I have been burning wood for nearly 40 years and have always had a butterfly damper on all my wood stoves. It all comes down to dry firewood, under 20% moisture. Many people don’t realize how important it is not to burn wet/green wood. Your video illustrates what happens to your chimney when burning wet/green wood. Burning dry wood I haven’t had the problems you’ve mentioned. Thanks for making your videos
Me too and I don't use a damper and don't understand why one would ever need the blockage in my pipe. I have a draft control in the door for regulating the air mix.
That obvious "line" where creosote starts is due to it being placed over another pipe when it is installed, therefore no smoke exposure. Slowing the fire is not the same as choking the fire. These dampers are amazing and by design will keep more heat in the building.
Your explanation of making sure the stove gets as much air as possible too is a recipe for the chimney to get too hot and cause a fire. It’s a balance of seasoned wood, correct inlet damper airflow and chimney temp. Any one of these out of balance can result in a chimney fire.
In defense of the damper, I can attest that it considerably increases the efficiency of my stove, simply by not letting heat escape that easy. My goal is to have the stove hot, but not necessarily to burn. The hotter the stove, the more heat the house gets. On the other hand, the more intense the fire is, the faster the fuel burns. With the damper closed, I can have the stove very hot, and at the same time, a modest fire (that burns for significantly longer)
I haven't cleaned my stove pipe in years. I check it to make sure but too clean to bother with. The secret is a clean burn, no smoke means no creosote. The only time you see smoke from my chimney is first start and when I add more wood. I set my damper above 45 degrees.
Absolutely agree! The key is good combustion . Smoke is unburned gases (energy) escaping up the chimney. If it’s burned in the stove where it should be . You get very little visible smoke and creosote can’t build up
Yeah,well we cant run a stove wide open all the time buddy. Depending on your situation,cleaning your chimney once or maybe twice a year is fine. To help reduce creasote buildup burn good dry seasoned wood,burn your fire a little extra hot for about 15 minutes once a day,use creasote reducing logs periodically. A good insulated chimney that is tall enough for adequate draft and has a good storm/rain cap will help too. I burn from October through march with an old buck fireplace insert with a 10" masonry and clay chimney. It has a damper that's far from airtight and I pull the insert out the start of every burn season and clean it the best I can with a brush. It's never horrible,but I clean it regardless. I usually go through 5+ cord if oak and maple a year. I cut my own wood in later winter/early spring and burn it the following winter.
Do you also have a firewood business on the side? Running without a damper is the best way to throw heat away. I have a 100+ yo PD Beckwith with a damper AND a draft control. My damper is always at least half closed, my draft at least half way open. By introducing fresh air into the hot stream, you burn the smoke. My stove runs extremely clean. My chimney sweep only comes every other year and is still saying I’m wasting his time and my money. It is crucial that I only burn well seasoned hardwoods from my property… black oak, madrone, manzanita and some scrub oak.
The section of pipe where there is no creosote is where the pipe that was previously inserted into it was covering that part of the pipe. The pipe was also installed upside down.
That home owner is burning green wood for sure. I'm about to install one because my draft is so intense. Even on my catalytic setting the stove burns to fast and I have my air intake shut down. No leaks in my vermont castings stove either
Not everyone is burning in poorly seasoned wood in an old smoke dragon stove. This is bad advise for modern stoves designed to burn within a specific draft range. Following it is a shortcut to overfiring the stove and ruining their expensive investment. A butterfly damper is totally appropriate for a modern stove on a 30+ ft tall flue system.
If you prioritize facts over ego, I'd like you to share your experiences and data with stoves, not just in words but through various experiments. I installed a butterfly damper on my ENCORE and refrained from chimney cleaning for two years. Upon inspection last month, while the amount of creosote didn't significantly change, a notable difference was evident: around 90% of the creosote had accumulated around and below the butterfly damper, with only about 10% above it. ENCORE, utilizing a catalyst, enhances combustion efficiency, burning a substantial amount of creosote. However, its drawback lies in its inability to separate the roles of the damper and the catalyst. By employing the butterfly damper, I've extended the burning time from the usual 5 hours to 10 hours and reduced firewood consumption by about 30%. If my experiments had failed, I would have likely removed the butterfly damper by now. Yet, it seems that won't be necessary.
I agree with your assessment of the facts regarding creosote build up, choking the fire, etc. but in reality, there are other factors to consider. A wood stove that isn't shut down will easily burn through a log in 30-45 minutes, and it may burn so fast and hot that you're over-firing the stove (which can cause permanent damage over time) so it's not incorrect to shut a stove down and run it dirty, to keep it ticking over at a manageable rate. You've just got to make sure your chimney is swept every 6 to 12 months, depending on usage.
I sweep my chimney 3 Times a year the first one is to make sure it’s clear and no bees or debris found there way in yes I have a cap. The second one is midway through the burn season and the last is a put it to bed for the year cleaning. I use the damper as a break in the event something starts to get a little out of hand. No problem using it and I usually just have the powder ash type creosote. Again not bad as long as you do your part.
Ide say your 100 percent wrong you can regulate exhaust flow with good inlet air for a more lean burn....trick is go outside and see if your smoking and adjust as needed.i wouldn't ever use one in a newer epa stove due to the secondary burn features in the stove your exhaust is already fairly cool compared to an older wood burner. but I think there a great safety feature in case of a chimney fire.
Good point on the chimney fire, but I wonder if they've tested closing the feed door and air flow on the stove versus a damper as far as effectiveness.
A chimney guy who came to inspect our chimney said the same thing about our butterfly damper. According to him they are old school and not needed. What I don’t understand though is what keeps all of your heat from going up the chimney? As soon as you shut down that damper, the stove gets hotter and kicks all the heat into the room. 🤔 All these years, my understanding was that it kept all your heat from escaping out of the chimney. I’ve been burning wood since the early 1980’s and have always used this type of damper.
I have a damper in my stove pipe, and it's used when the wind is blowing 10 to 30 miles an hour. It's the only way to control how fast and hot the fire will burn. Turning down the air controls helps, but not enough. You'll burn through a lot of wood, without much heat. As for burning overnight, stove manufacturers show you how to close down the air intake, to make the fire last all night. Been doing it for years.
We used one for years. Yes I get it. But at the same time you do want to hold the fire back. I believe if you clean your stove every spring it should be ok
I have been burning dry wood at home and work all my life and can say that I have never had to even clean any of my super chimneys. I do check them every year anyway. When I close off the damper I can feel the rush of hot air that would have otherwise gone up the chimney.
I just throw a handful of rock salt in my stove on a hot fire once a week and it usually stays pretty clean. Of course I also got a large convex mirror outside so I can see my chimney at all times and a gallon of water by the stove to toss in just in case
I have an Avalon Olympic wood stove, which has the secondary burn feature, it has a damper built in, once the stove is hot, you can throw a couple logs ,( well seasoned of course) and totally close your damper and shut the air flow, this stove will give you a nice primary burn, and any generated smoke will be trapped and burned on the top of the stove ( secondary burn) generating good heat and burning for longer time. I usually go to bed around 10, wake up for work around 4:30 -4:45 am and there is still a nice bed of hot coals inside the stove . I clean my liner mid winter like January and again before next winter season, seems to be working just fine for me .
Unfortunately in areas where people use their wood stove/furnace 24 hours a day for 4-6 months out of the year this is the only damper that works, when the chimney has to much up draft pulling up and out, the fire won’t continue to burn. Any chimney cap at the top could help, but the amount of creosote that would build up in the cap in a short period of time is ridiculous. There are some instances where this type of damper is the only solution.
This is where the new stoves really shine with the secondary air tubes. So many people comment on videos to add a flue damper when they see the secondary burn in a new stove. Nice work, thanks.
A high-end wood stove even from the '90s will have secondary air tubes. My 1997 Lopi Endeavor has secondary burn capability because of its air tubes--1997 to be exact.
I just purchased a new woodstove, no damper, but this stupid fiber baffle board is in the top of the stove. No air flow and the smoke build up was ridiculous. One month burning 2 yr dead oak, and the creosote build up was so thick I was shocked. I made a 2 inch hole in the fiber board and now my stove behaves the way it is supposed to. That fiber board is one of the most dangerous additions out there. I will be removing more of the fiber board and installing a damper. 40 years of burning wood and I'm going back to the basics.
just ran across this video if you know how stove pipe is put together, he is showing you the damper upside down the buildup is not above the damper going up the flue as he is saying the buildup is on the stove side exactly where it should be.
I have nothing in my connector pipe. 27 years later, people still insist I need one. But my home. My wood. My stove. My pipe. It is controlled by the air intake on the appliance. Coal is different. Thats entirely a different species of solid fuel.
Either you close this damper above furnace or the inlet damper, your are restricting the airflow, hence choking the fire, because fire can only burn when there is enough oxygen supply. So, regulating the heat on the inlet damper is actually better so the stove has a negative pressure inside and does not smoke the room. But when the stove is not on, you still have the draft sucking warm air from your house through the chimney out in the cold. It would help to have a good seal to stop that draft. The inlet damper can be completely closed and you would still have air leak through the pipe cracks. And unfortunately this kind of butterfly damper would not really seal the chimney. We would need a better seal.
If wood stove manufacturers had the sense to make the reburn air adjustable then a stove pipe damper would not be needed for excessively tall chimneys and modern single air control EPA stoves. For a tall chimney that draws lots of vacuum a stove pipe damper works. Whether the combustion air is throttled at the inlet or the outlet makes no difference to the fire(or creasote) except that at the outlet it can mean smoke in the house if the wood stove door is opened too quickly. The inlet is definitely the preferred place to throttle the air except most manufacturers do not allow control of the reburn air so with tall chimneys the secondary air is often too cold to perform properly unless the stove is extremely hot. Excessive secondary air does not contribute to combustion once the flames subside overnight and instead cool the stove off prematurely. A stove pipe damper can help with this design deficiency, but only if the chimney has more draw than what the stove designer assumed when designing the stove. Adjusting the damper brings the secondary air to main combustion air ratio into the sweet spot for more efficient burning. On a short chimney, using a stove pipe damper is a bad idea, but they aren't always a bad idea. On my EPA secondary air stove, I installed a 4 inch blast gate on the common air inlet so I can control the ratio of secondary air to main burn air. (my chimney is 35 feet tall). This made a huge difference in preventing a runaway stove and has allowed secondary burn with the flue temperature as low as 250 degrees F with absolutely no visible smoke out the chimney. A stove pipe damper would have done the same thing, but not as elegantly and throttled at the inlet there is always a healthy vacuum at the door when it is opened so no smoke enters the house.
Sure, A short chimney has lower draught (suction) especially when cold. The ratio of secondary air to overall combustion air is usually fixed by the size of the air openings the manufacturer made the stove with and the chimney height. That ratio is usually optimized for a chimney height of about 16 feet (if I remember correctly). If you have a short chimney, obstructing that draught will likely cause a smoky room but will also mess with the ratio of secondary air to primary (bulk) air to the wood stove so there would be very little secondary air to light off and burn excess combustible gasses. Try it without a damper first. One can always be added later (should local codes allow it).
That’s all true but when your only source of heat is wood you have to choke your fire. Nobody is gonna load their fire up for the night and then let it burn wide-open. Yeah creosote is built up but you clean your pipes and then put new ones in at a certain point. If you build a tiny fire, I’d be out in an hour with everything wide-open, and then you freeze to death overnight.
Thank you for posting this. I'm attempting to install my first woodstove in my house. I've talked to so many different reps that know very little or nothing at all about it. Makes perfect sense also
I kept a fire going 6 month a year for 30 years ( always had babies )with a top damper and a thermostatic bottom damper( closes when hot opens when cold ) ! the stove had a 10 ft strait pipe ,start with a hot fire to blast it out ,then cut off the air and let it do it's thing ( 8 hr burn times with tree log stoke )! it ain't hard ! long pipes cause this cooling build up ! it will build up no matter what lies are told ! clean you pipes every year and it should work very well ! I used a chain to bang around and let it fall in a bucket ( use it to treat wood that contacts dirt , posts ?)
What if it's a concrete flue, and concrete building. No fire issue. 2nd this makes sense, and I get it but holding the heat in is the goal. So I think it depends on the application.
Heat or convection also affect your draft keeping your fire box hot produces a clean burn .controlling your intake damper and exhaust to creat the right temp for your stove.Every stove is different their is no one answer for all.
I had a quad 4300 i burnt for years in my basement went to a ideal steel from woodstock cat stove with the 4300 cup of ashes once a year the cat stove plugged my pipe 2 times one season insalled a lopi endeavor non cat this year.
Tell people to not burn wood that is not fully seasoned. That does a lot more toward preventing creosote. Advise the to watch the flue temperature. As long as the flue gases are over 250ºF on exit of the flue system, creosote will not condense badly.
I don’t agree with this diagnosis for 2 reasons. The more important being the danger of not having a way to choke a fire if something is stuck open- the stove gaskets arent tight- and/or it’s very windy outside. Recommending not having an extra safeguard is reckless imo. We are talking about fire after all. My quadrafire is tight but with a drafty home and 70mph sustained winds, not having a butterfly would be idiotic. Secondary tubes don’t have controls so the damper is the ONLY way to slow things from getting unsafe. Still, keep steel wool close if you have to plug these inlets and know where the inlets are. Second reason being the example used (butterfly damper shown) only proves the heat is staying in the firebox longer which is what we all want. If there were no damper the shiny creosote would just be lower in the stovepipe due to the heat cooling before it would with a damper installed. People, install the damper, keep the damper if you have one. Just maintain the stovepipe and be as familiar with it as you should be in the first place.
John, very interesting your vide.But why are there so many videos on how to install in pipe dampers, also most insurance companies and fire department recommend these dampers.
good to know, you can't be too safe. I was thinking of ways to make my stove burn longer but now I'm going to let it rip. I will remove my damper also. tks
You should never control a woodstove by slowing or impeding the smoke leaving the appliance. All that does it create thicker, cooler gases in the flue which build up more creosote. You control a woodstove with the air inlet controls. Just be careful not to take away too much air because then you get the same problem.
@@Dirtybird532 That's why you clean your chimney! Old timers with wood kitchen stoves would clean them every month or two. And the damper also keeps more heat in the stove instead of up the chimney. I run double wall pipe WITH a damper and keep internal pipe temp at 600
@@kirkstinson7316 I agree!! Proper maintenance is a MUST! I've been around wood stoves all my life. If you have excessive Creosote buildup, STOP BURNING GREEN WOOD!
Hello John, I can tell you from experience that the flue damper made these days are just junk made in CHINAMAN ASIA or INDIA or Taiwan.. I changed mine every year for the past three years. Then I had enough and made mine from exotic materials. INCONEL flapper and fasteners, TUNGSTEN ROD and Stainless Steel split collar clamps to control the index position. Has been two years and the homemade unit is just bulletproof, period. The 6 inch pipe is 316 stainless steel which is way better than plain steel sheet metal. I modified my stove with secondary air input to increase the heat output and reduced my wood usage in half, minimum. The burn was way longer and cleaner than before. Drop some more suggestions to increase the efficiency of my Stove John Caesar. Thanks
If you burn good seasoned wood and inspect your chimney Routinelyusing a damper you can control, Seems to be a logical way to retain heat and re-burn smoke similar to the way a baffle works , one would think ?
Wow! Was just getting ready to install a damper in my new pipe! Thank you so much for explaining this in detail! Just hooking up my new woodstove and will not be installing damper!
@FrancOtaku Expensive more high-end wood stoves have built-in dampers already part of the manufacturing process, just buy a more expensive wood stove not from a big box store either, that's where the cheapies are.
@@austinsmith281 I have used woodstoves for many years with dampers. I decided to install my new woodstove with no damper and it is working well for me.
I wonder if you added it really close to the fire chamber so it kept any creosote inside the chamber. Cause I think ideally you want as much smoke as possible to stay in the chamber so it ignites again. Think about a rocket stove, it literally captures all of the smoke, Re burns it and then the exhaust from the house looks like vapor more then smoke if done right.
At about 2:05 he asserts that a butterfly damper, even fully open, is still bad and causes creosote. That is pure nonsense. I have a new Aspen C3 stove. There are no air controls at all on this stove. I removed the damper as per numerous youtube guru's advice. Thus, I discovered to my great dismay that there is no way to regain control of my overfiring stove. I will replace the damper in the spring time!
so you are saying no damper and FULL AIR, which means you will burn thru wood very quickly, the whole reason people close damper is to get more heat in the box and and conserve wood, is there a another way to achieve this with no damper and open air vents
How is closing the air vents in front of the stove "not chocking" but using draft regulator is choking? I think you are taking things to extreme. I can burn all the wood in 30 minutes with flue liner red hot or 6h creating tons of CO on soot. Why not to tune it it burns at optimal rate?
Ok. So what about my 100 year old kitchen stove? Hell, that forces the "smoke" around the oven box nefore it even hits the pipe! Its called run it hit once a day AND clean your stove pipe every now and then
I have a modern EPA 2020 stove and a 37ft tall chimney. Last year I ran the stove WITHOUT a key damper and had some serious runaway issues. The fire would often become uncontrollable and the temperature on the single wall pipe would become crazy hot. I did reach out to my stove manufacturer (pacific energy) and they told me that a key damper would definitely help in my situation. I am going to install one before next winter.
So what you are saying is my wood stove that i burn 5 months of the year the chimney is not supposed to have a damper in the pipe that i close 50% and still only have to brush it every 2 years. After one year i can still see the pipe walls all the way to the cap. This video is completely wrong. For some cases and other cases it will smoke out the house with the paint burning off the pipe and stove with out one
I do not agree. A butterfly Damper is a must in controlling heat from a wood stove. Creosote comes mainly from 'soft' woods and improperly seasoned firewood.
He lost credibility when claimed creosote line, obviously there is a pipe below. What is the reason for stating that. According to him only way to run a stove is wideopen, melt the darn thing down…
I am a complete amateur= the guy I hired to install my wood stove recommended I put a damper in the pipe so I did. I ended foolishly dropping my pipe pole brush cleaner down the pipe 🤦 pipe had to be disassembled just the other day and so when he disassembled I asked him to remove the damper that he initially installed just because I started thinking about flow and no not the Progressive girl. My Lopi Endeavor wood stove already has a damper built into the stove itself= double 🤦🤦
Another misinformation video. If used properly with good seasoned wood the dampers are very effective. It is important to know how to use and maintain a woodstove properly. No different then maintaining your own vehicle. Hire the mechanics to do the dirty work not the simple work.
I have been burning wood for nearly 40 years and have always had a butterfly damper on all my wood stoves. It all comes down to dry firewood, under 20% moisture. Many people don’t realize how important it is not to burn wet/green wood. Your video illustrates what happens to your chimney when burning wet/green wood. Burning dry wood I haven’t had the problems you’ve mentioned.
Thanks for making your videos
Me too and I don't use a damper and don't understand why one would ever need the blockage in my pipe. I have a draft control in the door for regulating the air mix.
That obvious "line" where creosote starts is due to it being placed over another pipe when it is installed, therefore no smoke exposure. Slowing the fire is not the same as choking the fire. These dampers are amazing and by design will keep more heat in the building.
Exactly what I was thinking. This guy is a deceptive lier to get more chimney work or has no idea what he's talking about.
Your explanation of making sure the stove gets as much air as possible too is a recipe for the chimney to get too hot and cause a fire. It’s a balance of seasoned wood, correct inlet damper airflow and chimney temp. Any one of these out of balance can result in a chimney fire.
In defense of the damper, I can attest that it considerably increases the efficiency of my stove, simply by not letting heat escape that easy. My goal is to have the stove hot, but not necessarily to burn. The hotter the stove, the more heat the house gets. On the other hand, the more intense the fire is, the faster the fuel burns. With the damper closed, I can have the stove very hot, and at the same time, a modest fire (that burns for significantly longer)
I haven't cleaned my stove pipe in years. I check it to make sure but too clean to bother with. The secret is a clean burn, no smoke means no creosote. The only time you see smoke from my chimney is first start and when I add more wood. I set my damper above 45 degrees.
Absolutely agree! The key is good combustion . Smoke is unburned gases (energy) escaping up the chimney. If it’s burned in the stove where it should be . You get very little visible smoke and creosote can’t build up
Yeah,well we cant run a stove wide open all the time buddy. Depending on your situation,cleaning your chimney once or maybe twice a year is fine. To help reduce creasote buildup burn good dry seasoned wood,burn your fire a little extra hot for about 15 minutes once a day,use creasote reducing logs periodically. A good insulated chimney that is tall enough for adequate draft and has a good storm/rain cap will help too. I burn from October through march with an old buck fireplace insert with a 10" masonry and clay chimney. It has a damper that's far from airtight and I pull the insert out the start of every burn season and clean it the best I can with a brush. It's never horrible,but I clean it regardless. I usually go through 5+ cord if oak and maple a year. I cut my own wood in later winter/early spring and burn it the following winter.
If I took mine out I would have a run a way fire, with a good hot fire it has to be at least half way to prevent the stove from glowing.
Do you also have a firewood business on the side? Running without a damper is the best way to throw heat away. I have a 100+ yo PD Beckwith with a damper AND a draft control. My damper is always at least half closed, my draft at least half way open. By introducing fresh air into the hot stream, you burn the smoke. My stove runs extremely clean. My chimney sweep only comes every other year and is still saying I’m wasting his time and my money. It is crucial that I only burn well seasoned hardwoods from my property… black oak, madrone, manzanita and some scrub oak.
The section of pipe where there is no creosote is where the pipe that was previously inserted into it was covering that part of the pipe. The pipe was also installed upside down.
Its really fun to see these You Tube experts put those in and install there pipes upside down!
That home owner is burning green wood for sure. I'm about to install one because my draft is so intense. Even on my catalytic setting the stove burns to fast and I have my air intake shut down. No leaks in my vermont castings stove either
Not everyone is burning in poorly seasoned wood in an old smoke dragon stove. This is bad advise for modern stoves designed to burn within a specific draft range. Following it is a shortcut to overfiring the stove and ruining their expensive investment. A butterfly damper is totally appropriate for a modern stove on a 30+ ft tall flue system.
Or clean your stove pipe regularly. And save your money by not letting the heat all escape.
If you prioritize facts over ego, I'd like you to share your experiences and data with stoves, not just in words but through various experiments. I installed a butterfly damper on my ENCORE and refrained from chimney cleaning for two years. Upon inspection last month, while the amount of creosote didn't significantly change, a notable difference was evident: around 90% of the creosote had accumulated around and below the butterfly damper, with only about 10% above it.
ENCORE, utilizing a catalyst, enhances combustion efficiency, burning a substantial amount of creosote. However, its drawback lies in its inability to separate the roles of the damper and the catalyst. By employing the butterfly damper, I've extended the burning time from the usual 5 hours to 10 hours and reduced firewood consumption by about 30%.
If my experiments had failed, I would have likely removed the butterfly damper by now. Yet, it seems that won't be necessary.
I agree with your assessment of the facts regarding creosote build up, choking the fire, etc. but in reality, there are other factors to consider.
A wood stove that isn't shut down will easily burn through a log in 30-45 minutes, and it may burn so fast and hot that you're over-firing the stove (which can cause permanent damage over time) so it's not incorrect to shut a stove down and run it dirty, to keep it ticking over at a manageable rate. You've just got to make sure your chimney is swept every 6 to 12 months, depending on usage.
this guy is just trying to sell you something
Agreed
Sounds like he hasn’t use the woodstove very much in his life to heat the house
I sweep my chimney 3 Times a year the first one is to make sure it’s clear and no bees or debris found there way in yes I have a cap. The second one is midway through the burn season and the last is a put it to bed for the year cleaning. I use the damper as a break in the event something starts to get a little out of hand. No problem using it and I usually just have the powder ash type creosote. Again not bad as long as you do your part.
Ide say your 100 percent wrong you can regulate exhaust flow with good inlet air for a more lean burn....trick is go outside and see if your smoking and adjust as needed.i wouldn't ever use one in a newer epa stove due to the secondary burn features in the stove your exhaust is already fairly cool compared to an older wood burner. but I think there a great safety feature in case of a chimney fire.
Good point on the chimney fire, but I wonder if they've tested closing the feed door and air flow on the stove versus a damper as far as effectiveness.
A chimney guy who came to inspect our chimney said the same thing about our butterfly damper. According to him they are old school and not needed. What I don’t understand though is what keeps all of your heat from going up the chimney? As soon as you shut down that damper, the stove gets hotter and kicks all the heat into the room. 🤔 All these years, my understanding was that it kept all your heat from escaping out of the chimney. I’ve been burning wood since the early 1980’s and have always used this type of damper.
I noticed that damper appears to have been installed upside down.
I have a damper in my stove pipe, and it's used when the wind is blowing 10 to 30 miles an hour. It's the only way to control how fast and hot the fire will burn. Turning down the air controls helps, but not enough. You'll burn through a lot of wood, without much heat. As for burning overnight, stove manufacturers show you how to close down the air intake, to make the fire last all night. Been doing it for years.
We used one for years. Yes I get it. But at the same time you do want to hold the fire back. I believe if you clean your stove every spring it should be ok
I have been burning dry wood at home and work all my life and can say that I have never had to even clean any of my super chimneys. I do check them every year anyway. When I close off the damper I can feel the rush of hot air that would have otherwise gone up the chimney.
I just throw a handful of rock salt in my stove on a hot fire once a week and it usually stays pretty clean. Of course I also got a large convex mirror outside so I can see my chimney at all times and a gallon of water by the stove to toss in just in case
I have an Avalon Olympic wood stove, which has the secondary burn feature, it has a damper built in, once the stove is hot, you can throw a couple logs ,( well seasoned of course) and totally close your damper and shut the air flow, this stove will give you a nice primary burn, and any generated smoke will be trapped and burned on the top of the stove ( secondary burn) generating good heat and burning for longer time. I usually go to bed around 10, wake up for work around 4:30 -4:45 am and there is still a nice bed of hot coals inside the stove . I clean my liner mid winter like January and again before next winter season, seems to be working just fine for me .
Unfortunately in areas where people use their wood stove/furnace 24 hours a day for 4-6 months out of the year this is the only damper that works, when the chimney has to much up draft pulling up and out, the fire won’t continue to burn. Any chimney cap at the top could help, but the amount of creosote that would build up in the cap in a short period of time is ridiculous. There are some instances where this type of damper is the only solution.
like this the guy is an idiot
You are absolutely right
This is where the new stoves really shine with the secondary air tubes. So many people comment on videos to add a flue damper when they see the secondary burn in a new stove. Nice work, thanks.
A high-end wood stove even from the '90s will have secondary air tubes. My 1997 Lopi Endeavor has secondary burn capability because of its air tubes--1997 to be exact.
Creosote has more to do with the moisture content of the wood you are burning. Slow burning green wood is a recipe for disaster.
Thanks for the info. You explained it very well.
I just purchased a new woodstove, no damper, but this stupid fiber baffle board is in the top of the stove. No air flow and the smoke build up was ridiculous. One month burning 2 yr dead oak, and the creosote build up was so thick I was shocked. I made a 2 inch hole in the fiber board and now my stove behaves the way it is supposed to. That fiber board is one of the most dangerous additions out there. I will be removing more of the fiber board and installing a damper. 40 years of burning wood and I'm going back to the basics.
just ran across this video if you know how stove pipe is put together, he is showing you the damper upside down the buildup is not above the damper going up the flue as he is saying the buildup is on the stove side exactly where it should be.
😳used one for years.......
Your fine, this guy is a joke
Thank you, I was thinking about installing one but your advice helped me in my decision.
I have nothing in my connector pipe. 27 years later, people still insist I need one. But my home. My wood. My stove. My pipe. It is controlled by the air intake on the appliance.
Coal is different. Thats entirely a different species of solid fuel.
Either you close this damper above furnace or the inlet damper, your are restricting the airflow, hence choking the fire, because fire can only burn when there is enough oxygen supply. So, regulating the heat on the inlet damper is actually better so the stove has a negative pressure inside and does not smoke the room. But when the stove is not on, you still have the draft sucking warm air from your house through the chimney out in the cold. It would help to have a good seal to stop that draft. The inlet damper can be completely closed and you would still have air leak through the pipe cracks. And unfortunately this kind of butterfly damper would not really seal the chimney. We would need a better seal.
If wood stove manufacturers had the sense to make the reburn air adjustable then a stove pipe damper would not be needed for excessively tall chimneys and modern single air control EPA stoves. For a tall chimney that draws lots of vacuum a stove pipe damper works. Whether the combustion air is throttled at the inlet or the outlet makes no difference to the fire(or creasote) except that at the outlet it can mean smoke in the house if the wood stove door is opened too quickly. The inlet is definitely the preferred place to throttle the air except most manufacturers do not allow control of the reburn air so with tall chimneys the secondary air is often too cold to perform properly unless the stove is extremely hot. Excessive secondary air does not contribute to combustion once the flames subside overnight and instead cool the stove off prematurely. A stove pipe damper can help with this design deficiency, but only if the chimney has more draw than what the stove designer assumed when designing the stove. Adjusting the damper brings the secondary air to main combustion air ratio into the sweet spot for more efficient burning. On a short chimney, using a stove pipe damper is a bad idea, but they aren't always a bad idea. On my EPA secondary air stove, I installed a 4 inch blast gate on the common air inlet so I can control the ratio of secondary air to main burn air. (my chimney is 35 feet tall). This made a huge difference in preventing a runaway stove and has allowed secondary burn with the flue temperature as low as 250 degrees F with absolutely no visible smoke out the chimney. A stove pipe damper would have done the same thing, but not as elegantly and throttled at the inlet there is always a healthy vacuum at the door when it is opened so no smoke enters the house.
I'm going to be installing a stove in my house soon, and the chimney will be short. Could you explain why a damper is a bad idea on a short chimney?
Sure, A short chimney has lower draught (suction) especially when cold. The ratio of secondary air to overall combustion air is usually fixed by the size of the air openings the manufacturer made the stove with and the chimney height. That ratio is usually optimized for a chimney height of about 16 feet (if I remember correctly). If you have a short chimney, obstructing that draught will likely cause a smoky room but will also mess with the ratio of secondary air to primary (bulk) air to the wood stove so there would be very little secondary air to light off and burn excess combustible gasses. Try it without a damper first. One can always be added later (should local codes allow it).
That’s all true but when your only source of heat is wood you have to choke your fire. Nobody is gonna load their fire up for the night and then let it burn wide-open. Yeah creosote is built up but you clean your pipes and then put new ones in at a certain point. If you build a tiny fire, I’d be out in an hour with everything wide-open, and then you freeze to death overnight.
Thank you for posting this. I'm attempting to install my first woodstove in my house. I've talked to so many different reps that know very little or nothing at all about it. Makes perfect sense also
dont talk to reps talk to somebody that knows reps are shit this guy id trying to sell you somthing
I kept a fire going 6 month a year for 30 years ( always had babies )with a top damper and a thermostatic bottom damper( closes when hot opens when cold ) ! the stove had a 10 ft strait pipe ,start with a hot fire to blast it out ,then cut off the air and let it do it's thing ( 8 hr burn times with tree log stoke )! it ain't hard !
long pipes cause this cooling build up ! it will build up no matter what lies are told ! clean you pipes every year and it should work very well ! I used a chain to bang around and let it fall in a bucket ( use it to treat wood that contacts dirt , posts ?)
Great info thanks! And may THE LORD JESUS bless you and yours
I'm pro damper. Use seasoned firewood and clean your chimney before each season.
What if it's a concrete flue, and concrete building. No fire issue. 2nd this makes sense, and I get it but holding the heat in is the goal. So I think it depends on the application.
So the damper went in the pipe(crimped side up) bottom on the outside top inside? That would leave the cresol mark you were pointing to...right?
Heat or convection also affect your draft keeping your fire box hot produces a clean burn .controlling your intake damper and exhaust to creat the right temp for your stove.Every stove is different their is no one answer for all.
I had a quad 4300 i burnt for years in my basement went to a ideal steel from woodstock cat stove with the 4300 cup of ashes once a year the cat stove plugged my pipe 2 times one season insalled a lopi endeavor non cat this year.
Ok ok I'm not putting mine in. Lol thank you for this!
Tell people to not burn wood that is not fully seasoned. That does a lot more toward preventing creosote. Advise the to watch the flue temperature. As long as the flue gases are over 250ºF on exit of the flue system, creosote will not condense badly.
Just learning here is there a cleaner for the creosote or just continue regular cleaning 😅
What are your thoughts on a barometric damper for a wood stove or furnace?
I don’t agree with this diagnosis for 2 reasons. The more important being the danger of not having a way to choke a fire if something is stuck open- the stove gaskets arent tight- and/or it’s very windy outside. Recommending not having an extra safeguard is reckless imo. We are talking about fire after all. My quadrafire is tight but with a drafty home and 70mph sustained winds, not having a butterfly would be idiotic. Secondary tubes don’t have controls so the damper is the ONLY way to slow things from getting unsafe. Still, keep steel wool close if you have to plug these inlets and know where the inlets are.
Second reason being the example used (butterfly damper shown) only proves the heat is staying in the firebox longer which is what we all want. If there were no damper the shiny creosote would just be lower in the stovepipe due to the heat cooling before it would with a damper installed.
People, install the damper, keep the damper if you have one. Just maintain the stovepipe and be as familiar with it as you should be in the first place.
How to block airflow after the fire is over or during summer?
Like a normal baffle in combustion appliances to preserve efficiency
Does the creosote stick to the walls of the pipe because it's attracted to a cool surface it dosen't stick to the damper valve ?
John, very interesting your vide.But why are there so many videos on how to install in pipe dampers, also most insurance companies and fire department recommend these dampers.
With out the damper the stove will burn twice the wood
good to know, you can't be too safe. I was thinking of ways to make my stove burn longer but now I'm going to let it rip. I will remove my damper also. tks
can u clean out creosote by burning it hot and damper open or not?
So, the only way to operate a woodstove is to run it wide open at all times? Derp!
You should never control a woodstove by slowing or impeding the smoke leaving the appliance. All that does it create thicker, cooler gases in the flue which build up more creosote. You control a woodstove with the air inlet controls. Just be careful not to take away too much air because then you get the same problem.
@@Dirtybird532
That's why you clean your chimney! Old timers with wood kitchen stoves would clean them every month or two. And the damper also keeps more heat in the stove instead of up the chimney. I run double wall pipe WITH a damper and keep internal pipe temp at 600
@@kirkstinson7316 I agree!! Proper maintenance is a MUST! I've been around wood stoves all my life. If you have excessive Creosote buildup, STOP BURNING GREEN WOOD!
Hello John, I can tell you from experience that the flue damper made these days are just junk made in CHINAMAN ASIA or INDIA or Taiwan.. I changed mine every year for the past three years. Then I had enough and made mine from exotic materials. INCONEL flapper and fasteners, TUNGSTEN ROD and Stainless Steel split collar clamps to control the index position. Has been two years and the homemade unit is just bulletproof, period. The 6 inch pipe is 316 stainless steel which is way better than plain steel sheet metal.
I modified my stove with secondary air input to increase the heat output and reduced my wood usage in half, minimum. The burn was way longer and cleaner than before.
Drop some more suggestions to increase the efficiency of my Stove John Caesar. Thanks
Well said
Isn’t the same concept on the stove that comes with the damper built in ? And those are considered safe 🤷🏻♂️
My stove damper won't stay half way or almost closed. It's either wide open or closed.
If you burn good seasoned wood and inspect your chimney Routinelyusing a damper you can control, Seems to be a logical way to retain heat and re-burn smoke similar to the way a baffle works , one would think ?
Wow! Was just getting ready to install a damper in my new pipe! Thank you so much for explaining this in detail! Just hooking up my new woodstove and will not be installing damper!
@FrancOtaku Expensive more high-end wood stoves have built-in dampers already part of the manufacturing process, just buy a more expensive wood stove not from a big box store either, that's where the cheapies are.
You are not going to have much luck with a wood stove with no damper
@@austinsmith281 I did install it with no damper and it is working very well.
@@austinsmith281 I have used woodstoves for many years with dampers. I decided to install my new woodstove with no damper and it is working well for me.
@@lanagaylechandler1948 a lot of your heat is escaping up the chimney.
The crimped edge goes down, so the creosote is below the damper. Not above it.
I wonder if you added it really close to the fire chamber so it kept any creosote inside the chamber. Cause I think ideally you want as much smoke as possible to stay in the chamber so it ignites again. Think about a rocket stove, it literally captures all of the smoke, Re burns it and then the exhaust from the house looks like vapor more then smoke if done right.
It won't reburn without air or draft and newer stoves need all the draft they can get to work properly.i really depends on your wood burner.
Pipe installed upside down as well
Thanks. Great advice. No need for me to keep replacing those cheap Chinese built crappy dampers. Many thanks. I burn Pennsylvania anthracite.
Do I need a biometric damper on a coal stove what size water colum do I want .04,..06,.08????
At about 2:05 he asserts that a butterfly damper, even fully open, is still bad and causes creosote. That is pure nonsense. I have a new Aspen C3 stove. There are no air controls at all on this stove. I removed the damper as per numerous youtube guru's advice. Thus, I discovered to my great dismay that there is no way to regain control of my overfiring stove. I will replace the damper in the spring time!
so you are saying no damper and FULL AIR, which means you will burn thru wood very quickly, the whole reason people close damper is to get more heat in the box and and conserve wood, is there a another way to achieve this with no damper and open air vents
How is closing the air vents in front of the stove "not chocking" but using draft regulator is choking? I think you are taking things to extreme. I can burn all the wood in 30 minutes with flue liner red hot or 6h creating tons of CO on soot. Why not to tune it it burns at optimal rate?
I see people using this on older stoves and i get it but newer stoves do not need this at all you will hamper their performance 🙂
Ok. So what about my 100 year old kitchen stove? Hell, that forces the "smoke" around the oven box nefore it even hits the pipe! Its called run it hit once a day AND clean your stove pipe every now and then
I have a modern EPA 2020 stove and a 37ft tall chimney. Last year I ran the stove WITHOUT a key damper and had some serious runaway issues. The fire would often become uncontrollable and the temperature on the single wall pipe would become crazy hot. I did reach out to my stove manufacturer (pacific energy) and they told me that a key damper would definitely help in my situation. I am going to install one before next winter.
Dangerous get a stove with vents
So what you are saying is my wood stove that i burn 5 months of the year the chimney is not supposed to have a damper in the pipe that i close 50% and still only have to brush it every 2 years. After one year i can still see the pipe walls all the way to the cap. This video is completely wrong. For some cases and other cases it will smoke out the house with the paint burning off the pipe and stove with out one
You"re only scaring city folk bro! That how you make a living?
Try facing the fitting in the right direction first off ...
Looks like its either backwards or is demonstrating the opposite of what you are telling.
I do not agree. A butterfly Damper is a must in controlling heat from a wood stove. Creosote comes mainly from 'soft' woods and improperly seasoned firewood.
You definitely don't live where it's cold do you Ceaser. And that "build up" looks more like spray paint than anything.
He lost credibility when claimed creosote line, obviously there is a pipe below. What is the reason for stating that.
According to him only way to run a stove is wideopen, melt the darn thing down…
Mine so hot got to have 1
I am a complete amateur= the guy I hired to install my wood stove recommended I put a damper in the pipe so I did. I ended foolishly dropping my pipe pole brush cleaner down the pipe 🤦 pipe had to be disassembled just the other day and so when he disassembled I asked him to remove the damper that he initially installed just because I started thinking about flow and no not the Progressive girl. My Lopi Endeavor wood stove already has a damper built into the stove itself= double 🤦🤦
Burn a hot fire about 10-15 minutes every morning you would have no problems he don’t know what he is talking about wow
Another misinformation video. If used properly with good seasoned wood the dampers are very effective. It is important to know how to use and maintain a woodstove properly. No different then maintaining your own vehicle. Hire the mechanics to do the dirty work not the simple work.