Happiest flight I've ever been on was when I got bumped and had to miss a relative's wedding. Had a great weekend at home, then flew on vacation a month later to some place I actually wanted to go.
simply sell overbooking tickets as such and at a discount. so people buying them are aware of the risks of being bumped and can't complain later. but noooooo. let's sell the same thing twice.
GraveUypo but theres a huge problem with that; they'll sell even more tickets which are "at risk" and because they are so cheap, they can just claim that its your own fault for buying them, and they can just cash in the earnings
GraveUypo most people wouldn't buy the ticket if they *knew* they could be bumped. plus the tickets would have to be sold at dirt cheap prices. obviously the airline wants you to buy the ticket at the highest price you will pay!
Who are these people who dont show up for flights or appointments? If I have a plane flight at 11am tomorrow, You better believe Im wide awake at 3am ironing socks getting ready to leave
Brodha Sattva Sh💩t happens; not everything can be predicted. Car accidents, traffic, medical emergencies, timing issues, failing to wake up on time, and general 🐤uck-ups can spring up at bad times and screw everything up.
no your supposed to wake up 1 am two days earlier to start driving to the flight then spend 40 hours in the airport doing nothing then go on your flight
you could sue the airline and even if you loose the school would have to let you take the exam (this works were I live please check your laws if you want to take legal action)
Jacob Smith no sadly the exam is centralized conducted all over india, wont repeat it just for 1 student , if it was just internal exam in a school then it would have worked, airlines compensated this with a free ticket in business class, and they made me go through ant sized terms n conditions written at the bottom of e-ticket :-(
Then you should have taken the extra time to read the contract where they tell you explicitly that the plane might be overbooked and that you agree that they are not to be held responsible for any consequences resulting from overbooking. Knowing that you would have taken the necessary step to insure you were there on time. Sorry for your exam bro but it's your fault
any percent is unethical. if that person payed for the service you are responsible for providing it, Whether they are there or not. else wise how is it different from robbery?
Chris ar Its only robbery if they don't provide you with the service you paid for. But because they do get you to where you paid to go, then its not robbery. Also its in their terms of service. So you agreed to the possibility of not being able to go on the plane you chose, when you purchase the ticket. Unethical, but not robbery
PDX Air I suppose you're right if it's in terms of service. But in theory what if you just wanted to buy the seat beside you for more room on your flight and they filled it. You're still there, but they aren't providing the service you payed for. It probably comes down to terns of service again. What are you actually agreeing to I guess.
No PDX, it's still fraud. Let me put it this way: I tell 10 people I have an apple for them, they give me 2$ each, for the explicit promise that I will give them an apple at next recess. I then approach three other people, and offer them Timmy, Jimmy and Bernard's apples. They also agree, and give me 2$ each. At recess, 10 apples go out to 10 people, but Timmy, Jimmy, and Bernard, whom I had a deal with, have _not_ received any apples. The deal was that they paid me 2$ - which they did - and I'd give them an apple at recess, which I didn't. Now before we go any further: Is this fraud or not? I have taken money in exchange for a promise of goods, and have not delivered on this promise. What's even worse, I deliberately sold three apples that were already sold. Conclusion: this is fraud. Then I give Jimmy, Timmy and Bernard 2$ and a pear each at the end of the school day, but now they've been starving for a few hours because I took their money and didn't provide the food I promised them. It doesn't matter if they have the money or the food now, because they're going home where there's an abundance of food and money. I still committed fraud, and they still paid for it, even if I "payed them back" later. Selling the same shit twice is not a new thing in economics, but as many great economists, sociologists and philosophers will tell you, that sort of fraudulent, unethical business is exactly what's gonna collapse the world economy. What's even better is, it already did. The economic crisis in 2008 was created in this exact way. Overbooking any little loan or mortgage, and pushing the amount of "virtual" airplane seats as far possible, until the whole thing collapsed. It is fraud, and it is toxic.
The customer pays to arrive at a certain destination at a certain time. Deliberately planning to not provide that service to a certain number of people who paid for it is fraudulent. And no, burying your admission of this practise in thousands of words of industry jargon does not constitute informed consent.
Pelle Apelfeldt Well no, Pelle. If I save 3$ by defrauding 3 people, there's no law that says that money isn't going in my pocket. There _is_ a law that says fraud is illegal though. Also: 1) Where do you get those 10$ from? 13*2=26. If I had to make the same money off only 10 people, it would be 26/10=2.6. So it obviously wouldn't be 10$ an apple. 2) How would the production cost rise? It would cost more to turn a profit if less people were buying, but that doesn't have much to do with a rise in production cost, nor the conversation. 3) Are you seriously comparing fraud to some altruistic vision of airline tickets for all? The free market isn't some magically self adjusting, completely sustainable utopia where every shady business trick is good, because it lowers the price for the general consumer. Any and all money that _can_ be pocketed, _will_ be pocketed.
solutions to the ethics question: 1. be more open to all who book about the possibility of being bumped. Explain the cost difference every ticket would have without overbooking. 2. sell "safe from overbooking" seats and "at risk from overbooking" seats with price differences and explanation of the (small) risks involved.
Sammy Salter Lol. So pay more to get a seat for sure or cheaper ticket and maybe get bumped and screw you? And you don't understand how there is no taking ethics out of it?
Well in a sense they are faceless machines. You see these “higher ups” don’t see the faces of the people they are conning it’s the poor underpaid staff that the public always abuse, and who gives a monkeys about the staff, not the higher ups and not the customers. See the staff need money to survive and are forced to take these medial jobs where they get treated like dirt by customers and the company they work for, on the lowest salaries with the least benefits.
At times though it's these heartless machines make things stay afloat that it calculates the best probable outcomes to benefit the maximum population. It's all good except for those ones who got left behind
No, they are ethically-neutral and care mostly about money. You can easily manipulate them via monetary incentives and fines (as they will follow what is best for them), but have to avoid having grey areas etc. (when them avoiding you / bribes are the best option for them etc.).
MajkaSrajka imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
Is this a thing in USA? I fly 2 times per year in Europe and we buy the tickets based on seat numbers. If a seat is already taken then you cannot choose it again. Maybe me and my friends are lucky but we've never been dumped before (based on dozens of flights).
Péter Menyhárt exactly, but sometimes you can buy seats without seat numbers, and the numbers are assigned close or in the same day of the flight. those are the ones that get bumped off.
They will often ask for volunteers, and offer them goodies such as free upgrades, food vouchers, hotel if needed, and sometimes even cash. In 99.9% of these cases, someone will volunteer to get bumped. In the 0.1% of cases where nobody is willing to volunteer, they will pick someone who is travelling alone, has no connecting flight, and is not an elite frequent flier.
I bet they only do that to new or infrequent customers, cuz I know for sure I would never buy anything from a company who did this to me, and my ghost will haunt their offprints after I'm gone.
''it's your fault that you didn't plan ahead for the consequence that we sold you products you pay for which we weren't even guaranteed to have.'' --every people defending in the comment section be like.
4:27 No, that does not make it okay to sell somebody's seat. If I paid for a seat on a flight, it is my seat, regardless of whether I show up or not. If the airlines gave refunds to people that didn't show up, then it would be fine, but they don't. If something is paid for, you should not be legally allowed to sell it again. The only reason this is allowed, is because airlines pay lobbyists to "persuade" congress to allow it.
Not only that, they don't announce that your seat got a chance to be taken, they just sell you the ticket, basically make you gamble without inform you that you're doing it
Without it consumers would have to pay more. If people valued the certanty of getting seats over the price that costs they would use airlines that dont have overbooking but people dont becuase they know the chance of getting bumbed off is worth the money saved to them. Besides airlines auction off rewards to those who leave so the people who value getting on that flight the lest are the ones who dont go because theyll take the least amount of rewards to get on the next flight instead
@@catandcomparator how would you feel if you needed to be in another country TOMORROW for something HUGE but THEN because your airline was a piece of SH** you missed it, and worst of all, you didnt even get a refund!
If I want to buy a seat on a flight to anywhere and put a basketball in it, that’s my choice. The airline’s only ethical course of action is to fly my basketball or refund my purchase price. A company cannot ethically sell the same good to two people for consumption at the same time.
Well, the government would have to make that law, which would be really hypocritical considering the government is the worst overbooker of all. They can accomodate for spending more than they thought they would have to by raising interest rates and racking up a $20 tril debt, yo.
It 'should' lead to lower ticket prices, in theory anyway, if you follow what basic economics asserts, but generally it just lines the pockets of those running the company...
What does it mean to be illegal? In this case, illegal means that if you overbook - you have to pay the fine - in the best case scenario - that you give to your client as compensation. Then it is still the math problem whenever it is good to sell more seats and pay fines if you are unlucky. Legality in bussines in a lot of cases is the matter of math (your factory produces too much Co2? you will pay fine if you do etc.), and for a bussines owner it is allways the weigh of all the factors (is it better to operate but pay fine or stop operating / operate at 90%? What is the chance of control? How costly is upgrade to factory that would lower the Co2 emissions? etc.).
Yep, most aggravating thing in the world! I worked for a hotel in London Heathrow and our specific chain overbooked 15%, which while being great for the chain, was horrible for the staff! On an almost daily basis we had to tell arriving guests that we didn’t have any rooms available even though they had booked and paid for a room, sometimes months in advance! And unlike other hotels in the area, we did not have “overflow rooms”. This meant that the staff ALWAYS got abuse for double booking rooms when it had nothing to do with us! It got to the point where if we saw the bookings were almost at capacity, WE would book rooms on the website to shut it down and only ever ended up with 3 or 4 empty rooms, but they would always be “last resort” rooms due to some sort of issue with them like the TV or shower not working. We used to get into trouble all the time, staff even got fired for doing it, but you see these chains don’t care if the staff get abused, sometimes even physically, because all they care about it the money and not our wellbeing. And the guests don’t care who’s fault it is. Even before my brief stint in the hospitality industry, whenever something like this happens to me I always make sure I express my frustration at the situation and not the the employee who actually never gets paid enough or even acknowledged by the company for the abuse they get for decisions made by faceless unknowns. And because of the way I handle these sorts of situations, I almost always get more than I asked for.
Well it's at least fortunate that most people who have been traveling all day would be really chill about being denied a bed at the last minute. Like yay.
It all depends. I have experienced twice this strange situation. The first time, I got the cash back, a 4 stars hotel's room just for 5 hours of attendance. The second time, I got instead a terrible room in a 2 stars hotel and I had to wait until the flight of the 3 a.m. I consider both times impolite to overbook, but at least the first time they showed that they were sorry.
They could use a waiting ticket option like in Indian railways where your ticket is automatically confirmed if someone cancelled and you know that you won't be kicked at airport+ you can buy a total one in emergency
johnny llooddte if they pay a 100%, non-refundable deposit months in advance then it makes no difference if they show up or not. In fact it's cheaper for either company if they don't show.
How much money is said deposit in a resturant. Most resturants don't have such a deposit for a reservation and if they do it's minimal. The cost of the food being served is miniscule in terms of the amount they charge, thus they would not be making a profit on non-attending reservers.
Yeah but we're not talking about restaurants, we're talking about flight tickets varying from 10-500$. If you buy a guitar on Ebay for 500$, you bloody well expect it to arrive.
Planes use a lot of kerosine which is bad for the environment. I know this is mostly cost based but I actually prefer flights that are full and overbooking.
Actually no. Your car uses more money on fuel than a plane does, plus only a small percentage of the ticket's cost is for fuel believe it or not. In fact most of the money is paid to airports and taxes. Check Wendover productions for details. So if you speak of saving the environment, you are probably harming it more by doing your groceries than going on vacation.
Thanks a lot for that, I have a statistics midterm tomorrow and I've been studying whole day. I wanted to get some peace of mind by watching some UA-cam videos and this happens...
When I was 3 me and my whole family were bording a plane. We had reserved 2 rows of seats cause we were six people. We got to are row and there were 2 strangers where my mom and my 1 year old sis was supposed to be. We asked the flight attendant why these strangers were in are seats. We looked at are tickets and there was the same seat number on are tickets. So I was a 3 year old sitting in the middle of 2 strangers crying because my mom and my sis would not be able to fly with us. My dad and other siblings were behind me. But I was still very scared. They ended up bumping out the two people in are seats.
Penguin Person imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
I have no problem with it considering how expensive it is to run an airline, however I have a problem with it when my grandma at the age of 83 is trying to get home to her grandkids and she gets bumped to a flight leaving the next day. That's fucked up.
The thing is, it IS almost entirely about money, and it's not entirely unethical that it is that way. Airlines is one of the toughest industries to survive in, and if they didn't do it, they'd have to cover it some other way like hiking ticket prices or nickle and diming even more so than they already do now. I'd rather have slight chance of getting booked than to constantly pay higher fare and get nickel and dimed every time. There's no perfect solution but they're not doing this for charity.
Fif0l I'm not complaining, simply because I've only ever been on a plane once. This video is more for just information and people who catch flights regularly.
Selling non-refundable tickets makes it less ethical to overbook. They already made what the flight is worth, the rest is greed. I also prefer the flight not to be full.
this is how you get first class at no additional cost at times though. economy seats are always the most likely to be sold out while first class seats not so much due to the price. so if at the counter they see the economy seat you had purchased has already been taken but first class still has available seats, they will more then likely ask if you'd like to upgrade at no additional cost. but as I mentioned this happens AT TIMES, not all the time.
Life Pro Tip: If you are removed from a plane you can receive up to $1300 if your rebooked flight is greater than 2 hours from your original flight. I don’t know when but maybe since that united airlines debacle, you can get money for being involuntarily removed from a plane due to over booking. I was removed from a plane and my rebooking was greater than two hours, and the airline paid me 400% of the one way ticket value. What’s worse is that they are supposed to cut you a check at the gate, but the agent didn’t tell me and I didn’t know. I asked for a partial refund once I got home and the customer service agent said sorry nothing we can do, even after I told them of me being kicked off. Begrudgingly I accepted it, a few days later, just out of curiosity I googled removal from plane policies and that link popped up from DOT. I submitted a claim with them and told the airlines of the regulation, and a few weeks later I was told I would be getting a check for over 900$. Yay.
A friend of mine is a pilot with a major carrier. The number of seats beyond capacity sold varies with the route, the time of day, and the day of the year. You can find that a very popular business route, like New York-Chicago will overbook by 100%. That's because business travelers get caught in meetings and miss flights. Flights out of Las Vegas overbook, because people literally lose track of time in the casinos. For major routes out of New York and L.A , they will overbook first class. Once, my wife and I volunteered our seats for a Vegas-O'Hare flight. We had to fly to LAX to get a flight to ORD. While gate agent got us into first going to LAX, he said first on LAX-ORD was full. Guess what? When we pushed back, there were 4 empty seats in first. That means that 4 people missed the flight. Airlines also overbook knowing that on any given day, people will miss flights due to missed connections, due to weather, mechanical issues, and the like. As for other situations, I have missed doctor appointments, restaurant reservations, limo and taxi pick-ups, and service appointments for my car, for various reasons.
It kinda is. That's why they need to pay the compensations/damages if neccessary. And that is also is exactly what the video stated. That's why bumping usually costs way more then the ticket.
Vivian Yu You shouldn't care because they ALREADY PAID FOR IT. You get what you pay for. If you ask money for something you may not be able to deliver, without telling the costumer, that's illegal.
Jakromha it's not really illegal as they will still be able to go on a later flight (which might even be paid for by the airlines due to the bumping). They are still getting what they paid for, but not under all the conditions that they wanted (that being time of flight and seat option). That's why if you ever get bumped usually the airlines will pay for a hotel for you in the mean time as well. So while you're not getting the same product that you did pay for, you're getting reimbursed with the promise of getting on the next flight
well theres usually people that ask to get on the bumping list, cause they like the benefits of it and dont mind going on another flight , so its kinda "okay" for the most part .
It has happened to us enroute from AKL to YYZ. On the LAX to YYZ leg our family of 4 sat as a pair and two singles spread through the plane. The return leg was worse, we didn't get on to our scheduled flight. We were given the option of upgrading out seats the next morning if we would fly via New York or Denver. I said "we would take the Denver flight because it was the general direction of where we should be going." The airline did not pay for the hotel but I finally managed to get this reimbursed by Webjet. Hi from NZ, Anthony
kurpingspace productions imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
why does everyone hate me :l i just took some lyrics of a song and put it as a comment because it matches the topic of the comment that i just replied to nevermind
gosh darnit, was watching this video to take my mind off my maths revision, now all I can think about is the binomial distribution questions I need to do
Overbooking is illegal in some countries like Brazil. The problems caused to passengers who cannot take the flight are bigger than just a night in a local hotel.
I volunteer at a community theatre and contractual obligations with publishers forbid us to sell more tickets than what theatre holds. We cannot “double sell” any seat unless original buyer surrenders it. Airlines should do the same. We’d all have to pay more for tickets though. Would you be willing to pay 10% more for every flight in order to never be bumped?
its just good if you get overbooked since they have to pay you a lot for their mistakes. i was once on a flight that was overbooked by over 50 seats (it was like a 200 seat plane) and they had to pay like 900€ for the flight and a night in all inclusive hotel. and the best part was when they forgot to load the luggage to the next plane they also had to pay up to 1000€ for any clothes, shoes, bags or any other personal stuff we bought from the local stores. so yea we basically got the trip for free + some new clothes and other stuff for free and it only took 2 days off of our trip
Dennis Haupt only about 30% book a specific seat in advance, and these are people that show up aproxomatly 100% of the time, so those seats are usually not overbooked
that's why you don't get bumped, because you probably selected your seat prior to showing up at the airport. People that get bumped are the ones who wait to get to the airport to check in and they are the last ones to do so. Unless someone volunteers, airlines will bump passengers in order of check in time.
Technically you can't book a specific seat, all you do is "call dibs" on it. Any number of things can happen that causes the airline to swap the intended aircraft with another, in which case your seat might not even exist. Your preferred seat cannot be guaranteed until you actually check in for your flight. You can normally do this online up to 24 hours before departure (depending on the airline).
They should bump passengers based off of destination not class or random, like if you are going to a funeral you get priority but if you are going to Disney world
GoatSuit Gaming In cases of overbooking airlines usually ask first for volunteers who would be willing to take a later flight - those that do usually get a voucher towards a future flight as compensation.
No. They shouldn't bump people off. If you paid for the service you get it. No overbooking is the only choice. If i paid the damn ticket to go to Disney Land it's their fault to have booked 2 seats at the same time, not mine. I take the plane, and they end their exhaustive capitalist manners.
I once managed to overbook a flight by 80 seats. The carrier only had to bump off less than 10 pax for that flight. Shows you how accurate their forecast can be
Your seat won't be guaranteed until you actually check in. Selecting a seat at the time of booking is nothing more than "calling dibs" on it. It lets the airline know of your preference, but things happen and they might have to swap the intended aircraft out with another type, in which case your seat might not even exist.
Chidubem Ezinne, it's probably like the last time I flew. For some reason the sold me my ticket but did not assign me a seat. If I selected a seat then I had to pay $60 bucks. When I arrived they tried to bump me.
I've flown quite a bit during my life and have never been denied the seat I reserved. Either I'm very lucky or the seat reservation system works as planned. Perhaps a bit of both?
I fly several times across the USA annually. I have been bumped off of a flight about 3 times in over 17 years. Statistically it will eventually happen to you but it won't be often. They put me up in a nice hotel and fed me and my kiddos. Not too bad for an inconvenience.
We do this alllllll the time at my hotel but that's because we average around 4 no shows a night. I have only had to walk two people due to this but we paid for there stay at the other hotels, we paid for parking, and breakfast so all in all I would say it's fair for both party's. Somtimes the unexpected things in life are awesome
For doctors, sometimes an appointment takes longer than scheduled. Sometimes, it's a new diagnosis (I once had my appt go an hour longer because of a serious chronic diagnosis. That was 15 years ago so I'm ok) Or if everyone's appointment goes just 5 minutes over. That will add up as the day goes on
They get rescheduled on the next available flight, often they are offered upgrades, meal vouchers, hotel (if they have to wait until the next day) and sometimes even cash.
Normally the airline will try to bump someone without a connecting flight, but in the event that it is not possible to do so they will reschedule the passenger all the way to their final destination.
I feel like some of the doctor's office overbooking is also that appointments often run over. Good medicine means they shouldn't be rushing people out, and sometimes what one expects to be a much quicker appointment turns out to be more complicated.
I'm ok with both (1) not overbooking because it disappoints people and (2) overbooking while fairly compensating the people who got bumped. However, many airlines overbook economy class and upgrade bumped passengers to business class (except there is a small chance business class is full).
thexyz but let's say you already paid for something like a cruise and we're not able to board because they over booked you ate now out the thousands of $s
thexyz not if a ton is riding on you getting to your destination, or you're taking a connecting flight, in which case you can't show up for that and lose that money- and then you become one of those people the other airline capitalizes on.
Somebody helps me with my test relating to this pls ! Overbooking is........ A. When you pay more money for a ticket or room than necessary B. Accidental booking beyond capacity C. A branch of mathematics D. A bussiness strategy using math I dont sure whether the answer is B or D urrg Does "math" have the same meaning as "calculation" or st like that cuz my teacher said that math doesnt like calculation so she chose B ?? Helpp
so what this video basically explains is when they over book its cause their greedy bastards taking a chance based on the number of people who will actually show up, so they earn extra money based on those who wont , when things in all reality could work out for both sides 100% of the time if they only booked the amount of seats available, it not only would earn them the amount for each seat perfectly fine but for each person who misses the flight its that much less fuel the plane will use thanks to the lessened weight, not to mention the greater comfort it will bring to people on the plane thanks to the added space, in other words if airlines only booked the number of seats they actually have, they earn a garenteed amount, and it makes their flights more comfortable to their customers due to extra space, there by winning them repeat users but ya know fuck customer satisfaction when theirs a chance you could earn a lil extra cash by over booking
Woah, chill. If a passenger is bumped, they would get an upgrade in their class as well as free gift certificates, with their flights delayed by an hour or two. They also care about customer satisfaction, if not they would not care about bumped passengers. :) Furthermore, the airlines are not doing the services for you for charity. Would you rather have a cheaper ticket, with a chance to get complimentary items by being bumped, or being charged with a significantly higher cost flight??
Jiang Zongzhe. What if your flight is at 2:00 AM and the destination is at 8:00 and you have an exam at 10:00 AM. Motherfuckers from the airline decide not to give you your seat and give you a flight from 5:00 AM to 1:00 PM. Bad luck,you missed the exam/interview/meeting/(insert important event here). I don't think anybody would care about the class increase in this particular case. They should add a sorta "insurance tax" where you have a 100% chance to not be a victim of overbooking,like 10% of the ticket's price. This way,if you have something important going on, you can assure you get there.
No offense, but if you have an exam, you are most probably staying in that country. You should have a job in your country, considering that your country has the luxury of flying, as well as being well connected to the Internet. If you have to move to a different country to work in a different area of an international company, you are most likely not working immediately. Furthermore, you would have to settle down first. If you are attending a funeral, you could do it on the second day. You could also inform the employees about your situation and issue you the next available, which is most likely be half an hour to a few hours. There might already be such a thing as an insurance for overbooking tho :) Overall, having an urgent flight is fairly uncommon as you are more likely to be traveling overseas, which you could take your time. Your point was valid tho, I do admit that it is unethical of them to overbook flights. However, if you could keep calm and settle it down without any arguments, you should only have a short delay and you might see a few special privileges coming. :)
No offense, but if you have an exam, you are most probably staying in that country. You should have a job in your country, considering that your country has the luxury of flying, as well as being well connected to the Internet. If you have to move to a different country to work in a different area of an international company, you are most likely not working immediately. Furthermore, you would have to settle down first. If you are attending a funeral, you could do it on the second day. You could also inform the employees about your situation and issue you the next available, which is most likely be half an hour to a few hours. There might already be such a thing as an insurance for overbooking tho :) Overall, having an urgent flight is fairly uncommon as you are more likely to be traveling overseas, which you could take your time. Your point was valid tho, I do admit that it is unethical of them to overbook flights. However, if you could keep calm and settle it down without any arguments, you should only have a short delay and you might see a few special privileges coming. :)
Without it consumers would have to pay more. If people valued the certanty of getting seats over the price that costs they would use airlines that dont have overbooking but people dont becuase they know the chance of getting bumbed off is worth the money saved to them. Besides airlines auction off rewards to those who leave so the people who value getting on that flight the lest are the ones who dont go because theyll take the least amount of rewards to get on the next flight instead
Great video, well scripted, and excellent animation! But let's look at its contents: The educated class is failing to set an ethical standard by merely justifying capitalist excess. Just because the flights stand to gain more money is not a valid argument to allow that to happen. The ones who miss the flight, have still paid for it. Overbooking is unethical. Let's not try and justify it with trivial high-school level mathematics. The more we allow such models to propagate through society, the worse the human experience gets.
That is what I was thinking. Even if you are 99.999% sure the person isn't going to show up it is still unethical to sell it. Just as a for instance, say I was a passenger who wanted a private flight but didn't like small planes so I bought the entire flight out. They then overbook and I am stuck riding with other people even though I paid for all of the seats. The same goes for me as an individual, if I had an agreement to sell something to someone and sold it to someone else because I assumed the person wouldn't show up I'd be liable for breech of contract. Or worse, I sold it two people and just gave it to the one who showed up on time to collect...that might even get me in trouble for fraud.
shouldn't such decisions be made by customers, analyzing how oft a company overbooks? its seems pretty unfair to use your ethics and apply it to a specific group, using force or/and violence.
Philipe Who said anything about force and violence? And besides that, ethics has been a part of business forever. Why do you think business degrees have ethics class requirements?
90% of people in this commentary section would agree on heavily regulating things such as overbooking. I don't disagree that ethics and business should walk together, but in a peaceful and non coercive way.
ehh.. just move to indonesia.. you order a 8:00 flight and got take off exactly at 15:00 plus a candy (or two candies) for apology, not because of overbooking, but the plane capacity isn't filled enough that they decided to combine the flight that day ^^
British Airways bumped me off once and compensated me £500... but i managed to finagle my way to the same destination on another flight 2 hours later (free) - worked out well!
If this happened to me I would be furious. It should be illegal to sell something you don't have imo - i.e. selling two seats when you only have one to sell.
Happened to me, got to stay in a high class hotel and got a pre-vacation before going home for the holidays. IMO airlines should actually announce it when they overbook, I'm pretty sure more than one person in each flight is more than willing to stay on a hotel or wait for a few more hours for a few incentives(it what happened to me, the airline announced if anybody was willing to stay to get a free flight anywhere in the country).
Is this more common practise in the US? Because I live in Europe and this has never happened to me. And how odes it work? With airlines I flew, you book a specific seat, and you sit at that 1 seat in particular. So I don't understand how they could overbook unless they sell some seats twice?
Fantastic explanation of the mathematics behind over booking...Ofcourse, there is no single and straight answer for whether its ethical or not and this answer may also vary for the factors used by different airlines..Intense competition in any field must sek support for technology to come up with a wise and best decision..Thanks for the video
Have you never in your life dropped some plan you made? After paying for a ticket number of things can happen. Oblivious people oversleep, busy people might have something important to do instead of what they wanted to do on their plane trip, a car crash might happen, either with you involved, or with somebody else, slowing the entire traffic down. Generally traffic jams, you know. Stuff like that. It's not like people decide "oh, I'm just gonna burn 300$ in a furnace".
The idea is to decide the exact number of tickets to sell to maximize profit at the average of all possibilities. The airlines hire people with Masters degrees just to answer that question. It is harder than you think.
Ernie imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
But it doesn't factor in the most obvious variable: the penalty you need to pay if you cancel it.. overbooking decisions greatly depend on how much they can recover with fees per cancelled seat. Plus if I don't show up at all without cancelling, I just lose the ticket afaik.
Yes but by this logic (my comment) they may not lose money at all, or barely any. So to sell, say, 5% more tickets anyway (if 5% is the expected cancellation rate in a given scenario /flight, time of day/) it must mean these companies are actually greedy by wanting even more money they would get with a 100% show-up rate. But I understand it is business so... gotta live with it.
Zwerggoldhamster I'm pretty sure there's no way to know that the person you are selling to won't show up by 100%. Because if you as the seller know - then the buyer must also know, which means that he/she would not be buying at all (under normal circumstances). I'm happy to be proven wrong though!
What if a ticket holder had an emergency and cancelled their flight. This way the airline would know that passenger would not be coming, but the ticket was already bought since the situation came up unexpectedly.
I wonder if/how this calculation changes for different classes (1st Class vs Coach) passengers. Would a 1st Class passenger be more or less likely to arrive for their reservation?
This is actually what practically every college does. Since their yields are well below 100%, they admit significantly more students than can actually enter.
There are 2 culprits: -the company that just make what they're here for: money -people who don't take their flights. Since it's no news that companies make money, the only culprit are people who miss their flight. If everyone went to take their flight, companies wouldn't overbook. When you have to take a flight, you MUST be there on time, even if you need to come hours and hours before it, because all of that overbooking thing is caused by the late people, and don't get me wrong with stuff like "there was a slowdown on my way to the airport" "I forgot something" and cie, all of that is YOURS to take account of.
Do they give the seat to the passenger that arrived first, or purchased the ticket first? Because in the case of United Airlines, the passenger was already seated.
Instead of overbooking they should have a system like Priceline for hotels. Travelers looking to travel anywhere cheaply could have an app that tells them flights leaving soon that have empty seats due to no shows and pay a discounted price.
That could be very problamatic, since passangers can show up for their flight untill the very last minute it's taking off, and even if it doesn't happen often, when it happens that a passanger got just in time and that person that bought it tickets have to leave, it's very troublesome and delay the flight... Priceline probably offer rooms where the guest cancelled his reservation
If they’re asking for volunteers to get off a plane ask the highest they can go for and then some. The reason they want volunteers is so that they can give you airline vouchers instead of having to bump someone off and paying full price for their ticket in cash + a free flight. You can get $1000 dollars in vouchers this way.
the world is built around statistics. And they explicitely state that 50 000 people get bumped off their flights every year... out of tens of millions, that's less of a probability than dying from a car crash. and people don't bet on dying from a car crash; otherwise we'd not be driving cars. If we bet our lives on statistics, why should the Airline not bet the couple of hours of our time it takes for them to find us a replacement flight. hell they could give a thousand dollars to each customer and still make a profit
So you'd rather pay quite a bit more for your ticket just to save that slim chance of having your flight delayed in exchange for a compensation, is that it?
the last sentence "what number seperates us from being ethical than practical"you said represents the dissatisfaction i have with studying pobability......and i am dissatisfied that it ends abruptly....... i mean..... what is difference between an event being 70% probable vsbeing 75 % probable?
0:42 God, I hate it when I miss my flight due to alien abduction. So rude.
4:26 the alien gave her a ride to the plane
Lol
Did u just predict area 51 memes
Probably just the alien that escaped from Area 51. No big deal.
I just got kicked out of my flight to Nevada area 51 it really sucks😭😤😤
Happiest flight I've ever been on was when I got bumped and had to miss a relative's wedding.
Had a great weekend at home, then flew on vacation a month later to some place I actually wanted to go.
"oh noo i can't come i got bumped" while smiling and laughing
simply sell overbooking tickets as such and at a discount. so people buying them are aware of the risks of being bumped and can't complain later. but noooooo. let's sell the same thing twice.
GraveUypo but who would buy overbooking tickets and take the risk of being bumped?
anna - chan i guess they could do that but they make way more money this way (thx XD i love sloths)
GraveUypo but theres a huge problem with that; they'll sell even more tickets which are "at risk" and because they are so cheap, they can just claim that its your own fault for buying them, and they can just cash in the earnings
GraveUypo most people wouldn't buy the ticket if they *knew* they could be bumped. plus the tickets would have to be sold at dirt cheap prices. obviously the airline wants you to buy the ticket at the highest price you will pay!
adtc yeah thats what I said
Who are these people who dont show up for flights or appointments?
If I have a plane flight at 11am tomorrow, You better believe Im wide awake at 3am ironing socks getting ready to leave
Brodha Sattva Sh💩t happens; not everything can be predicted. Car accidents, traffic, medical emergencies, timing issues, failing to wake up on time, and general 🐤uck-ups can spring up at bad times and screw everything up.
No way that’s 10% of people though
Sometimes people get sick very unexpectedly
@@endermeap6488 The numbers in the video are exemplary, so that they have something to illustrate the calculations. They stressed that several times.
no your supposed to wake up 1 am two days earlier to start driving to the flight then spend 40 hours in the airport doing nothing then go on your flight
its definitely unethical , i missed my pg entrance exam because of this attitude of airlines
Wow. Ok. That sucks. I don't think anything can repay you for that. (Not sarcasm)
yep, kinda sucks. but there are worst things in life though. Be positive.
you could sue the airline and even if you loose the school would have to let you take the exam (this works were I live please check your laws if you want to take legal action)
Jacob Smith no sadly the exam is centralized conducted all over india, wont repeat it just for 1 student , if it was just internal exam in a school then it would have worked, airlines compensated this with a free ticket in business class, and they made me go through ant sized terms n conditions written at the bottom of e-ticket :-(
Then you should have taken the extra time to read the contract where they tell you explicitly that the plane might be overbooked and that you agree that they are not to be held responsible for any consequences resulting from overbooking. Knowing that you would have taken the necessary step to insure you were there on time. Sorry for your exam bro but it's your fault
it happend to me
I was the bumped passenger
and got the next free flight with an upgrade and got the cash back
hamza tahir fuck that, I would grab by hair someone already on board and throw him out of my fucking plane. Solved
krtek Were you one of the security guards on that United flight?
krtek I guess you work for United Airlines
Dj H lucky then
krtek yeah and then get sued for a ton of money.
any percent is unethical. if that person payed for the service you are responsible for providing it, Whether they are there or not. else wise how is it different from robbery?
Chris ar Its only robbery if they don't provide you with the service you paid for. But because they do get you to where you paid to go, then its not robbery. Also its in their terms of service. So you agreed to the possibility of not being able to go on the plane you chose, when you purchase the ticket. Unethical, but not robbery
PDX Air I suppose you're right if it's in terms of service. But in theory what if you just wanted to buy the seat beside you for more room on your flight and they filled it. You're still there, but they aren't providing the service you payed for. It probably comes down to terns of service again. What are you actually agreeing to I guess.
No PDX, it's still fraud. Let me put it this way:
I tell 10 people I have an apple for them, they give me 2$ each, for the explicit promise that I will give them an apple at next recess. I then approach three other people, and offer them Timmy, Jimmy and Bernard's apples. They also agree, and give me 2$ each.
At recess, 10 apples go out to 10 people, but Timmy, Jimmy, and Bernard, whom I had a deal with, have _not_ received any apples. The deal was that they paid me 2$ - which they did - and I'd give them an apple at recess, which I didn't.
Now before we go any further: Is this fraud or not? I have taken money in exchange for a promise of goods, and have not delivered on this promise. What's even worse, I deliberately sold three apples that were already sold. Conclusion: this is fraud.
Then I give Jimmy, Timmy and Bernard 2$ and a pear each at the end of the school day, but now they've been starving for a few hours because I took their money and didn't provide the food I promised them. It doesn't matter if they have the money or the food now, because they're going home where there's an abundance of food and money. I still committed fraud, and they still paid for it, even if I "payed them back" later.
Selling the same shit twice is not a new thing in economics, but as many great economists, sociologists and philosophers will tell you, that sort of fraudulent, unethical business is exactly what's gonna collapse the world economy. What's even better is, it already did. The economic crisis in 2008 was created in this exact way. Overbooking any little loan or mortgage, and pushing the amount of "virtual" airplane seats as far possible, until the whole thing collapsed.
It is fraud, and it is toxic.
The customer pays to arrive at a certain destination at a certain time. Deliberately planning to not provide that service to a certain number of people who paid for it is fraudulent. And no, burying your admission of this practise in thousands of words of industry jargon does not constitute informed consent.
Pelle Apelfeldt Well no, Pelle. If I save 3$ by defrauding 3 people, there's no law that says that money isn't going in my pocket. There _is_ a law that says fraud is illegal though.
Also:
1) Where do you get those 10$ from? 13*2=26. If I had to make the same money off only 10 people, it would be 26/10=2.6. So it obviously wouldn't be 10$ an apple.
2) How would the production cost rise? It would cost more to turn a profit if less people were buying, but that doesn't have much to do with a rise in production cost, nor the conversation.
3) Are you seriously comparing fraud to some altruistic vision of airline tickets for all? The free market isn't some magically self adjusting, completely sustainable utopia where every shady business trick is good, because it lowers the price for the general consumer. Any and all money that _can_ be pocketed, _will_ be pocketed.
solutions to the ethics question:
1. be more open to all who book about the possibility of being bumped. Explain the cost difference every ticket would have without overbooking.
2. sell "safe from overbooking" seats and "at risk from overbooking" seats with price differences and explanation of the (small) risks involved.
Problem with ethics is it cuts into the bottom line...
yeah, but not as much as not overbooking in general. It's possible to move the discussion away from "be a good person or make money".
Doesn't charging more for a guaranteed ticket kind of defeat the purpose of better ticket prices with overbooking?
Darth Obscurity No, because the lower price tickets are still subsidising the higher price ones.
Sammy Salter Lol. So pay more to get a seat for sure or cheaper ticket and maybe get bumped and screw you? And you don't understand how there is no taking ethics out of it?
This video should just be the words "Because they are twats".
Well, they need to make money.
Jon Gomm i couldn’t stop laughing. Thanks mate
Jon Gomm actually it should be titled, “How Overbooking is Better Business”
It was actually really insightful.
Vasilijan Nikolovski they won’t make as much revenue, resulting in more expensive tickets for everyone else.
I'm often stunned by how big companies act sometimes. It's like they're run by heartless machines instead of people.
Well in a sense they are faceless machines. You see these “higher ups” don’t see the faces of the people they are conning it’s the poor underpaid staff that the public always abuse, and who gives a monkeys about the staff, not the higher ups and not the customers. See the staff need money to survive and are forced to take these medial jobs where they get treated like dirt by customers and the company they work for, on the lowest salaries with the least benefits.
It's as if...gasp...they care about money and not the feelings of their customers.
it is technically the best option for the company though. it probably only makes a very small portion of people unhappy for a lot of money
common jewish behaviour
At times though it's these heartless machines make things stay afloat that it calculates the best probable outcomes to benefit the maximum population. It's all good except for those ones who got left behind
ARE you KIDDING? This is what I had to calculate in my maths exam yesterday?!
are you serious?
it was in my final maths exams as well :D
3picHamster maybe ted-ed is your math teacher and wanted to troll you
The math behind
drive.google.com/file/d/0B93JDfB48rRiVExJR2RWM2g2bG8/view
i write math exams tomorrow. im sitting right next to my exercice books and my computer....
Do you really think big companies are ethical?
No, never :-)
No, they are ethically-neutral and care mostly about money. You can easily manipulate them via monetary incentives and fines (as they will follow what is best for them), but have to avoid having grey areas etc. (when them avoiding you / bribes are the best option for them etc.).
Sigmund Trutt well she talked about penalties.
Jinsi K
Because regulations cannot be bribed. That is the definition of bribe :P
And no, I do not, you have lost your bet.
MajkaSrajka imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
Is this a thing in USA? I fly 2 times per year in Europe and we buy the tickets based on seat numbers. If a seat is already taken then you cannot choose it again. Maybe me and my friends are lucky but we've never been dumped before (based on dozens of flights).
It happens in the U.S all the time, the worst part is some don't even give you a refund.
That sucks big time -.-
Péter Menyhárt exactly, but sometimes you can buy seats without seat numbers, and the numbers are assigned close or in the same day of the flight. those are the ones that get bumped off.
Thanks for the explanation :)
They will often ask for volunteers, and offer them goodies such as free upgrades, food vouchers, hotel if needed, and sometimes even cash. In 99.9% of these cases, someone will volunteer to get bumped. In the 0.1% of cases where nobody is willing to volunteer, they will pick someone who is travelling alone, has no connecting flight, and is not an elite frequent flier.
“Sorry sir, we sold your ticket that you waited for 6 hours here, Please get off the plane or I will contact the police.”
Hahahahhsha It was funny 😂
I bet they only do that to new or infrequent customers, cuz I know for sure I would never buy anything from a company who did this to me, and my ghost will haunt their offprints after I'm gone.
Make the police come. Waste their time since they wasted your time
''it's your fault that you didn't plan ahead for the consequence that we sold you products you pay for which we weren't even guaranteed to have.'' --every people defending in the comment section be like.
4:27 No, that does not make it okay to sell somebody's seat. If I paid for a seat on a flight, it is my seat, regardless of whether I show up or not. If the airlines gave refunds to people that didn't show up, then it would be fine, but they don't. If something is paid for, you should not be legally allowed to sell it again. The only reason this is allowed, is because airlines pay lobbyists to "persuade" congress to allow it.
Not only that, they don't announce that your seat got a chance to be taken, they just sell you the ticket, basically make you gamble without inform you that you're doing it
Without it consumers would have to pay more. If people valued the certanty of getting seats over the price that costs they would use airlines that dont have overbooking but people dont becuase they know the chance of getting bumbed off is worth the money saved to them. Besides airlines auction off rewards to those who leave so the people who value getting on that flight the lest are the ones who dont go because theyll take the least amount of rewards to get on the next flight instead
They either sell it to accommodate someone else, or there is a useless empty seat
@@catandcomparator how would you feel if you needed to be in another country TOMORROW for something HUGE but THEN because your airline was a piece of SH** you missed it, and worst of all, you didnt even get a refund!
If I want to buy a seat on a flight to anywhere and put a basketball in it, that’s my choice. The airline’s only ethical course of action is to fly my basketball or refund my purchase price. A company cannot ethically sell the same good to two people for consumption at the same time.
why isn't this illegal?
kurpingspace productions No, it's just better for the airline
If the airlines can use their resources more efficiently, it should lead to lower ticket prices and lower environmental impact for all of us.
Well, the government would have to make that law, which would be really hypocritical considering the government is the worst overbooker of all. They can accomodate for spending more than they thought they would have to by raising interest rates and racking up a $20 tril debt, yo.
It 'should' lead to lower ticket prices, in theory anyway, if you follow what basic economics asserts, but generally it just lines the pockets of those running the company...
What does it mean to be illegal?
In this case, illegal means that if you overbook - you have to pay the fine - in the best case scenario - that you give to your client as compensation.
Then it is still the math problem whenever it is good to sell more seats and pay fines if you are unlucky.
Legality in bussines in a lot of cases is the matter of math (your factory produces too much Co2? you will pay fine if you do etc.), and for a bussines owner it is allways the weigh of all the factors (is it better to operate but pay fine or stop operating / operate at 90%? What is the chance of control? How costly is upgrade to factory that would lower the Co2 emissions? etc.).
So basically Airlines are gambling ?
like every other types of business. surprise
+Schizophrenic Enthusiast Yes, you hit the nail on the head
Yeah but they are always winning
Stake is customer
Gambeling with humaannsss...hey wait a sec
Yep, most aggravating thing in the world! I worked for a hotel in London Heathrow and our specific chain overbooked 15%, which while being great for the chain, was horrible for the staff! On an almost daily basis we had to tell arriving guests that we didn’t have any rooms available even though they had booked and paid for a room, sometimes months in advance! And unlike other hotels in the area, we did not have “overflow rooms”. This meant that the staff ALWAYS got abuse for double booking rooms when it had nothing to do with us! It got to the point where if we saw the bookings were almost at capacity, WE would book rooms on the website to shut it down and only ever ended up with 3 or 4 empty rooms, but they would always be “last resort” rooms due to some sort of issue with them like the TV or shower not working. We used to get into trouble all the time, staff even got fired for doing it, but you see these chains don’t care if the staff get abused, sometimes even physically, because all they care about it the money and not our wellbeing. And the guests don’t care who’s fault it is. Even before my brief stint in the hospitality industry, whenever something like this happens to me I always make sure I express my frustration at the situation and not the the employee who actually never gets paid enough or even acknowledged by the company for the abuse they get for decisions made by faceless unknowns. And because of the way I handle these sorts of situations, I almost always get more than I asked for.
ookhionom.okni
Well it's at least fortunate that most people who have been traveling all day would be really chill about being denied a bed at the last minute. Like yay.
It all depends. I have experienced twice this strange situation. The first time, I got the cash back, a 4 stars hotel's room just for 5 hours of attendance. The second time, I got instead a terrible room in a 2 stars hotel and I had to wait until the flight of the 3 a.m. I consider both times impolite to overbook, but at least the first time they showed that they were sorry.
They could use a waiting ticket option like in Indian railways where your ticket is automatically confirmed if someone cancelled and you know that you won't be kicked at airport+ you can buy a total one in emergency
Most no shows aren't forewarned.
So a restaurant has the right to sell the same stake to two customers on the assumption that one of them is not hungry, vegetarian, sick... etc
a customer has the right to book 2 tables under 2 names and not show up for either...duhhh..its rude and expensive to the restaurant
ive rarely heard of a restaurant NOT having enough Stakes as you say..
but then again im not a vampire
johnny llooddte if they pay a 100%, non-refundable deposit months in advance then it makes no difference if they show up or not. In fact it's cheaper for either company if they don't show.
How much money is said deposit in a resturant. Most resturants don't have such a deposit for a reservation and if they do it's minimal. The cost of the food being served is miniscule in terms of the amount they charge, thus they would not be making a profit on non-attending reservers.
Yeah but we're not talking about restaurants, we're talking about flight tickets varying from 10-500$.
If you buy a guitar on Ebay for 500$, you bloody well expect it to arrive.
Erm you pay for the flight even if you do not turn up
people are weird
Planes use a lot of kerosine which is bad for the environment. I know this is mostly cost based but I actually prefer flights that are full and overbooking.
+Gwen Walravens
So, if you got bumped, you would compliment the company for saving the environment?
HEY Schwarzer Ritter----did ya NOTICE We Are STILL WAITING for Gwen Walravens REPLY!!!!!!!!!
Actually no. Your car uses more money on fuel than a plane does, plus only a small percentage of the ticket's cost is for fuel believe it or not. In fact most of the money is paid to airports and taxes. Check Wendover productions for details. So if you speak of saving the environment, you are probably harming it more by doing your groceries than going on vacation.
Thanks a lot for that, I have a statistics midterm tomorrow and I've been studying whole day. I wanted to get some peace of mind by watching some UA-cam videos and this happens...
When I was 3 me and my whole family were bording a plane. We had reserved 2 rows of seats cause we were six people. We got to are row and there were 2 strangers where my mom and my 1 year old sis was supposed to be. We asked the flight attendant why these strangers were in are seats. We looked at are tickets and there was the same seat number on are tickets. So I was a 3 year old sitting in the middle of 2 strangers crying because my mom and my sis would not be able to fly with us. My dad and other siblings were behind me. But I was still very scared. They ended up bumping out the two people in are seats.
Wait, that's a war crime
Gregory Gaming no it’s not... what are you saying?
Mooplex 1412 I think he means about article 33 of the Geneva Convention, as no innocent person should pay for another’s stupidity.
Mane Playz Makes sense, but I still don’t see how airplanes overbooking.g is a “war crime”
Mooplex 1412 idk either. XD
I'm booked a flight but this one flight attendant keeps bumping me off the plane
Penguin Person the legend27 keeps, kicking your ass
Penguin Person I've heard that The Legend27 was the first attendant ever to bump people off a flight.
Vertinove Yeah, TheLegend27.
I heard, thelegend27 sells extra tickets even if the percentage of someone attending was 100%...
Penguin Person imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
I have no problem with it considering how expensive it is to run an airline, however I have a problem with it when my grandma at the age of 83 is trying to get home to her grandkids and she gets bumped to a flight leaving the next day. That's fucked up.
Willa Hladun But that's the thing, they don't care about your problem. All they're thinking about is the money.
The thing is, it IS almost entirely about money, and it's not entirely unethical that it is that way. Airlines is one of the toughest industries to survive in, and if they didn't do it, they'd have to cover it some other way like hiking ticket prices or nickle and diming even more so than they already do now. I'd rather have slight chance of getting booked than to constantly pay higher fare and get nickel and dimed every time. There's no perfect solution but they're not doing this for charity.
Aizen
Which is fucking the best thing that they could ever do.
+Aizen Kazama how unfortunate that a company wants to earn money, isn't it?
Fif0l I'm not complaining, simply because I've only ever been on a plane once. This video is more for just information and people who catch flights regularly.
This is why I love TED Ed; it answers the questions that actually interest me.
Selling non-refundable tickets makes it less ethical to overbook. They already made what the flight is worth, the rest is greed. I also prefer the flight not to be full.
this is how you get first class at no additional cost at times though. economy seats are always the most likely to be sold out while first class seats not so much due to the price. so if at the counter they see the economy seat you had purchased has already been taken but first class still has available seats, they will more then likely ask if you'd like to upgrade at no additional cost. but as I mentioned this happens AT TIMES, not all the time.
Life Pro Tip: If you are removed from a plane you can receive up to $1300 if your rebooked flight is greater than 2 hours from your original flight.
I don’t know when but maybe since that united airlines debacle, you can get money for being involuntarily removed from a plane due to over booking.
I was removed from a plane and my rebooking was greater than two hours, and the airline paid me 400% of the one way ticket value. What’s worse is that they are supposed to cut you a check at the gate, but the agent didn’t tell me and I didn’t know. I asked for a partial refund once I got home and the customer service agent said sorry nothing we can do, even after I told them of me being kicked off. Begrudgingly I accepted it, a few days later, just out of curiosity I googled removal from plane policies and that link popped up from DOT. I submitted a claim with them and told the airlines of the regulation, and a few weeks later I was told I would be getting a check for over 900$. Yay.
A friend of mine is a pilot with a major carrier. The number of seats beyond capacity sold varies with the route, the time of day, and the day of the year. You can find that a very popular business route, like New York-Chicago will overbook by 100%. That's because business travelers get caught in meetings and miss flights.
Flights out of Las Vegas overbook, because people literally lose track of time in the casinos.
For major routes out of New York and L.A , they will overbook first class.
Once, my wife and I volunteered our seats for a Vegas-O'Hare flight. We had to fly to LAX to get a flight to ORD. While gate agent got us into first going to LAX, he said first on LAX-ORD was full.
Guess what? When we pushed back, there were 4 empty seats in first. That means that 4 people missed the flight.
Airlines also overbook knowing that on any given day, people will miss flights due to missed connections, due to weather, mechanical issues, and the like.
As for other situations, I have missed doctor appointments, restaurant reservations, limo and taxi pick-ups, and service appointments for my car, for various reasons.
Isn't that illegal?
I don't know, but it should be.
It kinda is. That's why they need to pay the compensations/damages if neccessary. And that is also is exactly what the video stated.
That's why bumping usually costs way more then the ticket.
Vivian Yu You shouldn't care because they ALREADY PAID FOR IT. You get what you pay for. If you ask money for something you may not be able to deliver, without telling the costumer, that's illegal.
Jakromha it's not really illegal as they will still be able to go on a later flight (which might even be paid for by the airlines due to the bumping). They are still getting what they paid for, but not under all the conditions that they wanted (that being time of flight and seat option). That's why if you ever get bumped usually the airlines will pay for a hotel for you in the mean time as well. So while you're not getting the same product that you did pay for, you're getting reimbursed with the promise of getting on the next flight
It can be illegal if we the people vote for it. New law: "You can't sell more reservations then you can provide"
well theres usually people that ask to get on the bumping list, cause they like the benefits of it and dont mind going on another flight , so its kinda "okay" for the most part .
1000s if not millions of customers overbook on overbooked flights JUST to get bumped and get the free tickets
@@johnnyllooddte3415 sure, all 50000 people who are bumped yearly do it for the freebies, not because of the hellish landscape that is late capitlism
@@johnnyllooddte3415 this is big brain time
It has happened to us enroute from AKL to YYZ. On the LAX to YYZ leg our family of 4 sat as a pair and two singles spread through the plane. The return leg was worse, we didn't get on to our scheduled flight. We were given the option of upgrading out seats the next morning if we would fly via New York or Denver. I said "we would take the Denver flight because it was the general direction of where we should be going." The airline did not pay for the hotel but I finally managed to get this reimbursed by Webjet.
Hi from NZ,
Anthony
cant believe they showed the animation of aliens taking humans to justify the reason for missing a flight 😂😂😂 at 0:43
Answer : They need to make MONEY
no shit, sherlock.
that's the starting point. the question is the underlying reasons, not the superficial one word one.
wake up we need to make money!
kurpingspace productions imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
why does everyone hate me :l i just took some lyrics of a song and put it as a comment because it matches the topic of the comment that i just replied to
nevermind
Well, yeah. Money drives everything. Money drives progress. In this case, there's also an environmental case for overbooking.
gosh darnit, was watching this video to take my mind off my maths revision, now all I can think about is the binomial distribution questions I need to do
Overbooking is illegal in some countries like Brazil. The problems caused to passengers who cannot take the flight are bigger than just a night in a local hotel.
I volunteer at a community theatre and contractual obligations with publishers forbid us to sell more tickets than what theatre holds. We cannot “double sell” any seat unless original buyer surrenders it. Airlines should do the same. We’d all have to pay more for tickets though. Would you be willing to pay 10% more for every flight in order to never be bumped?
its just good if you get overbooked since they have to pay you a lot for their mistakes. i was once on a flight that was overbooked by over 50 seats (it was like a 200 seat plane) and they had to pay like 900€ for the flight and a night in all inclusive hotel. and the best part was when they forgot to load the luggage to the next plane they also had to pay up to 1000€ for any clothes, shoes, bags or any other personal stuff we bought from the local stores. so yea we basically got the trip for free + some new clothes and other stuff for free and it only took 2 days off of our trip
i always book a specific seat. how would bumping work in this case? they don't even have an excuse
Dennis Haupt only about 30% book a specific seat in advance, and these are people that show up aproxomatly 100% of the time, so those seats are usually not overbooked
that's why you don't get bumped, because you probably selected your seat prior to showing up at the airport. People that get bumped are the ones who wait to get to the airport to check in and they are the last ones to do so. Unless someone volunteers, airlines will bump passengers in order of check in time.
Technically you can't book a specific seat, all you do is "call dibs" on it. Any number of things can happen that causes the airline to swap the intended aircraft with another, in which case your seat might not even exist. Your preferred seat cannot be guaranteed until you actually check in for your flight. You can normally do this online up to 24 hours before departure (depending on the airline).
Dennis Haupt q
They should bump passengers based off of destination not class or random, like if you are going to a funeral you get priority but if you are going to Disney world
GoatSuit Gaming In cases of overbooking airlines usually ask first for volunteers who would be willing to take a later flight - those that do usually get a voucher towards a future flight as compensation.
GoatSuit Gaming well shit my grandma had the same funeral twice 😂
GoatSuit Gaming people would just lie
it goes based off check in time. It isn't random.
No. They shouldn't bump people off. If you paid for the service you get it. No overbooking is the only choice. If i paid the damn ticket to go to Disney Land it's their fault to have booked 2 seats at the same time, not mine. I take the plane, and they end their exhaustive capitalist manners.
Off topic: I love her voice! I can definitely see myself going to sleep while listening to her
SIMP jk
I remember doing this math problem in HS. Colleges do the same with freshman dorms (because a percentage inevitably drop or decide not to enroll)
I once managed to overbook a flight by 80 seats. The carrier only had to bump off less than 10 pax for that flight. Shows you how accurate their forecast can be
What happens when it's a flight that you get to choose your seat? Does each seat get overbooked?
My guess is that there is always an option of not buying a specific seat, so if somebody is a no show you get his.
Your seat won't be guaranteed until you actually check in. Selecting a seat at the time of booking is nothing more than "calling dibs" on it. It lets the airline know of your preference, but things happen and they might have to swap the intended aircraft out with another type, in which case your seat might not even exist.
Chidubem Ezinne, it's probably like the last time I flew. For some reason the sold me my ticket but did not assign me a seat. If I selected a seat then I had to pay $60 bucks. When I arrived they tried to bump me.
I've flown quite a bit during my life and have never been denied the seat I reserved. Either I'm very lucky or the seat reservation system works as planned. Perhaps a bit of both?
Just curious, when did airlines start doing this historically? Any idea?
cyberprimate when they figured out that many ppl suck at punctuality
when they figured out they could do non refundable tickets.
and they charge you more for being closer to the date even though it's the same exact seat
cetriya's Art n Comics Channel they know you're desperate
That’s how airlines make money. The fewer seats available, the higher the price will be.
It’s supply and demand. The closer to the date, the less seats available but the demand is staying the same or even bigger so the price is raised
I fly several times across the USA annually. I have been bumped off of a flight about 3 times in over 17 years. Statistically it will eventually happen to you but it won't be often. They put me up in a nice hotel and fed me and my kiddos. Not too bad for an inconvenience.
We do this alllllll the time at my hotel but that's because we average around 4 no shows a night. I have only had to walk two people due to this but we paid for there stay at the other hotels, we paid for parking, and breakfast so all in all I would say it's fair for both party's. Somtimes the unexpected things in life are awesome
Seems fair seen as they still get the product. Could be a nuisance but it's no the end of the world.
For doctors, sometimes an appointment takes longer than scheduled. Sometimes, it's a new diagnosis (I once had my appt go an hour longer because of a serious chronic diagnosis. That was 15 years ago so I'm ok)
Or if everyone's appointment goes just 5 minutes over. That will add up as the day goes on
The culture of delay against the culture of punctuality.
When someome gets bumped, do they get their money back or transfer you to another flight?
Salmon Fish yes or the airline company gets sued for a load of cash
They get rescheduled on the next available flight, often they are offered upgrades, meal vouchers, hotel (if they have to wait until the next day) and sometimes even cash.
Okay, thank you guys, now I understand the context of this matter.
Maximilian van Vliet What about the things they miss (e.g. the transport on the next leg of their journe) because they had to take a. later flight?
Normally the airline will try to bump someone without a connecting flight, but in the event that it is not possible to do so they will reschedule the passenger all the way to their final destination.
I feel like some of the doctor's office overbooking is also that appointments often run over. Good medicine means they shouldn't be rushing people out, and sometimes what one expects to be a much quicker appointment turns out to be more complicated.
I'm ok with both (1) not overbooking because it disappoints people and (2) overbooking while fairly compensating the people who got bumped.
However, many airlines overbook economy class and upgrade bumped passengers to business class (except there is a small chance business class is full).
This is stupid, How is it allowed?
to be honest it's not that bad, I would accept being a bumped passenger get the cash and basically fly for free.
What if you HAD to get to your destination that day
thexyz but let's say you already paid for something like a cruise and we're not able to board because they over booked you ate now out the thousands of $s
thexyz not if a ton is riding on you getting to your destination, or you're taking a connecting flight, in which case you can't show up for that and lose that money- and then you become one of those people the other airline capitalizes on.
You_just that's when you make sure you are first in line when you know they are about to board.
This has always been a curiosity of mine, definitely one of the best Ted Eds! So fascinating
Anyone here because of United Airlines?
Khôi Đoàn Tuấn I had watched this before. I just came back because of United
Girrl 🤧
Excellent video. Simple and very easy to understand and her voice is cristal clear (and nice to listen to) 🙂👍
Somebody helps me with my test relating to this pls !
Overbooking is........
A. When you pay more money for a ticket or room than necessary
B. Accidental booking beyond capacity
C. A branch of mathematics
D. A bussiness strategy using math
I dont sure whether the answer is B or D urrg
Does "math" have the same meaning as "calculation" or st like that cuz my teacher said that math doesnt like calculation so she chose B ?? Helpp
so what this video basically explains is when they over book its cause their greedy bastards taking a chance based on the number of people who will actually show up, so they earn extra money based on those who wont , when things in all reality could work out for both sides 100% of the time if they only booked the amount of seats available, it not only would earn them the amount for each seat perfectly fine but for each person who misses the flight its that much less fuel the plane will use thanks to the lessened weight, not to mention the greater comfort it will bring to people on the plane thanks to the added space, in other words if airlines only booked the number of seats they actually have, they earn a garenteed amount, and it makes their flights more comfortable to their customers due to extra space, there by winning them repeat users but ya know fuck customer satisfaction when theirs a chance you could earn a lil extra cash by over booking
Hosah and tickets would cost more.
Woah, chill. If a passenger is bumped, they would get an upgrade in their class as well as free gift certificates, with their flights delayed by an hour or two. They also care about customer satisfaction, if not they would not care about bumped passengers. :)
Furthermore, the airlines are not doing the services for you for charity. Would you rather have a cheaper ticket, with a chance to get complimentary items by being bumped, or being charged with a significantly higher cost flight??
Jiang Zongzhe. What if your flight is at 2:00 AM and the destination is at 8:00 and you have an exam at 10:00 AM. Motherfuckers from the airline decide not to give you your seat and give you a flight from 5:00 AM to 1:00 PM. Bad luck,you missed the exam/interview/meeting/(insert important event here). I don't think anybody would care about the class increase in this particular case. They should add a sorta "insurance tax" where you have a 100% chance to not be a victim of overbooking,like 10% of the ticket's price. This way,if you have something important going on, you can assure you get there.
No offense, but if you have an exam, you are most probably staying in that country.
You should have a job in your country, considering that your country has the luxury of flying, as well as being well connected to the Internet.
If you have to move to a different country to work in a different area of an international company, you are most likely not working immediately. Furthermore, you would have to settle down first.
If you are attending a funeral, you could do it on the second day.
You could also inform the employees about your situation and issue you the next available, which is most likely be half an hour to a few hours.
There might already be such a thing as an insurance for overbooking tho :)
Overall, having an urgent flight is fairly uncommon as you are more likely to be traveling overseas, which you could take your time. Your point was valid tho, I do admit that it is unethical of them to overbook flights. However, if you could keep calm and settle it down without any arguments, you should only have a short delay and you might see a few special privileges coming. :)
No offense, but if you have an exam, you are most probably staying in that country.
You should have a job in your country, considering that your country has the luxury of flying, as well as being well connected to the Internet.
If you have to move to a different country to work in a different area of an international company, you are most likely not working immediately. Furthermore, you would have to settle down first.
If you are attending a funeral, you could do it on the second day.
You could also inform the employees about your situation and issue you the next available, which is most likely be half an hour to a few hours.
There might already be such a thing as an insurance for overbooking tho :)
Overall, having an urgent flight is fairly uncommon as you are more likely to be traveling overseas, which you could take your time. Your point was valid tho, I do admit that it is unethical of them to overbook flights. However, if you could keep calm and settle it down without any arguments, you should only have a short delay and you might see a few special privileges coming. :)
It should be illegal. It doesn't matter if you show up or not, you paid for your seat and they can't sell it 2ce because of greed.
Without it consumers would have to pay more. If people valued the certanty of getting seats over the price that costs they would use airlines that dont have overbooking but people dont becuase they know the chance of getting bumbed off is worth the money saved to them. Besides airlines auction off rewards to those who leave so the people who value getting on that flight the lest are the ones who dont go because theyll take the least amount of rewards to get on the next flight instead
Great video, well scripted, and excellent animation! But let's look at its contents: The educated class is failing to set an ethical standard by merely justifying capitalist excess. Just because the flights stand to gain more money is not a valid argument to allow that to happen. The ones who miss the flight, have still paid for it. Overbooking is unethical. Let's not try and justify it with trivial high-school level mathematics. The more we allow such models to propagate through society, the worse the human experience gets.
That is what I was thinking. Even if you are 99.999% sure the person isn't going to show up it is still unethical to sell it.
Just as a for instance, say I was a passenger who wanted a private flight but didn't like small planes so I bought the entire flight out. They then overbook and I am stuck riding with other people even though I paid for all of the seats.
The same goes for me as an individual, if I had an agreement to sell something to someone and sold it to someone else because I assumed the person wouldn't show up I'd be liable for breech of contract. Or worse, I sold it two people and just gave it to the one who showed up on time to collect...that might even get me in trouble for fraud.
Totally!
shouldn't such decisions be made by customers, analyzing how oft a company overbooks? its seems pretty unfair to use your ethics and apply it to a specific group, using force or/and violence.
Philipe Who said anything about force and violence? And besides that, ethics has been a part of business forever. Why do you think business degrees have ethics class requirements?
90% of people in this commentary section would agree on heavily regulating things such as overbooking. I don't disagree that ethics and business should walk together, but in a peaceful and non coercive way.
ehh.. just move to indonesia.. you order a 8:00 flight and got take off exactly at 15:00 plus a candy (or two candies) for apology, not because of overbooking, but the plane capacity isn't filled enough that they decided to combine the flight that day ^^
British Airways bumped me off once and compensated me £500... but i managed to finagle my way to the same destination on another flight 2 hours later (free) - worked out well!
The videos are short, precise and edifying. Turn this into an app!⚡
If this happened to me I would be furious. It should be illegal to sell something you don't have imo - i.e. selling two seats when you only have one to sell.
Laudrengen , happened to me once. Was offered business-class seat. So it depends as always
Happened to me, got to stay in a high class hotel and got a pre-vacation before going home for the holidays. IMO airlines should actually announce it when they overbook, I'm pretty sure more than one person in each flight is more than willing to stay on a hotel or wait for a few more hours for a few incentives(it what happened to me, the airline announced if anybody was willing to stay to get a free flight anywhere in the country).
hey Ted-ed, i wanna know how does the hubble telescope works?
LOVED this video! the graphics and topics were super interesting
Is this more common practise in the US? Because I live in Europe and this has never happened to me. And how odes it work? With airlines I flew, you book a specific seat, and you sit at that 1 seat in particular. So I don't understand how they could overbook unless they sell some seats twice?
Me: This is unethical!
Airlines: Nope. Mathematical! ;)
Fantastic explanation of the mathematics behind over booking...Ofcourse, there is no single and straight answer for whether its ethical or not and this answer may also vary for the factors used by different airlines..Intense competition in any field must sek support for technology to come up with a wise and best decision..Thanks for the video
Because they know some people won't show up. There took 5 seconds.
Porkchop's Papi
but what about the youtube money? this ain't vine
Have you never in your life dropped some plan you made? After paying for a ticket number of things can happen. Oblivious people oversleep, busy people might have something important to do instead of what they wanted to do on their plane trip, a car crash might happen, either with you involved, or with somebody else, slowing the entire traffic down. Generally traffic jams, you know. Stuff like that.
It's not like people decide "oh, I'm just gonna burn 300$ in a furnace".
because they care more about profit than about people
The idea is to decide the exact number of tickets to sell to maximize profit at the average of all possibilities.
The airlines hire people with Masters degrees just to answer that question. It is harder than you think.
Ernie imagine a plane with 50seats and your big mexican family of 50members. Atleast five of them will not be allowed get on that plane? That's fucking bullshit
I was bumped off a flight once. I was thirteen and it was my first time flying alone.
this is why i learn more from ted-ed than my 6th grade days
As someone who fly's standby, I like those odds
But it doesn't factor in the most obvious variable: the penalty you need to pay if you cancel it.. overbooking decisions greatly depend on how much they can recover with fees per cancelled seat.
Plus if I don't show up at all without cancelling, I just lose the ticket afaik.
GaborBartal They simplified and didn't include all facts and factors
Yes but by this logic (my comment) they may not lose money at all, or barely any. So to sell, say, 5% more tickets anyway (if 5% is the expected cancellation rate in a given scenario /flight, time of day/) it must mean these companies are actually greedy by wanting even more money they would get with a 100% show-up rate. But I understand it is business so... gotta live with it.
If you are 100 percent sure a person wont show up, is it unethical to sell them a ticket?
Zwerggoldhamster I'm pretty sure there's no way to know that the person you are selling to won't show up by 100%. Because if you as the seller know - then the buyer must also know, which means that he/she would not be buying at all (under normal circumstances). I'm happy to be proven wrong though!
What if a ticket holder had an emergency and cancelled their flight. This way the airline would know that passenger would not be coming, but the ticket was already bought since the situation came up unexpectedly.
I wonder if/how this calculation changes for different classes (1st Class vs Coach) passengers. Would a 1st Class passenger be more or less likely to arrive for their reservation?
I bet this video gained a couple hundred thousand views in the past few days
For anyone taking up statistics and probability right now, this is the newsboy problem.
Lance Lindle Lee I agree, whoever made this did not think of many things. (hint: rare events)
even with the rare events airlines still make money overbooking while selling only the seats they had they would go bankrupt.
This happened to me before with my sister for a flight. Our ticket got upgraded for free and we got business class instead :)
Wow, a bigger seat. Totally worth the wasted hours and fkd up travel schedule ._.
I've known this a long time. Good explanation.
This is the same as 'news boy problem' in operations research, also using expected value given probabilities.
I have a feeling this practice is much more common in the US than in Europe or other less greedy places...
as if the EU is any better.
they do it a lot more.
mberg1974 I don't think that's true. It's an industry wide practice.
Amara Akhtar you sure? I've never heard of it, or been on a flight where it has happened.
HA "less greedy places" HA come live here in Africa we are very very generous
This is actually what practically every college does. Since their yields are well below 100%, they admit significantly more students than can actually enter.
This kinda feels like the prisoners dilemma, a business type
There are 2 culprits:
-the company that just make what they're here for: money
-people who don't take their flights.
Since it's no news that companies make money, the only culprit are people who miss their flight. If everyone went to take their flight, companies wouldn't overbook.
When you have to take a flight, you MUST be there on time, even if you need to come hours and hours before it, because all of that overbooking thing is caused by the late people, and don't get me wrong with stuff like "there was a slowdown on my way to the airport" "I forgot something" and cie, all of that is YOURS to take account of.
Do they give the seat to the passenger that arrived first, or purchased the ticket first? Because in the case of United Airlines, the passenger was already seated.
hi everyone coming here because of United
Yet they're so expensive
airline prices have been falling relative to infation for decades
I had to sit in the doctor's office for 3.5 hours 😐
Yes.
Next time I came, I came late.
Zachary Blanchard saaame it sucks
Why'd you stay?
Instead of overbooking they should have a system like Priceline for hotels. Travelers looking to travel anywhere cheaply could have an app that tells them flights leaving soon that have empty seats due to no shows and pay a discounted price.
That could be very problamatic, since passangers can show up for their flight untill the very last minute it's taking off, and even if it doesn't happen often, when it happens that a passanger got just in time and that person that bought it tickets have to leave, it's very troublesome and delay the flight...
Priceline probably offer rooms where the guest cancelled his reservation
Holy Atheist you won't know how many no shows there are until maybe 30 min before takeoff. So your suggestion won't be possible :(
If they’re asking for volunteers to get off a plane ask the highest they can go for and then some. The reason they want volunteers is so that they can give you airline vouchers instead of having to bump someone off and paying full price for their ticket in cash + a free flight. You can get $1000 dollars in vouchers this way.
Who's here because of united airlines?
2:51: unless the passenger sues you for selling their ticket, and your revenue is minus a couple million.
a couple million? wtf lol, do you know how suing works?
WeLsHIKiiLLeR1, yes.
It is most probably in the terms of services, which 90% of the people do not read.
there's nothing ethical about this greedy business... you have 180 sell 180.. don't bring probability calculations into real life scenarios
why not?
Because there's a probability all passengers will show up on-time
the world is built around statistics. And they explicitely state that 50 000 people get bumped off their flights every year... out of tens of millions, that's less of a probability than dying from a car crash. and people don't bet on dying from a car crash; otherwise we'd not be driving cars.
If we bet our lives on statistics, why should the Airline not bet the couple of hours of our time it takes for them to find us a replacement flight. hell they could give a thousand dollars to each customer and still make a profit
So you'd rather pay quite a bit more for your ticket just to save that slim chance of having your flight delayed in exchange for a compensation, is that it?
Hal Effect Came here to write those very words "the world is built around statistics". Very true, and tbh it's not a bad thing in most cases.
the last sentence "what number seperates us from being ethical than practical"you said represents the dissatisfaction i have with studying pobability......and i am dissatisfied that it ends abruptly.......
i mean..... what is difference between an event being 70% probable vsbeing 75 % probable?
I love the way you tease our brains but please explain a certain formula with the particular given situation and how it works
why do Airlines do not have Parachutes?
Cos monayyyy
Kaan Pheonix crashing planes hit the ground 100% of the time in case you were wondering
+Kaan “Gaming” Pheonix so the plane being to high would not be the problem
Zach Mondial Sometimes they hit water.
Prashant Mishra it would be impractica. however air bags and a fire proof cabin on all new planes would be better