How ISPs Violate the Laws of Mathematics
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
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This joke video is about how Internet Service Providers (aka ISPs, internet companies, telecommunications companies, etc) violate the basic axioms of Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory. Like the axiom of choice (sometimes Well-ordering theorem), the Axiom of extensionality, Axiom of regularity (also called the Axiom of foundation), Axiom schema of specification, Axiom of pairing, Axiom of union, Axiom schema of replacement, Axiom of infinity, Axiom of power set.
Minute Physics provides an energetic and entertaining view of old and new problems in physics -- all in a minute!
Created by Henry Reich - Наука та технологія
Just keep an eye on them.
When they start to violate the laws of thermodynamics we could be in serious trouble.
They already do. Their customer service is a perpetual cycle of bullshit
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
If they could figure that out they could save us from the inevitable fate of heat death.
A lava monster version of Judge Dredd will come out and say "you betrayed the LAW!"
Turns out the entire industry is run by lovecraftian old gods and staffed by cultists and fishmen.
Honestly I'm more concerned about them breaking actual laws in this story.
depending on where minutephysics lives, it may be perfectly legal to give customers this runaround scam. ISPs in the US are broken up in to local monopolies and frequently pull this BS, promising one price then charging another, changing prices mid-contract, charging fees that don't actually pay for any additional service, all on top of pitiful internet service. and the ISPs can get away with it because they're the ones lobbying for the laws to make it legal.
........ emmmm........ if this is ok.... sauce..... to ... your pfp?
Oh don’t worry the ISPs won’t break any of the laws they’ve paid for and written
Does canada do this BS?
That’s the whole point of the video
Reminds me of my dealings with an ISP that we shall call Comcast (because it was Comcast). I only had internet through them, because internet was all I wanted. But at least once a week they would call me and try to sell me cable, despite my insistence that I didn't even own a TV (which was true, I only had a computer).
But one day, they offered me a deal I simply couldn't refuse: a bundle of cable and internet that would cost less per month than internet by itself. They were so desperate to sell me cable that they offered it at a negative price. So I accepted. And when the cable box arrived I promptly shoved it in my closet because I still didn't own a TV.
And thus, my problem of them calling me once a week to sell me cable was solved. Until they started calling me once a week to ask if I needed help setting up the cable box...
Th… they sold it for a _negative_ price? How? Does that mean _they_ paid _you?_
@@RadicalGarry Internet = $50/month
Internet + Cable = $40/month
Therefore, it stands to reason that the cable portion was -$10/month.
“We shall call comcast (because it was comcast)” is fucking hilarious
Imagine if you had accepted them to help you with the cable box, and then they would come over to find out you really don’t have a tv.
@@melody3741 Well, we should *really* call them "an ISP that starts with a C and ends with a T, but unfortunately their name is longer than 4 letters though their behavior is not".
My personal favorite is when trying to troubleshoot my connection with my ISP, packets were arriving from both the past and the future (packets from both 1960 AND 2020, but this happened in 2016). So not only do ISPs violate mathematics, but also time!
and time is a part of physics
I did tech support for Comcast out of an office in Edmonton Alberta... I have seen this a few times, usually in Arizona.... what is worse is when you can see the order of packets you sent ( example 1,2,3,4 ) and not only the date, the order and delay for those packets ( example 1 - 300 ping, 4 - 200 ping, 2 - 800 ping, 3 - 120 ping ). If you live in Texas, check they actually use copper as over 10 years ago Comcast Home Internet was barely faster than dial up and had ping, signal strength, etc to indicate they were re-using the old aluminum telegraph lines in some sections of the state.
Well all your packets incoming SHOULD be from the past
@@Nate-bd8fg that 56 year ping kinda go crazy tho
...what?
When you get left on hold so long you write a script for a math video.
Lmao thats hilarious
pfp sauce now or eles
@@uwnoodle :(
@@uwnoodle please do give sauce
It's probably where the idea for the background music came from.
Normal person when they get ripped off: Call the provider and resolve the situation
Minutephysics:
I don't think normal people can resolve a problem in a way that benefits them... this guy though
@@laoganmafootballclub6632 he will make Customer Service people start crying, quit job and when Manager gets thrown tye job of solving it he/she will simply suicide rather than deal with a customer who's complaining about any given set of rules & laws of Mathematics or physics being broken by their Services.
@@H-to-O Yes, holding them up to bears as offerings will set a GREAT example for the others!
At least this won't waste the operator's time.
Don't call the provider. Go on twitter and tweet about them. You will get better and faster service. You might even get a competitor's better deal.
Math teachers when you tell them that you’ll never use maths in daily life:
You're right because everyone breaks maths anyway!
You need to know how to use it before you know when you'll use it.
Probably no one cares but I was the 700th like
When I was working in customer care and even as a manager, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to lead people to conclusions that would fix their problem that I wasn't technically allowed to offer. I've many times basically said "I can't tell you that you can't do that" with a satisfied grin as I was happy to hear when they finally got it. I would always know it was coming to when I laid out all the peices. "...Wait....what if" in my head "finally they got it"
what kinds of solutions arent u allowed to offer in customer care? isnt the whole point of customer care to give solutions?
@@wuketuke6601 yes, but also to make customers spend more. So workers could be told to offer more expensive solutions instead of cheaper or free ones.
@@wuketuke6601 The ones that lose company money.
@@wuketuke6601 depends on who's definition you're using. short answer, "no", not normally.
@@wuketuke6601 Because of regulations and other issues, more often than not companies (especially corporations) are more than happy to scam customers to try and squeeze more money out of them, and sometimes if you value your principles more than the company's bottom-line and you get caught, you'll be fired.
"It's not not allowed." Classical logic joke right there.
Unfortunately, not not allow doesn't equal to allowed, at best it is cannot confirm.
@@Verpal I think anyone with half a brain could figure out what someone would mean
@@powerinknowledge2392 Unfortunately, we live in a world whereas most have full brain, but refuse to even use half of it.
@@Verpal enter me, I break your statement by having half a brain, and using none of it
I just dont know... You mean Classical _ logic joke or Classical logic_ joke?
I couldn't do my homework.
Why?
My ISP broke maths.
"this was english homework"
*Mafths*
@@valkree5081 "..." "oh.."
@@RubyPiecbut English is mathematical.
Not gonna lie I thought this was gonna be a video about how Internet Standard Protocol is actually mathematically impossible.
same
Could you elaborate?
I assumed it would be about how they offer you more bandwidth than they could actually provide to all customers at once (under-provisioning).
Lol same
same
As somone who used to take manager calls for a telecommunications company I can say with confidence the best part of that job is being able to say "I can't tell you that you CAN'T do that"
when a mathematician tells a joke
You're here! Hi!
Please tell crow not to copy VR
a 6 minute joke lmao
Actually it's around a 5 minute joke, the joke starts at 0:05 and ends at 5:04
what does a mathematician do when he's constipated?
works it out with a pencil.
top tip for everybody trying to pause on the ISP's name, you can use a comma to skip back a single frame and a period to skip forward a single frame while paused
that's a mighty protip
Thank you
Took a phone snapshot, haha
How have I never known about this?!?!
Wonderful tip, thanks for sharing this mighty knowledge.
You start freaking out and the manager says: "Are you ok?"
And you say: "Sir, you have broken mathematics as we speak."
“I would like the $25 bundle of popcorn and soda.”
“Ok that’s 20 for popcorn and 5 for soda”
“Oh then i’ll just have soda. My friend doesn’t really care.”
“Just the soda... that’ll be 10 dollars”
*“What..?”*
Edit: Guys it’s a joke i know it’s normal and it’s what places do, i made a joke about it
the point of charging overall "less" for bundling with additional hardware is that they make a little more off the rental fee on the hardware, which most people forget about, and then when the bundle promotion ends the rental fee jacks up even more, and in the span of a year you've been charged enough that you could have just bough the hardware outright several times over.
it's a real headache for people who know how to set up their own modem and router to try and save money, especially if the ISP charges an additional fee for refusing to rent the ISP's hardware.
"Just the soda... $30"
"What..?"
"And a $20 convenience fee"
There's an unbundling fee.
How does this surprise you though? Every fast food joint does this.
I want a Whopper. That'll be $3.99
I want a Medium drink. That'll be $1.49
I want a Medium fry. That'll be $1.79
I want a Whopper with a medium drink and fry. That'll be $5.99
Or how about at the grocery store.
I'd like a half-dozen eggs. $0.59
A Dozen? $0.89
A Dozen and a half? $1.19
5 Dozen? $2.99
Buying things a la cart tends to cost more than in a combo just like buying things in small quantities costs more per unit than buying in bulk. It doesn't make sense in most situations--there's no extra work put forth to get you that Medium drink by itself than there is to get it in a meal... but they charge you more for it anyway.
That’s normal
When ISP is so broken it breaks mathematics
ISP*
If they would have violated the laws of Physics, they would get a NOBEL PRIZE
FTW violates FTP
ISTP hacks ISFP
@@barraman. lol good one
"You can't *not* do that" is a sign of someone who hates the job but cares about the customers at least a little bit
Reminded me of the scene in The incredibles where Bob tries to help the old lady.
That has got the be the best bit of this video :D LMAO
My favorite response to people who desperately need but are prohibited by company policy from obtaining necessary information: "I'm prohibited from discussing the account with you, but let's say hypothetically that a customer was in said situation, one would need to take this course of action..." QA can't touch you because hypothetical implications are not statements of facts. Sadly, very few third parties can read betwixt the lines, and would prefer to a to speak to a supervisor about what an unhelpful asshole I am.
Can't not
Brewhound77 Unless the QA bit is tied to legal disclosure and non-disclosure requirements. Then you are still on the hook.
I worked for over 500 ISP's that outsourced their work to us. It was hell, and we had to talk in grey areas and shady business. Like "can I just return the router" scenarios, I had to lead people with questions to what they wanted. "So you said you wanted x, but currently are not getting it, what would you like to ask for so I can help you."
I'm not a Physicist (though I really really love physics). I am, however, a Computer Scientist. Thus when I confronted my ISP about my service, I proceeded to explain how their infrastructure was shit and not worth the price they gave me. So then my bill went from $80 to $50. It's still not worth $50
Wait how did you manage this? Whenever we complain we just get "yeah we know but basically what you get it what you get". To be fair, there's literally no other option (except verizon DSL) so.. Who are you gonna go to?
Lol? Where do you have such big prices?
I pay 17€/month for 300Mbps, including the wifi router
@@panda4247 I'll give you a hint. The price is labeled with a $ symbol.
@@GenarelGuy well, there are at least 10 different dollars, and the US dollar is used in at least 10 other countries...
With price that high, I would assume the answer is the US, but based on the "shit infrastructure" it might be Australia as well. Or any other of those countries, I don't know.
But my point was not just ask, but also to point out that it is way too high..
@@panda4247The US has some of the worst internet in the world relative to what we pay. Particularly if you don't live in a big city. I was paying $120 a month just a few years ago for what was ostensibly 20mbps but was more often in the range of 0.3mbps (not an exaggeration) AND for the last year I was getting disconnected multiple times a day in what I later learned was intentional load shedding meant to disrupt people's streaming or downloads to fake providing faster internet by reducing its actual usability. I also had trouble with their support. They would send a technician, I'd have to take off work to let the person in. It was always a hassle of waiting hours for them to eventually show up, but the last straw was when I waited 3 hours only to get notified that they marked it done an hour before the appointment, without ever coming to my house or actually doing anything.
This was CenturyLink DSL, now Lumen/Brightspeed. Like what was described in this video, it was a bait-and-switch pricing (was supposed to be $70 but was $90, then they hiked it to $100 and then $120). Sadly, the alternatives managed to be worse.
Thankfully, a county-focused federal grant program finally brought fiber to my county so I am now paying $70 for 300mbps and people across the county line just 10km away are extremely jealous (the company that took the grant for that county embezzled it so they're SOL for at least a few years still).
Spectrum violates another law of mathematics. 100mbps is what I ordered, and I usually get around 5mbps. And 100=/=5.
No no no, see, you ordered *up to* 100mbps
100 mbps wired. Keep that in mind. If it’s WiFi it will be less. You should get over 100 wired like 115-120 over. If not call a tech.
@@ExOddus117 are you serious?because my plan is 50 and i get max 44
Im on wired
@@pprit6927
Yes wired is better,
NO it does Not mean you get the promised Speed.
Your Speed is highly dependant on your cable to the House, your ISP, usage in your neighbourhood, total Traffic at ISP and Last, but definetly Not least the Speed of the Server you Are connecting to (e.g. Steam when you Download a Game)
I pay for 500 Mbits, yet Sometimes only receive 20 and even lower than that With some Services.
Oh shit, I wandered into the smart people side of UA-cam
Stick around, we've got postulates.
The Garden of Eatin
I heard “we got postulates” in that same tone as an excited teen saying “we got makeup!!”
@@thegardenofeatin5965 na I dont belong, I dont know what tf a postulate is
@@josephmekhail7692 Its the smart people way of saying "rule" or "fact"
Yea u want the dumb guys go to fox
I spent a year taking a Uni course in set theory JUST so I could understand this video. Absolutely fantastic btw.
You really did🎉
I had a 128k cable modem line that I paid $9.95 a month for. And I had a very important piece of equipment to use with this line, a cable modem that I owned rather than rented from the cable company. This line served my purposes. When the cable company would upgrade they would insist that I needed to upgrade my equipment and pay more for a higher speed. But my modem continued to function and they couldn't do a thing about it so long as I paid my bill. Fast forward to over 10 years later and the company is still insisted I need to pay more for a faster line and rent a newer modem from them. They also insisted I needed a router and a trap for the cable line. But my old modem still worked with their line, I had my own router, they could do nothing as long as I paid my bill. But then they introduced a 50 GB cap. I was not at all concerned, I had a 128k line. Somehow, 48 hours after the billing cycle I had reached my 50 GB cap. I ended up getting a $9.95 DSL line from a local company. So I guess I lost the battle with my cable company. They won. Congratulations.
thats not really surprising you can hit such an egregious cap, you can get up to 18GB per month out of a dialup connection @ 7kb/s.
@Jibo Da Grey well, I was peeking at 24kb/s on downloads and during those 48 hours I used email with no noticeable large attachments and browsed a few news web pages. But what really got my attention is the fact that I reached my cap at precisely at midnight to the exact second and it was precisely 50000000 bytes at that time. I was on the phone a long time with the 3rd party company that did the counting for the cable company. Their schedule showed steady use at all times despite variable use on my end (verified by my logs) including being disconnected for several hours while I compiled code and having my computer off while installing a graphics card.
@@zerothis23 oh.. well it doesnt surprise me either that an ISP is a lying scammer especially when they have such an egregious cap.
When ISPs violate the laws of mathematics
_Stop! You have violated the Law! Pay the court a fine or serve your sentance. Your stolen goods are now forfeit_
Thank you, kind sir
Human law is less mathematics.
r/unexpectedOblivion
If they would have violated the laws of Physics, they would get a NOBEL PRIZE
@@Esablaka how can i delete your comment?
I didn't laugh at this because internet service providers are just this frustrating.
Same. However, rn I have an INSANELY cheap internet - when my ISP raised the prices, they accidently allowed "unbundling" of services... so now I have just an internet connection with no garbage which costs half of initial price.
I saw this video and called my cellular provider. I've started talking about these axioms and said to give me a better price and take out the services I don't use. Now I'm dealing with the possibilities of facing a bunch of lawsuits, proving me (thus you) right. Thanks!
Not to brag, but about a month ago I got a new deal with my existing ISP, but unsurprisingly they charged me more than agreed upon. I called customer service and they said they'll look into it. Later that day they actually called me back to say that they listened to the original recording of the call in which I got the new deal and I was right and will be compensated! I'm still stunned! Also, minutephysics, you should've recorded the original conversation
The fates favored you that day
Depends on which state, if you can record them. Check local and state laws
In my case, I was in the "wait" part of the call. Already waiting for 30min. I Just mentioned close to the Phone that I was recording the whole 30min wait, the ISP dudes magically showed up in the next second.
Taking electronic note.
@@Brane_Ded you can always record, some states just require you to tell them you are recording
1900s: they will be flying cars in the future.
2019: my ISP broke mathematics.
To be fair, we *do* have flying cars. They're just called "roadable aircraft" and they require a pilot's license because, duh, they're flying.
@@IceMetalPunk Let's be honest. People will probably never be able to just get in a car a fly off without a pilot's license. We can't drive on the ground without wrecking into eachother. Can you imagine the destruction if everyone was just given the ability to fly too?
@@davidmurphy1207 Yes, I can! It reduces the probability of collision with each other by a large factor! More Volume! Safety == Flying Cars! The probability of touching the ground however remains the same ;)
2018: there will be ASI by 2045
Dec 2044: ?????
@Garison Hayne
The only reason it's safe is because pilots are trained and they follow flight paths. I've personally twice seen a car going the wrong way on the freeway at night. There's no possible way to avoid a collision if everyone were just randomly flying around in the air.
I worked for Spectrum briefly as an over the phone tech support for their video services, though while I say that, I quit before the training was "technically" over, in that I quit after they put us on the floor by ourselves on the final week of training with effectively no supervision unless we deliberately asked for a supervisor to help us. The reason I quit was mostly because while we spent a few weeks in training prior to that point, at no point in the training process had they taught us how to solve any tech support issues aside from programming a tv remote. They hadn't even shown us how to use the "software", (essentially a flow chart), for helping customers, or even how to access it. Instead, we had spent pretty much the entire training period being taught how to upsell customers after we fixed their problems. You know, the thing we couldn't do because we hadn't been trained on it.
ah... worked on site tech support for a short time.
training. was more or less a fire drill video and don't sell nukes to Bun ladin and Alibaba and other terrorist organizations (I can´t even order USB cables I can not even request it for a long time)
5 min on how to use the ticket software but not how any of the actual ticket software is to be used so ticket in (what do I put this as) i know how to close ticket whit a failure or success.
i know how to put said ticket under me and put it as in progress, or how to read the cryptic messeng that is the ticket.
no training was done on how to do you know of our actual work day to day work.
As an IT guy for a construction company with many new sites needing internet, I have observed a vast price difference for the same service. They will charge as much as they can get away with unless you argue and fight and that doesn’t always work.
Internet: 19.99/mo
*customer convenience fee: 29.99/mo*
Where the heck do you live? North Pole?
Internet 100mbit: 5$/mo
500mbit: 10$/mo
Customer service, router: free
Also special prices if you threaten to switch to another provider
@@NJ-wb1cz where do you live? my internet is 300 mbit down for over 100 dollars
In india, 1gbps WiFi(3000gb) costs around Rs.3500(USD 50)
@@anjusingh5510 your WiFi have a limit?
In SG, 1gbps, unlimited for 40SGD (30 USD)
@@lilypad2026 Russia, Moscow. Other big cities have comparable rates.
In remote places internet is obviously much more expensive.
Oh, and obviously traffic is unlimited.
Why does the promised price go up but the promised speed go down?🤔
That would be due to the 4th axiom of ISPs
A shit pi- I mean, Ajit Pai
Gotta love the $35 a month turning to $70 as your 30mbps becomes 3mbps and there are no other options for competition.
Most of the time it is due to service providers only giving you the pricing for the base package, not a lot of the add-ons they tack on. Also, most service providers seem to refuse to calculate the taxes for service as well, giving more a broad spectrum estimate on monthly pricing. Unless the price difference was in the hundreds, either of these could be true.
Edit: Also service providers have a stipulation in speeds for UP TO the amount advertised. By the legal write up, they could give you dial up speeds if they wanted to since you are paying for speeds up to a potential maximum speed. Big business is grand
Because they over-sell it.
As a mathematics luddite, I'm quite amazed that I managed to follow along perfectly! Well done... 😏🙏😁
Reminds me of cellular carriers, offering ""Unlimited [Bandwidth] High Speed Internet""...
It may be unlimited, but trying to utilize it as such, you'll find there are many limitations.
Then there's the fact they call it "high speed internet" instead of "broadband internet"... which is done so that they can exploit a loophole from the FCC. In which, by not offering "broadband", they in turn are not subject to the minimum requirements they need to meet. Since doing so would mean a huge expense on _their_ part.... Theeeyyy'd rather just use a synonym.
Or in layman's terms: "🖕, FCC! 😊"
not like the FCC serves any purpose
I am amazed and charmed how he made a simple negotiation with the customer service into a mathematical law breaking joke🤣🤣
0:07 “who’s name will remain *unspoken*”
*flashes charter spectrum for a frame*
I see what you did there...
More like 0:09 "Charter spectrum tv internet voice"
How did I not notice that.......
yeah as someone who uses spectrum (for lack of a better option).... Well, let's just say they're not the best, their internet is mediocre at best, unreliable and bad at worst.
Oh boy, wait til you guys hear about comcast!
Two frames, actually
This video was a mathematical middle finger to ISP’s
Spectrum. Their isp.
Too bad they're too dumb to get it
And yet the ISP can still count their money, laugh, and give the middle finger right back.
Despite being lost in all of the axiom talk, I still found this amusing.
Good content
"Sir, this is a Wendy's"
Can you get an impossible burger at Wendy's?
Marketing and Mathematics do not like each other
Nice Tomorrowland profile pic
Fraudsters dislike truth
Because marketing relies on twisting the truth in such a way that it becomes preferable to reality, while mathematics if a force inherently tied to reality.
marketing likes nothing except slavery
This is genius..
And sadly all too familiar.
I have dealt with NO LESS THAN THREE.. THREE!!! companies this year that have over charged me, lied about it and I needed to send them a copy of the phonecall which my android phone records in order to get my money back.
Its not a mistake.. they literally LIE and are STEALING money.
I now record EVERY phonecall.
I would recommend reporting this to the FCC. They can done your issues a lot better than the customer service can.
Blake Foster not with the current head of the fcc in charge
@@MarionetteDuAuguste they actually will do help you though. I accidently broke my internet cable that ran through the ground into my house, and Frontier Communications wanted to change us $500 for the replacement. We said we wouldn't pay for it even though they had already told us that there was no charge. Then we sent a complaint form to the FCC and they took the bill off in 2 weeks.
@@MarionetteDuAuguste also, the fcc head just wanted to remove net neutrality, not customer support
When I make calls like this I start by telling them the procedure for how to file a complaint with their regulator.
I have feeling the same problem for some time with the same ISP. It is just like the concept of being able to choose which TV channels/networks you want and only pay for those which follows that they have the Axiom of 'Bundling' down pat.
Re: Axiom of Choice, we actually have free choice of service providers for the fiber that is already installed in many places here in Sweden. It's a setup kind of similar to how it usually works with electricity: there is a fiber connection setup by a common organisation for the area, but actually connecting that fiber to the internet is up to an ISP, which you can choose freely from many options which can be different from your neighbours' ISP without any extra charge or anything. The ISP then pays a fee to the organisation that handles the fiber cables themselves, but handles all the routers and other infrastructure themselves.
The free competition does indeed improve prices. For example, the cheapest ISP where I live provides something like Spectrum's $70 plan (500/20) but with higher upload speed (500/100) for $35 and I am currently paying $14 for 100/10.
For everyone trying to pause on ISP 's name don't bother. It's Charter Spectrum.
I saw it.
TV | Internet | Voice
Charter spectrum
no one had to, it wasn't hard to see what it was
@@whenyournameisduoduos1282 well i mean its < and > but ok that works i guess
You probably could've convinced the manager faster if you explained how they were committing false advertising, but that would be significantly lacking in mathematics.
It actually sounds like a bait and switch or just flat out fraudulent practices or contract violation, which all can have legal teeth equal or greater than than false advertising, in court.
surprisingly not, the companies are very well versed in how their publicity contains a certain loophole and will only lead to a 30 min explanation of the loophole, in this case how they offer internet for $40 but never advertised the price of the modem, so they are charging the advertised price, and since you have the ability to return the modem as the video end sugested there is really no forced price, not the most ethical practice but not ilegal per say.
@@mytech6779 Oh I've no doubt, but that was the first example that came to mind.
@@olgierdvoneverec4135 If they can't explain it in a sentence then clearly they're trying to hide something. Or they're just inept and don't understand their own product lol.
@@XperimentorEES theyre trying to make it as confusing as posible, so you get tired and droop it, they will be super clear to the court if you take it there, even showing it flat out writen in the contract, so yea a scummy practice, all im saying is that you aint going to scare most managers claiming its fraud or false advertising, they've heard it before and somehow it isn't.
When you're salty that your ISP overcharged you so you make a video about how their business model doesn't coincide with mathematic laws.
Just in case you wondered, the company at 0:07 is Charter Spectrum TV | Internet | Voice
I think that you guys are forgetting about the tenth axiom though.
10. Axiom of Xfinity
{Money} > {Customers}
I love that everyone in the US seems to hate Comcast.
I like this story 'cuz where i'm at there's only 2 ISPs, AT&T and Shaw. The easiest way to lower your price is to claim the other has given you a fictional better "special" offer, because it's actually illegal for the two companies to know each other's private offers - but they CAN communicate that a special offer has been offered and attempt to match it. After 3~4 phones calls to both you can get pretty much at most 30% off (which they will reneg on, but you'll still have a better discount)
this is absolutely amazing! subscribed
Leave it to 4:20 to be the most inspiring quote in this whole video.
"Despair can't be constructed without the axiom schema of specification" does this mean that despair can't exist without a description of what it is?
After googling "axiom schema of specification" I realized that in essence despair can't be described because it comes in many forms. Am I correct?
You are correct as far as I know :-)
Basically a highly mathematical rant.
Lesson of the day never piss off mathematician.
And you're the one to say
I suppose this level of mathematics is beneath you, Rick
@@carazy123_ Apparently, MinutePhysics doesn't understand bulk rates, bundling, or economy of scale. He has zero understanding of economics, or is being willfully obtuse. The primary issue is they advertise one price and then throw on hidden fees. When bundling goods and services, the provider gets less profit per item, but makes more in total. For example I may offer to mow your grass and trim your hedges for $50, while charging $35 for just mowing or just trimming. Why would I do that? Because I have to bring myself and the equipment to your house. It isn't worth my time to do that for $25 but it is for $35. I still only make one trip if I do your hedges as well, and so I will do them for an extra $15. This is the dumbest video I have seen all day.
@@krisspkriss its called a joke dammit
0:09 charter spectrum
If you are wondering what isp he talked to
0:08
Thought so...I don't understand why the bundle is less than than any individual parts. I've never used the phone service in 5 years. Might as well sell me an unbreakable mirror that arrives in infinitesimally small pieces.
yeh he mentioned it in the original bah fest video
@@vlstyles it's a loss leader they hope to make up by long distance (and similar) fees or government subsidies.
Thanks for the explanation! Now I feel all warm knowing I'm helping Spectrum turn a profit...
This was great.! Loving this channel.!
You sir are one of an unusual breed that totally nerds out with math level 100. I totally understand and don't understand at the same time. Good on you!
Charter spectrum says $ 99.97 on their website with tiny text saying "when bundled"
If you're never going to actually pay $ 99.97 for it, why is it on the website?
Deceptive marketing ofcourse. Depending on your country it can actually be illegal or at least, result in a lawsuit.
I'm glad to say i live in a country were a government organization has sued several companies for misleading/deceptive marketing and won. Companies were fined and forced to change their marketing.
For example: now commercials can no longer say "just $39,99 for the first three months" and display only "$39,99" on screen, they are required to inform the receipient of the price after the first 3 months in a clear manner(spoken or shown).
Before they only had to display only a long line of text at the bottom for 3 seconds, but was deemed unreasonable to read for the average receipient to read in the alloted time.
*"Flash sale! Everything* _-up to-_ *95% off!"*
@@Handinmapocket that's not deceptive marketing but plain cheating .
nathan255 It’s called marketing, an boy is it sure scummy
Handinmapocket well, I live in the US, where deceptive marketing is the go to!
the part that isn't true is that he sent the router back and kept the $40 internet.
I’ll bite, why not? Considering I’ve done basically the same thing over the years with remotes for cable boxes (you actually pay a few dollars each month to rent each remote, but if you return the remote only you can have the amount of each remote rental deducted from the cable box monthly fee since you have now split that package back out). It’s absurd that as customers we have to play these games, but we can play games too.
@@ethanpoole3443 because the "$40 internet" is, in fact, $50. Thus, the quoted "$45" plan, would actually be $55. (or more.)
I work for said company and you could technically receive the router but not use it and use your own
@@CrystalPines Yeah, and keep paying for the "ISP" router. You have to send it back or they keep charging you.
@@gmfreeman4211 depends where you live in my area you only pay a fee for the modem the router is free
I love this channel but I must admit this episode was brilliant, thanks for the laugh!
0:24 "which reminds me of the first of the axioms, or laws of the Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory"
...you know, as you would while talking on the phone
The fact that the biggest ISP here in México is called Infinitum makes this story slightly funnier.
His internet is infinitely slow
@Mai Mariarti you can swear
@Mai Mariarti uhm... what? *swear in singlish, with Lee Kuan Yew turning over in his grave*
infinitum is so cancer. good thing we have izzi now in north mexico
@@Welvis55 not only on north
*WHO WILL WIN??*
*ISP Customer Care who just doing his job*
*VS*
*200 IQ AXIOM BOI*
Unfortunately, the job of ISP Customer Care doesn't include caring for the customer, nor is it to actually understand anything about what they're selling.
@@angeldude101 but it is still his/her job to do what he/she is doing. They just have a name that is incorrect from the eyes of the consumer, though from the business point of view "take care that the customer does not cancel our service". :)
That is it, you need to know the key words.
It was actually manager but ok.
@@neiana there are certain companies here in Brazil that doesn't even know how to do proportions properly, where the proportion of the price of bandwidth speed 1:price is different from speed 2:price which is different from speed 3:price, and they also randomly cut your speed down in half at times (_cough_ ... "Alive" Telecommunications-) claiming that there is too much of a demand somewhere else, but the internet you pay for is of 2 to 4 Megabits, and they already have the capacity to distribute 10 MegaBytes to each phone in the city to tens of millions of phones at the same time, and you have to reset your modem to temporarily get your internet back which is the eight hundredth of the speed of the mobile data speed you can get.
(out of topic: usage of singular "they" pronouns is valid. reading he/she|his/her sounds awkward)
Literally just subscribed straight off the back of this video 😂
I relate to this video. Its like every day something is reminding me of Zermelo Fraenkel Set Theory.
Any company that says "you can't have A for $x unless you also take B for $y, but you can take A + B for $(x + y) and then return B for an $x refund" deserves to have their CEO fired. Ridiculous.
I used to work in retail (worst time of my life, in terms of job), and the company culture was basically, "You do what we tell you to do, even if it makes no sense, and if you ever dare to question anything or try to suggest improvements, you'll be out of a job." It was awful, and my boss at the time told me, "That's just how running a company works." It made me miserable. Fast-forward, and I now work in software development at a global financial technology firm; let me tell you, that is *not* "just how running a company works". My current manager has told us several times to call him out on any BS if he's wrong, so we can work to find a better solution. About a month after I was hired, we even had our company's Chief Information Officer fly out to our little office for a meeting, to which we newbies were invited with everyone else, and he asked everyone if there was *anything* we needed, anything that could be improved, anything he could help us with. He took notes and vowed to immediately look into any issues raised, even from us newbies. Rank didn't matter: if you have a good idea, then it will be discussed and considered.
What I'm trying to say is, "I love my new job, hated my old job, and *leaders of companies need to focus on making sense more than being in power* more often".
@palmomki I think the problem arises when the bundle as a whole costs less than the individual services. Not just when you're getting a discount for a bundle. If Service A costs $40 by itself, and Service B costs $20 by itself, the bundle of Service A + Service B costing $35 is a little underhanded don't you think?
I see you everywhereeee
Nope......its bonus time.
"Why would they change math? Math is math!" - Mr. Incredible
Seriously underrated quote!
Incredibles 2?
@@thstroyur No, Incredibles 3.
@A form of matter u mean incredibles 4
@@aformofmatter8913 Ow really? I thought it was Incredibles 7*pi+9*i
You will find that at least one of the Laws of Business is to always break as many Laws of Mathematics as possible with the customer being none the wiser.
I appreciate Math as I work in IT but besides some scripting and java programming equations for stuff I don't dive too deep into it, not into theory or laws of mathematics etc, however you managed to make this very entertaining, and used it with something we can all related to which is ISPs being shitty. Well done sir, very entertaining.
As a person who has been on the phone with customer support for two hours today and did not go anywhere this resonated a bit too deeply.
What I've noticed is that any industry which begins with "customer" is inherently *not* in favor of the customer. Customer service doesn't care about the customer, customer support doesn't care about the customer, etc. Those industries are all about following orders to make money at any cost.
I estimate I spent between six and eight hours trying to explain to Comcast that they were double billing and that I didn't owe them for two months of service after I moved and my former roommate got his own account.
Ever been so salty about your ISP that you made an advanced mathematics video on UA-cam about it?
It's not advanced mathematics, it's the most basic mathematics.
@@nerfzinet it certainly is not easier to understand than 1 + 1, so i say it's not basic.
but i agree that it is the "basis" of mathematics
@@Vekcrazah That's fair, though it's interesting to consider whether it would be viable to teach this kind of stuff earlier. Maybe it would help cement the basic concepts more, but then again it'd probably just go over everyone's heads like most math.
I haven't, but that's just because I'm not smart enough. I could curse and flail my arms around though. Would that help?
Ever be so salty about your isp you shot their employees
This has happened to literally everyone I know.
I've managed to get them to honor their original quotes, but you have to ask the first person you talk to, to confirm that the price they give you is the same number that will show up on your bill, and to confirm that there is no possibility that the quote might change.
Then when you get your first bill that is $10 more per month than you agreed to, you can call them up, and keep asking for the next manager to get a few rungs up the chain of command.
Then you can tell the manager that the original salesperson outright lied to your face to get you to sign a contract. The manager then listens to the recording of that call, realizes that yeah, they're in breach of contract, and will honor the original amount. (verbal contracts are valid in Canada at least if you can prove there was an agreement). If they don't want to honor it, ask them to provide the contact information for their Ombudsman/Oversight Commision so you can escalate this further. It never fails to scare the crap out of them.
I've helped a few friends and family members get their original quotes doing this. But you have to do it while signing up for a new service, since it requires getting their salesperson to say "yes I can confirm that is the amount that will appear on your bill".
It's pretty disgusting that it's necessary, but that's ISPs for you. They'll give you the original deal if you make a big enough stink, but it usually takes several phone calls and 5+ hours on hold, so most people just say screw it and pay the higher amount.
How is this legal?
I also had a similar experience. When asking for a new connection to an ISP, they told me that I had to buy a router otherwise new connection won't work. As I already had a router that I bought for my old ISP connection, I didn't want to buy a new router but they insisted that it was necessary and made me bought it.
Due to our ISP also providing TV we got a bundle with internet and TV and then called and got the price lowered by switching to just internet, but the TV service was never disabled so we got free television for like 2 years till we moved
You can't say they have infinite absence of customer service. But you can say they have zero presence of customer service.
ISP provider: what we offered is what we could offered...
Minutephysics: hold on, that's a paradox
minute physics is the only person who is ever allowed to say "let me talk to your manager"
idk about your experience with ISP call centers but lower-level customer service can't do anything except answer questions. If you have problems, especially with plans and/or services, it's better to ask for managers
4:50
The provider said,"Crap! He got us!"
4:51
"Crap! He got us!!"
It took me a while to get it to pause at that exact moment. Glad you quoted it.
4:51. Wait. This can't be a coincidence
@@minecartrider7057 It is not.
@@housemaster3000 You know you can change video speed right?
This is just brilliant. You know, what might be hard to understand to some students is just described and explained in such a well fitting way, well, basically it‘s one of the best educational videos i‘ve ever seen.
You sentence structure was looking good until you made the classic mistake of misusing commas. "well fitting way. Well, basically, it's" is the proper form.
I expected a video about overprovisioning... but this one also checks out.
This reminds me of when i was looking for dial-up internet in the early 2000s in upstate New York. My options were Roadrunner, Earthlink, or Time Warner Cable...all owned by Time Warner Cable. Each had a simply recolored version of the same options page. The only alternative at the time was Net Zero, which if you've ever paid 0 dollars for something relating to the internet, you know how that went.
As someone who has done their time in a customer support call center, and someone who loves ZF set theory, this physically hurts me. The bureaucracy never ends! And while most service employees are good, honest people; bad service emerges from the aggregate. :(
Customer service / retail is all about bad ideas trickling down from the top, because you're discouraged from asking questions or suggesting improvements when a policy is flawed. When I worked in retail, that was the worst part. I once had a manager lie to me about something she said I did to make it seem like I'd made a bigger mistake than I had, and when I explained to her (a) what I'd actually done and (b) the evidence for how I know I didn't do what she accused me of, she threatened to demote me for talking back to her. Another time, I'd made a slight mistake, and when I came up with a solution, my supervisor told me I couldn't implement it; that same manager then called me into her office to blame me for the store having to give away a $15 gift card because of my mistake. Like... I had immediately come up with a solution that would have cost the store *and* the customer nothing, it would have resolved the issue without a problem, and I was told I wasn't allowed to do it -- and then I was blamed for the issue not being resolved. WTF?
I will always rant about that job. Retail / customer service is an awful culture.
*EDIT* I just realized that in my rant, I never even mentioned the relevant scenario xD We had a policy that I was meant to follow towards our customers. Many customers didn't like it, and many didn't even realize it was company policy (they thought we just did it on our own). I'd had several customers complain to me about it, so I stopped following it. One guy even gave me a huge tip specifically because I *didn't* do the thing, and he appreciated it. My store manager noticed I wasn't following policy and told me I need to start doing it. So I said, "I think there may be a problem with the policy, though, and--" I was interrupted by him saying, "No, there's no problem with it. It's fine. Follow it." Needless to say, I continued not following it, until eventually my department manager called me over. "I'm pretty sure [store manager] told you to follow this policy. Why are you still not?" Me: "Because it's not a good policy, and I have--" Her: "It's policy. We tell everyone to do it, not just you; follow directions. If I need to talk to you about this again, there will be disciplinary action." (Side note: the fact that she thought I wasn't following it because I thought I was being singled out, like a rebellious child, rather than actually having good reasons for not following it... reasons she would never even let me express... was so frustrating and insulting.)
TL;DR of that last story: a policy that was touted as being great customer service, but which the customers actually hated and were willing to pay more to avoid, was forced on me without even letting me explain *why* I knew it was a problem, or even offer suggestions for improvement (I had a solution in mind, not that I ever got that far with them). Like... when your customers complain about something and you ignore them and say, "We're great at customer service!" -- you're just a company full of arrogant assholes who care more about their own ideas than actually being decent. Sure, you make lots of money, but you're not perfect and there's always room for improvement if you're willing to listen.
@@MM-kv8uu "Sadly, M M was shortly unemployed after posting this comment." :P
@@IceMetalPunk lol
@Matthew Hoiland
And you don't find it a little ironic that customers complain about poor customer service for a service they think they pay too much for? Or did you make your fortune in customer service?
I don't buy that the people doing the evil person's dirty work are good.
It's so funny because this is so true, I worked in a call center for spectrum and it is really their fault on not being transparent on pricing, like not telling you the $5 charge per router you add, or that they have a surcharge in certain areas. Also tax, that kills your good price because it usually will add from $8-$17 a month depending on your local tax rates
I went through the same thing. Except removing the phone line we signed up with raised the bill by $20.
And we bought our own modem that we could not plug the phone into. So despite returning the modem they continued to charge for it because clearly we must still have it. Despite the fact that multiple times it was confirmed by multiple people that it had been returned and every singe one being confused by it, we were still charged every month for the modem for two years. In the end they game us a month free service. So we got about half the money back.
I hear you, this happens specially in hotels. Try seeing the Room only rate, Room with Breakfast and the breakfast standalone price. You would be surprised. It's part of yielding techniques
Dear Customer, you have been selected to have the data cap on your internet service removed. You now have unlimited data at *half the speed* !
> But I selected this option after estimating the amount of data I use in a month.
Congratulations on your *FREE UPGRADE*
Aleck527 Lol?? On what third world shithole on the planet there are still data caps on landline internet? Most people don’t even have data limits on their 4G/LTE connections, let alone a fixed landline. I’m living in a poor European country and even here there are no data caps of any kind since the 2005.
@@zusurs the united states is very, very backwards when it comes to internet service.
@@FateBringsMe2U Canada too, our internet service is comparably backwards since we typically share all our infrastructure/etc. suppliers with the USA (hence people looking at you funny and charging you much higher prices if you try to buy metric hardware in our supposedly metric country).
Download everything you can find. Try to gather terabytes of data every week. They'll probably switch you back to the original plan soon enough.
Do the math... I expect not only will the "unlimited" limit of half speed times a month be lower than the old cap, they'll rarely reach that half speed, and they'll throttle it to even less should you reach another cap they pretend isn't set by them.
router 5$/month? you can buy it for 15$ :D
The ISPs don't even pay _that_
Sometimes ISPs force you to use the ones they have. For instance, my ISP provides a modem/router combo. If you want the service, you have to use their modem, which means you have to rent it from them. Don't pay to rent the modem? Then you don't get service.
My ISP is my cable provider, because I have exactly the same number of choices for each (less than 2), provided I want internet service at all. The combo router/modem is needed, but they do offer the option of buying a 3rd party device rather than renting theirs. Just be sure it meets the minimum specs. Found one for $100, but that saved money after less than a year.
Internet @ $40, I get it for $1.64 (28 days, 42gb)
$200 for a good one
They will take every dime that they can. Customer service is actually sales dept. Cable companies are cut throat. I worked for one for 7 years. It's all about what their "marketing research" found about two or three decades ago. Work them over however you can, because they're doing it to you.
The fault is considering price to be a fixed value. There is a quantum effect with prices causing the value to be determined at the time of observation, before that the price is a wave function and only has certain probabilities to be a certain value.
I’m a netadmin for a smaller ISP and this video is pretty on point. There’s the shifty sales department setting arbitrary prices and promising rates that can’t be delivered and there’s a couple of network engineers working day and night to try and provide the best service possible and keep up with sales promises.
Go ahead and explain away the "rates that cant be delivered," part of that comment.
Sales people make deals with customers.
Some make you money, others are bad financial decisions.
That is life....win some, lose some.
These are your employees making the decisions, not the customers or the government.
You can demote them, fire them, or promote them out of sales.
Your choice.
@@truthsRsungHe is another employee just like them. Its not his decision. He just runs the physical side, the sales run pricing and plans.
@@deepspacecow2644 ...Only a Corporation could make a justification for Separation of those two Ideas.
The only ones who benefit from departments not knowing what the others are doing are the Board and Shareholders.
Not the employees who wouldn't do their jobs if the knew they were fabricating disinformation.
I'd be updating my Resumé.
Charter Spectrum. Sheesh, make it hard to catch the single frame picture, why don't you.
It was on the title card?
-CFW. Magic- To be fair, so is a few other ISPs lol.
@@RanOutOfSpac fair
Sorry for responding this late, but the computer you can press , and . to go one frame back/forward.
also it's 2 frames.
I have no idea why I felt like mentioning that.
I had to come back to this video later, because my Spectrum internet dropped momentarily at almost EXACTLY the moment you dropped that flash frame about your ISP!
When you move to a new apartment , make sure there hasn't been any subscription to Spectrum by the previous tenant. If so, you won't be able to get a new service unless the previous tenant cancels their subscription from spectrum. If you cannot get in touch with the previous tenant via the owner , you need to do some paper work to prove you're the new tenant and then you can have a new connection from spectrum.
Better to use your own home WiFi then to get one from spectrum.
Internet speed offered by spectrum varies from location to location. Also, they calculate speed using Mega Bits per second and not Megabytes per second. So, when they tell you a certain speed for your area, realise this fact and know the actual speed in terms of megabytes per second. They use Megabits as it looks faster than megabytes per second in terms of numbers.
I purchase a 25gb plan from my isp and they tell me I've reached 100% of my data allocation at about 23.5gb every month. They do love their interesting math.
25 GB could mean 25 GigaBytes, counted in powers of ten (10⁹ = 1,000,000,000 bytes), which is probably what your ISP is selling you; or it could mean 25 "GibiBytes" (GiB), counted in powers of two (2³⁰ = 1,073,741,824 bytes), which is likely what's being reported to you. 25 GB ≈ 23.3 GiB, but software often uses the "GB" abbreviation for both units
I wish I understood math.
Well you don't even need to understand math to see how he's getting screwed here. Just logic. His new bill is more expensive even though he's getting the exact same service.
Same dude same.
I have one word for you: I wish that as well.
Math is easier to understand than ISPs
Maths is fun ..... Because it related to universe or we can say everything is maths ...... The dimensions we are now is a maths ...... 😃😃😃
To be fair, violating the set theory issues is typical even in totally honest business practices where they give bulk discounts or bundle discounts without any games (beyond the bundled discount). But that does typically require, for example, that the discount be on the whole package, not be a cheaper price for each item that is easily broken down. (Often, these are legitimate cost savings, too, depending on the products; packaging savings, for instances, passed on to a customer, or shipping savings, or many other possibilities. Loss-leader things happen, too: "Give away the safety razor; sell the blades for life.")
But yeah, cable and internet companies are often ... underhanded.
It's not a violation of the first axiom because the price of a service is not the same as the service. So just the map from the price to the service is not injective (there are at least 2 elements in the prices set that are mapped to the same element in the services set).
Way too relatable. Been trying to get Xfinity to allow me to pay for JUST internet and not cable, but for some reason internet service alone is more expensive than internet + cable.
Switch to DSL for a while and then ask them if they offer just internet.
You will find that the terms and conditions to get you into their system are much different than the ones once you are in.
Once in the system don't accept any upgrade options.
When their price goes above the "new customers only" offering of the DSL company, it is time to repeat the cycle.
Yup. I have FiOS... and it's cheaper with land-line phone service along with TV and 'net.
Lose the phone service and the rates go up. So, I just don't use the landline. However, it's not a total waste: sometimes I need to provide a phone number to someone whom I do not want calling... they get the landline number. The single exception is a neighbor who (for whatever reason) feels the need to call the landline. But, since it's a very nice neighbor, I don't mind. I guess it's possible they don't have a cell phone... but they could still simply call mine with their landline.
with charter internet alone was one penny more than internet+cable+phone we never even hocked up the phone.
@SumKoon
Cable TV (before ISPs) went down this same sort of path. As the ISPs and cable TV came together it has become worse and worse.
It is now to the point where people get "basic cable" and have also put back the TV antenna. The quality of the over-the-air digital TV is so much better than the compressed stuff on cable that they watch the over-the-air.
I called in once, "I can't afford this. If you can't give me a better price, I'm going to CenturyLink". Got $20 off my bill instantly.
1:50
You sounded like the smartest Karen on the planet
Karen is never smart
@@coows I mean, not wrong
Please let me visit the kids, karen
@@coows as a proud Karen I can assure you that some of us are both smart and use our powers for the greater good. Last month I got a friend's isp to lower their bill by 20%, they were ripping him off, yeah I know, what a shocker.
:D
I worked for brighthouse branch of spectrum, I can confirm that they made it very hard, but not impossible to avoid this.
There were legacy brighthouse pricing options, various promo things.
The router is a monitoring device, because yes they monitor for behavior that correlates with peer to peer networking or torrent seeding, immediately assume illegal piracy and penalize you.
The bundles can be separated but the act of doing this is a pandoras box saved as a last resort.
Most of the older employees missed being brighthouse, because they could better serve the customer then.
Edit: also wifi capability charge is literally a bit of DRM, people have hacked routers for wifi but they get reset regularly.
Omg this is Awesome! Best intro to ZFC Ever.