PILOT CURSING / INSULTING ON FREQUENCY at Winter Haven, FL
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2025
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Kick rocks.
Apparently someone on the ground was commenting (audio not on video) about US cutting off in front of SP on IFR short final. What's your opinion on this?
What does this even mean?
It's a version of Pound Sand. It's a polite way to tell someone to go F themselves. Like the British Bugger Off.
@@andyasdf2078 in the USA you’re basically saying shut up and find something else to complain about
He was called out for being a dick and proceeded to confirm it.
There should be no reason for a ground vehicle to clutter the freq with commentary, unless they were preventing an accident. No need to be the morality police. It’s kinda like honking after the fact.
A possible translation of events for those who are confused... Winter Haven is an uncontrolled (Non-towered) airport, so traffic management is up to the pilots coordination with one another. The single engine Cherokee (N85SP) is shooting an instrument approach to Runway 5, and the twin engine Seneca (N455US) is wanting to land on runway 29. The Seneca crosses over the airport with the intention to join the left downwind to land on 29. I think the Seneca had a case of "get-there-itis" along with perhaps a skosh of entitlement and the instant he heard the words "practice approach" from the Cherokee, he decided that he took priority to a "lowly" practice approach, and maneuvered to land ahead of them on runway 29, crossing the runway intersection, and forcing the Cherokee to go missed (Instrument approach equivalent of a "go around"). A third party on the ground which unfortunately we did not hear audio for, seemingly called out the Seneca pilot on this lapse in judgement and... well, we all hear the guy's reaction. Sadly, egos like this seem pretty common in Florida aviation, I've experienced worse situations/interactions than this and I'm sure many others have as well... rare to hear it play out on CTAF comms though
SUN 'n FUN sounds like a nice event, but that would mean flying into Florida.
Don’t disagree with you. But if I’m the Cherokee I would have just let the other guy land first anyway without even attempting to touch and go. People are dumb and too often that includes pilots flying other planes that can threaten my life.
@@RaysDad We live here and volunteer at the event each year. Have never seen anyone act like this there. Always a good time and decent people.
Except that, being at a lower altitude, he in fact had priority. 14 CFR 91.113 (g)
The lack of traffic calls turning base and final is an issue but it could be due to reception of the recording.
That's how I interpret it also. The Seneca is registered to an address in Indiana, and it's possible the owner was flying, in which case the attitude was put on the air by a certain Timmy D. Hickerson of Greenfield, Indiana.
"Kick rocks, man." Such a polite way to tell someone to fuck off over comms.
I tell them to "go pluck a duck". 😅
@@RandyBaumery-s4i Back in my day, after we wound up the planes, we would say "Pound sand!"
@@RaineStudio I tried to respond but I must have said something that really OFFENDED someone. They had me on 24 hour block. Hahahahaha
"whoa, struck a nerve there, mister top gun candidate".
“I’m from the FAA and I’m here to help you with your language skills.”
I know the FAA prohibits profanity, but I can't find out if aviation radios are under FCC profanity justification as well.
@@BetweenTheBorders retired faa. they are. I would be expecting hearing from FCC over that one.
@@geezerhull if not both
@@BetweenTheBorders They are
When the language is (pardon my) "French . . . "
I was on the ground at Winter Haven and listening on Live ATC when I saw this happen. You could see this developing into a bad situation. To fill in the missing ground communication. The person on the ground told the Cherokee to GO AROUND, fortunately the Cherokee pilot heard this and avoided a conflict. The person on the ground helped prevented an accident. I would have done the same thing if I had a radio. Clearly the twin just barged his way in. Hopefully this person does not come back to Winter Haven again.
KGIF is too nice of an airport for this BS
the 'george soros' of aviation - "I know this is inconsiderate and wrong but I don't care about how others respond to my choices" then bad things happen. I always remember *_"You can't have too many friends"_*
The inconsiderate, profane pilot - I would say "what goes around, comes around" - stand by for karma
He sounded like some knuckle dragger from the sticks.
Oh, he WILL be back. You can hear the entitlement in his voice!
I hope the person on the ground gave the cherokee a number to call.
From the first communication and the tone of the guy you already know who's going to curse 😅.
@@pegg00 Guess what: I'm not american and I'm not living in USA. I don't know much about accents. His tone makes me feel about a grumpy old guy, that's it.
@@pegg00 If you can't discern aggression in someone's tone of voice regardless of the accent, then that's on you.
@@pegg00 Wow, you have issues. The world isn't out to get you, Cletus.
@@pegg00 his tone of voice, not his accent gave it away.
@@pegg00 "The South" isn't a race
N455US could have extended their downwind approach knowing the position of N85SP. To make that left turn and cut him off forcing him to go-around was really unnecessary and poor airmanship. The cherry on the cake was the colourful language he used afterwards.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Take an extra 2 or 3 minutes extend the downwind (his downwind to base and final was super tight to begin with), and maintain safety. What's the big deal?
And then, to top it off, get rude about it when someone calls you out for it.
What a jerk.
Glad I read this. At first I thought it was the IFR pilot who used the colourful language, so I went back and listened.
Could have..but then he wouldve risked losing his 5star djckhead rating…
@@chrisgill1302 Not even sure it would add that long with him having a twin. Plus he said it was a touch and go so he wouldn't have been "in the way " long
For those who didn't understand what was going on:
I think the twin cut off the Cherokee that was already in the pattern and ready to land. This forced the Cherokee to go around. A third party on the ground must have made a comment about it which set off the Twin's pilot.
Yeah, that's what I picked up too. The Twin was just impatient and didn't care what the Cherokee was doing or going to do. Complete disregard for the other pilot.
same thing i gathered
Bet he drives like he pilots. He's the jerk that causes a wreck but doesn't get caught in it, and keeps going.
@@dagneytaggart7707 Yep, he's a truck driver from Indiana.
@@roger0929 I guess trucks aren't manly enough for him unless they have at least 3 different axles.
Nearly had the same happen yesterday at Crystal River. Flew a practice IFR approach. We made 3 calls starting 10 out. Had someone nearly turn into us. He complained about us not flying the pattern, and then proceeded to land while we were still on the runway.
Everyone stay safe out there and keep your heads on a swivel around the non-towered airports. Too many bozos out there.
Wanna share time of day?
that sounds like a report to FAA to me
File a report. That's not okay.
straight ins at non towered can be really dangerous if you're not being vigilant. Folks do reccomend to fly the upwind, and just do the whole pattern. Its 5 extra minutes, and that student solo pilot wont become your mayday
@@nolanturek3295 did you miss where they were practicing IFR approaches? and that they clearly called out on ctaf?
Wish LiveATC had picked up the transmissions from the guy on the ground as well.
There isn't anyone on the ground - it's an uncontrolled / non towered airfield. It's up to the pilots to follow a set of rules.
@@GlensHangar At 1:30 N85SP is talking to a third party, on the ground. I'm guessing another pilot in their plane but not in the air.
@@GlensHangar There was someone on the ground talking.
It was probably a fuel truck, they're constantly going from the fbo to the hangars, and they communicate on ctaf with handhelds.
That would been great to listen to however no need for the pilot's language regardless
The person we’re not hearing was an airport ops car on freq holding short of a runway telling the Cherokee to go around as the Seneca was no longer making calls to prevent an impending collision.
So, the final traffic announced their final approach for 5, then the twin chimes in and makes a short approach to land 29 cutting off the landing traffic with no apparent call for base or final.
Classy.
For those who haven't been following the strings of responses, It's worth noting that N455UA didn't fly anything remotely resembling a standard traffic pattern. He crossed over midfield at 425 ft, then flew a teardrop maneuver that placed him on short final. I'm pretty confident that if ha had crossed over the field at 1000 ft, actually entered a downwind, then a base leg, that when he turned final, the Cherokee would have been closer to landing that the Seneca.
Infront of an aircraft already on an approach that was communicating with im....
Absolutely. The Seneca had a terrible “pattern entry”, a terribly abbreviated downwind and a god-awful base/short final “thing”. The Seneca was just flying and doing exactly what he wanted exactly when he wanted with zero position awareness. Good on the cherokee guy for staying ahead of everything. That guy in the Seneca is going to get somebody killed.
I was thinking he did a short approach to beat the other traffic, but this is so much worse...
Thanks for the clarification. I thought the video must've been sped up!
91.113: Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, ... When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
@@sfixx There may have been some dead air cut out of the recording, but I don't think it was shortened up that much.
The straight in/practice approach aircraft (5SP) was super clear on intentions for the approach and touch-and-go, which they were already established on when the other aircraft (5US) made their first call (at 1 mile out which is a tad off from the FAA recommended 10). Each call from 5SP reiterated touch-and-go. 5US overflew the airport and entered directly into downwind, when the FAA recommended is to overfly 500 ft above highest pattern alt and teardrop into the downwind, which allows much great visibility. Instead 5SP flies a tight pattern and lands on an intersecting runway to the one 5SP was on short final for, intending to do a touch and go.
If the practice approach was just going missed, maybe this would be fine- though still unnecessarily close IMHO- but blasting into the pattern, flying a super tight pattern, and landing right in front of landing traffic on a different runway... was saving some fuel and hobbs time really worth the added risk?
Then again, snarky comments on radio rather than the one pilot just saying something to the other pilot, not helpful. And then aggressive profanity in response, just as unprofessional of an airman as the way he entered the pattern and created a conflict.
5SP- the straight in- did a good job visually checking traffic/runway after the practice approach... switching from heads down flying instrument reference to eyes outside and scanning for situational awareness. Their awareness and going missed is what de-escalated this.
SP had a great attitude and kept his cool, basically laughed the hotheaded jerk off, and he's absolutely right. US has a problem with his attitude and he'll definitely be an accident case study some day. Hopefully we'll have the audio to prove why we shouldn't waste tears on him then.
NCC-1701-D Lives Again!
Thank you Katie (85SP)
It's bad enough driving in Florida let alone dealing with crap like this while flying. Impatient clowns can be very dangerous.
man, its scary that people with those attitudes and egos are allowed to fly, if thats how they are flying something, imagine how they are driving...
Agreed 100%
It’s worse than you think.
That very pleasant fellow piloting the Seneca was found by Indiana Civil Rights Commission to have “constructively discharged” an employee because he was black. Captain Happy was ordered to pay the employee $70,000, cease and desist from subjecting employees to a hostile environment because of race, cease and desist from denying employees available work because of race, and to attend a professionally developed seminar in cultural diversity approved by the Commission.
In other words, dude’s not just an idiot. He’s a racist idiot.
@@andrewjosepholson You don't think the court system can be manipulated? You race baiters are the scum of humanity.
@@andrewjosepholson There is a difference between the two?
Big deal . There’s tons of junk planes with drunk trash pilots in the sky
I think the big take away with aviation communications is to stay professional. Between ADS-B out, recorded conversations, and N number lookup database, you will be outed. Best get on the ground and report. ENR 1.16 Safety, Hazard, and Accident Reports
Agreed, and anyone can look up N455US. Timmy's fortunate that all but a small fraction of the aviation community are civil and rule-followers by their nature.
@@ChimpWithACar I’d hardly call doxxing civil.
@@sithticklefingers7255exactly, you misread my comment
14 CFR 91.113
Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
Pinnacle of pilot professionalism.
GA pilots are not REAL pilots
@@Ehnosphere Let's hope you can identify their radar signal. From the comment you just wrote there's going to be bits of two airplanes falling out of the sky next time you fly too close to one!
@@DarkVoidIII what does my comment have to do with bits of airplanes falling out of the sky?!?
@@Ehnosphere Woooosh, right over your head.
@@jonasblane2157 Above the Ehnosphere, so to speak
You see this a lot as type A personality pilots get up in years, and begin to subconsciously cover up their eroding skills and early dementia with anger and lashing out at other pilots. The crux of the matter is that a lot of these guys no longer have the mental firepower to change plan A to B or C anymore, and stick with plan A, and won't admit it's because they are unable to process the information anymore and make corrections. That's why the major airlines have mandatory retirement age.
All airlines have a mandatory retirement age, not just the Major Airlines. Retirement is mandatory at age 65 by federal regulation, even at the very smallest regional airline.
Marchdragon: pretty harsh commentary. Hope that is not correct. At what age would you take a person's pilot license?
I don't know why, but telling a guy to kick rocks just seems like such a powerful comeback! XD
Less insulting than, lets say, bite me?
But how does it stack up to "pound sand!"
far more powerful than the STFU he iterated as well, im sure the FAA is going to be talking to both of these guys.
@@CapStar362 the cranky guy will undoubtedly make a name for himself (and not in a good way, he probably has one already) within and without the ctaf that he's not being a nice person to fellow pilots.
I had a college professor who's use the term "eat rocks". It wasn't very intimidating, we'd all LOL at him everytime he'd use it
Timmy D. Hickerson in Greenfield, IN owns the offending aircraft
Must have cussed his wife out too:
"..The following actions were filed recently in Hancock Circuit Court:
Aug. 1, 2015
In the matter of the marriage of Timmy D. Hickerson and Catherine E. Hickerson, domestic relation..."
If the Cherokee pilot was on a 3 mile final, he was probably at around 1000 feet on the LNAV, lower than what the twin would have needed to overfly the field at. He was more than likely lower than the twin even when 5US was on the downwind making him lower in the sense that if the Cherokee was cut off by 5US, the twin would have violated 91.113 to get ahead of the Cherokee, whether intended to or not.
Maybe its a twin thing. We had a Cessna 421 owned by one of the wealthier people on the uncontrolled field barge into the pattern where myself and another AC was doing touch and go's, and decided to pattern for the opposite runway since there was no wind and his hangar was on the end of the runway he decided to land on. What further complicated the issue was you had left pattern for one runway and right hand pattern for the opposite due to topography. Luckily we were past midfield downwind, but it certainly caused a WTF moment followed by some cursing and figuring out what to do next.
This is the same attitude for fast single engine airplanes too, Mooney, Bonanza, and Cirrus.
2 > 1 hey?
How did I know it was going to be grumpy even before I heard him?😂
Entitled voice tone from the getgo
And perhaps the video title?
wow this is going to be a classic
Florida's best pilot
@@Hunterminez The Seneca (N455UA) seems to be based in Indiana.
I don't know much about aviation, but I do know a lot about radio. On the amateur radio bands, if we use that kind of language on-air, then we could face sanctions by the FCC and even lose our license and have our radio gear seized. I assume similar restrictions apply to radio frequencies assigned to aviation. It would be one hell of a way to lose your license with a drop of an F bomb.
I wonder if he had any idea his comms at an uncontrolled were being recorded like this. I hope he gets a a fine or written warning. He needs to be knocked down a peg, egos like that get people killed daily.
The penalty for cursing on air can be a fine or imprisonment or both. It's a big deal. A local guy near me got let go from a volunteer fire department for it.
"Under 18 U.S.C. Section 1464, “[w]hoever utters any obscene, indecent, or profane language by means of radio communication shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”"
So…. Haven’t spent much time on 7.2 have ya
I know this is taught, but can you cite a single case of anyone being disciplined for simply cursing in the last 30 years? Constitutionally, I am not clear the FCC can do anything about it. We've certain seen them try to respond to a few instances on TV and the courts shut them down.
@@kcgunesq I was first licensed in Boise, Idaho. There was a man there who owned a 2m repeater on top of Shaffer Butte. His license was revoked because of his abusive language on-air. It has been about 27 years ago, and I cannot remember his call sign now.
Thanks to the power of the internet we know that the possible, perhaps even likely, source of this bit of air rage is a certain Timmy D Hickerson of Greenfield, Indiana.
Thanks for the research.
His name, age and business are all over this thread.
An adult named Timmy? That’s something.
Who appears to be a truck driver! 🤣
@@lewisdudchock7133 See that they responded to it. Apparently Hickerson Transport isn't owned by Timmy anymore
I thought I was listening a VATSIM conversation. 😂 But seriously, as a recently retired airline pilot and former flight instructor with tens of thousands of hours I'm always disheartened to hear this type of stuff happen. How somebody talks on radio weather in a controlled environment or non-towered environment, how we as Pilots sound on the radio and talk is a direct reflection of our piloting ability. 2:25
Hey did you fly out of Allegheny County Airport in Pittsburgh? My Uncle flew a King Air for Consolidated Coal, a few hangars down back in the 60's and 70's. I have a picture of the Heinz JetStar on the apron at Allegheny County from 1969...
Don't insult VATSIM like that. ;D
Amen, brother! Maintain situational awareness and deconflict. I was a motor officer for many years. My instructors always emphasized “ you have to drive for everybody else, too.”
How we speak on the radio is a “direct reflection” of our skills? Only a dickhead would say that…
@@derkazar7145most the people on VATSIM are hella nice from my experience.
Everyone in the central FL aviation community is tense right now. there was a fatal midair collision between a Polk State student/CFI and seaplane at KGIF a few months back. Anyone who flies that area already knows the Cub did callouts, while the seaplane was lake-hopping without comms.
Attitudes like this are everywhere there, and all the lakes around Winter Haven giving off glint make KGIF one of the most unassumingly dangerous airports in the region.
RIP Faith.
Went to school at polk state. One of the first students to graduate from the program. So sad to hear of that and we went accident free for 10 years.
I was over the practice area in Apopka(near Winter Garden) few weeks back and a sea plane just came out of nowhere with no ads-b or radio calls. They do this kind of stuff all the time here. One time and only one time, I heard a sea plane make a radio call and I was shocked!
Seems the old man didn't give a crap what the other dude was doing and just went ahead and landed anyway.
I mean, the older I get the more I have to piss, so bathroom is priority. :D
This guy's info is already floating on this thread. He's 66.
I'm probably never going to fly a plane, but when I see a learner driver, I give them extra space and patience instead of forcing my way ahead of them
I see how 5SP might have been blocking up the freq with whoever he was talking to, but jeez, what an attitude 5US had. What’s wrong with a quick “please stop blocking the freq with your conversation”?
Edit: I heard 5US was called out by the silent guy talking to the single for cutting him off on his approach. Would it have been so hard to extend a downwind to give the guy on the approach some courtesy?
100% all on 5US. Aware of other plane on approach, in a rush and flies the shortest fucking downwind, obviously wasn’t paying attention or didn’t care about the other aircraft’s position past that point and lands anyway. Then gets called out from someone the ground for being a dick, and then subsequently confirms he’s a dick on frequency.
@@ifirekirby7498 I couldn’t agree more!
@@ifirekirby7498 It would have been nicer to have asked "want me to extend my downwind a little?". But 5US already sounded a bit crabby on his first transmission, maybe not in the mood to extend this courtesy.
Thanks to live ATC and the magic of the internet now everyone knows he’s a dick too! I’ve noted the tail number just in case I ever run in to the guy. Maybe hand him some rocks to kick.
@@ifirekirby7498 He didn't fly anything which could be reasonably considered a downwind. Or a base. Looking at his ADSB track on FLightRadar24, he crossed over the runway intersection at 425 ft, then did a teardrop maneuver to a very short final. That's now he went from a mile north of the airport to being on the runway before a plane that was already on final.
Twin should have just extended and let the single do the touch and go. The single was reporting inbound long before the twin entered the pattern. That twin had a lot of chutzpah assuming he wouldn't get T-boned upon landing with a guy already established on the intersecting runway.
About what you would expect from a guy who owns a trucking company in Indiana. Flies like a trucker and talks like one too!
Hopefully trucking shuts down and you starve, so you can appreciate truckers a bit more.
He no longer owns that company.
We landed shortly before and observed this event. Winds were strongly favoring 29. Landing traffic was using 29. Ground vehicle operator had no business commenting on traffic situation with handheld radio, which the Seneca pilot was responding to. Five minutes before this happened the same ground vehicle abruptly cut across the middle of the runway as we were on very short final. I am a CFII and will say shooting practice approaches directly into busy traffic is not a good idea. Would have been ideal to teach a circling approach into 29.
Thanks for the context.
Seneca was still acting like an idiot, from what I've seen in the other comments. Crossing the field for an extremely short pattern at
@@realulli wind was 15kts out of the west. No reason to shoot the RNAV 5 downwind. Have you guys considered he may have gone low to avoid a conflict with the traffic going around on 5?
Who’s else looked up the Seneca tail number registration?
A lot of people. LOL
I had a similar situation with a Baron. Was making all my calls and saw a Baron turn towards the downwind for the crossing runway and didn’t think anything of it because I was already on base for my runway. There was someone departing the area so I thought maybe it was that traffic. Next thing I know a ramp agent is calling me to tell me the Baron is also on short final for the crossing runway when I see him basically at the same point in the approach as me now. I went around because it was obvious now that the Baron wasn’t on frequency and we both walked away just fine.
i guess the guy in the truck was talking shit on the twin for cutting him off. twin driver thinks he can land on a crossing runway from the downwind before the guy on a two mile straight in at approach speed haha.
Agreed...5 mile, but still.
No the guy in the truck did not make any remarks to the twin from what I heard. He told me that the twin was cutting it in short and he saw a pending collision. I was aware of what was going on but he just confirmed it for me. I was already planning to go around. I was below tree line before I heard from the guy in the truck. He was a great help. We're just trying to be safe man. There's nothing wrong with that.
@@flyingmusician1018 oh he had a right to be saying it. twin guy just didn't like being called out.
without the planes being highlighted during their transmissions i have a seriously hard time following along with who is who
😂 green is single engine, purple is twin. The first 30 seconds of the video the plane talking is highlighted, and the other one is grayed out. This channel does good videos just pay attention.
Language notwithstanding, this is one of those situations where common courtesy goes a long way. Obviously the Seneca was lower/closer/established but it is just so much easier for someone not ifr (or practice ifr) to just do a 360 on downwind or sometimes extend the downwind. Cost you maybe 5 minutes and avoid all the conflict. Personally when i encounter those situations I just exit the situations. My instructor once told me “it doesn’t matter who was right if you’re both dead.”
I'm not sure where you get the notion that he was "established" or even closer. According to the ADSB tracks, at the time the Seneca was directly over head the field, the Cherokee was on a 1.4 nm final to Rwy 05. It is an incredible stretch to say that an airplane which is crossing over the field and hasn't even joined the downwind for his intended runway of landing is "more established) than a guy who is on less than a mile and a half final.
first, any aircraft especially a twin is supposed to cross the midfield 1500FT AGL, For pattern clearance and to spot winds, this guy flew over at > 500AGL. “careless or reckless operation”. Then again in the right of way rules Any aircraft lower than the other, established on final, etc has the right of way with the regs SPECIFICALLY OUTLINING that you CANNOT abuse the “lower than the other” to justify cutting somebody off on SHORT FINAL. two regs broken plus FCC violation of misconduct on the radio. Which is probably another REG he broke aswell.
2:02 whoever the hell this is, that was perfect timing 😂
Great exchange, love the old grumpy guy’s accent and the young guy’s comeback.
😎😉
A real class act. Maybe retirement would suit him better.
One of the reasons I sold my airplane two years ago. At my non towered airport, once a month there was something like this. KAVQ was a great place for Phoenix flight schools full of barely English speaking students to practice everything. Like making right turns in a left traffic pattern. Assuming that a practice GPS approach gave them the right of way.
It’s only a matter of time.
This is like drifting a car into an intersection to park in the middle while the other guy was planning on parking there so he had to go around. Lol dude straight up cut him off. That was an aggressive turn into the runway
Since the Ifr traffic was planning a touch and go, I would imagine the winds were not too terrible. Why didn’t the twin just plan on a left downwind for 5 and land number 2?
the dude in N455US, one Timmy D Hickerson, needs the number to call....
Why at an uncontrolled airport are more than one runway in use ? That has to create confusion on approaches.
Wasn't there recently a fatal mid-air in this area? I'd expect pilots to exercise more caution.
Yeah there was. We share the same frequency in Apopka and there is always something going on in Winter Garden.
The funny part is he makes the call when he is a couple miles from the airport and communicate with the guy when he’s flying over the airport and getting ready to enter the downwind for 29. But afterwards he doesn’t report when he’s turning base and he doesn’t report when he’s on final for 29. Just goes to show he made an immediate U-turn to try to land before the IFR pilot.
Sounds like Timmy H (or whoever was flying his aircraft that day) has a sense of entitlement....
💀 CFII based on FL East coast here, flying to KGIF, KCGC, KVNC, KOBE, KDED, and F45 is THIS CONSTANTLY with this kind of pilot demographic. It’s part 61 mania out here, stay safe everyone and keep your head on a swivel 😭
Practically a daily occurrence at the uncontrolled field where I learned to fly. We'd be in the pattern with a couple others banging out landing after landing and some dick in a twin would arrogantly blow it all up with a straight-in approach.
If the twin is making calls starting at 10 out, there is no reason room in the pattern can't be made by all parties, especially if you're flying a small single. I let faster planes get in front of me, I don't want them running me down. I fly the pattern slower than their approach speed.
Or they could just join the pattern. But you do you.
@@billstevens3796 sounds great, let's be a holes and make everything harder just because.
Been happening for +50 plus years. Big planes, big egos.
Same thing happened to me two years back. 310 made his first call on a five mile final as I was turning base for the same runway. I called the base turn. And then final.
Twin Cessna 1234 going around “ for safety”. Was his next call. A CFI that I happened to know.
Two months ago he landed gear up in another 310 with its new owner as a ME student.
For an unmanned airspace, there are not many position calls. When I’m on my own, I usually call only downwind and final, but if there is someone else circling around, both usually call all positions.
I know the FAA as a government institution is ineffective in everything it does, so nothing will be done about this, that's even if they were to end up learning of the situation which again is doubtful but I'd love for this guy to lose his license for a bit.
Well, Trump or DeSantis would just give it back to him in 2025 since they don't care about the law or the constitution.
§ 91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
It’s clear who’s at fault here. I would have reported it to the FAA.
This just in, Florida Man is flying an airplane....
Florida Man Competes For Darwin Award
They just had a mid air collision at this airport back in march too!
He’s a tough guy on the radio but wouldn’t say a peep face to face
If the pic I saw of him is accurate, he's a short little chunker. Typical Napoleon complex.
We have had this issue with daylight ifr approaches i usually ask em u planning to do a missed or land so i can adjust my downwind as needed no need to do a 7 mile final for someone doing a missed
But our runway is 4000 feet before the other runway so no conflict if u land correctly
I think we are quite literally missing some context/voices here?
Immediately responding by telling him to kick rocks is hilarious.
That is definitely a "ME FIRST" Trump supporter….😂
Probably more a Mike Pence supporter since he's from Indiana but really not much different.
N85SP was on his final to do 'touch and go' and there comes the narcissistic pilot of N455US, who wasn't even in his circuit yet, who then butts right in and puts SP on the defensive by having to do a missed approach. I'm sure N455US knew the runways intersected.
I knowthis is a funny interaction but this airport is fucking awful to fly in all these old timers that bust into the pattern...the fact that he has a radio is a plus...most of the time no calls they just hope right it
Yeah the Cessna bobs popping in on no radio calls is the best. I remember watching a division of H-53s have to wave off for one. They made calls from 15 miles away. This guy made none. Legal? Sure. Stupid of the Cessna? Holy shit yes. They were not happy
I did my CFI training at GIF, just a constant beehive of activity, especially with the seaplane base just west of the field. Head absolutely needs to be on a swivel there, good on the Cherokee for staying vigilant.
Someone needs to call the FAA on old Timmy.
Funny enough that his trucking company has a google review about how reckless one of their drivers were. Wouldn't be surprised if it was him driving that day.
@@l3ubba308 FAA is *much* more serious than the normal cops, though...
@@l3ubba308 He no longer owns the trucking company. Writing bad reviews is only hurting the innocent people still working there.
@@jetroar17 I never left a review. The review was left prior to this video.
I lived a mile from this airport from 2013 to 2022...I figured there was occasionally some tension above me. I used to enjoy watching all the activity.
Willing to wager a steak dinner that US's other ride is a crew cab and he drives it just as obnoxiously as he flies his twin
NO BET!!!!!
But I'll bet it's lifted and he's got aviation stickers all over it.
@@mattz1230”My other truck is a Seneca”
The Piper Seneca (N455US) is in the wrong here, he knew the Cherokee (N85SP) was already lined up for Rwy 5 on final, he was XWind for Downwind, and should have extended his downwind accordingly. Just because you are in a bigger & faster plane does not mean you get to dictate who lands at an uncontrolled airfield.
Ran the reg on AviationDB, ran the owner on Google, comes as a truck driver, so...
surprising, truck driver owning twin engine plane,
@@geddon436 It was more like, truck driver, swearing, not suprising ;)
Winter haven a wild Time. Did landings there all time when I taught and lots of older aviators who don’t care. Deland too! Plenty of near misses there
Airline flying is fun and all but GA is where my heart is at just for situations like this. This is where the fun and entertainment is at, not on ATC frequency lol
Lol glad you enjoyed the entertainment (85SP)
Pilots have enormous egos - A&P/IA
I believe that's proper decorum,.. In FLORIDA 🤤
I'm so happy I have my own airstrip! Once though, a neighbor's cat ran in front of me on takeoff. It jumped, about 6 or 8' high and 15' at least distance, and cleared the plane.
Pretty sure it's illegal to swear on an open frequency like that. So not only is the FAA going to be arching its eyebrows at this guy's flying, but the FCC has an actionable case against him. Hope they throw the book.
To prefae..I'm an aviation buff. Had two military ATCs in my family. Also have a friend who flew prop jobs for an air courier and got his twin jet rating and flew corp jets prior to retiring..
Anyway, here's my question. Is there an authority to report pilots who blatantly break the rules of good airmanship?
As a Finn 🇫🇮 who has never been to the US 🇺🇸 yet, I was just wondering if that was an example of a so-called "Florida Man". 🤔
Most people living here are "transplants".
Well, the idiot is actually from Indiana while the other pilot is from Florida. Of course, Indiana is just as fascist as Florida is these days.
No the foul mouthed jerk is from Indiana.
The question is...will Dan Gryder have the BALLS to take on Seneca (N455US)?
Do incidents like these instantly get someone’s license removed permanently? I hope it does.
No. It's just bad radio etiquette. At an uncontrolled field, it's just an unspoken rule that is policed by other aviators. At a controlled field, however, you'd be getting a phone number to call at the minimum. The problem though is the CTAF is most likely shared by numerous other airports that are well within comms distance of each other, so EVERYONE flying into and out of all those airports gets to hear it.
Honestly nothing will come from it sadly. Unless you piss off a controller or have video/concrete evidence that pilot negligence is in play then at worst he will just get a slap on the wrist if 5SP submits a report
@@Theonedjneo Yeah, what I figured unfortunately.
There was no incident. One guy landed properly and the other guy got upset because they didn't move out of his way and he had to abort his landing. Oh and there was some guy in a truck making trouble.
Strictly speaking, using profanity on the airwaves is an FCC violation, but a report would be ignored.
Way to be sure, btw, that the FCC takes note of your transmission. The owner of the FCC licensed radio station-the plane-will have to throw you & your instructor under the bus (assuming that’s what’s going on) to avoid a rather large fine. I assume you don’t have a Restricted Radio Telephone permit, either. Few do, but it’s required. If not, that doubles the fine. Fits of pique seldom play out well on the radio.
Radio permit isn't required in the US
@@NolanSnoeyink yes it is.
@@RadioFree-Saigon I’m a flight instructor and can assure you it’s not required. Only required when flying internationally
@@NolanSnoeyink 2nd this here. The only time I needed it was when I flew in the airlines.
The requirement for a radio permit was removed decades ago in the US.
I bet the FAA blames Trent Palmer for this.
Trent has his own personal issues.
the guy from the pickup truck should have given him a number to call :D
I could tell who was going to be the angry guy before I even got to that point in the video.
I can tell by the accent he's a local grovebilly, they aren't the brightest folk
Triggered much?
Well, the guy fired an employee just for being black so probably yeah.
Definitely saved for yuck-tube if/whenever they mouthoff to me again 😂😂😂😂😂😂 ❤ the end (rocks) 👍🏼😂
By now Timmy D. Hickerson of Greenfield Indiana has gotten himself spread all over the internet today..............
Name is perfect. Now on the internets for posterity. Or would that be posteriority?
I'd be interested to hear CTAF calls from a little earlier to establish how far out these two were when making their initial calls. 3 miles is a little close for an initial call, especially when practicing an IAP (5SP). 1 mile out is entirely too close to be making an initial call, especially when crossing over the field to get into the downwind (5US). When able, listening to CTAF at least 10 miles out and making an initial call 5 miles out is standard.
My initial assessment is that 5US purposefully and selfishly undercut 5SP. 5US did not cross the field and tear-drop to enter the pattern at TPA. He either [1] bombed in over the field at TPA (dangerous) to immediately turn downwind, or he [2] actually overflew the field at 500' above TPA, but then chopped and dropped while in the downwind (also dangerous) to get in first.
5US should have overflown the field 500' above TPA, made visual contact with 5SP, continued on heading for at least two miles, performed a teardrop while descending to TPA, and reestablished visual contact (if lost in the turn) with 5SP prior to entering the downwind.
And for the record, the ADSB track for N455US shows that he crossed over the at 425 ft, then entered a teardrop maneuver to put him on final.
@@andrewalexander9492 I wouldn't call what 5US did a teardrop maneuver per se, more of a 'non-standard rounded turn to get where I want and damned be the safety of anyone around me' maneuver. 😆 A proper teardrop (in this case to the right), would have aligned 5US for a 45 degree left downwind entry for RNY 29.
@@davidparis2690 Yeah, teardrop might not have been the best description. Anyway, it wasn’t anything resembling a normal traffic pattern. I’ve got nothing against a nice tight base and final, but if the purpose of that is get on the ground in front of someone who was already on short final for an intersecting, knowing that you’re going to create a collision potential, forcing them to go around, that’s serious dick move.
Florida Man has taken to the air...
Jerk is from Indiana
And this is why I hate flying into untowered airports
Moonshine pilots
I stopped going to fly-ins because of others with lousy radio skills and poor airmanship.
I have a stereotype that (ALMOST) always is accurate, I don't like to prejudge people but there are an abundant amount of elder people in the aviation community that think they're better than everyone else and all the newer pilots. They usually fall under the baby-boomer generation so I call them Boomer-Pilots. You'll find the boomer generation is like this in all aspects and communities. I completely understand that the GenZ and GengX are fail generations but I feel as if these certain boomers and judging the whole generation as that when it's not the case. They're grumpy and want it their way all the time. TRUST ME when I say I have had a fair enough fair with this "Boomer-Pilot" Breed.
Like just because Orville Wright was your CFI and your examiner doesn't mean you're better than me XD
I’m Gen X my dude, and I happen to think that Gen Zers are the best generation this country has seen in a long time. Gen X and Baby Boomers love to bitch and moan and are unable to look into the mirror to see how rotten they (we) are.
Fortunately for you they'll all be dead soon, and your world will be ruled by people who don't know the difference between boys and girls.
I watch a lot of these videos and maybe somebody on here could answer a question for me. What does it mean when the controller says I have a number for you to copy. What does he mean by that? Are you in trouble? Who is that number four
Man.. you guys are just brutal to us. Especially those that dont know the full story behind this situation.. i tried to find this clip awhile ago and then one of my close friends sends this to me. Lol cant believe i made the drama content section. 😂😂
So what was the full story?
@@Forward-t7x You need to scroll up. He gives more details above.
This guy is the type to rip your bumper clean off and say it was your fault
As a controller I can say one of the top 5 things that needs to be fixed asap in aviation is an age limit to flying. There’s been MANY situations where old people have been very dangerous flying in my airspace at all 3 airports I’ve been at around the US.
Age of that pilot is 66. What age should we stop flying?
Sort of reminds me of what happened in salinas or Watsonville over a year ago I think, Guy flying the pattern, making his calls and some old dude in a fast moving twin comes barreling in and collides and kills everyone in both planes and they were both communicating with each other. Sad.
@@smithnyiu There needs to be cognitive testing at every opportunity for license renewal, for both cars and planes. Cognitive decline can begin at much earlier ages than people realize.
@@SmolAliens OK I agree with that. Your original post said age limit, I misunderstood.
@@smithnyiu Retirement age for Air Traffic Control is 55 - it seems that they have good reason to keep it that way as it hasn't been amended even with their current staffing issues. I would be in favor of some form of cognitive testing past the basic BFR requirement starting around this age. Or at least improve upon the BFR, make sure that pilots are thoroughly meeting private ACS rather than a pencil whipped review that seems to happen all too often now.
FYI, the plane owner's registration is public.
TIMMAAAAAAAAAYYYYY