Having a real conversation, Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- How do we have difficult conversations?
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying became the most high profile victims of campus activism, after they were driven out of Evergreen College in Washington State, USA.
Recently they have become inaugural members of the so-called Intellectual Dark Web. The aim of the IDW is to have difficult conversations in public.
In this conversation with Rebel Wisdom's David Fuller they explain how their experience at Evergreen has informed their understanding of 'thinking in public'.
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I really want to commend y'all at **REBEL WISDOM** for embodying the best in regard to 'dialectical discussions' with your interview subjects. There are no 'fluffy content/questions' padded into the videos... it's very often grade "A" conversational 'meat' for chewing upon neurally.
Here's a very sincere thank you for continuing to embodying the best in the phrase "sustained intellectual-existential conversations" on your channel in 2018... here's hoping that you set your targets even 'higher' for 2019!
Peace...
I completely agree.
Those students should forever feel shame for what they did.
Well that is one perspective, but another way of looking at this, is that we would never have this wealth being gifted us here, in these discussions without their actions. so for that I thank them. The same with Jordan Peterson, if these Lecturers had all stayed safe in their educational jobs, the world community would be bereft of the these conversations offered us, and therefore the healing and teachings they offer us, ( and therefore our ability to redirect our Navigation). Sometimes we dont know the bigger picture of how we are woven in this Tapestry x
They will ion a few years
@@debrapurvis4408 Well said! 👏
To my knowledge, not a single university has offered these two extraordinarily gifted and devoted educators positions since the Evergreen fiasco. Think about that.
universities are dead....what more evidence does anyone need?^^ cant wait to see how the last few will save their asses and adopt somehow.....and i wonder how the knew thing will be looking and organizing itself......if there is any "evolution" :) at all and we dont end up in the stone age again......and all just because of some feminazis... i wonder if this has not happened before in dark ages and the cultural restrictions on men and woman are a relict of that cataklysmic event^^
The main issue is that they didn't publish at all during their careers. I'm sure something will come through for them eventually (if they want it).
publishing, from an academic hiring standpoint is often about nothing more than adding lauded notoriety to the personnel. These two are in the top .1% of most famous intellectuals. The reason they may not of had offers is because they are too "hot" and most schools are much too cold.
Steve Elshoff Brett said one in north or South Carolina offered Him a job . But still! Admin putting public perception over actual learning and exploration. Uni is doomed, a bunch of specialized ideologues
This meta-conversation seems to me to be one of the most important things that we can engage in, especially at this time in our societies. I found Bret Weinstein's description of a true 'safe-space' (as distinct from the sterility of what is usually so described) very helpful. However, often, people like Bret and Jordan Peterson, appear on the web, promoted under headlines like 'Peterson destroys SJW reporter'. That's patently not what Weinstein or Peterson are really trying to do, and such descriptions undermine their work. Surely we need to teach such people what a true safe-space meta-conversation looks like rather than treating it all as some school-yard brawl?
Yes! nicely put. I decided to leave a college environment where I knew I wasn't safe, not because I feared physical damage, but where I knew that if I "said the wrong thing", that is disagreed with the general discourse, I would be pointed to, discredited or shunned. There were authority figures who ruled based on credentials more so than competence. I could intuit that this would lead to no good place, but of course had "no way of proving it". Just the fact that I, like others, was so self-censoring is evidence of the fear culture professor Bret mentions. Knowledge and science cannot strive in this sort of environment. It's intricate nature makes it so that it must be built with care and compassion, as professor Heather mentions, which does not exclude constructive criticism.
"People become loyal when they are treated well. If you are only treating people well in order to create loyalty, you're not actually treating them well." - Heather Heying
When there is an agenda before people's best interested, you know it's bound to backfire. Thank you Heather for having the courage to come forward.
Wow, had to pause at the 3:50 mark and comment.
Bravo good sir! The duty of the Teacher is not to teach, but to create an environment where learning can take place.
So many of my teachers at all points in my education, from primary achool to college, just didn’t get this.
Love these two. Wish I had an opportunity to take one of their classes.
Bret and Heather are amazing people
What amazes me about them is that after the entire drama at TESC, they still won't question the foundational principles of their own "social" justice and "Progressive" ideology.
Ideology is a hell of a drug.
Amazing to me would be acknowledging the role their own politics played in fostering the climate that turned on them.
@@swingset1969 ...well said... I much prefer the old '73 Horowitz model to the new Weinstein. It's a shame they just don't make American Secular-Jewish Ultra-leftist Marxists like they used to...
Great series of interviews you've put together here. Very well done. Thank you.
Just wonderful. As always. Keep it going Rebel Wisdom. Thank you.
These two have found a great balance. Male & Female wisdom working together
Thank goodness there are still people left who are willing to stand up for principles of freedom of thought and freedom of speech.
This is the third Rebel Wisdom interview I have seen and thoroughly enjoyed. Finally subbed and looking forward to more.
Congrats on this interview. It's not only interesting, but I also loved the format. Watching parts of 2 individual interviews felt more interesting than watching a single interview to both of them at the same time.
I also love that you bring that professional touch to the editing and filming. I think you're worth supporting, great job.
Bret is always so interesting. I can't wait to see his next act.
FYI the Joe Rogan with him and Heather is amazing. His interview with Benjamin Boyce was also great.
This was really great guys! Nice little remix from the interviews. I love Bret & Heather, they are amazing and brave folks :)
If I could give this conversation a "1000 thumbs up" I would.
I don't agree with Bret and Heather on everything, but it's always a delight to listen to them. They are articulate, intelligent, and - I believe - good people. Having said that, it's both scary and encouraging to hear their story. Scary, because their experience shows us how dangerous and real political correctness is, and what authoritarians will do to attain and maintain power. Encouraging, because their story teaches us that the quest for truth is a very powerful pathway to a better world, whatever that truth may look like.
Just had to paraphrase this from Heather: We can’t do science unless we can make a question “falsifiable”; making something falsifiable is freeing. From the perspective of the student, this leads them to: “I’m free to think for myself, whereas before I felt roped in by authority.” Most educators today are doing a better job of demonstrating “their” authority, than freeing students from the yoke of that authority by learning to think for themselves.
The etymology of "Authority" is fascinating here, coming from the word "author" which means something like: "one who causes to grow". Authority normally implies the relationship to some collective or governmental sanctioned viewpoint etc., but it can imply a relationship one "cultivates" with themselves as they navigate their particular environment
Great video
cant get enough of these two!
Beautiful conversations
Dude you need to set the lights differently. This is not a horror movie. You can get the low key lightning without sacrificing the basic rules of portrait lighting. Other than that, great show.
To me it feels cozy and comfortable. I guess it's a taste thing and YMMV.
Hey, they have exactly the same carpet as we used to have back home!
You guys are so good I haven't even deleted my Patreon account
If you're wanting a list of rules, "Ad hominem arguments are off limits" seems like a good start.
Regarding „benevolent dictator“/ authority:
Ancient prescription for learning: Shravana, Manana, Nididhyasa (performed in this successive, evolutionary order)
SHRAVANA: listening attentively, without mental comment.
MANANA: clarifications, contradictions, implications.
NIDIDHYASANA: meditating on the meaning behind/beyond the words.
Most people today are either lacking desire to focus, are to narcissistically arrogant or in preconceived lazy groupthink to truly comprehend the value of these stages/structures of development (of value to all - I might add).
Great couple, thank you for the interview.
Namasté
This is great, Heying's audio could be twice as loud because she has such a soft voice!
Edit - could raise ALL voices by at least 6-12 dB! An easy tweak. The content is SO good, shame to underserve it.
3 VIDS, it truly is christmas
HO HO HO!
Two bright lights in the sea of darkness
"Safe space" should simply mean safe from persecution when doing or saying or otherwise expressing your own ideals. It should NOT mean that those ideas should be free from derision and ridicule, so long as it is the IDEAS being attacked, NOT the person. I should be as free to make fun of a made-up gender identity as I am to make fun of a racial elitist, or a flat-earther, or someone waiting to be Raptured. But in ANY of those cases, don't hound or bully the person for what (insane things) they may believe, just be there with rational counter-points to whatever "logic" they may be twisting.
I would have loved to take one of their evolutionary biology classes. I think they are on to something deeper that is not met with conventional institutions.
I would love it if IDWs created their own school that would include courses for mature students who didn't benefit greatly from there old school education system. It felt very specifically like I was being trained to be mediocre!
As a graduate student and a grandmother, I would uproot my life to be able to do my scholarship in the sort of place that they were describing. As it is, the bullying and disrespect that comes along with believing evolution is real and plays a large part in our psych and sociology, leads me to constantly wonder how long the Academy can withstand this lack of community building within its walls. I am not sure it will even survive long enough for me to get a Ph.D., let alone have that mean anything to society.
Holy shit a real conversation
you have a great channel but you need to raise your record volume.
It's crazy how we have to re-educate against all the intersectional bullshit. Something needs to be done to vet bad thinkers out of institutions.
33:55 I don’t get with Bret is saying. He says the hiring was done by asking the faculty who they thought should be hired but seconds later he says you can’t leave that up to the students. Did he misspeak? Either way, it makes no sense to hire that way.
I think the saddest part of this whole thing (leaving aside the trauma suffered by Bret and Heather) is the fact that the Evegreen model sounds fucking amazing, I would have benefited so much from something like that, having that freedom to explore and learn and talk. As a shitty but committed student, the model sounds wonderful and I would have loved to take part in it. Education is bankrupted and I honestly think that these innovative models are the answer if you manage to not fuck it up with ideology.
BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE.
Both wonderful people - heather is incredible
Maybe we could call it sensible gravity.
How are there 30k plus views of this and only ( at this point 1k likes ?) a stellar display of integrity and a genuine respect and championing of free speech and the creativity and progress it can facilitate.
These freedoms we have are not by accident, they have been fought for.
They are now under attack, we must fight for them, I have so much respect for the people that are publicly questioning the narrative and taking very real risks in order to defend what they believe.
Bravo, They have given me the courage to in my own small way do the same...and that is how this war is won, by calling out hypocrisy, facism ( especially when called anti-facism) and ideological possesion when and where you see it.
The radical left are the ne puritans, time to oppose this whilst we still can.
WHO should "Blow Up"? NOT the people having the difficult conversations, surely.
Rather those enforcing the Political Correctness and Virtue Signaling.
If THOSE utter scumbags, stealing our freedoms get fired, I will applaud it.
Those students have shown their total lack of knowledge (dangerous) and stupidity. Surely the privilege of study and drive is, to open one's mind!? Double standards aye. Go to college, learn nothing. Doh!!
I've been tracking your content and by the look of things i predict your next guest to be HRH Princess Michael of Kent?
I would love for Bret Weinstein to write a book on game theory for the layperson.
Are Brett and Heather now separated? :-(
I saw that they were interviewed separately, even though the footage was edited together. And Heather said that at the time they "weren't" (past tense) thinking about divorce. So are they then now?...
That would be a shame!
Helping students learn to think logically? I can see why she had to go.
Just the idea of you going on a podcast with Dave Rubin makes me question your judgment
Sounds to me that Bret violated his own question it doesn't appear that he was willing to endure the discomfort of listening to his distractors, even though they were wrong I believe it could of been resolved if they had been invited up or included in the discussion, but to choose to lecture down to these extremist only pushed them further.
I'm sorry, but are you insane?
There is plenty of video of Brett pleading with this violent mob to express their "position" and engage in civil discourse.
Prior to all this, Brett posted several painfully obsequious open letters to the school, respectfully explaining _his opposition to racial segregation,_ and asking for open, civil dialogue.
I'll assume you haven't followed most of the lead-up to this fiasco.
These, students are _not_ well-meaning, misguided children in need of a sympathetic ear. They have been surrounded by nothing but pathological compassion and sympathy and accommodation.
The TESC administration fully accommodated and catered to them for months leading up to this fiasco, -and has stood by them unwaveringly ever since.
"Talking down to them pushed them further" my arse.
The pathological moral weakness and historical ignorance that _you_ exhibit here is what "pushed them further".
"Oh, the poor, hateful, racist, quazi-Maoist thugs with absolute ideological support and encouragement of the administration, -were provoked by _two people_ being temporarily slightly less submissive than they hoped".
Bret and Heather were subsequently _forced out of the university,_ for the crime of respectfully dissagreing, and your poor helpless "students" were formally granted power to re-write the "hate-speech and harrassment" policies of the college.
My God, I hope you were honestly just unfamiliar with this story when you wrote that. If not, you have a responsibly to humanity to abstain from voting for the rest of your life.
'Detractors'.
I would like to know what narratives they encouraged that led to this issue... what was the catalyst to change of attitude? What leading narratives were indulged previous to the acute issue.
I believe the answer is postmodernism and one of its derivatives, critical race theory.
I want to take Brett Weinstein's course.
Problem is the curriculum... Got to read animal farm 1984 breve new world the crucible the flies Lord of the flies ordinary men eichman in Jerusalem gulag archipelago the making of the atomic bomb crime and punishment souls of black folk Kant Nietzsche Jung Marx Hitler Freud Mary Wolstonecraft Goethe plato Aeschylus Rousseau Paine Jefferson laplace gauss Maxwell Franklin Newton plank Einstein bhor suetonius tacitus livy etc...
Moreover, the faculty needs to KNOW this stuff inside and out and how to teach it. The most striking thing I have seen is how profoundly ignorant the faculty at evergreen appears with respect to the basics.
Knowledge was hard won over the past 2000 yrs and it takes decades to acquire and master. I see little evidence of this mastery permeating any discussions among the faculty.
You can't understand how or why we have nice things unless you understand where they come from and what condition they improved upon...only then is it "safe" to start tinkering. Forgo this step and you're going to make it worse and subject your generation to the opportunity cost of wasting time reversing earlier progress.
Study. Then study some more them study something else...
To teach English at the university level you should have a basic knowledge of science (upper division undergraduate quantum mechanics stat mech and e&m as well as biology/physiology chemistry geology, civil engineering, archeology paleontology, a sound understanding of psychology and classics, ancient and modern history) in addition to expertise in the area of your doctorate studies.
If you're a university professor you shouldn't be allowed to fly on an airplane until you can't explain how they work (it's sophomore level physics). You can develop that level of mastery and breadth of knowledge in 3-4 yrs if you're motivated.
It mirrors the requirements we should have for our science and engineering faculty. Want to teach physics better know how industrial accidents occur or how the politics and logistics of the Manhattan project functioned and why it was effective and necessary. You need to be able to name the entire Julio Claudian dynasty and explain the concept of a Hegelian dialectic the teachings of Machiavelli juxtaposed with Sun tzu and have more than a passing familiarity with Shakespeare and the titanic struggles that played out during the 20th century and how the deep state military industrial complex and information systems ACTUALLY work... as they are the primary forces driving your work.
We have doctors of philosophy with no concept of anything except the contents of their own navels. The problem is the number of positions occupied by vacancies...wanted scholars...adherents to Gresham's law need not apply.
-Free Kekistan!
OBEY:MOFA!
Two good liberals and decent human beings.
I miss the beard
The assertion that propositions must be falsifiable in order to constitute a rational discourse is itself unfalsifiable. As a methodological prerequisite for science, fine. But not for rationality.
Bret ..if you say: i dont say to you: you are not welcome...i say :this are the rules and if you dont live by them then you are not welome by your own wish...."
...idk... i can see the base of some of the SJW thinking here.....they set the rules..and if you dont obbey...you shut yourself out of the discussion......
on the other way....yeah you as the teacher are the authority and can and should do that....then is the question who gets this authority in wich situation and is it a good idea to give it to not elected, resentful and hateful children?^^
Shadowhands 33 good point. I think perhaps a better way to say it ( and you'd think an evolutionist would have come up with this) is to use the word "select". If you agree to the Covenant then you have selected yourself for the class. If you do not agree then you have selected yourself out of the class.
@@marykochan8962 ...its the old authority question...who gets it,,,holds it..and is it from most others accepted?^^ i really hate it becausei can not with and not without it^^
@@shadowhands3321 yes, complicated. There is legitimate and illegitimate authority, for one thing. And then there is our sinful inclination to reject legitimate authority and willfully place ourselves under illegitimate authority for short-sighted selfish reasons. Quite a mess.
@@marykochan8962 : nicely said^^ i mentioned the same thing on another comment yesterday..but not in such a perfect way as you^^
its one of the reasons iam more willing to listen to religion/philosophy in the last years and less willing to accept easy answers i have not thought over thoroughly and repeatetly over some time
Does anyone know when this is going to get banned? This stuff is way to bigoted to be viewed by the public. I am appalled that something hasn’t been done..
Sarcasm everyone I’m kidding. But does anyone know if this channel has faced any blow back? And this stuff is very damaging to some of these fragile views and psyche of the “highly educated”. Very good stuff ! Really Hope reason comes back en vogue.
rebel dude, can you find other people than weinstein, shapiro, and peterson. i'm kinda tired of these three. honestly kinda oversaturated of them imho..
I'm not saying you are a moron, but we've never interviewed Shapiro, and have over 100 interviewees on our channel. Remember though, I'm not at all saying you are stupid. Please don't get that impression
You could also make a helpful suggestion as to who you’d prefer to see interviewed.
@@RebelWisdom Shapiro never returned your emails? The jerk...Never said you interviewed them, though,...not calling you illiterate, bro. Not calling you a sensitive emo either, bro. And I wasn't at all implying that you're a lazy one-trick hack making money from the same topics and repeatedly riding the coattails of various minor internet celebrities, who, if they decided to cut you off, would basically leave you without any idea what to do with you channel. Not saying that at all. Bro.
@@larsongregory2330 lol saaltyyy
@ your're right maybe they should, brah. i would bring a lot. But it might shatter your weakly constructed cocoon of "reality"...