heh i noticed it too, the casual dishonesty - which will inevitably lead to them being fired for being racist/fascist **achem**s within the decade. MEANWHILE: Real people in other channels are drive-testing ELECTRIC cars, which don't sound like a bus full of chav kids farting their entire way to school 🤷🏼♀. edit: nah that seems overly harsh, lets see what these people are *really like.*
So if the dual tire setup actually was half a second faster than original wheels then you should try with a very wide "single" wheel setup as well and see how the time on that track compares.
Most vehicles that use double wheels/tires only use them on the back axle. That would probably remove most of the steering issue, and much of the wobble. Still impracticle probably, and prone to damage, but worth a try if this was a serious idea rather than a funny video.
I imagine discussing engineering side of this solution: - Are you sure this scrub radius won't make this car undriveable in everyday commute? - What's a scrub radius?
The search for the perfect combination of tire performance and safety is truly some of the most important work being done on the internet today. Also keeps me laughing my fool head off. Please continue the great work!
For normal street cars, not large commercial vehicles or "Dually" trucks, multiple tries has been looked at, experimented with, and occasionally made custom for one-off show cars. The idea was to have tires that gave a LOT more channeling for water on the road, differing treads could be stacked for varying road conditions, and it was harder to be stranded or otherwise stopped with a flat. It is still doable but the cost of it may be more prohibitive than going with top performance tires. Still it is a good idea.
glad you guys are getting it in English, we've had 2 blokes all over the french youtube for a while now ("Vilebrequin" they're called) and I think they're even better than Top Gear ahah
We used to put double wheels on to reduce compaction on our tractors when going on the fields but that isn’t a issue on the road. Double wheels also puts huge strain on the drive shafts. Now we have given up with double wheels and just put 1 extra wide wheel on
One step further is tracks or half tracks. Like on the case row tracks and quadtracks. More surface area, and less rips up the ground a little when turning. At least on the bigger ones. Honestly I haven’t seen any difference driving them between tracks and wheels, but driving on triples hurts my soul
Do variable ratio tire. Cute the 17" tire and 20" tire in half combine these tire. The 20" outside bead 17" inside tire. Do this to all four tires. You could retain the soft ride with the 17" and use the 20" for aggressive turning. Good luck
I don't think that would work like you think it will since all 8 tire should always be in contact with the ground. It will only flex as much as the 20 in tires and really with both the 17 and 20 it would probably be stiffer since each tire is handling less weight.
Tire is a variable ratio tire. That means we are making a new design tire. Outside diameter 20" inside diameter 17". Tire size could be 225/45-20R:65-17
"Double up on tyres, double up on grip" 😆 This probably wouldn't have been such a disaster if you'd only done the rear (and if you'd done a propper twin rim setup where the tyres don't rub each other)... but putting twin tyres on the front... there's a reason this is just not done. From the camber and toe causing ungodly tire wear to the steering kinematic just being completely fudged. Fun to watch tho. Suggestion for another video: Tuners always go with harder and lower shocks to look track ready. What if you were to take this to the extreme, fitting solid shocks to that caterham? (It'll obviously be a disaster, but would be entertaining and show just how important a good suspension is, could be right up your alley)
Search youtube for MasterMilo Steel tube suspension TEST (no suspension at all). From same channel "Driving without shock absorbers" is also quality entertainment.
Tyre pressure is very important here. Suspension geometry means the wheels will often not be perpendicular to the road, especially on corners. Tyres need to be at half the pressure (10-20psi) and then adjusted (inside/outside/front/rear) to provide maximum traction.
This content is really enjoyable! maybe try like a 25 minute video with you guys also showing the workshop process of making these things. show the banter you guys are having designing and making the stuff. I dont know anything about being a content creator, you guys know what works, but i would like to see stuff like that! Keep it up Driven Media! I am really liking the vibe and banter and all the funny ideas you guys come up with!
This genuinely feels like a new, younger version of the old Top Gear, as well as the chemistry between the hosts... I adore it, please keep it up. This is amazing content, I can't believe it's free... I feel like I should be paying for each episode.
Honestly, I think you guys may be the only suitable replacement for Clarkson, Hammond, and May. Not that I want them replaced, but for when that unfortunate time comes. You guys have that perfect amount of comedic bickering.
I saw something like this about three decades ago. Guy in an Audi (maybe) was upset that he couldn’t keep up with a 2CV in sloppy weather. He mounted 8 2CV tires to his Audi with stunning results. The total load per tire was about the same. Paired skinny little tires versus wide stock tires. That experiment had much better execution. They allowed space between the paired tires so they didn’t rub under load. They allowed for axle load in comparing contact patch. The paired 2CV tires shed water better than the standard (high performance) tire though they did weigh more at each axle. The paired tires couldn’t beat stock tires under normal conditions, but outperformed in wet “real world”. Thanks for the video.
Wait, you did the single wheel testing on lightweight alloys and semi-slicks but the double-tire testing on regular tires and steelies? Wouldn't that skew the results a lot?
This reminded me of back in the 1980's when the great Aussie racing driver Peter Brock (R.I.P) did something very similar to a Holden Commodore. It handled better, had better grip, and the tyres run cooler. The suspension had been modded to handle the package. He even had it made legal in Australia. He tried marketing it, but it didn't take off. To extreme and expensive for the times. Another great entertaining video guys. Looking forward to what strange idea you come up with next.
There's so many benefits to the dual dually design. First it's trucker tested and approved but there's more. Run flat of course,no need to stop in a dangerous spot and get dirty. High speed blowouts should be stabilized. Double sidewalls should resist cornering loads better. Good rain groove should resist hydroplaning. That same groove creates a cup for flotation in sand and in snow could form it's own rail. Aluminum rims would be lighter and power steering is a must. I've been thinking about a concave center motorcycle tire. It would be less pizza cutter, have two high pressure contact patches per tire and wide spread with low rolling resistance. I'm hoping it might drift instead of wash out.
My old boss tried boosting the weight our van carried by fitting bigger tyres to the duely back end, The Tyres rubbed at the bottom when it was loaded and it dint take long to get a side wall blow out which took both tyres on the driver side out. BIG BANGS
I just found this channel yesterday. The 4th video in the series between the Subi and the Lambo was suggested. Watched the entire playlist and it was awesome. Tried this video today just to see if it was a one hit wonder with the Subi showdown and ... it wasn't! Ya'll earned a sub so its now 5.000001% subbed lol
okay, for people not understanding, I had this explained to me a while ago. Double the contact patch, half the weight pushing down on each tyre, meaning half the traction per tyre. Meaning it doesn't give more traction. Doubling the load spread like that also keeps the tyres cooler, because they aren't being worked as hard. This would be not great, but it means you can run softer tyres, and they won't over heat. This is why race tyres aren't just soft, but also really wide :)
@Leonardo Dias yes, but real world it's so minimal that you probably wouldn't notice, and any benefit would probably be outweighed by the weight. Though you are right, soz
I really like this series. Also what the heck do Caterham make their axels out of?! I thought it was game over with the F1 tires and was sure for these....
Okay doing this to test myself but I reckon they will come to conclusion the material matters more than the contact patch and the the extra weight at the hubs offset any gains in grip
The concept is sound for improved safety, just like dual wheels heavy trucks. The tyres definitely need to be thinner, too little weight over a large contact area can also reduce the road grip, especially in the wet.
Try it again, but with skinny wheels and tyres. It's the Tyre edges that grip in corners. You can solve bulge rub by using spacers between the wheels. There once was a tyre called Twintire that had a deep groove in the center to simulate two skinny tyres on one wheel.
Dually trucks and tractors(semitrucks) Have a gap between the tires to prevent rubbing. Your brake test was contending with increased rotating mass. Aluminum instead of steel would help a lot. Additionally you can safely run lower tire pressure since the load is spread out across more tires. You should try it again, but try a bit harder.
I love how Scott, while he has a healthy sense of humor about it, he also is visibly in emotional distress lmao. It's top gear all over again. A good time was had by all, me included.
During the 1980’s, a company called JJD Performance tyres sola dual tyre setup that could be made for any car. It was a single alloy wheel set up to take twin narrow tyres (as any truck driver will tell you, you need a gap between the tyres to allow for sidewall flex, otherwise the tyres will overheat and catch fire). The idea worked reasonably well by all reports, but was poorly promoted, and eventually disappeared.
Not to mentioned on this creation, your differential is not adjusted for two tire on the back even if its listed slip,remember out wills always move fast than inner wheel when making a turn so having two wheels together, would have to be configured different in the differential(e.g. the differentials gears).
Yeah, I'm in the "just stick wider tires on it" camp. And a better compound. Doesn't have to be top end Pilot Sport Cup 2 or anything like that just a decent wide summer tire. Also if you were gonna do the dually set up on all four corners alloy or aluminum wheels should have been used. Any possible performance gained by more grip was lost by adding more weight.
Such a cheap solution. I want it. And I'd do it with a (relatively) heavier car and tyres made for a light vehicle, run them at low pressure. The extra sidewall should HELP for side load. Heck, I'm having bespoke carbon rims done and fitting semi slicks. The channel between the tires can channel any water on the road surface into the ambient air.
"Engineering wise": if you would do a double tire setup on wheels for a passenger car, the weight of each rim could be reduced, as "one single normal rim" has to withstand all the forces and loads in driving conditions and therefore would be heavier than one that is only meant to be used together with a second one. The load is then spread over both. Also there needs to be sufficient space betweeen the two tires to allow for typical tire movement. In truck and tractor double wheels that is accounted for. This way the rubbing and potential tire damage throught it gets prevented.
This was tried in the 1990s to early 2000s. Basically rear motorcycle tires were used. 2 up front. 3 in the rear. Unsprung weight was an issue. Grip was not a big as s single wide tire, per wheel. But they worked great in the wet. The cost of it was the major killing blow.
I find it interesting that you're comparing the F1 slicks with doubling down on tires as if the doubling down is inferior. The interesting part being that there was an F1 car that doubled down on front tires to an incredible result, but was insanely complicated as it was to complete front suspension assemblies. Less windage than you have but much more weight and complication.
I once bought some narrow wheels with snow rally tyres on for my old Caterham with BL stud pattern and it spun the wheels in every gear. It was for one of those trails events with my local motor club. I got disqualified for not having road tyres :)
The main performance benefit of wider tires is that you can use a softer compound because the load and friction is spread out over a wider area. According to high school physics; dry friction force = coefficient of friction X normal force. Surface area isn't included in that equation because the wider the contact area is, the less the pressure in one square unit of that area. With that said if you had a soft thin tire that only had a contact patch of one square inch, that one spot has to deal with a large amount of force and the rubber starts to tear like a crayon on paper. If you had a hard wide tire there isn't enough force in one square inch to deform the rubber.
It's not surprising the braking was worse, you add width which means (for the same pressure) you're reducing contact patch length. Therefore you're reducing axial traction.
In the 1980s there was a twin tyre accessory two were fitted to the Sbarro Challenge of the 1980s. I forget the name of the twin wheel tyre. It has two valves on the outer side of the wheel.
a wider contact patch whont nessisairily mean more grip , the pressure on the patch touching the ground stays the same so the bigger the patch the less weight er square inch , you might end up slipping and sliding it does make the car wider so it should hod the wheels down a bit longer in a sharp corner one thing that would work is putting on two smaller / narrower tires (motorcycle) as the narrower tires shed water faster in the wet and prevent aquaplaning the narrower tires on the same rims stretches them so the gap between the tires become bigger and will prevent the sidewalls rubbing
Most definitely try a great quality (wider than standard) motorcycle tire, that would probably give interesting results in cornering, but I'm sure they would wear fairly quick.
f = μN f = friction μ = coefficient of friction N = normal force Notice there's nothing about surface area! Double the tires = same grip 😐 Actually, you might have gotten more grip due to the increase in weight due to the extra tires, but not because of the extra surface area. I'd also expect it to hydroplane more easily...
Personally, I'd make lug-compatible coupler nut-studs, that way you could just bolt the second wheels on. The problem with these, other than extra sidewall and no contact patch between the flats, like a dually, is that it's damn near impossible to get the geometry working correctly without a full rework, especially on a steered axle, as seen here. With the coupler lug nut-stud idea, I'd be curious to see singles in the front and triples in the rear. At the end of the day, amount of tread doesn't matter, stickiness does, though inversely more tread on a low-stick tire balances the formula. Though, at this point, which would be better, a single rear axle with triple tires, or two rear axles with a slightly wider standard tire at 1.5x-y, y being the missing tread in the gaps between the triple setup, so in actuality less than 1.5 times the width of the standard tire; at some point a double rear axle makes more sense, right, there's a reason why large trucks use this design instead of just adding more tires onto one axle, though this is also for weight distribution. Though, at the same time, in the world of jeep and truck modification, road-worthy tracks do exist. So, again, at what point do you forget the tire setups and just go for rubberized tracks. Entirely different dynamics, I know, but if someone were to go all-out on a dumb build, why not consider this as well. Imagine how ridiculous a half-track Caterham would be, or even a full-track as there have been some of those to exist; I someone did this to an H1 Hummer, possibly even a retired HMMWV (Humvee), I believe somewhere in Florida. Practical, no, but why not chase an idea that literally nobody else is pulling off.
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balance those double-rims and this is a long way from silly.
not on the k7, wtf is going on with the steering? :D
Have you guys tried F1 inters? They’re not slicks, hence technically legal 😂😂😂
Should’ve tried 2 pairs of tyres on the rear and 1 pair on the front
you guys should attempt to make your own f1 style ground effect venturi floor out of cheap abs sheets
@@importanttingwei7747 cheap abs diy style
This is peak Top Gear Golden Era vibes and I'm absolutely loving it
Only thing missing was Jeremy Clarkson shouting "POWER" 😂
@@Matty.Hill_87 And "SPEED"🤣
My God!!! Its true!!!
100%
heh i noticed it too, the casual dishonesty - which will inevitably lead to them being fired for being racist/fascist **achem**s within the decade.
MEANWHILE: Real people in other channels are drive-testing ELECTRIC cars, which don't sound like a bus full of chav kids farting their entire way to school 🤷🏼♀.
edit: nah that seems overly harsh, lets see what these people are *really like.*
try motorcycle tires on cars next? i kinda wanna see how the 7 would perform in those kinds of tires.
Yea that would be interesting!
I support that idea
It's crazy, possibly stupid and wouldn't be easy to do - I love it!
Sounds dangerous
No that is stupid, the contact patch would be tiny and the additional load will cause them to overheat.
"British lads do dumb things with cars" has an forever will be a treasured genre of entertainment
TG4LYF
Its as iconically British as a cup of tea
"Running over cup of coffees because tea is better, with 30 psi tires"
"So why not just have four tires with twice as much width though?"
"But... this one goes to Eleven"
dual tread tires actually were a thing, they had two separate contact areas on one rim but werent dualies.
There are also "double wide" tires, though mostly for larger trucks
EA Falcon Twin Tyre system had them 1988 in here Australia
The dual tread tires were originally designed for better traction in the rain.
JJD Twin Tyres was the firm who had the idea. I remember the car magazines tried hard to make it happen, but I know I never saw any in the wild.
The rat rod on " The Late Break Show " has wire wheels 4 on the rear 2 on the front...
So if the dual tire setup actually was half a second faster than original wheels then you should try with a very wide "single" wheel setup as well and see how the time on that track compares.
Yep, some wide Micky Thompsons
335 section
Or 16 tires
Most vehicles that use double wheels/tires only use them on the back axle. That would probably remove most of the steering issue, and much of the wobble. Still impracticle probably, and prone to damage, but worth a try if this was a serious idea rather than a funny video.
I imagine discussing engineering side of this solution:
- Are you sure this scrub radius won't make this car undriveable in everyday commute?
- What's a scrub radius?
Important information for all the people worried about daily driving in their Caterham Seven.
"So why not just have four tires with twice as much width though?"
"But... this one goes to Eleven"
The search for the perfect combination of tire performance and safety is truly some of the most important work being done on the internet today. Also keeps me laughing my fool head off. Please continue the great work!
For normal street cars, not large commercial vehicles or "Dually" trucks, multiple tries has been looked at, experimented with, and occasionally made custom for one-off show cars. The idea was to have tires that gave a LOT more channeling for water on the road, differing treads could be stacked for varying road conditions, and it was harder to be stranded or otherwise stopped with a flat. It is still doable but the cost of it may be more prohibitive than going with top performance tires.
Still it is a good idea.
Not just one off show cars - commercially available briefly in the 80s. JJD Twin Tyres marketed them.
@@hackdaniels7253
You learn more everyday. Thanks.
Do you guys think that dual rims no longer exist on new vehicles or something?
@@hackdaniels7253 So clearly the next step is eight F1 tyres mixed between wet and dry compounds?
I feel like it would make more sense to do the dual setup in the back with singles in the front. That should make it drivable in tight areas.
You guys have really stepped up your content lately and are quicky becoming one of my favorite channels on UA-cam!
Feels like new generation of Jeremy Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond are finally emerging
Except this is not scripted
same feeling from this episode
@@guycha0s380 I mean I know the majority of top gear was scripted but I have no doubt *some* improv happened and when it did it was funny
glad you guys are getting it in English, we've had 2 blokes all over the french youtube for a while now ("Vilebrequin" they're called) and I think they're even better than Top Gear ahah
Serious top gear vibes in the best way possible!
To improve steering, maybe you could use double rear wheel but single front so there is less tire rubbing
Umm ...the point of the video was 8 wheels ..are you blind
Really enjoy the direction this channel is going, hilarious content!
This is the glorious genius of a couple guys raised on Old TG!
We used to put double wheels on to reduce compaction on our tractors when going on the fields but that isn’t a issue on the road. Double wheels also puts huge strain on the drive shafts. Now we have given up with double wheels and just put 1 extra wide wheel on
One step further is tracks or half tracks. Like on the case row tracks and quadtracks. More surface area, and less rips up the ground a little when turning.
At least on the bigger ones. Honestly I haven’t seen any difference driving them between tracks and wheels, but driving on triples hurts my soul
I’m from the UK and we don’t have triples here. Also our tractors are below 300hp so not on tracks either.
@@farmerstephen yall dont even have flavor so im not surprised
This gives me some old Top Gear vibes
Do variable ratio tire.
Cute the 17" tire and 20" tire in half combine these tire. The 20" outside bead 17" inside tire.
Do this to all four tires.
You could retain the soft ride with the 17" and use the 20" for aggressive turning. Good luck
I don't think that would work like you think it will since all 8 tire should always be in contact with the ground. It will only flex as much as the 20 in tires and really with both the 17 and 20 it would probably be stiffer since each tire is handling less weight.
Tire is a variable ratio tire.
That means we are making a new design tire. Outside diameter 20" inside diameter 17".
Tire size could be
225/45-20R:65-17
Probably needs active ground effects and 12 tires for max grip and safety.
But sixteen would more better plus.
I love this mad content, keep it rolling fellas!
I remember watching the tutorial videos years ago. I never thought I'd see the day when Driver 61 became Garage 54.
Next on Driven Media: "We put a Caterham on our Caterham to make it faster!"
Hey man didn't expect to see u here
i see the motor vehicle world is quite small, been enjoying alot of your content recently odd lol
Next we put twin caterham engines in the the caterham
"Double up on tyres, double up on grip" 😆
This probably wouldn't have been such a disaster if you'd only done the rear (and if you'd done a propper twin rim setup where the tyres don't rub each other)... but putting twin tyres on the front... there's a reason this is just not done. From the camber and toe causing ungodly tire wear to the steering kinematic just being completely fudged.
Fun to watch tho. Suggestion for another video: Tuners always go with harder and lower shocks to look track ready. What if you were to take this to the extreme, fitting solid shocks to that caterham? (It'll obviously be a disaster, but would be entertaining and show just how important a good suspension is, could be right up your alley)
Search youtube for MasterMilo Steel tube suspension TEST (no suspension at all). From same channel "Driving without shock absorbers" is also quality entertainment.
I've just realized this is the same track Car Throttle use for their testing, Very nice.
Every time I see that Caterham, it makes me sad that they're not easily available here in the USA...
Hope you lowered the tire pressure accordingly. Better grip, smoother ride. The welding could have been more precise, I think....
And they become a semi truck too
basically a wide grooved tire with an extreme middle groove
also this video is if Top Gear was UA-camr edition
Tyre pressure is very important here. Suspension geometry means the wheels will often not be perpendicular to the road, especially on corners. Tyres need to be at half the pressure (10-20psi) and then adjusted (inside/outside/front/rear) to provide maximum traction.
I got some strong top gear vibes from this, and i loved every minute of it!
This content is really enjoyable! maybe try like a 25 minute video with you guys also showing the workshop process of making these things. show the banter you guys are having designing and making the stuff. I dont know anything about being a content creator, you guys know what works, but i would like to see stuff like that! Keep it up Driven Media! I am really liking the vibe and banter and all the funny ideas you guys come up with!
This genuinely feels like a new, younger version of the old Top Gear, as well as the chemistry between the hosts... I adore it, please keep it up. This is amazing content, I can't believe it's free... I feel like I should be paying for each episode.
Scott's face looking at the tires "I should have tried harder in f1"
Honestly, I think you guys may be the only suitable replacement for Clarkson, Hammond, and May.
Not that I want them replaced, but for when that unfortunate time comes.
You guys have that perfect amount of comedic bickering.
I saw something like this about three decades ago. Guy in an Audi (maybe) was upset that he couldn’t keep up with a 2CV in sloppy weather. He mounted 8 2CV tires to his Audi with stunning results. The total load per tire was about the same. Paired skinny little tires versus wide stock tires.
That experiment had much better execution. They allowed space between the paired tires so they didn’t rub under load. They allowed for axle load in comparing contact patch. The paired 2CV tires shed water better than the standard (high performance) tire though they did weigh more at each axle.
The paired tires couldn’t beat stock tires under normal conditions, but outperformed in wet “real world”.
Thanks for the video.
Now this series is actually better than current day topgear. Loved it. Wanna see more of this stuff.
I love how committed they are to the bit
Wait, you did the single wheel testing on lightweight alloys and semi-slicks but the double-tire testing on regular tires and steelies? Wouldn't that skew the results a lot?
Its so op with slicks they nerf it with normal tires
This reminded me of back in the 1980's when the great Aussie racing driver Peter Brock (R.I.P) did something very similar to a Holden Commodore. It handled better, had better grip, and the tyres run cooler. The suspension had been modded to handle the package. He even had it made legal in Australia. He tried marketing it, but it didn't take off. To extreme and expensive for the times.
Another great entertaining video guys. Looking forward to what strange idea you come up with next.
Not taking into account the performance or anything, but putting extremely wide wheels on the Caterham really does wonders for its look
There's so many benefits to the dual dually design.
First it's trucker tested and approved but there's more.
Run flat of course,no need to stop in a dangerous spot and get dirty.
High speed blowouts should be stabilized.
Double sidewalls should resist cornering loads better.
Good rain groove should resist hydroplaning.
That same groove creates a cup for flotation in sand and in snow could form it's own rail.
Aluminum rims would be lighter and power steering is a must.
I've been thinking about a concave center motorcycle tire. It would be less pizza cutter, have two high pressure contact patches per tire and wide spread with low rolling resistance.
I'm hoping it might drift instead of wash out.
Maybe leave it as a 6-wheeler, only increase the grip in the back?
Understeer could become a problem though...
Throw some Corvette ZR1 rear tires on the front and back. Hey rid of that extra sidewall weight, and increase the contact patch.
I love how silly this channel is, I am always looking forward to the new ways to get more grip
the interplay between the guys is really good. not quite old top gear but still great
Tyrell already proved more wheels equals more better
Back in the early car racing world, dual wasn't uncommon in the rear, because all tires were narrow...
This is slowly turning into Top Gear 2.0 and I'm all for it
1:31 "I'm all about peak of performance as you can probably tell" best line ever.
This really feels like an old Top Gear episode, nice job lads!
A few companies made an alloy wheel set called "JJD Twin Tyres" years ago. Would be good to see how they compare to your DIY versions here.
Love the content but don't be afraid of longer videos. The F1 tyre videos were disappointingly short.
Please keep making more videos like this, this is amazing.
You've nailed the Irish Gypsy vibe with it now. 🤣
My old boss tried boosting the weight our van carried by fitting bigger tyres to the duely back end, The Tyres rubbed at the bottom when it was loaded and it dint take long to get a side wall blow out which took both tyres on the driver side out. BIG BANGS
Absolutely loving this channel, keep it up guys! On a side note, I think just double rears could be pretty sick on one of those
I just found this channel yesterday. The 4th video in the series between the Subi and the Lambo was suggested. Watched the entire playlist and it was awesome. Tried this video today just to see if it was a one hit wonder with the Subi showdown and ... it wasn't! Ya'll earned a sub so its now 5.000001% subbed lol
okay, for people not understanding, I had this explained to me a while ago. Double the contact patch, half the weight pushing down on each tyre, meaning half the traction per tyre. Meaning it doesn't give more traction.
Doubling the load spread like that also keeps the tyres cooler, because they aren't being worked as hard. This would be not great, but it means you can run softer tyres, and they won't over heat. This is why race tyres aren't just soft, but also really wide :)
@Leonardo Dias yes, but real world it's so minimal that you probably wouldn't notice, and any benefit would probably be outweighed by the weight. Though you are right, soz
I really like this series. Also what the heck do Caterham make their axels out of?! I thought it was game over with the F1 tires and was sure for these....
Okay doing this to test myself but I reckon they will come to conclusion the material matters more than the contact patch and the the extra weight at the hubs offset any gains in grip
The concept is sound for improved safety, just like dual wheels heavy trucks. The tyres definitely need to be thinner, too little weight over a large contact area can also reduce the road grip, especially in the wet.
Trucks have dual wheels for reduced ground pressure - the load is spread over a greater area.
It's basically four wheel drive now. Pure genius.
Try it again, but with skinny wheels and tyres. It's the Tyre edges that grip in corners. You can solve bulge rub by using spacers between the wheels. There once was a tyre called Twintire that had a deep groove in the center to simulate two skinny tyres on one wheel.
"I am the HR department". XD Had me in absolute stitches.
Dually trucks and tractors(semitrucks) Have a gap between the tires to prevent rubbing. Your brake test was contending with increased rotating mass. Aluminum instead of steel would help a lot. Additionally you can safely run lower tire pressure since the load is spread out across more tires. You should try it again, but try a bit harder.
This gives serious old top gear vibes
I love how Scott, while he has a healthy sense of humor about it, he also is visibly in emotional distress lmao. It's top gear all over again. A good time was had by all, me included.
If Scott keeps going like this, he'll turn into Jeremy. 😂
crazy how much Scott hated those tyres but then put them on his KA when offroading!
During the 1980’s, a company called JJD Performance tyres sola dual tyre setup that could be made for any car.
It was a single alloy wheel set up to take twin narrow tyres (as any truck driver will tell you, you need a gap between the tyres to allow for sidewall flex, otherwise the tyres will overheat and catch fire).
The idea worked reasonably well by all reports, but was poorly promoted, and eventually disappeared.
You're a far more entertaining "upper sprocket" than the other ones - from my perspective :)
i love how scott is just the stig but with a personality
Great experiment, have you thought about trying tyres with different profiles on the inner and outer front tyres?
Not to mentioned on this creation, your differential is not adjusted for two tire on the back even if its listed slip,remember out wills always move fast than inner wheel when making a turn so having two wheels together, would have to be configured different in the differential(e.g. the differentials gears).
4x4 tyres to turn the Caterham into an off road monster!
love the humor these two have. Feels like humor from top gear before. 1:15
Yeah, I'm in the "just stick wider tires on it" camp. And a better compound. Doesn't have to be top end Pilot Sport Cup 2 or anything like that just a decent wide summer tire. Also if you were gonna do the dually set up on all four corners alloy or aluminum wheels should have been used. Any possible performance gained by more grip was lost by adding more weight.
Such a cheap solution. I want it.
And I'd do it with a (relatively) heavier car and tyres made for a light vehicle, run them at low pressure.
The extra sidewall should HELP for side load.
Heck, I'm having bespoke carbon rims done and fitting semi slicks. The channel between the tires can channel any water on the road surface into the ambient air.
"Engineering wise": if you would do a double tire setup on wheels for a passenger car, the weight of each rim could be reduced, as "one single normal rim" has to withstand all the forces and loads in driving conditions and therefore would be heavier than one that is only meant to be used together with a second one. The load is then spread over both.
Also there needs to be sufficient space betweeen the two tires to allow for typical tire movement. In truck and tractor double wheels that is accounted for. This way the rubbing and potential tire damage throught it gets prevented.
The only thing missing is Jeremy Clarkson shouting: "Poweeerr, & Speeeed" 🤣🤣 brilliant wallah
Oh the things this poor Caterham has been through
This was tried in the 1990s to early 2000s. Basically rear motorcycle tires were used. 2 up front. 3 in the rear. Unsprung weight was an issue. Grip was not a big as s single wide tire, per wheel. But they worked great in the wet. The cost of it was the major killing blow.
I find it interesting that you're comparing the F1 slicks with doubling down on tires as if the doubling down is inferior. The interesting part being that there was an F1 car that doubled down on front tires to an incredible result, but was insanely complicated as it was to complete front suspension assemblies. Less windage than you have but much more weight and complication.
I once bought some narrow wheels with snow rally tyres on for my old Caterham with BL stud pattern and it spun the wheels in every gear.
It was for one of those trails events with my local motor club. I got disqualified for not having road tyres :)
The main performance benefit of wider tires is that you can use a softer compound because the load and friction is spread out over a wider area. According to high school physics; dry friction force = coefficient of friction X normal force. Surface area isn't included in that equation because the wider the contact area is, the less the pressure in one square unit of that area. With that said if you had a soft thin tire that only had a contact patch of one square inch, that one spot has to deal with a large amount of force and the rubber starts to tear like a crayon on paper. If you had a hard wide tire there isn't enough force in one square inch to deform the rubber.
It's not surprising the braking was worse, you add width which means (for the same pressure) you're reducing contact patch length. Therefore you're reducing axial traction.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't expect this pairing to become a great comedy duo. Pleasant surprised.
The Top Gear influence on these UA-cam channels is so delightful to watch.
In the 1980s there was a twin tyre accessory two were fitted to the Sbarro Challenge of the 1980s. I forget the name of the twin wheel tyre. It has two valves on the outer side of the wheel.
a wider contact patch whont nessisairily mean more grip , the pressure on the patch touching the ground stays the same so the bigger the patch the less weight er square inch , you might end up slipping and sliding
it does make the car wider so it should hod the wheels down a bit longer in a sharp corner
one thing that would work is putting on two smaller / narrower tires (motorcycle) as the narrower tires shed water faster in the wet and prevent aquaplaning the narrower tires on the same rims stretches them so the gap between the tires become bigger and will prevent the sidewalls rubbing
Very impressive, now add an extra axle
Most definitely try a great quality (wider than standard) motorcycle tire, that would probably give interesting results in cornering, but I'm sure they would wear fairly quick.
PLS MAKE THIS INTO LIKE A SERIES OR SHOW
These videos are better than modern topgear or the grand tour. Absolutely fantastic
You do for us what we talk about with petrolheads friends (when drunk). So much fun, thank you!
I think you'd be fine in the US. We have much wider roads. I have a Chevy 3500 with rear dual wheels and I do just fine.
Looks like the weather changed a bit between "tests"... Which normally can have quite an impact.
How about conical wheels to work against the loss of contact patch when the suspension is pushed further in?
I know that they are rc drift cars with wheels like that.
f = μN
f = friction
μ = coefficient of friction
N = normal force
Notice there's nothing about surface area! Double the tires = same grip 😐
Actually, you might have gotten more grip due to the increase in weight due to the extra tires, but not because of the extra surface area. I'd also expect it to hydroplane more easily...
Personally, I'd make lug-compatible coupler nut-studs, that way you could just bolt the second wheels on. The problem with these, other than extra sidewall and no contact patch between the flats, like a dually, is that it's damn near impossible to get the geometry working correctly without a full rework, especially on a steered axle, as seen here. With the coupler lug nut-stud idea, I'd be curious to see singles in the front and triples in the rear.
At the end of the day, amount of tread doesn't matter, stickiness does, though inversely more tread on a low-stick tire balances the formula. Though, at this point, which would be better, a single rear axle with triple tires, or two rear axles with a slightly wider standard tire at 1.5x-y, y being the missing tread in the gaps between the triple setup, so in actuality less than 1.5 times the width of the standard tire; at some point a double rear axle makes more sense, right, there's a reason why large trucks use this design instead of just adding more tires onto one axle, though this is also for weight distribution.
Though, at the same time, in the world of jeep and truck modification, road-worthy tracks do exist. So, again, at what point do you forget the tire setups and just go for rubberized tracks. Entirely different dynamics, I know, but if someone were to go all-out on a dumb build, why not consider this as well. Imagine how ridiculous a half-track Caterham would be, or even a full-track as there have been some of those to exist; I someone did this to an H1 Hummer, possibly even a retired HMMWV (Humvee), I believe somewhere in Florida. Practical, no, but why not chase an idea that literally nobody else is pulling off.
Loving these videos boys. Yall should call the series like... Knob Gear: Oops All Ornagutans.