Patch 14.5 Role War: Best role in League of Legends? | The Dive
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Dive! Azael, Kobe, and Meteos had a lot to discuss as we come off the break. They cover patch 14.5 updates, discuss which lane is the best, and debate whether support is inflated or not. Also, they discuss last week's games, team standings, and pro performances from this past week as playoffs approach. As always, keep submitting questions and hot takes!
Thanks for listening, and stay tuned for next week’s episode as we kick off playoffs!
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro, watching LCS live, and crowd atmosphere
8:47 - Team & Pro performance after the break
12:37 - Tools for practicing, stealing barons, and smite fights
19:43 - Which lane is the best?
28:12 - Is support inflated?
39:52 - Patch 14.5 - Buffs, Nerfs, Win Rates, and too much Volibear talk
59:35 - Item changes
1:00:42 - Standings & week recap
1:09:15 - Team Liquid
1:17:39 - Should teams be experimenting this close to playoffs?
1:20:18 - Is C9 back?
1:26:47 - NRG (Meteos wouldn’t bet eating a lemon on them)
1:32:08 - FlyQuest & 100T
You can always learn more and view the full match schedule at lolesports.com/schedule?leagu...
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Meteos channeling that protagonist energy, getting that inner monologue at the beginning. He truly is the focus of this season of the dive, i hope the writers won't get him killed or something
You know he hates it when writers kill characters for shock value
@@nestor6178a fellow triangle watcher I see 🤣
If they kill him off we riot peepoRiot
2:05 Meteos just developed telekinesis between these episodes, I guess. Can't wait to see what else he can do by the finale.
Super hero arc
Fuck he looks so smug when he speaks telepathically
C9 really did elevate during the break.
Holy shit this is one of my favorite moments of ALL TIME PLEASE DO NOT REUPLOAD
The funny part is, the gesticulation from Kobe pretty much matches what Meteos is saying.
2:25 in thought I was tripping
Same😂
Bro I literally restarted the UA-cam app I was so confused
It still doesn't make sense to me lol. Where's the missing video where he's talking at this and what part did the telekinesis section come from??? Honestly mindboggled I restarted my UA-cam too thinking it was lagging
Yeah... wierded me out
On Azael's point about going in person is definitely the atmosphere. I was at NRG Stadium for the Danny Baron Steal into Pentakill. That. That's why you go to event's in person. I will never forget that moment and feeling across the whole arena.
The tangent discussions just relating to normal things players experience in league is really great. Love the game analysis and LCS talk but everything else is a bonus. Also obligatory meteos praise.
When did meteos learn ventriloquism
Mental health ganks are absolutely necessary; even if they don't ragequit or run it down they still start soft inting. The cardinal rule of 'Don't gank the losing lane' is something players will understand and even agree with on paper, but goes out the window as soon as they're the losing lane.
I really disagree. I find a lot of times forcing a gank on a losing lane makes them overextend and it backfires on them and speeds up the ragequit process. If I am gonna play 4v5, I want my botlane to at least be turbo fed.
Personally I'm a fan of mental health ganks where I am eroding the mental health of a dude on the other team who is already at risk of tilting.
@@jaketerpening3284the lane that is behind is only going to fall farther and farther behind that’s how league works. And the enemy that is ahead is only going to get stronger and stronger. So why not shut down a 2/0 3/0 riven now before she becomes 5/0 and takes over the game. People see this never help a losing lane and it works once then people think we have to do this every time when that’s not true.
I really only play in 5 stacks these days. If I get shit on in lane I'm begging my friend who jungles to stay the fuck away. Like bro that illaoi will 1v2 us real quick just go help bot 😂
Formula 1 does a fantastic job at giving the best broadcasting options at home. You can watch the main broadcast with main commentators, or switch to the other perspectives at any point. There is options for different commentators that are less standard and more insightful in other aspects (less play by play), you can switch to any driver's personal camera or perspective. I would love this for LCS.
I can watch the main cast, or a specific player at the the touch a button, or switch back to the main easily. Or even have the other commentator choice too at times.
They did this 2 years ago, and it flopped. For a number of reasons.
Kobe is so right about not pinging top laners lmfaooo. Love The Dive!
I actually really enjoyed Proveiw.
I would have 4 screen up. Main screen the casters have, the map, and the lane of the person I am interested in paired either with jungler or lane opponent.
It was super nice to watch!
Problem is most people have 1 screen or watch on their phone
@@Aleksandrlawgaming I only had 1 screen as well. I guess I mean “4 windows”. On phone it worked well with 2 streams or 2 windows, but any more than that and you can’t see anything.
wtf is happening at 2:10 lol
VentriLEOS is unleashed. This is what he's transitioning into after the eSports career.
Hearing them talk about pro view and having different angles makes me reminisce about the OWL pro view that was out during like season 2-3 iirc and with it you could watch the match live and have multiple screens with different layouts and views and they had hotkeys to quickswap to a players pov. Also I don’t remember if it was a feature of this or the replay viewer but you could fly the camera anywhere around the map while paused or like slow motion or sped up. It was BLESSED
Saw the intro, checked the comments, and you guys didn't disappoint. Got me some good laughs.
I'm an ADC main who played fill this ranked season which meant most of my games were jungle. I used to do those exact mental health ganks Kobe is talking about, but Meteos is right, don't negotiate with terrorists.
I agree, the second a lane starts hard losing it’s done. It’s why I stopped playing the game. Too easy for an entire team to lose because a single player runs it then just gets more toxic.
@dps0610 Your mental also plays a role. Just try to check out mentally in those games. Try to win, but don't be upset if you lose
@@faveology I’m good. Much happier not playing than I was playing. Almost every game where that starts happening is just a waste of 20-30 minutes.
Also, ganking someone who is on edge can go bad extremely easy since they'll be weak and misplaying cuz tilted. Ganking a losing lane and gifting the enemy a double kill is a foolproof recipe to lose the game.
a general tldr for around 29:00-29:50 support has a lower floor, but also still has an actually high ceiling as well
yo love the dive !! keep up the great conversations this show is siiiiiiiiick
Thanks guys as always!!! Love your chatter back and forth... Can't wait for the next...
Thanks for another great episode guys 🙏
Sometimes I look forward to the dive more than the lcs games lol
On the 100 thieves sucking in scrims thing. Why do these people think losing scrims is a bad thing or that you have to win scrims?
Scrims shouldn't be about winning, it shod be about testing stuff, limit testing, finding what works and doesn't, practicing specific things with each game (baron control, dragon control, purposely getting behind to work on winning from behind, work on playing around different lanes each game) etc.
Winning a scrim is actually the least effective and least important thing you can focus on
Agreed. A scrim can be successful even if you lose
Because if you are losing consistently all of them, are aren’t normally finding good baron setups, or finding what works, it’s fine to go “it’s okay scrims are for practice anyways” but what you’re ideally practicing should yaknow, be leading to winning those games, like learning how to close a game with baron buff should not lead to a lost scrim. That completely ignores player morale to begin with.
I love the dive with meteos, really looking forward to next episode
For curiosity's sake, a 225 stack smolder with Shojin/Triforce/Navori (60/45/55 AD) will do about 5.2% burn compared to 6.5% currently; I'm not accounting for other sources of bonus AD like Eyeball Collection or Gathering Storm. At 300 stacks and tossing in a Rapidfire Cannon will get you JUST about to 6.5% depending on stat shards and random sources of bonus AD. So smolder won't be giga broken at 225 anymore, but is even more certifiably busted late game. The caveat is that 2% bonus ad is actually a sizable part of the numbers. For a full tank, 0 bonus power smolder (think the silly IBG rushers toplane), you'd need to get 812.5 stacks for a 6.5% burn again. So smolder will scale harder but he *WILL* have to itemize offensively.
So, the OP "supports" listed are: Camille, Pantheon, Brand, Pantheon...maybe the issue isn't the role itself, maybe the issue is that it's been mutated into "third solo lane." I'd be very happy to see it weaker in gold if it meant a return to more supportive champs (speaking as a support main). There are four other roles if players want to do damage; if the play-rate drops a bit because one role is dedicated to propping up teammates in a team game, I think that's a worthwhile sacrifice.
Also, the talk about roaming like supports just get to move around the map without consequence is problematic: it might not matter if I'm not getting my levels, but if my adc is getting zoned off of gold and xp while the enemy Draven gets to take turret plates, that means I picked a bad time to roam. There are consequences that matter-if they don't directly affect me short term, they're still gonna affect the outcome of the game.
Not here to say "it's not strong" or anything, but just a few things that seemed very overlooked in the video.
Meteos' bed head is killing me right now🤣
Meteos is such a great addition!
Something Counter Strike used to do, they still might do this but I don't play anymore so I'm not sure, was having the in-game spectator client for valve events included the casters and spectator cameras, but at any time you could commandeer the camera
Cool stuff as always
Always good to be under a minute
I think having the sub screens at live events would be more successful than pro view because you still can see the main game on the big screen at a moments notice. This would be a cool implementation because you get the whole vibes of the crowd, you get to watch that area, and you get casters.
Pro view kinda sucked online coz it almost felt like you were getting less out of it than if you just watched the regular broadcast.
I was waiting for this episode haha best content ❤🎉
Practice tool talk was on point. Should be a game mode where both teams spawn with 3 dragons a piece, or an elder situation, or baron situation. Restrict the play area. Everyone is then equipped with items and both teams get to play a meta team comp to just go at it.
Its like CSGO retake servers, where you practice just retaking bomb sites with limited equipment/players
11:57 so, should they add an indicator on the enemy health bar to indicate if you've reached execute value?
No
pfft why? every single other easy ass execute has an idiot proof indicator why cant kalista (THE HARDEST ONE TO CALCULATE) get one? just why? please explain yourself@@aciv132
i feel very strongly that the issue with c9 is the loss of zven. I feel like he was the experienced shotcaller and was able to reel in some of the more aggressive plays. Vulcan has also not looked great as an individual, but that could change pretty easily.
4:17 ya know i never thought of it that way and i agree eSports culture and atmosphere is all unique but it's all hype
42:41 i got the "exotic jungler" thing with ksante jungle last year lmao
For Summer I hope they go one best of one round robin followed by a best of two round robin based on seeding from the first round robin. Consistent broadcast times, more games, no ties and a little bit of adaptation. Can prep the first draft, normal experience second draft. It ends up as a modified best of 3 by the end of the season.
I enjoy this more than the games.
There's something about a jungler complementing another jungler that warms my heart. 11:00
I am assuming Meteos was talking about the DK/KT game last week, which was a long series, but was not due to the patch changes.
It was bad cause both teams were actually terrible that day. Neither team could figure out how to engage or teamfight for all 3 games.
hot take: when someone gets into league I usually have them play adc and i play support. Just let them do whatever and I try to do whatever to keep them alive
OH cool! Idk who this Lol Dobby guy is but I cant wait to tell my favorite streamer Sneaky about him. Im sure he will be a big fan!
I'm sad they didn't mention River's massive outplay at the beginning of the FlyQuest game. They eventually lost, but I think stealing Red unspotted into ganking for a kill lvl 2 is in some ways more impressive than Contractz's heist (which was fun, also).
18:00 why is no one using the practice tool??? it's so good.
Kobe likes the "mental health ganks" for lanes that are spiralling downward out of control? Where were you Kobe for NILES when he needed you most? ;)
Meteos gets better every episode
My starter role for LoL was reksai jungle s5 😊
What if people who attend live events get a tablet that they can use to focus on a specific player or lane matchup whenever they want to watch something other than the generic coverage?
i dont have any good guesses for how meteos can now podcast with merely his thoughts
I would absolutely love a "drill" system in League. I know that almost no one would use it just because most people don't tend to use those tools like Kobe mentioned, but it would be so cool. Maybe having it be competitive by having a ranked version could be a way to encourage use.
Back when I super grinded League, I had a drill I made in the practice tool with Pyke. I'd set up three target dummies in a triangle and not start solo queue until I could E flash stun all three with a ~75% success rate.
another banger
Finally someone talking about the high damage support issue. ¿Can you just let support free from botlane, free the ADC to have normal exp as all other lanes and scale normally? That will let support to do other things to disrupt all lanes instead of being constrained without ramping up with more damage. Give support item an experience booster to change between lanes and a penalize exp removal for the laner that receives the support. Doing this you will be able to remove damage from support items or lower it. Also you can add to support items a CC scale duration, at early levels CC is always at 50% of its duration for range champions. So mage supports can go botlane without making short range ADC life’s impossible.
Love Meteos' hate for Yuumi, he really does represent the community
I LOVE the Dive
If there was an option to upgrade smite for 25% more DMG or 25% more Gold (or team gold) from the kill, would there be a choice? Would some junglers greed for the gold or is it too powerful to let the the enemy have a bigger smite
Idk about anyone else, but I think it would be awesome if there were small clips with the scenarios they are talking about because I haven’t watched every single game and would love to see the in game things they are referencing. Just a thought!
does anyone know why the standings list c9 and nrg as tied when c9 are 2-0 up on nrg?
Koby coming in HOTTTTT with the fire jacket
I'm down for the cage setup but no crowd is wack.
Kobe what runes do you run on Voli?
I think smiterino still exists. It may not be updated but it's still somewhat effective
32:04 im currently plat, n i feel like 4/5 games i feel like i cant leave my lane or my adc will just int.
Omg Koby out here preaching with thr mental health ganks 😭😭 I always be doin those lol
Mid lane is the fiesta lane. So you accept that people are always going to show up there. The only time mid is just straight up terrible is if support and jungle are basically taking turns visiting you every other wave and your team has nothing to show for it while you're basically constantly in a 2v1 every other wave. But if you're playing something with high enough burst and playing safe sometimes that's actually just ok and it just means you get a lot of gold.
League could learn SO MUCH from the dota 2 replay spectate system. I wish they implemented an incredibly cool in game experience similar to dota.
very interesting
Q max stormrazor reaver vayne is good. depends on the matchup. BUT you have to go fleet with it. Guma did it in soloQ, you can find a video of the highlights of the game on the "Today on the korean server" channel on youtube. its more about the double move speed boosts (+ ghost) and spamming Q to simultaneously reposition/dodge and maintain uptime of your DPS. its less DPS but its more burst. if you re vs a giga tank ofc you re gonna rush bork and go LT or PTA or whatever. dont doom/flame the build outright, flame dhokla for not going fleet with it and going ghost TP or whatever the fk he did. you either go flash ghost or ghost cleanse when you play vayne/quin into renekton. and i say that as someone who likes dhokes and watches his stream.
as for the toplaner invading enemy jungle, kobe, my brother, have you not been watching zeus doing that 3/4 games for 6 months? xD he does it on aatrox yone ksante every game, dont even have to be ranged just be confident in your abilities (maybe less so on yone now with LT nerf, maybe less so on ksante with the changes now idk but on champs like aatrox or rumble, or obviously ranged champs .. jayce is good again toplane, especially with conq.. you get the early vision and camp out in fog, wait for them to start the camp and go to town on em, if you force them off the camp its huge.
My goodness, some of this information shocked me. 😢 I bought all the pro views that were available, and I use practice mode almost more than I play matches...... Honestly maybe league is too casual focused for me. Probably going to switch games soon
Pro View was awesome. Everyone liked it. The problem was Riot charged for Pro View, and no one is paying for that feature which is cool, but not worth paying for when observers do a good job already.
23:40 Meteos forgetting he isn't in a call with Sneaky and Doublelift
1:08:44 got me reminiscing of complexity back when prolly was mid XD such an entertaining time. That man did not care and would just body people with like Janna and then next game would play xin zhao. Good times.
What's stopping IMT from running Licorice/Spica/Mask/Zven/Chime next split?
My first thought is cash
IMT fan here [is lul] hear me out.
Overrated for diff reasons for IMT to spend on tbh. except chime and licorice kinda aswell to some extent.
Armao isn't that good but he doesn't mind playing for getting carried, as much as I dislike him personally he's an asset in that he doesn't have ego in lcs.
Spica is all ego and very little to show for the huge paycheck. He's inverse armao in that I like him out of game but it pains me to say he's overrated in 2024.
Licorice is great but he's one of those players that needs to much specifics on too many variables to go x games mode lol. I don't think imt should risk another entire split in summer.
Chime is an upgrade and actually paired with licorice makes licorice viable per KY licorice point but also cancels his and tacticAL. Tactical is good with a landing support due to his poor positioning at times and chime is a god tier roam and engage support.
IMT is fine to just ride it out but could look at chime and licorice. Not disagreeing for the sake of it but sharing points from a fan of the teams view. ❤
I love playing support and jungle the most. My go to champs in support being Anivia,Soraka, and Zilean. I will die on the hill that Anivia is a great support if people are willing to give it a shot
Anivia is great in general.
@@faveology She is my favorite champ so I agree you
Im a bad player and I'm always using practice tool :( there are so many champs i wanna just run 5 mins of combos on before playing the first time
Wait till y'all see the upcoming grasp of the undying + heartsteel tank smolder build
I think the way you balance support should be based on what Meteos mentioned, support power is really frontloaded. They need to curve the gold gain more smoothly. Something like you get less gold for kills while holding a support item, but the passive of hitting champs/killing minions still shares gold and removing the increased passive gold (Unless the gold gain is too little). It forces supports to still interact in lanes. Kill gold being lowered pushes these pure damage supports out as well because they cant snowball as hard. Having the support passive should buff tanks/enchanters mid game because one of the worst feelings of playing nautilus or something is youre stuck on one item for most of the game while buying control wards and you just get one shot every teamfight and hope you get your ult off on a carry. You never are tanky enough to get more than a single combo off.
Damage support should be feast or famine. Sadly, tank support feels that way atm. If ahead, you can't die. If behind, you die instantly. In solo queue, it feels bad
@@faveologytbh I blame that on how bad the tank support items are. The enchanter, mage and assassin/Marksman support items feel much stronger.
This is pretty common since tank items can be poached by every class, so if they are strong everybody will buy them
You do realize that supports don't scale to lvl 18 right.. ?
@@PEC0TTO What does that have to do with gold gains?
@@papelgiftware1 Curving the gold income of support would only move the issue. Right now support are strong early, because they dont scale into mid to late game. If you allow them to scale, you will then complain they are as strong as any other role with less "mechanics".
To be honest I dont understand how narrow minded people are to think support are the adc bodyguard only. People try to shape the META to make support a role that roam with the jungler and eventually the midlaner. But we can't. The support needs to be chained down on a lane, carry the wards and that's that.
very pogger video fellas! please talk about ryze more! the new build and the fact that they need to revert his ultimate are very important!! Many people are talking about this!! ~ Ryzeking33
Overwatch league had a separate pass to buy if you wanted to control the PoV you're watching and I think that would be great, gives the option for those that are interested to contribute more and doesn't harm the experience of the normal viewer
I feel like I'm such an outlier of a laner, lmao. If I'm losing and just getting absolutely destroyed, I just want my jungler to leave me be and help anyone else. Even if I'm worthless for a while, I'm perfectly fine with just playing to minimize my losses and scaling as much as I can. What does tilt me though, is when my junglers come and try to do mental health ganks and just end up making things worse, lol. I've already dug my hole, just let me lie in it. You don't need to come and possibly dig the hole deeper.
the dive with meteos is fire
If I could swap my champ within the same game without restarting the practice tool, I would use it at least 2x more. Genuinely a big fan of the feature, it’s just a bit clunky imo
I am the 0.001% of players that use the Practice tool A LOT. Weekly, if not daily. I love it.
To be honest ..LCS or League in General is so behind when it comes to Broadcasting Options for Viewers. I don´t know how much Steaming Services play a Part of it but you should could watch a Match in many diffrent Ways. Watch Top, Watch Mid or Bot or Jungle. Watch all 5 in a Splitscreen. Man even watch from Top to get en overview of the State of the Map. These are things that should be available in 2024.
@2:05 LOL
as a mid theres nothing to complain about cuz AP items are good again and the lane isnt gankable
I love hearing kobe nerd out about voli
Supports should be able to 1v1 ADCs early though. Damage supports are meant to be good without gold as in they have good base stats and don't scale as well. ADCs are meant to scale to be this huge damage threat. At lvl 3 with no items panth/brand vs Aphelios should win. At lvl 12 with panth/brand at 2.5 items and Aphelios at 4 then Aphelios should win. That's just how scaling works plus I think the idea of people starting in support is applying higher elo to low elo. When I switched to jg like below gold they don't really invade that often unless it's like a fiddlesticks where it's basic knowledge to. So tell them to play Vi or Amumu, look up a jg pathing video, then it's PVE for a good portion to get them comfortable to the game vs telling them to play soraka and they over extend trying to hit a Q and feed the enemy adc. Most lower elo players don't even try and fight a 3v2 if they come in for a gank and don't play it well. It's a great learning curve and gets a lot of hours before they have to start really learning about fighting outside their own terms for the first 15 minutes.
NOT THE WELLNESS CHECK GANK ☠️
I'll say this. You will have a hard time getting an 80k-person stadium full of people who want to watch a baby dragon scale for 30 minutes before anything really happens. This weekend's games almost put me to sleep.
I disagree when it comes to the practice tool maybe not being worth the dev time, since only a few people use it. It's still worth it. It only takes a few curious people to research and post useful information somewhere like Reddit. The knowledge one person can generate is multiplicative across the community
Shit turned into anime at 2:10
You could just make it so supports can farm too and they give money to the adc. That way they both have to commit to getting minions and they can scale more naturally.
Pro view was great.... It was just $20
i get really frustrated as a top laner when im doing well with good farm/income/exp and the support can just come match me or 1 shot me(senna is super annoying)
Have the PA pitch some money to create a better practice tool
I hear double support item is coming back... more enchanters less double adc would be cool
Every seat should have their own tablets that allows everyone to have their own spectator
2:11 Meteos is AI confirmed
If they nerf support im done queueing it 100%, its bad enough as is if i don't play a carry support and my carries fail and I can't make up for their slack
I dont get why they dont don't do some form of traveling weeks? We aren't even going to get finals outside of the studio this year if I remember correctly. So if you aren't around the studio, you'll never see anything live in person. See like a soft version of what pro wrestling and monster jam does. They should tour to some degree. Capitalize on, say, $20 tickets for maybe not stadium venues but decent sized concert halls/venues. It'll probably never get to this, seeing as this is what they charge now for the studio, and they are continually downsizing as is.
Please bring back triple round robin. Triple round robin would go back to 9 weeks if you still did a super week at the beginning and end with one somewhere in the middle. Best of 1s are more entertaining in my opinion, although I know that sentiment isn't shared by everyone. You are missing the skill expression of really diving into draft game to game and taking advantage or disadvantage of champion pools but I like saving that for playoffs and triple round robin still gives you a better sample size with more games and gives you the extra two weeks back if you do it the way I said for teams do develop throughout the split.