+Sup3rShann0n i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
+JamesMichaelDoyle See, even still, i don't see anything wrong w/that. The house has the edge 99% of the time; If you're clever enough & have the pull to tilt the odds in your favor, & get the edge on the house, if they don't catch you in the act (since they allowed him to play on those specific terms) then Ivey should be praised for what he did because he found a way to beat the odds. Casinos take millions every single *hour* from poor shmucks who either don't have control over what they're doing because they're in the throws of a severe gambling addiction, or don't know what they're doing because they're shit-faced, black-out drunk. They not only allow these people to play, they encourage it. They're taking advantage of peoples' flaws & exploiting them. How is Ivey's act of taking advantage of the casino's flaws in their system any different? I'll tell you how; Ivey isn't hurting anyone or destroying anyone's life. Trust me, whatever amount Ivey took home that day, that casino made back in 1/2 an hour.
Sup3rShann0n the difference is, that the house does not gain the advantages through trickery, everyone walking in knows the rules, and what the deal is. it does not matter whether or not a casino will make the money back quickly(and they most certainly do not make 12 million dollars per hour in profit). the fact of the matter is he cheated. edge sorting is forbidden, for both the house and the casino. thats why casinos will only use certified casino grade cards. tricking the casino into using marked cards, regardless of whether you marked them personally or not is still cheating. he cheated, and now is crying about being called a cheat. hes a fucking wanker.
+JamesMichaelDoyle the casinos could have said no to using the cards but they didnt so its on them. what phil ivey did is not cheating plain and simple.
Pete Kovacich they had no reason to say no. they were certified "casino grade" which means no flaws. thats how this all worked. the card company is likely fucked now that this happened. did he do anything criminal? no. but he most certainly did CHEAT. so him crying about being called a cheat is laughable.
+Bud Grant Sorry to bud in here , but reading your comment that Phil ' LOST ' his case Boggles my mind.?!? Unless you were just joking around.??.... but if you were being serious , then that is really pathetic.!! And I say that based solely on the word of Phil in this interview. Obviously if the jury heard something else , something that Phil was not being totally honest about ....then Okay , I could see the casino winning. But IF what Phil was saying is the Truth ..??.. then that ruling is Brutal.!!
The Moral Crusader Agreed, Ivey did nothing more than exploit weaknesses in a system. I would be interested to know what people think of this analogy - In a lawn tennis match one player exploits a lump in the grass by repeatedly hitting at it and giving his opponent bad bounces, cheating or fair game? Well I think that Ivey found a "lump" in the card design, he should be paid.
(Phil) If a person can be that observant on minor imperfections on the cards and remember the order of the imperfections, he deserve's to win the money. That's incredible.
That's not what he did. He had a sidekick, a woman who spoke Mandarin. So, they requested, and were granted, a dealer who also spoke Mandarin. The sidekick would communicate her wishes to the dealer, citing superstition as an excuse, and have the dealer spin certain cards 180 degrees once they were face up. Then, when the cards went back into the shuffler to prepare for the next round, certain cards would be facing one way, and others would be facing the opposite, so that a skilled eye could determine, not exactly what the first card of the next hand was, but, rather, that it was one of a select group of cards which would either grant the 'Player's' side an advantage or not. Then they would bet accordingly. Very ingenious, but poorly executed (or they wouldn't have been caught).
Casinos are always like this. If you keep winning they will kick you out. They don't care if you are cheating or not. Why anyone goes to casinos is beyond me. Would you play with a friend who always kicked you out or accused you of cheating when you keep winning? That's what a casino will do.
+Tony Seagle i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
+JamesMichaelDoyle Phil requested the 'marked' deck and the casino agreed. The expert in the 60 minutes segment is on the spot when he said that " the casinos did it for him". It is the casinos fault that they walked into the trap. The Borgata allowed the scam to proceed for 4 months without flinching. It seems that the casinos staff was on weed.
JamesMichaelDoyle Nobody has said that the casinos knowingly let Phil win. As for a specific brand of cards, the casinos should have known about the defect. If they didn't, it is their ineptness.
Lets say theoretically that Ivey lost that 3 mill. and tried to sue the casino for the same reason? The casino would say GFY and laugh their way to the bank. All-in-all, its pretty obvious that it's very much the casino's fault by facilitating the request to essentially allow him to edge sort. by using a specific type of card back. Don't want your players edge sorting? Don't use an asymetrical card back- real fucking simple.
+Catherineone i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
The casinos failed epicly... Ivey will all those request told them : Hey, i'm going to exploit every trick i can to get your money. And they said : OK, bring it on... And now they are like cry babies for being tricked
I was expecting a 50min interview with Ivey, lol. As for the law suit...what a load of BS! It's the casinos job to check all the decks to assure they have no defects.
He colluded with Asian woman to read the cards defects and if its true she was communicating with the dealer , it was obviously part of his scheme , therefore unfair at the very least to other players and the Casino didn't agree he could use her as an AID or TOOL so HE could PROFIT , that's straight up collusion .
+SACTICAL BAG You can't "collude" on a game between the house and separate players (like blackjack, for instance), only in games with player interaction. And from what we can tell, the Asian merely asked the dealer to flip the cards a certain way. That's not cheating, at all.
say what you want but phil is a very humble and classy guy very intelligent. and for cheating bs they agreed to his terms who feels bad for a casino they rob people everyday. how many times have you turned on the news and saw someone hit a jackpot and the casino say the machine malfunctioned
this wouldn't even be an issue if Ivey lost money doing it. Casinos love card counters, because plenty of people suck at it and end up losing money. they only hate the brilliant card counters who actually can take the casinos money. funny how it works.
How could the 2 casinos be so stupid to grant a request for a particular brand of cards? Secondly, Phil Ivy played for 4 months at the Borgata and he was winning big. So, naturally, the valid question is why didn't it raise a red flag for the casino officials? It seems they goofed up.
the CASINO has the RESPONSIBILITY to buy and maintain their own decks of cards as well as sanctioning their own chips and managing their own dealers, including table managers and pit bosses... if the CASINO failed to keep all of these factors up to date and in-check, then it's the CASINOS RESPONSIBILITY for whatever happens on the table during a live game. if Phil Ivey noticed a flaw in this system and decided to take advantage of it then he did NOT CHEAT or break any rules. he played the game that was being offered to him and he won.
its like 2 pros playing on a pool table for big money. One players knows that the table leans a certain way and doesnt say anything plus uses it to his advantage. To me, thats not cheating but just taking advantage.
the problem with the "card counting", advantage play or edge sorting argument is that the casino will happily take your money if you lose playing those strategies but complain if you win... and they will pretty much complain about any- and everything if you win and ban you from playing...
Not cheating, just smart. Casinos should realize they're in a risk business. As in you risk losing money if you gamble with good players. Or when you lose to your own fault that you put your tail between your legs, whimper in the corner, and accept your fault. Goes to show how evil, money really is.
what I don't get is that they know about edge sorting but these cards are still made like that? why not just make the back of the cards identical so this nonsense can't happen? pretty stupid to call someone a cheat when they've done nothing but use their brain and eyes...
I agree with Ivey. Since anyone else at the table could make the same requests he did, it's fair play. Besides, a player who knows the same tricks could take advantage of Ivey's edge-sorted deck and use it against him. Act like they're oblivious so he doesn't realize they have the same advantage he does.
He lost the british case. Really bad judgment. Like others have said, if he lost his money the casinos would still be his best friend. it's bullshit. It'll be interesting if he wins the Borgata case having lost the other one.
+bizmark D he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam. this is why hes a cheater. if the casino normally used those cards, and he just caught onto it and cleaned them out, then thats on the casino. in this situation, they accommodated him thinking it was just superstition, and they were happy to get the publicity of having him there.
+JamesMichaelDoyle its still on the casino. They provided the cards, they knew why he was asking for these things they were just banking on the fact he would lose. If using your brain is cheating then I guess he is a cheater.
Can the casino prove that they werent aware of the flaw in the deck? Perhaps the allowed phil to attempt his "scam" knowing they had legal recourse if phil was successful. I guess it seems cheating as much as noticing another sloppy players hole cards and using that information. Some are fine doing that, others are not, but its not a scam set up by the "cheater." If the casino agreed on the terms and then get upset because of the advantage gained ( by phil) because of those terms, that seems a bit off.
Wellness81 yeah because thats how this works right? the thought police KNOW what you are thinking, and dont need evidence. its not a matter of "if" he would be successful, do you not understand that? for the same reasons people hate the casinos, the odds were stacked in his favour. couple that with his skill level, he was going to come out ahead. he literally cheated. edge sorting is cheating by everyones standards. the fact that he didnt personally mark the deck is not relevant. its like playing a game of football where one team can field 8 players, and the other team can only field 5. all players are about the same calibre of skill. sure the 5 man team might score a few points, but at the end of the game they will lose. i dont understand how people are still claiming the casino knew, or should have known. the card decks in question are certified casino grade. thats the entire purpose of the certification process, is that it gaurantees flawless cards for the casinos to use. how the fuck would they know there was miniscule flaws? its not like they used that brand. you are basically saying that its the consumers fault for defective equipment that they buy from a manufacturer, because hey, they agreed to pay that price for the product. you should have known that they were lying about the quality of production. duh! its fucking certified decks. thats the bottom line. why would they refuse that request? they got them from the manufacturer, not the players, why would they suspect anything wrong with the cards? honestly answer that question before continuing to assert that they did , or should or probably knew.
Makes no difference whether they knew about the flaws. None. Zero. There was no cheating. Ivey had more information that's all. He took advantage of it. No different than card counting in black jack which also isn't cheating. You got it wrong.
I don't want to disrespect him. I really like his play style and admire his skills, but.. is he actually gifted or the skills just naturally come if you play this ridiculous amount of time in the life ? I am just curious.
The motion to throw out the suit was dismissed so it is still going forward. The fact that he was not arrested now was he charged by the casino with cheating is a strong factor in his favor. The wording of the lawsuit may give the judge a lot of leeway in ruling it is not cheating. Now whether edge sorting is specifically listed in Borgat's rules and policies will be the key. Of course cheating is explicitly listed as against the rules. but is Edge sorting mentioned, and more specifically since Phil did not mark the cards, the legal dominos could very fall in his favor
i totally agree with ivey,,,I've long been appalled that a casino can throw blackjack card counters out...its your house, your rules, your cards, your everything. the player comes into your house with his money and brains, that's it. if he outsmarts you, tough shit.
He didnt "cheat". He just requested for things that would benefit him and they gave it to him. How is that his fault? They could of checked the decks for uneven edges. He only played them better than they played him and there pissed. Casino's are rigged to let you win but know your going to continue then they take it all back. (slots). Cards you can actually out play them if your smart.
Phil is lucky as fuck he lives in the time period he does. Had he tried this before Vegas became "Disneyland for Degenerates" people would still be searching the desert for his unmarked grave. Lol
He didn't break any laws but too advantage of the defect cards which the casinos didn't know at that time. The verdict is the casinos should get refund.
Never mind the fact the casino let him pick a dealer, let the dealer place the cards as he wanted, the pit boss, and floor managers let the casino do it for several shifts and I believe 3 days. Of course if he had last the casino would have kept the money. The casino never thought he would actually win. never mind all this, the good analogy I heard was that this is the same as stealing the sign from the catcher in baseball. complete BS on the one sided rulings the courts have made so far
The casinos just have to pay. He played for a long time and at any time they could have said that they didn't want him at the casino anymore and payed his winnings so far but they didn't. They allowed him to continue so they need to accept that they lost.
My opiniom It is ok when you do edge sorting without having other ppl ading you. I mean if you have discovered some irregular in the cards then it is up to you to just take advantage of the situation on your own & the worst a casino could do, if they find out, is to kick & ban you from their casino but when you conspire with other ppl especially one of the casino own dealer then it is more like a cheating scheme.
9:38, they accuse him of edge sorting, then it says its not illegal, but it is frowned apon!!! why are they sueing him?? he did nothing wrong!!!! pay the guy then ban him from that casino!! end of story
15:30 "Cheating is using a device or having INFORMATION available that both parties aren't somethingsomething to" Speaking mandarin to the dealer so he could assist them, isn't that getting information the Casino doesn't agree with?
the casino management should be fired for not setting a limit on his winning to match what he wired.then its fair all out war for the kitty.I can't see why the casinos cry foul after the fact
Even if the casino agreed, he himself stepped into this with the aid of an asian companian and requested and asian and card shuffling machine. Dangerous and risky for a guy at his level.
+penzman It does seem stupid. It's essentially like card counting in black jack in my mind (so not cheating), but that Ivey thought this would be a good idea stumps me. I guess he got him a pretty huge pay day, but he's set up already and he should just play more poker if he needs extra cash. I don't understand how he doesn't see that even if he wasn't cheating, this does ruin his reputation for many houses. It was monumentally stupid for the casinos to allow this to happen, but at the same time I would have thought these kind of scams were beneath Phil.
If a casino that has baccarat is not aware that there is such a thing as "edge sorting" especially from a player that asks for a certain brand of cards then they are simply too stupid to exist and should be out of business... it's Dawinism for casinos... only the strong and smart survive.
Clever guy, sounds like the casinos thought they could out smart him . They got owned and now are crying a river. They know he plays a game of cards now and again ffs.
The stupidity of it all is how can you sue somebody over doing something LEGAL? LOL! Usually or ALWAYS when you sue somebody it's for somebody violating or breaking a rule or law which is ILLEGAL. But, this is the time in history I've ever heard of a corporation suing somebody over doing something LEGAL lol! Absolutely stupid and ridiculous. What Phil Ivey did was LEGAL because THEY CONSENTED TO HIS REQUESTS. So, if you are suing Ivey over your own consented rules and agreements that's the equilavent of you suing yourself lol! This isn't even a case, Ivey not only wins this case, but it'll be the FASTEST and EASIEST decision in court history. And as smart as Ivey is, he might think about countersuing them for pain and suffering lol.
+Brad Mundie's Except he did. "Not in poker," he said, implying that that racism still affects other aspects of his life, which is almost certainly untrue, unless he resents the extra measure of respect he gets for being black.
when a casino accuses someone of cheating, 99% of the time it means that person actually walked out with money instead of losing it
+Sup3rShann0n i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
+JamesMichaelDoyle See, even still, i don't see anything wrong w/that. The house has the edge 99% of the time; If you're clever enough & have the pull to tilt the odds in your favor, & get the edge on the house, if they don't catch you in the act (since they allowed him to play on those specific terms) then Ivey should be praised for what he did because he found a way to beat the odds.
Casinos take millions every single *hour* from poor shmucks who either don't have control over what they're doing because they're in the throws of a severe gambling addiction, or don't know what they're doing because they're shit-faced, black-out drunk. They not only allow these people to play, they encourage it. They're taking advantage of peoples' flaws & exploiting them. How is Ivey's act of taking advantage of the casino's flaws in their system any different? I'll tell you how; Ivey isn't hurting anyone or destroying anyone's life. Trust me, whatever amount Ivey took home that day, that casino made back in 1/2 an hour.
Sup3rShann0n the difference is, that the house does not gain the advantages through trickery, everyone walking in knows the rules, and what the deal is.
it does not matter whether or not a casino will make the money back quickly(and they most certainly do not make 12 million dollars per hour in profit). the fact of the matter is he cheated. edge sorting is forbidden, for both the house and the casino. thats why casinos will only use certified casino grade cards. tricking the casino into using marked cards, regardless of whether you marked them personally or not is still cheating.
he cheated, and now is crying about being called a cheat. hes a fucking wanker.
+JamesMichaelDoyle the casinos could have said no to using the cards but they didnt so its on them. what phil ivey did is not cheating plain and simple.
Pete Kovacich they had no reason to say no. they were certified "casino grade" which means no flaws. thats how this all worked. the card company is likely fucked now that this happened.
did he do anything criminal? no. but he most certainly did CHEAT. so him crying about being called a cheat is laughable.
"He beat me ... straight up ... Pay him ... pay that man his money" - Teddy KGB
casino game + casino's cards + casino's dealer = casinos responsibility
+Bud Grant Sorry to bud in here , but reading your comment that Phil ' LOST ' his case Boggles my mind.?!? Unless you were just joking around.??.... but if you were being serious , then that is really pathetic.!! And I say that based solely on the word of Phil in this interview. Obviously if the jury heard something else , something that Phil was not being totally honest about ....then Okay , I could see the casino winning. But IF what Phil was saying is the Truth ..??.. then that ruling is Brutal.!!
+Jeannine Gagné he has not lost the case in new jersey
+jimmy shine I didn't think so , thanks for the reply. cheers
6:16 He became known as "the black kid who played poker all day long"
I wonder why that nickname didn't stick.
Coffee12341 because he stoped being kid.
Božidar Čekić Nah man. He stopped being black.
Nor Norranun sound like he was being sarcastic to me...stop taking things so literal.
+Nor Norranun saying he stopped being black is racist? How exactly is that? Look up the definition of racist
+Božidar Čekić Kid Poker is still called Kid Poker...
Ivey is a BOSS
The Moral Crusader Agreed, Ivey did nothing more than exploit weaknesses in a system. I would be interested to know what people think of this analogy - In a lawn tennis match one player exploits a lump in the grass by repeatedly hitting at it and giving his opponent bad bounces, cheating or fair game?
Well I think that Ivey found a "lump" in the card design, he should be paid.
PPt_EaL I like the analogy. Keeping in mind it takes extreme talent to hit that spot
"At the poker table, they only see one color that's green."
(Phil) If a person can be that observant on minor imperfections on the cards and remember the order of the imperfections, he deserve's to win the money. That's incredible.
Alameda Jon exactly I couldn't do it would take years of practice hours a day so that makes it a skill
That's not what he did. He had a sidekick, a woman who spoke Mandarin. So, they requested, and were granted, a dealer who also spoke Mandarin. The sidekick would communicate her wishes to the dealer, citing superstition as an excuse, and have the dealer spin certain cards 180 degrees once they were face up. Then, when the cards went back into the shuffler to prepare for the next round, certain cards would be facing one way, and others would be facing the opposite, so that a skilled eye could determine, not exactly what the first card of the next hand was, but, rather, that it was one of a select group of cards which would either grant the 'Player's' side an advantage or not. Then they would bet accordingly. Very ingenious, but poorly executed (or they wouldn't have been caught).
@biggawinnacrapsa3870 Kelly Sun.
A 5-6% advantage is significant. It's about the same advantage the casino has on every spin of the American roulette wheel.
Casinos are always like this. If you keep winning they will kick you out. They don't care if you are cheating or not. Why anyone goes to casinos is beyond me. Would you play with a friend who always kicked you out or accused you of cheating when you keep winning? That's what a casino will do.
You are so full of shit it's coming out your ears.
I can't believe he lost these lawsuits. It's really disturbing.
Sounds like the casinos equally gambled with Phil, they just lost and now are being cheats.
+Tony Seagle i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
+JamesMichaelDoyle So what? He requested, they agreed.
FPVSpace he cheated. regardless if they agreed. they agreed to fair play. he tricked into stacking in his favour.
hes a cheater, thats what.
+JamesMichaelDoyle Phil requested the 'marked' deck and the casino agreed. The expert in the 60 minutes segment is on the spot when he said that " the casinos did it for him". It is the casinos fault that they walked into the trap. The Borgata allowed the scam to proceed for 4 months without flinching. It seems that the casinos staff was on weed.
JamesMichaelDoyle Nobody has said that the casinos knowingly let Phil win. As for a specific brand of cards, the casinos should have known about the defect. If they didn't, it is their ineptness.
Lets say theoretically that Ivey lost that 3 mill. and tried to sue the casino for the same reason? The casino would say GFY and laugh their way to the bank.
All-in-all, its pretty obvious that it's very much the casino's fault by facilitating the request to essentially allow him to edge sort. by using a specific type of card back. Don't want your players edge sorting? Don't use an asymetrical card back- real fucking simple.
If he could of lost his money he should also have been able to win.
Exactly, if he lost, they wouldn't have said shit or made a big deal out of it
Catherineone '' he could of lost'' ''he should also have(hew you got it right here) been''
+Catherineone If he could've* lost his money, he should also have been able to win.
+G June36 u a bitch
+Catherineone i thought the same but then the details came out. he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
I can’t wait for somebody to make this a movie or limited Tv series
KGB would say "pay that man his money he beat me straight up"
The casinos failed epicly... Ivey will all those request told them : Hey, i'm going to exploit every trick i can to get your money. And they said : OK, bring it on...
And now they are like cry babies for being tricked
True
Pay him... pay that man his money. (Russian accent)
....while twisting apart an Oreo cookie in a red running suit
the decision against ivey is an absolute joke
Fucking bullshit!!! Pay the man his money!!!
Michael Solis Calm down....and he lost, he will NOT get his money
Art Faucet Noooooo!!!
+Boondock Saint In my club, I will splash...the pot...wheneva...the fak...I plwease
Aunini He beat me, straight app
I was expecting a 50min interview with Ivey, lol.
As for the law suit...what a load of BS! It's the casinos job to check all the decks to assure they have no defects.
And it's also the job of the people who packages the decks of cards.
He colluded with Asian woman to read the cards defects and if its true she was communicating with the dealer , it was obviously part of his scheme , therefore unfair at the very least to other players and the Casino didn't agree he could use her as an AID or TOOL so HE could PROFIT , that's straight up collusion .
+SACTICAL BAG You can't "collude" on a game between the house and separate players (like blackjack, for instance), only in games with player interaction. And from what we can tell, the Asian merely asked the dealer to flip the cards a certain way. That's not cheating, at all.
They tricked the dealer into helping them. A con job
"He's a sharp".......yeah I think the term that guy is looking for is "shark"
Typical bullshit casino activity.
Just give him the money and chalk it up as a lesson learned.
lol casinos scam millions of dollers a day, and they got outplayed they sook...
7:10 pretty standard interviewer trying to get ivey to play the race card. shut down!
How could they comply when Ivey asked for a specific type of deck. Shouldn't alarm bells go off in some casino executive's mind?
I've never liked Phil Ivey. With that being said, the casinos are WAAAY out of line here.
Same here. I've never liked Ivey.
He didn't touch the cards. It's as simple as that. Ivey outsmarted them. Period.
say what you want but phil is a very humble and classy guy very intelligent. and for cheating bs they agreed to his terms who feels bad for a casino they rob people everyday. how many times have you turned on the news and saw someone hit a jackpot and the casino say the machine
malfunctioned
I wouldn't call what Ivey did "Cheating".
I seriously doubt that a judge would either.
Just pay the man and get it over with
this wouldn't even be an issue if Ivey lost money doing it. Casinos love card counters, because plenty of people suck at it and end up losing money. they only hate the brilliant card counters who actually can take the casinos money. funny how it works.
How could the 2 casinos be so stupid to grant a request for a particular brand of cards? Secondly, Phil Ivy played for 4 months at the Borgata and he was winning big. So, naturally, the valid question is why didn't it raise a red flag for the casino officials? It seems they goofed up.
the CASINO has the RESPONSIBILITY to buy and maintain their own decks of cards as well as sanctioning their own chips and managing their own dealers, including table managers and pit bosses... if the CASINO failed to keep all of these factors up to date and in-check, then it's the CASINOS RESPONSIBILITY for whatever happens on the table during a live game. if Phil Ivey noticed a flaw in this system and decided to take advantage of it then he did NOT CHEAT or break any rules. he played the game that was being offered to him and he won.
its like 2 pros playing on a pool table for big money. One players knows that the table leans a certain way and doesnt say anything plus uses it to his advantage. To me, thats not cheating but just taking advantage.
18:08 when he says 100% he winks. It's not 100% legal.
Ivey and then Jeter,what a great show
They said he would mobbed with fans?? I seen ivey walking around freely in a casino and no one even bothered him.
+Tony Roberts Me too. I saw him at Aria and no one even care about him.
***** Probably, cuz he is known as a cheater. Overrated.
how did this go from phil ivey getting accused of cheating to baseball and swimming
the problem with the "card counting", advantage play or edge sorting argument is that the casino will happily take your money if you lose playing those strategies but complain if you win... and they will pretty much complain about any- and everything if you win and ban you from playing...
"Hanging around... Hanging around. Kid's got alligator blood...Can't get rid of him." - Teddy KGB
Not cheating, just smart. Casinos should realize they're in a risk business. As in you risk losing money if you gamble with good players. Or when you lose to your own fault that you put your tail between your legs, whimper in the corner, and accept your fault. Goes to show how evil, money really is.
what I don't get is that they know about edge sorting but these cards are still made like that? why not just make the back of the cards identical so this nonsense can't happen? pretty stupid to call someone a cheat when they've done nothing but use their brain and eyes...
I agree with Ivey. Since anyone else at the table could make the same requests he did, it's fair play. Besides, a player who knows the same tricks could take advantage of Ivey's edge-sorted deck and use it against him. Act like they're oblivious so he doesn't realize they have the same advantage he does.
He lost the british case. Really bad judgment. Like others have said, if he lost his money the casinos would still be his best friend. it's bullshit. It'll be interesting if he wins the Borgata case having lost the other one.
+bizmark D he found out a flaw in a brands manufacturing, and then asked the casinos to not only use those cards (which they normally dont) but also requesting them to turn them over in a particular way to allow him to pull this scam.
this is why hes a cheater. if the casino normally used those cards, and he just caught onto it and cleaned them out, then thats on the casino. in this situation, they accommodated him thinking it was just superstition, and they were happy to get the publicity of having him there.
+JamesMichaelDoyle its still on the casino. They provided the cards, they knew why he was asking for these things they were just banking on the fact he would lose.
If using your brain is cheating then I guess he is a cheater.
Can the casino prove that they werent aware of the flaw in the deck? Perhaps the allowed phil to attempt his "scam" knowing they had legal recourse if phil was successful.
I guess it seems cheating as much as noticing another sloppy players hole cards and using that information. Some are fine doing that, others are not, but its not a scam set up by the "cheater."
If the casino agreed on the terms and then get upset because of the advantage gained ( by phil) because of those terms, that seems a bit off.
Wellness81 yeah because thats how this works right? the thought police KNOW what you are thinking, and dont need evidence.
its not a matter of "if" he would be successful, do you not understand that? for the same reasons people hate the casinos, the odds were stacked in his favour. couple that with his skill level, he was going to come out ahead. he literally cheated. edge sorting is cheating by everyones standards. the fact that he didnt personally mark the deck is not relevant. its like playing a game of football where one team can field 8 players, and the other team can only field 5. all players are about the same calibre of skill. sure the 5 man team might score a few points, but at the end of the game they will lose.
i dont understand how people are still claiming the casino knew, or should have known. the card decks in question are certified casino grade. thats the entire purpose of the certification process, is that it gaurantees flawless cards for the casinos to use. how the fuck would they know there was miniscule flaws? its not like they used that brand. you are basically saying that its the consumers fault for defective equipment that they buy from a manufacturer, because hey, they agreed to pay that price for the product. you should have known that they were lying about the quality of production. duh!
its fucking certified decks. thats the bottom line. why would they refuse that request? they got them from the manufacturer, not the players, why would they suspect anything wrong with the cards? honestly answer that question before continuing to assert that they did , or should or probably knew.
Makes no difference whether they knew about the flaws. None. Zero. There was no cheating. Ivey had more information that's all. He took advantage of it. No different than card counting in black jack which also isn't cheating. You got it wrong.
I don't want to disrespect him. I really like his play style and admire his skills, but.. is he actually gifted or the skills just naturally come if you play this ridiculous amount of time in the life ? I am just curious.
The casino should sue the card manufacturer, not the customer using the equipment (cards) provided by the casino.
Did the guy say "Phil Ivey is a Shark" and then when the reporter said "what?", he said "Sharp"
+79Sarwar No he misheard him, he said sharp both times. Slang term.
Mad props to Phil Ivey. They need to pay him his $$
The Master Himself
Why is there such a big curb on his driveway?
Phil Ivey lost his court case in England.
The motion to throw out the suit was dismissed so it is still going forward. The fact that he was not arrested now was he charged by the casino with cheating is a strong factor in his favor. The wording of the lawsuit may give the judge a lot of leeway in ruling it is not cheating. Now whether edge sorting is specifically listed in Borgat's rules and policies will be the key. Of course cheating is explicitly listed as against the rules. but is Edge sorting mentioned, and more specifically since Phil did not mark the cards, the legal dominos could very fall in his favor
i totally agree with ivey,,,I've long been appalled that a casino can throw blackjack card counters out...its your house, your rules, your cards, your everything. the player comes into your house with his money and brains, that's it. if he outsmarts you, tough shit.
Did he win either of the law suits?
I wonder what kind of sacrifices were made
never been at Crockford, but will never step into Borgata again.
The casino in London needs to pay him. Phil owes me $116,000 and I need to settle up.
"Pay him, Pay that man his money"
does anyone know how this turned out? (ivey part)
the uk court decided it was cheating. dont know about the other casino
He didnt "cheat". He just requested for things that would benefit him and they gave it to him. How is that his fault? They could of checked the decks for uneven edges. He only played them better than they played him and there pissed. Casino's are rigged to let you win but know your going to continue then they take it all back. (slots). Cards you can actually out play them if your smart.
Scam or not gotta say Ivey is one hell of a genius player
Phil is lucky as fuck he lives in the time period he does. Had he tried this before Vegas became "Disneyland for Degenerates" people would still be searching the desert for his unmarked grave. Lol
when did poker become a sport .
It seems hard to believe that a casino wouldn't check a deck before dealing them to a high stakes player.
They granted his request so that's the casinos fault.
I'm pretty sure Ivey lost one of these lawsuits already if your interested.
If these casinos agreed to iveys terms why are they complaining?
He didn't break any laws but too advantage of the defect cards which the casinos didn't know at that time. The verdict is the casinos should get refund.
he beat me pay that man his money
Never mind the fact the casino let him pick a dealer, let the dealer place the cards as he wanted, the pit boss, and floor managers let the casino do it for several shifts and I believe 3 days. Of course if he had last the casino would have kept the money. The casino never thought he would actually win. never mind all this, the good analogy I heard was that this is the same as stealing the sign from the catcher in baseball. complete BS on the one sided rulings the courts have made so far
"The black kid that played poker all day long" HAHA should have kept that nickname.
that is complete BS. Ivey did not cheat. they agreed to his requests. i guarantee if he lost they take the money. boycott crockfords and borgata
good documentary..
The casinos just have to pay. He played for a long time and at any time they could have said that they didn't want him at the casino anymore and payed his winnings so far but they didn't. They allowed him to continue so they need to accept that they lost.
Ivey is a hell of a player man
great interview... i cant believe he lost the trial against crockford... unfucking believable..
Ivey is not cheating!! Give him the money!
Shady, but not illegal.
He's got a home in Macau? Uh oh!!!
My opiniom It is ok when you do edge sorting without having other ppl ading you. I mean if you have discovered some irregular in the cards then it is up to you to just take advantage of the situation on your own & the worst a casino could do, if they find out, is to kick & ban you from their casino but when you conspire with other ppl especially one of the casino own dealer then it is more like a cheating scheme.
9:38, they accuse him of edge sorting, then it says its not illegal, but it is frowned apon!!! why are they sueing him?? he did nothing wrong!!!! pay the guy then ban him from that casino!! end of story
So if you win too much money against the casino, they sue you, but if they win money against you (which happen to most cases), it's ok !
Ivey is too good I have no issue what he did. He asked for everything casino granted him.
He should be paid simple
In poker they only see one color, and thats green... what a G
Definitely NOT cheating !!
I bet all in on ivey's side winning in court. this is dirty borgata casino
15:30 "Cheating is using a device or having INFORMATION available that both parties aren't somethingsomething to"
Speaking mandarin to the dealer so he could assist them, isn't that getting information the Casino doesn't agree with?
+Martin Larsen If the dealer agreed to flip cards a certain way, then that is by extension Ivey and the casino agreeing to a system.
noex100 Ok
the casino management should be fired for not setting a limit on his winning to match what he wired.then its fair all out war for the kitty.I can't see why the casinos cry foul after the fact
Even if the casino agreed, he himself stepped into this with the aid of an asian companian and requested and asian and card shuffling machine.
Dangerous and risky for a guy at his level.
+penzman It does seem stupid. It's essentially like card counting in black jack in my mind (so not cheating), but that Ivey thought this would be a good idea stumps me. I guess he got him a pretty huge pay day, but he's set up already and he should just play more poker if he needs extra cash. I don't understand how he doesn't see that even if he wasn't cheating, this does ruin his reputation for many houses. It was monumentally stupid for the casinos to allow this to happen, but at the same time I would have thought these kind of scams were beneath Phil.
If a casino that has baccarat is not aware that there is such a thing as "edge sorting" especially from a player that asks for a certain brand of cards then they are simply too stupid to exist and should be out of business... it's Dawinism for casinos... only the strong and smart survive.
How come Derek Jeter didn't talk about his herpes ?
Clever guy, sounds like the casinos thought they could out smart him . They got owned and now are crying a river. They know he plays a game of cards now and again ffs.
The stupidity of it all is how can you sue somebody over doing something LEGAL? LOL! Usually or ALWAYS when you sue somebody it's for somebody violating or breaking a rule or law which is ILLEGAL. But, this is the time in history I've ever heard of a corporation suing somebody over doing something LEGAL lol! Absolutely stupid and ridiculous. What Phil Ivey did was LEGAL because THEY CONSENTED TO HIS REQUESTS. So, if you are suing Ivey over your own consented rules and agreements that's the equilavent of you suing yourself lol! This isn't even a case, Ivey not only wins this case, but it'll be the FASTEST and EASIEST decision in court history. And as smart as Ivey is, he might think about countersuing them for pain and suffering lol.
have poker players boycotted those casinos?
Casinos should go and get there fucking shinebox!
Casinos are scum. God forbid someome outsmarts you. Such bullshit they took his winnings.
Race? Why the fuck did this guy bring up race? At least Ivey answered like a man and didn't try to get sympathy for phantom racism.
+Brad Mundie's
Except he did. "Not in poker," he said, implying that that racism still affects other aspects of his life, which is almost certainly untrue, unless he resents the extra measure of respect he gets for being black.
Phil ivy should of told them I like to win, are you okay with that
"the black kid who played poker all day long" lmao