm seeing plenty of designer job listings that are on 2000-2005 year level (excluding inflation). Just above national minimum salary.
Think it’s across the board
@@DecisionForest This might very well be true; commenting with my first-hand experience.
To be more specific myself, contractor rates for tech jobs are at 2016 levels, and in 2016 they were already lower than the 2012 period when it was really lucrative
These kind of companies exist every where. Even in local utilities. I interviewed recently and am willing to accept a paycut because i need a job. But the want a project manager who is a skilled full stack developer and a tech admin for less than $80k and no benefits or paid time off for a year. And has to be onsite. With a max of 40 hours? They listed a dozen projects you would be working on up front.
So they expect PMs to be full stack devs? When AI productivity increased I told many of my SWE friends that we’re all gonna be project managers soon. It’s happening
@@DecisionForest but the salary is half unfortunately
@@heathbruce9928 that’s the future for all of us in the short term
This testing is abusive for candidates. Usually in the past we were applying for a job without knowing the salary at the moment when I was posting.
This is pretty braindead as the chances are they won’t be the same applicants. And the 1 in those thousands that they actually want won’t necessary (in fact probably won’t) apply for the 80k version. So not sure which genius thought of this.
@@ManducaFlown very true, but to the business they’re seen as interchangeable human resources. Your assumption of logical thinking doesn’t work here :)
2000 unqualified applicants isn't any better then 10 unqualified applicants.
I've noticed how pay has gone down drastically. I've seen tech jobs that used to pay 30 an hour 10 years ago now pay around 20 with higher standards such as certification requirements ect. Time to start a business and stop relying on Corporations to just barely survive.
We need to get better at boycotting.
it is not a free market. i cant even go to a company to offer services unless im on a preferred vendor list. and unless youre the tata,infosys, wipro, etc. youre not getting on the list. all india companies.
This is just plain evil and our stupid schooling system never talks about this.
Right, they just keep chugging away bs class work
2-3 remote jobs are key
that's the goal :)
Several people i know got laid-off, only to be offered their same job but a greatly reduced wage.
I remember as a kid just 17 around 1980. Are company was bought by another. The following Monday they showed 70 people in the office area the door. Not one person in production that actually produced a product was fired. Ive seen alot. Every few years a healthy company will clean out the dead weight. I needs to be done. If a company hires good people they dont need to be managed. Middle managers are a dime a dozen. Ever notice that today everyone has a title? I guess it makes people feel important. You name it. Everyone has a title. Ive been through 4 plant shut downs. The people in production are the last ones out. Have fun.
@@peternorthrup6274 good points, these are worth it in times of recession like now but it’s hard to be valued at your worth when times are good and managers can just bs their way into positions
Excellent analysis
Thank you Sir
@@mattanderson6672 thank you for your support
This is obviously the smart thing for the companies to do - & they have been doing this for a while. Im surprised anyone is surprised
This is insane. I make 70k with an associates degree, and I only work 36 hours a week(medical field). All those people probably have a bachelor's and are expected to work 50 hours a week. Is tech even worth it?
Now, in this period no. The competition at the jr to mid level is making it too hard for the potential benefits. It may change though
What job and associates degree did you get? I want to get into the medical field but don't want to become a doctor because it's too much school and 70k is pretty good
@FaCiSmFTW Respiratory therapy. If you get into a long-term care facility, the job is so easy it's boring. I want to get an IT degree but only to give myself more options.
Governments cant do anything to stop most companies from doing.
1st thing, capital is damn near. 100% mobile. So they can easily deploy it elsewhere. If governments want to test this, companies will be able to move much faster and more easily than the law can move.
Second i think the most likely thing to happen is that overall pay rates will fall and the government will allow employees to accept voluntary pay reductions to keep people working and maintain tax revenues. At least until we hit a bottom where wage growth can bounce back from.
We will probably have to wait until 20 years after our age demographics begin to recover, which may be decades away.
Long story short, i think we are well into a globally deflationary environment, and it'll still take a few years before its something we have to admit is going to be long term.
This is just encouraging a black market economy and a parallel society, and in that way it’s good.
6:00 Toyota in dfw does this for IT Manager
What is the name of the company that did this?
so truth. we should diversify income and use AI to our advantage having two medium income remote works or having one and enough time to do our own. also communicate which companies have ths practices on forums to avoid them if you are high skilled, why avoid them. any way they are not going to hire. if they are creating artificial scarcity so we must.
@@sergiocarmona7238 it would be good to have a list of companies that practice these shady tactic yes, unfortunately many people are scared to call them out
@@DecisionForest Completely Agree, on the last place I worked everyone knew the company was infringing the law but we all were too scared to lose our jobs since not being paid for one month could set us back financially, and they knew that, heck, even I'm still scared of them since my wife still works there and could retaliate against her in their "subtle" ways :/
@@Faskosu this is what they’re banking on. We all need to care for our families and in the end whistleblowing on this type of issues is tough
Definitely have multiple streams of income (will help survive layoffs) and learning how to use AI technology wouldn’t hurt either.
This reminds of the Japanese people that report about how bad the Black Companies are in Japan. They have huge lists of companies to not work for because of how bad they treat their employees.
5:00 that's the kicker. The current administration is greedy for numbers to get reelected and play the butt game too.
When it comes to salaries, that can be negotiated depending on the applicants experiences.
This is why in my profession I refuse to apply to jobs that are not increased in pay from my current position
It’s getting harder
People need to unionize. When unionization dropped people start getting screwed.
8:00 free market is a pretty loose term. We live in soft socialism in the US. That is our biggest issue. We get what we vote for.
100%
I have a master's degree in engineering with over 20 years of experience in the oil industry. I have cybersecurity and data science certifications, and yet no one seems to want me, in spite of all that. Same goes for women. Besides being intelligent, I'm a competitive bodybuilder and great looking, a good guitarist, and yet I'm single. What's this world come to?
On both aspects it's just making yourself look unattainable, it's sad that we have to play these games but in the end companies are run by people so it's the same dynamics.
Brother, drop the age range of women you are seeking and you'll be good. Go for woman age 21 to 25. You have muscles and they will like that. Older women are more serious about what they want in a man due to life experiences.
@@qatarworldcupwinnermessi Yes brother, you are right! Years ago I had a friend of mine in Alaska who is also an engineer, weightlifter, bodybuilder and plays guitar like I do. He told me to shoot for women who are 9's and 10's. He said he has better luck with the more beautiful ones than not so beautiful ones, and also young ones. Women aren't as concerned about physical beauty as men are, after they reach a certain age. When they are teenagers, looks really matter to them. You know-you were in high school and junior high. :) It seems the most attention and looks I get are from girls still in high school, or their late teens to early 20's. Yes, most women do like muscles, but not too much so where I am, which is Turkey. Or they say they don't. Maybe they do and they just don't admit it! :) Watch a woman's actions and don't listen to her words. :)
@@DecisionForest Yes, u got that right bro!
@@qatarworldcupwinnermessi There is an unwritten rule in dating, and it's that the woman MUST be better looking than her man. And she has to perceive that herself. Most women, esp in the non-western world, are not into hook up culture like US and other western women, so they want a relationship and later marriage. A man being handsome and well built are NOT criteria for a husband.
The answer to this is simple. Companies need to have the local areas where the operate have their charters democratically reupped every 10 years. If the community doesn’t like the number of jobs you provide or whatever, you can’t be a business in that area.
Can you detail on the reupped charters? not sure I understand
Yeah, this could be for a town, state, province, or entire country. You would get a government issued charter to operate in that state. Getting a charter would require a particular number of local jobs, benefits, you name it. If the company doesn’t deliver, then the charter is taken away and they are no longer allowed to operate in that area. My belief is companies exist to do more than simply make money. They should be provided by a benefit to that community. If they can’t, then let a local business fill that gap and let them go make money somewhere else. Local businesses would be immune from this.
Normally they don't post the salary range on job listings. Unless this is a new thing.
@@JoeBell9924 I see them adding it more and more. You look at the top end and they offer the low end :)
I figure you need to take your expertise directly to the client. Ultimately the client is the one who needs the service. Cut out the middleman.
This social engineering practice should be regulated.
You can't find a job because those HR managers sell those jobs to people in other countries. In Sri Lanka the lowest charge to get a job in a foreign country starts from 2000 USD. It goes up to 20000 USD depending on the country. Factory worker job in EU cost about 5000 USD. Caregiving job in UK cost about 20000 USD. That's why normal people can't find a job. I can guarantee what I said is 100% true.
Probably that's why the spike in companies that offer offshore services in these countries. Seems like the meta now is to sell offshore work and get your margins really high
In a way, I can't wait until we reach the point that we run out of people that are qualified or experienced... Just so all this can fly up in the faces of these wealthy shareholders. It's going to suck for us citizens, But I think it may actually be the only way the job market can begin to heal
It will happen sooner than we think. AI is making experienced people more productive now. But it destroys the capabilities of younger generations
Let’s also not shoot the recruiter. They don’t make the decisions besides the initial screening. They literally manage the process and get feedback from interviewers. If they whistle blow these issues they will be out of a job too. It’s easy to criticize them because they are the only person on our radar, but they or job is to do what best suits the company.
Good luck with the employee you get when you hire. F those companies. You save money by paying premium for a professional instead of outsourcing (if you can find one).
You get what you pay for even in software engineering.
But this is good for me as companies play these games I'm building faster then they could hope for.
As a rule, I spend an equal amount of time auditing security as I do applying.
Can you detail please?
If I were an overseas worker, I’d take their business design and make my own business in my home country. Once they replace all their workers they’re also replacing their domestic consumers because they’ll have no jobs or aren’t getting jobs that can pay for their services anymore. Then I’d offer my services in my home country and eventually offer the same services back to them at a cheaper price.
Sound far fetched? Take a look a china and their new cheap EVs.
Offer the services to the country that lost their initial purchasing power? Well I think that’s already happening. Not familiar with the EV market though, but look at how everyone is buying directly from China, not just businesses but consumers directly.
I am warning Americans. If you have a job, be very afraid how low the Market is dropping,
First your compensation is sticking out like a nail.
Second this will be your reality you will be facing if you loose you job.
@@lutzfilor8253 there is a salary reset happening for sure
Sounds like there's about to be a huge influx in the Trash Collection industry.🤔
There should be tbh :) the streets in london are awful and getting worse
Still waiting for the day when the C-SUITE move to the countries they outsource to.
It's a free market. If the economy has been destroyed by the government then these corporations have the power to do this. Next time consider who you vote for. You brought this on yourselves.
My case different to you guys my case going one 2008 to now
Cut the paychecks and you will see the Quality of applicants is going down so the quality of product or service is going down so customers experience is going down so sales are going down at the end stockprices will go down. It will not happen in a week, golden parachutes have plenty of time to jump out.
That’s what’s happening, I see the quality of services in the UK has been going down slowly in the past year while prices skyrocketed. Think it will still go on for a while though
Maybe it's better applying for jobs after the Canadian and American Federal Elections have passed?
@@craigs1437 it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens and how the overall mood changes
@@DecisionForest True, and AOC does have her 3rd degree black belt in Karate. Thanks
@@craigs1437 😁
It's supply and demand
Cut down the salary and you get just ppl that are not qualified. 😅
@@claudianreyn4529 that’s true, different people at different salary levels
answer: high interest rates
Things won’t improve here in the US until we get effective regulation out of state and local gov’t… lobbying aka corruption is completely out of control
Never understood how lobbying is accepted as fair game
That is a sick game to play on job seekers
Unfortunately yes
what we see itms corporate socialism. free market is no more and hasnt been since the 70s . capatalism in the US is gone.
Its a matter of there are so many people that need jobs
A growing number for a decreasing number of jobs
What goes around comes around.
We need French style labor protection law. That will make corporate America wake up, just mentioning it.
Not sure France is doing much better though
@@DecisionForest true that. All I know is skillset expertise matters, like you said, and I always got a job by showing up and following up. It matters and it shows I care. I never blanket resumé. Any company I must have personal interest in. It shows in your words and body language.
@@零云-u7e that’s the way to think and behave cause in the end you need to first be happy with yourself
1:00 and they will get what they pay for.
Eventually yes, 2025 might be the year
Name and shame them.
I am telling u boys, they will drop to 30-40k with no benefits and that's where software development is headed
THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL AND I DEMAND PAY OUT. FING BS
So subtract benes toy with the salary number and application flood hmm corporate needs to get charged fraud
If there's a draft I will immediately side with America's enemies.
C
good video
Thank you 🙏
You are under attack.
C
Let’s also not shoot the recruiter. They don’t make the decisions besides the initial screening. They literally manage the process and get feedback from interviewers. If they whistle blow these issues they will be out of a job too. It’s easy to criticize them because they are the only person on our radar, but they or job is to do what best suits the company.
I agree, poor guys are also at the whims of business decision makers. But. There are way too many of them that are completely unfit for the job