I watch and appreciate most of the vijeos, and will not stop watching because of the cursing. But, just as you insist the King of Random went too far (and he has) think about your pushing the boltrs with your own extreme foul talk. And why - just to offend people who you may think to be too straight, religious, or milk toast? I don't know what motivates the diatribes, but it does push away many people and children who would otherwise benefit from your engineering insights. You have a lot to offer Ave and I hope you can stem some of the anger and madness. For everyone's sake.
This came up in my feed this morning, I watched this one about a year ago when I was first learning about PLCs for my new job in maintenance. Now a year or so later, I am the guy in the shop designing, building, and programming the industrial equipment we build to help produce plastic slabs and sheets at the company I work for. I had built my own Click PLC learning board with 4 inputs 4 outputs, and my 9 year old would tell me what he wanted the lights to do, and I would build the program to do it. My company felt those skills were worth a VERY large raise, so now my family and I get to enjoy the rewards of that. AvE and a couple other guys on youtube are directly responsible for getting that info out to guys like me. Very thankfull to you and others Ave!!
Ribbon cables are a pain in the arse because they use insulation displacement connectors. They're very prone to causing intermittent problems that disappear for a while when the connectors are squeezed and reseated. So the pin headers are probably a better idea.
windson7 are you referring to the elastomeric connectors (sometimes called zebra strips) between a chip and a LCD? They mess up if not perfectly aligned, if oils leech out, or contaminants get in (like your skin oils). More info: mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8x-faded-lcd/
Dunno, I haven't really tried it. Plenty of people have to change their broken screens though so search online for guides to change your specific laptop screen.
Automation Enginerd here - You don't need a special programming cable for those CLICKs - they can be programmed via ethernet just like basically any modern PLC. Makes it real easy to network these guys together or stab it into your favorite Gorilla Machine Interface. Infinite buttons! Edit: Automation Direct's Cmore Panels are a fantastic little GMI's - Software is also free and pretty damn capable for home gamer's.
Ave Im 19 from the UK, and Im an apprentice maintenance technician for Nissan and Im currently doing PLC work, its unbelievable how many there is in the plant running most of the automation. Love the vijeos!
As a Controls Engineer, I have touched nearly all the flavors of PLCs. Ladder might not be the sexiest programming language, but it gets the job done. Most of the platforms will have flowchart, structured text, and function block programming as well. My goto is Allen Bradley, but like you mentioned, that is what I cut my teeth on many moons ago.
Worked at a laundry that had a DynaWash 1000C that was "programmed" with a plastic punch card wrapped around a spinning drum. Fingers like on a music box would fall into the punched holes and activate different functions like hot/cold water, steam, chemical supply, and the like. Pretty cool to watch it work.
Nuclear plant operator here: It might be a relief to know nuclear power plants still use old-school relay logic for critical systems. Thousands of relays. It’s a pain testing, maintaining, and modifying this type of logic for dozens of systems, but there’s little worry of meltdown inducing cyber attacks on that shit.
There are fail safe PLC systems that are allowed to use for human safety. So if you have a cold system (not online) and it uses safety PLC systems. do you that that is good enough? i mean, coils can burn and contacts can weld.
Matthew Ballinger oh, just weak coils, dirty contacts, busted sockets, loose wires, relays that are hard to find, techs plugging the wrong relay in the wrong socket. That's all great news... I think maybe we shouldn't mess with shit that never stops giving...
The way you explain it and show the process of programming makes it so much easier to understand, even a novice cable wrangler like myself was starting to get it. More plc videos please!
If anyone is interested in ladder then try Soapbox Snap, it allows you to program an Arduino with ladder instead of C++. Comes as a godsend to us visually learned tradesmen who play with PLCs and use the same symbols for our hardware drawings and programming.
I just ordered a starter kit if soapbox works I'm going to be happy I've been programming PLCs before most of you guys were born. Had terminal not even dos based software.
Amazingly, the transistor as a concept was developed in the 20s - the field effect type. We didn't have the means to manufacture it so it remained theoretical until 1947 with the invention of a point contact transistor.
Actually that is a misconception perpetrated by Wiki etc. Lilienfield had some lab samples working in the 1930's and I have heard it argued that he had one working at the point of the 1926 patent.
Bell Laboratory 'invented' the transistor in 1947, I will always remember, it was the year I was born.....by the late 1950's the integrated circuit was in production....
Ave, I really appreciate this “vijeo”. I am a system engineer. We use application control to identify the communication between these PLCs and SCADA systems for the purposes of segmenting traffic. Until this video, I had never seen a detailed explanation of their inner workings or a demo on how to actually program one of them. Thanks for posting!
I got a call to work on a tailings pond dredge that had four fuel tanks in the pontoons, and used one of the click plc's to keep the dredge level in the water by moving the fuel around the tanks. Needless to say, they don't work to well in -40 in northern Alberta without a heated cabinet. She wasn't choochin anymore.
Ladder logic... Back in the days when I was getting myself some edumacation, I was tasked to use programmable logics to make parts travel on a multi segmented conveyor belt with sensors and such, and it was also said that the location of each part has to be known at all times with as high precision as possible with given sensors. Naturally more inputs and outputs were required than what one PLC had to offer, and as I asked for interconnection cable, I was told that I may not use one. The program had to be returned drawn on paper with ladder logic. The teacher had some kind of grin on his face when he gave the task to the class, probably thinking that he doesn't have to give anyone a full score. After realizing that I can't use the official communication bus, I decided to sacrifice one output and input from each logic and use those for communications. I used the other logic as master and the other slave; slave stopping everything and signaling master when something changed, giving the input status to the master logic. Master logic responded with instructions on what to do with outputs. It wasn't Morse code, but still something similar, playing with delays that were available. As we had nice amount of time to use, I tweaked the protocol to be as fast as the relay outputs were able to reliably crank out. The expression on teachers face was something from close neighborhood of disbelief, as he was checking if my plans worked as required and the part traveled to the slave logic area; there is a small pause in the movement, rapid rattling of relays and part travels onwards, then more rattling, etc. As I returned the ladder logic program on paper, five (or was it six?) tightly packed papers with ladder logic on both sides, I asked when I can get the papers back. "It might take some time, just leave them on the table". I never saw the papers again, but I got the maximum score for the course.
AvE, the battery/supercap is for keeping the real time clock running so that it doesn't lose time every time the machine is off. Program wouldn't get lost, that one is for sure stored in a flash memory (that big chip at the bottom is unlikely to be an SDRAM but flash). Also the chip for the serial port is most likely a TTL to RS232 level converter (3.3V -> +-12V that RS232 ports need), the other chip is a transciever for RS485 serial line. Then there is most likely a PHY interface chip for the ethernet too.
Back in the '80s and '90s I wrote PC software that communicated with various different brands of PLC - so many different serial protocols, so many different addressing schemes - they were like snowflakes: all basically the same, yet completely different. Ladder logic might be primitive - but done properly there's a good chance that your PLC program actually does what you think it does, and will continue to do so even in situations you hadn't yet considered, and that's a big advantage when you're controlling something potentially life-threatening.
I wish that Automation Direct would release an open source linux version of their programming software. If they are going to give it away for free why not release the code?
That's why I liked AB software for on line edits you could test before assembling. The old TI / Siemens and Mitsubishi software had no test you did change hit enter and it was done no do-overs.
The last couple years I've been building controllers for various things using the Raspberry Pi. Ten-amp relays built to directly interface with the Pi are cheap (8 relay board
LADDER LOGIC!!! The first industrial [manufacturing engineering] job I ever had, in 1976, was working on a styrofoam coffee cup press, privately engineered for speed and efficiency. It was an order of magnitude faster than the then state-of-the-art presses. The relay logic was of the custom-built electromechanical type in a BIG NEMA box. Nasty rat's-nest wiring behind that clean panel. The schematic was ladder logic, with about 40 rungs and 60 components. The sequence of operation was critical to the speed of the press. I reconstructed from that ladder logic diagram a timing chart, so I could understand what the hell I was working on. After I'd been there for a week, my supervisor noticed that I was carrying around a 3x5 card with that diagram. Leaving it on my nightstand at home at night. He informed me that it was a proprietary secret that I could be fired for possessing. Worth lots of cash if it were marketed as industrial espionage. What the hell, I was young and ignorant, but not stupid. Weird bunch, that Dart family. I had no idea ladder logic even survived. Thought it was lost back in the Pleistocene.
A video on when to use a Arduino vs a PLC for a specific project would be useful. Some homegamers might benefit from knowing about industrial PLC, while some people in industry don't need a PLC for for a simple small scale project/test rig
Just installed one of these two days ago on a Nestal 800 ton press. Monitoring mold open to mold close on the Europmap 67 plug, triggering a 1 second 24v signal. It is all about cycle times. Signal sent to the production monitoring computer. I am actually on the automation side just installing a CBW robot(Utilizes Beckoff PLC). Even after getting my mold intrusion time down to bid time, of course they want another 1/10th or two. All about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$(That is USD, not Canadian)
Chris Rodenbeck Hi Chris, I am a Brother in arms, lol. We run 5 Netstal Evos 3500's doing in mold labeling on thin wall open top packaging. The IML presses run Waldorf or Mueller robots. We also have 24 Husky's (mostly all with CBW robots). Nothing over 600T. We have an old Husky T388 that still has relay logic. It can be a real pain to trouble shoot. Hopefully it is going away soon. Where are you located?
Well it is a traveling job but I live in Colorado. I work for CBW as a service engineer and we are located in Colorado. CBW was just purchased by Müeller . November of 2016 I actually got to spend 18 days in Näfels Switzerland at the Netstal factory. Wow what a beautiful area.
Chris Rodenbeck I am the lead maintenance mechanic at Polytainers Inc in Lee's Summit Missouri. Do you cover this region? It was covered by a guy that quit after 20 years or so. I know CBW robots and stackers pretty well from a previous stent at Barry Plastics, but presently I have very little to do with the automation unless they get stuck on a problem. I take care of the molding machines and thermo-forming machines and training new mechanics. If you are ever traveling in this neck of woods, I could probably set you up with a home cooked meal. My wife is not a bad cook.
I'm old enough and worked on machines old enough that we started converting our various equipment over to these programmable logic controllers, they definitely tidied up the whole process of calibrating the run parameters. When using these though just remember to Not Piss Off some Government somewhere that has a crack hacker team, you just might find all your machines one day shedding parts like a fragmentation grenade.
Started my first job this month and we're setting up a Mitsubishi PLC with a bunch of different inputs and outputs; VFDs, an HMI, BLDC motor controllers, etc. Programming is a bit of a pain but at least they have a block diagram/ladder logic hybrid option we can use. Plus it's quite satisfying to hear the relays click whenever you turn something on or off. :)
Wow, very educational! I had never bothered to learn how useful the PLC might be. Usually I just design a purpose-built board, have to get it built or build it myself, do the atmel or PIC programming... I was just about to do an addon for my CNC mill, now I think I'll use a PLC and even replace all the existing relay logic inside the mill. Thanks for your great videos.
Brings back memories. Back in the late 80s I designed and implemented a substation tap changer system using two Omron PLCs. The two 33KV to 11KV transformers were about 2 kilometers apart. The PLCs coordinated tap changing communicating with each other using 300 baud modems connected over a dedicated comms cable with high voltage isolation barrier transformers at each end. Good PLCs were really expensive back then. The special ladder logic software needed a parallel port dongle and ran on a IBM XT PC and worked quite well. There were no problems with USB or drivers as every PC had 2 serial ports and if you got the wiring correct it all just worked.
Yet another great video. Went to school and votech for industrial automation, spent two years as an electromechanical tech at a battery factory, currently an electrician at a copper foundry. I've spent a hell of a lot of time with PLCs. They can be quirky, but those powerful little Lego bricks help keep the world turning. Flexible, reliable, relatively small learning curve.
Thing is the old ladder logic will still be running 50 years later on, while the fancy PLC would have been, out of necessity, rewritten at least a dozen times in new controllers, as the old ones turned into obsoletium, and there was no programmer even capable of reading the old program, leaving the new one to be written from scratch from the inputs and outputs the old one had, and a description or tracing of the old code, or old printed copies of the code. Yes the relays and the cam switches are expensive ( $15 each for the ultra reliable cam switches I changed last year, which are still a current part, despite the design being from the 1960's, and the old switches being made in the beginning of 1970, around 30 million cycles past the design life of 1 meeeellion cycles) but they do last longer than the electronic do.Same old motors as well, and a good number of the original Brown Boveri relays as well.
I learned more about how PLCs operate in this video than I did in hours of training and trying to learn it on my own. Thank you! This was a huge help to me.
Programmed a plenty of Modicon some GE, Allen Bradley and some Triconix. Lots of fun, at least the Modicon and Triconix. I didn't care for the others. I have been tempted to buy one of the new cheapie versions of PLC to play with but then I always want some practical use and that kills the purchase. Nothing around here needs control. Sigh. 😢
Yeah maybe. I think most amateur cnc runs on arduinos or something and uses something similar to "C" programming. I have done that also. I have two Arduinos that I used to play with a stepper motor a couple of years ago. I think I got enthused by AVE controlling a spindexer. Someone did anyway but at the time I did not have a spindexer and after burning up a couple of stepper controllers learning I just stopped after I learned how to make it work.
Ah, Ladder Logic! During college I worked as a programmer at a company that made SCADA systems, where the automation brain trust contained many folks from the steam era. While they were quite comfortable with modern PLCs, they insisted on everything being documented and reviewed in ladder logic. We even pasted the ladder logic printouts on the inside of the PLC enclosures. We didn't program the PLCs in ladder logic, but in a custom procedural language that could be exported as ladder logic for documentation purposes. The compiler could also import ladder logic files and convert them to procedural code. One page of procedural code was equivalent to at least a dozen pages of ladder logic. The thing is, having both representations proved to be very valuable, as some problems that were easy to miss in the procedural code were much more visible in ladder logic.
I work with STM32 like that quite often, and while at first glance it does look a bit like overkill, those chips are dirt, dirt cheap. Any chance we could get the full reference? I'm betting on a STM32F4 something. I think there was a similar one on the Juiceroo by the way. PS: ST Microelectronics is actually from France, not Japan. Honestly it's not so much about where the components on the BoM come from - it's about who can ship a metric shitton of it to the assembly house the cheapest.
I love how small things are these days and how feature rich and simple they can me. I just got a new job where I rely on a good board with a CAN bus and Ethernet. It is just also fun to be a home gamer and how tons of small and large scale computers and they all can talk to each other.
From the features, the progmem size and the maximum frequency, I guess you're right. I feel a STM32407 would have fit the bill and be a bit cheaper, but it's possible they wanted the crypto hardware for some reason.
I think it is STM32F407IGTx. But they are not dirt cheap. Around USD 7.5 a piece (or even more from places like Digikey). Cheapest Ethernet capable STM32 is a USD 2 point something device. But it is a lower pin count part, so this one is not that.
holy shit this took me back a few years to my ITT Tech days when we had to learn about this. best way i ever found to program lol. thanks for sharing such an eclectic style of programming that not many people know about!!
Sometimes I'd wonder, but never really gave much thought to the O l on a power switch. Cue AvE with a nonchalant flip of the switch OFF(zero) ON(one) and suddenly it all makes sense. How the hell did I make it this far in life?
@AvE you can program the click Ethernet plcs over the network, no serial cable needed. The software has everything you need to setup the address on the plc aswell, it also makes a good option for programing plcs in hard too reach locations like behind a milling machine 😉
I've used one of these on a hydraulic hay press, and it's worked great for 3+ years and still kicking. I thought you were going to slam the device, but you didn't! BTW, you can do a math operation in a one liner based on a scan counter to toggle an LED/output.
Ah, it wasn't a one liner, been a while since I worked on it. Basically you do a math SD9 MOD 400 and store somewhere in DS (I used DS2) then a compare of value DS2>200 output to Y101.
It's not mine, I just maintain the machine. It's the same hay moisture content as bailed hay, low. It's not pellets, it's just compressed so the shipping cost is lower. Purchases are usually for rabbits and other small animals.
Bonus points for the single timer flashing. I see so many guys with separate on and off timers that trigger each other and they completely overlook this much simpler and more elegant solution.
Love it, interesting watch. The way you bring it makes the material you are discussing easier to comprehend. Wish I had you as my mentor when I was in school.
The ARM Cortex can only handle input/output of between ground and Vcc (1.7-3.3). Without voltage stepdown logic, 10 volts to the ADCs will result in a thoroughly blown chip. Atmel (Now part of Microchip as you said) offers some higher (5.5-12V) ARM chips, but they still rely on using a Vcc or AREF (analog reference) higher than the voltage being sensed. Great Vijeo as always.
English isn't my first language, but I'm pretty sure "series" is the correct word. Wire them back-to-back to GND and high voltage, and get the low voltage between the two resistors.
Tony, voltage divider is just more specific. A square is also a rectangle (and a parallelogram and a quadrangle) but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square.
Man what a throwback!! 15 years ago I was in school using MEDOC software on Mitsubishi FX PLC's. Learned BASIC, C, C+, Python, and 20 other things, got certified in Fiber Optic, trained on Allen Bradley PLC's, passed my certificates for Electronics Technician, and didn't do a DAMN THING with it after school. LOL...... Basically went for nothing, but I still remember it all. I haven't seen these ladder logic programs on basic PLC's in 15 years. Great throwback!
I recently worked as an intern over my winter break, and was assigned a project using CLICK. I took a full month to teach myself the program from scratch. Great video, I just wish it was uploaded a month ago!
Got my BS process control and automation back in '96! While the software engineers were learning 'C' my classmates and I were learning how to talk with PLC's. Those classes turned out to be a valuable asset; PLC programming requires a very ordered and structured thought process. PLC's are a great way to handle many projects that people run to the Arduino for, then spend way too much time interfacing and programming.
Brings back memories. As a younger man I programmed TI-565PLC to handle two MMI's and 2,500 I/O. The printed output of the ladder logic was 1,000 pages in condensed print. Took 3 months to type it in. Had to use subroutines to keep from consuming all available memory. Neat system, you could hot load program changes while the program was running.
Survival Russia I've seen you several times in the comments of many other channels I watch, Lars! UA-cam must prioritize the visibility of your comments or something, based upon the amount of videos I've watched from you or my subscription to you. Or maybe it's giving you video suggestions based upon what your viewers are watching? Or maybe it's all in my head ;P Anywho, nice seeing you around! Even if I might have been 2 months late...
Hey Uncle B., We still have an old Husky molding machine that has relay logic. When I first started trouble shooting relay logic machines, I had a older maintenance guy tell me that if I ever got stuck and couldn't find the problem, just take all the relays out, put them in a bag, shake and put them back in the press. That that works 90% of the time. I've never been that stumped, but have been tempted.
Oh come on now...you can use ladder logic to do the equivalent of pumping out a Shakespeare play, and to be fair, you did the equivalent of learning how to type the letter A. I'm impressed though that you went as far as you did in explaining PLCs and ladder logic. Most people have no clue that that's what's controlling just about everything in automation.
I really like my RedBoard for how much it opens up. It's a similar idea as what's shown in the video but much simpler build to make it more affordable to hobbyist. The one thing I like about those industrial PLCs is that you have modular circuits already in the box ready to drive things with usefully high voltage and amperage. Doesn't require as much boilerplate circuitry to get a project going and has some of the controllers you'll commonly need already implemented (like proper motor controllers).
Love the channel, the information you provide is great! Your terminology is hilarious, workshop chat is funny, ignore the haters! You are one clever guy!
I've used these in a couple of different applications. To control venting on an industrial air compressor and for an automatic boot washer in a cheese plant.They are great little PLCs and the software is free.
Don't hate on ladder logic too much, i work on ladder, structured text, and function block everyday and I think ladder is the easiest to read and trouble shoot. Click plcs are cheap and work pretty well for what they are. When the downtime costs $1000/min and the GM is breathing down my neck I would much rather be troubleshooting ladder logic than anything else. If you know what your looking for it's fairly easy to find the problem.
I'm a young buck with both I&C and Electronics Tech, but in school I've used ABB and Omron PLCs. Working on equipment, I've seen Siemens and a whole lot of other ones. Think I have a spare one with an LCD kicking around. Software costs a fortune though. PLC ladder logic is super simple to learn, very basic. Best and most used rung is the start/stop interlock. Once you get into PID and comparators, it gets really interesting. Using one of these and programming a system by had from scratch, you could start with 100-200 rungs and after 60 hours, you could take it down to 40-50 rungs by combining rungs and eliminating useless ladders. Programmed a water level tank to control the water level within 10mm using a hydrostatic pressure sensor. Course, you had manual fill and drain valves, so people would fuck with the system to see if they can break it. Tinker with the PID (mainly the I&D enough) and you get the thing to run within 5mm. Got the program here somewhere.
I learnt ladder on Mitsubishi after taking a £600 day course (thanks to the boss) It was no more in depth than what you've just demonstrated in 20mins!. Except I actually understand you better and you're far more entertaining. The PLC training course was so dull... it was like sitting in a funeral parlour while Marvin the robot read a telephone book. Excellent stuff... you played with M-Duino PLCs?
I have used m-duino PLCs - cheap way of doing things, similar to the one in this video and and good for non-critical stuff but it doesn't have a failsafe CPU like the Siemens et al so you can't use them in any safety critical applications without external monitoring or mitigations. What do you think?
I'll admit to any and everyone I know little about EE. Mechanical tons...but after watching your vijeos I am confident to talk EE with someone. Even though I am just repeating what I learned from you. Excellent job AvE
It was the way circuits were drawn when you used REAL relays, contractors, electronic timers , push buttons and so on Each line was numbered so if you had a relay with 4 contacts you could write on the margin by the coil which line each of the relay contacts was located.I have had some diagrams that were on a sheet of paper 6m (20ft) long. Once you get used to reading them they are very logical and very quick to read.
Just a note about the ADC, three channels on the ST means 3 simultanious ADC conversions at a time. Each of those ADC channels also has a multiplexer so that each has many inputs. In terms of things like an Arduino, which has 1 ADC with 6 channels. The ST has 3 ADCs with each having 8 channels or something like that depending on the specific chip features.
A PCB board? I think I've heard of those. Is it like an ATM machine, an LCD display, or a PIN number? Yep, that's right, the RAS syndrome police are here.
As a programmer, the ladder logic did indeed almost cause me eye cancer. Thankfully you forewarned us - I engaged my safety squints and was able to get through it and still enjoyed the video. 🙂
Fun History Fact: PLCs started with Midicon Controls which was branched off of Andover Controls Corp. which was the first digital building system controller that my grandfather started in the 1970s with Sun Keeper Control Corp. which made heating system controllers exclusively for Sun Master Corp. which was his solar heating company.
Glad to see you talk about PLC! As much as I like playing with the little arduinos and stuff, these little click plcs have a soft spot in my heart. They are great, robust little controllers(my oldest click is 5 years old running 24/7). I have build several of these for many little projects around our plant and they are great. And as far as I'm concerned the click programming is years ahead of rslogix by Allen Bradley (though you are a little more limited.) Love watching your videos keep up the good work.
Oh my god, I heard all your warnings about eye cancer and I was like "how bad can it be". I recently graduated pixie wranglin school where I learned C++, Java, and a few other languages. Can confirm my corneas are fucking trashed
Took a trip down the PLC history rabbit hole before the holidays. Very interesting and we now at the 50th anniversary of its birth. As would be fitting, what became the accepted design was written out by Dick Morley on January 1, 1968 due to a hangover and him being tired of solving the same problem over and over for clients. Later, they ran into the GM request for such a device. Also fitting, Morley supported himself in college working as a machinist. Note these don't have on/off switches, nor blue screens of death. They just run. GM gave one of the originals back after 20 years of continuously running some process. It's on display at Schneider Electric who now own Modicon. Morley used to write a column for Manufacturing Automation (he passed last January). I enjoyed this story of how the PLC beat out Digital "The real test went something like this. Our competition was the PDP-14. It was designed to GM specifications for a controller. I guess GM thought they could design computers as well as automobiles. Stan Schoonover of Landis had early experience with both our Modicon unit and the Digital Equipment PDP-14 and he selected the 084 Modicon (now Schneider) unit as his preferred component. Well! The Digital salesman rankled. Stan held his ground. So the Digital man brought down Ken Olsen to see Stan. At the time, Mr. Olsen was president and cofounder of Digital Equipment Corp. (the Bill Gates of the late '60s). Stan showed Mr. Olsen the 084 setup running a small control problem. The unit had welding cables wrapped around it with the welder being used and it ran fine. Stan then took his Coke and poured it over the 084 - it still ran fine. The experiment also ran next to a huge motor starter. Stan said, "When I can do this to your PDP-14, I will buy some." Mr. Olsen soon cancelled the PDP-14 program.The PLC has two things going for it: ladder logic and good hardware."
for extra reliability, sometimes two or more plcs are run in parallel so that if one fails there is another to take over. i worked on a public transit job and there were two systems that were redundant plcs: the emergency traction power cut plcs, and the fire ventilation system plcs.
Sounds like you’re rocking a proper mechanical keyboard in this video! I’m going to guess cherry blue switches by the sounds of it. Skookem as frig. That’s what I use, feels great compared to typing on contact lenses which is what those cheap membrane keyboards are like.
A quick look at Intel Ark, as this interested me to, and you can find their Xeon Phi 7295 72 core on 14 nm architecture. You will most likely fin these CPUs in large supercomputers and server farms as they are not intended for the general consumer. ark.intel.com/products/128690/Intel-Xeon-Phi-Processor-7295-16GB-1_5-GHz-72-Core
One of the craziest mechanical/relay based systems are the old elevator controls. There are relays, things that slide, things that turn, massive adjustable wirewound resistors etc etc. I worked for one branch of GE and we used GE/Fanuc PLC's. We wanted technical info so we could repair our boards but GE Industrial said it was proprietary. We said we work for GE also, they said it's proprietary, we said we work for the SAME COMPANY!. Finally had to get legal involved and had to sign papers that said we wouldn't disclose any of this information to anyone. This was before the internet age.
Good lord you weren't kidding about programming this... now I definitely consider myself a visual learning type and whatnot, but for fuck's sake a few lines of legible C++ (a la arduino) would seem infinitely more intuitive to me than this labyrinth of menus and diagrams I can barely comprehend. Way too roundabout of an approach. I'm literally riddled with cancer-AIDS.
The trick is that you're using the shitty GUI to build a logic diagram. ANDs ORs NOTs timers and other simple functional blocks via emojis, in a loose approximation of how you would literally build something equivalent out of relays. If you're used to and able to think in addresses and library calls, it's hell. But if your used to thinking about controls systems that do logic with wires and relays, it's pretty intuitive. Once you mostly learn to navigate the GUI, that is.
I mean I'm as lazy a bastard as they come so if I'm going to be programming logic gates I'd rather get an FPGA and learn a legit HDL instead of slogging through this
@@ACTlVISION Now picture yourself walking someone in maintenance over the phone who has little to no programming experience and telling them what to look for and change.
Hey there, I've never experimented with PLCs before, and I've been doing this stuff for over a decade now. It's about time, I've just placed an order for some of this CLICK PLC stuff you just demoed. It does look pretty fun to play with. Thanks for the video!
so basically the brain in a 200$ coffee machine that makes 1 cup of shitty coffee from a $5 pod? edit...I'm phoning my coffee maker now so I can ensure I can get warm brown water after my 2 hr/ 10 km commute from my environmental protection job that reduces consumer waste edit of edit...actually I install a lot of machines in factories that need this device that operates the order of firing up machines depending on full/ empty, fast or slow speeds depending on product flow, and on or off depending on how many pixies flow according to load.
in the paper die-cutting playground of folder/gluer process machines I had eyes to mount to the trapeze which would time jets of glue right before the first fold. conveyor belt machines are a lot of fun.. I know, this thing could be taught to run all of that shite like x 10,000,000,000... but just the tinkering set-up is such an adventure.. also worked with letter inserters in a junkmail room.. "Winkjet" is one hell of a cool machine. prints different addresses one at a time, switches between envelopes super-quickly. nice look inside of the guts of these beasts.
Thanks man! I remembered my own Arduino project about pressure sensors for my air conditioning for my house that I started years ago but didn't finish. Today I made a breakthrough getting it to work. :)
Just subscribed! Your vidjeos are just brilliant, and also so is your subscriber base, the quantity of pure-gold comments below had me snot-bubbling. Please don't change a thing.
I spend alot of my time programming PLC's for my company. Mostly Omron and Allen Bradley. It is something I really enjoy and the ladder logic isn't too bad especially if you understand relay logic
Your a smart man partner as an instrumentation tech I can honestly say to you Ave that you’re knowledge about so many different things is amazing and motivated me expand my knowledge in my everyday lite
I love the info you share with us, you inspire me to learn on a daily basis. Thank you for sharing your wisdom in a way that is informative and comedic all at the same time! Big fan!!
I worked on those old machines that you had to set dogs and cams while machining. The ol AB's and AC's. That ol WW2 machinery ran pretty true, for what it was.
I watch and appreciate most of the vijeos, and will not stop watching because of the cursing. But, just as you insist the King of Random went too far (and he has) think about your pushing the boltrs with your own extreme foul talk. And why - just to offend people who you may think to be too straight, religious, or milk toast? I don't know what motivates the diatribes, but it does push away many people and children who would otherwise benefit from your engineering insights. You have a lot to offer Ave and I hope you can stem some of the anger and madness. For everyone's sake.
Extreme foul talk?
He has one of the cleanest mouths (vocabulary) compared to my friends.
If you no like no watch
+Richard William fuck that noise.
"Fuck that noise". Died of laughter.
Wtf over!??? God dam bible thumper
Richard William Let the man swear in his own shop for fucks sake
This came up in my feed this morning, I watched this one about a year ago when I was first learning about PLCs for my new job in maintenance. Now a year or so later, I am the guy in the shop designing, building, and programming the industrial equipment we build to help produce plastic slabs and sheets at the company I work for. I had built my own Click PLC learning board with 4 inputs 4 outputs, and my 9 year old would tell me what he wanted the lights to do, and I would build the program to do it. My company felt those skills were worth a VERY large raise, so now my family and I get to enjoy the rewards of that. AvE and a couple other guys on youtube are directly responsible for getting that info out to guys like me. Very thankfull to you and others Ave!!
Right on Evan! Happy to hear you're doing well.
My wife also recently switched from a finger doing the on/off to an electric driven device
Brian A two days ago? You're a time Traveller? Hahahaha 🍄💋💋🍄
I turn mine on often with an electric driven device.
simple on/off control or variable speed? inquiring minds want to know.
Scott Pankhurst Variable frequency oscillation
Jim Alley Nothing a good ol fashioned tap-ee tap-tap can't fix.
Ribbon cables are a pain in the arse because they use insulation displacement connectors. They're very prone to causing intermittent problems that disappear for a while when the connectors are squeezed and reseated. So the pin headers are probably a better idea.
windson7 are you referring to the elastomeric connectors (sometimes called zebra strips) between a chip and a LCD? They mess up if not perfectly aligned, if oils leech out, or contaminants get in (like your skin oils). More info: mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8x-faded-lcd/
Dunno, I haven't really tried it. Plenty of people have to change their broken screens though so search online for guides to change your specific laptop screen.
I couldn't help but automatically read that in your voice.
@bigclivedotcom the date of which this was published has changed to todays date! This is almost a year old! What the !?
Automation Enginerd here - You don't need a special programming cable for those CLICKs - they can be programmed via ethernet just like basically any modern PLC. Makes it real easy to network these guys together or stab it into your favorite Gorilla Machine Interface. Infinite buttons!
Edit: Automation Direct's Cmore Panels are a fantastic little GMI's - Software is also free and pretty damn capable for home gamer's.
Came here to contribute this information. Recently came across Click PLCs and picked one up to play with at home.
Never heard of CLICK PLC before.
@@Bobo-ox7fj Yes, I said I've never heard of CLICK PLC before (in other words before I saw this video).
Ave Im 19 from the UK, and Im an apprentice maintenance technician for Nissan and Im currently doing PLC work, its unbelievable how many there is in the plant running most of the automation. Love the vijeos!
As a Controls Engineer, I have touched nearly all the flavors of PLCs. Ladder might not be the sexiest programming language, but it gets the job done. Most of the platforms will have flowchart, structured text, and function block programming as well. My goto is Allen Bradley, but like you mentioned, that is what I cut my teeth on many moons ago.
Worked at a laundry that had a DynaWash 1000C that was "programmed" with a plastic punch card wrapped around a spinning drum.
Fingers like on a music box would fall into the punched holes and activate different functions like hot/cold water, steam, chemical supply, and the like. Pretty cool to watch it work.
Brandon Obaza my dishwasher works this way spinning wheels and levers with teeth that get flipped calling for the various phases of dish washing.
Nuclear plant operator here: It might be a relief to know nuclear power plants still use old-school relay logic for critical systems. Thousands of relays. It’s a pain testing, maintaining, and modifying this type of logic for dozens of systems, but there’s little worry of meltdown inducing cyber attacks on that shit.
Matthew Ballinger. When theres a bug in the system its not a gift from Anonamoose, its an actual multi legged critter!
You have been upvoted as our new Homer Simpson, sir.
Call it the Galactica solution
There are fail safe PLC systems that are allowed to use for human safety. So if you have a cold system (not online) and it uses safety PLC systems. do you that that is good enough? i mean, coils can burn and contacts can weld.
Matthew Ballinger oh, just weak coils, dirty contacts, busted sockets, loose wires, relays that are hard to find, techs plugging the wrong relay in the wrong socket.
That's all great news...
I think maybe we shouldn't mess with shit that never stops giving...
The way you explain it and show the process of programming makes it so much easier to understand, even a novice cable wrangler like myself was starting to get it.
More plc videos please!
If anyone is interested in ladder then try Soapbox Snap, it allows you to program an Arduino with ladder instead of C++. Comes as a godsend to us visually learned tradesmen who play with PLCs and use the same symbols for our hardware drawings and programming.
Awesome. I will look into that.
Programming an Arduino in ladder? Hell man you may have hust convinced me that those little shits are worth it!
I just ordered a starter kit if soapbox works I'm going to be happy I've been programming PLCs before most of you guys were born.
Had terminal not even dos based software.
Amazingly, the transistor as a concept was developed in the 20s - the field effect type. We didn't have the means to manufacture it so it remained theoretical until 1947 with the invention of a point contact transistor.
Are you telling me aliens from Roswell didn't invent it? Oh the humanity!
Actually that is a misconception perpetrated by Wiki etc. Lilienfield had some lab samples working in the 1930's and I have heard it argued that he had one working at the point of the 1926 patent.
sewing needle through a rusty bottle cap?
actually you can make a diode RF detector like that almost.
Bell Laboratory 'invented' the transistor in 1947, I will always remember, it was the year I was born.....by the late 1950's the integrated circuit was in production....
Ave, I really appreciate this “vijeo”. I am a system engineer. We use application control to identify the communication between these PLCs and SCADA systems for the purposes of segmenting traffic. Until this video, I had never seen a detailed explanation of their inner workings or a demo on how to actually program one of them. Thanks for posting!
No problemo!
I got a call to work on a tailings pond dredge that had four fuel tanks in the pontoons, and used one of the click plc's to keep the dredge level in the water by moving the fuel around the tanks. Needless to say, they don't work to well in -40 in northern Alberta without a heated cabinet. She wasn't choochin anymore.
1quickchevy2 do they use PLC's on those boom canons too? lol
SpenserRoger I don't believe, they are just propane powered. Maybe on the bird scares the make laser/ taradactyl/ alien sounds.
The electrolytic caps frozed up and fuggered the power supply
Ladder logic... Back in the days when I was getting myself some edumacation, I was tasked to use programmable logics to make parts travel on a multi segmented conveyor belt with sensors and such, and it was also said that the location of each part has to be known at all times with as high precision as possible with given sensors. Naturally more inputs and outputs were required than what one PLC had to offer, and as I asked for interconnection cable, I was told that I may not use one. The program had to be returned drawn on paper with ladder logic.
The teacher had some kind of grin on his face when he gave the task to the class, probably thinking that he doesn't have to give anyone a full score.
After realizing that I can't use the official communication bus, I decided to sacrifice one output and input from each logic and use those for communications. I used the other logic as master and the other slave; slave stopping everything and signaling master when something changed, giving the input status to the master logic. Master logic responded with instructions on what to do with outputs. It wasn't Morse code, but still something similar, playing with delays that were available. As we had nice amount of time to use, I tweaked the protocol to be as fast as the relay outputs were able to reliably crank out.
The expression on teachers face was something from close neighborhood of disbelief, as he was checking if my plans worked as required and the part traveled to the slave logic area; there is a small pause in the movement, rapid rattling of relays and part travels onwards, then more rattling, etc.
As I returned the ladder logic program on paper, five (or was it six?) tightly packed papers with ladder logic on both sides, I asked when I can get the papers back. "It might take some time, just leave them on the table". I never saw the papers again, but I got the maximum score for the course.
AvE, the battery/supercap is for keeping the real time clock running so that it doesn't lose time every time the machine is off. Program wouldn't get lost, that one is for sure stored in a flash memory (that big chip at the bottom is unlikely to be an SDRAM but flash).
Also the chip for the serial port is most likely a TTL to RS232 level converter (3.3V -> +-12V that RS232 ports need), the other chip is a transciever for RS485 serial line. Then there is most likely a PHY interface chip for the ethernet too.
Back in the '80s and '90s I wrote PC software that communicated with various different brands of PLC - so many different serial protocols, so many different addressing schemes - they were like snowflakes: all basically the same, yet completely different. Ladder logic might be primitive - but done properly there's a good chance that your PLC program actually does what you think it does, and will continue to do so even in situations you hadn't yet considered, and that's a big advantage when you're controlling something potentially life-threatening.
No surprises, rather safe then sorry.
I wish that Automation Direct would release an open source linux version of their programming software. If they are going to give it away for free why not release the code?
That's why I liked AB software for on line edits you could test before assembling. The old TI / Siemens and Mitsubishi software had no test you did change hit enter and it was done no do-overs.
How to blink a light in 200 swears or less!
John Possum yep ladder logic in a nutshell
@@camtheham13 That's why I prefer FDB than LAD....
The last couple years I've been building controllers for various things using the Raspberry Pi. Ten-amp relays built to directly interface with the Pi are cheap (8 relay board
"all these are, are a one or a zero"... *analog engineer's head explodes*
LADDER LOGIC!!!
The first industrial [manufacturing engineering] job I ever had, in 1976, was working on a styrofoam coffee cup press, privately engineered for speed and efficiency. It was an order of magnitude faster than the then state-of-the-art presses.
The relay logic was of the custom-built electromechanical type in a BIG NEMA box. Nasty rat's-nest wiring behind that clean panel.
The schematic was ladder logic, with about 40 rungs and 60 components.
The sequence of operation was critical to the speed of the press.
I reconstructed from that ladder logic diagram a timing chart, so I could understand what the hell I was working on.
After I'd been there for a week, my supervisor noticed that I was carrying around a 3x5 card with that diagram. Leaving it on my nightstand at home at night. He informed me that it was a proprietary secret that I could be fired for possessing. Worth lots of cash if it were marketed as industrial espionage.
What the hell, I was young and ignorant, but not stupid.
Weird bunch, that Dart family.
I had no idea ladder logic even survived.
Thought it was lost back in the Pleistocene.
A video on when to use a Arduino vs a PLC for a specific project would be useful. Some homegamers might benefit from knowing about industrial PLC, while some people in industry don't need a PLC for for a simple small scale project/test rig
This is just such an incredible video man. I hope you never take these down. Amazing details and explanations.
Just installed one of these two days ago on a Nestal 800 ton press. Monitoring mold open to mold close on the Europmap 67 plug, triggering a 1 second 24v signal. It is all about cycle times. Signal sent to the production monitoring computer. I am actually on the automation side just installing a CBW robot(Utilizes Beckoff PLC). Even after getting my mold intrusion time down to bid time, of course they want another 1/10th or two. All about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$(That is USD, not Canadian)
Chris Rodenbeck
Hi Chris,
I am a Brother in arms, lol.
We run 5 Netstal Evos 3500's doing in mold labeling on thin wall open top packaging.
The IML presses run Waldorf or Mueller robots. We also have 24 Husky's (mostly all with CBW robots).
Nothing over 600T.
We have an old Husky T388 that still has relay logic. It can be a real pain to trouble shoot. Hopefully it is going away soon.
Where are you located?
Well it is a traveling job but I live in Colorado. I work for CBW as a service engineer and we are located in Colorado. CBW was just purchased by Müeller . November of 2016 I actually got to spend 18 days in Näfels Switzerland at the Netstal factory. Wow what a beautiful area.
Chris Rodenbeck
I am the lead maintenance mechanic at Polytainers Inc in Lee's Summit Missouri.
Do you cover this region? It was covered by a guy that quit after 20 years or so.
I know CBW robots and stackers pretty well from a previous stent at Barry Plastics, but presently I have very little to do with the automation unless they get stuck on a problem.
I take care of the molding machines and thermo-forming machines and training new mechanics.
If you are ever traveling in this neck of woods, I could probably set you up with a home cooked meal.
My wife is not a bad cook.
I work for ALPLA .... We will own you all soon enough!!!
Fantastic. I actually have an exam this monday on industrial automation, a good chunk of which involves PLC.
Will make sure to include your wise words
I'm old enough and worked on machines old enough that we started converting our various equipment over to these programmable logic controllers, they definitely tidied up the whole process of calibrating the run parameters. When using these though just remember to Not Piss Off some Government somewhere that has a crack hacker team, you just might find all your machines one day shedding parts like a fragmentation grenade.
Started my first job this month and we're setting up a Mitsubishi PLC with a bunch of different inputs and outputs; VFDs, an HMI, BLDC motor controllers, etc. Programming is a bit of a pain but at least they have a block diagram/ladder logic hybrid option we can use. Plus it's quite satisfying to hear the relays click whenever you turn something on or off. :)
I just learned something from watching an AVE upload..... My college professor might be out of a job.
Wow, very educational! I had never bothered to learn how useful the PLC might be. Usually I just design a purpose-built board, have to get it built or build it myself, do the atmel or PIC programming... I was just about to do an addon for my CNC mill, now I think I'll use a PLC and even replace all the existing relay logic inside the mill. Thanks for your great videos.
This is the only damned channel on UA-cam, where you can smash the like button before you finish the video and know it's good stuff..
I still squeak out a stinker now and then.
AvE New to your channel. Absolutely friggin love it..Thanks for putting up some awesome content..
Brings back memories. Back in the late 80s I designed and implemented a substation tap changer system using two Omron PLCs. The two 33KV to 11KV transformers were about 2 kilometers apart. The PLCs coordinated tap changing communicating with each other using 300 baud modems connected over a dedicated comms cable with high voltage isolation barrier transformers at each end.
Good PLCs were really expensive back then. The special ladder logic software needed a parallel port dongle and ran on a IBM XT PC and worked quite well. There were no problems with USB or drivers as every PC had 2 serial ports and if you got the wiring correct it all just worked.
oh buddy, you can use the Ethernet port to program it without the serial adapter! its faster too
Do you program with the same software? Crossover cable required?
Yet another great video. Went to school and votech for industrial automation, spent two years as an electromechanical tech at a battery factory, currently an electrician at a copper foundry. I've spent a hell of a lot of time with PLCs. They can be quirky, but those powerful little Lego bricks help keep the world turning. Flexible, reliable, relatively small learning curve.
Thing is the old ladder logic will still be running 50 years later on, while the fancy PLC would have been, out of necessity, rewritten at least a dozen times in new controllers, as the old ones turned into obsoletium, and there was no programmer even capable of reading the old program, leaving the new one to be written from scratch from the inputs and outputs the old one had, and a description or tracing of the old code, or old printed copies of the code. Yes the relays and the cam switches are expensive ( $15 each for the ultra reliable cam switches I changed last year, which are still a current part, despite the design being from the 1960's, and the old switches being made in the beginning of 1970, around 30 million cycles past the design life of 1 meeeellion cycles) but they do last longer than the electronic do.Same old motors as well, and a good number of the original Brown Boveri relays as well.
I learned more about how PLCs operate in this video than I did in hours of training and trying to learn it on my own. Thank you! This was a huge help to me.
Programmed a plenty of Modicon some GE, Allen Bradley and some Triconix. Lots of fun, at least the Modicon and Triconix. I didn't care for the others. I have been tempted to buy one of the new cheapie versions of PLC to play with but then I always want some practical use and that kills the purchase. Nothing around here needs control. Sigh. 😢
Yeah maybe. I think most amateur cnc runs on arduinos or something and uses something similar to "C" programming. I have done that also. I have two Arduinos that I used to play with a stepper motor a couple of years ago. I think I got enthused by AVE controlling a spindexer. Someone did anyway but at the time I did not have a spindexer and after burning up a couple of stepper controllers learning I just stopped after I learned how to make it work.
You don't care for Allen Bradley? How can that be? lol
Clint Maas AB will make you go broke just trying to keep the software current!
The click plcs work very well, I have 5 or so running full time
This is true. But IMHO, they are the best for industrial use. I would pick control logix anyday.
Ah, Ladder Logic! During college I worked as a programmer at a company that made SCADA systems, where the automation brain trust contained many folks from the steam era. While they were quite comfortable with modern PLCs, they insisted on everything being documented and reviewed in ladder logic. We even pasted the ladder logic printouts on the inside of the PLC enclosures.
We didn't program the PLCs in ladder logic, but in a custom procedural language that could be exported as ladder logic for documentation purposes. The compiler could also import ladder logic files and convert them to procedural code. One page of procedural code was equivalent to at least a dozen pages of ladder logic.
The thing is, having both representations proved to be very valuable, as some problems that were easy to miss in the procedural code were much more visible in ladder logic.
Nothing overkill about that ARM if you want 100 MBit/s Ethernet.
I work with STM32 like that quite often, and while at first glance it does look a bit like overkill, those chips are dirt, dirt cheap. Any chance we could get the full reference? I'm betting on a STM32F4 something. I think there was a similar one on the Juiceroo by the way.
PS: ST Microelectronics is actually from France, not Japan. Honestly it's not so much about where the components on the BoM come from - it's about who can ship a metric shitton of it to the assembly house the cheapest.
I love how small things are these days and how feature rich and simple they can me. I just got a new job where I rely on a good board with a CAN bus and Ethernet. It is just also fun to be a home gamer and how tons of small and large scale computers and they all can talk to each other.
Probably '429
From the features, the progmem size and the maximum frequency, I guess you're right. I feel a STM32407 would have fit the bill and be a bit cheaper, but it's possible they wanted the crypto hardware for some reason.
I think it is STM32F407IGTx. But they are not dirt cheap. Around USD 7.5 a piece (or even more from places like Digikey). Cheapest Ethernet capable STM32 is a USD 2 point something device. But it is a lower pin count part, so this one is not that.
holy shit this took me back a few years to my ITT Tech days when we had to learn about this. best way i ever found to program lol. thanks for sharing such an eclectic style of programming that not many people know about!!
Sometimes I'd wonder, but never really gave much thought to the O l on a power switch.
Cue AvE with a nonchalant flip of the switch OFF(zero) ON(one) and suddenly it all makes sense.
How the hell did I make it this far in life?
@AvE you can program the click Ethernet plcs over the network, no serial cable needed. The software has everything you need to setup the address on the plc aswell, it also makes a good option for programing plcs in hard too reach locations like behind a milling machine 😉
I've used one of these on a hydraulic hay press, and it's worked great for 3+ years and still kicking. I thought you were going to slam the device, but you didn't! BTW, you can do a math operation in a one liner based on a scan counter to toggle an LED/output.
Post code here? Oh wait...
And to make it more fun, you can put the touch screen HMI into the serial. Now you have a fancy setup controlling 40 year old hardware.
Ah, it wasn't a one liner, been a while since I worked on it. Basically you do a math SD9 MOD 400 and store somewhere in DS (I used DS2) then a compare of value DS2>200 output to Y101.
|SC6| -> (Out) Y101 That's the 500ms on/off bit
It's not mine, I just maintain the machine. It's the same hay moisture content as bailed hay, low. It's not pellets, it's just compressed so the shipping cost is lower. Purchases are usually for rabbits and other small animals.
Bonus points for the single timer flashing. I see so many guys with separate on and off timers that trigger each other and they completely overlook this much simpler and more elegant solution.
PCB board is from the Department of Redundancy Department!
Heh
Along with HIV virus, LCD display, ATM machine and soooo many other verbal atrocities.
Love it, interesting watch. The way you bring it makes the material you are discussing easier to comprehend. Wish I had you as my mentor when I was in school.
The ARM Cortex can only handle input/output of between ground and Vcc (1.7-3.3). Without voltage stepdown logic, 10 volts to the ADCs will result in a thoroughly blown chip. Atmel (Now part of Microchip as you said) offers some higher (5.5-12V) ARM chips, but they still rely on using a Vcc or AREF (analog reference) higher than the voltage being sensed. Great Vijeo as always.
"voltage stepdown logic" is such a such fancy way of saying "two resistors in series"...
English isn't my first language, but I'm pretty sure "series" is the correct word. Wire them back-to-back to GND and high voltage, and get the low voltage between the two resistors.
Gig Anonymous Its cool man, no worries. While you're definitely right in concept, I'm used to overcomplicated terms due to being an enginerd.
Tony, voltage divider is just more specific. A square is also a rectangle (and a parallelogram and a quadrangle) but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square.
Gig, a voltage divider IS two resistors in series, but two resistors in series aren't necessarily a voltage divider.
Man what a throwback!! 15 years ago I was in school using MEDOC software on Mitsubishi FX PLC's. Learned BASIC, C, C+, Python, and 20 other things, got certified in Fiber Optic, trained on Allen Bradley PLC's, passed my certificates for Electronics Technician, and didn't do a DAMN THING with it after school. LOL...... Basically went for nothing, but I still remember it all. I haven't seen these ladder logic programs on basic PLC's in 15 years. Great throwback!
We haven't heard the wild call of the elusive Mr. Bumblefuck in quite some time.
"Focus you fack!"
Just came back to watch the video that got me into PLC programming, now I do it for a living, thanks again AvE!
Really makes you appreciate the Arduino programming interface...
For simple applications PLC's are magnitudes easier to use.
I recently worked as an intern over my winter break, and was assigned a project using CLICK. I took a full month to teach myself the program from scratch. Great video, I just wish it was uploaded a month ago!
Brings back memories of programming PLCs in school. Should have chosen automation😒
Got my BS process control and automation back in '96! While the software engineers were learning 'C' my classmates and I were learning how to talk with PLC's. Those classes turned out to be a valuable asset; PLC programming requires a very ordered and structured thought process. PLC's are a great way to handle many projects that people run to the Arduino for, then spend way too much time interfacing and programming.
I use Arduino because PLCs are expensive.
It ain't going anwhere anytime soon. Still plenty of time to learn!
+Kew
BS is the school level. "BS in process control"
Brings back memories. As a younger man I programmed TI-565PLC to handle two MMI's and 2,500 I/O. The printed output of the ladder logic was 1,000 pages in condensed print. Took 3 months to type it in. Had to use subroutines to keep from consuming all available memory. Neat system, you could hot load program changes while the program was running.
Ladder Diagrams.... Takes me back to Tech Uni.
Survival Russia
I've seen you several times in the comments of many other channels I watch, Lars!
UA-cam must prioritize the visibility of your comments or something, based upon the amount of videos I've watched from you or my subscription to you.
Or maybe it's giving you video suggestions based upon what your viewers are watching?
Or maybe it's all in my head ;P
Anywho, nice seeing you around! Even if I might have been 2 months late...
Hey Uncle B.,
We still have an old Husky molding machine that has relay logic.
When I first started trouble shooting relay logic machines, I had a older maintenance guy tell me that if I ever got stuck and couldn't find the problem, just take all the relays out, put them in a bag, shake and put them back in the press. That that works 90% of the time.
I've never been that stumped, but have been tempted.
Oh come on now...you can use ladder logic to do the equivalent of pumping out a Shakespeare play, and to be fair, you did the equivalent of learning how to type the letter A.
I'm impressed though that you went as far as you did in explaining PLCs and ladder logic. Most people have no clue that that's what's controlling just about everything in automation.
The first clue that someone doesn't have any industrial software experience is when they say "..but Arduino??"
I really like my RedBoard for how much it opens up. It's a similar idea as what's shown in the video but much simpler build to make it more affordable to hobbyist. The one thing I like about those industrial PLCs is that you have modular circuits already in the box ready to drive things with usefully high voltage and amperage. Doesn't require as much boilerplate circuitry to get a project going and has some of the controllers you'll commonly need already implemented (like proper motor controllers).
Love the channel, the information you provide is great! Your terminology is hilarious, workshop chat is funny, ignore the haters!
You are one clever guy!
I've used these in a couple of different applications. To control venting on an industrial air compressor and for an automatic boot washer in a cheese plant.They are great little PLCs and the software is free.
Don't hate on ladder logic too much, i work on ladder, structured text, and function block everyday and I think ladder is the easiest to read and trouble shoot. Click plcs are cheap and work pretty well for what they are. When the downtime costs $1000/min and the GM is breathing down my neck I would much rather be troubleshooting ladder logic than anything else. If you know what your looking for it's fairly easy to find the problem.
Agreed, ladder is very handy for quick troubleshooting, function block is manageable also. Probably all depends on all experience though
I'm a young buck with both I&C and Electronics Tech, but in school I've used ABB and Omron PLCs. Working on equipment, I've seen Siemens and a whole lot of other ones. Think I have a spare one with an LCD kicking around. Software costs a fortune though.
PLC ladder logic is super simple to learn, very basic. Best and most used rung is the start/stop interlock.
Once you get into PID and comparators, it gets really interesting. Using one of these and programming a system by had from scratch, you could start with 100-200 rungs and after 60 hours, you could take it down to 40-50 rungs by combining rungs and eliminating useless ladders.
Programmed a water level tank to control the water level within 10mm using a hydrostatic pressure sensor. Course, you had manual fill and drain valves, so people would fuck with the system to see if they can break it. Tinker with the PID (mainly the I&D enough) and you get the thing to run within 5mm. Got the program here somewhere.
I learnt ladder on Mitsubishi after taking a £600 day course (thanks to the boss) It was no more in depth than what you've just demonstrated in 20mins!. Except I actually understand you better and you're far more entertaining. The PLC training course was so dull... it was like sitting in a funeral parlour while Marvin the robot read a telephone book. Excellent stuff... you played with M-Duino PLCs?
I have used m-duino PLCs - cheap way of doing things, similar to the one in this video and and good for non-critical stuff but it doesn't have a failsafe CPU like the Siemens et al so you can't use them in any safety critical applications without external monitoring or mitigations. What do you think?
I'll admit to any and everyone I know little about EE. Mechanical tons...but after watching your vijeos I am confident to talk EE with someone. Even though I am just repeating what I learned from you. Excellent job AvE
As a programmer, that's actually a pretty neat programming interface. Not that I'd ever touch it, but cool nonetheless.
Sure beats 6502 machine code.
It was the way circuits were drawn when you used REAL relays, contractors, electronic timers , push buttons and so on Each line was numbered so if you had a relay with 4 contacts you could write on the margin by the coil which line each of the relay contacts was located.I have had some diagrams that were on a sheet of paper 6m (20ft) long. Once you get used to reading them they are very logical and very quick to read.
Just a note about the ADC, three channels on the ST means 3 simultanious ADC conversions at a time. Each of those ADC channels also has a multiplexer so that each has many inputs. In terms of things like an Arduino, which has 1 ADC with 6 channels. The ST has 3 ADCs with each having 8 channels or something like that depending on the specific chip features.
A PCB board? I think I've heard of those. Is it like an ATM machine, an LCD display, or a PIN number? Yep, that's right, the RAS syndrome police are here.
You forgot the LED light.
As a programmer, the ladder logic did indeed almost cause me eye cancer. Thankfully you forewarned us - I engaged my safety squints and was able to get through it and still enjoyed the video. 🙂
Thank you for the video!
Fun History Fact: PLCs started with Midicon Controls which was branched off of Andover Controls Corp. which was the first digital building system controller that my grandfather started in the 1970s with Sun Keeper Control Corp. which made heating system controllers exclusively for Sun Master Corp. which was his solar heating company.
"I touched myself and got an ecstatic discharge" --AvE
Glad to see you talk about PLC! As much as I like playing with the little arduinos and stuff, these little click plcs have a soft spot in my heart. They are great, robust little controllers(my oldest click is 5 years old running 24/7). I have build several of these for many little projects around our plant and they are great. And as far as I'm concerned the click programming is years ahead of rslogix by Allen Bradley (though you are a little more limited.)
Love watching your videos keep up the good work.
Santa dew claws is back!
I just started as an apprentice sparky, this channel makes me very excited to advance my knowledge within my trade. thank you
Oh my god, I heard all your warnings about eye cancer and I was like "how bad can it be". I recently graduated pixie wranglin school where I learned C++, Java, and a few other languages.
Can confirm my corneas are fucking trashed
Took a trip down the PLC history rabbit hole before the holidays. Very interesting and we now at the 50th anniversary of its birth. As would be fitting, what became the accepted design was written out by Dick Morley on January 1, 1968 due to a hangover and him being tired of solving the same problem over and over for clients. Later, they ran into the GM request for such a device. Also fitting, Morley supported himself in college working as a machinist.
Note these don't have on/off switches, nor blue screens of death. They just run. GM gave one of the originals back after 20 years of continuously running some process. It's on display at Schneider Electric who now own Modicon.
Morley used to write a column for Manufacturing Automation (he passed last January). I enjoyed this story of how the PLC beat out Digital
"The real test went something like this. Our competition was the PDP-14. It was designed to GM specifications for a controller. I guess GM thought they could design computers as well as automobiles. Stan Schoonover of Landis had early experience with both our Modicon unit and the Digital Equipment PDP-14 and he selected the 084 Modicon (now Schneider) unit as his preferred component. Well! The Digital salesman rankled. Stan held his ground. So the Digital man brought down Ken Olsen to see Stan. At the time, Mr. Olsen was president and cofounder of Digital Equipment Corp. (the Bill Gates of the late '60s). Stan showed Mr. Olsen the 084 setup running a small control problem. The unit had welding cables wrapped around it with the welder being used and it ran fine. Stan then took his Coke and poured it over the 084 - it still ran fine. The experiment also ran next to a huge motor starter. Stan said, "When I can do this to your PDP-14, I will buy some." Mr. Olsen soon cancelled the PDP-14 program.The PLC has two things going for it: ladder logic and good hardware."
We need a back story as to why he's called dew claw
My money is it's because he's a raging alcoholic, they should have cut him off years ago
for extra reliability, sometimes two or more plcs are run in parallel so that if one fails there is another to take over. i worked on a public transit job and there were two systems that were redundant plcs: the emergency traction power cut plcs, and the fire ventilation system plcs.
I think I'd rather write everything in assembly.
It's all in what you're comfortable with.
Sounds like you’re rocking a proper mechanical keyboard in this video! I’m going to guess cherry blue switches by the sounds of it. Skookem as frig. That’s what I use, feels great compared to typing on contact lenses which is what those cheap membrane keyboards are like.
A quick look at Intel Ark, as this interested me to, and you can find their Xeon Phi 7295 72 core on 14 nm architecture. You will most likely fin these CPUs in large supercomputers and server farms as they are not intended for the general consumer. ark.intel.com/products/128690/Intel-Xeon-Phi-Processor-7295-16GB-1_5-GHz-72-Core
One of the craziest mechanical/relay based systems are the old elevator controls. There are relays, things that slide, things that turn, massive adjustable wirewound resistors etc etc. I worked for one branch of GE and we used GE/Fanuc PLC's. We wanted technical info so we could repair our boards but GE Industrial said it was proprietary. We said we work for GE also, they said it's proprietary, we said we work for the SAME COMPANY!. Finally had to get legal involved and had to sign papers that said we wouldn't disclose any of this information to anyone. This was before the internet age.
Good lord you weren't kidding about programming this... now I definitely consider myself a visual learning type and whatnot, but for fuck's sake a few lines of legible C++ (a la arduino) would seem infinitely more intuitive to me than this labyrinth of menus and diagrams I can barely comprehend. Way too roundabout of an approach. I'm literally riddled with cancer-AIDS.
The trick is that you're using the shitty GUI to build a logic diagram. ANDs ORs NOTs timers and other simple functional blocks via emojis, in a loose approximation of how you would literally build something equivalent out of relays. If you're used to and able to think in addresses and library calls, it's hell. But if your used to thinking about controls systems that do logic with wires and relays, it's pretty intuitive. Once you mostly learn to navigate the GUI, that is.
I mean I'm as lazy a bastard as they come so if I'm going to be programming logic gates I'd rather get an FPGA and learn a legit HDL instead of slogging through this
@@ACTlVISION Now picture yourself walking someone in maintenance over the phone who has little to no programming experience and telling them what to look for and change.
Hey there, I've never experimented with PLCs before, and I've been doing this stuff for over a decade now. It's about time, I've just placed an order for some of this CLICK PLC stuff you just demoed. It does look pretty fun to play with. Thanks for the video!
so basically the brain in a 200$ coffee machine that makes 1 cup of shitty coffee from a $5 pod?
edit...I'm phoning my coffee maker now so I can ensure I can get warm brown water after my 2 hr/ 10 km commute from my environmental protection job that reduces consumer waste
edit of edit...actually I install a lot of machines in factories that need this device that operates the order of firing up machines depending on full/ empty, fast or slow speeds depending on product flow, and on or off depending on how many pixies flow according to load.
in the paper die-cutting playground of folder/gluer process machines I had eyes to mount to the trapeze which would time jets of glue right before the first fold. conveyor belt machines are a lot of fun.. I know, this thing could be taught to run all of that shite like x 10,000,000,000... but just the tinkering set-up is such an adventure.. also worked with letter inserters in a junkmail room.. "Winkjet" is one hell of a cool machine. prints different addresses one at a time, switches between envelopes super-quickly. nice look inside of the guts of these beasts.
I learned to program like this in 1999 lol
Great video Ave. Pretty soon were gonna need a best of du-claw's quotes from the back of the garage.
Too complicated, I just hire a crackhead to flip some switches every now and then.
Thanks man! I remembered my own Arduino project about pressure sensors for my air conditioning for my house that I started years ago but didn't finish. Today I made a breakthrough getting it to work. :)
aaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh my eyes!!!!!!!!
Alex Haws my ears!
Just subscribed! Your vidjeos are just brilliant, and also so is your subscriber base, the quantity of pure-gold comments below had me snot-bubbling. Please don't change a thing.
Where is the disable Stuxnet option?
That feature is only available in Israel.
AvE, your not kidon, and there probably like 8200 dollhairs.
I spend alot of my time programming PLC's for my company. Mostly Omron and Allen Bradley. It is something I really enjoy and the ladder logic isn't too bad especially if you understand relay logic
I also program Omron and Allen Bradley and i prefer Ladder Logic. Specially when you have some complex logic.
+1 ladder logic is eye cancer!
Your a smart man partner as an instrumentation tech I can honestly say to you Ave that you’re knowledge about so many different things is amazing and motivated me expand my knowledge in my everyday lite
My IQ is not high enough to understand this. Rick and Morty fans, please talk down to me!
Don't be a Jerry.
Unrelated, i ordered my first pair of Knipex cause of this channel. Thanks!
I cringe so hard every time you say pcb board.
I love the info you share with us, you inspire me to learn on a daily basis. Thank you for sharing your wisdom in a way that is informative and comedic all at the same time! Big fan!!
I worked on those old machines that you had to set dogs and cams while machining. The ol AB's and AC's. That ol WW2 machinery ran pretty true, for what it was.