You're Not a Solo Dev and You Can't Make a Game on Your Own
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2022
- Hey Everybody,
Today I am making a little bit of a different video than I normally do. Throughout my involvement with game development I have gotten to know the indie dev community pretty well. Almost every developer I’ve met that’s working on an indie game has been a solo developer. But there seems to be a common sentiment from a vocal minority that’s within this community. What's this idea you’re probably wondering, well it’s the belief that “You must make every aspect of your game by yourself”. And if you don’t make everything on your own, your game is somehow not worthy.
So today I’m going to be discussing this topic and revealing indie development’s biggest lie.
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References:
Stardew Valley developer is an Auburn native - KING 5 Evening
• Stardew Valley develop...
Why nobody knows how to make a pencil
ddcolrs.wordpress.com/2015/09...
I, Pencil: My Family Tree as told to Leonard E. Read
www.econlib.org/library/Essay...
I, Pencil the movie
• I, Pencil: The Movie
Thomas Paine Quote
/ he-who-dares-not-offen...
If you’re interested in the game I’m working on now, checkout my Steam page.
Spire on Steam
store.steampowered.com/app/22...
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/ discord - Ігри
This is really good advice to manage scope, why are the dislikes so salty?? Do some devs have a weird complex about being self made 100% solo talent or something?
If people insist on programming an engine from scratch instead of using an engine or do every single asset themselves they shouldn't be surprised when it ends up in vaporware development hell.
It doesn't hurt to use other people's code assets either when it's popular Unity store stuff. If it's popular it's well documented and other users have troubleshooted issues together. If I tried coding everything myself I'd give up just because of the sheer mountain of bugfixing I'd have to do for so many systems interacting with each other.
yeah, make a computer by yourself, discover electricity, make that, and make your own house and even you hunt or farm, you still didn't make this universe, WTF man, what is going on in your brain honestly?!
@@user-wg2eh3iy5r You realize not everyone is a native speaker, right ?
"I don't speak english because that's the only langage I know, I speak english because that's the only langage you know.
Anyway, dude, what version is your Unreal Engine using? 5.3 (latest one), 5.0, or somewhere in between?
a good example of this is kenshi, i think it took him 8 or 10 years to finally release his game and he doenst regret it since it fairly popular but not main stream. he made his own engine not from scratch but by using ogre graphics engine and another physics engine to make his game and engine in one thing. so yes anyone can make a game alone, you just need the dedication and you need to realize if your game is actually in development hell or not, if it is try a side project or make your scope smaller
50-50 like_dis ratio btw i liked
I don't care what tools you used, how many paid or free assets you have, or the amount of copypasta in your code. If you're the only person on your team, you're doing it by yourself.
Try telling your wife, she didn't clean the house all by herself.
You literally aren't though. You can definitely ignore the assistance you receive from others though, if you prefer to delude yourself into a sense of misplaced self-worth. Building something difficult is a great achievement, and it is not diminished by the objective fact that nobody does it alone.
@VincentRuppJr there's nothing self made.
You're not self made because without your mom and dad u wouldn't exist. Without your grandparents they would exist and so on
Agree. That's what solo means for me too, even if there are helps making it happen. Unless the other people join in. Esp if this one dev is the only person reaping all the profits and the helps are free, but even if the assets are bought it's still solo. Weird but that's how I see it. It's like selling burger solo, the seller buys all ingredients, but he's the one making the final product.
@@vaer-kIf you worked on the software of the game by yourself, it's solo developed. It doesn't matter what or how many assets I use to make the game. The people who made the assets didn't make it with you so you can't possibly said they made the game with you or they worked with you to make the game.
@@vaer-k Development is not the actual product, it's the process it took to make the product. And in the software engineering world, if it was made before the actual development on the product was started, it wasn't apart of the project. Even if parts of it were made during the development process, if the outsider wasn't involved in the actual core development process, they weren't apart of development, and it's still considered solo developed. That applies to most if not all software outside of games as well. Hence why games like Spacebourne 2, Bright Memory, and Minecraft are considered solo developed
I agree with the premise of the video, but saying that making anything with any tool (Engine/IDE/Computer/Transistors/Hammer) means that you didn't "make it on your own" is quite the stretch.
I agree, it is a stretch. I as well as other devs have been called out for using assets in our games as well as using tutorials to learn how to add features to a game. This is something that began happening when I first entered the indie dev sphere and I’ve seen it many times. David Wehle, the creator of The First Tree has talked about this issue as well where he has been called an asset flipper.
So this video is more of a response to those who have “bashed" myself or others for how we make games. It’s amazing when someone solo code/designs/creates a game. But I think newer indie devs get the impression that solo everything is the standard and they’ll never be able to learn how to do everything in order to release a game.
I appreciate your feedback and in no way was this video meant to be hateful or divisive. Just a response to the hate I and others have received during our game dev journeys.
@@purp40 It was very clear to me, that he was talking about people who call any game that uses asset packs that are freely available, to make games, as not being a true solo indie dev, as the only way, you can call yourself a true solo indie dev, is to build everything from the ground up yourself. And I'm sorry, as he said in the video, that's a Unicorn, it's a nice rarity, but most definitely isn't the norm.
more than a stretch down right false lol
@ElusivePandaGames well original dwarf fortress before he partnered was basically solo for what 16 years
"I just painted the next picasso but sadly I didnt print my own paper, didnt grow my own paint pigment, and didnt carve my own paint brush, sadly it means I didnt make the painting alone"
^Exactly this goofy idea. Engines are middleware tools, nowdays 90% of games even from rich studios dont use thier own engines...
Nothing is self made. So this whole debate that always happens with solo projects is stupid ego-sheltering behavior. Solo just means nobody worked with you on the project, for music, games, whatever.
You didn’t make your computer, so I don’t care if you made every asset, line of code, the engine, etc. and even if you somehow made the silicon and every transistor in your computer, you didn’t harvest the electricity. You didn’t raise and kill the animals/crops you ate to fuel your development. So you’re not self made.
See how stupid this is? Solo dev means nobody worked with you to bring the vision to reality. Even if you grabbed all your assets online, copied a bunch of code, and followed guides… you still developed the final product yourself. You can give the exact same ingredients to 10 different chefs and they will all make vastly different dishes.
I make music and sprites for my games. But if I released a free or paid asset pack and people used it in their games, I’d still consider their project solo projects. There’s an asterisk to solo projects that use all their own music and image assets. That’s very impressive, but not necessary. Nobody uses 100% their own own code. Did you write the compiler? The kernel-level and used-level process switching algorithms? Did you somehow defy logic and invent new data structures that actually work? Doubt it.
Feeding your ego and discouraging others does nothing. Nobody who’s ahead of you in the process will ever discourage you or tear you down. If you’re alone on a project, even if you get assets to help you, it’s still yours.
A photographer isn’t any less of a photographer if they aren’t photographing solely things they created…
Worded perfectly!! I wish everyone saw this comment.
No, i actually think that for game to be "developed by a solo developer" - that person must do everything by himself. Which obviously severely limits the scale.
If you grab a bunch of assets, including something like "RPG quest system", "Realistic movement system", "Cozy music pack", "lo-poly characters pack - there's already a dozen people providing services to make the game.
It's just like how in Russia a car that is assembled from several major units (body, doors, engine etc) on local factory is somehow considered "produced locally".
Parts made in China, Indonesia, Japan, Europe get assembled together and suddenly it's "Russian".
There's nothing wrong with cooperation or using assets. Just don't call it "made by one person" when that person merely pieced together stuff that took dozens of other people months and years to produce and polish.
The "you didn't make visual studio" argument is flawed.
I draw the line between tools and work.
Otherwise next step is "A game made by one person!*"
* Chat gpt was used to write story. Voiced by neural network, music composed by neural network. Character sprites generated by neural network. Code written by devin.
But a company isn't the same , if a guy did buy those parts from these country's , make his own pieces , and assemble them all and fix them , i would say that he did it solo and it is his product , and the chatgpt argument isn't that good either tbh , but if you want i can talk about it , i just don't want to ramble
Ok, then. Who should go into the credits then? Do play testers qualify? Does a friend that gives you 5% of the ideas count? etc ?
Your mom and your dad bc they created the game dev i suppose
I get comments about using assets for my project from time to time. They are saying stuff like your game should be called War of assets which sounds like my efforts are worthless. They have no idea that I almost have been working 3-4 hours everyday after my day job for the past 3 years, stay home for the weekend so that I can have a full day to work on the project. Thank you so much for sharing videos like this. It really helps.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with trying to do as much of the game by yourself as you can.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with taking a long time to make something if thats what you wanna do.
And theres absolutely nothing wrong with having a team or getting assets or paying somebody to help you out or getting investment or using an engine or making your own.
Whichever way you wanna go about it is fine, you do things the way you want to its your time your project your thing.
You can't really say that though. It's easy to just be whimsical so you don't have to be responsible for anyone's negative outcome, but the reality is wasting tons of time is just stupid and bashing your head against the wall to prove a point is something only people with an unnecessary ego try to do. It's okay to spend extra time to polish but I know the feeling of trying to force yourself to make something happen in a program you are a literal potato in and I know how it feels to just hand it to someone who uses the program regularly and they just spit out something way better than you ever could have in that moment like it was magic. If you really want to do everything by yourself, learn to actually do it step by step before trying to put it all together. Realizing you need someone's help but then saying fuck it I'll just do it even though I'm shit, when easy alternatives are right next to you is just childish. At some point you need to take a step back and check yourself if that is something that keeps happening. At that point you are clearly working on something that can only be healthy if it's a hobby because you're not really taking it seriously, even if you think you are.
It really depends on your goal. If it's to make money, then sure. If that's not a huge factor you are worried about.. well take as long as you want on that single project. @@luckerooni1153
Seriously. People who cry over asset flipping, or even simple outsourcing for code or artwork are just sad. They might as well say, "You didn't mine the gold, copper, lithium, iron, or silicon that goes into your pc and its batteries", so you didn't make your indie game solo since someone else had to do all that and you used a pc to make it. Hur hur. pwned.
After 1min in the video(this may be offensive to some ppl (actually not, if they can think, which is... .. . ) ):
So im a solo dev, if:
-- i made a programming language with 0 experience, and 0 help; not even tutorials, documentations, etc... (so basically "invent" programming again)(this means i cant be a solo dev anymore...). (I think also this means you need to write a new OP system, with drivers too 💀).
- (optional) made a game engine with your needs(again, without 0 help, onlly your brain, and knowgedle can help).
- (if your game is not text-based only) art with 0 help and 0 tutorial -> you need to make your own pixel editor /+ 3d /+ 2d software, made with your programming language.
- (if you want music/sounds) music with 0 help and 0 tutorial -> you need to make your own music-creating app (or how to call it), made with your programming language.
-- (optional) create a website, but wait,... you cant use html... ;; oh wait, i forgot, if you want to make a multipolayer game, then you need to do the networking, servers, database, (of course, you cant use services, like: google or idk who, so you need to write this in your programming language, too), and maintaing it on your own. ;; .
...I dont want to write other steps; i know you get it now: you need to use tools, because without tools... just imagine cyberpunk 2077: if they used this "method", the game would came out in 2077 fr💀. Also: why you want to create/made engine/+software/+assets/+music IF the ones that are avaliable are good for you?
(And some other toughts: If one person put this together in an engine, but this one person is the one who(knocks) choose the musics /+ assets,etc... (so no communication with the artist/s, and also everyone can buy/download itfor free); then that game is made by a solo dev; actually, after thinking, its really hard to say this, if the game is literally just made with drag-and-drop assets(some has scripts too) from Unity store, but i guess, this is capitalism.
And for the "You Can't Make a Game on Your Own": Well the steps are the same i wrote earlier here; but yeah the tutorials or tutorial hell, like some ppl call it has a big part in this.)
Oh, and 2 important things: i know my Engli is bad; the other: i dont care (most of the time) about what ppl will wrote "under me", and all this stuff, i dont want to read 420page about: "Um, actually, you are wrong, because 'this', and 'that'... -🤓".
damn what about making the pc the cpu and the electricty
If everything done specifically for a game was done by yourself, then you are the solo dev of that game. Bought assets? Solo dev. Hired someone? Not solo dev. Unless of course it involves things the dev simply can't ever do. Like voice acting for multiple voices.
The feeling of "I must make every single little asset for my game or I'm a fraud" is definitely not a healthy mindset for a solo dev. Assets are your friend and can really speed things up. I tend to make original assets for things I feel are important to the identity of the game or a specific area, such as background art, tile sets, music, and character sprites. However, I rely on assets for more generic things that I feel don't feel really affect the game as much but are still a necessity. Some examples would be certain sound effects (explosions, gun shots, foot steps) and visual effects (particle bursts, impact animations, elemental animations like fire/water/lightning). I'm not saying those elements can't be made to really stand out, but for me it makes more sense to save time by using assets for things that just need serve a specific function.
To be fair, just cause you didn't get all the rescources yourself, doesn't mean you didn't make the game yourself. You bought the pencil and paper, doesn't mean you didn't make the drawing on your own. The engine nor the pencil doesn't use itself, so the labor is still there.
Although I'm not saying people don't recieve help from outside sources, its honestly more accurate to say "I made most of the game myself" then to say you "I did everything".
This just makes me more positive and less regretful of the decision of asking my friend who has basic experience in Blender to do the assets for me after learning it himself and together, focus more on making a game which people want to spend hours on without anything forcing them other than the fact that the game is simply good.
The problem with using (aesthetic) paid assets isn't that the developer is being "lazy" or anything like that, it's that the identity of your game could be cheapened by anyone else using those same assets in their games. Many developers will deem this a worthwhile trade-off, but it's a trade-off nonetheless.
if you plop in assets wholesale no edits no change, no mixing you will get that, use them better and most wont even realize its there.
Clashing style, scale, detail levels etc is when its noticable and will become a problem.
What Dark said. Also save up and purchase assets that are higher value and quality then also do what dark said with them
That or some of us don’t have the luxury of buying assets or want to learn a new skill in the process.
Saw a beautifully made asset that was $500. So making it myself and getting a similar result was way cheaper.
no matter what you say, minecraft is childs play next to chris's sawyer roller coaster tycoon, made this game alone, with assembly !
i prefer the solo route. watch silicon valley and you will understand the dangers of letting people into your projects. although i have been learning game development for over a decade. i do buy assets though and take as many shortcuts as i can. i lean entirely on daz3d products for art and megascans for most of the rest. game will likely get peeled apart by all the youtubers saying which asset came from where but at the end of the day i am just making a game for myself i will enjoy and money will be a nice side effect. i do take this approach of having to do everything myself but where i can i have no issues buying assets. with daz3d licensing every employee in the studio must own the same licenses for every single product so i have to go it alone anyways. i think its better this way. no resentment can build no bugs can occur without my knowledge. i dont have to take a bad idea into consideration because of feelings. 100% profit. no overhead burn from having a staff and needing the game to be profitable. there seems to be many more benefits to being solo IF YOU CAN. if you can't then it's quite foolish to say "games coming out this year i just have to learn the engine" said dreamworld.
I prefer the solo route too but I’m might hire a modeler.
AGREEEE 100%
"When people tell you something's wrong or doesn't work for them, they're almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong"
- Neil Gaiman
It’s not a bad thing to get help anyone who says it is has never tried to make a game
I disagree. I don't think the argument of "at some point in your production pipeline you used a tool someone else developed" means you didn't make a game on your own. If you take that concept to the extreme sure no one ever made any software on their own because someone had to make the hardware, and someone else had to make the coding language, and on and on.
But when we discuss the concept of "doing something on your own" we all have an informal definition of what that means, which typically means if you used an engine you still did it on your own, but if you hired an artist then no, you didn't do it on your own. That is the true bar most people are trying to satisfy when they try to make something on their own, so I feel like saying "oh but you didn't code your own engine" is moving the goal posts in a way.
In general, I agree the indie dev community is a little too preoccupied with the concept of doing everything on your own, because game development is inherently a multi-talent work of art. But instead of discrediting the idea of doing someone on your own we should elevate it to one of many options that are open to people. You can do everything on your own, or you can hire out some help, or you can have an entire team who all have their own specialisations and an equal ownership over the game.
Neither of these are objectively better or worse, just different, and will differently fit your specific needs.
So true especially as a fulltime Software Dev you learn to use Plugins, libraries and frameworks to meet Security Standards faster development time. And Software that is developed today most of the time is like 30 % so complex as game development especially there is no sound design involved (most of the time) also no story telling complex assets like animated models/sprites. Of course I can make those but then I am sure that those things won’t be as fluid as if I use some assets to speed up dev time and quality.
And that’s why big companies are successful because they are not held back by those questionable morals
There are various game elements such as gameplay, story, graphics, music, level design etc etc
I want to use the pareto principle. What are the most important features for making a good game? Graphics doesn't seem to be it as we can see low graphics games like Minecraft and Battlebit or stardew valley being successful.
So what are they? Thanks.
Hey man love the video I'm actually getting into making a game or two and I was thinking of using the game assets Library for both but with my own coding of course and finesse.
Love it. Thanks for the pep talk!
This is a very good video, I spent so much time trying to make everything myself and not using tutorials. Mainly because I felt shame not knowing everything. I since started using tools and help and this stuff seems much more feasible.
I get the idea behind this video, and yes, it is fine to use libraries, engines and content you didn't make yourself - however it also doesn't mean you should. Many early games on PC were solo dev or 1 dev 1 artist games, not just Minecraft and stardew valley. Both ID software (Commander Keen) and Epic Games (ZZT) were established by publishing these sorts of games, and Myst was made by two brothers. There is a whole community of devs doing this with Casey Muratori's handmade hero series - the best advice is to scope your project to something that you can do, and then iterate - but nothing wrong with making everything yourself.
This reminds me of when I was like 19 working at Burger King and the assistant manager brought a guitar and played More Than Words by Extreme. I asked him, "Don't you know anything else?" and he responded "How many songs do you know?" I'm not saying we all have to be better before we criticize. Let's just appreciate what these people are making and offer constructive criticism that encourages them to be better.
It's very difficult to be a solo dev, I am one and I don't recommend it to anyone, I've been making my indie RPG for Mega Drive and pc/steam for 4 years now, and it's been a challenge, it's a lot of work. In the last few months I've been trying to ask for help with freelancers, at least in art, music and sound effects. The good part is that I learned a lot about code and low level programming, I was already a programmer, but I am certainly a better programmer today than when I started the project.
What platform and technologies did you use?
@@realnapster1522 C, Assembly 68k and a lib call SGDK.
Hey there,
Fellow indie dev here and I wanted to throw my hat into the ring and give my 2 cents.
The thing people don't realize is that Eric had a ton of support from Chucklefish when he was making Stardew Valley. He might have made the game by himself, but he had play-testers, a marketing team, a community built by Chucklefish, etc. I'm not saying this to discredit anything that Eric has done-- he's amazing, but the fantasy that he worked on this game all by his himself and then released it to become a multi-millionaire, is something I always take issue with.
My wife and I are making a game called Pixel Skater. We've done all of the assets by ourselves outside hiring a friend to do the music and someone to do the cover-art. Does that make us a solo dev? Yes and no. Before we did that, we were working with Xbox to promote our game. They have been giving us the tools and resources to help market our game. We've joined many different events to market our game, had many people help us find bugs with our game, etc etc.
We are in the group of "solo devs", yes, but we're not much different from Stardew Valley because like it or not:
Every developer receives some kind of outside help; nobody creates a game without outside influence of some type.
That being said, Eric used the XNA which is a pain in the ass to work with, but it is an engine. It's just not a visual engine, so you have to make the GUI yourself (it's literally just programming in Visual Studio, so no visual aspect). Also, I like your video and subscribed-- I also like the look of your game. I think you're doing an amazing job and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Keyword here is developer. I think Eric released a statement years ago saying that Chucklefish is not involved in any part of development in the 4 years he worked in the game. The only time Chucklefish was involved in development was after the release of his game and Chucklefish just handles marketing and other business related things you mention. Regardless I wouldn't count it as part of "developing a game". So yes, Eric is still a solo developer and he did work on the game by himself. Any other company beside Chucklefish could have published it for him and it wouldnt discredit Eric as still a solo developer.
"he's amazing, but the fantasy that he worked on this game all by his himself..." - yes he did.
Exactly. He play tested the game himself. The first time he got external help was after release and the netcode needed to be written.
Read the Stardew chapter of “Blood, Sweat, and Pixels” for more details!
keep up the good work, I enjoy this video you made. I don't understand the dislikes. I am planning some indie stuff and I need help on that.
barone's success is actually very easy to replicate: get a large wraparound desk and box yourself into the corner of your office so you can't walk away from your computer
Or girlfriend that gonna work at job while you make your game in comfort
The problem is you can't trust other people will have the respect and care that you do for your project. Without money there's nothing to incentivize the other people involved in your project to do anything correctly.
Stardew Valley was built on XNA. While not a user friendly one clicky play engine. It's still an engine. All the heavy lifting of decoding textures and communication with gpu is all under the hood. All you need to decide what you want to display and where. Anyway. I think the engine argument is invalid. Tools doesn't make games. At least not until AI can do it all by itself.
I think extra credits phrased this much more bluntly over 10 years ago:
You will never be able to create a game like the AAA ones you play and love. Not in your lifetime. Never.
I ommited your good point. I agree that it's is dumb to think that you have to do everything by yourself, and that not doing that is somewhat better in the eyes of an imaginary Developers God. I think the source of that idea is that when you use assets your game does not have a unified look, and is inconsistent in style. And if someone says you are bad in the DevGods eyes because you didnt build your engine by yourself....they are crazy. They forgot they were kids sometime ago.
Whatever floats your boat man :)
The value is ultimately on who is enjoying what you've done.
A consumer does not care. And shouldn't.
Whether you make a game in assembly from scratch or you use pre-made engine, at the end of the day what counts is the final product.
There are reasons for creating engines as there are reasons to use premade.
Valorant was made in Unreal while Overwatch was made in a custom engine.
Arguments can be made for and against both approaches.
My thoughts on using purchased assets/plug-ins is:
"unless I can make it better myself, no need to reinvent the wheel"
I COULD spend hours and hours making a something... or oh, hey.. look. Someone made the thing I need and I can customize it for my needs at a price that's less than the hours invested AND I can then use that time for optimization on an existing solution.
Win win win
The devs that made my solution win, I win, the player (hopefully) win
i feel like this goes for more ambitous projects but a game dev still has to make some games by themselves to build their portfolio and expand the knowledge of their specific field. doing this in a team is also a nessary step mind you (esspecialy for someone whos trying to be a 2d/3d artist) since if youre planning to work for a studio knowing how to work in a team is invaluable. but some solo experiance is still nessecary i feel
I've been in the process of typing a MMORPG game up providing the lore bosses, classes, races, etc. but that's all I can do. I'm a father a 2-year-old autistic child and I work at a warehouse. so, on any free time, I possibly get I try to come up with ideas but that's it working with other people cost too much and I have a family to take care of, to pay someone to create a trailer or even just the character screen. I have tried to do it myself, but I just do not understand unreal engine and I usually fall asleep at the computer doing it due to my sleep apnea and everything else going it just sucks everything is expensive and sad because as I type my game idea up it'll just end up going the memory vault.
Honestly I have to make my games all by myself, it's because I don't have the funds to pay someone to make something for me, if it isn't free or under 10 bucks I probably won't be able to use it for my games, the only exception is I paid for deffle mask for music
Blasted dat video on speakers, for 0.5sec every head turning, facing me like, ' does this dude lauched YP vidéo ?! "
Where can I find collaborators to make a game with?
Thanks for this video! It is great :D
I'm using delphi 2010 (object pascal), wth no frame works or anything of the sort. I also make my own asset and music. If you think you can be a solo dev, then be one. even if you use unity or unreal engine, that doesn't matter. The fact that you took an idea and brought it to life by yourself means you are a solo dev in my eyes
Yes you're correct! Infact those who say that it's just an asset flip and anyone can do it, they need to realise that using assets to make a game isnt the deal, choosing the right assets, finding the right code, and making them workout together as a whole game, that makes sense and gives a positive experience to the player is what's the big deal
I am talking about finding the idea, planning, finding assets, working day and night on the project, losing motivation, fixing bugs, finding motivation again, failing, playtesting, outsourcing code, spending countless hours and sleepless nights thinking about improvements in the game, and thinking about why the hell the thing isnt working as planned, getting anxiety
The whole process from finding an idea to actually completing a game, IS THE BIG DEAL IN SOLO GAME DEV, and not using assets and getting help and taking benefit from other's work that they posted so they can help others create their dream game. I feel not everyone can do it, and game devs who have done it, shall be praised, for enduring all of it and still being able to handle people's mean and toxic sarcasm
The original StarDew valley was made with MonoGame, which is also technically an engine. It is a completely code-based engine (ie. not data-driven and no built-in level editor), but it is an engine. Not to diminish the product or the effort--but this is a common misconception.
This vid is put together very well
nice video 😁
You're right about game engines, you'll never outpace a fully competent unity developer if you're a fully competent developer with a self-made engine. There's too many things a solo developer can't implement realistically in their own game engine. Like a fully decked out scripting system, a completely new physics engine, a fully customizable level editor.
Notch and the creator of Stardew Valley didn't use an overkill engine like unity or unreal, they just made a simple engine with everything they need. If you've ever made an engine, you have beyond 100% control, you still can make anything you want. It's still slower than using unity, but to you it feels second nature to implement any features your engine lacks. You don't have to learn any new unity pipelines or ways to develop, you can develop in your own way. You DON'T have to create stupidly overcomplicated systems to like an advanced physics engine, ray tracing, or any other things like that.
I solo deved a 3d game engine from scratch for one of my college classes. I found it much more fulfilling to use, and exciting over unity. No really, it's a lot less depressing than it sounds to make a game engine. There's a reason so many solo developers today do this. They're genuinely invested and often having fun and feeling fulfilled to the point where that four years that you mentioned will fly by like its nothing.
That's why Notch chose his favorite language, Java for minecraft. That's why he still chooses to program game engines in weird languages like JavaScript. It feels liberating to be able to do that. In his case, he chose to make it in his favorite language, just like he chose his retro game style. If you're a programmer, you probably will be surprised at how NOT depressing it is to make a game engine (I also think you'll be surprised at how fast you can make your own game engine).
What is the name of the game at 6:00?
To me the argument is talking about a craftsman that carves their products by hand verse someone who uses industrialized tools. Yes, the hand crafted version might have a certain charm... but it's going to take a lot longer and is more likely to be an overall less perfect product. Some may be able to produce masterpieces but that's a small percentage of the craftsmen. AI, in it's current form is also just a tool. I have no problem with people using AI or assets to develop a game. The problem is HOW it's done. One person could draw a picture in crayon while another uses expensive art tools. It doesn't mean the crayon drawing would be any worse... it all depends on the person controlling the tools. The simple answer is don't be lazy and make the tools an asset as opposed to a crutch.
You know what? I've heard plenty of people explain how it's impossible to take on this toxic mindset of "You gotta do it all yourself" without driving yourself crazy and giving up. Whether it's born from gatekeepers in the industry, trolls online, or whatever tribe you ascribe it to, there's no doubt that it's incredibly easy to bum yourself out with this mentality.
What I haven't heard yet though, is a simple explanation or way of framing the concept, where I've been able to just 'get it' and let go of this high standard I set myself up against. Honestly, that pencil analogy you gave from Milton Friedman did the trick. I have no idea how I've gone this long without stumbling across this quote, but that just flicked a switch in my brain and now it seems so obvious. Very little we do is ever truly foundational/original, and it's always building upon someone else's work. We are all dependent at some level, on something that came before, or has been assembled in some way that allows us to work at a higher level. I'm even more annoyed with myself for not really getting it sooner, because this is the whole reason programming exists at all!
Binary -> Logic Gates -> OpCodes & Registry Addresses -> Assembly -> etc.
Long story short, you just re-aligned my brain on this concept. Thanks.
You are right in a lot of ways, but you're not covering the most annoying perspective.
What if a solo developer is solo because their team is too inexperienced, fearful, or lazy to take on the more difficult parts of the game? That happens on almost every scale of design
So in short the real problem to solve is, how you can make a good game with less people as possible. Is it possible? Of course. Can you do it? Maybe. I think the trick will be to find a system for easy and fast workflows and good results. For example. I think many Gamedevs want to much and they don't look enough at the past . Take a look how people with small teams in the past had solved the problem. And by past, I mean not 2010 I mean the 1980is and 1990is this devs had real problems we can't even imagine. Read interviews from this time and I bet you will learn a lot. I like this video a lot because it take the Illusion of the people who think what they wana achieve will be easy. Nothing of real value is easy to accomplish. So get up and go to work or go home.
7:00 What game is that ?
Phenomenal video! I'm so glad that you followed this idea all the way back to the pencil analogy, because it helps really demonstrate just how silly it is to feel insecure that we didn't actually "Make it from scratch".
Even if we look to extreme examples like Terry Davis and his TempleOS, impossible standard of making something truly from scratch is still out of reach, as even he was using mass-manufactured hardware in order to program his OS.
I subscribed, thanks for the thought-provoking video
Hey man this w a s useful to me thank u
Thanks lets work together (by comment) !
I didn't know the story behind Stardew Valley, and never played it too
Maybe I'll give it a chance now, just for respect.
ua-cam.com/video/4-k6j9g5Hzk/v-deo.html
I think this obsession with making everything yourself has been very unhealthy for the gamedev community and has done way more harm than good. It's important to choose things that you want to be your own and focus on those. Compromise everything else because I'd rather play a good game than a "unique" game.
Even RE4 remake by capcom used assets from Quixel.
If it works. Ship it.
Also, do you know what Barone didn't do... create a completely original game. Rather, it is a wonderfully implemented, fun and perfectly polished evolution of Harvest Moon.
We are all standing on somebody's shoulders. Great video.
good stuff here dude , I genuinely found myself not even able to get though tutorials because of the "I need to do it all myself" mind set, its nice to know that even some of the best stuff out there had plenty of help from people who where figuring things out earlier. I think the title is a bit harsh but its the exact sledgehammer that people need to hear in order to not be ashamed to ask for help and to use the recourses that are available in order to express themselves. I remember when I was in school doing the same mindless task with a pass or fail perimeter thinking that I had a device that could solve every problem on the page, connect me to hundreds of experts and professors who where more fluent in whatever I was doing and could literally read me a bead time story afterwards but I wasn't allowed to use it because it. Its strange that I or many others like me to think of videogames differently , if every astrologer had to build there own telescope without help we would have a few people who know a hell of a lot on how to put them together but little about space as a whole.
Sorry just edited spelling
Im almost done my game- its a weird little game like streamers play
Gr8 video
This is the most video about important indie game dev i think. It opens up a whole new world for me and and inspires me to work in more efficient ways instead of glorifying the indie dev style
I think that small teams or indie devs that just use assets on the internet to make games are a real problem tough, to the point where you could find 20 FPS games with the same assets and settings because they still make money from it.
It's not about not using them, it's about not overusing them
What you describe, are Asset Flippers, not Solo Indie devs. Asset Flippers aren't in it to make a game, even though that is what they are doing. They are making something that they can sell quickly, and make a money off of it quickly.
I predict photorealistic games takes 5-10 years to complete. photorealistic you only finish one level in one year.
My game... it took me two and half years. Not finish.
I don't think it's a lie at all sure i think some do work on video games with others not by themselves and there are some that work on a video game all by themselves only one person work on a game
But I did it. Was not a comercial nor profitable game (was free) but the game was finished. So I outsmarted this video, which I haven't seen yet.
Yeah, he just took the word solo a bit too literally, lol
There isn't any problems using paid assets in your games. The problem begins when you sell this game, or create a kickstarter campaign of it, because of intelectual property issues, art principles and etc. Comparing assets with tools like Engines or IDE is a logical stretch of the argument, assets are not the same as tools, tools facilitate the development process like compiling, scripting, files organization and hierarchy, and despite they have a lot of abstractions like physics simulation, collision and etc; they're not the same as assets, as models, who are made based on the abstractions of the engine, so it is a abstraction of a abstraction and this will not gonna make you a better game dev. Making a analogy with the Sculpture process, your process of development is more like playing with Lego blocks than sculpting with clay, gesso, stone or wood.
Thanks for the thoughtful and well written reply. I see where you're coming from but I disagree with you about it being a problem to sell a game or create a kickstarter for a game that uses paid assets.
When using the Unreal or Unity marketplace you're not only buying the model but buying the rights to use that model commercially, so there would be no IP issues whatsoever. This can also be said for anything else in the game; music, sound effects, language translation, etc. It's rare to find a game where one person has done everything by themselves. Not saying it's impossible, but far more uncommon than most people make it out to be.
I think a good recent example is the game Choo Choo Charles. This game was presented as and is thought of as being a solo developed game (just check the Steam reviews), and for the sake of this argument I’ll agree that it is. However, the creator purchased the models for the environment, like the trees and the rocks. If I’m understanding your argument correctly, this would pose an issue because these are 3D models used in a commercial project. That’s where I disagree with you and think it’s fine to sell a product with purchased assets.
I agree with almost everything you said, great video!
I think the "I have to do everything myself", is such a stupid idea game devs have nowadays even if I understand the appeal of it... it's just completly unrealistic.
Also... that brain scene at 4:18 profoundly disturbed me XD
My favorite brain is the one that skyrockets into oblivion 😂
@@ElusivePandaGames Mine is the one closest to the camera that has this little tail that wiggles...
@@Floky 🤣🤣 I love it!
if you ever get as big as minecraft sell it. it will only grow to a size you cannot control like roblox and minecraft today getting headliners daily for child abuse occurring due to the games. creator of minecraft was smart to sell when he did he got out right at the perfect time.
I enjoyed your video. Realizing how much we stand on shoulders of giants...(or just thousands of ingenious people) is probably one of the most important things you can realize in life. But your thinking seems...not without holes...
What about the coding language? And the operating system you are doing it with? You have to use some one else's work on these too! And the computers themselves, the processor, peripherals, conductors...you didn't make those and you can't do shit without those.... And! The chair you are sitting on! ENGLISH, You need to use english to think through your problems! You didn't come up with english language did you?! You didn't make those, so you cannot be a solo game dev! Truth is that even Apple didn't make Mac OS themselves, they built it on the top of UNIX. The thing is we are inside an interdependent ultra complicated web of relationships, it is infinite, nothing in the world is truly solo. But we have to draw the line somewhere, hopefully not somewhere crazy, because this is the point of language. The most common sense thing is to distinguish solo dev from a large development company. Thus, a solo dev means he is not working with a large bunch of people, and he is solely responsible for what he is doing. You use someone elses work but you build something new, that has value for someone else, you are a solo dev.
I'd argue, if you are a modder, you can be a solo gamedev.
You want to get rid of the term Solo Dev, but the term is needed to make a distinction that happens in a real world. You cannot change language by enforcing it. It has to die on its own once the reality changes.
I like that you pointed out how nothing is truly solo, but I do not agree that you should not call yourself solo dev if you are a clearly different entity from a large company.
btw, you know that you can make a game, just with imagination, right?
Thank you for the thoughtful and well written reply. I agree with the points you made and I don’t think the term solo dev should be removed, rather the narrative around it should be changed. I think there’s a much higher standard held for someone calling themselves a solo dev. That standard can be a form of gatekeeping in a way that can discourage new developers or people wanting to just make a game.
I also agree with your point that a modder could be considered a solo dev because they are making something new out of something that already exists. In addition to that, I would argue we should quit using terms like asset flip or re-skin in such a negative way, especially towards solo devs. Not everyone knows how to or desires to learn all the skills it takes to make a modern game, and that’s okay. People should be allowed to focus on what they're good at/passionate about and still make games.
Anyway you made a lot of good points and I appreciate you sharing your perspective.
I needed this talk.
Couldn't agree more. Seems like every dev posting their first game on reddit gets downvoted to he11 or gets called out for being an asset flipper.
So, before I be an asshole here. I want to say, I did upvote this video.
Because the arguments are 100% sound and logical.
" Am I A Solo Dev ? "
it's almost human society is build on cooperation and nothing we do is done completely on your own. It is a good thing, cooperation is the cornerstone of humanity, don't be ashamed of it, embrace it.
On the game engine, you also forgot to mention that said engine will also use api's made by other people, with a shit ton of pre-compiled code, such as OpenGL and Vulkan for displaying graphics. So even in that case, you're still not a solo dev.
This is a great video! Most people want to be a rock star, and games are the new medium of expression. There definitely does seems to be way too big of an emphasis on doing things alone in an industry that's built on the backs of people who have already done it. I mean, let's be real, having the goal of making a game that resembles another game is technically a collaboration with the right gymnastics.
I do think it's a little disingenuous to say that people don't talk about big studios with all their employees though. The topic of employee crunch, and how poorly they're treated was a huge topic within the past few years. People just tend to cut them slack because the larger the studio, the less that individual say matters. To the point where a majority of people who work there may not even slightly enjoy what their making, and have no passion for it. But they need the money. The real heroes in my opinion are the people in-between. You work in a 6-20 person studio who all have the same drive, who are in a position to pick their own contracts, and collaborate on everything they do. That should be the dream.
Though I do agree that for people who want to try the solo dev route, it's ridiculous to assume making everything from scratch is the one-true-way. People seem to have this fear of becoming a designer instead of a developer (to put words to it), when in reality, making something on your own takes so many different skill sets. You need to be able to manage yourself and your time. You need to be able to make tough decisions about what is worth keeping, what is worth removing (even if it took months), and when it's necessary to spend money now to earn money later.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You make a great point about large studios vs small/medium size studios.
I think your point is driven home further when looking at smaller studios that get bought out by big corporations. Once this transaction occurs, we often see the games produced by said studio becoming more about the money and not the players.
@@ElusivePandaGames That is very true! There will always be someone higher up on the ladder than you. The smaller the studio, the more the player matters. Once you hit a certain point, it's all about investors, who might not even be interested in the underlying game.
The problem is the myths and attitudes surrounding the idea of the "solo dev", but we do exist. I do all the design, coding, art, music, and bizdev work for my games, but I've also been a professional AAA dev in the industry for 2 decades.
For me, being a solo dev is mostly a matter of practicality. It's about money, creative freedom, and safety (my games often have controversial themes - I don't want to subject anyone else to the death threats I've received).
That said, there is one other reason I strive to be a solo dev: representation. There are VERY few female solo devs. I've spent my entire career fighting the idea that ladies "don't belong" in games or game development; for me, this is the next step in that fight.
Any time a woman rises to the top in this industry, people question her right to be recognized and her contribution to the game. If I'm literally the ONLY dev, it'll be substantially harder to claim that a woman didn't (or can't) do the work.
Can you name your games?
I think people who are disliking you are people not understanding what you're saying or gamers/new indie devs who think they know what you're talking about
Wow! This was a really good, well researched video about making games as a solo developer. You deserve much more subscribers. At least I can give you one more subscriber. Keep up the good work.
Geometry dash🗿
I agree with 90% of what you said. However, unless you're using copilot the IDE is not a significant contributor to a project. You should have said, "COMPILER", bam, you win the argument. IDE? Really? I could use vim for all you know, get out of here. What a stupid argument. Sorry, sorry, that was a really rude tone. It's just that bad and frustrating of a point. It's a non-point. It's an anti-point. Don't say this, if the person didn't already agree with you, they certainly won't agree after you try to make this pointless argument. Whatever semantics you were going to argue, I could still code in notepad. By the time you start down the rabbit hole of shoulders of giants from the keyboard and I/O system, we're back to the compiler. OK? Just... ya ... not a good argument.
I started to learn game development at the age of 29. Do you think I am late
No. I started around the same time. Go for it!
ty
The guy who made Stardew Valley also admitted to copying a lot of the code from Harvest Moon.
How is that even possible if the Harvest Moon source code has never been released?
@@Project68K There are ways to get to that sort of thing. You see it all the time now. But that's just what he said anyway.
@@pandapower3076 you're lying. Barone never said that. You can't even do that I'm pretty sure. It's not that hard to use intuition to replicate mechanical systems in games without looking at source code.
@itslitgamestv6827 Im not lying, and yes, you can do things like that. People break games all the time. How do you think they make mods? He didn't know how to make a game or code at the time and was using the Harvest Moon source code to learn how. A lot of self-taught developers do this. You can't really copyright code. I watched a whole thing on it a while back. Sorry if he's like your hero or something. It's not like he did anything wrong.
@@pandapower3076 So two things:
1) How does he not know how to code when he was literally a computer science major? Doesn't seem accurate to me unless he just fucked around doing nothing his entire college career.
2) him using the source code depends on what language Harvest Moon was written. SNES games were mainly written in assembly, but quite a number of games were also done in C. Don't know what language Harvest Moon was written in, but just something to think about.
6:10 that is the reason why there's so many dislikes on this video, men hate it when you call out their own toxic speech and behaviors.
Anybody mad about what he said here need to "GET OVER IT\GET GUD", also don't respond to me because 1 i don't care and 2 it will show that you are "TRIGGERED".
dw
I don’t understand why solo devs want to do it alone? There’s no trophy to hang on the wall. I’ve been looking for a few people that want to create something together, but everyone seems to be on this indie journey.
Because I like my ideas better than other people ideas and I don't want to compromise my vison in the name of "team work". If that means having to learn everything there is to know about game making on my own, so be it. If i had to work with other people I would have to take into consideration their opinions about the game (and the game woudn't be really MY creation, but OUR creation). And that's a no no for artists with an ego, like me. When I finally finish my game I want to see myself in every aspect of it. When people play it, I want them to know a single dude did everything and that dude is fucking cool. That's it. It's about having an ego. If you're comming from a programming background you might not understand this, but my fellow artists do.
The non-lonely alternative would be having people working for me, instead of with me. But I don't have my own studio.
stardew valley isnt even that impressive ,concerned ape took 4 year to make a game while the geometry dash dev robtop took 6 years (stiil wip) to make the next massive update , the stardew valley community is the only community that constantly talks about this, like we get it you wanna be special