Question 2: 375 Win or 450 Marlin? HD 1080p
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Ok..you spoke, the 350 Rem Mag is out. How about between the 375 and the 450 Marlin? Two levers with quite a different skill set! At Bed Time: 9 for the 450 and 6 for the 375. Pretty close. I'll drop the video of the scout on Monday or Tuesday and you can see how it went.
I have several lever rifles, 45 Colt (X2) 32 Win Spl, 375 Win 94 Big Bore, 45-60, 45-70 and 45-90. I absolutely LOVE my 375 Win. It's a great overall package. Definitely a handloaders cartridge though. But very rewarding. Just stumbled across some of your videos and I really enjoy them. I like your down home approach. Well done Sir 🍻
Thanks mate... I ended up selling the 450 Marlin..the prices are getting crazy. I will keep that 375. Great and handy combo and so fun to shoot.
If something is charging you and you can’t hit it properly it doesn’t matter how big a gun you have it won’t kill it quickie enough, I would Go with gun that I was sure would be there for me when I needed it.
I find the 375 big bores received better fitting from the factory they seem to have much smoother actions then other 94's. I also find the marlin in 45-70 and 35 remington to be excellent.
They did some fine work when making these. Can't figure out why they didn't sell like crazy.
@@north61 I agree they are nicely built. Very smooth.
I have a Marlin in 375…my favorite lever gun
Use the one that you have the most confidence in. That's the one I'd want to carry in bear country.
I have a 45/70 Guide Gun a 336RC 35Rem and a 94 375. I'd be confident with each but I gravitate to the 94 loaded with 255 Barnes from Buffalo Bore. It's so light, fast and plenty accurate. Great videos!
That's a nice set of rifles!
The 1895 is just as generation tested as the win 94. Based on the 1893 and earlier designs the marlin has been around the same amount time if not longer if you have issues it would be due to your rifle being a lemon or likely the big rim on the 450 marlin. Both are good actions thats why they are still being produced today unfortunately winchesters are made overseas (ruger is currently getting marlin to the market).
I know the Marlin is clunkier, but, I would be loading a 300 gr. bullet sitting on top of 53 grains of H4350 and have that pill cooking out of the barrel at over 2300 fps. This is approaching .375 H&H Magnum energy. I choose the Marlin .450.
I still have some discontinued partitions in 300 grain weight that penetrated like crazy!
@@north61 Nosler has had the right idea for a long time with the way they construct their partition bullets. Hornady tries to use the interlock system which works okay, but for their FTX bullets I find a lot of jacket separation. The 300 gr. bullets I'm using right now are also Noslers but their Combined Technology lubed bullet. I'm not crazy about the large plastic frontal area and if you work with them you have to wear gloves because the coating is a bit irritating to the skin. But, they come out of the business end of the barrel cooking hot for a lever action. I'm using the minimum powder charge using data from Hodgdon which tends to be a little less conservative than Hornady and Federal/Speer. There is no doubt that load would take anything that walks this earth if the bullet were a solid. I love using the Henry 20" barreled carbine. Very handy and quick, indeed.
Lever action for carry comfort and speed into action with quick follow up shots. Either way you’re good. Recoil favors the 375. Power favors the 450. Is there a difference in penetration? Chose whichever you can shoot faster and more accurately.
Penetration similar. At 25 feet both ave about the same accuracy!
I have that identical 450 and I choose it over the 375.
I don't have enough experience, or even knowledge, of the .450 Marlin to make descision, but I do remember that a friend, who was a pretty knowlegeable survivalist and outdoorsman in his younger days, went and lived in the Alaskan bush for a year. He brought everything he had in on a knapsack and built a shelter and was able to survive just fine while out there.
The gun he chose to bring with him was a Marlin lever gun. Either a 336 or a 30A, I dont' recall exactly anymore, but along with it, he brought two boxes of Winchester Super-X in .30-30. 170 gr. bullets.
Served him just fine.
After a year, he started to miss his friends, so packed everything up and trucked back to civilization.
Take that however you like.
You Could Use Your 1895 Winchester in .405 Winchester 😀👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
another pound of weight but it sure is a great caliber!
Yes! Best of both worlds, accurate, heavy hitting. Considering the .375 Win is only producing 2044 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. (Not much more than a .243 Win)
And the .405 Win has better trajectory than a .450 Marlin when using heavier loadings.
Yep..I'd carry that 💪👍
I have a 450 Marlin with a Leupold 1 1/2 x 5 straight objective. I roll my own 500 grain hardcast gas checked painted bullets. I use 40 grains of H322. I don't have a chrono., but I've been told around 1500 fps. These rounds penetrate, I've seen similar rounds do 18 4 liter water filled milk jugs. African PH's are using this for cape buffalo.
Amazing!
@@north61 If you're interested I'd love to send you some of my bullets and the recipe. It would be great to see what you think of them and what kind of speed the load is generating.
@@darylehayward5155 greg_janestorey@northwestel.net. Would love to see your results. I have had good luck with H322 and 350-450 grains.
I'd seriously consider your Model 71. When I was a kid in the 50s there was a .348 necked up to .40 caliber that some bear guides used. I think it was called the .400 Alaskan, but I don't remember clearly. But the 71 is such a collector's rifle it would be a shame to spoil it. I'd still pick the .348 even though I think the .350 Remington is better. 30 years ago my personal gunsmith was building a one shot bear stopper for a North Slope geologist who, after 20 years in the field finally had to stop a grizzly charge. It took 3 shots from his .300 Win Mag and the bear skidded to a dead stop at his feet. His solution was a .375 H&H on an Enfield 1917 action, 20 in barrel, KDF recoil arrestor, large aperture receiver sight, 6.5 lbs all up, composite stock painted bright orange so he could see it immediately from anywhere in camp. Just hearing the test fire was enough for me. I declined the opportunity to shoot it.
I love the idea of the orange stock. That makes a lot of sense for a 100% dedicated bear defense rifle.
Since my 450 is in the heavier 1895MR model I scoped it with an older Zeiss Diavari, made in west Germany, 3-9 scope that works great. It’s it’s just whitetails I’ll grab my marlin or win in 356. I prefer the 356 rather than my 375.
That one would be an easy choice for me, Winchester lever guns are just much nicer feeling than marlin.
That's also been my experience but in the end the range measured in feet had me thinking about that big fat bullet and the impact it makes. Maybe a Winchester 94 in 450 Marlin would be worth saving for?
I personally would choose the Marlin. I’m biased as I have the 45-70 version of your rifle and it’s a hammer. When camping in bear country I keep loaded with 420gr hard cast, it will break bones and penetrate. I think the .375 as well and toyed with one for a while 10 years back or so.
The 420 grain cast should penetrate right through a bear!
I vote "none of the above" - I think you ought to take your M71 in .348 Winchester. But that's only cuzz I found your channel soon after finding a Model 71 for myself, and your musings over this caliber helped me tremendously. I know you think it has become too "valuable" to hunt with, but in my humble opinion, it's too valuable not to...
Much as I love it it's over 8 pounds. But it's a great thought isn't it!
I was thinking the same thing.
Man! You have so many awesome guns! Awesome cartridges! And live in the 'Yukon'. .. YUKON! Enough said😎😁
I have been lucky in my life. Had a dream as a kid and lived a bunch of it!
From what you described you like the ergonomics of the Winchester better than the Marlin. And you prefer the shoot-ability of the Winchester. And as such, shot placement trumps foot pounds of energy every time! And all the time! The .375 Win 94 has plenty of power to do the job and points and swings like a fine upland quail gun, fast and smooth. You can't go wrong with that. That's what you want when your tail is on the line. The Winchester gets my vote.
Having a 45/70 SS JM Marlin guide gun may perhaps influence my choice, but the big bullets with their proven performance would be my choice for big bears. That 375 is lovely, but sometimes “A Bigger Hammer”, just feels confidence inspiring when toothy beasts are up close and invading your personal space. I’m casting Ranch Dog 425gr bullets and loading to a fairly conservative 1570 FPS. Very accurate in my rifle, and the 325 gr Hornady’s are right there for accuracy as well. I feel that the difference in sights between your rifles, won’t be much of a factor at necessary defensive distances. That said, which ever one that you’d instinctively grab to do battle in close range encounters with Ursus Horriblis, is the right one, as you know. Have an awesome trip!
I have some 440 grain Hard Cast bullets with an extremely blunt profile and they seem to penetrate forever at 14-1600 fps.
Ok so the other post didn’t get overly long, which it probably did, heres an update on my 375 Big Bore. The new mag spring allows for six in the tube (to my shock and delight) so I am good to go. Previous owners apparently shortened the mag spring to allow for seven in the tube, which was causing the last couple of rounds to hang in the tube. With that out of the way I will get to the range and get back to you on those 220gr Vollmer rounds. Thanks again for the feed back the other day.
Let me know how those Vollmer bullets work. Might need to get some sent to Alaska and pick them up when Covid lifts.
450 marlin using 405gr JFN at 1950fps. I like my marlin 375 too.
450, for the win! Anybody who thinks otherwise has never seen a grizzly. Too bad there's not a bonded 250 grain bullet for that 375. Even then, though, it's no 450
Exactly, that 375 is just a glorified 35 Remington. Good luck stopping a charge with that.
When it's a matter of feet you are probably correct.
the 450 is a sledge hammer for sure, but, which one are you (or your wife) more comfortable with? Less kick with the 375, but shoots faster. Myself, I always pack my 45/70 Marlin, with anything between 350gr and 425gr. It's what your more comfortable with and your wife.
There is no replacement for displacement?
Back in the late 80s I owned a Win 94 in 356. Very close power wise to the 358 Win and not far behind the 348 Win. Have you ever shot a 356 Win? I must also mention that it's been years since I have seen any 356 Win ammo for sale.
I am so rich in 35 caliber rifles I haven't gone there (yet)
375 Winchester 😀
I still vote for the 375. Simply due to balance, weight, reliability and familiarity with the gun equals confidence.
The ergonomics are hard to beat!
If it's truly about defence...I think I would always, always suggest a bolt action. As much as I love leverguns, the camming of a bolt gun and field strip wins.. I was in Griz country with a .45-70 loaded with the same Speer bullets. No compressed load, and every round cycled through chamber checked, still I must have picked up some debris on that long lead shoulder on that Speer bullet, that on extraction, the lever pulled the crimped bullet, dumped 3031 into the action, and the powder jammed the lever solid. Bullet didn't stay in the throat. Now I've loaded for 35 years. Some years fired 3000 rounds. Never, ever would have believed it possible. A spoke to my gunsmith buddy who does design work for Brownells and he thinks the bullet shifted with recoil making a longer OAL that the speer engaged the rifling, because of that real flat meplat and exposed lead, which pulled the bullet. The first shot had just killed a bull moose. Unloading the second incapacitated the gun until a complete breakdown could clean the powder out. Never would have happened with a bolt. I don't have any clue other than that bullet, on what happened. Bolt gun, could have dropped the mag, pulled the bolt, and been back, loaded in battery approaching the downed moose instead of holding a lever action yard ornament.
I had the same thing happen to a BLR and that rack and pinion action was hilariously difficult to clean and make function again. I had to take it home and really go at it with a variety of cleaning tools. I have since switched to the Lee Factory crimp die for my levers but you never know!
Same Lee crimp on mine.
The good news you were spot on with first shot. The moose never knew the difference. A follow on shot is life insurance, but "One shot, Kill" is the best.
You seem to favor and enjoy the Winchester handling so go 375. I'm also a fan of your sight arrangement. Good stuff.
Even so I've become a believer in the new micro red dot sights that have sensitivity capability and incredible battery life. I have factory irons on my BLR 450 takedown but added a red dot and it really is a game changer. The BLR with red dot is fairly svelte, powerful and fast. Now I need to find one in 308 or 358.
Thanks 👍
2:45 I got hit in the face by a sledgehammer and never got knocked out. I was thinking, why would you want to give a bear a headache? We were installing a new bearing on the combine header. I was the guy holding the pipe, and Brother missed. I was wearing my new glasses with plastic lenses for the first time. The lens cracked in many places, but stayed in the frames. He knew he missed and hauled back as much as he could. I was surely dazed and confused and has nothing to do with me being a cranky old man.
good to know. Hope the bear's are less tough than you are!
@@north61 I am sure one more life was used up. Brother had been swinging a sledge for 12 hour days constructing inland terminals, so he was fit. If he had not hauled back on that hammer I would be dead typing this. He thought he had killed me. Surprise! I did have to ask what happened, as it did not register.
🤕 Ouch
@@chrischiampo7647 Never felt a thing, but I got smacked in the face.
I think I would take a model 94 in the 450marlin or if you can find one of the very rare model 94’s in a 480ruger that would also be an option but of your options I agree with you the 94 is just a superior rifle
I have a Winchester 94 BB .375 Winchester with that same sighting system . If you intend to carry that for possibly encountering a grizzly I would suggest a 250gr hard cast bullet for increased penetration . Use of a hard cast gaschecked bullet will also enable you to increase velocity thus increasing penetration , something to consider when faced with a large predator that wants to cause you harm. Personally I would chose the .450 Marlin again with a hard cast gas check bullet and I'm not a fan of the .450 .
I'd vote neither! Take the .405 Win!
.375 Winchester for me.
Shot are likely to be very short range , so oractical accuracy is sort of irrelevant ! Go with the most confortable and fastest one. Bear defense is suppose to be a 50 yard and less when bear charges. More range than that is bear hunting. PersonnLy I would go 450 but carrying a gun in the bush for defense means a gun in your hands at all time so... the most confortable to carry with adequate power wins for me! Love your videos
That's a good point. I probably wouldn't shoot until 20 yards or so.. In that brushy country it might be 5 yards. Not much room for error.
I’d love to get my hands on a 375 Winchester lever gun. Does anyone still make ammo for it?
Winchester on a seasonal basis I believe.
Reeds Ammunition & Research out of Oklahoma.
Short answer (for me) 375 Win. This given the bullet selection, conditions specified and having owned equivalent firearms (45/70 ported GG instead of the 450 Marlin.)
Having both I agree the Marlin has a narrower and more critical band of action operation than the 94, i.e. a “Goldilocks zone.” In my 45/70 Marlins, a bit too slow the rim of an empty case can get hung in the action. Too fast and hard a Marlin Jam has occurred. Is it so narrow I wouldn’t use the gun, no. But it is just another thing to bear in mind as the bear approaches. Ok, enough with the bear puns. Never operated the “belted magnum” 450 Marlin but from what in heard I can’t imagine it helps matters! (And don’t get me started on Marlin’s choice there!).
Have you looked at a 350gr Woodliegh or equivalent in the 450 Marlin? Not sure your opinion of that bullet, if that would get the recoil down to where your wife could handle it comfortably but maybe it’s an option? I have some Buffalo Bore 350 45/70 and seem to be stout but manageable load. Garrett lists theirs for mountain grizzly. At the time of purchase, Buffalo Bore listed theirs for inter-coastal grizzly, however that specific verbiage is no longer there.
Thank for sharing and don’t rely on my arm chair quarterbacking for you choice.
Well I asked! I have tested the 405 grain Woodleigh and it's good but at the slow speeds the other 400 grain bullets hang together well too. So being 50% Scottish I use the cheapest bullets available.
@@north61 I fully understand that point.
The recoil factor was why I was leaning towards a 350gr load. A friend and I used to reload a 420gr (405 mold with a heavy lead/tin alloy) load that had a noticeable amount muzzle rise and slight twist to the GG when tapping off one those pills. It was noticeable enough to dissuade another friends lust for a 458 Win Mag!
We started taking the pin out of a 330 Gould hollow point mold to make a roughly a 350 gr hard cast solids. So that is a cheaper option.
Since I moved and live in an apartment, reloading and especially casting is not on the table. That why I picked up the Buffalo Bore 350gr.
In full disclosure the areas I live in are where black bear and now mountain lions are the largest threat I might encounter and my “grizzly” loads are based off of research not facing one down. That’s why I said don’t rely on my arm chair quarterbacking.
Sorry for the long winded explanation and thanks again for the discussion.
This is off topic but how did you loose the 40 pounds since last summer?
Great video btw I enjoy lever guns.
long slow walks up hills and one meal a day eating.
@@north61 Excellent
Who makes the sourdough sight?
Not sure..I bought it 15 years ago or so. Haven't seen one since. Did an internet search looks like Redfield used to make them.
.450 because I have one.
20 years later there's still not much love for the 450 Marlin. That's a shame, because it is one VERY underrated round. Never shot a .375-looks like a beauty, though: fast and very accurate. I have an unported 450 GG and it's a sledgehammer. Not fun (or cheap) to shoot, but ideal for large game hunting or defense (moose, elk, bear, pigs, alligators). It gets my vote.
The Marlin stock design seems designed to beat you up a bit.
@@north61 That's true. Put a thick recoil pad on mine & it still kicks harder than a 12 gauge.
What I thought was really cool was Remington brought back the .444 Marlin for Remington Marlin lever guns. I don’t want to really get into it, but Remington used all J.M. Marlin parts and workers until 2015. These are the years people called Remington Marlin Remlins when they were actually the last of the J.M. Marlin parts to be assembled in Connecticut. In 2016 Remington re engineered all the parts and produced them on close tolerance brand new CNC machines. Remington starting in 2016 made the best Marlin lever guns ever. I own a 2016 1895 CB 45-70 so I know.
So many choices lol
It's an embarrassment of riches.
375 Winchester for sure. In Africa one of the most used caliber’s 375 H&H has superior Ballistic coefficient and Sectional Density. It took nothing flat for that 375 Big Bore shot to make its target at 100 yards. Don’t sell it…👍
There's a huge difference between the 375 H&H and the 375 Winchester. You're talking apples and oranges. look up the ballistics of Both and educate yourself.
Remington pump in .35 whelen
I love the peep for shooting but for hunting rear semi buckhorn fits me perfect . dont have a 375 or 450 but i do have 45/70 and trip4 in jm marlin but my pick is a favorite of mine a dream rifle which i dont own is your old reliable winnie 71.
The ergonomics on the Win 71 I'd put at 100%, the 94 at 85% and the Marlin at 75%. Totally subjective but that's how they feel to me. Something about that 71 seems about perfect, but it's heavy and I'd hate subjecting it to that level of bush-busting. In that particular case compactness suddenly matters a lot!
I tried a peep on ny Big Bore .375. It shoots high with the factory front sight. But i tend to get some glare off of the buckhorn rear sight.
I have a real Marlin 336 in 35 rem. I have one in the 30-30 also. One from 61' and the other from 63' year. Do you know if the real Marlin made the 336c in a .375? Do you think the .375 is more powerful then the 35 rem? I found the 35 rem to be more then the 30-30.
Never mind. The .375 is non factory ammo, reloads only. Is that correct?
@@deadpresident78 I have a bunch of factory ammo..I don't know if it's still made. Marlin made some 375's I briefly owned one but it shot poorly. The 375 is loaded to 50,000 PSI so 2300 is possible with 220 grain bullets. Not sure the 35 could get there but if you loaded it up a bit the bigger case would take you close even at 38,000 PSI.
I've taken two bears with bows. I do have a 450 Marlin for back up tho. LOL.
Lol, quick follow up shots? You can get AR-10s in .450 Marlin, there’s no faster repeat shot than a semi-automatic (since commies passed the UnConstitutional NFA)…. I’m currently doing an AR-15 build, but after that will be an AR-10 build with two uppers, .450 Marlin and .308 Winchester with the .450 as bear defense for walking around in Alaska and the .308 will be for hunting smaller game, elk, deer, caribou (I will make a narrow pack about the size of a Camelbak Mule with a special side pocket to hold the spare upper and a bottom pocket for the mags to the barrel not in use, etc.)….
A lever can be very fast for folks that cycle it under recoil but of course a semi-auto is fine.
.450 will have more reloading options, though there's that band thing. Which gun is more reliable?
Can you tell us more about your time in polar bear country?
Do you find buckhorn sights to be faster?
No, I find the peep sight just a bit faster or a straight topped iron rear. The buckhorns are hard to index for me vertically and so take a little bit longer to align. At 10 feet it might not matter much though.
I vote for the Winchester 94 in 475 because I have one......
The .450 Marlin. .45 caliber has a bigger thud!! More knockdown power. Sort of the same as30-06 vs. 45-70.
450 marlin because bigger is always better when in bear country. 375 ruger would be my choice lol
That Ruger round is devastating! Speed with bullet weight is a combination that is hard for an animal to shake off.
450 marlin
Well, you can build an AR10 or an AR10 Upper in .450 Marlin, so it makes sense to go with a semi auto that holds 20+1 rounds of .450 Marlin…
BIG BOOM!!!
Marlin 450
450
So you're going on a sheep Hunt in Grizzly country. I'd take your 358 Norma Magnum.
While it's a great gun it's too heavy for me!
@@north61 Yeah I hear what you're saying
had some one shoot a black bear with the 375 win he clipped the top of the spine and the bullet slid down the off side under the hide i put the bear down a year latter when it was causing trouble and found the bullet so for normal hunting a lot of diff cal. will work only if you put the bullet in the right place but for defence use enough gun and put the bullet in the right place every time like E Keith said
The 45-70 Marlin is capable of 400 grains at 2000 + at near maximum pressure so why the 450 Marlin .The old 95 kind of makes it redundant.
Cause it's a JM marked ported beauty and I own it.... and it shoots 1" groups with 350 grain bullets. When I bought it the factory ammo from Hornady featured the 350 FP and it was a powerhouse round available in Canada. 45-70 available as loaded ammo in Canada was pitiful. In Nunavut it was almost impossible to ship primers and powder so reloading was tough. Now everything is a bit easier but why would I sell it to buy a 45-70, I can hit 2000 fps too? Always thought I might pick up a BLR and load it to 50,000PSI with pointed bullets. 450 Alaskan ballistics.
4590 420 grain at 2350 fps out of my 1886 if ur man enough
@@north61 Not a fan of the 45-70. I like the 450 Marlin. that's the rifle I would have.
My choice is easy... I only have the 450..
I think given your two selections the .450 would win out. Killing versus stopping power, must have stopping power and the .450 with a heavy bullet will do that better. Yes the .348 with 250 grain premium bullets and the. 405 Winchester as others remarked would be outstanding as well and are two of my personal favorite lever guns however they were not part of the options. 375BB vs .450 Marlin with heavy bullets the .450 will prove superior in STOPPING THAT BAD BEAR, WHILE THE .375BB WILL SURELY KILL HIM.
The 375 win is pretty much obsolete, I'd prefer the much more powerful 375 h&h...
With Gbear you may only get one shot so make it as devastating as possible. The 450 all day long. Mount a set of Ashley Outdoors sights
I have Ashley sights for it. Problem is the rifle shoots so well I keep putting a scope back on it. Can't seem to help myself.
@@north61 That's a good problem to have Greg. I'm torn between the traditional and functional. I have an SBL and a CBA in 45-70. Stiff loads of 460 Cast Performance or 400 bonded Woodleighs. Either way they meet your criteria of "cheeky little bastards". The SBL has Wild West replacement follower, trigger & ejector and a premium recoil pad. With the rail on the SBL and a scope in Warne QD rings I can scope it when I need the greater precision and remove it when walking through the thick stuff. For my Yukon walkabouts I usually pack this or a Ruger Hawkeye Guide gun in 375 Ruger with a 20" barrel. Would have opted for the 416 by like your son, I suffer from the southpaw curse.
@@haroldmilroy4489 I am ordering the WWG ejector tomorrow. How do you like it? Ck out today's video..I followed your lead.
@@north61 yup saw it. Looks really good. My age is showing. You’re right Ashley is now XS. One other option if you don’t like the full rail is I contacted XS and asked about shortening the rail and they said as long as I didn’t leave much more than a few inches of rail out past the receiver I’d be good. The ejector is a bit more positive at least on my rifle but it could still be more positive.
.350 Rem or I'm unsubscribing.
Kidding! Lolol
I'll have to pack 20 pounds of guns up there!
What about the Marlin model 375?
Have shot one but never owned one. I believe the top eject BB94 handles excess pressure a bit better.
.450 hands down !!
for any question, my answer is 450 Marlin AR-10, for example,
whats on your mind? "450 Marlin ar-10"...
what time is it? "450 Marlin ar-10 time"...
what do you love more than your wife? "450 Marlin ar-10"