turns per armature. It's the count of motor wire on the armature. Reference my other video about chaoli vs. matrix armature. Neo can refers to neodymium magnets on the motor and end bell is the bottom part of the motor.
yes on windings, chaoli arms are cheap and super high in tpa (again reference other video), and I use the endbell that fits the can I'm using. Usually just whatever was stock. No reason to replace really.
free spin the motor you made and a properly working one to make sure if it's turning in the wrong direction or not. If that doesn't work you could have a problem with either brush contact or possibly your armature has shed a winding.
I personally would keep both the same. Use the King arms motor, shortstroke the sector 3 teeth, and lipo should get you around that rof if you shim everything well.
Im sorry for all the questions, but i also have an ics turbo 3000 motor, should i use that instead of the king arms one or should i keep that one as a good backup if any of my other motors fail?
Again, sorry for all the questions, but what piston would u recomend? I was opting for an shs 7 metal teeth piston and swiss cheesing it, and or do u think i should go for full metal rack piston?
ideally you want some nice 16g wiring to make sure you're giving your system enough power but low resistance wiring isn't what makes the gun "lipo ready". Just make sure all of your bases are covered like shimming and aoe.
Great video, thanks for the info but I am having trouble finding the parts. If you don't mind telling we where I can find these parts that would help a lot. I am pulling a Prometheus m170 with a JG blue and its having a hard time. I only use simi for this gun. Thanks
I'm in the process of making one of these motors (matrix 3000 can) and would like to know if I used it with 13:1 gears, will it give more rps than a Lonex A1?
Hi. I have a question. When you put back the end bell those 2 metal piece that bend inward to hold the end bell in place is that a must? Or i can just put in the end bell without bending those 2 metal tab.
I have tried 3 different( 1 echo one, 2 chaoli branded) chaoli armatures in a Lonex A1 can, and my results have been very poor. I have a 40 rps SSG build running perfectly on another Lonex A1, but the trigger response isn't quite there, and I usually just use semi only, would it be worth my money to just get a higher TPA arm off of Brill and a better neo can? Possibly like a Matrix 3000 mentioned in the video and a 22 tpa arm. Sorry for the wall of text.
the echo 1 and chaoli stuff didnt have good trigger response? doesn't sound right... You could try another can but your trigger response should be the only thing that works really well with that combo.
Yeah the motor wound up like a ferrous motor would, I will try a different battery, maybe that was the problem. The Stock A1 has no motor wind up just a little bit of a laggy trigger. Its a V3 gearbox and I have an active breaking mosfet. Thanks for the help.
I finally fixed my problem, I plugged in my 11.1, cleaned and re-shimmed the armature in the can so the brushes made full contact, now I have an amazing instant trigger response. In my frustration I also flat-hopped my gun so its quite a beast now. Thanks for your help!
I was wondering, i have a king arms motor (higher rof) and im using it as my main motor, but its magnets are pretty weak, and i have an agm motor (slower rof), and i use that as my back up motor, and its magnets are pretty strong, so do u think i should take the can of the agm and put that on my king arms motor to increase the torque? Also, im trying to make my gun shoot 30bps with a big 11.1 lipo with around 350-370fps, any suggestions on how to do that without having to change the gear set? I
What other armatures do you recommend for a frankentorque build? Since I have an SHS HT motor, I'm considering on either putting a G&G gray so would that work?
Thank You For The Feedback,I'm Thinking at This Point i'll Go With The Gen2 Cyclone 14's With Either an A2 OR ZCI HT as My Baseline? Now To Make That Call? Looking For Reliable 50+ Rps
High count of windings, around 22. combine this with Neodymium magnets and you have hell-alot of torque. If you want speed, swap the windings to around 10-15 rounds.
What is TPA? Is the choali armature good? I find that odd since thy are found in every crap clone lol. I have a Jg red which I bought but never used didn't want it in that m4 would it be better then a frankentorque motor made from a matrix can and choali armature? Thanks
reference my video about 10:1 gears and frankentorques. They have their place but are not the end all motor. TPA is chaoli motors is like 32 or something like that. I forget exactly. The JG red is a more balanced motor and will most likely give you better rof results.
Sorry to ask, but I have a few questions. I know that the can of the chaoli is usually gray but what color is the endbell and the motor tower usually? Also, what type of pinion do they use D or O, I see in this video it has an O-type but I think I have seen it with a D-type as well. On another note, would a Classic Army high torque armature work as well? It appears to have a rather high TPA based on what I can tell. I am talking about the CA with the red sticker and red endbell. If you can answer any of these, thank you, and thank you for making informative tech videos.
chaolis are usually a black endbell i think. They come in both D and O but O is easier to find I think. A CA high torque arm is actually a little big more torque than the chaoli but they're even slower.
valleyriverarms Thanks, I guess that I might use my CA armature then, if it is for sure the red one that has that much torque because I do not want to go looking for a Chaoli. I'm not worried too much about how slow it is (nor should anyone that uses a frankentorque) so the extra TPA and efficiency may help me a bit, and make the motor last longer on a 14.8v, but I still expect to have to clean it a lot as I hear the brushes get destroyed by that kind of voltage.
Do you think the motor will hold up ok though since it is so slow it'll produce much less heat than say even a JG blue. I understand that the brushes will wear no matter what though and I might replace them with some copper ones or something rather than the typical graphite stuff.
What do you use to keep the pinion I'm place without it coming of the shaft when running or adjusting motor height. for D Type more likely and O Type pinions
So basically Frankentorque is a mix between torque motor and high speed motor? I have the G&P m120 high speed motor now, what other motor I need to build FT motor?
More of a high-torque motor on steroids. You sacrifice speed for even more torque - the higher the TPA, the higher the torque and the lower the speed. The key is the neodymium magnet can, which typically comes with motors sold as high-torque motors, and a cheaper motor with a high TPA (turns per armature) count.
Do you think I could have a good result using a stock A&K armature and a G&P M180 can? I really want a great semi response (already have it precocked) and a slow full auto ROF
I built a frankentorque motor using a jg blue can and a chaoli 32 TPA armature. I also had that same armature in a lonex spec can and whenever I twist the pinion gear it, its kinda easy to turn and doesn't seem that torquey. I know that twisting the pinion gear isn't a scientific way to judge torque but this seems odd. Any suggestions or help?
It's for any application that needs massive amounts of torque. DSGs, high power springs etc. It is not an end all motor though. Just because you can make one doesn't always mean you should use it. I will be making a video explaining this.
Where u get cheap matrix 3k motors? Place I usually buy matrix crap from sells them for like 45 bucks. Unless thats considered cheap? If u only trying to get magnets from the 3k is there anyway to just buy the magnets? Neos are not that expensive. I buy they all the time for miniatures but the shape here is important.
Yeah I mean 45 is the normal retail price. I don't know where you would buy the magnets shaped like this just by themselves. Boneyard sales are the best place to find them tbh.
www.rare-earth-magnets.com/arc-magnets Like these are super close to the shape that are in the motors but again they have to be the RIGHT shape not close to the shape. U by anychance know the specs of the shapes found in the motor?
DrDuck7700 Firestorm Systems (I think that's what their name is/was) in the UK used to sell really strong neo-magnets made specially for AEG motors. I don't think they do anymore but not too sure.
you can but just avoid ics 3000 cans. I find that matrix motor cans work the best but people make them out of anything. I usually use the brushes that come with the can but assuming the chaoli ones fit, those should be a better fit to the armature.
Great Video,Ok Racking My Brain Getting as Much Info as I Can For My First DSG Build,I Have an Almost New Shs HT,2 chaoli motors,So That Can,Chaoli Armature With an Epoxied Siegetek Pinion.Sound efficient For Either The 10:44 or 14:09 Sets? tu
o pinions are press fitted on the shaft and D dype pinions have a slot in the O. You look down at your motor and see if the motor shaft is circular or if you see the slot there. TPA is turns per armature.
I thought JG blues were 28tpa. also, use a riot pinion on that o-type =D, just make sure you lube it first. (heh) no seriously, I almost esploded my pinion puller trying to get that thing on.
+Savages Speedsoft Earbuds, headsets, speakers... They're neodinum I'm pretty sure and used in pretty much anything that has magnets so they should be cheap.
turns per armature. It's the count of motor wire on the armature. Reference my other video about chaoli vs. matrix armature. Neo can refers to neodymium magnets on the motor and end bell is the bottom part of the motor.
yes on windings, chaoli arms are cheap and super high in tpa (again reference other video), and I use the endbell that fits the can I'm using. Usually just whatever was stock. No reason to replace really.
free spin the motor you made and a properly working one to make sure if it's turning in the wrong direction or not. If that doesn't work you could have a problem with either brush contact or possibly your armature has shed a winding.
I personally would keep both the same. Use the King arms motor, shortstroke the sector 3 teeth, and lipo should get you around that rof if you shim everything well.
Im sorry for all the questions, but i also have an ics turbo 3000 motor, should i use that instead of the king arms one or should i keep that one as a good backup if any of my other motors fail?
Again, sorry for all the questions, but what piston would u recomend? I was opting for an shs 7 metal teeth piston and swiss cheesing it, and or do u think i should go for full metal rack piston?
So what's the point of the frankentq? Just to pull a heavy spring, or is it good for a dual sector set up?
Thanks.
Besides a mosfet. What else may i need to have my gun withstand the big lipo? Should i get low resistance wiring?
ideally you want some nice 16g wiring to make sure you're giving your system enough power but low resistance wiring isn't what makes the gun "lipo ready". Just make sure all of your bases are covered like shimming and aoe.
Great video, thanks for the info but I am having trouble finding the parts. If you don't mind telling we where I can find these parts that would help a lot. I am pulling a Prometheus m170 with a JG blue and its having a hard time. I only use simi for this gun. Thanks
I'm in the process of making one of these motors (matrix 3000 can) and would like to know if I used it with 13:1 gears, will it give more rps than a Lonex A1?
more windings = more torque less rpm?
whats special about the chaoli armature you use?
which endbell do you use?
Hi. I have a question. When you put back the end bell those 2 metal piece that bend inward to hold the end bell in place is that a must? Or i can just put in the end bell without bending those 2 metal tab.
ehhhhh I would bend them back in but sometimes they snap. if you dont bend them back in the endbell might come off though
I have tried 3 different( 1 echo one, 2 chaoli branded) chaoli armatures in a Lonex A1 can, and my results have been very poor. I have a 40 rps SSG build running perfectly on another Lonex A1, but the trigger response isn't quite there, and I usually just use semi only, would it be worth my money to just get a higher TPA arm off of Brill and a better neo can? Possibly like a Matrix 3000 mentioned in the video and a 22 tpa arm. Sorry for the wall of text.
the echo 1 and chaoli stuff didnt have good trigger response? doesn't sound right... You could try another can but your trigger response should be the only thing that works really well with that combo.
Yeah the motor wound up like a ferrous motor would, I will try a different battery, maybe that was the problem. The Stock A1 has no motor wind up just a little bit of a laggy trigger. Its a V3 gearbox and I have an active breaking mosfet. Thanks for the help.
Weird situation. Possibly the brushes need to be worn into the shape of the armature?
I finally fixed my problem, I plugged in my 11.1, cleaned and re-shimmed the armature in the can so the brushes made full contact, now I have an amazing instant trigger response. In my frustration I also flat-hopped my gun so its quite a beast now. Thanks for your help!
yeh iv researched tpa and windings now
can i use any neo magnet can then?
do i use the brushes that came with the choali or the can?
Im kinda on a budget, anything suggestions for a place to get good internals for cheaper?
I was wondering, i have a king arms motor (higher rof) and im using it as my main motor, but its magnets are pretty weak, and i have an agm motor (slower rof), and i use that as my back up motor, and its magnets are pretty strong, so do u think i should take the can of the agm and put that on my king arms motor to increase the torque? Also, im trying to make my gun shoot 30bps with a big 11.1 lipo with around 350-370fps, any suggestions on how to do that without having to change the gear set? I
Did you try use armature with small TPA (like 10 - 12) to build high speed motor?
it can be done but I have no use for high speed motors.
What other armatures do you recommend for a frankentorque build? Since I have an SHS HT motor, I'm considering on either putting a G&G gray so would that work?
***** eh. Just take apart spare motors and see which one has more winds
+valleyriverarms How hard should it be to turn by hand?
Thank You For The Feedback,I'm Thinking at This Point i'll Go With The Gen2 Cyclone 14's With Either an A2 OR ZCI HT as My Baseline? Now To Make That Call? Looking For Reliable 50+ Rps
it'll hit 50 on the a2. I have a stubby built that was like that.
Hi and thanks. Can you tell me the awg of the magnet wire?
High count of windings, around 22. combine this with Neodymium magnets and you have hell-alot of torque. If you want speed, swap the windings to around 10-15 rounds.
Hey, First off I love your vids. They are very informative and helpful. Secondly is there any chance you know the tpa on an eg1000?
Thanks, you helped me out a lot!
What is TPA? Is the choali armature good? I find that odd since thy are found in every crap clone lol. I have a Jg red which I bought but never used didn't want it in that m4 would it be better then a frankentorque motor made from a matrix can and choali armature? Thanks
reference my video about 10:1 gears and frankentorques. They have their place but are not the end all motor. TPA is chaoli motors is like 32 or something like that. I forget exactly. The JG red is a more balanced motor and will most likely give you better rof results.
Sorry to ask, but I have a few questions. I know that the can of the chaoli is usually gray but what color is the endbell and the motor tower usually? Also, what type of pinion do they use D or O, I see in this video it has an O-type but I think I have seen it with a D-type as well. On another note, would a Classic Army high torque armature work as well? It appears to have a rather high TPA based on what I can tell. I am talking about the CA with the red sticker and red endbell. If you can answer any of these, thank you, and thank you for making informative tech videos.
chaolis are usually a black endbell i think. They come in both D and O but O is easier to find I think. A CA high torque arm is actually a little big more torque than the chaoli but they're even slower.
valleyriverarms Thanks, I guess that I might use my CA armature then, if it is for sure the red one that has that much torque because I do not want to go looking for a Chaoli. I'm not worried too much about how slow it is (nor should anyone that uses a frankentorque) so the extra TPA and efficiency may help me a bit, and make the motor last longer on a 14.8v, but I still expect to have to clean it a lot as I hear the brushes get destroyed by that kind of voltage.
you'll wear through them faster I expect
Do you think the motor will hold up ok though since it is so slow it'll produce much less heat than say even a JG blue. I understand that the brushes will wear no matter what though and I might replace them with some copper ones or something rather than the typical graphite stuff.
I think the motor should be fine as long as everything else is assembled correctly.
I did a ifrit 25k with a shs hd seems to be a torque monster
What do you use to keep the pinion I'm place without it coming of the shaft when running or adjusting motor height. for D Type more likely and O Type pinions
loctite and there's usually a set screw on D type pinions as well.
So basically Frankentorque is a mix between torque motor and high speed motor? I have the G&P m120 high speed motor now, what other motor I need to build FT motor?
More of a high-torque motor on steroids. You sacrifice speed for even more torque - the higher the TPA, the higher the torque and the lower the speed. The key is the neodymium magnet can, which typically comes with motors sold as high-torque motors, and a cheaper motor with a high TPA (turns per armature) count.
Do you think I could have a good result using a stock A&K armature and a G&P M180 can? I really want a great semi response (already have it precocked) and a slow full auto ROF
It would probably be pretty torquey. The g&p m180 should already be pretty zippy though so i don't think an armature swap is really necessary.
Yeah, I fell it's way too fast though, thus wanted to trade some speed for even more torque
for the amount of trouble it'll be you might as well just buy a torquier motor and have both.
Thanks, you really helped me out
What do you guys use to take off the pinion gear? ZCI Pinion Puller?
yeah or similar
I built a frankentorque motor using a jg blue can and a chaoli 32 TPA armature. I also had that same armature in a lonex spec can and whenever I twist the pinion gear it, its kinda easy to turn and doesn't seem that torquey. I know that twisting the pinion gear isn't a scientific way to judge torque but this seems odd. Any suggestions or help?
lonex magnets aren't that strong. probably why.
valleyriverarms but now I have jg blue magnets and that still isn't doing the trick. :(
Depending on the batch the magnets might be on the weaker side. Idk. I can only say that my favorite is the matrix magnets
valleyriverarms ok thanks for responding. great vid
Quesion How can you tell the difference between a neodymium and a ferrous magnet motor, Just wondering
neo magnets are silver.
valleyriverarms
Thank you so much
What camera do you use? Much respect on the channel I subbed
thanks :D I think the eg1000 is something like 20-22. Basically like a jg blue.
Always liked the name.
Yo is there a way to change pinion from o to d type hit me up I’m looking around thanks
a grinder and a prayer
It's for any application that needs massive amounts of torque. DSGs, high power springs etc. It is not an end all motor though. Just because you can make one doesn't always mean you should use it. I will be making a video explaining this.
Where u get cheap matrix 3k motors? Place I usually buy matrix crap from sells them for like 45 bucks. Unless thats considered cheap?
If u only trying to get magnets from the 3k is there anyway to just buy the magnets? Neos are not that expensive. I buy they all the time for miniatures but the shape here is important.
Yeah I mean 45 is the normal retail price. I don't know where you would buy the magnets shaped like this just by themselves. Boneyard sales are the best place to find them tbh.
www.rare-earth-magnets.com/arc-magnets
Like these are super close to the shape that are in the motors but again they have to be the RIGHT shape not close to the shape. U by anychance know the specs of the shapes found in the motor?
DrDuck7700
Firestorm Systems (I think that's what their name is/was) in the UK used to sell really strong neo-magnets made specially for AEG motors. I don't think they do anymore but not too sure.
can you use chaoli arm, with a lonex a2 can? awesome vid btw
yeup and thanks
jg blue is like 22 tpa. I would use a riot if I had more money floating around but I already have chaoli pinions and they work just fine so w/e
you can but just avoid ics 3000 cans. I find that matrix motor cans work the best but people make them out of anything. I usually use the brushes that come with the can but assuming the chaoli ones fit, those should be a better fit to the armature.
no. These things are slow as balls but they have a lot of torque. on 13:1's, 11.1 and m120 I was only getting 20 rps.
valleyriverarms are TerminusX motors good? I've heard very mixed feelings about them.
they're trash. The maker was kind of a scumbag too.
i just made 1 using a jg blue can with the end bell armature and brushes from the chaoli and it spins
Thoughts on Classic Army motors?
+NoMedic stock? They're slow and lacking neo magnets but torquey winds.
Great Video,Ok Racking My Brain Getting as Much Info as I Can For My First DSG Build,I Have an Almost New Shs HT,2 chaoli motors,So That Can,Chaoli Armature With an Epoxied Siegetek Pinion.Sound efficient For Either The 10:44 or 14:09 Sets? tu
Well, if you're making a frankentorque go with 10:44 because your rof will be really slow on 14:09
Frankentorque + 10:44=___Rof(Estimate)
mid 20s?
cool stuff
How are you supposed to shim the motor?
Unstable Gaming shims at the bottom of the amature and between the magnets and the can are two ways of shimming the motor.
why not using the grey motor case, it has air cooling holes,isnt it better ???just take 2 neo-mag and switch the case
because I didnt want to move the magnets from case to case
Noob questions!
First of all, whats the differances between the pinions and how do you know which motor need what type?
And what is TPA?
o pinions are press fitted on the shaft and D dype pinions have a slot in the O. You look down at your motor and see if the motor shaft is circular or if you see the slot there.
TPA is turns per armature.
valleyriverarms Ah, Thank you! What would you say the avarage TPA is?
depends on the maker. most stock guns are high torque with like 20ish tpa. But 16 tpa is balanced between torque and speed.
I thought JG blues were 28tpa.
also, use a riot pinion on that o-type =D, just make sure you lube it first. (heh) no seriously, I almost esploded my pinion puller trying to get that thing on.
Where can you get neo magnets?
+Savages Speedsoft Earbuds, headsets, speakers... They're neodinum I'm pretty sure and used in pretty much anything that has magnets so they should be cheap.
neo can
chinese armature and end bell?
learned a lot thanks
no problem!
no problem, good luck with that.
whats tpa?
uhhh use it as a backup. Magnets are super thin in those motors.
What would be the rps on a motor like this?
depends on a lot of factors. but slow as hell.
valleyriverarms would you sell one that you made
dont really have any for sale at the moment.
ok thank you
Thanks
+valleyriverarms can you do me a favor and make a video on this?
Sweet
can you wind your own armature
+Dr_joe_smo 24 you can, I never got into that but you can.
www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f10/tutorial-how-rewind-motor-99831/
lonex red or blue and swiss cheese the hell out of it.
20 I think? Hamsterarms knows I think.
yeah but I wouldnt
hivemind and clandestine
Oh