Children are much more at risk in an conventional school bus or car as EV fires are way less likely as fires from vehicles with a combustion engine.... by far !
@@hanswallner2188 yeah yeah... We already heard that mantra. But there are facts: 1. The number of fires per 10,000 EVs was 1.3 last year in South Korea, compared with 1.9 for internal combustion engine-powered vehicles, according to the Science & Technology Policy Institute. 2. Every month we hear another bunch of news about DEVASTATING EV fires but no such accidents with ice cars, only "It started to burn and driver managed to extinguish fire with bottle of water/small fire extinguisher.
Yes, makes sense in cold climate as diesel carries a lot of energy density and if you use it for heating you get about 80 to 90 percent efficiency, when you use it to power an engine you get a real life efficiency of 20 percent or less. As batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper by the day diesel used for heating will go away in newer vehicles very soon. Cell price is now below 100 dollars, was 10 times more a few years ago.
@@hanswallner2188 Modern diesels are around 45+ percent efficiency. Heating from an engine is for free. Your 20 percent figure suggest you are either a troll or using early nineteens school book materials that was already outdated at that time. (li-ion) battery's are not getting cheaper, they are heavily subsidized and destroyers of this planet. it is the most polluting thing ever seen in the hands of a consumer. Cheaper in money value, possible, total destruction to the planet is the same. And no battery's are NOT 10 times cheaper than a few years ago. What does a troll job like you have get paid? Sounds interesting.
EV batteries on heavily salted roads in the Northeast, Great Lakes and Midwest going to make for some bad times in the future for firefighters. Every day could end up being like the saltwater hurricane woes seen in FL.
Nonsense, EV fires are way less likely than ICE fires, we are talking about 50 to 100 times less likey given the same amount of vehicles. Only the clueless would still bash against EVs.
Yep just stupid people making stupid decisions, you can buy 2 diesel buses or 1 electric bus so you choose the electric how stupid do you have to be. A diesel bus will do 300k miles + in its lifetime. How many battery packs need to be replaced to achieve the same mileage and don’t forget the cost to replace the battery pack . Diesel as far better suited for transport and far more reliable. Wake up people just imagine if that bus was full of your children. 😕
Thank God no one was injured! I am a retired power electronics engineer who did early BMS systems and on board level 2 chargers, etc. I learned to respect and yes, even fear Li Ion batteries. Was also a volunteer firefighter for 10 years. If you think we have problems now just wait until the "solid state " lithium metal cathode batteries begin deployment. In a major crash where the battery housing is breached, lithium metal can be exposed. As you know alkali metals behave violently releasing H2 caustic LiOH when water is applied. Any ideas how to successfully fight a fire like that would be much appreciated, as I have no clue.
Safety should be the priority with school buses, not some climate change nonsense to save putting CO2 into the atmosphere. Lets first force all politicians who support that, to drive EVs before we subject kids to what eventually will be a huge tragedy. Where a bus, that doesn't even get into an accident can just burst into flames with almost no time to get out.
Sodium ion trumps lithium. For stationary storage and for POV's. Don't talk to me about energy density. The city dwellers who hate emissions but only drive short distances so they "don't mind limited range" are the perfect end users. Quick charging. No worry about a garage full of them. More life cycles, less slave labor. Less Elon Musk, hopefully.
I remember the beta testing 'they' did on the public in 2020-2021. Nope, 'they' are dead serious, and yes, 'they' lie. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a 'learn and burn' scenario. Strength! GODspeed!
Our government…more worried about image than about our children. And of course they have to grease the palms of their supporters who cycle some of the grant money back to enrich the people who approve them, all the while trying to make it look like an honourable government program.
4:49 - "The state is working with the manufacturer and police to make sure the buses are safe." 1) Is the manufacturer going to tell you the product they are selling is unsafe? 2) What do cops know about electrical or mechanical issues? The problem is the subsidies. School districts simply do not have the foresight needed to pass up the temptation of so-called 'free' money (grants) used to pay 2X or 3X the cost of traditional buses. They also don't factor in the huge costs of charging stations, very limited range for routes, scheduling of drivers to fit said ranges to routes, power costs, charging times, spare parts, driver and mechanic training, etc.
As a former rural volunteer firefighter I am of the opinion that it is utter insanity to allow EV school busses. Over the years, school busses have evolved into transports that are about as safe as can be reasonably achieved, and they are quite safe for our children. Loading them up with thousands of pounds of energetic incendiaries is the height of irresponsibility. When the fire pager went off on weekdays during school bus hours, I would be running for my vehicle before the first of two tone sets finished while praying that it wasn't for a school bus incident. I cannot even imagine being in a district with EV busses. Our district was 90 square miles. It is a given that the fastest we could arrive at a scene was 7 or 8 minutes, but sometimes it was up to 14 to 16 minutes. Imagine the extra carnage that can occur in that much time with an EV powered vehicle. It does not bear thinking about, yet some disregard the facts in order to engage in virtue signaling. The question is not whether or not there will be a disaster, but when.
Fun fact.... In the 60s most busses were powered by gasoline... Because diesel engines were too expensive.. They had an incident where a gasoline bus caught fire and children perished... The industry as a whole removed gas busses from use because diesel does burn but won't explode without cumbustion. Lithium just needs an unstable environment or a little bit of water to cause a fire hotter than a welding arc, you be the judge.
Speed of the bus isn't the problem. The speed with which the fire spread means that even at a stand still. Probably not all the kids will get out without injury from a fully loaded bus.
@@Ghauster I think the point that Keith is making is image one of those buses travelling at 60 mph on a busy highway, then bursting into flames. Then imagine over 50 children trying to evacuate that burning bus on the busy highway!
@@Ghauster The point might have been that it takes time to stop. A parked bus can be evacuated faster than a bus speeding along the highway. These battery fires give very little warning. That video of a guy carrying a battery on an elevator is a perfect example of how fast it happens.
@@dieselfunk65 They have to go out the back exit as the battery's are at the front of the bus so they would not be able to go out the front door. And for anyone who has not seen a battery fire it is very fast and very hot and smokey
Sadly yes it will happen somewhere, not neccessarily with these Busses but an EV of some sort. Until then the Net Zero lunatics will continue their flawed agenda. If their closest are at the forefront of such an event maybe just maybe their agenda might change.
@@yodaiam1000 I have spent years looking at these stats they have changed alot since about 2018, either because of governments controlling the narrative or possibly a single EV fire taking out hundreds of ICE cars as we saw in Seoul. Either way the official stats still show diesel to be safer than electric with Hybrid being the most likely to combust just ahead of gas/petrol. This doesn't take into account the age of vehicles with ICE vehicles on the whole being much older.
A fire in the front would block exiting from the front door that has stairs. If little kids were onboard, someone would have to open the rear emergency door, and the kids would have to jump out. It’s a tragedy waiting to happen.
The rear exit evacuation is something that is routinely practiced in school districts and mandated by states. Children are instructed to sit on the floor and slide out. The exercise is safe if properly performed. I’m a driver and have never experienced any injuries while performing the drill.
@@patbullard9276 But, if there is an actual fire, then the kids aren't going to calmly exit the bus in the same manner. As fast as these EV fires spread, it would be a disaster if it happens with a fully loaded bus.
In Seattle we're charging headlong into a 100% electric bus Fleet by 2030. That's public transit we carry lots of kids and elderly including people in wheelchairs. I fear the day one of these new buses gos up in flames.
One day one will. Where I live on reasonably flat territory we have some Electric Public Busses, I know here all the Emergency exits are and took notice how to open them. There appears to be a fist operated plunger that will hit the glass when punched with the base of the fist. Assuming that will work like the spring loaded Centre punch used by Firefighters to break car windows.
@@PeterGardner-e1zThere are fist operated plungers involved with EV buses alright but it involves the last three letters of glass. That's what is happening.
Electric school buses in our school systems is a extremely bad idea. I can't believe what idiots would do this, and these people work for the schools . Who payed them to do this ?
Our city council wants to put Lithium Phosphate (LifePO4) battery storage units in our La Mesa, CA neighborhood with houses just feet away. Please help by signing this petition below. It is free to sign.
Good luck with that. I'm in the UK (West Yorkshire, in the north of England), and a local village two miles from where I live has been fighting for three years to get plans for a similar huge installation just a couple of hundred yards from houses, a school, and (horrors!) a 15th century pub, to be scrapped. Their petition was politely ignored, but a series of loud and angry protests (cleverly involving the local news media) gained them a special enquiry which resulted in the firm concerned promising to increase the separation between the units to allow better access for fire-fighting crews (to put out the fires they assured us were impossible and could NEVER happen with their amazing tech and monitoring systems). They again stressed the absolute safety of their energy storage technology. The footprint of the monstrosity increased considerably. Barely a month later a similar installation (overseas) caught fire and was destroyed after spreading toxic fumes far and wide. I wish you well in your fight.🙂
LiPO4 is theoretically safer than LiNMC for example. But a few years back an LiPO4 BESS at a shopping mall in China killed 2 firefighters. An additional employee was listed as "missing" which might be Chinese New Speak for vaporized?
At least those are the much safer kind of battery. They take quite a bit of abuse compared to Li-Ion to show serious issues. Albeit if memory serves right... they do also enter thermal runaway.
@@Kalvinjj If LifeP04 batteries are exposed to a fire, added mechanical shocks, decomposed, added electric stress by miss-use, the gas release vent will be operated. The battery cell case will be breached and hazardous materials may be released. If the electrolyte contacts with water, it will generate detrimental hydrogen fluoride. They want to put the battery storage in a flood zone. Not safe so near houses.
@@tieresa1 Mechanical shocks and misuse would definitely be something not be worried on a stationary application. But damn is it stupid to want to install electrical battery storage to a flood zone. That idea I just cannot understand how did anyone came up with.
@@stephenwood9687 People transports in general should not have this bs happening. There are safety standards for a reason, look at the video. There it is. Plenty of European CNG busses has exploded or had faults turning the gas tank into flame throwers since introductions. Idiotic. School buses shouldn't even be a topic for discussion thus a non-problem from the start
I would absolutely NEVER have an EV. / Lithium Ion battery vehicle. Too many ship fires, too many garage fires, now a school bus. Thank goodness no one was killed. What else are those batteries in ???
Yes, they are, don' get fooled by selective reporting. If you look into that topic you will quickly find out that EV fires are a very rare event, about 50 to 100 times less likely than ICE fires.
@@hanswallner2188No they will never reach the break even point on cost versus a standard bus and they really are not necessary except for the fact they are being forced instead of people making the choice of whether it fits their needs or not.
@@hanswallner2188they are not. Just a bit of info about your "10-100 times" lies: "The number of fires per 10,000 EVs was 1.3 last year in South Korea, compared with 1.9 for internal combustion engine-powered vehicles, according to the Science & Technology Policy Institute." Not even near to ten times.
Have there ever been any look at how safe Hybrid Buses or Natural Gas Or Diesel Buses are in comparison? Like a per 100,000 incident rating? I’m glad the children were off the bus and the driver was able to get out safely
Combustion is evil, it must be stopped. That’s the rally cry of the terrorist green movement. They eschew all reality and knowledge to force everyone to attempt to live in their dream world.
@ well, I’ve had a rusty diesel tank on my property with leaks underneath it for 40 years, full the tractor while having a smoke. I feel pretty safe. And does the fire stats cover the veracity of the fire, the consequences of it? Fire just ain’t fire. And fires in new cars or really old unmaintained dodgy wiring rust buckets or sabotage? You may be right, but I just don’t see it.
@ well the “propaganda” you are referring to would be amount of fires per x amount of miles driven , seeing as most vehicles are relatively new and relatively well maintained I would say its the fact that vehicles that burn a volatile flammable chemical tend to have more issues than vehicles that have a reasonably stable battery that unless damaged is generally not going to cause a problem
The bus is pure bureaucratic "genius" and greenwashing at its best. EV bus with diesel heater is idiotic by itself. But to use it in cold climate rural area with heavily salted roads is next level. Especially if you consider that modern diesel with DPF offers only advantages, likely including better emissions because of the heater. This could have been horrific disaster almost on par with Kaprun disaster in some unlucky circumstances.
DPF and EGR is a very poor way to get what the government wants. There are companies that make aftermarket parts that make a diesel run just as well without the DPF and EGR.
@@jamesphillips2285 If you're talking about the Edison truck, it can run without DPF, because the load on the engine can be increased gradually, allowing time for the turbo to spool and supply enough air to reduce the amount of soot the engine produces, but that wont work without their hybrid system.
@@jamesphillips2285 If you're talking about a certain truck being developed in Canada, it can run without DPF, because the load on the engine can be increased gradually, allowing time for the turbo to spool and supply enough air to reduce the amount of soot the engine produces, but that wont work without their hybrid system.
You can't make this up, there in Europe "electric" firetrucks that carry a generator. Since the battery is expected to be totally drained within 90 minutes.
Entrusting children to these absurd traps is crazy. Safety first, then a diesel bus can also catch fire, but the engine is in the back and I believe there is always the possibility of evacuating it safely. In addition to the fact that it costs the community a third of an electric one.
Actually the engine is in the front. Diesel though is far safer than electric. And far easier to extinguish. Buses though are VERY unsafe means of trasportation. Most do not even have seat belts,, and if they allow 3 to 2 seats defenitly not. Is there an answer?? Not totally BUT proper seating, proper side impact beams and rollover protection does make an unsafe vehicle less unsafe
@@MUUKOW3 It does and they suck. They stuck us seniors on a bus that was setup to hold K-3. We could hardly get the bars to latch and the driver wouldn't move until they all were. As I was already over 18. I told the driver to get lost and walked off the bus.
I’m not an auto engineer by any means, but is it possible the bus ran over something in the road, which scratched the battery? I’m assuming the bus had the battery on the bottom like a Tesla does.
3:16 *_Four_* battery packs, not *_one._* The rear-most pack would be the most-likely to suffer a puncture, because it is the furthest from the wheels.
It is somewhat likely but the battery packs under the bus should be quite tough and impact resistant. Should is the operating word here. But we are talking rural Canada in winter. Salty water and snow slurry getting into the battery pack or shorting the inverters in front is even more likely. Especially considering Lion seems quite incompetent. BTW slapping few battery packs, inverters and electric axle on a bought bus chassis is probably the easiest possible EV design imaginable on par with short range postal van.
I would rather go with a gradual wearing down of the battery casing, in order for a single event to really damage the undercarriage of a car, or a bus, it would take running over gravel at high speeds to really do some damage to a vehicle undercarriage, and even then, not a single event most likely, I would agree with someone who figures gradual salt corrosion an/or sand on the roads from the roads being given salt and/or sand to melt ice and snow on the roads, which happens often in colder rural areas.
Q: is it possible the bus ran over something in the road, which scratched the battery? A: yes, i've seen low mounted radiators "speared" by road debris. what can poke a radiator can likely poke a battery box. iirc this has already happened to a few early Model S' which is why back in 2014 a Titanium "bash plate" was fitted at the front of the battery pack.
Have you much experience of driving any to come to your conclusion? In 7 years driving EV's I've found the opposite, near super car performance, good technology, minimal servicing and very cheap to run.
@@jamesrader3329 Well it comes with an 8 year warranty and I sell long before then. I only tend to keep my cars three to four years. With so few moving parts all my EV's have been 100% reliable. Telling that you don't meantion your EV experience!
@@jimf4748 few moving parts??? Have you ever worked on a battery powered car. There's a ton of moving part and a very complex electrical system to manage the battery and the power to drive the motors. They just aren't safe in accidents. Pray you never get in one because the fire is so intense and happens so quickly your chances of making it out are slim compared to a gas car and that's if you aren't knocked unconscious. Good luck though.
They say that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Despite all of the serious problems that school district in Maine has experienced with Lion Electric buses, they want to keep using them.
Some of the problems with the Lion ev buses are similar to the Thomas C2 electric buses that we have at our district. We have had electric parking brake problems, charging problems and A/c problems. We have had to take drivers another bus so they can finish their route. I wish we had the option to go back to diesel in California.
I’m in the mid Atlantic. Our city got a bunch of electric buses. They are already have cold issues even with our mild winters The buses batteries where soupost to last all day with a 50% charge reserve. They have to be recharged during the mid day know
So it's 0 emissions but uses diesel for climatization... Also why using EVs in rural areas? Aren't they supposed to lower city pollution? Seems to me it's not the best use for that type of propulsion system.
The depots for the bus nowadays have the charging and/or refueling equipment for the bus. Usually a school bus makes a round trip involving going to the school, then dropping off the kids on a route, then returning to the depot. I’m sure that’s the least of the issues for the bus if the route is well planned with possible detours.
I live in Maine. Funny on how all the news reports on these Lion busses never mention the diesel fueled heater. Sad thing is the wonderful federal government hasn't let them be released from the duration requirement they signed to get the funding. So our kids will be put at risk. I hope one never goes up with kids on board but when it does happen. I hope they sue the town, state, fed and manufacturer for the unsafe conditions they put them in.
She just didn’t know , just like trump and Covid , injecting bleach….well on second thought , my 6 yr old grandson knows not to consume bleach, or anything with that scary label.
For an extra $240,000, assuming $4/gal diesel, they would have to save 60,000 gallons of diesel to make that up. Assuming 4 mi/gal, they would have to put 240,000 miles on each bus. So, maybe (rural route) is 100 miles/ day, times (5 days/week × 40 weeks = ) 200 days = 20,000 miles/year = 12 years to break even. Not accounting for diesel maintenance (favors EV) or cost of electricity (disfavors EV). The lifespan of an average bus is about that, and probably less in the rural northeast. So, there is no savings. And I think I've been generous to the electrics.
I think it is a huge risk allowing these electric buses to transport children, especially on rural routes. They should rather stick to old-school diesel buses (pun intended) which is cheaper, have a much better track record, and is safer of course. An ICE fire will give the children time to evacuate, but the speed with which an electric bus gets burning, is just horrifying, and this will cause a tragedy when there are children onboard, especially disabled children. Also - how safe and protected are those batteries in a physical traffic accident should a car drive by accident into the bus? And this will happen still, no matter what you do. Disclaimer : South African here, watching with unease the proliferation of EV's without due consideration of human safety as well as environmental safety.
@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes yep ever try to take a torch to some? It takes a minute to warm it up before it will ignite. Diesel was discovered to ignite under pressure / high heat.
I agree. I have no problem with EV's if you want one. I don't want Lithium Ion batteries in them. If you park one in your garage next door to me, it's still a fire threat to my house and my life if I'm sleeping.
It also seems like these buses were designed to meet the absolute bear minimum, right when the last student was being dropped off. This is completely unexpectable
What about the effects of road salt working it’s way into the electrical systems of an EV? Would it not be the same as the vehicle being flooded in salt water
As a former school bus driver, a Mom, and a Grandmother, those things Scare the 💩 out of me! And I have experienced an on board fire, with Wheel Chair students on board. Myself and a parent wereable to successfully evaluate all students , but if it had went as fast as that bus.......I didn't know how it would have worked out.
2 to 3 times the price for a diesel bus. This electric scam needs to end. We don't have enough electricity for everything already and the minerals to make the batteries are not "green" !
No, the buses are not worth the risk. They aren't even worth having as buses. They might have the range to do their daily job, but when I was in school (eons ago), school buses were used for field trips and one time they were used to evacuate residents from a flash flood risk zone. The buses had to be brought in and out to pick up residents and take them to safety. If those had been electric buses, first, the water level they had to drive through would have gotten into the battery packs. Besides the water ingress to the batteries, if those buses that evacuated us to safety had to be recharged multiple times due to the back and forth continual driving, many people would not have been evacuated. I simply do not trust electric buses/mass transportation that rely only on the batteries to store energy for the motors. Imagine that school bus carrying kids to school, or having to be used to evacuate people and pets spark off and go into thermal runaway with all those people onboard. It would be a mass casualty event with how fast those batteries go off.
At a difference in cost of $250,000 - $300.00 over diesel buses and the problems electric buses are having, I think school boards should put that money into education rather then an unsafe system based on unproven research.
Over the years, we have seen many fire hazards outlawed! The issue with electric vehicles is that politicians who don't see or don't care about the dangers are still promoting these nightmares.
I believe that these busses are acquired through fed grants. Just imagine the gov wants to force business to purchase these vehicles and deal with all of the issues out of their own pockets
There are 380 school bus fires in the US each year according to google. I wonder what the ratio is between battery and diesel bus fires in relationship to how many of each there are? I am on the fence on this one. If there is less likelihood of a fire but a higher risk of injury or death, how does that balance out in injuries and fatalities? I couldn't find hard statistics on this easily. I suspect there must be a way to engineer it to give more time to escape in the lower risk of a battery fire? Definitely needs to be looked at though. Perhaps something like the NTSB system for forcing corrective measure on airlines can be done for school buses?
Glad you brought out the price of the yellow bombs. Education about dangers of electric vehicles is important. Safety features not working,on a school bus? Who approved the use of yhem?
I tried to drive a 1957 or 9 Chevy pickup truck once. No power steering on that truck from when it was rolled off the assembly line. This was in 1981, and I had seen my aunt drive a similar truck a few years earlier. She complained about how hard it was to steer without power steering, but it looked to me like she was able to make her turns just fine. So I figured I would be able to drive that Chevy pickup with just a little more "oomph." Yeah no. Thankfully I was test driving in a safe practice place, because I didn't have the strength to turn the wheel. My aunt is smaller than me, but she was a farm girl, and I was a skinny city girl. I guess you have to build up those muscles over a lifetime to have the strength to drive an old vehicle that doesn't have power steering. I wouldn't allow my child to board a bus that was known to lose power steering!
Most vehicles fitted with power steering can be driven if the assist stops. Though on these modern buses maybe not. Either an electric driven hydraulic pump or fully electric assist . In practice both can be still driven. Electric assist can freeze up. But still very uncommon.
Losing power steering on your vehicle is pretty bad, fortunately for me, when I drove an old Saturn Ion and the Power Steering went off, I was on a hill and coasted down the hill to park and call for towing of the car. Also, I suspect the bus got punctured and/or corroded in the undercarriage which caused the fire.
oh my gawd, $400k for systems that i dont see minimal known safeguards. just having an airtight steel shield prrvents and contains most lithium fire potential. one bus at a time... most evs are tested and safe, these appear to be back yard converions? sometimes it ends up better and dafer for much less but a youtubing backyard manufacturing process involved rigorous testing before others ride it. they know to do this before kids get involved, wtf happened here?
The driver barely had time to get himself out? Can you imagine the massive tragedy if this had happened with 72 children aboard!
Heaven forbid however alas it's just a question of time. I would not let my kids go in an EV nevermind a Electric Chinese Bus !
Totally unacceptable risk!
Herself out
@@derbotch yes, I too remember it being a lady driver of this bus
@@GrrMeister Unfortunately, indeed just a matter of time 😞
Based on what you have presented, I would say they are not worth putting children and drivers at risk. Thank you for keeping us informed 👍
Children are much more at risk in an conventional school bus or car as EV fires are way less likely as fires from vehicles with a combustion engine.... by far !
@@hanswallner2188 Hell no. Standard ICE busses are far safer unless you're in a non-ventilated garage, which is never
@@hanswallner2188 yeah yeah... We already heard that mantra.
But there are facts:
1. The number of fires per 10,000 EVs was 1.3 last year in South Korea, compared with 1.9 for internal combustion engine-powered vehicles, according to the Science & Technology Policy Institute.
2. Every month we hear another bunch of news about DEVASTATING EV fires but no such accidents with ice cars, only "It started to burn and driver managed to extinguish fire with bottle of water/small fire extinguisher.
@@hanswallner2188 EV fires are slightly more common then ICE fires. 0.98 vs 0.90 per 100,000. Get your facts straight.
No passengers should be put at risk.
So it's an electric bus that still burns diesel fuel lol 👏🏻😂😂
So there goes that line about it being a zero emissions vehicle... right out the window!
Electric vehicles technically burn coal anyways. Lol
Yes, makes sense in cold climate as diesel carries a lot of energy density and if you use it for heating you get about 80 to 90 percent efficiency, when you use it to power an engine you get a real life efficiency of 20 percent or less. As batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper by the day diesel used for heating will go away in newer vehicles very soon. Cell price is now below 100 dollars, was 10 times more a few years ago.
@@hanswallner2188 Modern diesels are around 45+ percent efficiency. Heating from an engine is for free.
Your 20 percent figure suggest you are either a troll or using early nineteens school book materials that was already outdated at that time.
(li-ion) battery's are not getting cheaper, they are heavily subsidized and destroyers of this planet. it is the most polluting thing ever seen in the hands of a consumer.
Cheaper in money value, possible, total destruction to the planet is the same. And no battery's are NOT 10 times cheaper than a few years ago.
What does a troll job like you have get paid? Sounds interesting.
Not in Canada they don’t, that’s why electricity here is referred to as “hydro” as in hydro electric power generation.
EV batteries on heavily salted roads in the Northeast, Great Lakes and Midwest going to make for some bad times in the future for firefighters.
Every day could end up being like the saltwater hurricane woes seen in FL.
Don't say that! Road salting will be forbidden to save the planet and... the electric delirium...
@@OttoTetrazzini There are EVs all over Canadian and Northern European roads without an issue.
Waste of money and a danger as well ! Shows those in charge don't care about children !
It's about being environmentally friendly. Less people, less environmental impact! 🤔
Nonsense, EV fires are way less likely than ICE fires, we are talking about 50 to 100 times less likey given the same amount of vehicles. Only the clueless would still bash against EVs.
Yep just stupid people making stupid decisions, you can buy 2 diesel buses or 1 electric bus so you choose the electric how stupid do you have to be. A diesel bus will do 300k miles + in its lifetime. How many battery packs need to be replaced to achieve the same mileage and don’t forget the cost to replace the battery pack . Diesel as far better suited for transport and far more reliable. Wake up people just imagine if that bus was full of your children. 😕
@hanswallner2188 of course they're less likely when they blame battery fires on other stuff like the diesel heater. Did you even watch the video? 🤦♂️
@@hanswallner2188Only the clueless would still think they are the way .
As the Lithium-Ion battery risks continue to be grossly understated. Fitting name for the bus manufacturer - Lie-on!!!
Battery safety issues are generally overstated since it is big news. No one cares about an ICEV fire.
Need dry cell batteries
@@arthur1670 Do you mean solid state batteries?
@ good point dry cell means something else
@@user-rj6sd5lj9o I think you meant overstated. The news sees an EV fire and goes gang busters.
Nice work and research. Not that they'll admit it.
Lucky lucky kids.
Thank God no one was injured!
I am a retired power electronics engineer who did early BMS systems and on board level 2 chargers, etc. I learned to respect and yes, even fear Li Ion batteries. Was also a volunteer firefighter for 10 years. If you think we have problems now just wait until the "solid state " lithium metal cathode batteries begin deployment. In a major crash where the battery housing is breached, lithium metal can be exposed. As you know alkali metals behave violently releasing H2 caustic LiOH when water is applied. Any ideas how to successfully fight a fire like that would be much appreciated, as I have no clue.
Errr make that Lithium Metal Anode.
Wow. I thought solid state eliminated (virtually) the thermal runaway risk.
No expert opinions please, much better to hear from an office worker who was duped into buying an EV.
Safety should be the priority with school buses, not some climate change nonsense to save putting CO2 into the atmosphere. Lets first force all politicians who support that, to drive EVs before we subject kids to what eventually will be a huge tragedy. Where a bus, that doesn't even get into an accident can just burst into flames with almost no time to get out.
Sodium ion trumps lithium. For stationary storage and for POV's. Don't talk to me about energy density. The city dwellers who hate emissions but only drive short distances so they "don't mind limited range" are the perfect end users. Quick charging. No worry about a garage full of them. More life cycles, less slave labor. Less Elon Musk, hopefully.
Lion Electrique: "Beta-testing our tech on YOUR kids so that WE learn as THEY learn."
Hmm. They ain't lyin'.
I remember the beta testing 'they' did on the public in 2020-2021. Nope, 'they' are dead serious, and yes, 'they' lie. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a 'learn and burn' scenario. Strength! GODspeed!
And for your expense. Awesome business.
Our government…more worried about image than about our children. And of course they have to grease the palms of their supporters who cycle some of the grant money back to enrich the people who approve them, all the while trying to make it look like an honourable government program.
4:49 - "The state is working with the manufacturer and police to make sure the buses are safe." 1) Is the manufacturer going to tell you the product they are selling is unsafe? 2) What do cops know about electrical or mechanical issues?
The problem is the subsidies. School districts simply do not have the foresight needed to pass up the temptation of so-called 'free' money (grants) used to pay 2X or 3X the cost of traditional buses. They also don't factor in the huge costs of charging stations, very limited range for routes, scheduling of drivers to fit said ranges to routes, power costs, charging times, spare parts, driver and mechanic training, etc.
Tax payer funded.
Lion electric place itself under bankruptcy law.
As a former rural volunteer firefighter I am of the opinion that it is utter insanity to allow EV school busses. Over the years, school busses have evolved into transports that are about as safe as can be reasonably achieved, and they are quite safe for our children. Loading them up with thousands of pounds of energetic incendiaries is the height of irresponsibility. When the fire pager went off on weekdays during school bus hours, I would be running for my vehicle before the first of two tone sets finished while praying that it wasn't for a school bus incident. I cannot even imagine being in a district with EV busses. Our district was 90 square miles. It is a given that the fastest we could arrive at a scene was 7 or 8 minutes, but sometimes it was up to 14 to 16 minutes. Imagine the extra carnage that can occur in that much time with an EV powered vehicle. It does not bear thinking about, yet some disregard the facts in order to engage in virtue signaling. The question is not whether or not there will be a disaster, but when.
time to say no to the green movement
Fun fact.... In the 60s most busses were powered by gasoline... Because diesel engines were too expensive.. They had an incident where a gasoline bus caught fire and children perished... The industry as a whole removed gas busses from use because diesel does burn but won't explode without cumbustion. Lithium just needs an unstable environment or a little bit of water to cause a fire hotter than a welding arc, you be the judge.
Hard to believe they're putting little kids in those things. The fires spread so fast. Imagine a bus going 60 MPH full of kids.
Speed of the bus isn't the problem. The speed with which the fire spread means that even at a stand still. Probably not all the kids will get out without injury from a fully loaded bus.
@@Ghauster I think the point that Keith is making is image one of those buses travelling at 60 mph on a busy highway, then bursting into flames. Then imagine over 50 children trying to evacuate that burning bus on the busy highway!
@@Ghauster The point might have been that it takes time to stop. A parked bus can be evacuated faster than a bus speeding along the highway. These battery fires give very little warning. That video of a guy carrying a battery on an elevator is a perfect example of how fast it happens.
@@dieselfunk65 They have to go out the back exit as the battery's are at the front of the bus so they would not be able to go out the front door. And for anyone who has not seen a battery fire it is very fast and very hot and smokey
And the smoke is deadly.
The looks and pollution of net zero.
No reviews of electric buses will be undertaken until a mass casualty event involving passengers in the bus takes place.
There will be a major disaster with these busses, it’s when not if.
Sadly yes it will happen somewhere, not neccessarily with these Busses but an EV of some sort. Until then the Net Zero lunatics will continue their flawed agenda. If their closest are at the forefront of such an event maybe just maybe their agenda might change.
@@iancarrington1967 A properly designed EV bus is just as safe if not safer than diesel.
Safer than diesel? You must have been fooled into buying an EV, that is a shame but don't try to take others down with you.
@@OM617a Just look at the stats for car fires. It’s just a fact.
@@yodaiam1000 I have spent years looking at these stats they have changed alot since about 2018, either because of governments controlling the narrative or possibly a single EV fire taking out hundreds of ICE cars as we saw in Seoul.
Either way the official stats still show diesel to be safer than electric with Hybrid being the most likely to combust just ahead of gas/petrol. This doesn't take into account the age of vehicles with ICE vehicles on the whole being much older.
A fire in the front would block exiting from the front door that has stairs. If little kids were onboard, someone would have to open the rear emergency door, and the kids would have to jump out. It’s a tragedy waiting to happen.
The rear exit evacuation is something that is routinely practiced in school districts and mandated by states. Children are instructed to sit on the floor and slide out. The exercise is safe if properly performed. I’m a driver and have never experienced any injuries while performing the drill.
@@patbullard9276 But, if there is an actual fire, then the kids aren't going to calmly exit the bus in the same manner. As fast as these EV fires spread, it would be a disaster if it happens with a fully loaded bus.
In Seattle we're charging headlong into a 100% electric bus Fleet by 2030. That's public transit we carry lots of kids and elderly including people in wheelchairs. I fear the day one of these new buses gos up in flames.
I'm glad I moved away from Seattle !
One day one will. Where I live on reasonably flat territory we have some Electric Public Busses, I know here all the Emergency exits are and took notice how to open them. There appears to be a fist operated plunger that will hit the glass when punched with the base of the fist. Assuming that will work like the spring loaded Centre punch used by Firefighters to break car windows.
@@PeterGardner-e1zThere are fist operated plungers involved with EV buses alright but it involves the last three letters of glass. That's what is happening.
another cyber truck caught fire just before the vegas explosion, apparently there's a battery recall but it's a "quiet" recall 🤣
And a tesla autolocked on 2 guys same day as Vegas, they pulled over after it smoked and had to break the windows out
🎶🎼 ..the wheels on the bus go round and round, 🎵🎶 ..until the bus goes into thermal runaway. 🎵🎶🎼 Strength! GODspeed!
😂
.....the batteries on the bus go whoosh, whoosh, boom.....
@@andyharman3022 lol Grab your safety blanket! NO RUN! lol Strength! GODspeed!
Lion just delivered their first electric Ambulance in Montreal. They laid off another 150 workers today.
Electric school buses in our school systems is a extremely bad idea. I can't believe what idiots would do this, and these people work for the schools . Who payed them to do this ?
Definitely not worth the risk.
It’s time to return to safe, reliable diesel powered buses and other motor vehicles .
Both CNG and gasoline would be better choices, diesels cause respiratory problems.
Our city council wants to put Lithium Phosphate (LifePO4) battery storage units in our La Mesa, CA neighborhood with houses just feet away. Please help by signing this petition below. It is free to sign.
Good luck with that. I'm in the UK (West Yorkshire, in the north of England), and a local village two miles from where I live has been fighting for three years to get plans for a similar huge installation just a couple of hundred yards from houses, a school, and (horrors!) a 15th century pub, to be scrapped.
Their petition was politely ignored, but a series of loud and angry protests (cleverly involving the local news media) gained them a special enquiry which resulted in the firm concerned promising to increase the separation between the units to allow better access for fire-fighting crews (to put out the fires they assured us were impossible and could NEVER happen with their amazing tech and monitoring systems). They again stressed the absolute safety of their energy storage technology.
The footprint of the monstrosity increased considerably. Barely a month later a similar installation (overseas) caught fire and was destroyed after spreading toxic fumes far and wide.
I wish you well in your fight.🙂
LiPO4 is theoretically safer than LiNMC for example. But a few years back an LiPO4 BESS at a shopping mall in China killed 2 firefighters. An additional employee was listed as "missing" which might be Chinese New Speak for vaporized?
At least those are the much safer kind of battery. They take quite a bit of abuse compared to Li-Ion to show serious issues.
Albeit if memory serves right... they do also enter thermal runaway.
@@Kalvinjj If LifeP04 batteries are exposed to a fire, added mechanical shocks, decomposed, added electric stress by miss-use, the gas release vent will be operated. The battery cell case will be breached and hazardous materials may be released. If the electrolyte contacts with water, it will generate detrimental hydrogen fluoride. They want to put the battery storage in a flood zone. Not safe so near houses.
@@tieresa1 Mechanical shocks and misuse would definitely be something not be worried on a stationary application.
But damn is it stupid to want to install electrical battery storage to a flood zone.
That idea I just cannot understand how did anyone came up with.
NO EV buses for child transport!! Can you imagine the horror if a EV Bus full of kids ignited. Even the relaxed Canadians would go crazy.
So that ought to be no EV buses then, as kids get on all kind of buses not just school buses.
Sadly it will probably take a few mass casualty events before the authorities see sense. Madness.
Sadly it will probably take a few mass casualty events before the authorities see sense. Madness.
Don't be ridiculous, EVs fires are 50 to 100 times less likely than ICE fires, don't be fooled by selective reporting.
@@stephenwood9687
People transports in general should not have this bs happening. There are safety standards for a reason, look at the video. There it is. Plenty of European CNG busses has exploded or had faults turning the gas tank into flame throwers since introductions. Idiotic. School buses shouldn't even be a topic for discussion thus a non-problem from the start
Electric buses in general are not worth the risk, school kids or adults. The politicians who adhere to this E.V. mantra, pay no price for being wrong.
Keep haulin' diesel!
I would absolutely NEVER have an EV. / Lithium Ion battery vehicle. Too many ship fires, too many garage fires, now a school bus. Thank goodness no one was killed. What else are those batteries in ???
most rechargeable devices have those batteries
NO! Electric buses are NOT the answer.
Yes, they are, don' get fooled by selective reporting. If you look into that topic you will quickly find out that EV fires are a very rare event, about 50 to 100 times less likely than ICE fires.
@@hanswallner2188 Yes, because there are so many more ICE vehicles at this point.
@@hanswallner2188No they will never reach the break even point on cost versus a standard bus and they really are not necessary except for the fact they are being forced instead of people making the choice of whether it fits their needs or not.
@@hanswallner2188they are not.
Just a bit of info about your "10-100 times" lies:
"The number of fires per 10,000 EVs was 1.3 last year in South Korea, compared with 1.9 for internal combustion engine-powered vehicles, according to the Science & Technology Policy Institute."
Not even near to ten times.
@ - You might fool some of the people some of the time, but your selling tripe and I am not buying!
Have there ever been any look at how safe Hybrid Buses or Natural Gas Or Diesel Buses are in comparison? Like a per 100,000 incident rating? I’m glad the children were off the bus and the driver was able to get out safely
Combustion is evil, it must be stopped. That’s the rally cry of the terrorist green movement. They eschew all reality and knowledge to force everyone to attempt to live in their dream world.
The latest propaganda successfully gaining ground is EVs catch fire LESS than normal vehicles.
@@Bluepilled-c5tum thats not propaganda that would be the truth, you can run the numbers yourself if you like
@ well, I’ve had a rusty diesel tank on my property with leaks underneath it for 40 years, full the tractor while having a smoke. I feel pretty safe. And does the fire stats cover the veracity of the fire, the consequences of it? Fire just ain’t fire. And fires in new cars or really old unmaintained dodgy wiring rust buckets or sabotage? You may be right, but I just don’t see it.
@ well the “propaganda” you are referring to would be amount of fires per x amount of miles driven , seeing as most vehicles are relatively new and relatively well maintained I would say its the fact that vehicles that burn a volatile flammable chemical tend to have more issues than vehicles that have a reasonably stable battery that unless damaged is generally not going to cause a problem
The bus is pure bureaucratic "genius" and greenwashing at its best. EV bus with diesel heater is idiotic by itself. But to use it in cold climate rural area with heavily salted roads is next level. Especially if you consider that modern diesel with DPF offers only advantages, likely including better emissions because of the heater.
This could have been horrific disaster almost on par with Kaprun disaster in some unlucky circumstances.
DPF and EGR is a very poor way to get what the government wants. There are companies that make aftermarket parts that make a diesel run just as well without the DPF and EGR.
@@Ghauster Apparently Scania makes OEM engines without a DPF. Still uses EGR I believe.
@@GhausterReally? What companies are those? How do their products work?
@@jamesphillips2285 If you're talking about the Edison truck, it can run without DPF, because the load on the engine can be increased gradually, allowing time for the turbo to spool and supply enough air to reduce the amount of soot the engine produces, but that wont work without their hybrid system.
@@jamesphillips2285 If you're talking about a certain truck being developed in Canada, it can run without DPF, because the load on the engine can be increased gradually, allowing time for the turbo to spool and supply enough air to reduce the amount of soot the engine produces, but that wont work without their hybrid system.
I am amazed but glad no children were hurt and the driver survived. This serves as a warning as we have seen tofu construction in China.
Illinois is spending $20M on electric school buses. Demoncraps are insane. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Illinois is where the Lion US factory is located. Follow the money to the Governor.
excellent report
Lmao. Diesel heater, what’s next diesel generator to power bus 😂
We already invented that, it works quite well, it's called a diesel-electric train...
They have that at Tesla charging stations lol
You're laughing but it is the future imo. Look up edisson motors
@@RedPillRachelits called Elefant, Porsche made WWII tank hunter based on failed Tiger chassis.
You can't make this up, there in Europe "electric" firetrucks that carry a generator. Since the battery is expected to be totally drained within 90 minutes.
The fact autorities lie to protect the reputation of lithium ion battery vehicule is VERY CONCERNING
Authorities actually receive campaign funding from the fossil fuel and oil industry.
Does anyone get the irony of an electric vehicle with a diesel heater.
They’re not even worth the effort let alone the risk.
If you actually looked up how diesel heaters work you would know that they burn hardly any fuel to do their job
@@itsajeepthing82 You obviously don't get the irony.
The point is EV's are meant to Just Stop Oil
and other Nazi pipe dreams.
I bet that bus driver will refuse to drive anything EV again.
No to electric school busses
No school is putting my Kids on one of these deadly Electric buses
I would never want my kids to ride an EV bus, ever!
Children are not beta testers.
Entrusting children to these absurd traps is crazy.
Safety first, then a diesel bus can also catch fire, but the engine is in the back and I believe there is always the possibility of evacuating it safely. In addition to the fact that it costs the community a third of an electric one.
Many school busses have the engine in the front.
Actually the engine is in the front. Diesel though is far safer than electric. And far easier to extinguish.
Buses though are VERY unsafe means of trasportation. Most do not even have seat belts,, and if they allow 3 to 2 seats defenitly not. Is there an answer?? Not totally BUT proper seating, proper side impact beams and rollover protection does make an unsafe vehicle less unsafe
@@ldnwholesale8552 school busses in my state are required to have seat belts or lap bars.
@@GhausterSounds more like an amusement park ride lol.
@@MUUKOW3 It does and they suck. They stuck us seniors on a bus that was setup to hold K-3. We could hardly get the bars to latch and the driver wouldn't move until they all were. As I was already over 18. I told the driver to get lost and walked off the bus.
Ban all battery powered vehicles from public.
Great informative factual video.Thanks for exposing the dangers of these deathtraps.👌
Keep up the good work and stache.
I’m not an auto engineer by any means, but is it possible the bus ran over something in the road, which scratched the battery? I’m assuming the bus had the battery on the bottom like a Tesla does.
3:16 *_Four_* battery packs, not *_one._* The rear-most pack would be the most-likely to suffer a puncture, because it is the furthest from the wheels.
It is somewhat likely but the battery packs under the bus should be quite tough and impact resistant. Should is the operating word here. But we are talking rural Canada in winter. Salty water and snow slurry getting into the battery pack or shorting the inverters in front is even more likely. Especially considering Lion seems quite incompetent.
BTW slapping few battery packs, inverters and electric axle on a bought bus chassis is probably the easiest possible EV design imaginable on par with short range postal van.
I would rather go with a gradual wearing down of the battery casing, in order for a single event to really damage the undercarriage of a car, or a bus, it would take running over gravel at high speeds to really do some damage to a vehicle undercarriage, and even then, not a single event most likely, I would agree with someone who figures gradual salt corrosion an/or sand on the roads from the roads being given salt and/or sand to melt ice and snow on the roads, which happens often in colder rural areas.
Q: is it possible the bus ran over something in the road, which scratched the battery? A: yes, i've seen low mounted radiators "speared" by road debris. what can poke a radiator can likely poke a battery box. iirc this has already happened to a few early Model S' which is why back in 2014 a Titanium "bash plate" was fitted at the front of the battery pack.
re: "I’m not an auto engineer by any means..." no worries WE'RE ON IT...🤙
Reminds me of London's burning "bendy buses" ... that kept burning after being exported to Malta! 😂
They were diesel, though
Any electric vehicle is a complete waste of money.
Have you much experience of driving any to come to your conclusion? In 7 years driving EV's I've found the opposite, near super car performance, good technology, minimal servicing and very cheap to run.
@jimf4748 that's until you have to get it repaired then your screwed.
@@jamesrader3329 Well it comes with an 8 year warranty and I sell long before then. I only tend to keep my cars three to four years. With so few moving parts all my EV's have been 100% reliable. Telling that you don't meantion your EV experience!
@@jimf4748 few moving parts??? Have you ever worked on a battery powered car. There's a ton of moving part and a very complex electrical system to manage the battery and the power to drive the motors. They just aren't safe in accidents. Pray you never get in one because the fire is so intense and happens so quickly your chances of making it out are slim compared to a gas car and that's if you aren't knocked unconscious. Good luck though.
@@zooker7507 A ton of moving parts?? Have you even sat in a EV? Of course, gas cars are completely safe and never go on fire.
They say that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Despite all of the serious problems that school district in Maine has experienced with Lion Electric buses, they want to keep using them.
As a parent I would not want my child on these buses.
Nope. My children would not ride in an electric bus.
Some of the problems with the Lion ev buses are similar to the Thomas C2 electric buses that we have at our district. We have had electric parking brake problems, charging problems and A/c problems. We have had to take drivers another bus so they can finish their route. I wish we had the option to go back to diesel in California.
Only people who live in free countries have options like you want.
In Kommifornia you do not have any options. Enhoy. Run, fools!
Don't let them put your kids on an EV!
I’m in the mid Atlantic. Our city got a bunch of electric buses. They are already have cold issues even with our mild winters The buses batteries where soupost to last all day with a 50% charge reserve. They have to be recharged during the mid day know
So it's 0 emissions but uses diesel for climatization...
Also why using EVs in rural areas? Aren't they supposed to lower city pollution? Seems to me it's not the best use for that type of propulsion system.
The depots for the bus nowadays have the charging and/or refueling equipment for the bus. Usually a school bus makes a round trip involving going to the school, then dropping off the kids on a route, then returning to the depot. I’m sure that’s the least of the issues for the bus if the route is well planned with possible detours.
😂wait until people see the price of getting rid of those lithium batteries
Excellent work thank you!
Will be a very sad, horrific day when the bus has thermal runaway with kids on board. Can the bus even evacuate a full pax load when the packs ignite?
The Battery under the front of the bus could be a prime place to take damage from an obstacle on the road or getting thrown up by a wheel.
? How old was the eclectic bus, compared to a diesel bus?
I live in Maine. Funny on how all the news reports on these Lion busses never mention the diesel fueled heater. Sad thing is the wonderful federal government hasn't let them be released from the duration requirement they signed to get the funding. So our kids will be put at risk. I hope one never goes up with kids on board but when it does happen. I hope they sue the town, state, fed and manufacturer for the unsafe conditions they put them in.
But Kamala said electric yellow school busses were joyful, as well as safe & effective.
And stunning and brave.
She lied.
Safe and effective, where did I hear that before 😂
She just didn’t know , just like trump and Covid , injecting bleach….well on second thought , my 6 yr old grandson knows not to consume bleach, or anything with that scary label.
@@Ricken2022 oh boy , still on this one leftard 🤣
Electric school-bus fires can happen to anybody at any time (nothing you can do). Audience wishes hapless victims all the best. Cheers!
For an extra $240,000, assuming $4/gal diesel, they would have to save 60,000 gallons of diesel to make that up. Assuming 4 mi/gal, they would have to put 240,000 miles on each bus.
So, maybe (rural route) is 100 miles/ day, times (5 days/week × 40 weeks = ) 200 days = 20,000 miles/year = 12 years to break even. Not accounting for diesel maintenance (favors EV) or cost of electricity (disfavors EV).
The lifespan of an average bus is about that, and probably less in the rural northeast. So, there is no savings. And I think I've been generous to the electrics.
Yep, I live in Maine and I always comment on the local “news” websites, these idiots are going to cause a child bbq. Complete insanity.
I think it is a huge risk allowing these electric buses to transport children, especially on rural routes.
They should rather stick to old-school diesel buses (pun intended) which is cheaper, have a much better track record, and is safer of course.
An ICE fire will give the children time to evacuate, but the speed with which an electric bus gets burning, is just horrifying, and this will cause a tragedy when there are children onboard, especially disabled children.
Also - how safe and protected are those batteries in a physical traffic accident should a car drive by accident into the bus? And this will happen still, no matter what you do.
Disclaimer : South African here, watching with unease the proliferation of EV's without due consideration of human safety as well as environmental safety.
Diesel is also very difficult to ignite compared to gasoline.
@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes yep ever try to take a torch to some? It takes a minute to warm it up before it will ignite. Diesel was discovered to ignite under pressure / high heat.
@@crazycoffeeI was annoyed with trying to start a diesel engine on the job sometimes, but I wasn’t annoyed by the fuel efficiency.
Diesel buses proven safe for 100 years.
Our children's future is not electric.
Massachusetts invested big-time in these buses
I'm happy that lithium incidents when I was younger showed me that lithium is unstable at the least. Got to love propaganda from everyone.
Some of the oldest videos on UA-cam are what to do if your electronic device explodes from the battery malfunctioning.
Seeing this I am Curious if Schools have safety drills on emergency bus exiting .
Great insight! Thank you!!
As I keep saying , Lithium Ion should have a world ban in EV's.
There's plenty of alternative battery technologies about now ⚠️
I agree. I have no problem with EV's if you want one. I don't want Lithium Ion batteries in them. If you park one in your garage next door to me, it's still a fire threat to my house and my life if I'm sleeping.
The good news is Lion has closed their doors.
Buying a headache.
It also seems like these buses were designed to meet the absolute bear minimum, right when the last student was being dropped off. This is completely unexpectable
What about the effects of road salt working it’s way into the electrical systems of an EV? Would it not be the same as the vehicle being flooded in salt water
It'd be really the same. Just you don't need flooding or too much of a salt. Just drive as usual.
As a former school bus driver, a Mom, and a Grandmother, those things Scare the 💩 out of me!
And I have experienced an on board fire, with Wheel Chair students on board. Myself and a parent wereable to successfully evaluate all students , but if it had went as fast as that bus.......I didn't know how it would have worked out.
2 to 3 times the price for a diesel bus. This electric scam needs to end. We don't have enough electricity for everything already and the minerals to make the batteries are not "green" !
No, the buses are not worth the risk. They aren't even worth having as buses. They might have the range to do their daily job, but when I was in school (eons ago), school buses were used for field trips and one time they were used to evacuate residents from a flash flood risk zone. The buses had to be brought in and out to pick up residents and take them to safety. If those had been electric buses, first, the water level they had to drive through would have gotten into the battery packs. Besides the water ingress to the batteries, if those buses that evacuated us to safety had to be recharged multiple times due to the back and forth continual driving, many people would not have been evacuated.
I simply do not trust electric buses/mass transportation that rely only on the batteries to store energy for the motors. Imagine that school bus carrying kids to school, or having to be used to evacuate people and pets spark off and go into thermal runaway with all those people onboard.
It would be a mass casualty event with how fast those batteries go off.
At a difference in cost of $250,000 - $300.00 over diesel buses and the problems electric buses are having, I think school boards should put that money into education rather then an unsafe system based on unproven research.
The fuel/battery storage bursting into flames really doesn't seem like a technical advantage to me.
LION electric is going out of business soon. They recently laid off 70% of their staff
There will be another company with same dirt-cheap (in quality terms not in terms of cost) design. Another name with same problems.
Over the years, we have seen many fire hazards outlawed! The issue with electric vehicles is that politicians who don't see or don't care about the dangers are still promoting these nightmares.
Well from what I see here using an EV bus for kids is playing russian roulette with the kids Not a very good idea
I believe that these busses are acquired through fed grants. Just imagine the gov wants to force business to purchase these vehicles and deal with all of the issues out of their own pockets
We have IDIOTS trying to throw us ALL under an electric bus. mOR cars and whatever. No ev for me, pal.
160K FOR A DIESEL BUS VS $400,000 FOR AN E.V BUS = RIDICULOUS !! FFS
There are 380 school bus fires in the US each year according to google. I wonder what the ratio is between battery and diesel bus fires in relationship to how many of each there are?
I am on the fence on this one. If there is less likelihood of a fire but a higher risk of injury or death, how does that balance out in injuries and fatalities?
I couldn't find hard statistics on this easily. I suspect there must be a way to engineer it to give more time to escape in the lower risk of a battery fire?
Definitely needs to be looked at though. Perhaps something like the NTSB system for forcing corrective measure on airlines can be done for school buses?
Glad you brought out the price of the yellow bombs. Education about dangers of electric vehicles is important. Safety features not working,on a school bus? Who approved the use of yhem?
Please find out if the diesel heater puts out less CO2 than a modern diesel engine bus.
I tried to drive a 1957 or 9 Chevy pickup truck once. No power steering on that truck from when it was rolled off the assembly line. This was in 1981, and I had seen my aunt drive a similar truck a few years earlier. She complained about how hard it was to steer without power steering, but it looked to me like she was able to make her turns just fine. So I figured I would be able to drive that Chevy pickup with just a little more "oomph." Yeah no. Thankfully I was test driving in a safe practice place, because I didn't have the strength to turn the wheel. My aunt is smaller than me, but she was a farm girl, and I was a skinny city girl. I guess you have to build up those muscles over a lifetime to have the strength to drive an old vehicle that doesn't have power steering. I wouldn't allow my child to board a bus that was known to lose power steering!
Most vehicles fitted with power steering can be driven if the assist stops. Though on these modern buses maybe not. Either an electric driven hydraulic pump or fully electric assist . In practice both can be still driven. Electric assist can freeze up. But still very uncommon.
Losing power steering on your vehicle is pretty bad, fortunately for me, when I drove an old Saturn Ion and the Power Steering went off, I was on a hill and coasted down the hill to park and call for towing of the car. Also, I suspect the bus got punctured and/or corroded in the undercarriage which caused the fire.
oh my gawd, $400k for systems that i dont see minimal known safeguards.
just having an airtight steel shield prrvents and contains most lithium fire potential.
one bus at a time... most evs are tested and safe, these appear to be back yard converions?
sometimes it ends up better and dafer for much less but a youtubing backyard manufacturing process involved rigorous testing before others ride it.
they know to do this before kids get involved, wtf happened here?
The irony of the good old, reliable diesel heater is not lost.
There should be added Ceramic tiles used in Space Shuttles as a Firewall directing flames of the fire only to the right side of the bus.
The CyberTruck battery did not ignite, only the gasoline and fireworks went off. What a WIN, for Elon and TESLA. No hotel damage!
Ça va tellement bien Lion Electric, chaque chose que le gouvernemaman touche se transforme en marde.
"THEY" would never lie, 😮 would they?
Taxpayers should not subsidize this technology.