This is a wonderful review. Thank you! Others have commented on the important rendering and optical differences so I will comment on something else. Your description of both make us feel like we are holding and using both of these lenses; only for Leica does one talk about the lens hoods and caps and feel of the aperture ring in such detail. I can’t image caring about any of this for Nikon, Canon or even Fuji glass. But it’s great you discuss this in such a comprehensive but concise way. It makes these videos so much more enjoyable and gives one more insight into the “soul” of the Leica M system which is so important to those that use it.
Thank you for the review. The summicron seems much sharper at F2 (if looke at your video at 19:54 minutes). As for the summilux, the new version should be exactly like the old one, especially wide open, since optically they are exactly the same.
I’m deciding between these two lenses, and your review has been incredibly helpful! Because optically the FLEI and FLEII are the same without the close focus capability, your review implies that the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 FLE I (not the FLEII shown here) is a fantastic lens with optics comparable to the APO at smaller apertures. A used FLE I costs just a third of the APO’s price. While it lacks close-focus capability and has some purple fringing, it still delivers that classic Leica look at apertures wider than f/2.8, with sharpness similar to the APO from f/2.8 and up.
As I, for the most part, use B&W film, the hair-splitting edge that the Summicron has on colour fidelity is of little importance. Although, for photographing artwork for reproduction, the Summicrons have always been my choice within the Leica range. The absence of distortion is also of critical importance. These lenses at between 5.6 and f8 are superb.
The APO cron looks slightly sharper in the centre close-up even when stopped down to f/2.8. But it is massively sharper in the edges at f/2, showing far less coma and lower colour aberrations at distance, just look at the street lights at 19:50 and the grass and foliage at 19:53 in the video. You didn't show the far corners at all, so the APO cron's advantage may still have held there at f/8, although I imagine both lenses are losing acuity from diffraction at that aperture.
Correct - The Apo is a bit better in the corners. But in post you can correct a lot of issues and these images are out of camera without post and without corrections. I did not apply any lens profiles here which will fix most of the issues you mention in LR.
From an optical perspective, the main differences are the following: 11 aperture blades instead of formerly 9 which makes blurry background lights in the bokeh more circular and the improved close-up distance now at 0.4m instead of formerly 0.7m. Everything else (except the design of the lens) did not change.
@@mathphotographer I do think it would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of the blurry backgrounds and bokeh between the two versions of the FLE. Especially between F2 and F5.6. This would help two groups of people: 1) FLE v1 owners who aren't sure if they should upgrade. 2) People looking to buy a FLE v1 because they will save money on a nice used copy.
I enjoy your thoroughness, but it wasn't until you mentioned the APO lack of CA, that my choice was affirmed. I found a new copy of the 35mm APO and bought it right away--then the new FLE came out. I wondered if I had made a mistake, especially considering price. I'm relieved. The Summicron is better for my usage. If I want to do street at night I have a Voigtlander 35mm f12. II, which serves my purposes just fine.
At 19.55 the window is sharper on the apo lens, the is some difference between rhe 2 lenses in sharpness in the night test imo, thank you for the review!
As far as I know any modern (or any one ever made I suppose) M lens can have a tighter or looser aperture ring if you specify that in a CLA, adjust it yourself if you know how, or it comes that way from the factory. I don't think the 35/1.4 FLE v2 is especially different or unique in the design or construction of the aperture mechanism, maybe Leica just decided to set them tighter from out of the gate.
I have the new Summilux. It is very good - although I would prefer a harder delineation between the close focus part and the normal part. I actually ended up getting what was the only copy of that lens in NZ at the time, partly because there were no Apo lenses and I was advised I would have to wait at least 12 months to get one. I decided I probably would never tell the difference in daily use for practical purposes so went with what I could get.
its a joke not comparison . ive had 35 lux its a crap soft once you out of center no matter 1.4-5.6 crazy CA . 35apo is superb its so contrasty and sharp (90per cent MTF 40LP ) that it just obliterate 50apo that is 62per cent MTF 40LP . 35 lux only decent if you have 24mp and barely able to zoom in enough .once you at 40mp , not to mention 60mp , the flaws become so apparent that only idiot wouldn't face them . same goes to all Luxes . they're good if one does not zoom in or/and uses BW .
From this nice video I would say Leica did a great job with the Summilux. Against the app it’s 98% but I believe it’s on or with Voigtlander Apo. That makes it a great lens.
Hi. Like your videos. I bought the new summilux but I noticed that the “stop” between 0,7 and 0,6 is too smooth. Sometimes while I’m focusing I go under 0,7 because there a soft stop. I don’t know if I explained correctly what I mean
Thanks for this video; I've been looking for just such a direct comparison of these two lenses. I'm still on the waiting list for the APO, but think I'll pick up the new FLE II to play with while I wait. If I'm as happy with the FLE II as I expect, I'll probably pass on the APO. The new lens is a great achievement for Leica and I can't wait to get my hands on one.
I prefer the color out of the Summilux here. Was white balance on auto, or set to a specific value? Do you find the same color differences in practical shooting? Honestly, I was *this close* to buying a 35 APO but I’m rethinking that now. Very impressed with this 35 FLE II. The only thing you seem to lose is the excellent contrast of the APO.
The Apo is optically better, no question. But if you post-process the images you can get the Summilux very very close to the Apo-Summicron. Remember, I showed images out of camera, no post and no corrections :)
@@mathphotographer acknowledged and I definitely like and appreciate the video! The commentary was still one of seeing no difference, and sunstar points and coma corrections are not so easy in post. LoCA, sure.
Can you please add one more important comparison? That is shooting back lighted subject. The “APO” attribute of Sumicron should “shine” there. Thank you
darf ich bitte fragen, welche schutzfolie du für deine M11 nutzt? die sitzt wirklich sehr gut. zu den Bildvergleichen: ein Unterschied in der Farbtemperatur hat massiv Auswirkungen auf den subjektiven Eindruck. Sollte die Farbtemperatur bei beiden identisch sein, ok, wenn nicht sollte man die beiden mal gleichziehen (nur die Farbtemp.) und nochmal den Bildlook vergleichen. Kalte Bilder wirken oft kontrastreicher
As usually, a great review. Thank you! I own the APO-Summicron 35mm and previous version of the Summicron 35mm ASPH FLE. I would be interested to see a comparison of these two lenses on an M11. Cheers!
Thanks for the kind feedback, Bud. Generally a good suggestion for a review, many thanks. I will see where it fits in, currently there are a lot of topics in the video pipeline :)
So, no need for the APO when you stop down the Lux and get the same sharpness at around f2 or f2.8. Also, you have the opportunity to shoot more soft and dreamy portraits at f1.4, not to mention the price difference of about 3000$
The colour saturation on the APO is orders of magnitude higher than the lux. Not to mention the veiling flare and CA that’s present on the lux in those night shots. Might look nice BnW as character but is distracting in the colour images.
Summilux 35 mm 1.4 Wins ; Portraiture is what I crave , I use many Canon L39 lenses including the Dream Lens 50mm 0.95 , I love my L39 F1.2 Canon lens , and my A.Schact Ulm 90mm 2.8 , yes an M42 lens ....try the 90mm 16 blade Schact Ulm lens , and hold on to your socks ....you will be shocked.
Many thanks for the video! it killed my sumi35apo order as i already have the new lux 35..As you tested both systems, what do you prefer M11 with lux35 or X2d with 55mm ?
The M11 has that special Leica look. The Hassi X2D provides higher resolution and Hasselblad Natural Color Science. Its not comparable and your choice will be a matter of taste.
Thanks, very interesting! Both lenses look beautiful to me but I’m not used to the faster lens being cheaper, so an easy choice really. It’s sad the lens aperture is not correctly recorded by such a new Leica. I was alarmed by the white balance difference in the red flowers. The new lens would clearly be super for street photography, but when you do your star shots I’m not sure that wide open will be usable to get really sharp stars...please prove me wrong!
It is impossible for any Leica M camera to report the actual lens aperture, simply because there is no mechanical nor electronic feedback to let the camera read the aperture ring position manually set on the lens.
I'm sorry I must disagree with you, Math, with regard to your own perception of contrast and sharpness netween these two lenses, mostly when you compare their yielded results at smaller apertures. Contrary to yours, my perception on the two lenses, side by side, at smaller apertures, at all, I stress, ALL shown images, the Summicron IS definitely distinguished from the Summilux. Sharper, more contrast and more natural colors. In some instances you comment "almost". Yes, I agree but, that "almost" makes all the difference. Do you wear glasses? That might explain why I see the better IQ of the Summicron in all instances. As for the bokeh again, while the Summilux does yield a dreamier look both at the foreground and background, the subject target is negatively affected on its sharpness. It's the same as wearing a wrong graded eyeglasses for the whole scenario. In real life, Math, I want to see my main subject crispy clear with a gentle fall off bokeh. The Summicron gives me that. While the Summilux bokeh is really dreamy, the Summicron is dreamy enough. In this case, the "almost" parameter is absolutely irrelevant. Finally, for street photography, the ideal purpose of the 35mm focus length, human expression, subtle eye glimpses and the like, millimeter subtlety will bring one's tears or not. Paying 3 grand more is dirty cheap for a priceless emotion.
Thanks Ricardo. The Apo-Summicron is still my favorite M-lens at all times, I love shooting it and I said it various times in videos :) In my perception the new Summilux-M is a fantastic lens too and I like it a lot but as I said in many of my Leica videos, the Apo-Summicron-M 35 likely is the only lens in the M-portfolio you really need :)
Thank you for the comparison!! Do you think the chromatic difference between the two lens are almost equal as well? I'm thinking that the extra $$$ on the Summicron would correct the chromatic edges better than what we could do in post-processing?
See the slight hint of green in the out of focus horizontal crack in the wall on the image at 14:07 from the lux, while the cron shows none at all. That is from the better correction of longitudinal chromatic aberrations due to the APO design of the cron. The image at 19:50 also shows the bad chromatic aberrations of the lux, evident in the street lights tinged with purple.
The new Summilux clearly is significantly better than the older Summilux but the optical construction of the Apo-Summicron has its advantages in the edges, correct.
@@Bayonet1809 Thank you!! Yes those two examples certainly show chromatic aberrations (the green on the edge of the bricks in the first example, and the purple on the street lights in the second example). Wondering if post processing would help removing those aberrations on the FLE II Lux completely? My 50 Nocti has such severe aberrations (not a complaint necessarily, as that adds to the character), that post processing does not get rid of them completely.
@@rsharma5901 I have never had much success using dedicated chromatic aberration tools (i.e. those in Lightroom or Capture One) to remove these sorts of aberrations, they can sometimes reduce them, but they always seem to remain to some extent. The only sure-fire way to remove them is using a selective colour desaturated masked layer in Photoshop or Capture One, but this is very time consuming and laborious. Thus I have come to favour apochromatically corrected (APO) lenses as they simplify my workflow.
very nice video, that helps me a lot. The apo is definitely to clean for me, a perfect lens, but to perfect for me. The Summilux should be the right lens for me. Thanks a lot.
Great you liked the video. And if you post-process images you can bring the Summilux even closer to the Apo-Summicron. I did not even apply any lens profiles in LR here, just showed pure DNG out of camera.
@@mathphotographer Yes and with todays technology for post processing...you can sharpen that a tad to rival the APO and still have the dreamy background. I prefer the 1.4 summilux which I recently purchased. I canceled my APO order which has been backordered and your test confirmed my right choice. Lens can look too clinical and I do a mix of street and general.....
I found all leica lenses have some play at the end of the aperture range. You'd expect a more solid design when paying a few grand for a lens. On the other hand, my voigtlander lenses feel way more solid.
Agree. If I wanted sharp and clinical my Sony 135mm G Master can give the APO a run for its money. To me you get a Leica for the character it brings to your photos.
It is not a good idea to use purple/pink subjects to compare APO with non-APO, as the biggest advantage of an APO lens is the lack of longitudinal chromatic aberration which is particularly annoying when producing purple fringing in front of focus. Also, you should match white balance when comparing shots.
Please do image quality (raw) tests of Leica M11 with 35mm Lux and 35mm APO. Then attach these lens to Sony A7RV using Voigtlander close adapter. Then also test on A7RV Sony 35mm GM lens and compare to Leica
Sony are generally terrible with Leica lenses. Their sensors aren’t designed to handle the extreme incident angles. I don’t have an APO (honestly, feels like a bad use of money) but do have the Summilux FLE and had an A7RIV and 35 1.4 GM at the same time (as well as the Voigtlander M adapter). The Sony 35 has great color and correctness, but so large that it’s impractical to carry (IMO) and lacked character. If you don’t mind those things, it’s a great lens.
I wonder what exactly did Leica do here…better glass formula, better lens polishing, better metals, seems like a lot of RD for very minor gains. Were they not satisfied in the old lens ability to resolve new high megapixel sensors. Was the old factory tooling getting old and it was time to update. What?
Thanks William. I think their main motivation was to update the mechanics and, most importantly, provide better close-up capabilities via the FLE II. And they achieved what they wanted, the new lens is significantly better than the older lens.
@@mathphotographer you should also compare the Leica APO to that of the Voigtlander APO’s- more complex lens construction with more aspherical surfaces and one extra aperture blade. Downside is that it’s a longer lens.
After f/2 you still didn’t compare them at the same apertures. I understand the Summilux is faster, but it would be nice to see the colors, contrast, bokeh and sharpness at the same exact apertures.
Understood. I showed f/2.8, and the wider open range from f/1.4 resp. f/2 to f/2.8 which was what interested me but you are right, I will also look into the two lenses at f/5.6 (typically the sweet spot on Leica-M lenses) and more stopped down at f/8. Thanks for your feedback.
I've tried them both. The Sony has way less CA when wide open, but it's physically huge in comparison. The Summilux is all about a great balance between image quality and size.
You will not be able to focus in the near range, I guess, because the rangefinder will not cover that near distance and the analogue M's do not have focus peaking, display or EVF of course.
I’m so bummed. That’s my second copy. The first had defective aperture blades. This one has real bad front focusing issue. Impossible to get sharp images at 1.4 on the OVF
Thanks for sharing Benoit. You are not alone, my first unit of the new Summilux was not capable to get sharp images when focusing at infinity. Leica replaced it and now everything works like a charm. Talk to your Leica Store if your unit is not performing.
@@mathphotographer turns out my 3rd copy had been checked before shipping. So it seems that the diaphragm got damaged during shipping. Pretty weak. Sounds like Leica stopped production. They should recall the lenses. It’s not just 1 batch and there is a chance the “ok” ones could go bad during transport.
Humm i was expecting some real differences considering the price difference but cant justify the extra $3k. Also just a humble suggestion. it's not worth overusing the word "sharp" when describing Leica lenses. Sounded more like a Sony review LOL. But thank you
This is a wonderful review. Thank you! Others have commented on the important rendering and optical differences so I will comment on something else. Your description of both make us feel like we are holding and using both of these lenses; only for Leica does one talk about the lens hoods and caps and feel of the aperture ring in such detail. I can’t image caring about any of this for Nikon, Canon or even Fuji glass. But it’s great you discuss this in such a comprehensive but concise way. It makes these videos so much more enjoyable and gives one more insight into the “soul” of the Leica M system which is so important to those that use it.
Thanks DR C for your kind feedback!
Thank you for the review. The summicron seems much sharper at F2 (if looke at your video at 19:54 minutes). As for the summilux, the new version should be exactly like the old one, especially wide open, since optically they are exactly the same.
I've also noticed it, very significant difference
I’m deciding between these two lenses, and your review has been incredibly helpful! Because optically the FLEI and FLEII are the same without the close focus capability, your review implies that the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 FLE I (not the FLEII shown here) is a fantastic lens with optics comparable to the APO at smaller apertures. A used FLE I costs just a third of the APO’s price. While it lacks close-focus capability and has some purple fringing, it still delivers that classic Leica look at apertures wider than f/2.8, with sharpness similar to the APO from f/2.8 and up.
Actually, the only real world difference is the hood and the price between these two very capable lenses
Great review as always
As I, for the most part, use B&W film, the hair-splitting edge that the Summicron has on colour fidelity is of little importance. Although, for photographing artwork for reproduction, the Summicrons have always been my choice within the Leica range. The absence of distortion is also of critical importance. These lenses at between 5.6 and f8 are superb.
The APO cron looks slightly sharper in the centre close-up even when stopped down to f/2.8. But it is massively sharper in the edges at f/2, showing far less coma and lower colour aberrations at distance, just look at the street lights at 19:50 and the grass and foliage at 19:53 in the video. You didn't show the far corners at all, so the APO cron's advantage may still have held there at f/8, although I imagine both lenses are losing acuity from diffraction at that aperture.
Correct - The Apo is a bit better in the corners. But in post you can correct a lot of issues and these images are out of camera without post and without corrections. I did not apply any lens profiles here which will fix most of the issues you mention in LR.
we need NEW Leica Summilux-M 35mm vs the old one Comparison :)
They are the same optical design.
From an optical perspective, the main differences are the following: 11 aperture blades instead of formerly 9 which makes blurry background lights in the bokeh more circular and the improved close-up distance now at 0.4m instead of formerly 0.7m. Everything else (except the design of the lens) did not change.
@@mathphotographer I do think it would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of the blurry backgrounds and bokeh between the two versions of the FLE. Especially between F2 and F5.6. This would help two groups of people: 1) FLE v1 owners who aren't sure if they should upgrade. 2) People looking to buy a FLE v1 because they will save money on a nice used copy.
Yes please when ? 😮
@@mathphotographer which is better for 60mp m11?
I enjoy your thoroughness, but it wasn't until you mentioned the APO lack of CA, that my choice was affirmed. I found a new copy of the 35mm APO and bought it right away--then the new FLE came out. I wondered if I had made a mistake, especially considering price. I'm relieved. The Summicron is better for my usage. If I want to do street at night I have a Voigtlander 35mm f12. II, which serves my purposes just fine.
which store did you find it ? I'm looking for one
Thanks for this highly anticipated comparison review.
Pleasure :)
😍😅
At 19.55 the window is sharper on the apo lens, the is some difference between rhe 2 lenses in sharpness in the night test imo, thank you for the review!
I like the colors of the f2 apo summicron! Thank you for the video!
Great video!!! Thanks a lot! This Summilux is very very close to the Apo Summicron (apart from the price...)!
Exactly Tom - that's why I found it very interesting to deep dive on the comparison.
The colors are surprisingly different between the two. The Summilux is warmer and the Summicron is cooler.
As far as I know any modern (or any one ever made I suppose) M lens can have a tighter or looser aperture ring if you specify that in a CLA, adjust it yourself if you know how, or it comes that way from the factory. I don't think the 35/1.4 FLE v2 is especially different or unique in the design or construction of the aperture mechanism, maybe Leica just decided to set them tighter from out of the gate.
A great review of comparison of new Leica Summilux 35mm f1.4 and Apo-Summicron 35mm f2 lenses. Thanks!
Glad you found the review helpful.
I have the new Summilux. It is very good - although I would prefer a harder delineation between the close focus part and the normal part.
I actually ended up getting what was the only copy of that lens in NZ at the time, partly because there were no Apo lenses and I was advised I would have to wait at least 12 months to get one. I decided I probably would never tell the difference in daily use for practical purposes so went with what I could get.
Outstanding comparison video!
Thank you!
its a joke not comparison . ive had 35 lux its a crap soft once you out of center no matter 1.4-5.6 crazy CA . 35apo is superb its so contrasty and sharp (90per cent MTF 40LP ) that it just obliterate 50apo that is 62per cent MTF 40LP . 35 lux only decent if you have 24mp and barely able to zoom in enough .once you at 40mp , not to mention 60mp , the flaws become so apparent that only idiot wouldn't face them . same goes to all Luxes . they're good if one does not zoom in or/and uses BW .
From this nice video I would say Leica did a great job with the Summilux.
Against the app it’s 98% but I believe it’s on or with Voigtlander Apo.
That makes it a great lens.
no edge/corner comparison and color fringing comparison on high contrast edges?
Hi. Like your videos.
I bought the new summilux but I noticed that the “stop” between 0,7 and 0,6 is too smooth. Sometimes while I’m focusing I go under 0,7 because there a soft stop. I don’t know if I explained correctly what I mean
Thanks for this video; I've been looking for just such a direct comparison of these two lenses. I'm still on the waiting list for the APO, but think I'll pick up the new FLE II to play with while I wait. If I'm as happy with the FLE II as I expect, I'll probably pass on the APO. The new lens is a great achievement for Leica and I can't wait to get my hands on one.
Indeed. The Apo-Summicron is still my favorite but the Summilux comes very very close and has the advantage of one more stop wider aperture.
@@mathphotographer 虽然我不会英语，我是通过在线翻译看您的回复的， 暂时买不到APO，就先买一支 FLE II 来玩
Thanks for another clear and objective review.
Thanks!
Color rendering is definitely better in Apo Summicron. It’s not just about sharpness it’s also color accuracy. Apo is way better!
Are the colours / tonal / contrast a lot better on new 35 Summilux or 35 Apo?
Is the colour a lot of difference on the new APO compared to the new 35mm Lux ?
I prefer the color out of the Summilux here. Was white balance on auto, or set to a specific value? Do you find the same color differences in practical shooting?
Honestly, I was *this close* to buying a 35 APO but I’m rethinking that now. Very impressed with this 35 FLE II. The only thing you seem to lose is the excellent contrast of the APO.
Around 19m50s I see noticeable differences: more sunstars, coma, and and loca on the Summilux than than the APO-Summicron.
The Apo is optically better, no question. But if you post-process the images you can get the Summilux very very close to the Apo-Summicron. Remember, I showed images out of camera, no post and no corrections :)
@@mathphotographer acknowledged and I definitely like and appreciate the video! The commentary was still one of seeing no difference, and sunstar points and coma corrections are not so easy in post. LoCA, sure.
Can you please add one more important comparison? That is shooting back lighted subject. The “APO” attribute of Sumicron should “shine” there. Thank you
Thanks for your comparison...
Apo-Summicron is better... is best Leica lens.
and... view angle little bit different...
Thanks for the comparison!
Please do a 50mm apo summicron vs a 50mm summilux asph
darf ich bitte fragen, welche schutzfolie du für deine M11 nutzt? die sitzt wirklich sehr gut.
zu den Bildvergleichen: ein Unterschied in der Farbtemperatur hat massiv Auswirkungen auf den subjektiven Eindruck. Sollte die Farbtemperatur bei beiden identisch sein, ok, wenn nicht sollte man die beiden mal gleichziehen (nur die Farbtemp.) und nochmal den Bildlook vergleichen.
Kalte Bilder wirken oft kontrastreicher
Danke für den Hinweis, noted. Die Folien die ich nutze sind von Dipos: www.dipos.de Einfach M10 oder ähnlich dort suchen, passt perfekt.
As usually, a great review. Thank you! I own the APO-Summicron 35mm and previous version of the Summicron 35mm ASPH FLE. I would be interested to see a comparison of these two lenses on an M11. Cheers!
Thanks for the kind feedback, Bud. Generally a good suggestion for a review, many thanks. I will see where it fits in, currently there are a lot of topics in the video pipeline :)
@@mathphotographer I ordered the new Summilux-M 35mm based on yours and a few other reviews. Thanks again.
@@budjames4137 Can i know what made you get the fle v2 en yiu have the apo summicron and fle v1?
@@allena3430 the close focus feature,
.
So, no need for the APO when you stop down the Lux and get the same sharpness at around f2 or f2.8. Also, you have the opportunity to shoot more soft and dreamy portraits at f1.4, not to mention the price difference of about 3000$
The APO will be sharper still. The rendering will be crisper and the bokeh will be smoother as well.
Source: had both lenses and kept the APO.
The colour saturation on the APO is orders of magnitude higher than the lux. Not to mention the veiling flare and CA that’s present on the lux in those night shots. Might look nice BnW as character but is distracting in the colour images.
Summilux 35 mm 1.4 Wins ; Portraiture is what I crave , I use many Canon L39 lenses including the Dream Lens 50mm 0.95 , I love my L39 F1.2 Canon lens , and my A.Schact Ulm 90mm 2.8 , yes an M42 lens ....try the 90mm 16 blade Schact Ulm lens , and hold on to your socks ....you will be shocked.
Wonder if you will visit Leica SL2 too with these lenses and compare with the L mount ones. Thanks.
Many thanks for the video! it killed my sumi35apo order as i already have the new lux 35..As you tested both systems, what do you prefer M11 with lux35 or X2d with 55mm ?
The M11 has that special Leica look. The Hassi X2D provides higher resolution and Hasselblad Natural Color Science. Its not comparable and your choice will be a matter of taste.
Thanks, very interesting! Both lenses look beautiful to me but I’m not used to the faster lens being cheaper, so an easy choice really. It’s sad the lens aperture is not correctly recorded by such a new Leica. I was alarmed by the white balance difference in the red flowers. The new lens would clearly be super for street photography, but when you do your star shots I’m not sure that wide open will be usable to get really sharp stars...please prove me wrong!
It is impossible for any Leica M camera to report the actual lens aperture, simply because there is no mechanical nor electronic feedback to let the camera read the aperture ring position manually set on the lens.
I'm sorry I must disagree with you, Math, with regard to your own perception of contrast and sharpness netween these two lenses, mostly when you compare their yielded results at smaller apertures. Contrary to yours, my perception on the two lenses, side by side, at smaller apertures, at all, I stress, ALL shown images, the Summicron IS definitely distinguished from the Summilux. Sharper, more contrast and more natural colors. In some instances you comment "almost". Yes, I agree but, that "almost" makes all the difference. Do you wear glasses? That might explain why I see the better IQ of the Summicron in all instances. As for the bokeh again, while the Summilux does yield a dreamier look both at the foreground and background, the subject target is negatively affected on its sharpness. It's the same as wearing a wrong graded eyeglasses for the whole scenario. In real life, Math, I want to see my main subject crispy clear with a gentle fall off bokeh. The Summicron gives me that. While the Summilux bokeh is really dreamy, the Summicron is dreamy enough. In this case, the "almost" parameter is absolutely irrelevant. Finally, for street photography, the ideal purpose of the 35mm focus length, human expression, subtle eye glimpses and the like, millimeter subtlety will bring one's tears or not. Paying 3 grand more is dirty cheap for a priceless emotion.
Thanks Ricardo. The Apo-Summicron is still my favorite M-lens at all times, I love shooting it and I said it various times in videos :) In my perception the new Summilux-M is a fantastic lens too and I like it a lot but as I said in many of my Leica videos, the Apo-Summicron-M 35 likely is the only lens in the M-portfolio you really need :)
That's a wise appraisal that summarizes how fun it can be to bring one's vision of the world out there into a magical metal box.
Thanks for this comparison
is the optical performance of 35mm FLE1 Summilux and 35mm FLE2 Summilux the same? Is FLE2 designed for higher mega pixels?
very good video, very didactic, like all the ones you do, congratulations
Very Good analysis
Thank you for the comparison!! Do you think the chromatic difference between the two lens are almost equal as well? I'm thinking that the extra $$$ on the Summicron would correct the chromatic edges better than what we could do in post-processing?
See the slight hint of green in the out of focus horizontal crack in the wall on the image at 14:07 from the lux, while the cron shows none at all. That is from the better correction of longitudinal chromatic aberrations due to the APO design of the cron. The image at 19:50 also shows the bad chromatic aberrations of the lux, evident in the street lights tinged with purple.
The new Summilux clearly is significantly better than the older Summilux but the optical construction of the Apo-Summicron has its advantages in the edges, correct.
@@Bayonet1809 Thank you!! Yes those two examples certainly show chromatic aberrations (the green on the edge of the bricks in the first example, and the purple on the street lights in the second example). Wondering if post processing would help removing those aberrations on the FLE II Lux completely? My 50 Nocti has such severe aberrations (not a complaint necessarily, as that adds to the character), that post processing does not get rid of them completely.
@@rsharma5901 I have never had much success using dedicated chromatic aberration tools (i.e. those in Lightroom or Capture One) to remove these sorts of aberrations, they can sometimes reduce them, but they always seem to remain to some extent.
The only sure-fire way to remove them is using a selective colour desaturated masked layer in Photoshop or Capture One, but this is very time consuming and laborious. Thus I have come to favour apochromatically corrected (APO) lenses as they simplify my workflow.
@@Bayonet1809 just shoot BnW problem solved
very nice video, that helps me a lot. The apo is definitely to clean for me, a perfect lens, but to perfect for me. The Summilux should be the right lens for me. Thanks a lot.
Great you liked the video. And if you post-process images you can bring the Summilux even closer to the Apo-Summicron. I did not even apply any lens profiles in LR here, just showed pure DNG out of camera.
@@mathphotographer Yes and with todays technology for post processing...you can sharpen that a tad to rival the APO and still have the dreamy background. I prefer the 1.4 summilux which I recently purchased. I canceled my APO order which has been backordered and your test confirmed my right choice. Lens can look too clinical and I do a mix of street and general.....
I found all leica lenses have some play at the end of the aperture range. You'd expect a more solid design when paying a few grand for a lens. On the other hand, my voigtlander lenses feel way more solid.
The APO sum micron is always going to be the expensive one, because it is a corrected lease, and the chromatic aberration is very minimal..
I wonder how would the bokeh look like, at 30cm @ f/2 vs 40cm @ f/1.4. Also, the APO lens might be better in managing color fringing and accuracy.
Correct - I did shoot the Apo-Summicron-M 35mm at 0.3m and then the bokeh is even more soft, the closer the softer.
And the fact that the Apo has more ASPH surfaces is also helpful of course to avoid optical errors.
Thanks! As always, your videos are clear and informative. 😊
Hi, Great comp. Thank you! Would you please compare the new Leica Summilux-m 35mm f1.4 with the older f1.4 35mm it has replaced? Thanks you.
Thanks - I will consider.
@@mathphotographer please do it the newer one designed for M11 higher pixels camera
APO may be sharper, but the Summilux will always be more beautiful and three dimensional. Sharpness is overrated.
Thanks and agree.
Agree. If I wanted sharp and clinical my Sony 135mm G Master can give the APO a run for its money. To me you get a Leica for the character it brings to your photos.
It is not a good idea to use purple/pink subjects to compare APO with non-APO, as the biggest advantage of an APO lens is the lack of longitudinal chromatic aberration which is particularly annoying when producing purple fringing in front of focus. Also, you should match white balance when comparing shots.
Does the lens cap for the apo fit the Lux???
Have the aperture blades detched yet? Sounds like all the shipped lens' have been recalled..
Mine is perfectly fine.
Please do image quality (raw) tests of Leica M11 with 35mm Lux and 35mm APO. Then attach these lens to Sony A7RV using Voigtlander close adapter. Then also test on A7RV Sony 35mm GM lens and compare to Leica
Sony are generally terrible with Leica lenses. Their sensors aren’t designed to handle the extreme incident angles.
I don’t have an APO (honestly, feels like a bad use of money) but do have the Summilux FLE and had an A7RIV and 35 1.4 GM at the same time (as well as the Voigtlander M adapter). The Sony 35 has great color and correctness, but so large that it’s impractical to carry (IMO) and lacked character. If you don’t mind those things, it’s a great lens.
Does the metal lens cap from the APO fit on the Summilux? It did on the FLE v1
Oh - good point, I need to try this tomorrow.
Wonder if there is any purple fringing when shooting under bright sunlight with the Summilux?
Possible - but can be easily corrected in post.
@@mathphotographer Thanks
The MTF Charts don't lie. The APO is superior but for daily use and portrait its a toss up.
Are the colours / tonal / contrast a lot better on new 35 Summilux or 35 Apo?
Color, tone etc. is really good on both lenses. The Apo has a bit more contrast and clearly is sharper.
I wonder what exactly did Leica do here…better glass formula, better lens polishing, better metals, seems like a lot of RD for very minor gains. Were they not satisfied in the old lens ability to resolve new high megapixel sensors. Was the old factory tooling getting old and it was time to update. What?
Thanks William. I think their main motivation was to update the mechanics and, most importantly, provide better close-up capabilities via the FLE II. And they achieved what they wanted, the new lens is significantly better than the older lens.
Plus 11 blades instead of 9 before, which makes blurry background lights in the bokeh more circular.
@@mathphotographer you should also compare the Leica APO to that of the Voigtlander APO’s- more complex lens construction with more aspherical surfaces and one extra aperture blade. Downside is that it’s a longer lens.
Do you feel same about 50mm between APO 2.0 & 50mm 1.4?
APO Summicron is always sharper than a Summilux at all focal lengths :)
After f/2 you still didn’t compare them at the same apertures. I understand the Summilux is faster, but it would be nice to see the colors, contrast, bokeh and sharpness at the same exact apertures.
Understood. I showed f/2.8, and the wider open range from f/1.4 resp. f/2 to f/2.8 which was what interested me but you are right, I will also look into the two lenses at f/5.6 (typically the sweet spot on Leica-M lenses) and more stopped down at f/8. Thanks for your feedback.
We need a direct comparison to the Sony 35mm 1.4 gmaster
I've tried them both. The Sony has way less CA when wide open, but it's physically huge in comparison. The Summilux is all about a great balance between image quality and size.
@@chadrem thanks for your reply. I would love to see if the Sony looks as smooth in transitions and focus/contrast fall off?
Great video. Thanks.
Pleasure :)
El poseedor de cualquiera de estas ópticas es un ser envidiado por mí🙃
Comprenda completamente: es una Leica lente fantástica.
Does it mean 0.4-0.7m is not working on Analog Ms?
You will not be able to focus in the near range, I guess, because the rangefinder will not cover that near distance and the analogue M's do not have focus peaking, display or EVF of course.
I think the APO is very dreamy in its own way.
APO sharper edge to edge
I’m so bummed. That’s my second copy. The first had defective aperture blades. This one has real bad front focusing issue. Impossible to get sharp images at 1.4 on the OVF
Thanks for sharing Benoit. You are not alone, my first unit of the new Summilux was not capable to get sharp images when focusing at infinity. Leica replaced it and now everything works like a charm. Talk to your Leica Store if your unit is not performing.
@@mathphotographer I just got my 3rd copy and this one has 3 bad aperture blades.... Im desperate
@@mathphotographer turns out my 3rd copy had been checked before shipping. So it seems that the diaphragm got damaged during shipping. Pretty weak. Sounds like Leica stopped production. They should recall the lenses. It’s not just 1 batch and there is a chance the “ok” ones could go bad during transport.
35mm APO is definitely sharper
Also bei so teuren Objektiven, würde ich diese mit keinem noch so teuren "Filter" in ihren optischen Qualitäten "verschlimmbessern" wollen!
Das sind beides Leica original Filter, top Qualität. Da verschlimmbessert sich nichts :)
@@mathphotographer Wenn LEICA die selber herstellt, heisse ich Friedrich! 😂
@@wolfrainerschmalfuss3515 they’re all Schott glass. Probably B&W
the colour difference is insane and you hardly mention it.
Agree - I did not focus on color but your observation is spot-on :)
then , why buy apo summicron?
There is not such difference between the two, except in the price. And the superiority of the Summicron is so small, that I prefer the Summilux
They are very close as you can see in sample images, spot on comment.
Humm i was expecting some real differences considering the price difference but cant justify the extra $3k. Also just a humble suggestion. it's not worth overusing the word "sharp" when describing Leica lenses. Sounded more like a Sony review LOL. But thank you
Why did this pop up when I should be going to sleep?? Ugh
How come no serious photographer ever uses these?