Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Sketchup First, then Revit or Archicad?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- If you want me to create your portfolio and resume for you (or critique what you already have) SO THAT YOU DON’T MISS OUT ON THAT NEXT GREAT JOB OPPORTUNITY, click this link and set up a call with me: www.designlabre...
--
Is it better to start with SketchUp for conceptual forms and rough modeling and then move to Revit or ArchiCAD for the later stages of architectural design?
There are ideas you think OF and ideas you think WITH. The question is really about how well you think WITH the program. If you think clearly WITH Revit or ArchiCAD then you can design in those programs from the start. But it may be easier and/or faster to model your thoughts in SketchUp if that's what you're more comfortable with. Drawing things by hand will probably be the fastest for developing your initial concept ideas if you are at all good at it.
(As a student, it's quite possible that you are not particularly good at thinking WITH... anything...yet, lol. If that's where you are, you have to practice it all. But first, start practicing with sketching and drawing by hand right now. Try sketching and digital modeling at the same time, but make sure you practice drawing now, so you will develop better skills for later.)
Drew Paul Bell (of www.DrewPaulBel...)
"How quickly can you think with it". Gotta remember that, thanks a lot, this really open my eyes about which software to use.
true story -» very pertinent choice of words ;) , in deed.
That insight about how well you generate ideas with the chosen medium or particular software is gold. As an UX designer I foudn it weird not feeling as comfortable as others designing on a Moleskin or working with low res sketches on a board, preferring instead to work directly on Omnigraffle to prepare a more structured blueprint for the presentation deck. At a certain level I always knew this was the case but it's how you managed to put it into words that made me more self-aware. Just for this I had to subscribe.
The "screen limitation" also applies to a drafters vision on paper; Hence, blowouts was developed long before CAD. That aside, I find your points agreeable. I have a respectable drawing prowess but I have spent enough time on SU that I could stick to it for the entirety of my creative process right up to documentation.
Good words about process. My process at work: hand sketches- sketchup- more hand sketches- more sketchup- archicad- more hand sketches- archicad- back to sketchup- archicad- more hand sketches- archicad- archicad-archicad- lumion rendering- back to archicad- lumion rendering- middle of the night idea to improve- more hand sketches- sketchup- archicad- lumion- client- more hand sketches- archicad- lumion- DONE. Then change 1/2 when the client comments come back. *sigh
+JamesHughesLandscaping yeah, sounds familiar lol
That's my normal process... :)
I was looking for tutorial about experienced architects workflow from concept to finished project in Archicad. I was thinking that there is an easy way. Looks like it does not exist )
The way it worked at my first office was we would print out the existing conditions whether that was a land survey or a survey of an existing house to be renovated at a large scale (we usually taped together 11x17s and it’d fill up most of our conference table) then the principal would draw on trash paper and his sketchbook on and off for a few days working out the plan and probably some elevations and some details. Once he had it pretty well worked out, he’d give someone the drawing and we’d model it in Archicad. We’d discover some problem areas and improve the design together. Then we just kept trying ideas from there for a few weeks until he felt comfortable with it and then we’d call in the client. From there you respond to client feedback and make some changes. During DD and CD we would find details that needed to be worked out and make relatively small changes to make sure the details were elegant.
Why don't you model with the Morph instead of using sktechup? I think the morph can do everything..
I think from my point of view that Archicad is really easy to use when you doing 3D drawings Architectural/Structural and even Details.
Can I get your email address. I have queries about archicad.
Great tips. I always do design on paper and then process on computer to make it works and built. One thing is really bordering me a lot these days is the interns spent days on sketchup for "designing" because their can't picture the scale in their mind. Technology helps us a lot on the drawing production, but it is taking away the new blood thinking at the same time. Sometimes the old fashion is the best way, it is just me.
Interesting. What do you mean when you say it’s “taking away the new blood thinking?”
The students' creativity. Some of them too rely on the technology very much, doesn't have the sense of scale, can't sketch anymore and do not think outside the box. Like your video, the screen has limited the vision, at the same time, it has limited the thinking too (just my opinions).
Some very wise words. Once I have an idea sketched out by hand I move straight to Vectorwork's concept modelling before moving to the BIM elements of Vectorworks in a 'proof of concept' way. All wall, floor and roof constructions etc can then be changed very quickly (much quicker than by hand or, from my 35 years experience, in any AutoDesk product). Yes, the 'front-end' takes a bit longer but the workflow overall is only about 80% of the time. It is partially the longer time spent on the actually basics of any building design that makes for a better end result. I have found that the 'buildability' can be confirmed and budget costed MUCH earlier using Vectorworks or ArchiCad than by using a drawing board or Sketchup or Revit.
True 3d is why Sketchup is ideal to start, PlusSpec is BIM inside of Sketchup there are several versions for Professionals and DIYers. Having the freedom of Sketchup and the parametric power of Revit or ArchiCad all inside Sketchup is the answer to your users' questions Drew.
Thats what vectorworks does. It has build in siemens parasolid 3d modeler as well as BIM. It is sketchup + revit.
I was not expecting the response to be like that. I've always heard frustrating things about Sketchup as if it is useless. This is good tho!! I feel a lot more comfortable starting out with Sketchup now.
HELLO I AM AN ARCHICAD USER; FOR WORK REASONS AVECES I USE REVIT AND SKP; IN FINAL THE BEST TOOL TO WORK DESIGN AND PRESENT PROJECTS IS ARCHICAD.
GREETINGS FROM MEXICO
THANK YOU
True about being limited to one screen, but if you invest in a wide monitor you can view 3 views at once and that speeds up your productivity
Yeah. But unless the screen is literally 24x36 or 36x48 I think it’s always going to be a minor annoyance so I personally like having a few hard copy check sets during the design process. Personally I like reviewing hard copies more than PDFs when it comes to drawing sets even if it’s a half-sized set because it allows me to move between pages more fluidly and see different things at once. It helps me spot errors and connect dots that otherwise I may miss if I’m scrolling down a pdf window one page at a time. But to each his own. :)
Thanks so much for the video. I use ArchiCAD then twinmotion rendering . I think many interior decorators use Sketchup just for the " look" more on the design of the surface. interior designer and architects use BIM systems.
Archicad have internal tools to easily model like you were in sketchup. This tool is called Form and it has the main concepts to model similar to sketchup.
I love archicad but I hate the morph tool and the railing tool! Really heavy stuff😲
I feel that it is all in how comfortable someone is with a program. If someone can do the same amount of work that I can in Revit as in Autocad, Sketchup, or archicad then awesome. I just feel that using sketchup for mass modeling when you have Revit is wasting time. This is due to the massing capabilities of Revit. Yes you have to learn how to use the massing in it but you can create buildings from the massings in Revit with the details that revit gives you. I have no experience in ArchiCAD so I cannot say much on that one in comparison.
Exactly! If you learn enough about the program, you can use it to design something that you couldn't have done by hand.
I have experience in both Revit and ArchiCAD and I can tell you, for concepts to building workflow, ArchiCAD is waaay better at it. It's far much easier to sketch and model basic ideas and transform them into models
The key to using Sketchup first is to use a Plugin that automates the input of the IFC classification, and this way the Sketchup export is usable and searchable in ArchiCAD or Revit. Sure you can import "dumb" Sketchup geometry yet you will work harder to get it as native content. The Plugin I use is called PlusSpec, basically it automates layer creation and IFC attribution. This does improve my workflow, have you tried it Drew?
Nice! No, I haven't used Sketchup much. I have only payed around with it. We use ArchiCAD at my office from start to finish. It's nice because we can model in 3D and create the drawings. I think some people are probably good enough at sketchup to produce construction drawings with it. But to me, it doesn't seem like its good for doing CD's. Do you use it to create the drawings, or just for 3D modeling?
First! Hey Drew.. so thanks to your videos I've started learning ArchiCad and mostly set my attention on that program and so far it's been a lot better than AutoCad but like you said, I got a ton to learn and practice to be able to make something faster so as always thanks for the info and maybe.. you can make some tutorial videos? It would be great to see how you make renders and draw(on paper too) to learn new techniques. I feel like I'm gonna start to spend a lot more time on screen and I don't want to lose those in moment sketch dynamics
In my opinion, 3D modelling software comes in two basic kinds: Solids and surfaces. Which Sketchup is a surface modeller.
What about Vectorworks?
Sketchup has a lot of problems, dealing with polygons etc, but when one say "I don't find Sketchup vary intuitive", I know he is not competent to talk about the subject.
I still think on paper, ( I spent my first 10 years working on the board) I often sketch a concept on butter paper or detail paper, then scan in at a set dpi, and trace over in Archicad. What you said about having to get too specific too early can be correct however if you use display options properly, you can show the project in sketch format and not distract by getting bogged down with the finer details. Then decisions can be made and working drawings produced just by changing view settings. If you have an intelligent template, all the stages of a project can have their own views and the process becomes optimised.
Very true. The white model can help keep it simple in the beginning.
I just wanted to point out something. With respect to zooming in and out, you can solve that problem by having multiple monitors. I haven't seen it in real life but if you are an architect using advanced software like Revit, you should be working on at least 2 monitors (or 3 monitors ideally).
Having multiple monitors helps a lot. Fortunately, the firms I’ve been at have provided multiple screens. You’re Right. But I’ve never seen a monitor as big as the sheets we produce. When you are producing a sheet that is 24”x36” or 36”x48” on a computer screen that is smaller than that, you are always looking at a modified image. You can zoom in and zoom out but no one is going to see it the way you see it on the screen once it’s printed.
If you zoom into some drawing, it’s misleading, because you may be drawing something no one will be able to see when it is printed. If you zoom out far enough to see a whole sheet on the computer screen, certain details will be so small you can’t see them.
I don’t mean to complain too much. There are obvious advantages to using CAD software. I just find it mildly annoying that you have to constantly zoom in and out. And I find that by effectively changing scales constantly and using limited view windows, it makes it easy for mistakes to happen.
Awesome!!! "How quickly can use this to make decisions"
'your limited to a screen' what do you think a piece of paper is ?
well...there's no A1 size screen so the paper would be my choice.
Also you can crumble the paper and model it in 3D super fast.
it all depends on the imagination and skills of the user... not the really the software they use
That's true. I think ArchiCAD and Revit is effective for only skilled designers.
You did not mention the MORPH TOOL for early design concept and modelling. Do you use it in your office in your Archicad workflow?
You can create morphs more easily in the computer than you can onsite. They’re needed for creating some details or furniture. But In my experience, no, we don’t use morphs often.
@@DrewPaulBell Morphs also consume your RAM a lot so it may slow down the software
Morph is a tool, which has compacted all the sketch up popular tools into one button.
Just imagine, a whole software is just a one button for another software.
Can you make a video about this? "When do architecture students start to learn about the building materials used on construction sites? should you read books about it or what?"
Hey I just uploaded a video for you on this. Thanks for the question: ua-cam.com/video/Uj-EM0VSfuo/v-deo.html I hope it helps!
Hi,
Thanks for the video. Pretty useful.
Can you give me your input on my version of this issue ?
I started with SketchUp and later added AutoCAD (unwillingly) .. but i always disliked that workflow.
I took a break from School and i have been looking a other options namely_ Rhino or ArchiCAD as the initial 3D CAD tool of choice.
I like Rhino a lot because i am used to the command line_ similar to AutoDesk and it seems easier to use as a 1st 3D draft approach.
BUT
I like ArchiCAD a LOT because i can draw in 3D, right from the get-go, the 2D drawings are generated automatically...and the BIM approach is great for detail drawings.,.and general overall practicality.
I tend to use 3D drawings as my initial choice for generating ideas.. and i am transitioning to freehand sketching on the iPad for that now.... using the 3D drawing export to draft over by hand.
Between Rhino and ArchiCAD.. which one would you recommend as the main 3D tool to invest my time on ??
Thanks again !
I like archicad. It’s what I use in the office. I think rhino links directly with archicad now, but I haven’t used it before. It sounds like you can use both. The advantages to archicad are exactly what you described.
thank you , Actually I am repeating hearing this because I like to think about the workflow.
there are multiple tools and all have their benefits. I love SketchUp but the need to design in multiple products is double handling at best.
If you can sketch-design in ARCHLineXP or Revit or ArchiCAD from the get-go then there's no need to do things multiple times.
ARCHLineXP is a great option (IMO) as it can also be used on really big (or small) tablet devices with finger or stylus for rapid conceptual modelling as well as on PC later when detailing the design with no need to rework.
I think it also depends on the type of project you are working on. If you have free reign with your design and have little or no boundaries (this rarely happens of course) then SketchUp and Rhino3D are great tools, but working with real walls and real architectural objects like doors and roofs etc helps to ensure the design is build-able in the first place.
The best products at the top of the architectural design chain from my experience are ARCHLineXP (from Hungary), ArchiCAD (also from Hungary) Revit, Chief Architect, then dropping down to more 'old school' products like Vectorworks, All-Plan and AutoCAD or BricsCAD with architectural plugins like Smart Architect. SketchUp and Rhino3D are complimentary products to the above, even if they have BIM add-ons like PlusSpec, which does do an admirable job. Double handling is not efficient in most design offices.
there's not a lot of information on archicad, but there is a lot of books on sketchup. I use archicad, where can I get books or good info on archicad that is not only youtube?
Hey Drew very nice video! can you make a video of your studio?i really love to see a studio which works with archicad.
because over here almost all the studios work with autocad and sketchup and im working with archicad.
i was confused ,thank you mn
Archicad
The cost jump from sketchup to archicad/revit is huge. What about something in between like bricscad BIM.
Is archicad better than Autocad?
in terms of difficulty, which one is more difficult? I find that revit is very easy to understand, so I wonder if Archicad is easier or a little more difficult
I know people who have switched from Archicad to Revit and Revit to Archicad and it seems like everyone thinks the easier one is whichever one they learned first 🙄
Vectorworks is really good and I think it definitely competes with Revit albeit much cheaper.
Great point!
Thanks!
Like the explanation with the paper vs. zoom .. Theres so much space for innovation on these computertools
ArchiCAD
I am residential designer who owns a small (1 person) architectural studio. I have been using Autocad Architecture for 16 years (Used to be called ADT) - I really would like to move to a BIM program but still not sure to go with Revit or Archicad....what are your thoughts on these for residential work?
Archicad works well on small projects. For some reason, most of the archicad firms (that I am aware of anyway) are small firms. I am a proponent of Archicad. I think it’s pretty intuitive once you learn the basics. But I don’t have any experience in Revit so I can’t compare.
I ise ArchiCAD and suggest the same to all I meet. But to yi would suggest Revit as you are using Autocad Architecture from same company Autodesk. So it might be ease for you to migrate and also to communicate for support from the company.
Can you talk about the difference between Revit vs Archicad? does architect tend to use more Archicad than Revit? you mentioned that the Revit is used more for the engineers. You can use Revit architecture program. whats the difference?
@Naida Vucic yes it can
awesome boss, but are you working as an architect or a designer / draftman
+LaArs B Both. I am at a small architecture firm and everybody has a hand in everything. Design and producing drawings.
Well, it depends who you are. If you are 16 you wouldn't go into ArchiCAD, you'd go into SketchUp first (that's what I did). I'm sorry but ArchiCAD is dead. I don't see why somebody would learn it (unless they don't have bosses above them) the industry standard is Revit.
Haha if you watch the video It’s actually about which would you use first in the design process, not which one you should learn first in your career lol. But yeah, if you are just starting out before even going to school BIM is obviously too advanced.
ArchiCAD is not dead. In fact it's elder then Revit and it also behave like an elder. Their RnD are much more mature in relation with the need of the industry.
We must go to the much deeper bottom of any software, before giving it a death sentence 💀.
bro what about vectorworks
Why starting with Sketchup? you can model nice concept design with Archicad
Also Revit has mass design too 🤷🏻♂️
Some people find it hard to model conceptual design in Revit. In Archicad, it’s easy to work from start to finish - from initial design to construction documents.
Thank you for your videos ,indeed very informative videos. I see myself good at drawing a sketch in flat way ( not good at perspective) I mean like 2D flat elevation at very low scale ( Like no more than 1 and half inch by 1 and half inch to make overall shape of facade ) and bubbles or circles that I convert it to rectangle for making spaces, is that acceptable in view of academic presentation for my concept and for making concepts in professional practice ? please advise for type of paper and pen or pencil you recommend and what is the overalll frame size we should sketch by handrawing for elevation and 2D plans ( I am afraid to be wrong in my workflow by sketching in 1 and half inch by 1 and half inch ? sorry for my long question aside from that do you recommend sketching with IPAD instead of paper ?
Nice video
Paper is best for me
Jajjaja nice
i m a SketchUp user and a Revit user. i m an architect. i m very mach in stress when i open these programs. they make my life difficult. So i learned Blender and I feel fine now. Can finish a project with a nice render much better and more complex scenes. i use Revit for 2.5 years and SketchUp for 4 years more or less. Just learn Blender. Not as hard as it seams and 10 times more potentials. SketchUp is not an easy program. That is a mith. You just start easy, after that it's all breaking balls for me. Revit is a pain in the ass, always waning and hard to manipulate your model. only the floor component its useful and families are dificalt to make, a lot of time and complex thinking. From the little i have seen i think ArchiCad is more user friendly than Revit but i dont know much about it. Long Leave Blender. Get serious with your modeling.
Thats exactly my opinion about SketchUp: Very low entry difficulty but it gets more difficult as you want to do more advanced stuff.
Archicad so far in my experience is the other way around: it's difficult to grasp some of it's concepts at first but once you do it gets easier each time; the amount of information you can easily manage with it is incredible. Unless you want to do blobby organic architecture, which is not natively suited to do, it will serve you very well, but granted, as with any software, the quality of the output you receive depends on the Quality of the input you do.
On the other hand, revit never got any easier for me, but i must say it has a lot of standard structure, so maybe that is one of the reasons big companies use it.
skp is a thinking tool. If you can't think with it, use a pencil or something else.
@Drew, you're welcomed in our group
Pencil and paper first. Always. I cannot stand when I see people designing in 3D packages, especially ArchiCAD & Revit. Jumping into a rigid BIM environment is so detrimental, especially for those with little design experience. Even with my parametric work I always start with pen and paper. Additionally, and this is a major issue, clients and/or lecturers that see 3D renders or designs before anything else assume the design process is further along. Whether consciously or subconsciously people see a rigid and inflexible proposal. BIM comes in when the design is virtually sorted and used to document.
I've found that it is easier to store information on paper (because it's more intuitive), but much harder to retrieve that information (applying that information in another part of the process e.g. overlaying).
And vice versa for CAD - much harder to store the information (because of limitations of their interfaces), but much easier to retrieve that information.
So I would say, at the risk of overgeneralizing, that the ease of storage is inversely proportional to ease of retrieval of information.
With that in mind, I posit that if your process involves generating of several pieces of information and then picking one (or a number less than the whole) to work with (a whole to part approach; function follows form e.g. beginning with a concept), then pen and paper would be more efficient than CAD; and if your process involves retrieval of several pieces of information (a part to whole approach; form follows function e.g. first solving local design problems before solving the more global ones), then CAD would be more efficient than pen and paper.
However, I do agree with you that conventional CAD can be quite rigid in some instances, but I don't think that that would serve as sufficient reason to demonize all use of computers. In my opinion, CAD packages are not technically computer aided Design, but computer aided Documentation. I've been thinking about developing a "truly CAD" program that would aid with the form- follows- function approach, but I understand how this would not be especially beneficial for architects for whom function follows form ;)
That is why everyone uses Sketchup for concepts, you can still start with paper and then import the paper and sort the problems beforehand. Sketchup has no rigidity, it is freeform modelling. for small projects under 5 million I also use Sketchup to produce construction docs. You would be amazed at what can be done when you give it a go. :-)
Revit is terrible. Just trying to make site context buildings is painful!!
Im going from sketchup to vectorworks purely cause of cost. Vectorworks is cheaper than revit and archicad.
О чем этот чувак говорит?
Bro, I just want to let you know that people from Turkey watch your videos too. Just be slow man, our native language is not English, just a little bit slow please.
Haha. My new coworker is from Turkey and she tells me I talk too fast too! I’ll work on it lol.
Manual Draw and than Revit.
When you can use Revit SketchUp is useless..
chief architect is better than all
how is this type of daily spammy non-informative ever helping anybody? any architecture student can crank out 10 of this type of q&a soft content in 1 sitting, but is that what you want to be remembered for? the guy who does daily low-quality questionnaire videos?
I'm actually open to feedback on how you think I could make my videos better, if you wanted to give some concrete advice...but you were a little non-informative yourself in that comment, don't you think?
What would a high-quality video look like to you?
please get off the high horse, FYI I was offered substantial money to make hateful videos as hateful videos are very 'popular' in the UA-cam fitness industry (sad but true.) I refused the offer because I refuse to litter peoples' sub boxes with negativity. Thus you only see 1 video on my channel, made to mock a certain individual I used to dislike intensely. No matter what kind of feedback you get, let's be honest here, it's just utterly impossible to make DAILY informative videos, let alone on architecture related topics. By informative I mean Christopher Mcadams level or Eric from 30by40 design level. I learned how to use V-ray 2.0 following Chris's series, you can't even say that to a lot of the lynda/pluralsight courses. And you're doing what? talking about how to learn revit for 10 mins? spewing out some cool-aid advice mainly targeting amateurs, high shool kids, undergrads isn't considered informative baby please. I've seen your thesis presentation, graphics standard is average at best among my colleagues. let's be real here. Delete this comment all you want bro, I said my piece.
+Friedrich Gordon thanks for actually responding man. I'm not going to delete this. I'm not interested in doing program tutorials because the way I see it it's like how there are a lot of musicians who are really technically skilled and can play any cover song there is, but they don't know how to write anything original. I think techniques like that are actually surface level. There's a benefit for having videos like that in UA-cam, I'm glad they're out there, but those are not the videos I'm interested in making. And yeah man, I am indeed making videos for high schoolers and undergraduates right now because i think they are a valid group of people to support. I did well in school and I feel comfortable talking about success in school. I'm in the middle of my exams and I have a lot to learn about architecture before I dive deep into polemical discussions about how architecture should be. I'd like to do that one day, but I have to get better before I can do that. I've exchanged some emails with Eric from 30x40 and I respect him and his videos a lot. I'm trying to get better because I see what high quality videos he's making. But I also recognize that he has at least 10 years more experience than me in architecture. As for video quality, I want to step up my game. And one way I think I can do that is to make more. If you want to get better at drawing, draw everyday. I want to get more comfortable with this medium. I believe in learning by doing. And while I wince at the idea that I'm spamming people's inboxes, I'm not going to stress too much about it because anyone can unsubscribe if they want. It's not like this is a University and I'm charging $100k for videos. They're free for anyone watching. Also, I don't consider my content to be negative. You say they are not informative. I think that's debatable, but I know what you mean. Regardless, I try to make videos that are more like mentorship than information. But like I said, I do want to get better (including stepping up the informative content like you called out).
Thanks for the comment. (It's hard to convey tone in text, but that's not sarcastic on my part. I mean that.)