4 Stroke Piston Rings From A to Z || Identify, Install and Orient Gaps CORRECTLY!
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- If you want to install your 4 stroke dirt bike piston rings correctly, this is your video. I will show you how to orient the piston rings correctly, install your piston rings and make sure each piston ring is aligned correctly. After watching this video, you will be confident that you can do your own piston rings correctly.
Special Thanks to: www.TBoltUSA.com
New Website: www.BrianMobley.com (still working on that...!)
★TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:43 TBoltUSA Parts Used
1:00 Ring Design Differences Between 2 and 3 Groove Pistons
2:49 Identifying Piston Orientation
4:08 Preparation and Features Common to Both a 2 and a 3 Groove Piston
5:38 3 Groove Piston Rings Installation
9:20 A Word on Ring Gap Orientation
10:21 2 Groove Piston Rings Installation
12:52 THANK YOU FOR WATCHING!
TBoltUSA Tech Link: tboltusa.com/store/tech.php?p...
Good Article on rings. blog.wiseco.com/2nd-ring-purpo...
Good Article on INSTALLING rings: www.jepistons.com/blog/how-to...
Good Article on Rings: blog.wiseco.com/motorcycle-pis... - Авто та транспорт
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After watching for more than 25 videos, I was so much confused about where should be the position of the ring. But after watching your video, my concept regarding the placement and direction of piston rings is completely cleared. Thanks a lot
So glad I could help you with that! Thanks for watching!
Me to i was also confused as f 😂
Finally a video that talks about profiles of comp ring vs scraper. I have a stack of. Various brands data sheets and looked through 2 factory service manuals and 3 other clymers can't really tell which is which. Now I can. Thankyou
Hey Dave! Glad the video helped!! Thanks for watching.
Thank you explaining waffle ring orientation with waffle being open and not overlapping was key no one I’ve come across so far has brought that up and I was racking my brain thank you
Glad I could help, Omar! Those rings are tricky and technical. Thanks for watching!
By far the best instruction I've seen anywhere for setting up a piston. I received mine in the mail with zero instructions and I can't be more grateful for how easy you made it!! Thank you!!!!!!
Thanks Al! I’m so glad it helped you. I even rewatch this one myself on occasion to refresh my memory! 😂 Thanks for watching!
Thanks for actually SHOWING us. Some many people are just skipping this part and not really showing us. Which is annoying knowing we are looking at video for help, lol.
Thanks tho. Great video!
Hey Full Pay! I’m so glad it helped you. I’m not 100% happy with a few technical issues with video (mostly soft focus issues) but I tried hard to make it orderly and correct! Glad it helped you! More stuff coming soon!
Thanks for sharing you couldnt have done it any better the sound and light and instruction was on the money
Thanks Jeff! Youre very kind. I was not too happy with some of the focus problems I had in this video so I bought some new equipment so I would have better control of that in future videos. But, I am glad you found it useful despite its shortcomings! Thanks for watching!
thank you for this video! you describe all the components and what needs to be done generally enough for me to use the information for my application. I really appreciate it as I had to look thorough many videos with confusing descriptions.
Solid! Simple! Complete and accurate!
Awesome. Thank you.
So glad you found it useful! Thank you for watching. 😀
All I can say is thanks Brian for this video I was not sure of doing my own for the first time but after watching I’m very sure now, an again thanks
Thanks Chris! Glad it helped. I was a little unhappy with some of the closeup focus in this video which prompted me to buy a new lens afterward! So to me, this video has good dialog but not so good videography! Still, Im glad it helped and thanks for the kind words!
perfect timing. I am working on my pit bike top end this weekend.
Hey Ali! So glad I could help! I hope the video is useful.
Precisely explained and very helpful sir.
So glad you found it useful! I wasn’t happy with the camera I used to make that video as it did not maintain focus very well, but at least the it covers the essentials. Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for making it so simple. I feel confident I can get this done now.
You can do it! It’s just following steps and being careful!
Thanks great vid watched it as I installed all the rings
Bike runs no smoke or blow by☺️👌
Thats awesome Jazz! Glad it helped you! Thank you for watching. Working on a new video this week that I hope to have posted no later than Sunday. Check it out if you have time!
Best explanation ever .. so simple ..thanks
So kind of you! Thanks Chris!
Thanks buddy! Just what I needed
Hey David! I’m so glad that it helped!
Perfectly guide!!!!.. thank you.love from india.
Hey Paresh! Glad it helped! Thanks for the nice comment! And, thank you for watching!
VERY COOL !! EXCELLENT JOB !!
Thanks Vince! Hope it serves your purposes! Love TBoltUSA! You guys are rockstars!
Excellent. So helpful when you get a box of rings and a piston with no instructions
Hey Deborah! That really made me laugh! I recently installed a completely new and upgraded suspension on a pit bike I have been building and got ZERO instruction! So, I get it! Thanks for commenting and watching!
Top class video. You spent best effort on tutorial. Worth to see.
Thank you so much SAM! I put a lot of time in on this one to try to get everything right! Thank you for watching and hope it helped you!
@@brian.d.mobley :)
Thank you so much a great teacher indeed
That’s so nice of you! Thanks! Thanks for watching!
Tq sir. You made my life easier. My headache is gone.
Happy to help! Thanks for watching!
Best vid on you tube thanks for posting
Thanks so much, Fernando! I’ve always been disappointed by the sharpness of the video in this one. The camera I used was supposedly made for shooting UA-cam content but it never worked well for me. Switching camera later Site improved the quality of more recent videos. Thanks for watching and for the nice comment !!
amazing job bro
Hi Majid! Thanks! In what country do you live?
Thank you good information 👍
Thanks so much Ravi!
Great teaching brother
Thanks so much. The camera I had back then didn’t do close shots very well and I was never too happy with the video quality.
Gr8 video < Thankyou >
Thanks Kyle. I was happy with the content in this one, but not with the camera I used to film it all. Bad focusing problems. But, thanks for taking the time to share some positive feedback!
Great explanation
Thanks Sarah!
Thanks for this information sir. Greetings from Indonesia🙂
Hey Handy! Thanks for watching!
Great work
Hey Moto Girl! Thanks! You are always so supportive.
I wish that I have seen this Video prior to installing the rings to my Murray Riding Lawn Mover 13.5 HP. The engine runs but too much smoke. I have to redo the installation using your guide. I hope that it will works (no more smoke!). Thanks for a very good video.
What a bummer. Hopefully it’s not too much work to correct the issue.
You may need to use brand new piston rings.
Good info thank bro
Thanks BR! Glad you found it useful!
amazing video thanks from ARGENTINA....
Thanks Alex!! Im not super happy with some of the focus in this one, but the content is solid. I bought a new lens after I did this video so I could produce sharper images in the future. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to make a kind comment!
@@brian.d.mobley thanks a lot im restoring an honda xr 100 1995 and I dont idea!!!!! Jesus
@@alelinares4663 Im doing a 1978 Honda CT70 now and its way harder than most dirt bikes I've! I feel your pain!
Thank you very much
Sure! Hope it helped!
I bought a Niche piston for my Honda 300ex. The side that is marked "IN" has smaller valve cutouts than the other side (exhaust).
HI Charlie. Thats a first! If you search "why are exhaust valves smaller than intake valves," there is a wealth of information supporting online regarding the reasons for the disparity. Why the 300EX breaks this norm, I cannot explain. But, I would research it a little to see what you find. If it were me, I would look in the factory service manual for clarity. Thanks so much for watching and let me know if you find the reason why the 300EX is not the same configuration as virtually all other pistons.
Nice one excellent
Thank you! That was a complicated video to make. Thank for watching!
Brian, this is super! I just took apart my Polaris Trail Boss 330 and had wondered about the oil rings as the manual just notes to space the rings at 120 apart. Do you have a good reference for a DIY ring compressor? These Fuji engines don't have studs to slide the head over so thinking I can get some long bolts and cut the heads off just for somethign to hold the head in place, then maybe a ring compressor from some flashing and a hose clamp? Or just use fingers to compress as the base of the head is chamfered.
Hi Chris. I have used my fingers to good effect! But, you could cut on the long axis something like a cardboard tube in the center of a paper towel roll and squeeze the rings that way. Your idea of flashing could work too. Most of the pistons I use are small and I dont need an special ring compressor though. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
Ur a saviour
Haha! Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!
Gap piston ideal to liner?
Thanks
Glad to help! Thanks for watching!
Would this apply to all 4 stroke dirt bike engines ie honda 650r ...also very clear to understand thankyou
Hey Victor. I have not seen any 4 stroke dirt bike that is different. But, the best thing to do is confirm with your bike’s service manual. Thank you for the nice comment and for watching!
Many many tnx
Glad it helped you George! Thanks for watching!
I only used 2 oil rings on my Toyota 1.8 the spring ring and a solid one will it be ok ? I left the 3 rd ring out because it was too tight
If 3 rings came out, 3 rings need to go back in.
Maybe you can help me. Have a tbolt 146cc big bore kit that I have installed. I’m 90% sure I have the rings correct.. I haven’t fired it up but have done a compression test and it’s only showing 90psi.. Also have a brand new big valve head from tbolt as well so I can’t imagine it’s getting leakage from the valves. I’ve checked timing more times than I can count. I just don’t know why I’m only getting about 90psi compression.
Hi Josh. Like so many questions, it could be a lot of things! 90% is not a high level of confidence for the level of work I expect from myself, so rings would be the first thing I would check. Obviously you should check compression with both vale’s closed as well. Leaking gaskets can be a cause as can a number of things. I’d start with the rings and it’s just trial and error to eliminate variables and isolate the root cause.
you need to gap new rings? nice video!
Hi Topher! I covered ring gapping in another video, but I have yet to find a new set of rings that needed end gap adjustment, so I just quit checking that measurement. I’m pretty picky and generally check every tolerance covered in the service manuals, but based on experience, I’ve just found checking the ring gap to be a waste of time. Don’t let me discourage you however! If you want to be sure, by all means, check it! Thanks for watching!
Does it matter if the butted ends of the oil ring are facing up or down?
Hi Gallio. Good question. So let me answer in the safest way that I can! I doubt it! However, I always orient the gap with the ends of the wavy middle oil ring facing down simply because that is how I have seen it done. The purpose of that wavy ring is to spread oil so its not for sealing. Therefore, its orientation is not likely to have any effect on anything.
Hi do the rings rotate around while engine in motion
Apparently they do, yes.
Hello, do oil rings have markings on them telling you what way they face? Or does it matter what way they face?
Hi Dtdyysg! They are not marked in my experience and are bi directional (so you can put them on with any side facing up). Thank you for watching!
@@brian.d.mobley thanks!
So this is how I would orient my rings on my 90cc 4 stoke pit bike ?
Hi Stephanie! I have only seen one engine where this configuration is not specified by the manufacturer. You should consult the service manual for your specific bike, but for at least 95% of the small 4 strokes, this is the correct procedure. Thank you for watching!
Great 🎉
Thanks Sunevel!
Hi I have a question 🙂 in the first piston all gaps is separated of the others. But on the second piston the gap for the compression ring is aligned with the oil ring you think thr is no a compression lick? Thanks for you future answer
Hi Akilez: Take another look at the second piston configuration, please. The most crucial element with end gap alignment (as the video states) is that you do not have end gaps aligning on adjacent rings. On the second ring, the compression ring is oriented 90 degrees from the end gap of the top most oil ring.
@@brian.d.mobley thanks for answer so it's ok if the compression ring is aligned with the bottom ring?
@@akilez777 It is, provided the ring next to any other ring has some gap - the greater the gap, generally, the better.
Dang ok thx
It seems the oem oil ring on the KTM mx bikes is slightly different, in that it comprises of a coiled spring with solid single strand wire within it, that then has perforated ring sitting on the periphery of the inner spring ring.
The coiled spring slides over its internal wire until the ends butt together,in much the same way as the waffle style ring in your examples, but it looks like the perforated ring is expected to compress the first rings coils with some force as the entire assembly of the two rings is much larger than the piston diameter? It is so extreme that i would not expect a tapered ring fitting tool like the weisco one to be a good tool to use!! Is this your take as well?
Since it’s so unusual, I would just consult the factory service manual for installation guidance.
Brian, the manual gives a maximum ring gap and not a minimum, and then says fit with the special tool, which is a compressed wrap around shim style tool. When I get my barrel back from the platers, I will fit the new rings with plenty of running in oil, and see if the oil ring spring behaves any differently than the old one is in the old piston, with no oil. Hopefully it will compress more readily once oiled, and all will be well.
Hello. I have honda ct90 1973, Can you help me buy correct rings? Cus I found they have different size: 025, 0.50... Thank you,
Im not familiar with ring sizes on a CT90 and I have gotten out of the practice of offering suggestions on bikes that I cant see in person. Its too risky and I’d hate to accidentally give incorrect information on something I couldn’t personally evaluate.
@@brian.d.mobley I understand. Maybe you can make a new video to explain how to select right rings, There are different sizes: 0.50, 0.75... How to know what size we need for? Thank you.
interesting I always thought that the comp. ring and the scraper ting had to be 180d apart from one another
Hey James. So…. A little secret. I produced this video based on Honda’s ring spacing recommendations. When I make my videos I generally make them in accordance with manufacturers recommendations. That said, you are probably 100% fine to space the two rings 180 degrees apart. The most critical issue is that no two gaps are open in the same position along the longitudinal axis of the piston. Rings move a little on their own and the gaps will never be the same upon breakdown as they were at the time of installation. There. Its out in the world now! Secret is no longer secret!
where did you get that print out with the ring orientation at 8:58. I'd love to print it and have it in my shop for when I'm having helpers.
I made that up myself. I can email it to you.
@@brian.d.mobleyare you on social media at all? I don’t want to post my email here to the public lol
I think I must have overlapped my rings while putting the jug on. What would be the tell tale sign of this, white smoke from the head breather indicating blow by?
Hi Stone. I am not familiar with a “head breather.” If the ring gaps were inadvertently aligned in the same plane, the usual affects are; hard starting, excessive exhaust smoke, poor acceleration, oil consumption and plug fouling. White smoke is often the result of water mixing with spent combustion gases. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching!!
Sorry, I meant valve cover breather hose, there is no oil coming out of the hose however and no smoke from exhaust.
@@Stone881 It’s never easy to diagnose engine issues without the motor in front of you, but white smoke is an indicator that water is mixing with spent gases.
@@brian.d.mobley Thanks Brian!
Hi, Thanks for video.
Marks are gone as I am reusing piston rings. How can I identify TAPER ring?
Hey Sam! Oh gosh! Buddy, I don’t want to steer you wrong by giving you incorrect information. In short, if you didn’t note the orientation upon removal, it’s a risk. You can TRY looking at the end view of the ring gap to analyze the distal and proximal ring height, but I would just get new rings. I wish I could be more assertive with an answer, but I’m just very cautious with these types of things because I absolutely hate to make mistakes.
@@brian.d.mobley Thanks for your time, It matters a lot for me . I can understand that one mistake of wrong orientation of ring and piston will force oil into combustion chamber instead scraping it from walls. For me I tried to see rings ends at zoom + phone flash light. There is no sign of tapering.
For safety of motorcycle and other components I ordered a complete cylinder kit. I wish for best.
Thanks again for giving such huge amount of time to your viewer.
@@brian.d.mobley *Subscribed*
@@brian.d.mobley My Yamaha support says they do not sell child parts like rings, They will only sell Cylinder +piston+ rings kit.
@@Sam-to1zg Thanks to YOU, my friend!! I appreciate your question and taking the time to comment. I wish I could have helped more, but I think you made a wise decision just replacing the parts with new ones. Its a lot of work to do the same job again if you get it wrong.
Does the marking on the piston always go on top? Because if I put it that way then what should say "in" it says "ni." Otherwise of I put the marking on the bottom (exhaust side) then it says in. It's like it was stamped backwards? I ask because I'm on my second TBOLT piston and cylinder and can't get rid of piston slap and my timing is dead on.
Hi Jason. “In” is a mark denoting the intake side of a piston. Piston slap is inflated and is a function of the gap bw the outside of the piston and the bore being too great.
@@brian.d.mobley I figured that but every piston I've gotten from TBOLT is then marked backwards because when placed on the intake side, it will spell "NI" instead of "IN" and both pistons were labeled like this. Also the piston and cylinder are both brand new so the gap bw of piston and cylinder shouldn't be a problem. Timing is on the T mark and the divots on cam sprocket and head. I'm wondering if I've got a bad rod bearing but the motors not even a year old yet.
@@brian.d.mobley Also the new pistons, rings and cylinder only have like 1.5 hours of idle time. It's all brand new.
Does my concern about the piston stamping make sense? Customer service at TBOLT doesn't seem to understand? I believe the correct side of the piston is stamped, just stamped backwards somehow and because of that I'm just trying to be reassured that the stamped side still goes up (intake) and not down (exhaust) so that it read right.
@@JasonBohl Im very reluctant to give advice on these days on things I don’t have in front of me. I don’t want to be responsible for any one else’s work. But I will just add that, in my estimation, and IN and a NI are just a function of the orientation of the viewer on the stamping. I covered information about evaluating the size of piston relief cutouts in the video. Maybe revisit that information for more clarity.
NO MUSIC PLEASE- it only makes it hard to hear you. Nice video!
Hey Jeff. Noted! I cant change the music level after the video is on UA-cam, but your comment is appreciated. Im always looking to improve! Thank you for watching!
Off subject, would anybody know why a pit bike will run for a couple of minutes great but then just cuts off? Everything electrical has been changed and the carb was also changed and valve lash was checked.
Hey David. That symptom is common if you have a clogged fuel tank vent. If you are running a fuel filter and it’s old, that’s another cause for that condition
@@brian.d.mobley I appreciate you commenting back so quickly. When I pull the fuel line off of the carb and turn the petcock valve it flows great. The vent on the fuel cap is not restricted either.
It does this when the engine warms up and after it cools a little it will start again. Could I have a crack somewhere in the head? I’m at a loss.
@@davidmorgan8612 On stock Hondas, there is (as far as I know!) always a hard rubber spacer between the carb and the manifold. This is designed to keep the carb from overheating. Often times, when people modify their pit bikes, they remove this spacer which can also cause the condition you describe.
Why is my motorcycle burning oil ,after installing new rings
Most likely improper ring gap alignment. But there could be a million reasons. Thanks for watching!
How to fix trycycle pistols and rings
Not sure what you mean. Good luck!
how do butt the spacer can explain a little bit more for this new bulider lol thanks great video btw
Hi Ducboi. I’m so sorry, but I’m not sure I recall any spacer…. Can you clarify?
@@brian.d.mobley hey thanks for your reply! The wavy ring the 2nd one front the bottom. The one you were saying to make sure their button not overlap.
@@ducaduke Gotcha! Just remember on that ring (the oil ring) the wavy ends do not OVERLAP, they butt against each other. Does that makes sense? You don’t want the ends intertwined. The ends should be free and not connected or overlapped.
@@brian.d.mobley oooohhhh got it! Thanks for that. This is actually the first time I have ever disassemble and planning hoping praying 🙏🏼 to rebuild it lol. So I appreciate you clearly that up for me. It’s been a dream of mine to get into my ktm. Thanks for helping me.
@@ducaduke Take your time. Double check everything! Use a service manual as you go and you should be fine. We all had to do our first one at one point!
PLEASE DO A CR 85 CRANK SEAL REPLACEMENT ON THE CLUTCH SIDE
Please ...traduction option...thanks😢
Hi Mario. I don’t know what traduction means. Sorry.
@@brian.d.mobley hi and congratulation for your channel. I mean that for this video there aren't thentranslation option (for example in italian)...it's very in-depth technical content
@@mariosperanza9050 Im so sorry, but it would take so much time to do that translation and I just dont have extra time for that now.
do rings really rotates while running?
I cant confirm that 100%, but from my understanding, yes. I have never read any literature specific to this topic, but many knowledgeable mechanics have assured me that rotation does occur.
@@brian.d.mobley just follow up question is there any problem if i installed or stag the 1st and 2nd compression ring on the exhaust side and the oil rings stag on the intake side
Im not sure what "stag" means, but as long as the ring gaps are not installed in the same plane, youre probably fine.
@@brian.d.mobley i mean if i clock the 1st and 2nd compression ring on the exhaust side not on the intake, and the oil rings on the intake not on the exhaust side, it's like a reverse procedure like you do
I want to help, but "stag" and "clock" are just not terms that I familiar with in relation to piston rings. I think you are are asking about gap location for the top two rings and the oil rings. Provided that none of the gaps are in the same plane or, in alignment with one another, you likely won't have any issues with the rings.
👍👍🥰🥰🥰🥰♥️
Thanks
I just staggered the gaps on the rings didnt pay attention to 6 7 8 o clock shouldnt matter. As long as all the gaps are not aligned
It’s a free country….
Thanks
For sure Mup! Glad it helped. Thanks for watching!