@@TheBackyardProfessor Oof, yeah. Can't imagine having to try to fight it in person. It seems they think that not giving an answer is worse than giving a bad answer.
@@countryboyred I probably wouldn't have stayed, but it would have delayed me leaving a bit. The church convinced young me that I was straight, but that was bound to crash and burn.
I don't even go to any church anymore but for some reason I can't stop watching this series. It's a breath of fresh air when a religion applies logic and common sense to correct itself. I don't think members of any church are even remotely familiar with what their own holy books teach because if they were, they'd all leave.
When I was learning about communism in high school, I remember telling my seminary teacher that the law of consecration sounded like communism. He responded that it absolutely wasn't, and that there were some important differences, but that he didn't have time to go into it. He never did 😂
Even the Book of Mormon talks about how the nephites, after Jesus’ visit, “had all things in common”, which might sound well and dandy, but the hierarchical system gives way to corruption. Lots of it.
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3 ESV
@lc5666. He would still have to be a plagiarist. But YT has a platform for that now, too, using AI to publish your own books accumulating other peoples' work. 🤣🤣
@@jasonshults368 hey that's my new boyfriend. He's going to be running in to a big fortune and everything that I just have to send him another 10K this week and then I'll be able to do it he's been in a lot of trouble been in jail hasn't shown up at the airport when I went to meet him different stuff that's what bad luck my poor Nigerian prince has
In listening to today's program, boy have my eyes been opened even more. I've been a member for 34 years inactive the last five. A lot of the things I've listened to today I was never told as a convert. If I would have heard many of these things I've been listening to the past few days. I most likely wouldn't have joined the church. It's obvious that Joseph Smith in this case in the name of God, foretold prophecies of things to come to suit his own self. And tricking the saints into following him in the name of "God said this and revealed this to me so on and so forth " if those early saints could somehow be alive today. I believe they would say what in the heck!! Why did you trick us and steer us down this spiritual road in the name of the Lord. It's a shame, I for one am feeling better about becoming inactive the last 5 years. Although this was not the issues why I became an inactive. But why would I want to be part of a church that's founded on such disbeliefs.
And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 ESV
Joseph knew the writings of Old Testament better than theNew Testament . Not surprising to see him parallel that same personality for HIS REVELATIONS OF HIS BOOK. Ergh!
I suggest “No Man Knows My History “ by Fawn Brodie and “RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman. Both are accredited and documented. I I am looking forward to reading “The Joseph Smith Papers”. Still too expensive for the average member.
Do not be afraid - I view as taking courage. To have courage. Courage is implies action. Take courage to do what is right, and in this case for you to discover the truth, to whatever end that may be. Even if it is to leave what you know, because we all know that takes courage!
I grew up sda and the parallels between the American religions that were created during the second great awakening are astounding. I can definitely see many similarities between egw and Joseph Smith.
Fear of the lord has been defined as a sense of awe and submission to deity. When a prophet fails to prophecy, he is not entitled to the “fear” of anyone. Oaks and others demand that members have awe for and submit to leaders although they do nothing prophetic aside from having a title. Even the sense of awe is manufactured in music “we thank thee o god for a prophet” and in the tradition of standing when one enters a room.
I am binging these videos and this one is blowing my mind. I could see how other cult leaders put the failed prophecies on the members. I NEVER realized it also happened in the D&C. What a load of crock! I also feel quite stupid and betrayed and duped. These are amazing. Thank you for all your hard work. It's been life changing.
Interesting how the other cults started around the same time / location and therefore excused. Jesus and Revelation warned about false teachers / doctrines that are contrary to the Bible. It's easy to refute the false prophets when put to the Bible, however; we're also warned that in the last days even the elect will be deceived. The Bible also states that nobody knows the date and times.
Many will come and say I am the Christ. Is Jesus saying that he is not the Christ or that other people will come and say they’re the christ. Also why was Jesus in the woods alone with a naked boy?
1:20:48 i love this series and it’s been wonderful for me, i just want to note that slings were and are surprisingly powerful and a skilled user could certainly break a femur with one
My friend's grandson recently received a mission call. His parents and family were really excited and his mother had friends and family guess where he would be called. Guesses included France, England, Brazil and Hawaii. The great day came and his mother announced her son was called to serve in-------wait for it------ Baltimore, Maryland! Needless to say no one guessed correctly. Can you imagine that the parents who cannot really afford the mission are going to be paying through the nose for two years for their son to languish in Baltimore while the Mormon Church hordes its hundreds of billions of dollars and becomes even wealthier by billions of dollars? It's times like this that I wish there really were a Hell to send these sanctimonious jerks for eternity.
SAVE YOUR SON..... DON'T LET HIM GO THERE.... REMOVE HIM AND HIDE HIM OUT OF YR CULT. PUT MONEY IN YR SONS POCKET AND ENCOURAGE HIM TO GET AN EDUCATION AT LEAVE YR CULT, SO THAT HE LIVES IN FREEDOM AND HE MAKES HIS OWN CHOICES, AND NOT OTHERS MAKE CHOICES FOR JIM: I PRAY GOD YR SON DOES THAT : & HE BE SAFE !!
I am so sorry you do not have the intelligence or honesty to speak of how beneficial it is to this😘young missionary to be able to serve a mission where the Lord needs him, and he will not be far from home!!! God Bless him and his family !!!
5:39 Here's the full quote from Russel Nelson on choosing to believe: ..."choose to believe in Jesus Christ. If you have doubts about God the Father and His Beloved Son or the validity of the Restoration or the veracity of Joseph Smith’s divine calling as a prophet, choose to believe and stay faithful. Take your questions to the Lord and to other faithful sources. Study with the desire to believe rather than with the hope that you can find a flaw in the fabric of a prophet’s life or a discrepancy in the scriptures. Stop increasing your doubts by rehearsing them with other doubters. Allow the Lord to lead you on your journey of spiritual discovery."
As far as failed prophecies I've heard something quite the converse. I heard the failed prophecies of the JWs were devastating to their numbers initially.
I had no idea JS had prophesied the year Jesus would come back. I guess it makes sense because lots of religions have done so, so we couldn’t stay behind.
I'm sure at 54:00 in regards to the temple lot property. The Lds church has already offered the "Church of Christ" mormons enormous dollars to buy that land, and the Church of Christ, "temple lot" mormons will not sell! I ordered a reprint of the book of Commandments and a book of mormon according to their publications. I hope that church holds out as the last bastion of what mormonism probably looked like in 1835! At least In Missouri! I'm not sure what changes they have made over the years... I want the temple lot church to hang onto that property and let's you me,.John Dehlin, Mike and Nemo the mormon go for a Sunday!
@@Maisiewuppp more for the sake of historical curiosity. Also in my experience comparing denominations helps break down conditioning, although the podcasters probably don't need help with that.
Joseph Smith's Involvement with Magic, Masonry, and the Occult PART II by JANIS HUTCHINSON 04/24/07 The following summarizes the comparisons between the Masonic Legend of Enoch and Joseph Smith's story: 1. Enoch is shown the hill Moriah in a vision. . 2. Joseph Smith shown the hill Cumorah in a vision 1. Enoch is shown a hidden treasure. 2. Joseph Smith is shown the gold plates. 1. Enoch's treasure includes a gold plate with engravings. 2. Smith's gold plates are engraved. 1. Enoch's marble pillar is carved with Egyptian hieroglyphics. 2. Smith's plates are engraved in reformed Egyptian 1. Enoch's marble pillar tells the story of the treasure. 2. Smith's Book of Mormon tells story of the gold plates. 1. Enoch erects a brass pillar which tells the history of creation. 2. The Book of Mormon includes brass plates containing the five books of Moses.(58) 1. Enoch writes the history of the Tower of Babel on the marble pillar. 2. The Book of Mormon contains the Book of Ether, a history of a migration from the Tower of Babel. 1. Enoch's brass pillar has a metal ball on top which has the power to direct. 2. The Book of Mormon tells of a brass ball, the Liahona, which acts as a compass. 1. Enoch foresees a world-destroying flood. 2. Joseph Smith receives a revelation of the Book of Moses, giving an account of Enoch foreseeing a world-destroying flood.(59) 1. Enoch predicts that after the flood, an Israelitish descendant will find the treasure. 2. The Book of Mormon foretells an Israelitish descendant having the same name as Joseph of Egypt, who will find the treasure. Joseph claims to be the predicted descendant, even going so far as to give himself the code name of "Enoch" in his revelations. (60) 1. Three masons obtain the treasure after three attempts. 2. Smith tries to take the plates and is only successful after three attempts. 1. Three masons are witnesses to the treasure. 2. Smith arranges for three witnesses to the plates: Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. 1. Solomon's treasure contained the gold plate, a brass pillar and record, the High Priest's breastplate, the Urim and Thummin and a metal ball. It also contained the Tetragrammaton, the name of God. 2. Smith's treasure consisted of the brass plates, gold plates, the Urim and Thummin, the High Priest's breastplate, and a metal ball called the "Liahona". The plates claimed to be from God. 1. The three masons note that the gold plate gives off enough light to illuminate the cavern. 2. Smith claims the Book of Mormon plates light up the cavern in the hill Cumorah. 1. Enoch's treasure is first hidden in his own cavern, and then later transferred to the hill Moriah. . 2. The Book of Mormon story states that the plates were first kept in a hill called Shim, then transferred to the hill Cumorah. 1. King Solomon allows only a few to see the treasure. 2. Smith allows only a few to see the plates. 1. Enoch's cavern is covered by a large stone with an iron ring. 2, Smith earlier claimed the plates were in an iron box, but later said it was stone. 1. Enoch is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the treasure. 2. Smith is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the plates. 1. King Solomon changes the status of his underground cavern from secret to sacred. 2. The Mormon temple ceremony is declared not to be secret but sacred.
So check this out. I've had recent discussions where I point out that scripture says if a prophet gets a single prophesy wrong they're a false prophet. I was immediately condemned by the mormon as misinterpreting and twisting scripture in the work of Satan. Furthermore, I was told only Jesus was perfect so I can't expect perfection from prophets. There was no response when I pointed out a prophet isn't speaking about his own opinion, but is transmitting God's words and last time I checked, God, even mormon god, IS perfect. The hoops apologists have to jump through to avoid the glaring truth. Like you guys said, "Faith is the belief in what you can't see, not inspite of what you can."
Wouldn’t it make more sense from a divine perspective to convert the gold from the gold plates after the word was translated and put on paper? If God’s church needed money bad enough to go treasure hunt in Salem why wouldn’t he use the gold he supposedly already had?
All things considered, shouldn't the Doctrine & Covenants come with a subordinate title? "The Doctrine and Covenants: A Special Collection of Failed Prophecies." That's always been the essence of that book in my estimation.
Why didn’t you expand on the death of David W. Patten? He died in the Battle of Crooked River, an action which further evinces the violent nature of the early Mormons.
I always took the attempted sale of the BoM copyright in Canada as evidence that Joseph Smith's original (money-making) idea was to get money from being the author and proprietor of a best-selling book. The book proved to not be a best seller and, in desperation, Joseph Smith decided to salvage the situation by trying to sell the rights to the book to someone who maybe would be able to turn it into something profitable. Then that didn't work...so the next big plan was to use the book as a prop in connection with setting up and leading a church. Of course, if God was really involved and had any foresight at all, the solution to Joseph's future financial problems was quite obvious, given the fact that at one point there was an entire stack of pure gold equivalent to several pounds of gold that could have been used to cover expenses rather than just gathering spiritual dust in heaven (now) or being hidden away (then).
The Mormons care for their own and if they help you, you better have good reason for needing help. When I was a Mormon from 1974 to 1989 in Utah, if people were hungry that were not members of the church, you ignored them or you took it upon yourself to help out. I remember dropping off big boxes of food including a frozen turkey's during the holiday season. Knocking on the door and driving off quickly was my method of operation. I never knew the people that needed help personally. It just seemed like the decent thing to do. I'm now 75 years old and value The Commandments more than any church and the Messiah who kept the law (given at Sinai through Moses) perfectly.
I remember being taught the following: 1. The government was destroyed because the party in power was the Whig party that collapsed. 2. Communism failed because it was Satan's counterfeit version that was Godless. I can now look back and see how those don't really make sense, but I accepted those excuses at the time.
In early scripture wherever it says to "fear" GOD etc, in most cases it means to "trust" ... Basically it is saying to believe. Not literally to be afraid.
@@patricianoel7782 yes, that is correct. Do you respect anyone that you can't trust? Also just to reinforce, we use capital letters when we mean to be making reference to The CREATOR. Because using lower case could mean anything a person worships such as belongings, money, a car. Etc, lower case is associated with idols. Idolatry.
incorrect., Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling I can give you many, but Fear is the beginning of Wisdom, and it means just that, FEAR Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
@@MrInfoPhilly sorry to burst your bubble in trying to discredit me. In fact I am not incorrect. If A child trusts the parent when told not to put their hand in the fire so they won't get burned. That child won't get burned if they obey and respect that parental advisory. Yet if the child is curious and goes against the advisor then of course said child will suffer burns. Now, you can call it fear of the fire or the consequences of not listening and heading the advise. Or you can call it trust that what is said or warned is accurate.
In the "Pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked away" prophecy, Smith blunders in a way that VERY few will notice. Many misguided Christians today do the same from false teachers like Scofield and his followers which is to unwittingly mash together prophecy events from two separate and distinct future events. They are the sword, famine, and pestilence (plague in some Bibles) of the tribulation, versus the hail, earthquakes. and other geophysical events of the Day of the Lord, such as darkness, the moon becoming as blood, lighting to the ends of the earth, the stars falling, blood rain, and the wicked being destroyed. These two separate prophecies are known to be separate from Jesus' own words in Matthew 24: 29-31 which show that the Day of the Lord's geophysical events are separate from and after the tribulation events. But Smith blunders right into a very common mistake of poor Bible scholarship, and lists them together in a mash-up. Thus Pestilence (tribulation), hail (Day of the Lord). famine (tribulation), and earthquake (Day of the Lord) will sweep the wicked away (Day of the Lord). In short, Smith in his counterfeit version creates a three-dollar bill.
After the Jehovah witnesses gave up on actual dates, they say it will happen after the death of last person who was alive when Russell T Hayes, was alive, and now it’s after the last person who dies, of that generation. Similar but different, to the Saturday’s warrior idea.
I remember that movie about Brigham Young's exodus to Utah. The LDS fold made it to Utah, they had their crops planted and were waiting for the harvest. Unfortunately a plague of crickets descended on their crops. Luckily a flock of seagulls just happened to be in the hood and the seagulls saved their crops.
Hill comorah. I thought that when they dug the holes for the poles for the lights for the first pageant held there they found arrow heads by the bucket full and supposedly the church has them in salt lake. At the history building. I believe I heard/saw Rod Meldrum say that. In a heartland video. Either him or Wayne may...
On canonization … Talk about cutting thru a 💎diamond…but my “mind” is so pained as we all are resistant to undoing these tentacles in our minds…because I have so wanted this “true” church to be all it intangibly offers for my tangible time and free labor and very tangible dollar$$$$$$$
Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - a measuring rod for testing prophet and branding as false prophet? An overly critical attitude and strict application of anti-Mormon critics using Deuteronomy 18:20-22 may reject even true biblical prophets and apostles, and even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, like the Atheists do proving the Bible to be false using this approach or technique againts Christian Ministries in attacking bible prophecies and making the Bible as fraud. If Deuteronomy 18:20-22 is a standard measuring rod or criterion for testing a failed prophecy to make one a false prophet then: • Was Moses a false prophet if Hebrews 7:11-12 is correct that the Aaronic Priesthood is not eternal, then Moses in Numbers 25:13 where he said in the name of the LORD that Phinehas his grand nephew would hold the priesthood eternally is false (Note in verse 10 “the LORD spake unto Moses saying,”)? In this particular example, Moses fills the requirement for the test of biblical prophets of Deuteronomy much more closely than does Joseph Smith in most of the examples of “False Prophecies” cited by Atheists. • Was Jesus a false messenger of the Father in Matthew 10:23 that His Second Coming would occur before the disciples returned from the uncompleted mission of which he was sending them in as the verse reads in the Revised Standard Version: “When they persecute you [the disciples] in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say unto you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of Man comes”? • Was Isaiah a false prophet for stating in Isaiah 13:6 that “the day of the Lord is soon at hand” and that he prophesy the destruction of Babylon (see Isaiah 13:1, 19-20) yet Babylon was not even conquered until 539 BC a century and a half after Isaiah while it’s destruction came even later? • Was James the apostle a false apostle for stating in James 5:7-9 that “… the coming of the Lord draweth nigh… “the judge standeth before the door” yet Jesus has not come to judge and reign? • Was Zephaniah (in the days of King Josiah (see Zephania 1:1) a false prophet for stating in Zephaniah 1:7 writing of the destruction of Judah that “the day of the Lord is at hand” and that “the great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and it hasteth greatly” (see Zephaniah 1:14) yet the Lord did not come nearly a century before Judah was taken captive by the Babylonians? • Was Joel a false prophet for stating in Joel 1:15 that the day of the Lord is at hand and that the Lord cometh for it is nigh at hand (see Joel 2:1)? • Was Peter a false apostle for stating in 1 Peter 4:7 “but the end of all things is at hand” yet obviously “all things” have not yet ended despite a nearly two millennia since those words were written? With the Biblical prophecies and terminologies above, how do Christian Ministries respond to Atheists criterion Deuteronomy 18:20-22 like they used to Joseph Smith in his prophecies? Will they use a double standard?
Prophets were called by God, to warn and wake up the people because they had strayed and were about to face destruction. They didn't have permanent Prophets.
About that passage concerning being afraid of a prophet, my guess is that they use the word "afraid" because, 9 times out of 10, the "prophet" is always prophesying about some kind of horrific doom. So when one of these "prophets of doom" predicts some kind of horrendous thing happening before a specified date (if the people don't shape up and do what the prophet tells them to do) and that date comes and goes without incident, it's safe to assume that in this case it's a prophet of doom who's just firing blanks (a variation of the boy who cries wolf). No need to be afraid of a doomsayer who's constantly wrong, even though there is always a possibility that the doomsayer could be like the proverbial broken clock that is exactly right two times a day. Closely related thereto is the phenomenon of vaticinium ex eventu (back-dated prophecies) in scripture, designed to basically create a "real prophet" through a fictional reworking of history and reordering of chronological events, necessitated by the fact that prophesying an event AFTER it already happened is always less impressive.
I looked for the Millennial star edition that talks about the US Government being broken up etc but on the digital collection in BYU, page 455 of vol 22 is not showing. No matter what i do, it jumps from 454 to 456. :/
And lo, the prophet George Carlin said, "What's the point of having a divine plan, if some schmuck with a $2 prayer book can F up your plan? If it's God's plan, and he's going to do what he wants anyway, what's the point of praying?"
The really pathetic thing here is that all you need to have a false prophet is ONE failed prophecy, and in Joseph Smith Jr we have many (several) failed prophecies. Excellent episode guys.
Joseph's Myth could have predicted Mookie Wilson's ground ball going through Bill Buckner in the 1986 World Series and still been a false prophet. Deuteronomy 13
Topics like this always remind me of that famous statement that David Whitmer attributed to Joseph Smith: "Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil." Of all of the things witnessed and reported by any of the original "witnesses", this is probably the most valuable. I would say that if you remove the first clause and the third clause, we get the most accurate description of Joseph Smith's calling and mission that has ever been uttered, although one is tempted to believe that the third clause may possibly have some relevance too.
I will pay as I go. Hopefully yall can translate and get.this.out in other languages. My best buddy from boliva is listening in english but it would be great in Spanish
GOD SAID THAT IN THE LAST DAYS MANY WILL DEPART FROM THIER FAITH EVEN THE VERY ELECT ( THE VERY ELECT ARE THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST AND AFTERWARD THEY DENIED IT.. THEY HAVE NO GLORY, THEY WILL GO TO THE KINGDOM OF THE DIVI BECAUSE THEY CHOSE IT.
They’ve been saying it’s been the last days since the time of Jesus.. 2000 years later and everyone throughout those years have said it was the last days. They let wars go on because the book says it needs to happen.. it’s disgusting
When the faithful Saint crossed the plains to the salt lake valley died in freezing conditions and no food.. I always wonder why God blessed the Israelis with mana from heaven but didn't do the same for the faithful saints
I have no affiliation with the Mormon church. But I have deep respect and admiration for these people, who went so far and experienced such hardships for their faith. 1:23:28
Unfortunately regardless of how angry and threatening in “prophecy” they are just a pale reflection of the Hebrew Bible story of Abraham. Kind of like you call yourself obedient ? Would you take your son to sacrifice because that is what Abraham understood was being asked of him. If I were him it would be a slam dunk truth that Hashem the lord of Israel who’s declared them special among all men would NEVER ask this. I’ve been at three or four reformed temples which TRY to explain this story…. To quote Tevya from Fiddler “there IS no other hand” it cannot be explained away. The Spanish Inquisition justified itself in part by Abraham
Re: economic efficiency: is it efficient that the vast majority of people work bullshit jobs their whole lives when we know everyone's mental capacity is about the same?
I have heard, from an always reliable source (whose initials are H.G.), that the top leaders of the church have a standard greeting that they give each other, particularly when one or more of them is heading out to speak to the members of the church: "May the farce be with you!" Once, when Lucy Harris asked Martin why he was willing to follow Joseph Smith, Martin replied: "The farce is strong with this one." It could be that they're just speaking after the manner of the inhabitants of Spanish Fark.
Oh, we know all about Ron Meldrum. He even came on John's podcast to be interviewed. What a joke. Here is the first part. ua-cam.com/video/JoAoeUjnISc/v-deo.html
Hardly a great resource. He is a marketing guy who has found a niche way to make money off of a select group of gullible people. Pseudoscience at best, no proof of anything, even some of the specialists which he refers to say Ron misinterpreted their data.
Mound City Group Museum, Hopewell Cultural National Museum Park, Ohio History Center, Smithsonian Museum, Coshocton Ohio, Norton Mound Group, King Mound Kentucky, Michigan Indian Artifacts, Indian Mound Artifacts Florence City, Dr. Charles Metz, Cincinnati Museum, Wayne May, Rod Meldrum, The Ancient Giants who ruled America (book), Arkansas Museum, Hill Cumorah Museum, The Lost City of Zarahemla (book) just to name a few of the findings, research and researchers, and evidence. Misinterpreting the data is a personal opinion.
@@resonnezforward2071 I'm not suggesting there were no mound builders. I'm sure there are fantastic museums that explore, explain, demonstrate, etc the Native American history of the area. But trying to connect that to the Book of Mormon, and suggesting Ron Meldrum is some kind of authority on this is where you are getting off track. He has no formal education in geology, archeology, biology, history, etc and yet his marketing education has really helped him find a way to make money off Mormons who really want to see evidence of their beliefs.
Wayne May also believes the Book of Mormon happened in North America. Their findings make sense to me wether they make profit on it or not. It makes sense to me, since I have read the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants several times.
Religions are for control of the people of God. They control through, shame, guilt, & fear! We don't need man to intercede, in our relationship with our Father! Get out of man's churches! We have a direct path, with our Father. He Loves us so very much! I Love our Father with all my heart & soul! Pray for knowledge of the truth & for discernment, in order to recognize the truth. I Love You All! 💕🙏 🥰🙏🏾♥️
My understanding is that the notion that the only things that really, definitely, certainly and always count as the word of God are pronouncements that have been unanimously endorsed, approved and confirmed by the 15 top leaders and have been canonized...is a notion that itself has never been canonized or even expressly endorsed, approved and confirmed unanimously in any statement jointly issued by the 15 top leaders.
Your comment is hard to understand. Just know that that sentence has come nearly from all churches at this point, not saying latter-day saints are wrong. I'm just trying work this out, G-D Bless! ❤
Joseph Smith at one time worked for a company that paid workers to search for Gold. So Joseph probably thought he could find gold as well. He was just looking for a way to pay off debts. I can’t blame him. The Lord however was referring to the gold and silver that the people within the membership would offer. So to me this was not a failed revelation at all.
Great video by the way guys! But i would like to add, is that when they are talking about in the OT aboout fearing the Lord. It's not the same thing of being scared of Him but to be in awe of God of Universe, to be in adoration of Him.
The Pope sent a representative to the Irish Bishops to scold them for the cover up of child abuse by the clergy in Ireland. It was known even then that this same cover up was happening world wide, under the directions of the Pope and top hierarchy. How in Christ like!! How hypocritical.
At 1 hour 7 minutes and 30 seconds. You said it was a good thing Joseph didn't lead his people into a slaughterhouse however how many souls has he led to hell still today? Jesus said whoever adds or takes away from my words will be put to death. Revelations 22:18-19 kinda funny he was killed huh? I'm sad because they made a false prophet a martyr and to this day he still leads people to believing that works gets you into heaven not faith by his blood... I hope he enjoys the plagues of this book. He is condemned by it now.
I loved how you guys destroyed FAIR on the failed Salem prophecy! Absolutely powerful!
The failed prophecies of the D&C were the catalyst for my leaving the church in 2017. I’m glad you did an episode on some of them. Great job!
FAIR Mormon is great. They helped me leave the church by providing worse arguments than my own personal ones.
As one of the original founders of FAIR, I can say the horrible apologetics they allowed helped me step away and quit with the nonsense
@@TheBackyardProfessor Oof, yeah. Can't imagine having to try to fight it in person. It seems they think that not giving an answer is worse than giving a bad answer.
@@countryboyred I probably wouldn't have stayed, but it would have delayed me leaving a bit. The church convinced young me that I was straight, but that was bound to crash and burn.
@@countryboyred Doing great. Past all the pain and am now just entertained by all the drama and stories.
I don't even go to any church anymore but for some reason I can't stop watching this series. It's a breath of fresh air when a religion applies logic and common sense to correct itself. I don't think members of any church are even remotely familiar with what their own holy books teach because if they were, they'd all leave.
When I was learning about communism in high school, I remember telling my seminary teacher that the law of consecration sounded like communism. He responded that it absolutely wasn't, and that there were some important differences, but that he didn't have time to go into it. He never did 😂
Even the Book of Mormon talks about how the nephites, after Jesus’ visit, “had all things in common”, which might sound well and dandy, but the hierarchical system gives way to corruption. Lots of it.
Sounds like my parents whenever I asked questions regarding the church
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3 ESV
If only Joseph Smith would have chosen to be a novelist instead of a religious leader.
Oh, he tried that. But no one in Canada would buy the copyright to his BoM ! 😆
He was the book of Mormon, d&c and the pearl of great price
@lc5666. He would still have
to be a plagiarist.
But YT has
a platform for that now, too, using AI to publish your own books accumulating other peoples' work. 🤣🤣
Did nobody at the time notice that ALL the prophecies were designed to benefit Joseph?? Today I think he'd be an Internet scammer.
It does seem like Joseph Smith's real goal was to find the most gullible people on earth and bleed them dry
Spot on Teresa
@@jasonshults368 hey that's my new boyfriend. He's going to be running in to a big fortune and everything that I just have to send him another 10K this week and then I'll be able to do it he's been in a lot of trouble been in jail hasn't shown up at the airport when I went to meet him different stuff that's what bad luck my poor Nigerian prince has
For real
*crypto scammer
In listening to today's program, boy have my eyes been opened even more. I've been a member for 34 years inactive the last five. A lot of the things I've listened to today I was never told as a convert. If I would have heard many of these things I've been listening to the past few days. I most likely wouldn't have joined the church. It's obvious that Joseph Smith in this case in the name of God, foretold prophecies of things to come to suit his own self. And tricking the saints into following him in the name of "God said this and revealed this to me so on and so forth " if those early saints could somehow be alive today. I believe they would say what in the heck!! Why did you trick us and steer us down this spiritual road in the name of the Lord. It's a shame, I for one am feeling better about becoming inactive the last 5 years. Although this was not the issues why I became an inactive. But why would I want to be part of a church that's founded on such disbeliefs.
You 3 are amazing with all your research!! Please keep it up!!
If a man tells you he speaks for God, grab your wallet and run. Do not pass Go and do not collect $200.
Don't forget your wife 😁
And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:21-22 ESV
Amen
Missouri sounds a lot classier than it actually is when Nemo says it. 🤣
We are pretty hip
@@countryboyred 😂😂
Now that was funny!
People are sheep, and those people who are not sheep should not be surprised by the herds roaming aimlessly.
Joseph knew the writings of Old Testament better than theNew Testament . Not surprising to see him parallel that same personality for HIS REVELATIONS OF HIS BOOK. Ergh!
Can we please get a series that provides a detailed biography for Joseph Smith 🙏🏾
I suggest “No Man Knows My History “ by Fawn Brodie and “RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman. Both are accredited and documented. I
I am looking forward to reading “The Joseph Smith Papers”. Still too expensive for the average member.
Excellent.. thank you all you are amazing.
Thank you John, Nemo, and Mike for another excellent, eye-opening episode! Love this series!!
Thank You Dr. John for yet another educational podcast. I am hooked🙏❤♥️
Amazing ministry, praying God opens the eyes of the blind to help bring freedom
Do not be afraid - I view as taking courage. To have courage. Courage is implies action. Take courage to do what is right, and in this case for you to discover the truth, to whatever end that may be. Even if it is to leave what you know, because we all know that takes courage!
Great episode!
I grew up sda and the parallels between the American religions that were created during the second great awakening are astounding. I can definitely see many similarities between egw and Joseph Smith.
Then there's scientology. How can people believe these ridiculous ideas?
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
I would love to see a list of how many times the Second Coming has been foretold.
How many religious traditions? End of times is one of the flavours of human existence.
Fear of the lord has been defined as a sense of awe and submission to deity. When a prophet fails to prophecy, he is not entitled to the “fear” of anyone. Oaks and others demand that members have awe for and submit to leaders although they do nothing prophetic aside from having a title. Even the sense of awe is manufactured in music “we thank thee o god for a prophet” and in the tradition of standing when one enters a room.
I am binging these videos and this one is blowing my mind. I could see how other cult leaders put the failed prophecies on the members. I NEVER realized it also happened in the D&C. What a load of crock! I also feel quite stupid and betrayed and duped.
These are amazing. Thank you for all your hard work. It's been life changing.
Interesting how the other cults started around the same time / location and therefore excused. Jesus and Revelation warned about false teachers / doctrines that are contrary to the Bible. It's easy to refute the false prophets when put to the Bible, however; we're also warned that in the last days even the elect will be deceived. The Bible also states that nobody knows the date and times.
Many will come and say I am the Christ. Is Jesus saying that he is not the Christ or that other people will come and say they’re the christ. Also why was Jesus in the woods alone with a naked boy?
Thanks!
1:20:48 i love this series and it’s been wonderful for me, i just want to note that slings were and are surprisingly powerful and a skilled user could certainly break a femur with one
My friend's grandson recently received a mission call. His parents and family were really excited and his mother had friends and family guess where he would be called. Guesses included France, England, Brazil and Hawaii. The great day came and his mother announced her son was called to serve in-------wait for it------
Baltimore, Maryland! Needless to say no one guessed correctly. Can you imagine that the parents who cannot really afford the mission are going to be paying through the nose for two years for their son to languish in Baltimore while the Mormon Church hordes its hundreds of billions of dollars and becomes even wealthier by billions of dollars? It's times like this that I wish there really were a Hell to send these sanctimonious jerks for eternity.
Missions are the same expenses know matter where you serve.
There is a hell, and people that take advantage of the unwitting will definitely feel it’s effects.
Latest estimate of withheld info for years is $150 billion.😳Tithing. I think not.👎🏿
SAVE YOUR SON..... DON'T LET HIM GO THERE.... REMOVE HIM AND HIDE HIM OUT OF YR CULT.
PUT MONEY IN YR SONS POCKET AND ENCOURAGE HIM TO GET AN EDUCATION AT LEAVE YR CULT,
SO THAT HE LIVES IN FREEDOM AND HE MAKES HIS OWN CHOICES, AND NOT OTHERS MAKE CHOICES FOR JIM:
I PRAY GOD YR SON DOES THAT : & HE BE SAFE !!
I am so sorry you do not have the intelligence or honesty to speak of how beneficial it is to this😘young missionary to be able to serve a mission where the Lord needs him, and he will not be far from home!!! God Bless him and his family !!!
5:39 Here's the full quote from Russel Nelson on choosing to believe: ..."choose to believe in Jesus Christ. If you have doubts about God the Father and His Beloved Son or the validity of the Restoration or the veracity of Joseph Smith’s divine calling as a prophet, choose to believe and stay faithful. Take your questions to the Lord and to other faithful sources. Study with the desire to believe rather than with the hope that you can find a flaw in the fabric of a prophet’s life or a discrepancy in the scriptures. Stop increasing your doubts by rehearsing them with other doubters. Allow the Lord to lead you on your journey of spiritual discovery."
As far as failed prophecies I've heard something quite the converse. I heard the failed prophecies of the JWs were devastating to their numbers initially.
They lost over a million members after the 1975 prophecy failed
I had no idea JS had prophesied the year Jesus would come back.
I guess it makes sense because lots of religions have done so, so we couldn’t stay behind.
I know of some outstanding members that have second houses in Missouri to be “ready”…
I'm sure at 54:00 in regards to the temple lot property. The Lds church has already offered the "Church of Christ" mormons enormous dollars to buy that land, and the Church of Christ, "temple lot" mormons will not sell! I ordered a reprint of the book of Commandments and a book of mormon according to their publications. I hope that church holds out as the last bastion of what mormonism probably looked like in 1835! At least In Missouri! I'm not sure what changes they have made over the years... I want the temple lot church to hang onto that property and let's you me,.John Dehlin, Mike and Nemo the mormon go for a Sunday!
Why bother hanging on? It’s a complete fiction from start to finish, a pseudo religion.
@@Maisiewuppp more for the sake of historical curiosity. Also in my experience comparing denominations helps break down conditioning, although the podcasters probably don't need help with that.
The flds are probably some of closest to what it looked like.
Joseph Smith's Involvement with Magic, Masonry, and the Occult PART II
by JANIS HUTCHINSON
04/24/07
The following summarizes the comparisons between the Masonic Legend of Enoch and Joseph Smith's story:
1. Enoch is shown the hill Moriah in a vision. .
2. Joseph Smith shown the hill Cumorah in a vision
1. Enoch is shown a hidden treasure.
2. Joseph Smith is shown the gold plates.
1. Enoch's treasure includes a gold plate with engravings.
2. Smith's gold plates are engraved.
1. Enoch's marble pillar is carved with Egyptian hieroglyphics.
2. Smith's plates are engraved in reformed Egyptian
1. Enoch's marble pillar tells the story of the treasure.
2. Smith's Book of Mormon tells story of the gold plates.
1. Enoch erects a brass pillar which tells the history of creation.
2. The Book of Mormon includes brass plates containing the five books of Moses.(58)
1. Enoch writes the history of the Tower of Babel on the marble pillar.
2. The Book of Mormon contains the Book of Ether, a history of a migration from the Tower of Babel.
1. Enoch's brass pillar has a metal ball on top which has the power to direct.
2. The Book of Mormon tells of a brass ball, the Liahona, which acts as a compass.
1. Enoch foresees a world-destroying flood.
2. Joseph Smith receives a revelation of the Book of Moses, giving an account of Enoch foreseeing a world-destroying flood.(59)
1. Enoch predicts that after the flood, an Israelitish descendant will find the treasure.
2. The Book of Mormon foretells an Israelitish descendant having the same name as Joseph of Egypt, who will find the treasure. Joseph claims to be the predicted descendant, even going so far as to give himself the code name of "Enoch" in his revelations. (60)
1. Three masons obtain the treasure after three attempts.
2. Smith tries to take the plates and is only successful after three attempts.
1. Three masons are witnesses to the treasure.
2. Smith arranges for three witnesses to the plates: Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer.
1. Solomon's treasure contained the gold plate, a brass pillar and record, the High Priest's breastplate, the Urim and Thummin and a metal ball. It also contained the Tetragrammaton, the name of God.
2. Smith's treasure consisted of the brass plates, gold plates, the Urim and Thummin, the High Priest's breastplate, and a metal ball called the "Liahona". The plates claimed to be from God.
1. The three masons note that the gold plate gives off enough light to illuminate the cavern.
2. Smith claims the Book of Mormon plates light up the cavern in the hill Cumorah.
1. Enoch's treasure is first hidden in his own cavern, and then later transferred to the hill Moriah. .
2. The Book of Mormon story states that the plates were first kept in a hill called Shim, then transferred to the hill Cumorah.
1. King Solomon allows only a few to see the treasure.
2. Smith allows only a few to see the plates.
1. Enoch's cavern is covered by a large stone with an iron ring.
2, Smith earlier claimed the plates were in an iron box, but later said it was stone.
1. Enoch is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the treasure.
2. Smith is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the plates.
1. King Solomon changes the status of his underground cavern from secret to sacred.
2. The Mormon temple ceremony is declared not to be secret but sacred.
So check this out. I've had recent discussions where I point out that scripture says if a prophet gets a single prophesy wrong they're a false prophet. I was immediately condemned by the mormon as misinterpreting and twisting scripture in the work of Satan. Furthermore, I was told only Jesus was perfect so I can't expect perfection from prophets. There was no response when I pointed out a prophet isn't speaking about his own opinion, but is transmitting God's words and last time I checked, God, even mormon god, IS perfect. The hoops apologists have to jump through to avoid the glaring truth. Like you guys said, "Faith is the belief in what you can't see, not inspite of what you can."
Wouldn’t it make more sense from a divine perspective to convert the gold from the gold plates after the word was translated and put on paper? If God’s church needed money bad enough to go treasure hunt in Salem why wouldn’t he use the gold he supposedly already had?
"Nope, my bro!" I needed that laugh😂
Heard Garden of Eden is In Missouri ? , need to tell my Christian brother-in-law lives In Missouri , he would probably say ( Kool) !
All things considered, shouldn't the Doctrine & Covenants come with a subordinate title? "The Doctrine and Covenants: A Special Collection of Failed Prophecies." That's always been the essence of that book in my estimation.
So witty! Thank goodness not everyone is naive.
LOVE IT!!! @Randy Jordan
Why didn’t you expand on the death of David W. Patten? He died in the Battle of Crooked River, an action which further evinces the violent nature of the early Mormons.
You guys need to summarize this
John is actually correct - there is a Church of the Temple Lot that owns the land, not the C of Christ.
I didn't know we no longer have to gather and zion is in our hearts. Sweet! I don't need to be in shape anymore to be able to walk out there. 😂
Estão no meu país, o que faz pena sendo um país tão católicos 🤷
Imo, backing down at zions camp is a huge signal the Smith wasn't a true believer.
I always took the attempted sale of the BoM copyright in Canada as evidence that Joseph Smith's original (money-making) idea was to get money from being the author and proprietor of a best-selling book. The book proved to not be a best seller and, in desperation, Joseph Smith decided to salvage the situation by trying to sell the rights to the book to someone who maybe would be able to turn it into something profitable. Then that didn't work...so the next big plan was to use the book as a prop in connection with setting up and leading a church. Of course, if God was really involved and had any foresight at all, the solution to Joseph's future financial problems was quite obvious, given the fact that at one point there was an entire stack of pure gold equivalent to several pounds of gold that could have been used to cover expenses rather than just gathering spiritual dust in heaven (now) or being hidden away (then).
Apologetic thought in mormonism is just insidious 🙄😒
The Mormons care for their own and if they help you, you better have good reason for needing help. When I was a Mormon from 1974 to 1989 in Utah, if people were hungry that were not members of the church, you ignored them or you took it upon yourself to help out. I remember dropping off big boxes of food including a frozen turkey's during the holiday season. Knocking on the door and driving off quickly was my method of operation. I never knew the people that needed help personally. It just seemed like the decent thing to do. I'm now 75 years old and value The Commandments more than any church and the Messiah who kept the law (given at Sinai through Moses) perfectly.
Are you going to publish?
I remember being taught the following:
1. The government was destroyed because the party in power was the Whig party that collapsed.
2. Communism failed because it was Satan's counterfeit version that was Godless.
I can now look back and see how those don't really make sense, but I accepted those excuses at the time.
Does anyone have Zelph on their shelf?
In early scripture wherever it says to "fear" GOD etc, in most cases it means to "trust" ... Basically it is saying to believe. Not literally to be afraid.
I heard “fear god “means to “respect god”. Whatever … I’m so messed up.😮
@@patricianoel7782 yes, that is correct.
Do you respect anyone that you can't trust?
Also just to reinforce, we use capital letters when we mean to be making reference to The CREATOR. Because using lower case could mean anything a person worships such as belongings, money, a car. Etc, lower case is associated with idols. Idolatry.
@@AuraLee-LMT Got it. Agreed. I’ve been LDS for 65 years and never saw it that way.
incorrect.,
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
I can give you many, but Fear is the beginning of Wisdom, and it means just that, FEAR
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
@@MrInfoPhilly sorry to burst your bubble in trying to discredit me. In fact I am not incorrect. If A child trusts the parent when told not to put their hand in the fire so they won't get burned. That child won't get burned if they obey and respect that parental advisory. Yet if the child is curious and goes against the advisor then of course said child will suffer burns. Now, you can call it fear of the fire or the consequences of not listening and heading the advise. Or you can call it trust that what is said or warned is accurate.
In the "Pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked away" prophecy, Smith blunders in a way that VERY few will notice. Many misguided Christians today do the same from false teachers like Scofield and his followers which is to unwittingly mash together prophecy events from two separate and distinct future events. They are the sword, famine, and pestilence (plague in some Bibles) of the tribulation, versus the hail, earthquakes. and other geophysical events of the Day of the Lord, such as darkness, the moon becoming as blood, lighting to the ends of the earth, the stars falling, blood rain, and the wicked being destroyed. These two separate prophecies are known to be separate from Jesus' own words in Matthew 24: 29-31 which show that the Day of the Lord's geophysical events are separate from and after the tribulation events. But Smith blunders right into a very common mistake of poor Bible scholarship, and lists them together in a mash-up. Thus Pestilence (tribulation), hail (Day of the Lord). famine (tribulation), and earthquake (Day of the Lord) will sweep the wicked away (Day of the Lord). In short, Smith in his counterfeit version creates a three-dollar bill.
Since it was all a magic show going back to his Beginnings I think they were all failed a non-believer
I believe Joseph had Lucferian powers that people mistook for charisma. Occultic master mason priestcraft.
Ding ding, we have a winner. Look at the coin in his pocket when he died; it’s covered in occult symbols.
For sure
After the Jehovah witnesses gave up on actual dates, they say it will happen after the death of last person who was alive when Russell T Hayes, was alive, and now it’s after the last person who dies, of that generation. Similar but different, to the Saturday’s warrior idea.
Joseph Smith should have stuck to impossibly vague statements that would have to be retroactively interpreted as prophecy. Like the prophets of old.
I remember that movie about Brigham Young's exodus to Utah. The LDS fold made it to Utah, they had their crops planted and were waiting for the harvest. Unfortunately a plague of crickets descended on their crops. Luckily a flock of seagulls just happened to be in the hood and the seagulls saved their crops.
Seagulls crap birds...The eat ant thing ..
Just like the botherhood. 😞😞
Hill comorah. I thought that when they dug the holes for the poles for the lights for the first pageant held there they found arrow heads by the bucket full and supposedly the church has them in salt lake. At the history building. I believe I heard/saw Rod Meldrum say that. In a heartland video. Either him or Wayne may...
Truth matters.
Taking some bones away from a supposedly sacred space ! What about ressurrection when a body should be placed in the ground to be ressurrected.
On canonization … Talk about cutting thru a 💎diamond…but my “mind” is so pained as we all are resistant to undoing these tentacles in our minds…because I have so wanted this “true” church to be all it intangibly offers for my tangible time and free labor and very tangible dollar$$$$$$$
Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - a measuring rod for testing prophet and branding as false prophet?
An overly critical attitude and strict application of anti-Mormon critics using Deuteronomy 18:20-22 may reject even true biblical prophets and apostles, and even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, like the Atheists do proving the Bible to be false using this approach or technique againts Christian Ministries in attacking bible prophecies and making the Bible as fraud.
If Deuteronomy 18:20-22 is a standard measuring rod or criterion for testing a failed prophecy to make one a false prophet then:
• Was Moses a false prophet if Hebrews 7:11-12 is correct that the Aaronic Priesthood is not eternal, then Moses in Numbers 25:13 where he said in the name of the LORD that Phinehas his grand nephew would hold the priesthood eternally is false (Note in verse 10 “the LORD spake unto Moses saying,”)?
In this particular example, Moses fills the requirement for the test of biblical prophets of Deuteronomy much more closely than does Joseph Smith in most of the examples of “False Prophecies” cited by Atheists.
• Was Jesus a false messenger of the Father in Matthew 10:23 that His Second Coming would occur before the disciples returned from the uncompleted mission of which he was sending them in as the verse reads in the Revised Standard Version: “When they persecute you [the disciples] in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say unto you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of Man comes”?
• Was Isaiah a false prophet for stating in Isaiah 13:6 that “the day of the Lord is soon at hand” and that he prophesy the destruction of Babylon (see Isaiah 13:1, 19-20) yet Babylon was not even conquered until 539 BC a century and a half after Isaiah while it’s destruction came even later?
• Was James the apostle a false apostle for stating in James 5:7-9 that “… the coming of the Lord draweth nigh… “the judge standeth before the door” yet Jesus has not come to judge and reign?
• Was Zephaniah (in the days of King Josiah (see Zephania 1:1) a false prophet for stating in Zephaniah 1:7 writing of the destruction of Judah that “the day of the Lord is at hand” and that “the great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and it hasteth greatly” (see Zephaniah 1:14) yet the Lord did not come nearly a century before Judah was taken captive by the Babylonians?
• Was Joel a false prophet for stating in Joel 1:15 that the day of the Lord is at hand and that the Lord cometh for it is nigh at hand (see Joel 2:1)?
• Was Peter a false apostle for stating in 1 Peter 4:7 “but the end of all things is at hand” yet obviously “all things” have not yet ended despite a nearly two millennia since those words were written?
With the Biblical prophecies and terminologies above, how do Christian Ministries respond to Atheists criterion Deuteronomy 18:20-22 like they used to Joseph Smith in his prophecies?
Will they use a double standard?
Has anyone heard of the Mentinah Archives
Prophets were called by God, to warn and wake up the people because they had strayed and were about to face destruction. They didn't have permanent Prophets.
About that passage concerning being afraid of a prophet, my guess is that they use the word "afraid" because, 9 times out of 10, the "prophet" is always prophesying about some kind of horrific doom. So when one of these "prophets of doom" predicts some kind of horrendous thing happening before a specified date (if the people don't shape up and do what the prophet tells them to do) and that date comes and goes without incident, it's safe to assume that in this case it's a prophet of doom who's just firing blanks (a variation of the boy who cries wolf). No need to be afraid of a doomsayer who's constantly wrong, even though there is always a possibility that the doomsayer could be like the proverbial broken clock that is exactly right two times a day. Closely related thereto is the phenomenon of vaticinium ex eventu (back-dated prophecies) in scripture, designed to basically create a "real prophet" through a fictional reworking of history and reordering of chronological events, necessitated by the fact that prophesying an event AFTER it already happened is always less impressive.
Is this like Oneidas telling there is Nephite gold at a mountain where people are buying property there?
I looked for the Millennial star edition that talks about the US Government being broken up etc but on the digital collection in BYU, page 455 of vol 22 is not showing. No matter what i do, it jumps from 454 to 456. :/
Where’s the other 2 tribes of Israel?
"Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion man"
And lo, the prophet George Carlin said, "What's the point of having a divine plan, if some schmuck with a $2 prayer book can F up your plan? If it's God's plan, and he's going to do what he wants anyway, what's the point of praying?"
Thank you for this guys much love.
The really pathetic thing here is that all you need to have a false prophet is ONE failed prophecy, and in Joseph Smith Jr we have many (several) failed prophecies. Excellent episode guys.
Joseph's Myth could have predicted Mookie Wilson's ground ball going through Bill Buckner in the 1986 World Series and still been a false prophet. Deuteronomy 13
Topics like this always remind me of that famous statement that David Whitmer attributed to Joseph Smith: "Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil." Of all of the things witnessed and reported by any of the original "witnesses", this is probably the most valuable. I would say that if you remove the first clause and the third clause, we get the most accurate description of Joseph Smith's calling and mission that has ever been uttered, although one is tempted to believe that the third clause may possibly have some relevance too.
I will pay as I go. Hopefully yall can translate and get.this.out in other languages. My best buddy from boliva is listening in english but it would be great in Spanish
💚
GOD SAID THAT IN THE LAST DAYS MANY WILL DEPART FROM THIER FAITH EVEN THE VERY ELECT ( THE VERY ELECT ARE THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST AND AFTERWARD THEY DENIED IT.. THEY HAVE NO GLORY, THEY WILL GO TO THE KINGDOM OF THE DIVI BECAUSE THEY CHOSE IT.
They’ve been saying it’s been the last days since the time of Jesus.. 2000 years later and everyone throughout those years have said it was the last days. They let wars go on because the book says it needs to happen.. it’s disgusting
Maybe that feeling their bosoms was guilt, for grave robbing.
When the faithful Saint crossed the plains to the salt lake valley died in freezing conditions and no food.. I always wonder why God blessed the Israelis with mana from heaven but didn't do the same for the faithful saints
Favouritism.
I have no affiliation with the Mormon church. But I have deep respect and admiration for these people, who went so far and experienced such hardships for their faith. 1:23:28
Unfortunately regardless of how angry and threatening in “prophecy” they are just a pale reflection of the Hebrew Bible story of Abraham. Kind of like you call yourself obedient ? Would you take your son to sacrifice because that is what Abraham understood was being asked of him. If I were him it would be a slam dunk truth that Hashem the lord of Israel who’s declared them special among all men would NEVER ask this. I’ve been at three or four reformed temples which TRY to explain this story…. To quote Tevya from Fiddler “there IS no other hand” it cannot be explained away. The Spanish Inquisition justified itself in part by Abraham
Did old joe write to congress? It reminds me of L Ron Hubbard, writing the fbi all the time.
Re: economic efficiency: is it efficient that the vast majority of people work bullshit jobs their whole lives when we know everyone's mental capacity is about the same?
He’s a modern day influencer
I have heard, from an always reliable source (whose initials are H.G.), that the top leaders of the church have a standard greeting that they give each other, particularly when one or more of them is heading out to speak to the members of the church: "May the farce be with you!" Once, when Lucy Harris asked Martin why he was willing to follow Joseph Smith, Martin replied: "The farce is strong with this one." It could be that they're just speaking after the manner of the inhabitants of Spanish Fark.
A museum in Ohio has artifacts and the mound builders were prevalent. You know Ron Meldrum. He also is a great resource.
Oh, we know all about Ron Meldrum. He even came on John's podcast to be interviewed. What a joke. Here is the first part. ua-cam.com/video/JoAoeUjnISc/v-deo.html
Hardly a great resource. He is a marketing guy who has found a niche way to make money off of a select group of gullible people. Pseudoscience at best, no proof of anything, even some of the specialists which he refers to say Ron misinterpreted their data.
Mound City Group Museum, Hopewell Cultural National Museum Park, Ohio History Center, Smithsonian Museum, Coshocton Ohio, Norton Mound Group, King Mound Kentucky, Michigan Indian Artifacts, Indian Mound Artifacts Florence City, Dr. Charles Metz, Cincinnati Museum, Wayne May, Rod Meldrum, The Ancient Giants who ruled America (book), Arkansas Museum, Hill Cumorah Museum, The Lost City of Zarahemla (book) just to name a few of the findings, research and researchers, and evidence. Misinterpreting the data is a personal opinion.
@@resonnezforward2071 I'm not suggesting there were no mound builders. I'm sure there are fantastic museums that explore, explain, demonstrate, etc the Native American history of the area. But trying to connect that to the Book of Mormon, and suggesting Ron Meldrum is some kind of authority on this is where you are getting off track. He has no formal education in geology, archeology, biology, history, etc and yet his marketing education has really helped him find a way to make money off Mormons who really want to see evidence of their beliefs.
Wayne May also believes the Book of Mormon happened in North America. Their findings make sense to me wether they make profit on it or not. It makes sense to me, since I have read the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants several times.
Is Nemo anti Christian now? Honest question
You brought up David Koresh. That wasn't mass suicide. That was a mass murder at the hands of the ATF.
It’s a little bit of both really.
Did David W Patton have a wife?
Religions are for control of the people of God. They control through, shame, guilt, & fear! We don't need man to intercede, in our relationship with our Father! Get out of man's churches! We have a direct path, with our Father. He Loves us so very much! I Love our Father with all my heart & soul! Pray for knowledge of the truth & for discernment, in order to recognize the truth. I Love You All! 💕🙏 🥰🙏🏾♥️
I agree. ❤️
In my long life and journey, I’ve come 1:23:28 to the same conclusion. Beautifully said.
@@ThomasWalerius Thank You! Have a wonderfully blessed weekend! Lots of love to you!
My understanding is that the notion that the only things that really, definitely, certainly and always count as the word of God are pronouncements that have been unanimously endorsed, approved and confirmed by the 15 top leaders and have been canonized...is a notion that itself has never been canonized or even expressly endorsed, approved and confirmed unanimously in any statement jointly issued by the 15 top leaders.
Which church you belong with and why you try to against it remember your words are counted till the judgement day
Your comment is hard to understand. Just know that that sentence has come nearly from all churches at this point, not saying latter-day saints are wrong. I'm just trying work this out, G-D Bless! ❤
Joseph Smith at one time worked for a company that paid workers to search for Gold. So Joseph probably thought he could find gold as well. He was just looking for a way to pay off debts. I can’t blame him. The Lord however was referring to the gold and silver that the people within the membership would offer. So to me this was not a failed revelation at all.
Great video by the way guys!
But i would like to add, is that when they are talking about in the OT aboout fearing the Lord. It's not the same thing of being scared of Him but to be in awe of God of Universe, to be in adoration of Him.
The department of redundancy department
The Pope sent a representative to the Irish Bishops to scold them for the cover up of child abuse by the clergy in Ireland. It was known even then that this same cover up was happening world wide, under the directions of the Pope and top hierarchy. How in Christ like!! How hypocritical.
At 1 hour 7 minutes and 30 seconds. You said it was a good thing Joseph didn't lead his people into a slaughterhouse however how many souls has he led to hell still today? Jesus said whoever adds or takes away from my words will be put to death. Revelations 22:18-19 kinda funny he was killed huh? I'm sad because they made a false prophet a martyr and to this day he still leads people to believing that works gets you into heaven not faith by his blood... I hope he enjoys the plagues of this book. He is condemned by it now.