Given that it takes most riders months to really get the most out of a bike, do you think that such a short test is meaningful? One of the riders improved his time each lap showing that as he got to learn the track he got faster, regardless of bike. Isn't track familiarity more important on such a short test? Interested to hear your opinion.
I agree without you about the timing aspect I think the test was to short for that, but I still think they could get a decent feel of the bikes with the amount of runs they did
This series is the best! My 2022 enduro has become probably my favourite ride ever. It was wasn't love at first ride, but after some setup changes I've never ridden anything more confidence inspiring
I had a enduro and currently on new pivot firebird but the norco range always had my interest. How does the range climb? I’m sure its a tank on the descents.
@@K1ngJame5-mtb I’ve also had a Firebird and the Range is significantly harder to pedal uphill. On the other hand, the Range handles big hits with much more poise thanks to the lengthening rear-end. I definitely prefer the Range for Free ride and fast downhill tracks that reward the extra grip
Sweet video bro. I've noticed longer wheelbases and especially longer chainstays seem to make a big difference in calming down how a bike feels when the trail is fast and rough. Your testing seems to confirm this. The Dreadnought chainstay starts at 450 in size large and grows by 30mm as the suspension compresses! That is a massive increase in length. Whereas the Enduro S4 has a 447 chainstay with little to no growth. Very interesting to hear the feedback in this video. It seems like a combination of rearward axle path and long chainstays can practically compensate for less travel from a rider perspective. In my experience with high pivot bikes, they handle a bit different than traditional bikes but it doesn't seem to have been an issue for these riders.
It definitely plays a role but in my experience it’s only part of the the equation. I went from a trek remedy (435 cs) to a v4 5010 (426) and feel way more centered on the sc and feel it drifts more evenly than the trek. Seems like the suspension plays quite a big role as well as the trek squatted more and always felt like it rocked back and forth a lot, which probably unsettled the bike leading to the feeling of being on the edge constantly.
this video is really impressive...i own two bikes now, a Specialized SX Trail 1 from 2005, and a Transition Patrol 2016... the SX trail has the SAME feeling in the corners that you guys related on the video. IF you don't balance your weight to the back of the bike in the corners, it just doesn't work, it actually takes a lot of understeer... but if you do put your balance to the back just a bit, the bike corners like a king....it's very sketchy to do that, because I'm not used to ride like that in the first place. and in the other hand, the Patrol just does what I need in the corners without any "resistance". She just goes, it's such a better feeling comparing to the SX Trail... it's a lot better felling riding that bike, it feels more confident, more compliance, and more fun!
i have both bikes the enduro's rear end works much better. With the dreadnought I tested a lot of different shocks with different setups. I felt the rebound was always too slow and the rear end insensitive. I'm currently driving the deviate claymore, which also works very well.
@@ashkonsenaati8530 I tested many different setups. Also with a very light compression and rebound tune, different air chambers, tokens and pistons. the recommended tune i tested too, but it was too slow. at the end it worked, but it was never the highpivot magic carpet
@@m-suspensiontech1764 also if I recall correctly the dreadnought is a very progressive frame. I think frames are overly progressive these days. I am 68kg riding on a bike with about 22% progression and I think it is still workingtoo much. It requires very light dampening and makes the bike feel unpredictable.
Totally agree, the conventional approach was riding it with a setup with slower rebound. But I tend to find myself still trying to increase my rebound as I like my bike being more poppy and active. I guess that’s just the way the high pivot works the most effectively.
Sounds like the forbidden is a more intuitive bike that doesn’t require weird weight shifts like the enduro. Usually those are the best handling bikes as you can stay relatively centered.
I ride an enduro with a bunch of upgrades: vorsprung smashpot at 180 mm in a RS Zeb, cascade link, rs super deluxe ultimate coil, WRP mullet link, 27.5 rear wheel, xt drivetrain. It’s a sick bike. Just so much stability and traction from coil front and rear. The enduro is such a solid platform already, but all the upgrades just brought it to a whole new level. I’m gonna be using it as my DH race bike this season.
As in the test my enduro also feels like is going away from me…most of all it’s because of my lack of ability to push her to the limit but i think i feel always to far back with the body…i tried a shorter stem (40 mm) just to feel the bike i bit shorter and active but i need sonething else…does the flip chip in the high position helps in feeling the rear end more active and for better cornering ?
@@antoniogarofalo9240 it will feel better in cornering if it’s in low because of the slightly longer wheelbase you get from that. If you find yourself falling off the back of the bike I’d say just try and adjust your body position to have your weight more over the front. Some wider bars can help with this because it’ll put you in a more aggressive position
That trail looks awesome. Loved this video. Very interesting. You should have made Ryan keep going until he could no longer beat his previous time! lol
I own a Evo ltd and just tried the Deviate Hightower 150. The Hightower is super nimble and the high pivot works great up&downhill. The only thing i noticed is that the Deviate is a bit harder to get in the air but i liked it so much that I am seriously thinking about getting one ! Anyone tried the new Druid yet ??
@@matthiascampedelli4321 Cool! That's basically what I had imagined the deviate would ride like and why I was interested in it. Have my "smaller" stumpy evo for poppy playful riding, then the claymore as the "bigger" bike for more smashing.
awsome video as well as the druid vs instinct one but they both don't have any informations about climbing performance of the bikes... anyone can tell me that?
Ryan was executing a right foot-front foot turn and stayed over the front on the Spec on those steeps left hander turns. He held traction by not staying back. That tells me the suspension is more progressive in the Dreadnought. It holds support more into the turn and ramps up out of the turn. The Spec seems to dive into the travel more.
I do not care about times at all. There is a chance times are altered by the rider or even so close it does not matter. All I care about is the fit and feel of the bike. Which bike is the one that brings the fun factor and gives the rider what they want and need.
I think what this shows is Ryan is a way better rider than Connor and has nothing to do with the bikes. Ryan Consistency on slightly improving on each run on both bikes would mean that even if you give them both a new set of decent enduro bikes, Connor time would still be unpredictable.
Gotta do 2 laps , 2 laps one the next bike, then back to first bike, then 2 laps on second bike. Maybe another day back and forth… 3 runs apiece didn’t bring any nuance between the bikes. Both bikes rail? This needs to be more of a breakdown on the difference’s between bikes please…
Just got me an enduro as a gravity bike to compliment my custom gravity focused Levo and I’ll say that first impression my Levos super dialed and I need to follow suite with the Cascade link, SDU coil rear and Zeb with SmashPot. My enduro has I9 hubs which roll so damn smooth but the pedal kickback does make it feel more hectic in the steep and rough then it should feel. So I guess I get to try an O Chain 😊
@@spencerimre I know right. Wasn’t my idea to put high engagement hubs on the bike. Bought it from a friend who didn’t mind climbing. This bike will serve as my bike park bike/ shuttle bike so I don’t mind loosing engagement at all. I’d rather have some suspension in the drivetrain to dampen the pedal kickback. Knowing what I know now about pedal kickback and fancy hubs I’d probably opt for some DT SWISS hubs instead of high engagement hubs
@@excelautodetailingceramicc1182 I've heard a few people in the Arrival group loving their o-chain and they're mostly all on hydras, it still accomplishes it's thing. Having a low engagement hub isn't the equivalent action of an o chain, a low engagement hub there's no guarantee that the hub won't engage when the kickback will happen, plus you can optimize the degree the o chain can work. I'd love to try it
@@LemonySnicket-EUC “Fun” is completely subjective, it’s different for everyone. He was still faster on the Enduro, which matters to many people. Besides, that’s not “blowing it away” - it’s two excellent bikes that someone really likes but had a bit more fun on one over the other. I’m guessing OP is just a Forbidden fanboy or the stereotypical Specialized hater… probably both.
@@DavidFoundCoNo they dont. The Yeti chainsays grow like 3mm per size, the Dreadnought chainstays grow 14mm to keep the Same Frontcenter/rearcenter propotions. Compared to Forbidden every other Bikecompany hast only marginally growing rearcenters. I cant tell you whats better tho.
@@maffin2917 Don’t go out on a spew and say “can’t tell you what’s better”. Both Yeti & pivot have plenty of ews titles to know the geometry that makes them win. I think you’re missing the point of what the purpose of these bikes are and big bike park stability isn’t always one of them
@@DavidFoundCo The Forbidden Druid is #2 in overall EDR right now. With 130mm rear travel. But tbh its always the rider that wins races not the bike. The race winning argument only shows that the bike is good enough to not be in the riders way when he wins a race.
@@maffin2917 canyon, Rocky Mountain, pivot, yeti, commencal, trek have shortish chainstays. Not saying causation equals correlation but there’s a pattern here
Given that it takes most riders months to really get the most out of a bike, do you think that such a short test is meaningful? One of the riders improved his time each lap showing that as he got to learn the track he got faster, regardless of bike. Isn't track familiarity more important on such a short test? Interested to hear your opinion.
I agree without you about the timing aspect I think the test was to short for that, but I still think they could get a decent feel of the bikes with the amount of runs they did
This series is the best! My 2022 enduro has become probably my favourite ride ever. It was wasn't love at first ride, but after some setup changes I've never ridden anything more confidence inspiring
how tall are you and what size did you end up with? I'm thinking of trading my bike for one
What changes did you make? I just got a 2022 enduro and loving it so far but have only taken it out twice
Thanks vital for putting out quality content!
This really tracks with what I experienced going from an Enduro to the Norco Range. The cornering confidence is crazy good on the Range.
I had a enduro and currently on new pivot firebird but the norco range always had my interest. How does the range climb? I’m sure its a tank on the descents.
@@K1ngJame5-mtb I’ve also had a Firebird and the Range is significantly harder to pedal uphill. On the other hand, the Range handles big hits with much more poise thanks to the lengthening rear-end. I definitely prefer the Range for Free ride and fast downhill tracks that reward the extra grip
Recently picked up an enduro and it is amazing i was between these two bikes and i picked up a 22 enduro expert at half the cost of a forbiden.
Yeah you guys! Dang tha ole man still got it!!
😂😂😂❤
i have an Enduro and have always been interested in the Dreadnought. Great video!
Sweet video bro. I've noticed longer wheelbases and especially longer chainstays seem to make a big difference in calming down how a bike feels when the trail is fast and rough. Your testing seems to confirm this. The Dreadnought chainstay starts at 450 in size large and grows by 30mm as the suspension compresses! That is a massive increase in length. Whereas the Enduro S4 has a 447 chainstay with little to no growth. Very interesting to hear the feedback in this video. It seems like a combination of rearward axle path and long chainstays can practically compensate for less travel from a rider perspective. In my experience with high pivot bikes, they handle a bit different than traditional bikes but it doesn't seem to have been an issue for these riders.
It definitely plays a role but in my experience it’s only part of the the equation. I went from a trek remedy (435 cs) to a v4 5010 (426) and feel way more centered on the sc and feel it drifts more evenly than the trek. Seems like the suspension plays quite a big role as well as the trek squatted more and always felt like it rocked back and forth a lot, which probably unsettled the bike leading to the feeling of being on the edge constantly.
this video is really impressive...i own two bikes now, a Specialized SX Trail 1 from 2005, and a Transition Patrol 2016...
the SX trail has the SAME feeling in the corners that you guys related on the video. IF you don't balance your weight to the back of the bike in the corners, it just doesn't work, it actually takes a lot of understeer... but if you do put your balance to the back just a bit, the bike corners like a king....it's very sketchy to do that, because I'm not used to ride like that in the first place.
and in the other hand, the Patrol just does what I need in the corners without any "resistance". She just goes, it's such a better feeling comparing to the SX Trail...
it's a lot better felling riding that bike, it feels more confident, more compliance, and more fun!
i have both bikes the enduro's rear end works much better.
With the dreadnought I tested a lot of different shocks with different setups. I felt the rebound was always too slow and the rear end insensitive.
I'm currently driving the deviate claymore, which also works very well.
Did you try a lighter tune on the dreadnought?
@@ashkonsenaati8530 I tested many different setups. Also with a very light compression and rebound tune, different air chambers, tokens and pistons. the recommended tune i tested too, but it was too slow.
at the end it worked, but it was never the highpivot magic carpet
@@m-suspensiontech1764 also if I recall correctly the dreadnought is a very progressive frame. I think frames are overly progressive these days. I am 68kg riding on a bike with about 22% progression and I think it is still workingtoo much. It requires very light dampening and makes the bike feel unpredictable.
Totally agree, the conventional approach was riding it with a setup with slower rebound. But I tend to find myself still trying to increase my rebound as I like my bike being more poppy and active. I guess that’s just the way the high pivot works the most effectively.
Sounds like the forbidden is a more intuitive bike that doesn’t require weird weight shifts like the enduro. Usually those are the best handling bikes as you can stay relatively centered.
I ride an enduro with a bunch of upgrades: vorsprung smashpot at 180 mm in a RS Zeb, cascade link, rs super deluxe ultimate coil, WRP mullet link, 27.5 rear wheel, xt drivetrain. It’s a sick bike. Just so much stability and traction from coil front and rear. The enduro is such a solid platform already, but all the upgrades just brought it to a whole new level. I’m gonna be using it as my DH race bike this season.
As in the test my enduro also feels like is going away from me…most of all it’s because of my lack of ability to push her to the limit but i think i feel always to far back with the body…i tried a shorter stem (40 mm) just to feel the bike i bit shorter and active but i need sonething else…does the flip chip in the high position helps in feeling the rear end more active and for better cornering ?
@@antoniogarofalo9240 it will feel better in cornering if it’s in low because of the slightly longer wheelbase you get from that. If you find yourself falling off the back of the bike I’d say just try and adjust your body position to have your weight more over the front. Some wider bars can help with this because it’ll put you in a more aggressive position
That trail looks awesome. Loved this video. Very interesting. You should have made Ryan keep going until he could no longer beat his previous time! lol
For my own health I am glad we did not 😂
Loving the series!!
A great video and reviews. Be interesting to see what the new Enduro will look like ?
It's weird how much time I spend randomly thinking about what the next Spesh Enduro will be like.
@@blangeleventhat’s me but with the prototype rockshox vivid air
Deviate Claymore vs Stumpjumper evo next!!
I own a Evo ltd and just tried the Deviate Hightower 150. The Hightower is super nimble and the high pivot works great up&downhill. The only thing i noticed is that the Deviate is a bit harder to get in the air but i liked it so much that I am seriously thinking about getting one ! Anyone tried the new Druid yet ??
@@matthiascampedelli4321
Cool! That's basically what I had imagined the deviate would ride like and why I was interested in it. Have my "smaller" stumpy evo for poppy playful riding, then the claymore as the "bigger" bike for more smashing.
@@matthiascampedelli4321 Both were some of my dream bikes to check out before I pulled the trigger on number 1, good luck picking!
What’s the dropper used in the specy?
awsome video as well as the druid vs instinct one but they both don't have any informations about climbing performance of the bikes... anyone can tell me that?
Ryan was executing a right foot-front foot turn and stayed over the front on the Spec on those steeps left hander turns. He held traction by not staying back. That tells me the suspension is more progressive in the Dreadnought. It holds support more into the turn and ramps up out of the turn. The Spec seems to dive into the travel more.
What’s the trail they are riding?
vital>pinkbike
should swap bikes each lap because they generally get faster with more laps.
I do not care about times at all. There is a chance times are altered by the rider or even so close it does not matter. All I care about is the fit and feel of the bike. Which bike is the one that brings the fun factor and gives the rider what they want and need.
I think what this shows is Ryan is a way better rider than Connor and has nothing to do with the bikes. Ryan Consistency on slightly improving on each run on both bikes would mean that even if you give them both a new set of decent enduro bikes, Connor time would still be unpredictable.
Awesome
Gotta do 2 laps , 2 laps one the next bike, then back to first bike, then 2 laps on second bike. Maybe another day back and forth… 3 runs apiece didn’t bring any nuance between the bikes. Both bikes rail? This needs to be more of a breakdown on the difference’s between bikes please…
For the cost, you might as well run the more exotic instead of the big brand.
Well, the name is Forbidden. Dreadnaught.
Counts as an automatic 20% increase in performance just from the name.
Just got me an enduro as a gravity bike to compliment my custom gravity focused Levo and I’ll say that first impression my Levos super dialed and I need to follow suite with the Cascade link, SDU coil rear and Zeb with SmashPot. My enduro has I9 hubs which roll so damn smooth but the pedal kickback does make it feel more hectic in the steep and rough then it should feel. So I guess I get to try an O Chain 😊
Right. Get a nice high engagement hub and then ruin it with an o chain. Lol
@@spencerimre I know right. Wasn’t my idea to put high engagement hubs on the bike. Bought it from a friend who didn’t mind climbing. This bike will serve as my bike park bike/ shuttle bike so I don’t mind loosing engagement at all. I’d rather have some suspension in the drivetrain to dampen the pedal kickback. Knowing what I know now about pedal kickback and fancy hubs I’d probably opt for some DT SWISS hubs instead of high engagement hubs
@@excelautodetailingceramicc1182 I've heard a few people in the Arrival group loving their o-chain and they're mostly all on hydras, it still accomplishes it's thing. Having a low engagement hub isn't the equivalent action of an o chain, a low engagement hub there's no guarantee that the hub won't engage when the kickback will happen, plus you can optimize the degree the o chain can work. I'd love to try it
The forbidden blows away the specialized 🤣
Except the fastest time was on the Enduro… 🤷🏼♂️😂
@@Mockle07the Dreadnaught was more fun and less hectic and the bike he preferred. He loved it even.
@@LemonySnicket-EUC “Fun” is completely subjective, it’s different for everyone. He was still faster on the Enduro, which matters to many people.
Besides, that’s not “blowing it away” - it’s two excellent bikes that someone really likes but had a bit more fun on one over the other. I’m guessing OP is just a Forbidden fanboy or the stereotypical Specialized hater… probably both.
Specialized is absolutely crap 🤣
Every bike should have a proportional rear centre like the Forbidden.
Add pivot & yeti, they’re doing it right
@@DavidFoundCoNo they dont.
The Yeti chainsays grow like 3mm per size, the Dreadnought chainstays grow 14mm to keep the Same Frontcenter/rearcenter propotions.
Compared to Forbidden every other Bikecompany hast only marginally growing rearcenters.
I cant tell you whats better tho.
@@maffin2917 Don’t go out on a spew and say “can’t tell you what’s better”. Both Yeti & pivot have plenty of ews titles to know the geometry that makes them win. I think you’re missing the point of what the purpose of these bikes are and big bike park stability isn’t always one of them
@@DavidFoundCo The Forbidden Druid is #2 in overall EDR right now. With 130mm rear travel.
But tbh its always the rider that wins races not the bike.
The race winning argument only shows that the bike is good enough to not be in the riders way when he wins a race.
@@maffin2917 canyon, Rocky Mountain, pivot, yeti, commencal, trek have shortish chainstays. Not saying causation equals correlation but there’s a pattern here