Glad you enjoyed it! Michael is a big sylvaneth fan and it was his main GT army for 3rd. Still finding legs with them in 4th but this was a big step in the right direction
Hmm were imo more durable last edition. Now less saves, less wards. Major exception shooting as hiding inside trees makes you immune until shoot 12w 4+ 5+++ Even seed of rebirth isn't as big help as before. Now you don't come alive end of phase so you can be killed same phase and just 1w left vs d3. Not saying sylvaneth bad but durability isnt imo that spectacular. Plenty of good tricks if you get spells off(luckily shutting down magic hard this edition. Magic shut down, sylvaneth in trouble)
i think the big boost in durability was using the body guard rule to reduce attacks. and the lords of the clan to max out the healing. really made things feel alot stronger
I think you missed a whopping 24 attacks with the brutes into durthu... 25 attacks would've been from 4 of them and the champ at 6 attacks a piece, you had 24 more dice to resolve from the other 4 brutes.
It was a ton of a attacks to miss, and it kinda caused a weird ripple effect with durthu living. This is why we retroed it so that Durthu "used" seed of rebirth to spot himself from dying. This doesnt fix it perfectly but gets us back to the same game state
hi guys, even though it's hard to win with Ironjawz at the moment... I love Ironjawz and think it's always good to see them in a battle report. Waaaaaagh!!!
Great report. The terrain piece Belthanos changes into a tree also becomes a place of power, so if Alarielle (or Warsong with spellsinger) is close enough you can get them to +2 on casts
Hi. Warsong will not get that bonus because is only a wyldwood for strike and fade, healing and movement phase teleport. For the rest of things is not considered an awakened wild wood, therefore the spellsinger is not activated
Huh? 21:16 David says 25 attacks for the unit of Brutes. 8 models 6 attacks each is 48 +1 champ. So he only did half the attacks? Durthu 100% shouldve been dead.
I think dave had a stroke halfway through that attack sequence. Once he realized it on the next turn it had gone to far to correct. We decided that the most fair result was to use the seed of rebirth which would save durthu and then move forward
I agree with your thoughts on the Ironjawz. Finding it hard to make a list that is survivable, especially for how expensive most of the units are at the moment.6
I did 5 games in a weekend with IJ and tweaked the list between games. An idea i came up with is to take Brutes in just 5 men squads and use them as kamikaze. They are soooo strong if buffed and die so easly after being charged that it just works. Take a couple of warchanter, a boss and a mage in the Subfaction with +8 charge bonus, and send 1 unit each turn to obliterate something. They can have +3/4 attacks, exploding hits, +1 charge and demage. They do 37! Damage to a 3+.. they are enough, and this way you have more shots at kill something. Here the list: Ork Foot 1980/2000 pts Orruk Warclans | Ironjawz | Ironjawz Brawl Drops: 4 Spell Lore - Lore of the Weird Prayer Lore - Warbeats Manifestation Lore - Forbidden Power General's Regiment Megaboss (210) • General • An' Eye For Da Fight • Trophy Skulls Brutes (200) Regiment 1 Weirdnob Shaman (130) Ardboyz (180) Brutes (200) Brutes (200) Regiment 2 Warchanter (120) Gore-gruntas (180) Gore-gruntas (180) Regiment 3 Warchanter (120) Brute Ragerz (130) Brute Ragerz (130) Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App App: 1.4.0 | Data: 181
@@ciaosonoAlbertoG it is certainly not easy but with MD they have 7" move, i take the manifestation for extra movment ability, i can teleport for a 9" charge and most of all screen with pig on objectives. The enemy has to kill them, Brutes just behind can charge in my turn. If you split them in 5 man units even if the opponent gets one on their charge there is another waiting.
@@BattleshockWargaming another tweak on the list is to put the Reagerz together in a 6 men units if you want more power and are ok with loosing screens. What you can do is to mess up turn 1 Battle Tactics. Deploy them in the middle near the big boss. They get a 4" redeploy + 3" MightyD and can counter charge 6" (they have run&charge) getting fight first in the enemy turn. So "take the center" is risky and "Take the flanks" can be messed up with a hand of gork on the pigs to screen out the side.
No shield bash on Balthanos and the Durthubefore fighting in round 1? :< (it's a combat ability). Also the Ardboyz no longer has musicians (the old models did though). Lastly didn't you forget all the extra hits from the brutes into the Durthu? You only mentioned 25 attacks initially? (edit: right saw the note now :p. Don't really get why you didn't just roll the remaining attacks to see if that would have killed Durthu and left the rest as is)
Got to remove those musicians from the unit, hadnt realized it got dropped when the new sculpts came out. It was a tricky spot to be in with dave forgetting half his attacks. it kinda caused a ripple effect of durthu being alive, killing pigs and generally running amuck. We thought at the time "using" seed of rebirth to stop durthu from dying to be the most fair way of resolving the error
We have done one KO game in 4th when we did our tour of the mortal realms. they are going to be back in rotation, just need to paint and add some new units to the collection
This went about as I expected with Sylvaneth being mobile monster heavy and having anti-charge infantry. With limited rend and hitting on 4s IJ need hero support, but the hero's buffs being the wholly within 12' and being mostly single turn buffs makes it frustrating at times.
Actually this brings up importat point. Manifestations can be picked as targets of enemy abilities that pick targets but aren't affected by enemy abilities that don't. Same for faction terrain. So both can be picked as target for say sword kurnoth mortal targets but aren't affected by purple sun's -1 save roll aura.
Give my trees a movement value of 1! OMG that would be amazing. then people couldnt slingshot charge through them. I could adjust them as the game move. then then give them like some terrible branch attacks lol now the trees really could charge you!
Ironjaws with Kragnos seem tobe the way to go currently The problem they have is that they suffer very much vs negative modifiers to hit which is why they struggle in the current meta, they also have low mobility which is a problem that Kraggy helps mitigate
IJ are rough right now, I honestly don't see them working wihtout Kragnos. Every time I build a list i end up cutting things until I can fit Kragnos and a Warchanter who imo is still just as mandatory as he was in the previous edition. Also don't play either of the big bosses, they are both point traps (obv for an "efficient" list, if you want to just have fun go ahead). The Ardboy BB does almost nothing, usually his abbilities come up once per game. The Brute BB is even worse, for his points you can just play another unit of Brutes. The Goregruntas are also pretty bad for their points, I'd suggest to replace them with the big pigs
The Brute boss gives +1 attack a turn on a 2+, that isn't bed. With the buffs to give a 4+ redeploy and counting 10von objectives did sone works on my games, because you can send him out a bit more compared to other more squishy heros. The pigs cost less than the big pig and you need something that can move/ be a screen
Think you’ve played as well as can be expected having Ironjaws. I’ve played about 6 games using comp lists and it’s the same result every time. Start of well but the units are way to expensive and we got to few models. 2x10 brutes and 2 x20 ardboys is good but then we have no pigs. And if you take pigs to play mission you more or less flush 380p down the drain because they die fast and usually doesn’t kill anything. Also being forced to have multiple regiments because of chars isn’t good either. IJ need to come down 2-300 points minimum. I know it sounds much but honestly to be on pair with A tier that’s needed. If you play big pigs it’s the same result, to few models and they die fast.
That moment when you say, they gunna roast me in the comments about not having a warchanter….then it literally would be the deciding factor in killing durthu with brutes 🤷
Love seeing Ironjawz on the table, but they simply aren't playing the same game as everyone else. Tough times right now. 20x Ardboy block with Zoggrok+Warchanter is nice. Gouger can score flanks then threaten a counter charge strike last combo - have found that allows Brutes to sometimes push through damage that they otherwise wouldn't have. I actually don't hate MSU Brutes with a reinforced unit of Ragerz. Brutes take forever to get to the fight, so investing 800 points into them and having them die before they make it up the table is feels bad. The best games I've had is leaving them on a home objective and then having You Messin' prevent enemy flankers from easily stealing it. Primal Energy is great for zoning out teleports almost exclusively because burning head casts on a 5. MK doesn't fit on the table. His (and Gordrakks) rules aren't terrible, but the base is simply too big. Megaboss on foot is my pet model but cannot compete with simply adding 5 more Brutes. Maybe at 160 he'd be worth (or 180 with +1 rend on profile).
The mega boss on foot does seem like a big points sink for someone who is just hanging out not doing much. I think next time trading him out for another support piece might be the ticket. Currently it does feel like pretty massive points reductions are needed. Being able to add 1 or two more units into this list would make up for its lack of hitting power
@@BattleshockWargaming I really don't hate the warscrolls as much as others have made out, but yeah the costing is a bit...off. I'd love the Megaboss to get the Brute keyword so he can get his own buff, and potentially an artifact that gives strike first so he can actually use it. Would also like to see him the the same weapon profile as the MK Megaboss (i.e. 2 rend). Obviously some way to play around -hit would be nice but not sure what form that would take. Lastly, Grunta weapon profile adjusted to 2 damage. It's still a Brute with a gore-hacka, I'm unsure why it gets worse when it's on the back of a giant running pig.
Really love to see sylvaneth in action. Thank you for the amazing report!
Glad you enjoyed it! Michael is a big sylvaneth fan and it was his main GT army for 3rd. Still finding legs with them in 4th but this was a big step in the right direction
You do the best Warhammer matches on UA-cam like the setup is great and the close up cameras everything is just perfect
Thank you so much what a wonderfully supportive comment
Great game! Love to see Ironjaws in action! :D
You and me both! WAAAAGH!
thanks for the video!
18:00 the new ardboyz dont have musicians on their warscroll.
Thanks for the comment, seriously didnt realize they pulled the musician with the updated sculpts going to have to rip some arms off some orks
Very cool Battle report
Thank you! Orruks vs Slyvaneth is usually a pretty bloody battle
Great game! Fantastic looking armies.
Thank you, we love both these armies and have so much fun when they make it to the table
good game! the sylvaneth seem really durable this edition, which is nice to see
Hmm were imo more durable last edition. Now less saves, less wards.
Major exception shooting as hiding inside trees makes you immune until shoot 12w 4+ 5+++
Even seed of rebirth isn't as big help as before. Now you don't come alive end of phase so you can be killed same phase and just 1w left vs d3.
Not saying sylvaneth bad but durability isnt imo that spectacular. Plenty of good tricks if you get spells off(luckily shutting down magic hard this edition. Magic shut down, sylvaneth in trouble)
i think the big boost in durability was using the body guard rule to reduce attacks. and the lords of the clan to max out the healing. really made things feel alot stronger
I think you missed a whopping 24 attacks with the brutes into durthu... 25 attacks would've been from 4 of them and the champ at 6 attacks a piece, you had 24 more dice to resolve from the other 4 brutes.
It was a ton of a attacks to miss, and it kinda caused a weird ripple effect with durthu living. This is why we retroed it so that Durthu "used" seed of rebirth to spot himself from dying. This doesnt fix it perfectly but gets us back to the same game state
hi guys, even though it's hard to win with Ironjawz at the moment... I love Ironjawz and think it's always good to see them in a battle report.
Waaaaaagh!!!
WAAAGH indeed sir. We are fans of Ironjaws and we are committed to finding a way to play them that feels right!
Great report. The terrain piece Belthanos changes into a tree also becomes a place of power, so if Alarielle (or Warsong with spellsinger) is close enough you can get them to +2 on casts
Hi. Warsong will not get that bonus because is only a wyldwood for strike and fade, healing and movement phase teleport.
For the rest of things is not considered an awakened wild wood, therefore the spellsinger is not activated
Huh? 21:16 David says 25 attacks for the unit of Brutes. 8 models 6 attacks each is 48 +1 champ.
So he only did half the attacks? Durthu 100% shouldve been dead.
Yeah, he forgot +3 attacks on the normal melee weapons. He did (3x8)+1 not (6x8) +1
@@Very_Unwise right? I'm not crazy lol. That's 24 more attacks he missed.
@@markpandelidis2079 whats funny is that he did add the extra 3 attacks for gore-choppas (6x2) = 12. he does mention at at 30:12
I think dave had a stroke halfway through that attack sequence. Once he realized it on the next turn it had gone to far to correct. We decided that the most fair result was to use the seed of rebirth which would save durthu and then move forward
@@BattleshockWargaming 😆😆
Can you charge the trees if they are not considered a unit?
I agree with your thoughts on the Ironjawz. Finding it hard to make a list that is survivable, especially for how expensive most of the units are at the moment.6
Seems like pretty massive points reductions are in order. Just being able to squeeze 1 or 2 more units into the list would be super helpful
WAAAAGH!
Wagh, indeed!
* gnarls and creaks in angry TREE! *
Google translate says that "waaagh!" means "Wow!". Apparently, orks are really just Owen Wilson.
Thanks
No problem! Enjoy the battle!
What’s the ruler type that you use
we use a collection of 12" and 9" that we have gotten out of various GW boxes. the 3" combat gauges Michael printed several of them
👍
Voting for my sylvaneth list ❤️. Still think morbid is the way to Go with place of Power from belthanos making alarielle +2 to cast.
Ive taking Morbid with sylvaneth and it synergizes very well indeed. I would take morbid just for access to shackles
I did 5 games in a weekend with IJ and tweaked the list between games. An idea i came up with is to take Brutes in just 5 men squads and use them as kamikaze. They are soooo strong if buffed and die so easly after being charged that it just works. Take a couple of warchanter, a boss and a mage in the Subfaction with +8 charge bonus, and send 1 unit each turn to obliterate something. They can have +3/4 attacks, exploding hits, +1 charge and demage. They do 37! Damage to a 3+.. they are enough, and this way you have more shots at kill something. Here the list:
Ork Foot 1980/2000 pts
Orruk Warclans | Ironjawz | Ironjawz Brawl
Drops: 4
Spell Lore - Lore of the Weird
Prayer Lore - Warbeats
Manifestation Lore - Forbidden Power
General's Regiment
Megaboss (210)
• General
• An' Eye For Da Fight
• Trophy Skulls
Brutes (200)
Regiment 1
Weirdnob Shaman (130)
Ardboyz (180)
Brutes (200)
Brutes (200)
Regiment 2
Warchanter (120)
Gore-gruntas (180)
Gore-gruntas (180)
Regiment 3
Warchanter (120)
Brute Ragerz (130)
Brute Ragerz (130)
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
App: 1.4.0 | Data: 181
Movement 4 is tragic tho. At least ragerz run and charge, but brutes are far too slow to effectively use as missiles imho.
@@ciaosonoAlbertoG it is certainly not easy but with MD they have 7" move, i take the manifestation for extra movment ability, i can teleport for a 9" charge and most of all screen with pig on objectives. The enemy has to kill them, Brutes just behind can charge in my turn.
If you split them in 5 man units even if the opponent gets one on their charge there is another waiting.
I like this idea MSU brutes should trade way better then the big blocks
@@BattleshockWargaming another tweak on the list is to put the Reagerz together in a 6 men units if you want more power and are ok with loosing screens.
What you can do is to mess up turn 1 Battle Tactics. Deploy them in the middle near the big boss. They get a 4" redeploy + 3" MightyD and can counter charge 6" (they have run&charge) getting fight first in the enemy turn. So "take the center" is risky and "Take the flanks" can be messed up with a hand of gork on the pigs to screen out the side.
No shield bash on Balthanos and the Durthubefore fighting in round 1? :< (it's a combat ability). Also the Ardboyz no longer has musicians (the old models did though). Lastly didn't you forget all the extra hits from the brutes into the Durthu? You only mentioned 25 attacks initially? (edit: right saw the note now :p. Don't really get why you didn't just roll the remaining attacks to see if that would have killed Durthu and left the rest as is)
Got to remove those musicians from the unit, hadnt realized it got dropped when the new sculpts came out. It was a tricky spot to be in with dave forgetting half his attacks. it kinda caused a ripple effect of durthu being alive, killing pigs and generally running amuck. We thought at the time "using" seed of rebirth to stop durthu from dying to be the most fair way of resolving the error
Can you guys play KO at all?
We have done one KO game in 4th when we did our tour of the mortal realms. they are going to be back in rotation, just need to paint and add some new units to the collection
At 33:20, why are both brute units at -1 attack?
Oh, I figured it out. The honor guard special rule thing. Cool, Thanks for answering my own question!
How is the Weirdnob Shaman able to cast the Krondspine with the 8 in the Sylvaneth turn? Was the place of power activated?
it was a 6 and a 3. That is a cast of 9. Minus 1 is 8. successful cast
@@BattleshockWargaming I see, misread the 6 as a 5. Thanks for the clarification!
⛏️⛏️
This went about as I expected with Sylvaneth being mobile monster heavy and having anti-charge infantry. With limited rend and hitting on 4s IJ need hero support, but the hero's buffs being the wholly within 12' and being mostly single turn buffs makes it frustrating at times.
Agreed, Sylvaneth can take that charge pretty well and the IJ just felt too elite. Need some point reductions to bring them more inline
10:23: pretty sure trees didn't charge you. Shield bash is vs charging unit.
Now i could be wrong but have hard time imagining trees charging you 🤪
Actually this brings up importat point. Manifestations can be picked as targets of enemy abilities that pick targets but aren't affected by enemy abilities that don't. Same for faction terrain.
So both can be picked as target for say sword kurnoth mortal targets but aren't affected by purple sun's -1 save roll aura.
@@bakuchidancer I was wondering that.. so terrainbehave as not moving manifestation right?
He probably got them mixed up because he didn't do it round 1 against the charging monsters.
@@Strade8 pretty much yes.
Give my trees a movement value of 1! OMG that would be amazing. then people couldnt slingshot charge through them. I could adjust them as the game move. then then give them like some terrible branch attacks lol now the trees really could charge you!
Trees are at their top game rn
Big changes after the warscroll seemed to really help
@@BattleshockWargaming still has its flaws, mostly Wyldwoods related but it feels like a new army
@@Pedrocas84 Agreed I still think it needs another round of adjustments to make it proper but its a huge step in the right direction.
Get the Sons of Behemat and the Ogre Mawtribe back onto the battlefield that would be great
Sons are scheduled and will be coming out soon. Ogres is being edited now.
@ Yes thanks because it’s been awhile for the Ogre Mawtribe
Ironjaws with Kragnos seem tobe the way to go currently
The problem they have is that they suffer very much vs negative modifiers to hit which is why they struggle in the current meta, they also have low mobility which is a problem that Kraggy helps mitigate
Ironjaws with Kragnos seems like a lot of fun. Maybe hard to to battle tactics but way easier to get up and into combat
Hellllo
Hellloo my friend!
IJ are rough right now, I honestly don't see them working wihtout Kragnos.
Every time I build a list i end up cutting things until I can fit Kragnos and a Warchanter who imo is still just as mandatory as he was in the previous edition.
Also don't play either of the big bosses, they are both point traps (obv for an "efficient" list, if you want to just have fun go ahead). The Ardboy BB does almost nothing, usually his abbilities come up once per game.
The Brute BB is even worse, for his points you can just play another unit of Brutes. The Goregruntas are also pretty bad for their points, I'd suggest to replace them with the big pigs
The Brute boss gives +1 attack a turn on a 2+, that isn't bed. With the buffs to give a 4+ redeploy and counting 10von objectives did sone works on my games, because you can send him out a bit more compared to other more squishy heros.
The pigs cost less than the big pig and you need something that can move/ be a screen
Ironjaws with Kragnos seems the way to go. Brutes definitely have the problem of being very slow with no way to properly deliver them to the fight
ardboyz no longer have musictions
Think you’ve played as well as can be expected having Ironjaws. I’ve played about 6 games using comp lists and it’s the same result every time. Start of well but the units are way to expensive and we got to few models. 2x10 brutes and 2 x20 ardboys is good but then we have no pigs. And if you take pigs to play mission you more or less flush 380p down the drain because they die fast and usually doesn’t kill anything. Also being forced to have multiple regiments because of chars isn’t good either. IJ need to come down 2-300 points minimum. I know it sounds much but honestly to be on pair with A tier that’s needed. If you play big pigs it’s the same result, to few models and they die fast.
It does feel like pretty massive points reductions are needed. Just being able to bring in 1 or two more units would be greatly beneficial
Oops Ardboyz do have a standard bearer not musician
got to remove that musician from that unit, hadnt realized they got removed when they updated the sculpt
That moment when you say, they gunna roast me in the comments about not having a warchanter….then it literally would be the deciding factor in killing durthu with brutes 🤷
Going to have to each crow for that one. Its also super important to roll all your dice on the attack very important
Love seeing Ironjawz on the table, but they simply aren't playing the same game as everyone else. Tough times right now.
20x Ardboy block with Zoggrok+Warchanter is nice.
Gouger can score flanks then threaten a counter charge strike last combo - have found that allows Brutes to sometimes push through damage that they otherwise wouldn't have.
I actually don't hate MSU Brutes with a reinforced unit of Ragerz. Brutes take forever to get to the fight, so investing 800 points into them and having them die before they make it up the table is feels bad. The best games I've had is leaving them on a home objective and then having You Messin' prevent enemy flankers from easily stealing it.
Primal Energy is great for zoning out teleports almost exclusively because burning head casts on a 5.
MK doesn't fit on the table. His (and Gordrakks) rules aren't terrible, but the base is simply too big. Megaboss on foot is my pet model but cannot compete with simply adding 5 more Brutes. Maybe at 160 he'd be worth (or 180 with +1 rend on profile).
The mega boss on foot does seem like a big points sink for someone who is just hanging out not doing much. I think next time trading him out for another support piece might be the ticket. Currently it does feel like pretty massive points reductions are needed. Being able to add 1 or two more units into this list would make up for its lack of hitting power
@@BattleshockWargaming I really don't hate the warscrolls as much as others have made out, but yeah the costing is a bit...off.
I'd love the Megaboss to get the Brute keyword so he can get his own buff, and potentially an artifact that gives strike first so he can actually use it. Would also like to see him the the same weapon profile as the MK Megaboss (i.e. 2 rend).
Obviously some way to play around -hit would be nice but not sure what form that would take.
Lastly, Grunta weapon profile adjusted to 2 damage. It's still a Brute with a gore-hacka, I'm unsure why it gets worse when it's on the back of a giant running pig.
Another slight rule things. IJ summoned Kronspine as intervention the dc is 9 than.
Great Format.
Yup. I rolled a 6 and a 3, so it was successful