I liked how you measured just a tad more marine alcohol to see if viewers were really paying close attention & to elicit comments about the video. Very clever!
Thanks for the video :). I was just thinking that you could have used a scale to measure how much was left in the Trangia burner after each burn. I don't mean this in a corrective manner, just a small observation. All in all, YOU are the one actually doing stuff to help everyone viewing, including yourself. That aside, another great video and thanks a bunch! :)
Good point. I honestly didn't consider either trying to recover the alcohol or in anyway measure it until I realized how much was left in the burner. Weighing the burner before and after would have been the easiest and most accurate as well. I am happy if this helps anyone in any way. Thank you
I've put off getting an alcohol stove just because I don't want to have to deal with a toxic (on some level) liquid. But if I DO get one, I will stick with the Marine alcohol. Thank you for such a well-thought-out test. Hope you're doing well!
Another nice video, thanks for sharing Mark, I use denatured ethanol by Bio Flame, it says on the bottle it doesn't emit harmful fumes. Hope it's going well and hope to see you soon my friend. ATB, Paul.
Sorry to revive an old comment, but I was curious- how well does Bio Flame burn? I've read that it's very sooty because of the added Isopropanol. Wanted to hear of your experience with it.
An availability comment, methyl hydrate is also available at most heavy truck facilities including truck stops, as it is commonly used as air line antifreeze. I haven't bought any for a few years, but I imagine CTC has a much better price. Thanks for producing the video, I've had one of those little stoves for years and will soon be putting it to use at my cabin, so your test came in quite handy for me.
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Gas line antifreeze is all HEET is. You may not be able to get HEET, but if you're using gas line antifreeze, you're using the same stuff.
I use methylated spirit which is about $4.50 per litre here in Western Australia. Thanks for the interesting experiment. BTW I like when you say “Stand by”
I have also heard it referred to by our UK brothers as just "meths". I think the "stand by" must come from my policing days...never gave it much though before. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft A little late to the party but I too use methylated spirit (10% water) in my stoves. Really good heat and the water mix keeps the burn very clean.
Great initial test (that I'm just getting to now) Mark. I have a minor theory. Because the marine alcohol burned cleaner and the plume seemed much more robust, I'm wondering if a slight height adjustment might be needed to get the most out of the burn... sort of a new "sweet spot" for a cleaner burning product. Just a thought.
Yes, I think you are right on. It would take some experimenting to see what height would be optimal. Issue is many stove setups are at a fixed height so the challenge would be finding or putting together other setups. Thanks for commenting
I dug up and dusted off my Swedish(?) milsurp trangia alcohol stove that I bought decades ago to see if using 70% vs 90+% iso alcohol made a difference. the 90+% stuff lights up easier and burns a bit better but I'd use whatever was available if it were an emergency situation which is why I got it in the 1st place.
I got the Canadian tire stuff too (found it in the paint section), the price is right and I have it on standby for camping and my emergency kit (for outside use only).
As a long time methyl hydrate user I was a bit concerned to think that toxic effects could come about from skin exposure. I only have one liver and I would like to keep it as healthy as I can for as long as I need it. I did some research on my own and I am very grateful I did. Now I don't ever plan to bathe in the stuff but I will be much more careful in the future and avoid getting this on my skin. I was not aware of the problem with fumes from burning it in an enclosed space! So this was well worth my time to investigate. Thank you again, Mark.
I found what looks like the best stuff at Canadian Tire yesterday. They sell a product called Bio-Flame in the wood stove section. It is supposed to be 95% ethanol 5% propanol and is intended for indoor alcohol fire places. Thanks for commenting
Great presentation. I wonder if the marine alcohol needs to be farther away from the burner for optimum efficiency. That said it would have the much faster to justify the cost difference. Just a suggestion: if a trangia were weighed when empty and was weighed after each test the difference in weight would be the amount of unused fuel.
You could be right. There are a few variables I could still test but as you say, there is a significant cost difference between the fuels. I am using methyl hydrate exclusively now. It suits my needs. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark. I hope you are doing well! What I use in my alcohol stoves and my cigarette lighters is 91% isopropyl alcohol which is 21% stronger then regular rubbing alcohol is 70% strong. It burns almost as hot as HEET but cost a lot less. A 16 oz of 91% isopropyl alcohol cost about a $1.00 more then the 70% alcohol at a Drug store or Walmart. Try it and see how you like it!
I am doing pretty good. Only minor side-effects from the chemo so far. Not sure if we can get the 91% isopropyl here in Canada but I will look for it to test. I know the lower percentage has a lot of water in it causing it to burn cooler and smoky.. Thanks for commenting
wait you actually use it instead of zippo lighter fluid for your cigarette lighter and it works well? dont it dry up much faster? and why not get 99% instead? for lighter ok but i would never use iso fro cooking stove,,always better to use ethanol or methanol if that is all there is available,,also iso leaves dirty gunk specially if its not totally pure
Personally, I'll keep happily using the meth hydrate :0) Ya know. If folks would actually take a look at a material data sheet for the meth-hydrate, along with the sheets for unleaded gasoline, fingernail polish removal, and say something like ammonia... This meltdown over the dangers of one compared to another is silly. Imo. Don't huff it. Don't drink it, dont get it on your skin, don't breath the fumes. Just like alcohol, gasoline, or cleaners. Gee whiz. Great vid! 😄
Very very interesting tests Mark. First the same bottle of methyl hydrate is sold 6.99$ here in Québec at my local Rona Hardware store and I don't know where I can get the other one for boat. I have try to find some éthanol without success but it is know to give more out put than méthanol. As a lean 6sigma blackbelt I am always amused when I see people doing test and making only one sample trial to draw some kind of conclusion. To me a minimum of 30 samples for both tests bring some more accurate data to be able to compare. That said for me when it comes to fuel for alcohol stoves there is few points that I take in consideration. The amount needed to acheive my cooking needs, Time needed is a less important factor as I am there to enjoy not to speed 😉 ; the price and the avaibility are also very important and finally the behavior under real Life in the outdoors conditions. Sometimes what seems to behave very good in a controled environment not necessairely behave the same once out in the Woods. Your point on health is probably the most important but any kind of fuel at one point or another brings some health drawback. Canister stoves , white gas stoves, alcohol stoves and even wood stoves have some so it's difficult to make a good choice but your point maybe help to make a better one. Hummm what difficult choice😉
Thanks Laurent. I am the first to admit that my test was less than scientific and should not be relied upon. Since that test I did use the marine alcohol in the same stove while in the woods on a cooler, windier day. It worked but flared up a lot. I do prefer to use liquid fuel for a few reasons, primarily I believe it has a lesser carbon footprint than canister gasses. Also, I dislike the noise of canister stoves. In the end, my test and all the other available information is just "fuel" for thought. Thanks for commenting
Mark Young i fully agree with you Mark I don’t like canister stoves for the exact same reasons 👍 Sometimes I like to use my very old white gas burner ( an old czechoslovakia army roarer little stove) but my to go remains the fancyfeast/ tomatoes paste cans stove. Since I have discovered it it’s my favorite specially in winter.
Thanks again for your excellent comparison and review. I just bought a Trangia I was surprised my 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol- I happen to have a couple bottles extra of late 🤔😳😷 - wouldn’t light at about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. Would 99% light better with a little colder temps? I didn’t think I needed a warmer at mid 30’s 🤔🙏👍
Your 91% rubbing alcohol is 9% water. Since alcohol is hypotonic, it absorbs water from the air. If your 91% is old, it might be as low as 80% by now. I wouldn't think that would be a big deal, but apparently it is. 99% alcohol should be only 1% water, and a much better performer in near-freezing temps.
Great comparison, Mark; all I use is Methal Hydrate always outdoors & 4 a 4lit. cont. on sale @ C.T. 4= $9:99 I'll stick with it Thanks for the test ATB Ter God Bless
I have a couple of litres I need to use up as well. As you say, if you use it outdoors and are careful not to get it on your hands, you reduce the risk considerably. Thanks for commenting
great video mark. The lack of avl fuel sources kept me from getting an alcohol stove for about 20 years. Now I use the methyl hydrate as well. It is 11 bucks for 3.78 ltrs at Canadian Tire. Might have to start making moon shine, if I want a food grade alcohol. lol
The methyl hydrate from Canadian Tire is all I ever used until recently. Next time I need fuel I might try the Bio Flame from Canadian Tire. It is listed as 95% ethanol. That way I can save the moonshine for "other purposes". Thanks for commenting
Thank you for your informative video. Something I am wondering is? If their is a little more marine alcohol left over, and plus a little less time required for boiling two cups of water which is not significant for a roughly seven and half minute time; However if a person had to boil rice or beans or had to heat a camper for hours, Well then the seconds could turn into significantly more burn time as well as significantly less fuel burned as well. What I am wondering is it could be quite beneficial over time as well as the health factor which is very important. Would it be safe to burn that little stove for hours in a camper so long as a wi did was cracked?
All things considered, I like using the marine alcohol except for the cots of buying it. I cannot guarantee safety but I can say it is used aboard yachts to cook with. Hope this helps
If you want to forget all the worries about any added chemicals it will cost more but is safe. Use 190 proof Everclear or in my case here in Florida I use the 153 proof Diesel brand of food grade alcohol. Open areas I use denatured alcohol and in sheltered areas the food grade alcohol. The other advantage of the food grade , if you are brave enough it can be consumed or used as a disinfectant on injuries.
Seems the difference in performance is negligible between the two. I would ad that if you buy methyl hydrate in 4liter containers from Canadian tire I think it is about $10 so roughly 1/3 the cost of marine alcohol. I've not experimented with marine fuel, but I have tried some others. I've even experimented with blending fuels. The best results that I have come up with are a blend of 60%methyl hydrate and 40% "blue flame" fondue fuel ( sold at Canadian tire as well for approx $4/ half liter). Some fuels burn hotter but for me the criteria was cleanest burning (including no flare ups) and last amount of fuel used to boil a given amount of water. With this mixture, my diy double wall soda can design boils 500ml (2 cups) of room temp water in 4 1/2 min using about 20ml (2/3oz)of fuel.
Wow, you have done some extensive testing with impressive results. I am considering doing some blends myself as well as tests with jelled fuel, fondue fuel and 90% isopropyl alcohol. I have also started considering how different stove design would perform with the different fuels. My main users are the ALOCS, a DIY double wall similar to yours and a fancy feast style wick stove. If I can get anywhere near your results I will be happy. Thanks for commenting
Mark Young I was bored at home almost bed ridden with shingles at the time. There's obviously still some variables that I haven't been able to eliminate in my experiments though because when I tried to replicate that stove the boil times went as high as 6 min. I played with hike sizes and hole positions as well as different types of soda cans.
Mark, that sounds extremely interesting. Kindly keep us posted. I have read that a blend of equal parts methanol and 91percent Isopropyl alcohol burns soot free and is safer and cheaper as well.
its the same thing,,you are better off using the pure methyl rather than the heet with is methyl but with proprietary additive(s) so they can sell it for more
When I first got my Trangia stove nearly 20 years ago, I did a similar test. I found that the methyl hydrate did actually boil the water a bit faster. This was confusing to me, since I had previously learned that ethanol has more heat per unit volume than methanol. A year or two ago, I did a bit of research to try and find out the reasons behind the discrepancy. It turns out that methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol. This means that you will use more methanol, but it will boil water a bit faster. This might matter to hikers, but not to car or boat campers.
This is most interesting. I was not aware of that. I would think for hikers fuel efficiency is most important so they don't carry more weight than they need or run out too soon. For me it would be dollar value. I like the ethanol but it is many times more expensive than the methanol. Thanks my friend
I believe the Canadian methyl alcohol is the UK methylated spirits, which is 90% ethanol and 10% methanol (plus colourings and flavourings. Both products you tested should be substantially the same chemically. You mentioned turning the extractor fan on. Could that be the reason for the flaring?)
Hi Tom. You are correct in that the UK methylated spirits is the same as denatured alcohol and the marine alcohol I tested. Although, the ratio of methyl hydrate to ethanol can vary between manufactures. The methyl hydrate I used and is common around here is 99.9% pure with no ethanol. I don't think either the range hood or open window had enough force to cause the marine alcohol to flare up. I am now wondering if it has something to do with being used in a "pressurized" stove. On board ships/boats it is used in a wick type stove. I think I just may have to test this theory. Thanks for commenting
You mention Heet and talk about Methl Hydrate. From reading the contents on a Heet bottle I see that it "contains Methyl Alcohol". Is Methl Alcohol the same as Methl Hydrate or are they different? Does your discussion apply to Heet?
Yes, methyl-hydrate and methyl alcohol are the same thing. We do not have Heat available to us in Canada so I purchase unbranded methyl-hydrate at a local hardware store. From what I understand, Heat is available in two types "yellow" bottle is methyl-hydrate and the "red" bottle is isopropyl alcohol. Hope this helps
Thanks for the video well done. I suspect the stove you ave has been optimized to burn methyl hydrate (methanol) and so the better results. Ethanol is a more energy dense fuel than methanol so it will burn hotter if the stove is designed for it. Burning isopropl in a stove not optimized will result in soot. If you are using a jet stove you might not want to burn isopropyl as you will clog your jet holes. Canadian Tire has a Motomaster branded Premium Fuel Line Antifreeze sold in a black litre bottle. This is denatured Alcohol it is ethanol probably 95% and the remaining 5% is pure isopropyl. This fuel is impressive, in a small tomato paste tin stove in which I was using methanol I was able to boil a litre of cold tap water in just over 13 minutes with 40 ml of methanol but with the same stove and the motomaster fuel line antifreeze I was able to boil a litre of cold tap water in 10 minutes with less than 30 ml. Very hot very clean very blue burning and I am at just over 3000 ft elevation. Canadian Tire Motomaster Premium Fuel Line Antifreeze #038-2332-0 one litre . You might want to give this very clean energy rich fuel a try in your stove.
Great information on using different fuels in different stoves. I happen to have some of the Canadian Tire gas-line antifreeze I was going to use in one of my stoves. Tell me more about your tomato paste can stove. Is it a wick stove, low pressure or high pressure stove?
the stove I am experimenting with now is based upon this design ua-cam.com/video/DcUKaHoYEUU/v-deo.html though I am using in this case a much smaller can size. (small tomato paste tin 156ml size a 53ml redbull can would work. I am using 24 top jets 9/64" dia and 5 lower inlet jet holes starting at 11/64" hen worked up larger. A taller tin that permis the 60mm gap/distance between the jets (lower and upper) will draft better. I just wanted to play with a very small tin for this project. Hope this helps and is of interest. thanks for the great video.
I suppose that designing a stove to be efficient enough to burn iso alcohol is a good plan as it is so widely available and is cheap. It might also be good with other fuels but watch out for heat in the stove. The nice thing about the original design video I attached is that you can also burn charcoal in it as it is a steel can and will take the heat where an aluminum can will not and will melt on you. This is a very interesting hobby and provides lots of things to think about and to tinker with.
If you cant the loser holes so the air intake will generate a good swirl or vortex this will help to make for a hotter pre heat to the gas and with iso will make for less soot. in a shot can like the tomato paste can I am playing with now you might want to try more canted inlet holes of a smaller size that the original five at 11/64" dia. You can find calculators on line which will provide you with the area of assorted hole diameters so you can experiment with different numbers of jets while keeping the total air intake about the same.
Hi Mark...an enlightening test. I'm not sure what the difference between methyl hydrate and a purer form of methanol would be, but a possible source for about the purest methanol you'll find might be your local automotive speed shop (it's burned in fuel dragsters). But you'll probably have to bring your own container and buy it by the gallon.
Interesting. I will look into pure methanol. Cost will be a factor for me but I'll see what I can do. Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark, this is a very important topic. Due to health concerns, I am too uncertain about the best fuel. The Heet product you reference is extremely common in the USA and in the yellow bottle, its 100% methanol. It is designed for automotive industry as a gas line antifreeze. Please correct me if I am wrong about this,but isn't methyl hydrate also used similarly in Canada? And I believe both products are methanol, an extremely toxic substance, that will blind and kill you with less than one once of either indigestion or skin absorption. Great video ✔ ✔ ✔
Glad you enjoyed the video. Yes, methyl hydrate is the same as methanol. It is my understanding that gas line antifreeze is usually made from either methanol or isopropyl alcohol. I was under the impression that HEET is made from ethanol mixed with either methanol or isopropyl. I have heard it refered to denatured alcohol which is ethanol mixed with methanol. Any amount of methanol would be dangerous but the higher the percentage, the more dangerous. I would think, even the best fuel like the marine alcohol (90% ethanol) should probably be used outdoors for safety. Hope this helps
Mark, Thanks for your reply and helpful information. I just did some reading, to double check my memory. Heet comes in two variations. The Yellow bottle of Heet is only methanol and is intended as a gas line antifreeze for gasoline engines. The Red bottle of Heet is only isopropyl and is intended as a gas line antifreeze for diesel engines. As far as I know, ethanol is the cause of engine trouble and people go to great lengths to remove it from auto engines, thus it's not used in any antifreeze for fuel lines. I agree with you, at least in the USA, denatured alcohol is ethanol mixed with methanol, in order to poison it so that it's no longer consumable. Thus, excise tax is not applicable. In the USA, the ratio of ethanol to methanol in denatured alcohol is proprietary information to the manufacturer and is typically not fully disclosed. A very confusing topic indeed. As you probably know, prior to going on disability for MS, I worked as an Account. Accordingly, perhaps some of your viewers are chemists, having far greater knowledge than myself and will share with us. . . . I would also like to add that skin absorption of methanol is just as dangerous as ingestion.
B. Mann skin absorption is something that I'm always mindful of when using any of these products. I have squeeze bottles that are good at delivering the fuel precisely without dropping or leaking. They are the 60ml and 120ml bottles that "e-juice" is sold in. My friend "vapes" and saves his bottles for me. They also come in 10ml and 30ml size but I find these to small. I wear rubber gloves when blending and filling bottles.
Buck that sounds like a very practical set-up. I remember watching a video by "Shug" Sean Emory, where he details a very similar design. I would venture to guess that skin absorption is a very important topic and it is not fully appreciated by some. Great feedback!
The price for Sterno on Amazon seems competitive and you can bet that's not toxic. How does that compare with methyl hydrate and denatured acohol? Amazon also offers a gallon can of denatured alcohol for $15 (Klean-Strip GSL26 Denatured Alcohol, 1-Gallon (not prime))
The marine alcohol is also considered denatured by virtue of it being ethanol mixed with methanol. What I have also learned is that a lot of the denatured alcohol has higher percentage of methanol than the marine alcohol does. Not sure if we can get the Klean-Strip here in Canada but I will check. Thanks for commenting
Hi Jim, I just read that most varieties of chafing fuel actually are methanol. Only some of the new varieties are ethanol based. Except if you live in Pennsylvania, where I have read that methanol chafing fuel is not legal. Hope this helps.
I researched Sterno and found it is jellied ethanol that has been denatured with methanol. So yes, there is some methanol in Sterno although it is only about 10% to 15%.
I found that there is a Sterno product that is jelled methanol - Sterno Handy Fuel. The jelled ethanol is a hotter, longer-burning higher quality product.
Thanks Jim for the information. I have been looking into jelled fuel from Costco and its a great deal in USA, for 48 seven oz cans for $20. But they are only Methanol. I have to get some Sterno and then compare. Thanks again!
As a result of my cancer I finally understand the saying "If you have your health, you have everything you need". You don't really appreciate your health until its gone or being threatened. Thanks for commenting
Your attitude along with your treatment you will be fine . In all honestly I've never had a fire with anything other than wood or cow chips in all of my 74 years take care my friend . happy trails.
my soda can stove with 1 oz methanol bring 1 cup of water to a rolling boil at 3min 50 sec and i still have about 1/2oz fuel left,,not bad ,does that mean it should theoretically bring 2 cup to a boil in 7min 40 sec?,,,wondering if ethanol does any better,,i think even though only half an oz is being used for the job it is better to put in a full oz so the flame is not struggling,seems to do better when there is more than it needs
You are getting some great results. I have "played: with amounts and types of stoves and pots a bit. I am not expert (Hiram Cook) by any means. I can say the ethanol does burn hotter with a larger flame. I feel a larger diameter pot benefits more from the ethanol because of the flame spread. Thanks for commenting
Question: isnt just common alcohol (Ethanol 96%) publicly available in north america? The basic one, used also as medical supply... is available almost anywhere from drugstores to supermarkets in Argentina. Is not the same overthere? Greetings, thanks for the video!
At least here in Canada we cannot buy pure ethanol without a doctors perscription. It has to be adulterated with methanol to deter consumption. I am not sure about the US. Thanks for commenting
I know that this is 3 years late on the video, but I wanted to give a quick answer from the US side of the border. High proof ethanol is sold as Everclear brand in the US. 190 proof (95% abv) is legal in about half of the states. In the other states (like mine) the highest proof legally available is 151 (75.5% abv). Both bottles usually cost ~$20usd for 750ml. That puts them at $0.80 for 30ml. The 75.5% version is adulterated with water to lower the proof and doesn't burn very well as a result. Yellow bottle Heet is pretty close to the methyl hydrate Mark used in this test and costs ~$1.50usd for 355ml or $0.13 per 30ml. Much cheaper and more widely available at any gas station, auto supply, hardware store, or mega retailer. Denatured alcohol (marine fuel) is commonly available in hardware stores for ~$7.00 for 946ml or $0.22 per 30ml. Slightly more expensive than methanol, but still close to 1/4 the price of pure grain alcohol. Both of these options are much easier to find as well. Hope this info was helpful!
@@Novack_ basically in the US pure Ethanol that hasn’t been “Denatured” (adding methanol to make it toxic), gets taxed as an alcoholic beverage. This makes it significantly more expensive than Methanol, or Methylated Spirit.
If you watch your video, you will see that you put more marine alcohol into your stove than you put methyl hydrate. I suggest that you get a scale and tare weight the container, then you can measure the remaining fuel.
Try using 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, it is inexpensive and boils 16 oz. of water in about 7 mins. Cost is about .98 cents USD in Walmart for a 16oz bottle.
There's also that blue fondue burner fuel... which I think is mostly methanol and I think it's intended to be burned inside... so I don't think the combustion products are too dangerous. I think ethanol, like your marine stove fuel, has more energy per gram than the methanol, so for the real weight conscious that could be the determining factor. Of course, we Canadians can't use the Everclear that the Americans can since we can't buy drinkable ethanol with that high a concentration.
We Canadians would probably drink the Everclear if it was available to us😬. I have tried inexpensive fondue fuel in the past and found it burned cool, smokey and stained my stove blue. I haven't tried better quality stuff but you are right when you say it is intended for indoor use so how bad can it be. Thanks for commenting
If you had a small digital kitchen scale, you could have weighed the 1 oz fuel, or weighed the stove with the fuel when you began, and weighed it afterwards to determin how much fuel was consumed - also weighing the 1 oz. of fuel may have helped, as a comparison.
Mark, it suddenly occurred to me that you've never reviewed the Trangia range, specifically the 27 and larger 25. This is bushcraft blasphemy! I've tried to email you with no success and I don't do Facebook. Even today they are a viable option, offering storm proof cooking in a variety of materials. As Canada has a similar climate to Sveeeden do you not think it is worth a look? Good reviews which I always check before making a purchase. Paul
Right on. Basically my conclusions but this is true only for this stove/pot combination. I do prefer the ethanol over the methyl-hydrate but it is harder to find and cost a bit more. Thanks for commenting
Would the health benefits be lessened in an outdoor situation? Also, the marine alcohol may be better in a windy environment with the bigger flame. Like you say, I suspect the advantages would not be significant enough to give one an advantage over the other. Are we nit picking or what...just get out and explore!
I would think the methanol / methyl hydrate is probably safe if used outdoors and don't get it on your hands. I have used the marine alcohol in the woods and found it still flamed up a lot but worked just fine. You are so right...lets just get out and have some fun in the woods exploring
I think if used outdoors, the problems with breathing the methanol fumes are cut down significantly (I'm assuming no one's stupid enough to actually consume it). My problem with methanol is always the absorption through skin contact. You've always got to transfer fuel from the original container, either into a smaller container to take with you or directly from the original container into the stove. The one-liter bottle Mark showed in the video is really too large to take on a hike for me, so I'd want to transfer it to t a smaller 2 - 4 oz bottle, and then you have the problem with spills, leaks, etc. that give you the skin contact. You're best off wearing non-permeable gloves to do that part if you can. Skin contact exposure (probably) won't kill you outright, but repeated exposure probably isn't very good for you, especially if you've got a compromised immune system. Manufacturers don't like to put warnings like that on products unless they have to, so there probably is some toxicity in any exposure. I use denatured alcohol in my stove, not sure of the exact percentages but 90 - 95% ethanol with enough methanol to make it poisonous if consumed. It's more expensive, but it's worth the price for my peace of mind. But then, I'm not out in the wild as often a you folks probably are, so it could get expensive with constant usage.
better off with 99% pure methyl hydrate without paying for the name brand and extra unknown additives only used to sell a name brand so they can say its not juts pure methanol for the sucker consumer
Why do none of these tests on UA-cam show the resulting soot produced by these fuels? Soot residue is important when it comes both to health and cleanup. ; )
Neither of these fuels produce soot. I have heard UK people say their's do but no one in North America experiences this that I know of. I can only assume that there is an additive to UK meths that causes soot
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Isopropyl is nastee. The soot output is really thick, nasty and nearly impossible to clean. I tested Denatured (thanks for the tip!) and it worked dandy.. and faster. : ) I boiled a cup of ice-cold water in less than 3 minutes on a fraction of an ounce of alcohol and it burned super-clean with zero odor. (Three minutes is as fast as my Mr. Coffee electric Espresso maker, so that's plenty fast... a good "cooking" flame). I think that will be my fuel of choice because no fumes, no soot, and takes minimal fuel. I tested with a standard stove almost exactly like you used in the video... and even after the fuel was dumped and the burner "empty"... I lit it to see how long it would burn. It burned nearly 5 minutes. That's pretty decent burn results. And of course denatured alcohol is available just about anywhere and easy to carry. : )
95% Ethanol can be purchased at Canadian Tire. They use isopropynol as the denaturing agent. It goes by the name of Bioflame and is used in fireplaces. It's slightly cheaper per gallon at $25.99 than Captain Fhab at $27. Ethanol should have about 1/3 more energy than methyl hydrate. Opps, I see another poster showed you the path to the Bioflame fuel - guess I should have read all the posts first.
No worries my friend. I actually found the Bioflame my self after posting this video. You are correct, the ethanol should produce more heat as well as be cleaner and therefore safer to use. I did find it produced a little more heat but not significant. In fact in a cost-efficiency comparison it does not do as well as methyl hydrate. I still like using it just the same
I found that ethanol burns hotter and faster (they key being faster). The amount left over after the burn was not generally a good indicator of the difference. On my home grown alcohol burner, the ethanol flame was more vigorous and higher in controlled conditions but more of the flame was going up the sides of the pot than with methyl hydrate, thus reducing the effectiveness. A different burner may have had different results, but in real world conditions with the wind blowing ethanol proves to be useful.
@@Roarmeister2 it seems there are two products,the one you mentioned and an anti line freeze one,,,but the one you mention do you have a link to that or item number or exact name of the product so i can look it up?
Heet is a waste of money because you are paying for brand name and its basically methanol with additives,,much better to buy that methyl hydrate you are showing wich is the base ingredient in Heet and larger quantity at cheaper price,,i would prefer to use ethanol if i can find it here in toronto,perhaps i need to look at places that sell for motorboats maybe like a Sail store? i can not find it in any hardware store,however i have been using methyl hydrate at 10 bucks a gallon so very good deal,perhaps its more expensive in nova scotia? aside from being safer ethanol has a higher BTU than methanol but for now the gallon of methanol i bought many years ago is still lasting me
I only but the methyl-hydrate by the liter. It is likely more cost effective to buy it here by the 4L jug. The marine denatured ethanol does burn hotter and cleaner but is also harder to find and a bit more expensive. I use them both but do prefer the ethanol. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft indeed harder to find and more than double the cost of meth unfortunately because it has all those good properties you mentioned and burns a bit longer than meth from what ive seen and can def be used indoors,,the other day i was trying a test with 99% iso and it lasted almost 2 min more than meth without any smoke or toxic fumes but i still would not use it on my cooking stove and still question if its food safe? burns hotter than meth and eth too,,but it does soot the bottom of a pan i would think even though i did not notice any smoke or sooth on my test and it had a very long flame,,maybe because its almost pure?
@@ARCSTREAMS why assume that a long flame is pure? At the beginning of the video, when the three fuels were lit, what I imagined that I was seeing was a clean blue flame on the left, and two tall, orange, 'dirty' flames in the middle, and on the right. subjective, no?
@@MrNetnic hmm i don't remember why i said this at the time ,maybe the longer flame i was thinking was more useful to cover the underneath of a pan? and no smoke or less indictates better burn
All ethanol is "bio" (alcohol distilled from yeast/carbohydrate interaction.) Do you perhaps mean biodiesel? Everything I've read recommends never using petroleum based fuels in alcohol stoves; not sure if that would extend to biodiesel made from waste cooking oils. I've been distilling my own fuel ethanol for years now and regularly use roughly E90 for all of my motors and camp stoves.
As was mentioned. All alcohols are created through distillation of fermented organic materials making them "bio" by nature. The stuff I used in this video states it was made from corn. Could you be thinking of something else?
@@tonysmith5077 My Trangia burns hot and clean on the ethanol, with no residue, no soot, and blue or practically invisible flames. No crazy odors either. Works well for me.
good test, I use the CTC methyl hydrate, the yellow bottle of Heet is gas line anti-freeze so you could get that at CTC but not under the Heet name, Heet also has a red bottle which is fuel injector cleaner, if it's OK with you here is a video from Canadian outdoor equipment co. on there test of fuels here in Canada for alcohol stoves ua-cam.com/video/yQ3VEwCDhS0/v-deo.html but I still like your comparison tests always interesting
Tim at Canadian Outdoor Equipment is good people. He sells the good stuff. I try to buy from him when I can afford it. I'll watch his video. Thanks for commenting
Hello Mark, I was just researching fuels for alcohol stoves and I came across a site called Minibulldesign.com. He is into these alcohol stoves and equipment in depth. A fuel he recommennds in his FAQ zone is Air Brake Antifreeze just behind Heet. The cost a Canadian Tire is 9$ for 3.8 liters, 133 ounces.. Just a heads up... wonder if you have heard of this..
Hi John. I know of MiniBuild designs. He has been around for a long time and very much into ultralight gear. I have used gas line antifreeze but not air-brake line antifreeze. I will give it a look and see how it compares against methyl-hydrate. Thanks for commenting
listen to your video again ... and notice that you put more sea alcohol than methyl hydrate in your measuring cup ..(4.34 and 7.24) I stay and prefer methyl hydrate ... because it comes much hotter and something by the way .. don't wait for its' 'bloom' '.. before putting your pan ... its the mistake that everyone makes, turn on, put your pan..and you will see that its going' 'bloom' 'faster.
Other than measuring the weights of stove with alcohol I came as close as possible by eye. The video may not appear as accurate. Even if there was a difference in amounts it would not change boil time, only efficiency in terms of how much was needed to bring water to a boil. In reality, I place my pot over the stove as soon as it is lit so as not to waste heat/fuel but for consistency when testing I wait till the bloom occurs. I continue to use methyl hydrate as it is much cheaper than marine ethanol.
Thank you. Much appreciated from your neighbour in Ontario.
Most welcome from the east coast
I liked how you measured just a tad more marine alcohol to see if viewers were really paying close attention & to elicit comments about the video. Very clever!
😉
Thanks for the video :).
I was just thinking that you could have used a scale to measure how much was left in the Trangia burner after each burn.
I don't mean this in a corrective manner, just a small observation. All in all, YOU are the one actually doing stuff to help everyone viewing, including yourself.
That aside, another great video and thanks a bunch! :)
Good point. I honestly didn't consider either trying to recover the alcohol or in anyway measure it until I realized how much was left in the burner. Weighing the burner before and after would have been the easiest and most accurate as well. I am happy if this helps anyone in any way. Thank you
I've put off getting an alcohol stove just because I don't want to have to deal with a toxic (on some level) liquid. But if I DO get one, I will stick with the Marine alcohol. Thank you for such a well-thought-out test. Hope you're doing well!
Doing quite well. Thank you for asking. I also feel better from a safety standpoint using the marine alcohol. Thanks for commenting
I could listen to this Canadian all day. Ever thought about doing some audio books? Apparently it’s good money…narration of educational videos???
Thank you for your kind words. I am just enjoying retirement having fun in the woods
Another nice video, thanks for sharing Mark, I use denatured ethanol by Bio Flame, it says on the bottle it doesn't emit harmful fumes. Hope it's going well and hope to see you soon my friend. ATB, Paul.
Hi Paul. I just found the Bio Flame at Canadian Tire. Looks very much like the marine alcohol and around the same price. Thanks for commenting
Sorry to revive an old comment, but I was curious- how well does Bio Flame burn? I've read that it's very sooty because of the added Isopropanol. Wanted to hear of your experience with it.
Is denatured ethanol different from denatured alcohol? Is it safer?
Is it safer than the marine?
An availability comment, methyl hydrate is also available at most heavy truck facilities including truck stops, as it is commonly used as air line antifreeze. I haven't bought any for a few years, but I imagine CTC has a much better price.
Thanks for producing the video, I've had one of those little stoves for years and will soon be putting it to use at my cabin, so your test came in quite handy for me.
Yes, I have used gas-line antifreeze as well. Canadian Tire or Kent or Home Depot all have the methyl-hydrate quite cheap. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Gas line antifreeze is all HEET is. You may not be able to get HEET, but if you're using gas line antifreeze, you're using the same stuff.
I use methylated spirit which is about $4.50 per litre here in Western Australia. Thanks for the interesting experiment.
BTW I like when you say “Stand by”
I have also heard it referred to by our UK brothers as just "meths". I think the "stand by" must come from my policing days...never gave it much though before. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft A little late to the party but I too use methylated spirit (10% water) in my stoves. Really good heat and the water mix keeps the burn very clean.
Great initial test (that I'm just getting to now) Mark. I have a minor theory. Because the marine alcohol burned cleaner and the plume seemed much more robust, I'm wondering if a slight height adjustment might be needed to get the most out of the burn... sort of a new "sweet spot" for a cleaner burning product. Just a thought.
Yes, I think you are right on. It would take some experimenting to see what height would be optimal. Issue is many stove setups are at a fixed height so the challenge would be finding or putting together other setups. Thanks for commenting
With everything going on in the world this kind of knowledge could turn out to be very important.
I dug up and dusted off my Swedish(?) milsurp trangia alcohol stove that I bought decades ago to see if using 70% vs 90+% iso alcohol made a difference. the 90+% stuff lights up easier and burns a bit better but I'd use whatever was available if it were an emergency situation which is why I got it in the 1st place.
Good to know. I have not used iso much as getting the 90% here is a bit harder. I will have to do some testing. Thanks for commenting
I got the Canadian tire stuff too (found it in the paint section), the price is right and I have it on standby for camping and my emergency kit (for outside use only).
Pretty much all I use now as it is so much cheaper than the marine alcohol. Thanks for commenting
As a long time methyl hydrate user I was a bit concerned to think that toxic effects could come about from skin exposure. I only have one liver and I would like to keep it as healthy as I can for as long as I need it. I did some research on my own and I am very grateful I did. Now I don't ever plan to bathe in the stuff but I will be much more careful in the future and avoid getting this on my skin. I was not aware of the problem with fumes from burning it in an enclosed space! So this was well worth my time to investigate. Thank you again, Mark.
I found what looks like the best stuff at Canadian Tire yesterday. They sell a product called Bio-Flame in the wood stove section. It is supposed to be 95% ethanol 5% propanol and is intended for indoor alcohol fire places. Thanks for commenting
I did some research on this fuel, it looks good. The CT down the road has it too. Let us know how it works Mark.
Thank you for the clear demonstration and explanation. I value your recommendations🙂
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for commenting
Great presentation. I wonder if the marine alcohol needs to be farther away from the burner for optimum efficiency. That said it would have the much faster to justify the cost difference.
Just a suggestion: if a trangia were weighed when empty and was weighed after each test the difference in weight would be the amount of unused fuel.
You could be right. There are a few variables I could still test but as you say, there is a significant cost difference between the fuels. I am using methyl hydrate exclusively now. It suits my needs. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark. I hope you are doing well! What I use in my alcohol stoves and my cigarette lighters is 91% isopropyl alcohol which is 21% stronger then regular rubbing alcohol is 70% strong. It burns almost as hot as HEET but cost a lot less. A 16 oz of 91% isopropyl alcohol cost about a $1.00 more then the 70% alcohol at a Drug store or Walmart. Try it and see how you like it!
PS Maybe try a cheap Vodka which is even a higher proof and you can also drink it to warm you up inside!!! ;-) May GOD Bless you and yours
I heard the same thing about isopropyl alcohol...very efficient and safe
I am doing pretty good. Only minor side-effects from the chemo so far. Not sure if we can get the 91% isopropyl here in Canada but I will look for it to test. I know the lower percentage has a lot of water in it causing it to burn cooler and smoky.. Thanks for commenting
wait you actually use it instead of zippo lighter fluid for your cigarette lighter and it works well? dont it dry up much faster? and why not get 99% instead? for lighter ok but i would never use iso fro cooking stove,,always better to use ethanol or methanol if that is all there is available,,also iso leaves dirty gunk specially if its not totally pure
@@mountaingator001 no vodka is gonna be higher proof than even the lowest alc say 70% acl/vol ,,most vodkas will be 40-50% at most
Personally, I'll keep happily using the meth hydrate :0)
Ya know. If folks would actually take a look at a material data sheet for the meth-hydrate, along with the sheets for unleaded gasoline, fingernail polish removal, and say something like ammonia...
This meltdown over the dangers of one compared to another is silly. Imo.
Don't huff it. Don't drink it, dont get it on your skin, don't breath the fumes.
Just like alcohol, gasoline, or cleaners.
Gee whiz.
Great vid! 😄
Thanks Randal. I agree. Use it outdoors and don't get it on your skin.
thumb up...you right...
Very very interesting tests Mark. First the same bottle of methyl hydrate is sold 6.99$ here in Québec at my local Rona Hardware store and I don't know where I can get the other one for boat. I have try to find some éthanol without success but it is know to give more out put than méthanol. As a lean 6sigma blackbelt I am always amused when I see people doing test and making only one sample trial to draw some kind of conclusion. To me a minimum of 30 samples for both tests bring some more accurate data to be able to compare. That said for me when it comes to fuel for alcohol stoves there is few points that I take in consideration. The amount needed to acheive my cooking needs, Time needed is a less important factor as I am there to enjoy not to speed 😉 ; the price and the avaibility are also very important and finally the behavior under real Life in the outdoors conditions. Sometimes what seems to behave very good in a controled environment not necessairely behave the same once out in the Woods. Your point on health is probably the most important but any kind of fuel at one point or another brings some health drawback. Canister stoves , white gas stoves, alcohol stoves and even wood stoves have some so it's difficult to make a good choice but your point maybe help to make a better one. Hummm what difficult choice😉
Thanks Laurent. I am the first to admit that my test was less than scientific and should not be relied upon. Since that test I did use the marine alcohol in the same stove while in the woods on a cooler, windier day. It worked but flared up a lot. I do prefer to use liquid fuel for a few reasons, primarily I believe it has a lesser carbon footprint than canister gasses. Also, I dislike the noise of canister stoves. In the end, my test and all the other available information is just "fuel" for thought. Thanks for commenting
Mark Young i fully agree with you Mark I don’t like canister stoves for the exact same reasons 👍 Sometimes I like to use my very old white gas burner ( an old czechoslovakia army roarer little stove) but my to go remains the fancyfeast/ tomatoes paste cans stove. Since I have discovered it it’s my favorite specially in winter.
Hi mark i use fondue fuel works very well for $2.99 for half a litre burns nicely in my trangia.
Interesting. I tried some bargain fondue fuel It sputtered and left a mess inside the Trangia. May try some better stuff. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft i buy that fuel at canadian tire.
I love your channel! Thanks for the video.
Thank you for your kind words
Thanks again for your excellent comparison and review. I just bought a Trangia I was surprised my 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol- I happen to have a couple bottles extra of late 🤔😳😷 - wouldn’t light at about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. Would 99% light better with a little colder temps? I didn’t think I needed a warmer at mid 30’s 🤔🙏👍
I haven't played with iso much as it is a little hard to get above 70% around here. I need to look harder and try it more. Thanks for commenting
Your 91% rubbing alcohol is 9% water. Since alcohol is hypotonic, it absorbs water from the air. If your 91% is old, it might be as low as 80% by now. I wouldn't think that would be a big deal, but apparently it is. 99% alcohol should be only 1% water, and a much better performer in near-freezing temps.
Great comparison, Mark; all I use is Methal Hydrate always outdoors & 4 a 4lit. cont. on sale @ C.T. 4= $9:99 I'll stick with it Thanks for the test ATB Ter God Bless
I have a couple of litres I need to use up as well. As you say, if you use it outdoors and are careful not to get it on your hands, you reduce the risk considerably. Thanks for commenting
great video mark. The lack of avl fuel sources kept me from getting an alcohol stove for about 20 years. Now I use the methyl hydrate as well. It is 11 bucks for 3.78 ltrs at Canadian Tire. Might have to start making moon shine, if I want a food grade alcohol. lol
The methyl hydrate from Canadian Tire is all I ever used until recently. Next time I need fuel I might try the Bio Flame from Canadian Tire. It is listed as 95% ethanol. That way I can save the moonshine for "other purposes". Thanks for commenting
Thank you for your informative video.
Something I am wondering is?
If their is a little more marine alcohol left over, and plus a little less time required for boiling two cups of water which is not significant for a roughly seven and half minute time;
However if a person had to boil rice or beans or had to heat a camper for hours,
Well then the seconds could turn into significantly more burn time as well as significantly less fuel burned as well.
What I am wondering is it could be quite beneficial over time as well as the health factor which is very important.
Would it be safe to burn that little stove for hours in a camper so long as a wi did was cracked?
All things considered, I like using the marine alcohol except for the cots of buying it. I cannot guarantee safety but I can say it is used aboard yachts to cook with. Hope this helps
If you want to forget all the worries about any added chemicals it will cost more but is safe. Use 190 proof Everclear or in my case here in Florida I use the 153 proof Diesel brand of food grade alcohol. Open areas I use denatured alcohol and in sheltered areas the food grade alcohol. The other advantage of the food grade , if you are brave enough it can be consumed or used as a disinfectant on injuries.
I'm jealous. We can't get Everclear in Canada. Thanks for commenting
Seems the difference in performance is negligible between the two. I would ad that if you buy methyl hydrate in 4liter containers from Canadian tire I think it is about $10 so roughly 1/3 the cost of marine alcohol.
I've not experimented with marine fuel, but I have tried some others. I've even experimented with blending fuels. The best results that I have come up with are a blend of 60%methyl hydrate and 40% "blue flame" fondue fuel ( sold at Canadian tire as well for approx $4/ half liter). Some fuels burn hotter but for me the criteria was cleanest burning (including no flare ups) and last amount of fuel used to boil a given amount of water. With this mixture, my diy double wall soda can design boils 500ml (2 cups) of room temp water in 4 1/2 min using about 20ml (2/3oz)of fuel.
Wow, you have done some extensive testing with impressive results. I am considering doing some blends myself as well as tests with jelled fuel, fondue fuel and 90% isopropyl alcohol. I have also started considering how different stove design would perform with the different fuels. My main users are the ALOCS, a DIY double wall similar to yours and a fancy feast style wick stove. If I can get anywhere near your results I will be happy. Thanks for commenting
Mark Young I was bored at home almost bed ridden with shingles at the time. There's obviously still some variables that I haven't been able to eliminate in my experiments though because when I tried to replicate that stove the boil times went as high as 6 min. I played with hike sizes and hole positions as well as different types of soda cans.
Mark, that sounds extremely interesting. Kindly keep us posted. I have read that a blend of equal parts methanol and 91percent Isopropyl alcohol burns soot free and is safer and cheaper as well.
Good comparison Mark, thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed Jackie
Thank you for the test, Mark. I do have some methyl hydrate, but I am going to look for some Heet.
Glad you enjoyed and thanks for commenting
its the same thing,,you are better off using the pure methyl rather than the heet with is methyl but with proprietary additive(s) so they can sell it for more
Thanks, Mark. Another well done report.
Glad you enjoyed sir
When I first got my Trangia stove nearly 20 years ago, I did a similar test. I found that the methyl hydrate did actually boil the water a bit faster. This was confusing to me, since I had previously learned that ethanol has more heat per unit volume than methanol. A year or two ago, I did a bit of research to try and find out the reasons behind the discrepancy. It turns out that methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol. This means that you will use more methanol, but it will boil water a bit faster. This might matter to hikers, but not to car or boat campers.
This is most interesting. I was not aware of that. I would think for hikers fuel efficiency is most important so they don't carry more weight than they need or run out too soon. For me it would be dollar value. I like the ethanol but it is many times more expensive than the methanol. Thanks my friend
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Somehow, I ended up with a lot of methanol, so that's what I use. I was actually glad it worked so well, due to cost difference.
I believe the Canadian methyl alcohol is the UK methylated spirits, which is 90% ethanol and 10% methanol (plus colourings and flavourings. Both products you tested should be substantially the same chemically. You mentioned turning the extractor fan on. Could that be the reason for the flaring?)
Hi Tom. You are correct in that the UK methylated spirits is the same as denatured alcohol and the marine alcohol I tested. Although, the ratio of methyl hydrate to ethanol can vary between manufactures. The methyl hydrate I used and is common around here is 99.9% pure with no ethanol. I don't think either the range hood or open window had enough force to cause the marine alcohol to flare up. I am now wondering if it has something to do with being used in a "pressurized" stove. On board ships/boats it is used in a wick type stove. I think I just may have to test this theory. Thanks for commenting
Methyl hydrate cas # 67-56-1. Methylated spirits is cas # 9003-99-0.Dentures alcohol cas # 64-17-5
You mention Heet and talk about Methl Hydrate. From reading the contents on a Heet bottle I see that it "contains Methyl Alcohol". Is Methl Alcohol the same as Methl Hydrate or are they different? Does your discussion apply to Heet?
Yes, methyl-hydrate and methyl alcohol are the same thing. We do not have Heat available to us in Canada so I purchase unbranded methyl-hydrate at a local hardware store. From what I understand, Heat is available in two types "yellow" bottle is methyl-hydrate and the "red" bottle is isopropyl alcohol. Hope this helps
@@MarkYoungBushcraft That is very helpful. Thanks.
Thanks for the video well done. I suspect the stove you ave has been optimized to burn methyl hydrate (methanol) and so the better results. Ethanol is a more energy dense fuel than methanol so it will burn hotter if the stove is designed for it. Burning isopropl in a stove not optimized will result in soot. If you are using a jet stove you might not want to burn isopropyl as you will clog your jet holes. Canadian Tire has a Motomaster branded Premium Fuel Line Antifreeze sold in a black litre bottle. This is denatured Alcohol it is ethanol probably 95% and the remaining 5% is pure isopropyl. This fuel is impressive, in a small tomato paste tin stove in which I was using methanol I was able to boil a litre of cold tap water in just over 13 minutes with 40 ml of methanol but with the same stove and the motomaster fuel line antifreeze I was able to boil a litre of cold tap water in 10 minutes with less than 30 ml. Very hot very clean very blue burning and I am at just over 3000 ft elevation.
Canadian Tire Motomaster Premium Fuel Line Antifreeze #038-2332-0 one litre . You might want to give this very clean energy rich fuel a try in your stove.
www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-premium-gas-line-antifreeze-1l-0382332p.html They also sell this in 150ml six pack packs.
Great information on using different fuels in different stoves. I happen to have some of the Canadian Tire gas-line antifreeze I was going to use in one of my stoves. Tell me more about your tomato paste can stove. Is it a wick stove, low pressure or high pressure stove?
the stove I am experimenting with now is based upon this design ua-cam.com/video/DcUKaHoYEUU/v-deo.html though I am using in this case a much smaller can size. (small tomato paste tin 156ml size a 53ml redbull can would work. I am using 24 top jets 9/64" dia and 5 lower inlet jet holes starting at 11/64" hen worked up larger. A taller tin that permis the 60mm gap/distance between the jets (lower and upper) will draft better. I just wanted to play with a very small tin for this project. Hope this helps and is of interest. thanks for the great video.
I suppose that designing a stove to be efficient enough to burn iso alcohol is a good plan as it is so widely available and is cheap. It might also be good with other fuels but watch out for heat in the stove. The nice thing about the original design video I attached is that you can also burn charcoal in it as it is a steel can and will take the heat where an aluminum can will not and will melt on you. This is a very interesting hobby and provides lots of things to think about and to tinker with.
If you cant the loser holes so the air intake will generate a good swirl or vortex this will help to make for a hotter pre heat to the gas and with iso will make for less soot. in a shot can like the tomato paste can I am playing with now you might want to try more canted inlet holes of a smaller size that the original five at 11/64" dia. You can find calculators on line which will provide you with the area of assorted hole diameters so you can experiment with different numbers of jets while keeping the total air intake about the same.
Hi Mark...an enlightening test. I'm not sure what the difference between methyl hydrate and a purer form of methanol would be, but a possible source for about the purest methanol you'll find might be your local automotive speed shop (it's burned in fuel dragsters). But you'll probably have to bring your own container and buy it by the gallon.
Interesting. I will look into pure methanol. Cost will be a factor for me but I'll see what I can do. Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark, this is a very important topic. Due to health concerns, I am too uncertain about the best fuel. The Heet product you reference is extremely common in the USA and in the yellow bottle, its 100% methanol. It is designed for automotive industry as a gas line antifreeze. Please correct me if I am wrong about this,but isn't methyl hydrate also used similarly in Canada? And I believe both products are methanol, an extremely toxic substance, that will blind and kill you with less than one once of either indigestion or skin absorption. Great video ✔ ✔ ✔
Glad you enjoyed the video. Yes, methyl hydrate is the same as methanol. It is my understanding that gas line antifreeze is usually made from either methanol or isopropyl alcohol. I was under the impression that HEET is made from ethanol mixed with either methanol or isopropyl. I have heard it refered to denatured alcohol which is ethanol mixed with methanol. Any amount of methanol would be dangerous but the higher the percentage, the more dangerous. I would think, even the best fuel like the marine alcohol (90% ethanol) should probably be used outdoors for safety. Hope this helps
Mark, Thanks for your reply and helpful information. I just did some reading, to double check my memory. Heet comes in two variations. The Yellow bottle of Heet is only methanol and is intended as a gas line antifreeze for gasoline engines. The Red bottle of Heet is only isopropyl and is intended as a gas line antifreeze for diesel engines. As far as I know, ethanol is the cause of engine trouble and people go to great lengths to remove it from auto engines, thus it's not used in any antifreeze for fuel lines. I agree with you, at least in the USA, denatured alcohol is ethanol mixed with methanol, in order to poison it so that it's no longer consumable. Thus, excise tax is not applicable. In the USA, the ratio of ethanol to methanol in denatured alcohol is proprietary information to the manufacturer and is typically not fully disclosed. A very confusing topic indeed. As you probably know, prior to going on disability for MS, I worked as an Account. Accordingly, perhaps some of your viewers are chemists, having far greater knowledge than myself and will share with us. . . . I would also like to add that skin absorption of methanol is just as dangerous as ingestion.
B. Mann skin absorption is something that I'm always mindful of when using any of these products. I have squeeze bottles that are good at delivering the fuel precisely without dropping or leaking. They are the 60ml and 120ml bottles that "e-juice" is sold in. My friend "vapes" and saves his bottles for me. They also come in 10ml and 30ml size but I find these to small. I wear rubber gloves when blending and filling bottles.
Buck that sounds like a very practical set-up. I remember watching a video by "Shug" Sean Emory, where he details a very similar design. I would venture to guess that skin absorption is a very important topic and it is not fully appreciated by some. Great feedback!
The price for Sterno on Amazon seems competitive and you can bet that's not toxic. How does that compare with methyl hydrate and denatured acohol? Amazon also offers a gallon can of denatured alcohol for $15 (Klean-Strip GSL26 Denatured Alcohol, 1-Gallon (not prime))
The marine alcohol is also considered denatured by virtue of it being ethanol mixed with methanol. What I have also learned is that a lot of the denatured alcohol has higher percentage of methanol than the marine alcohol does. Not sure if we can get the Klean-Strip here in Canada but I will check. Thanks for commenting
Hi Jim, I just read that most varieties of chafing fuel actually are methanol. Only some of the new varieties are ethanol based. Except if you live in Pennsylvania, where I have read that methanol chafing fuel is not legal. Hope this helps.
I researched Sterno and found it is jellied ethanol that has been denatured with methanol. So yes, there is some methanol in Sterno although it is only about 10% to 15%.
I found that there is a Sterno product that is jelled methanol - Sterno Handy Fuel. The jelled ethanol is a hotter, longer-burning higher quality product.
Thanks Jim for the information. I have been looking into jelled fuel from Costco and its a great deal in USA, for 48 seven oz cans for $20. But they are only Methanol. I have to get some Sterno and then compare. Thanks again!
My thinking is health is the only thing that matters, the hick with the cost health is primary . Happy trails .
As a result of my cancer I finally understand the saying "If you have your health, you have everything you need". You don't really appreciate your health until its gone or being threatened. Thanks for commenting
Your attitude along with your treatment you will be fine . In all honestly I've never had a fire with anything other than wood or cow chips in all of my 74 years take care my friend . happy trails.
Good review on a good subject Mark. Well done and best regards -Yves
Thanks Yves. The topic has certainly generated a lot of conversation which is good
my soda can stove with 1 oz methanol bring 1 cup of water to a rolling boil at 3min 50 sec and i still have about 1/2oz fuel left,,not bad ,does that mean it should theoretically bring 2 cup to a boil in 7min 40 sec?,,,wondering if ethanol does any better,,i think even though only half an oz is being used for the job it is better to put in a full oz so the flame is not struggling,seems to do better when there is more than it needs
You are getting some great results. I have "played: with amounts and types of stoves and pots a bit. I am not expert (Hiram Cook) by any means. I can say the ethanol does burn hotter with a larger flame. I feel a larger diameter pot benefits more from the ethanol because of the flame spread. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft indeed i get different results too depending on pot size and type ,environment control etc etc
Question: isnt just common alcohol (Ethanol 96%) publicly available in north america? The basic one, used also as medical supply... is available almost anywhere from drugstores to supermarkets in Argentina. Is not the same overthere? Greetings, thanks for the video!
At least here in Canada we cannot buy pure ethanol without a doctors perscription. It has to be adulterated with methanol to deter consumption. I am not sure about the US. Thanks for commenting
I know that this is 3 years late on the video, but I wanted to give a quick answer from the US side of the border.
High proof ethanol is sold as Everclear brand in the US. 190 proof (95% abv) is legal in about half of the states. In the other states (like mine) the highest proof legally available is 151 (75.5% abv). Both bottles usually cost ~$20usd for 750ml. That puts them at $0.80 for 30ml.
The 75.5% version is adulterated with water to lower the proof and doesn't burn very well as a result.
Yellow bottle Heet is pretty close to the methyl hydrate Mark used in this test and costs ~$1.50usd for 355ml or $0.13 per 30ml. Much cheaper and more widely available at any gas station, auto supply, hardware store, or mega retailer.
Denatured alcohol (marine fuel) is commonly available in hardware stores for ~$7.00 for 946ml or $0.22 per 30ml. Slightly more expensive than methanol, but still close to 1/4 the price of pure grain alcohol. Both of these options are much easier to find as well.
Hope this info was helpful!
@@nvalley Thanks a lot for the very detailed answer! Pretty much explains many of the questions I had about it.
@@Novack_ basically in the US pure Ethanol that hasn’t been “Denatured” (adding methanol to make it toxic), gets taxed as an alcoholic beverage. This makes it significantly more expensive than Methanol, or Methylated Spirit.
If you watch your video, you will see that you put more marine alcohol into your stove than you put methyl hydrate. I suggest that you get a scale and tare weight the container, then you can measure the remaining fuel.
Great suggestion. Thanks for commenting
That's what I said too.
Try using 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, it is inexpensive and boils 16 oz. of water in about 7 mins. Cost is about .98 cents USD in Walmart for a 16oz bottle.
I will try the 91% Isopropyl. Not sure what the cost is here in Canada. Thanks for commenting
why 91? i can easly find 99% at most drugshops but i would never use iso for this
There's also that blue fondue burner fuel... which I think is mostly methanol and I think it's intended to be burned inside... so I don't think the combustion products are too dangerous. I think ethanol, like your marine stove fuel, has more energy per gram than the methanol, so for the real weight conscious that could be the determining factor. Of course, we Canadians can't use the Everclear that the Americans can since we can't buy drinkable ethanol with that high a concentration.
We Canadians would probably drink the Everclear if it was available to us😬. I have tried inexpensive fondue fuel in the past and found it burned cool, smokey and stained my stove blue. I haven't tried better quality stuff but you are right when you say it is intended for indoor use so how bad can it be. Thanks for commenting
If you had a small digital kitchen scale, you could have weighed the 1 oz fuel, or weighed the stove with the fuel when you began, and weighed it afterwards to determin how much fuel was consumed - also weighing the 1 oz. of fuel may have helped, as a comparison.
Right on. I agree I could have been a lot more precise about it. Thanks for commenting
Mark, it suddenly occurred to me that you've never reviewed the Trangia range, specifically the 27 and larger 25. This is bushcraft blasphemy! I've tried to email you with no success and I don't do Facebook. Even today they are a viable option, offering storm proof cooking in a variety of materials. As Canada has a similar climate to Sveeeden do you not think it is worth a look? Good reviews which I always check before making a purchase. Paul
I do have a 25 set I picked up second hand and am planning a review of it in comparison with a competitor. Thanks for commenting
Good information, Thank you
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for commenting
7min 30sec not 34sec so about 15 sec faster than mthyl but not a big deal,still better over all with a bit more fuel and safer to use indoors
Right on. Basically my conclusions but this is true only for this stove/pot combination. I do prefer the ethanol over the methyl-hydrate but it is harder to find and cost a bit more. Thanks for commenting
Nice vid Mark thanks for the share
Thanks Chris
Would the health benefits be lessened in an outdoor situation? Also, the marine alcohol may be better in a windy environment with the bigger flame. Like you say, I suspect the advantages would not be significant enough to give one an advantage over the other. Are we nit picking or what...just get out and explore!
I would think the methanol / methyl hydrate is probably safe if used outdoors and don't get it on your hands. I have used the marine alcohol in the woods and found it still flamed up a lot but worked just fine. You are so right...lets just get out and have some fun in the woods exploring
I think if used outdoors, the problems with breathing the methanol fumes are cut down significantly (I'm assuming no one's stupid enough to actually consume it). My problem with methanol is always the absorption through skin contact. You've always got to transfer fuel from the original container, either into a smaller container to take with you or directly from the original container into the stove. The one-liter bottle Mark showed in the video is really too large to take on a hike for me, so I'd want to transfer it to t a smaller 2 - 4 oz bottle, and then you have the problem with spills, leaks, etc. that give you the skin contact. You're best off wearing non-permeable gloves to do that part if you can. Skin contact exposure (probably) won't kill you outright, but repeated exposure probably isn't very good for you, especially if you've got a compromised immune system. Manufacturers don't like to put warnings like that on products unless they have to, so there probably is some toxicity in any exposure. I use denatured alcohol in my stove, not sure of the exact percentages but 90 - 95% ethanol with enough methanol to make it poisonous if consumed. It's more expensive, but it's worth the price for my peace of mind. But then, I'm not out in the wild as often a you folks probably are, so it could get expensive with constant usage.
Nice comparison!
Glad you enjoyed
Hé ! Merci beaucoup!
De rien. Merci d'avoir commenté
91% alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol works great...trangia says to add 10% water to your methylated spirits so 91% alc is fine
I usually use moths. Have not had good performance with iso. Thanks for commenting
why do they say to add water along with methyl? also i think iso should not be used for stoves like this or cooking and its dirty too
Mark, yellow heat is 95% methanol, AKA methyl hydrate, same thing / meme chose. Look for the declaration of percentage .
would be great but we can't get Heat here
better off with 99% pure methyl hydrate without paying for the name brand and extra unknown additives only used to sell a name brand so they can say its not juts pure methanol for the sucker consumer
I noticed that there was more than a 1oz of the Marine fuel.
thanks for commenting
Why do none of these tests on UA-cam show the resulting soot produced by these fuels? Soot residue is important when it comes both to health and cleanup. ; )
Neither of these fuels produce soot. I have heard UK people say their's do but no one in North America experiences this that I know of. I can only assume that there is an additive to UK meths that causes soot
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Thanks. I've used alcohol stoves with 91% isopropyl alcohol (U.S.) and the soot production was awful.
@@Wishbringer7 Ahh...okay, I have not played with isopropyl yet
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Isopropyl is nastee. The soot output is really thick, nasty and nearly impossible to clean. I tested Denatured (thanks for the tip!) and it worked dandy.. and faster. : ) I boiled a cup of ice-cold water in less than 3 minutes on a fraction of an ounce of alcohol and it burned super-clean with zero odor. (Three minutes is as fast as my Mr. Coffee electric Espresso maker, so that's plenty fast... a good "cooking" flame). I think that will be my fuel of choice because no fumes, no soot, and takes minimal fuel. I tested with a standard stove almost exactly like you used in the video... and even after the fuel was dumped and the burner "empty"... I lit it to see how long it would burn. It burned nearly 5 minutes. That's pretty decent burn results. And of course denatured alcohol is available just about anywhere and easy to carry. : )
95% Ethanol can be purchased at Canadian Tire. They use isopropynol as the denaturing agent. It goes by the name of Bioflame and is used in fireplaces. It's slightly cheaper per gallon at $25.99 than Captain Fhab at $27. Ethanol should have about 1/3 more energy than methyl hydrate.
Opps, I see another poster showed you the path to the Bioflame fuel - guess I should have read all the posts first.
No worries my friend. I actually found the Bioflame my self after posting this video. You are correct, the ethanol should produce more heat as well as be cleaner and therefore safer to use. I did find it produced a little more heat but not significant. In fact in a cost-efficiency comparison it does not do as well as methyl hydrate. I still like using it just the same
I found that ethanol burns hotter and faster (they key being faster). The amount left over after the burn was not generally a good indicator of the difference. On my home grown alcohol burner, the ethanol flame was more vigorous and higher in controlled conditions but more of the flame was going up the sides of the pot than with methyl hydrate, thus reducing the effectiveness. A different burner may have had different results, but in real world conditions with the wind blowing ethanol proves to be useful.
Good summary of what I experienced as well. Thanks
Canadian Tire also sell a Premium Fuel line Antifreeze which is 95% Ethanol and 5% Isopropyl in one litre bottles superb fuel.
@@Roarmeister2 it seems there are two products,the one you mentioned and an anti line freeze one,,,but the one you mention do you have a link to that or item number or exact name of the product so i can look it up?
thank you good video
Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft you welcome, thank you for making the vids
No heet available in saskatchewan
None here either. Thanks for commenting
Non in Ontario 😭
Heet is a waste of money because you are paying for brand name and its basically methanol with additives,,much better to buy that methyl hydrate you are showing wich is the base ingredient in Heet and larger quantity at cheaper price,,i would prefer to use ethanol if i can find it here in toronto,perhaps i need to look at places that sell for motorboats maybe like a Sail store? i can not find it in any hardware store,however i have been using methyl hydrate at 10 bucks a gallon so very good deal,perhaps its more expensive in nova scotia? aside from being safer ethanol has a higher BTU than methanol but for now the gallon of methanol i bought many years ago is still lasting me
I only but the methyl-hydrate by the liter. It is likely more cost effective to buy it here by the 4L jug. The marine denatured ethanol does burn hotter and cleaner but is also harder to find and a bit more expensive. I use them both but do prefer the ethanol. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft indeed harder to find and more than double the cost of meth unfortunately because it has all those good properties you mentioned and burns a bit longer than meth from what ive seen and can def be used indoors,,the other day i was trying a test with 99% iso and it lasted almost 2 min more than meth without any smoke or toxic fumes but i still would not use it on my cooking stove and still question if its food safe? burns hotter than meth and eth too,,but it does soot the bottom of a pan i would think even though i did not notice any smoke or sooth on my test and it had a very long flame,,maybe because its almost pure?
@@ARCSTREAMS why assume that a long flame is pure? At the beginning of the video, when the three fuels were lit, what I imagined that I was seeing was a clean blue flame on the left, and two tall, orange, 'dirty' flames in the middle, and on the right. subjective, no?
@@MrNetnic hmm i don't remember why i said this at the time ,maybe the longer flame i was thinking was more useful to cover the underneath of a pan? and no smoke or less indictates better burn
Anyone tried using bioethanol in their alcohol stoves? Let me know on your thoughts.
All ethanol is "bio" (alcohol distilled from yeast/carbohydrate interaction.) Do you perhaps mean biodiesel? Everything I've read recommends never using petroleum based fuels in alcohol stoves; not sure if that would extend to biodiesel made from waste cooking oils. I've been distilling my own fuel ethanol for years now and regularly use roughly E90 for all of my motors and camp stoves.
@@PSPSMITH2022 no I dont mean biodiesel. Thanks for the info. Do your stoves run ok on ethanol?
As was mentioned. All alcohols are created through distillation of fermented organic materials making them "bio" by nature. The stuff I used in this video states it was made from corn. Could you be thinking of something else?
@@MarkYoungBushcraft yeah I could be getting confused with something else
@@tonysmith5077 My Trangia burns hot and clean on the ethanol, with no residue, no soot, and blue or practically invisible flames. No crazy odors either. Works well for me.
good test, I use the CTC methyl hydrate, the yellow bottle of Heet is gas line anti-freeze so you could get that at CTC but not under the Heet name, Heet also has a red bottle which is fuel injector cleaner, if it's OK with you here is a video from Canadian outdoor equipment co. on there test of fuels here in Canada for alcohol stoves ua-cam.com/video/yQ3VEwCDhS0/v-deo.html but I still like your comparison tests always interesting
Tim at Canadian Outdoor Equipment is good people. He sells the good stuff. I try to buy from him when I can afford it. I'll watch his video. Thanks for commenting
Hello Mark, I was just researching fuels for alcohol stoves and I came across a site called Minibulldesign.com. He is into these alcohol stoves and equipment in depth. A fuel he recommennds in his FAQ zone is Air Brake Antifreeze just behind Heet. The cost a Canadian Tire is 9$ for 3.8 liters, 133 ounces.. Just a heads up... wonder if you have heard of this..
Hi John. I know of MiniBuild designs. He has been around for a long time and very much into ultralight gear. I have used gas line antifreeze but not air-brake line antifreeze. I will give it a look and see how it compares against methyl-hydrate. Thanks for commenting
listen to your video again ... and notice that you put more sea alcohol than methyl hydrate in your measuring cup ..(4.34 and 7.24)
I stay and prefer methyl hydrate ... because it comes much hotter
and something by the way .. don't wait for its' 'bloom' '.. before putting your pan ... its the mistake that everyone makes, turn on, put your pan..and you will see that its going' 'bloom' 'faster.
Other than measuring the weights of stove with alcohol I came as close as possible by eye. The video may not appear as accurate. Even if there was a difference in amounts it would not change boil time, only efficiency in terms of how much was needed to bring water to a boil. In reality, I place my pot over the stove as soon as it is lit so as not to waste heat/fuel but for consistency when testing I wait till the bloom occurs. I continue to use methyl hydrate as it is much cheaper than marine ethanol.
Your methyl hydrate is 99.85% methanol. HEET from the USA is 99.9% methanol. In other words, your methyl hydrate is the same thing as HEET.
Thanks for commenting