I also dislike how they overwork Treyarch. Just let Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer make their own zombie mode. At the end of the day if you strech Treyarch too thin that all of the games they work on will suffer because they cant focus on one project.
The reason why zombies is even fun in the first place is because A Treyarch put heart and soul into the mode while also making fantastic campaigns and Multiplayer, and they had funding and a good story. Until Activision decided to go for cheap money grabs with BlackOut, Zombies was fucking amazing. Giving Treyarch time and money to give us a good zombies mode, story and expierence, they would make even MORE money.
22:00 The problem with Complexity is having to find 5 items and do 4 rituals just to get a basic feature. Spaceland did this really well, Perks and Pack a Punch are very easy to get and the complexity is for higher tier items
But how long does that realistically take on SOE? Maybe 10 minutes? I don't think that's too long to get PaP. As long as the process is fun (which I think the rituals and using beast mode is VERY fun) then it's all good. I don't even think it's that complex, the game shows you exactly what to do with the symbols on the items you are supposed to shock or grapple.
@@Xpertfusion yeah i don't think it's fun having to memorize 5 part locations and routes. Maybe once, but doing it EVERY SINGLE TIME is extremely annoying. Also Rituals themselves aren't anything special, you kinda just run around for 15 seconds and then kill a margwa. And think about it, that's 10 minutes dedicated to a boring setup phase, in Spaceland your speed is dictated by your ability to gain points, you never have to go out of your way to get essential features, progression comes naturally instead of bringing your fun to a screeching halt to do boring sidequests.
@@rabituin1474 are those 5 things hard to memorize though? It became muscle memory for me after like 3 times playing the map. Also, they literally highlight the parts while in beast mode, kind of hard to miss. I personally think it’s a fun process. There isn’t many maps where I think the setup is boring (unless it’s something like Tranzit or a map that doesn’t have any real “setup”) I just don’t see these setups as annoying. I guess that’s why I’m calling it an unpopular opinion. I think it’s fun and engaging. A map just being about getting points and that’s it is less interesting to me. Even Spaceland has tons of other little setup related things to do. Most of which are optional of course but still. Maps need it.
@@rabituin1474 well idk, if you mention you don’t wanna memorize locations, it sounds like a difficulty-related thing. Cuz you really don’t have to “memorize” them if you played the map more than a few times cuz it usually becomes muscle memory. And like I said, they glow pretty obviously, so again, you don’t have to memorize them
I always liked that analogy you gave with round based where taking it out is like if they took out 6v6 for a year in mp. It's just what zombies should be and the open world stuff is a good accesory
My favorite thing about this video is that it highlights how many different opinions there are, and none of them are wrong. IW Zombies is a great example. So many different opinions. There are those who hate it, those who love it, those who are indifferent. I do like, and agree with, the observation that many people evaluate maps based on how good they are at them. I've gone from hating a map to loving it because I got to know it better. As I got better, it grew on me. Witnessing this change makes me realize this is almost certainly happening to others. I also want to second the idea that zombies should be a part of every CoD release, and each should be developed by the individual studio handling that particular game. Yes, we'll get some duds be we may also potentially get a new interpretation of the mode that is an absolute masterpiece. Anyway, cheers!
Thanks!! And yes, I've seen it happen so often where someone is doing an easter egg for the first time and they keep going down and all the while constantly complaining about how awful the map is, but then they end up actually beating it in the end and they end up saying "that wasn't too bad actually" lol. Not that it always happens, but I feel like people need to recognize when its bad game design or just them not fully understanding the map yet.
I agree with the mwz point. Its a soulless product. Its fun to dick around at first but the more I played it, the more I got pissed off by it. Its clear that treyarch want to do much more but they’re shackled by activision. No interesting playable characters, no environmental storytelling, no personality, no charm, BS mechanics, BS cooldowns, no rounds, no side modes, very little emergent gameplay, no solo, no split screen, no offline, a repetitive grind, NO LONGEVITY TO THE MODE No matter what updates they do to mwz, it wont fix the core issues, or hide the fact that its built off of DMZs corpse…
Exactly! I’d be shocked if Treyarch actually came up with the idea for the mode themselves. It seems more like something Activison wanted them to do as an “extension” to DMZ.
@@Xpertfusion FR. My heart goes out to all of the devs and studios that are under activisions boot. Raven is getting absolutely shafted. They cant make their own ip games, and have been stuck in warzone support limbo for forever now. Treyarch are forced to shoehorn zombies every year now like you said in your videos, no doubt pulling away resources and manpower from what they actually want to do. Plus they have to churn out new games AND support warzone & ranked modes in the current cod, all under a 2 year dev cycle?? Sledgehammer aren’t allowed to make their own cod games. Advanced warfare 2 was shut down, and their other creative ideas were shut down too. And now they’ve been forced to fix infinity wards mistakes and try to salvage the multiplayer (which theyve been doing a great job at imo)
i absolutely adore hearing someone praise IW and WWII zombies!. not perfect, but super refreshing and aging really good for 3/4 of the content basically. i still struggle to accept that Spaceland is a real CALL OF DUTY ZOMBIES map??? and I hope to see this franchise trying something ballsy like this again
47 minutes of facts. The thing about MWZ and CW is that they're so brainless and empty. Nothing your characters do in the map feel like u do anything relating to the story and the atmosphere is severly lacking. The thing with traditional zombies is that no matter if ur just shooting zombies, doing easter eggs, or chilling with friends - The Map and atmosphere makes u think "oh there's something going on here, maybe I should look more into it". If you knew about the story/lore, then you felt like you and ur characters were progressing and you "actually felt like u were doing something". If they can replicate that feeling, then Yes.. I would do the same Easter Egg over and over again. And PLEASE for the love of god make it difficult. I enjoyed BO3 and to an extent the BO4 EE's purely because you'd fail, re-do them, learn how to do it better, and succeed in the end.
The last part of the video i absolutely agree with. I’ve allways been a very big supporter of non treyarch zombies. But alot of the community and youtubers just have this mindset of “only treyarch good non treyarch bad” having each studio have their own zombie team would be hella ideal. every year just have new takes and more content for zombies. There would be no lose in the situation. Such as you talking about people asking “how would atlantis fit in the story” it wouldn’t really need to fit the main story in another studios own zombies
WWll for me nailed it on head for a complex game that still allows casuals to figure stuff out. Especially since you have the Notebook that straight up tells you how many steps you have left with a specific part of the egg. I don’t expect a cause to find the Morse code step in shadowed throne but they definitely can find the pieces to the Ripsaw and Tesla gun.
28:08 I don't like long setup processes because if I die I really don't feel like going back to setup from square 1. It's why I like de more than orgins. Getting an upgraded bow is way faster than an upgraded staff.
But for me, doing those upgrade processes IS fun and always will be fun (assuming it’s a good map like Origins or DE). I’d rather that then have everything too quickly and then off to having nothing else to do on the map. Also, I guess it depends on what we consider “setup”. Cuz that depends on what you wanna do. You technically don’t even need the wonder weapons on those maps if you’re just playing for fun.
Its a miracle that cw turned out as good as it did. Whether or not you like Cw, you gotta respect it for what it did. Vanguard also suffered from poor mismanagement, all of this sucks so bad for the devs and artists
Origins is overrated. The staffs, fists, and such are very tedious. Not fun to train on too many spawn locations. Still great but I’d say it’s top 10. DE and SoE do the fetch quest much better.
I feel like BO4s perk system would be perfect if they added 2 more slots and at 2 perks you get jug and 4 you get speed and at 6 you get double tap that kind of thing. Also they should bring back chaos
Firstly I recently bought and played the DLC maps for Black Ops IV, mind you I knew nothing about the DLC prior except for Classifed being a remaster of Five. I also find Alpha Omega to be a diamond in the rough, not the best experience, but it pays homage to Nuketown. Underrated zombies experience in general :3 Secondly I also highly greenlight the complexity take, as well as questing. For perspective im no where near at being amongst the best of zombie players, but what really keeps me playing is the immense world of the maps, and different paths of play. While having a pretty fair amount of runs die in the single digits, adapting a route to set up shop for figuring out the map and venturing out in the later rounds conspensated for all of that piss poor play. I didn't know much about Origins, Five, or Blood Of The Dead, but eventually acquiring hells retriever, hearing won't back down, and getting a staff all for the first time felt rewarding. I didn't even know about the Dead Of The Night room until this very video :3. There's just always something to learn or figure out. I also hope that round based zombies stay. :3. Other then that, awesome video.
Thanks! And I agree with all your points, having a bunch of quests that are complex only adds to the experience for all players. There's definitely some improvements the devs could make but at the very least they should be complex.
@Xpertfusion Hey, you're welcome! Also, yeah, I can say for certain it's added to my experience :3. Oh, for sure, and I think you highlighted an improvement. Let the game tell the player hints of what to do generally, but let the player figure out how to do it themselves, let it be complex, though. Also, I have no idea why they did away with how BOIV handled custom games. I feel like mutations helped introduce players to zombies without compromising the ideal experience.
I agree with 26:58 so much. I love straight up survival and wish we had some maps with a survival version with PaP and perks readily available, while the main map remains mysterious for hardcore fans. Basically I'd love nuketown and farm with the beauty of SoE, ZnS, and all the visually stunning maps out there.
My hottest take is bo3 is the most overrated zombies we have had. All the guns are boring and look and sound like toys and only have 3 good maps being soe zns and rev. The story got so weird and just lost what it once had. Use to be nazis trying to won the war and messin with a space element and all hell breaking out. Also de is just a origins clone and only added a boss fight and while epic its still as little inovation as kino. Also chronicals was awsome but it really got boring fast and the bo1 and waw maps are way better on their og games. And the gum is the same as the elixers and people cant decide if thwy like or hate them. Also even without aats and gum its mind boggling easy
Alpha Omega deserved the hate because in 2019, when most of the maps were originals, we got a recycled trash zone from the Blackout zone, but with zombies, on a 50$ dollar Season Pass, so it kinda felt like a scam, because at first they stated in the Season Pass how every map would be "a new map" and then they changed that with "new experiences" so, yeah, i kinda see the point of the hate.
Besides Zombies in Spaceland, I gave infinite warfare a lot of crap. I never played it but only hear bad things about the DLC maps. My brother and I bought it on sale and did all the easter eggs including Mephistopheles, most of the ghost and skull machines, and a few side easter eggs for emblems. It was one of the best zombies experiences I've had. It has a lot of charm and unique esthetics. Attack of the Radio Active Thing and Shaolin Shuffle are goated maps.
Been playing Cod Zombies since B01 and I love all zombie maps include Vanguard. I appreciate the amount of time the developers put in to each Zombie map.
I agree that it’s better to have in-game quests to get more than 4 perks, but I think Cold War’s upgrade system was perfect and really gave something to grind for. One of my favorite parts of the whole game.
What's so much worse about shi no numa reborn and the archon compared to cold war's maps? I don't think they are great maps by any means, but like they aren't really awful either. They have the same issues as cold war's maps in my opinion.
The problem with the zombies community is because they are so biased towards the older zombie games like bo2 zombies and because they are so biased towards origins and buried and what not because those maps are “amazing” they want every other cod zombies mode to be identical otherwise it’s garbage personally I don’t mind the open world thing but the stuff that people complain about towards the open world mode you can same the something about round based all you do is play round after round after round and it gets so boring and time consuming for nothing atleast when you finish a open world map match you get stuff at the end unlike round based and you get jack shit
Biases do exist, but I wouldn't say anyone who wants maps more similar to their favorites is necessarily "biased", they just want maps that they love again, that's all.
I wouldn't mind the main quest structure from cold war going forward, just have really hard boss fights. That's exactly what DE did and people loved it, and modern zombies needs more of a challenge. Tough boss fights would fix that for me.
My favorite part of zombies is the complexity and it’s the reason I have so much time put into it. However it needs to be fun like in shadows of evil. Not the tediousness of zetsubo
Tbh my favorite maps tend to be based on how creative/distinct/unique they are. Moon is frustrating as hell but I love it just cause its gimmicks, and I really like Alcatraz and kino for the setting
The reason they made Easter eggs simple in Cold War is because less than 2% of all players ever did them because they were so complicated and you had to use a guide 99% of the time
You might be shocked to learn that majority of people still used guides even in Cold War's Easter Eggs lol. I'm aware they made them easier for that reason, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing especially since people use guides still anyways. Also, the 2% statistic is very misleading because it's 2% of anyone who's ever purchased the games (including players who don't even touch Zombies at all), so it's not really fair to include Campaign and MP players in the discussion I feel like. Also, past Easter Eggs were sometimes locked behind DLC and obviously people are less likely to do EEs for DLC maps compared to Launch maps due to less people having the DLC maps. CW's EE completion for Die Maschine was like a 4.5% or something, so not even like a crazy high increase compared to other maps. Idk if that's worth it for them to kill the hardcore experience. They could certainly find ways to make it still fun, complicated, and challenging for hardcore fans while having easier options available (like what The Final Reich did)
Great video! Totally agree that modern zombies is too grounded, lacks soul and character. Especially since the trial system is identical in every Cold War map. Also I personally like exo zombies cause I saw it as its own zombie experience rather then comparing it to treyarchs zombies
38:56 I know this is a month old at this point, but the fact that you made an entire video about HUD being important and how having Warzone HUD is immersion breaking and doesn’t fit the theme of zombies (which I do agree with), and yet you’re completely fine with “just watch a 10-15 minute video on guides for playing the map” is baffling to me. I would consider myself a more relatively hardcore player (not as much as many UA-camrs) and being essentially forced to look up guides for how to play a map instead of having things in-game naturally progress or have intuitive areas is incredibly tedious and immersion breaking. It’s the same sort of feeling as pulling up a map of part locations and mindlessly checking each one. It just feels like a chore. It doesn’t matter if I’d only have to look up a guide maybe once or twice and then play the map a handful of times to get it. The fact that I even have to look up a guide at all is the issue. Now, I can understand needing to look up Easter egg guides because they are designed to be way more in-depth and have unintuitive steps. But I shouldn’t need to look up a guide to know how to do simple things like turn on power, pack a punch, or get perks. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not asking for Cold War levels of handholding where there’s a minimap and everything is labeled with waypoint markers. Just for the act of setting up to get all your perks and pack a punch to be straightforward, and leave the more complicated ideas for Easter eggs and secrets
Here's the thing though... 99% of maps do NOT require a guide for simple things like PaP, Perks, and Power. These things are actually quite easy to solve on your own on any map (maybe 1-2 exceptions like the coin under Juggernog on Shaolin is dumb lol). When people complain those things are unsolvable, they usually only attempt to figure it out for like an hour and then give up lol. I'd love to hear specific examples of simple things on maps that you felt like were "impossible to solve without a guide" because I just can't agree there (other than maybe 1-2 exceptions) Same with part locations. Unless it's a very hard to find object with no interact prompt (which only ever really happens in Easter Eggs). But shield parts or pretty much any other part like that is VERY obvious to find and once you learn the general area, you should really never forget it. In that point of the video, I was specifically talking about Easter Eggs. I also mention that I do think they could do a much better job of giving hints (without making them stupidly easy), but my point there was that it doesn't ruin my experience at all by having to look up a guide for a few steps. Maybe check out the "Decline in Quality" Easter Egg video I recently made because I talk a lot about this. For majority of maps, I don't have to keep checking a guide multiple times. Usually just learning it once is all I need, some maps I do use a cheat sheet (like Origins), but that's completely separate from what's on my screen, so I don't really see it as "immersion breaking".
@@Xpertfusion The coin on Shaolin is probably the biggest example I can give, and I’ll be honest that there aren’t too many maps where setting up is an issue, but my point was that it should never be to begin with and that shouldn’t even need to be a talking point. And for me, anything that takes my eyes off the screen is immersion breaking. I’ll admit whenever I do play zombies, I’ll often look up a part locations map, and it’s still tedious every time, especially when revisiting maps or games I don’t play frequently. I would rather the parts always consistently be in exactly one location so after I find it once, I wouldn’t even need to think of looking up a map. In hindsight, I probably should’ve mentioned part locations as well in my original comment because that’s moreso the thing I take issue with and the reason I often need to pull out my phone or something and look up a map
@@hoagieland3716 But you don't have to do that; you aren't required to. You are choosing to look it up because you don't find searching around the map to be fun. That should really be your argument. But finding them for the first time, isn't really that bad. I don't think I've ever looked up part locations. They place them very deliberately. So, you know there's 3 shield parts, you know that each part will ALWAYS be in the same general area right? That never changes. So you saying there should only be one location is kind of true, it's just maybe a few meters apart from each other in that area. And in BO4, you could even go into custom mutations and turn on the option to "highlight all shield parts", which makes learning the location very easy in-game. I do understand your argument, but I don't think that necessarily makes it a "requirement" to look up guides, people just sometimes choose to. And like I talk about in the video, when it comes to Easter Eggs, I don't really mind doing it, doesn't mean it's ideal though (better than having stupidly easy quests anyways). It's not immersion breaking to me because I usually only look up the guide for specific steps if I am stuck on it for a LONG time. But after doing them a bunch, it ain't too bad.
@@Xpertfusion I’ll be honest when I say I never really ever touched custom mutations at all. BO4 in general for me was just kinda meh. I didn’t love it, but I didn’t hate it either. Part of that was probably the change to the perk system, which I didn’t really like. And another part was probably just the fact that high rounds were pretty boring because of the helion salvo. Even without the helion salvo, I distinctly remember my brother and I were playing once and we were just bored by round 50 (on Voyage iirc) and decided to just intentionally down and play something else. But I do want to share probably my biggest hot take regarding zombies and that’s that I think gobblegum ruined zombies. Between BO3’s awful mtx (especially in MP, but that’s a different story), getting them is random, and that certain gobblegums were just blatantly OP, I felt like BO3 would’ve been so much better without them. To me, zombies was always something where you start from nothing and build your way up in-game with the setup phase and then transition into either high rounds or Easter eggs depending on what you felt like doing (or maybe even doing a challenge run or two). Gobblegums to me in many ways completely subvert the progression of zombies by letting you skip the setup phase entirely in some instances (like perkaholic). And my argument against the “well just don’t play with them then” is two things: First, they spent dev time on it, and I would’ve rather that dev time have been spent elsewhere. And second, that’s the equivalent telling someone to just not ever use meta weapons or just don’t play with pack a punch or ammo mods, and no one is going to do that outside of a challenge run. If gobblegums do return to CoD 2024 zombies, I hope they’re completely overhauled in a way to make them feel more like BO2 perma perks (giving a small bonus only lasting throughout one game) and not be purchasable outside of the game. But I know that’s not going to happen because Activision wants money and they’re probably going to do things like make blatantly OP ones and add them to the paid battle pass and zombies bundles. Curious to hear your thoughts on that
@@hoagieland3716 So, Gobblegums to me were something I did hate for a while, but I have changed my mind on them just a little. I don't feel like they ruin progression because they are limited-uses, which means even if you wanted to, you can't really use a perkaholic everygame anyways. The only reason people were able to do that in BO3 was due to the close application glitch that saved all your gobblegums. But when you look at games like IW and BO4 (which also had gobblegum-like systems), people weren't using OP stuff every-game. There's also lots of players who do "classic-only runs", which I do a lot as well. And I don't feel like I'm losing out on that much because I am still getting 5 other gobblegums as replacements to use. They just aren't as OP. I do agree that gobblegums should never replace actual in-game features (I hated how they turned PHD into a Gobblegum in BO3), but I think the existence of them isn't a problem. They just need to be limited-uses and earning them should be more direct, rather than relying on RNG. I do hate the permanent-upgrades and starting with whatever weapon you want in Cold War though. That to me ruins progression more than anything because it's not limited-use things, it's literally permanent to the player once you get it.
I will fight on this til the day I die. Black ops 3 easter egg steps are horrid. It's not depth when you're either forced to look up a guide or spend hours saving zombies and humping walls pressing the interact key because not a single step is intuitive. Cold War had an awesome mix of discovery and ease of access for hardcore and casual players As a world of warcraft player, the WoW community has already come to the consensus that the time it takes to do something doesn't make it "harder" or "better" and I feel like the zombies community still has this childish view that the longer something takes the harder and better it is. For me as a LIFETIME zombies fan and a semi casual player, I find maps like the ones in Black Ops 3 tedious and overbearing whereas some of my favorite maps are Origins, Mob of the Dead, Buried, Die Machine. All with Simple or straight forward or easy to understand EE steps. Little to no tedium. I'm not scared of those maps either, I had a lot of fun on Blood of the Dead as well, trying to complete the EE but getting crashes every single time. Blood of the Dead being one of the most notoriously tedious EEs in the entire community.
I actually agree with most of these. I do vehemently disagree with the idea that maps should have long setups. I think turning on power, opening up the map, and getting PAP should be quite easy. Maybe add a map here and there where the setup is longer, but most shouldn’t be that hard. I just feel like those are core zombies features that should be available within the first 10 rounds.
Keep in mind, when I say “long” I don’t mean like hours long lol (not that I’d mind that though cuz if it’s fun then I wouldn’t mind it) Maybe like 20-30 minutes for PaP, upgraded wonder weapons, etc. I honestly don’t think there’s ever been a map where the setup is too long. But the map needs plenty of things to do on it so it doesn’t just became running around in circles shooting zombies too quickly.
@@randompillow5146 I never understood the SOE one tbh. It usually takes me like 10 minutes for PaP and then the Apothican servant is naturally earned through the rounds. You have to wait for it but also you’re not really doing anything specific for it. The sword upgrade process is certainly not part of the core setup. That’s more related to the Easter egg. Also, I think the SOE PaP quest is fun so even if it was a bit long, I won’t ever get bored of going the rituals. Origins is also one that’s pretty fast for PaP, just unlocking the map itself takes longer cuz of expensive doors. But idk, I personally like that.
The problem of "difficulty" in WW2 is very superficial. There is no Jug, go back and play BO3 and 2 without Jug. I actually quite enjoy WW2, but people's issues with it are legitimate. IW can be great, but it's pretty obvious that the game was built around BO3's engine... Which was balanced around a shield, and IW doesn't have a shield. Instant downs are quite frequent on that game, regardless of skill. Let alone the fact that Spaceland is leagues and bounds better than the rest of the content on offer. The variants are a disgusting grind also, by the way. Vanguard should never be defended. MW3 is worse sure. That doesn't excuse the garbage that is Vanguard.
You can really see the IW hate bandwagoners in these comments. Can really see who never played more than spaceland and the first week of rave. My hot take about IW, Beast from Beyond is not anywhere near as bad as everyone says, and is actually a passable map, with the best Easter Egg boss fight ever to supplement it. We need the continuation to the story.
It depends tbh. Balance is important because otherwise there's no weapon variety (look at BO4 with the hellion salvo) but I'd rather they buff the zombies instead of nerfing our weapons. Or buff other guns.
My ultimate hot take that will absolutely piss everyone off. BO3 only has two really great maps. SOE, and DE. Gorod, Rev, and Zetsubou can get boned to the dark aether
Self-imposed limits never actually work unless the player is rewarded for it. Why would anyone every choose to use less perks? Now maybe if they had a separate harder mode where you could only buy 4-5 perks (but could earn more through quests) and that mode gave more XP or something, then it would actually work as a self-imposed limit.
bring back old point system and then have the perk upgrades in game and just be money oriented upgrade system. i’d prefer the perk upgrade be in game but maybe just have the 3 tiered some as cold war pap style just maybe not as expensive
I agree with a lot of what you said but I kind of disagree about cold war: I honestly loved Cold War zombies. I get that it is too easy (though there is the rampage inducer), the story is lame, little personality, and feels like multiplayer, but the core gameplay is just super fun. There is more to upgrade (weapon rarity, armor, pap) and though some feel generic, i personally don't understand why you think the maps aren't good. Firebase and forsaken are mid (but the crystalaxe is goated), and I get Die Machine is a bit bare-bones, but even as someone who has always preferred the easter egg side of zombies (always thought just camping in the teleporter on kino till you die was kind of boring after the first few times), it felt refreshing as it let me embrace the new gameplay a lot better. Also I will not allow the dissing of Mauer. Idk what any one says, it is one of my all time favorite maps. Also what you said about CW being too simplified, while I don't disagree and it is a problem, from what I gather I think most of the community got burnt out by the complexity in bo4 (i don't 100% know that as I didn't play bo4 and wasn't paying attention to what was happening) and zombies needed to take a step back to take a step forward. I don't like the direction the devs have taken that step forward, but I feel much of that is also due to unfavorable schedules for the devs (i doubt they wanted to make Vanguard and MW3 zombies). Like I said i could be wrong on this one so someone lmk if I am or not. Tbh, most of your criticism is fair and the game is flawed, but there still is a lot to like about cold war zombies. Sry I wrote a college essay. Also I think in game would be better but have it be like a small challenge/quest to upgrade it instead of just a more expensive stat boost.
Call of Duty World at War devs named the mode "Nazi zombies" and the developers of that game clearly stated that it was a bonus mode, A BONUS MODE, for completing the campaign nothing more nothing less...smh yall forget or are to young to know and never played the original zombies mode that the original name was NAZI zombies based on german Nazi soldiers from world war 2, a bonus mode and was built from that. Also what you said in this video kinda leads me to think you may not have played those first bonus maps when they dropped because the amount of hype and anticipation/excitement for the next DLC map pack to drop for w@w back in 2008 is not even in the same realm of the zombies add on's/new battle pass seasons they have today. The game was ahead of the curve for its time period and they realized quick & capitalized, bringing the same enjoyment W@W brought a year and a half later with BO1 which brought another awesome experience that's not really comparable to these newer cod zombies all things considered, for example, the graphics or simply the loyalty/fan base zombies has built, it was completely different during that time. The very first map was never meant for replay ability, it was never meant for literally anything, Nacht der Untoten was apart of the campaign and the multiplayer in that game. It was like an arcade easter egg that preceded one of the greatest story modes of the 21st century. Let me reiterate tho, the mode was called NAZI Zombies and i wish they kept that name and honestly it should have never went as far as having load outs and bs in the mode, they over did it imo as the years have shown. W@W BO1 & BO2 version will always be considered the best if you ask a Call of duty player who played COD when online cod pvp gaming first ever became a thing & it's because of (memories sake) and modern developers will never be able to replicate that no matter what they come out with year after year. That is of course if you've never played the original versions like little timmy who wasn't old enough yet. How can you even compare the new to the old it's like comparing a vintage muscle car to a tesla. It ain't the same.
(Long Comment) I have to disagree with some of your points on difficulty in Zombies. Yes, some cool abilties/powerups should be locked behind some more obscure tasks (like the cool melee attack in Origins), but you mention how people should be able to figure it out on their own as well. Yet, I imagine for about the majority of players, and I mean like over 90%, who in that group has EVER figured out an entire easter egg on their own? Like, let's be realistic, for most of Zombies history, there has never been an easter egg that a normal person could feasibly understand in-game alone. Sure, maybe someone could figure out easier ones like The Giant/Der Riese, but is any normal player, dedicated or purely casual, going to figure out Shadows of Evil entirely on their own? Are they going to learn Origins on their own? It's heavy copium to assume so, and these are beloved maps, not considered trash. It is certifiably insane to think any average player could figure it out to the end, much less the crappier maps throughout them all. For example, the path to unlocking Pack a Punch in SOE isn't difficult, but after that? You would have to search up most of it, how are people supposed to know it requires four players? How are people supposed to know to look for symbols in the buildings while on the tram? How are people supposed to know how many symbols to watch out for? Etc., etc. Easter Eggs as a whole are NOT meant for casual or average players, and that's fine, but call it what it is. They ARE inaccessible to normal players. If you have to go to UA-cam to do an Easter Egg, you already are more dedicated than the average. Some may say using outside help isn't an issue, but it is. People hated Cold War for pointing you in the right direction, but I really appreciated it. I don't want to look up another damn Mr. Roftwaffles guide just to complete my objective. And I'm not some new age Zombies player either, I started on BO1, not Cold War but I am not a hardcore player. We have lives, we have other things to worry about, I think it's Ignorant (respectfully bro) to say, "You just have bad memory." We play other games, some people have families to take care of, others work some pretty intense jobs (mentally or physically), we don't all want or have the time to look up a guide every time we want to do stuff in a map. After I did the Easter Eggs for Zetsobou, I never played it again. It was a pain in the ass to do it all and it made me dislike the map. Same for Der Eisendrache. Hell, even if you use the argument that, "Well, the characters in game sometimes will say something which tells you what to do," which is true in some maps, but what if you miss the voice line over the constant gunfire? It isn't gonna play again, so tough titties, I guess. I know you mentioned BS ones like the bird locations in Blood of the Dead, but it's so much deeper than that. Like you said in terms of alternate modes, we should just have a version of the map to tell you what to do (or at LEAST give decent hints), and an expert version where you get no assistance. I mean, we have literal ZOMBIES youtubers who STILL need to look up a guide on certain steps, and those guys are as hardcore as you can feasibly get without being some speed runner. If THEY still can't remember everything or figure it out, why would you expect anyone else to do so? This is a disconnect I feel the hardcore player base has because they forget what it's like to just want to play the damn game without having to figure out thirty puzzles and secrets just to get a cutscene and some perks. And this isn't some Cuphead/Dark Souls situation where it is purely a skill issue on the player's part, normal players legitimately can not do it on their own which is bad. Imagine this argument for any other game! What if in Mario games, you needed a guide to beat it? Hell, people talk about the Water Temples in Zelda games being frustrating DECADES after the fact because so many got lost and needed guides to navigate them, and in those cases, it's a NEGATIVE. Same applies here. Outside help should not be necessary for the main content of the maps, but it is okay for smaller secrets (like the golden helmet in Origins or the plunger in Der Eisendrache).
That was exactly my point though. I said they SHOULD be solvable in-game. That doesn't mean everyone will 100% be able to do it though. There will definitely be some people who can't figure it out and will need a guide, but as long as it's possible, then I don't see the problem. I'm also not talking about Main Easter Eggs. Was referring to other Side Easter Egg Quests that give you certain rewards (at least specifically for what you are talking about here), of course most Easter Eggs throughout Zombies history have been very difficult to solve without using a guide. But that is not the case for PaP quests and most Wonder Weapon quests (most maps just put them in the box anyways, depends on the map). Also, not saying maps SHOULD be the way they are with needing external sources for some steps, but casuals have access to Google like the rest of us. It takes like 1 minute to look up an Origins Cheat Sheet for example. I don't necessarily think it ruins these Easter Eggs, but yes, ideally, and EE should be solvable without a guide, but it should still be really hard to solve and complex, just within reason and more logical. The symbols on SOE are actually not that hard to figure out. You see the symbols in beast mode when you are in the underground area and they stick out quite a bit when using the tram. Again though, definitely will be tricky and you probably won't figure it out right away, but it's possible. Not the best designed quest, obviously. It's a very nuanced conversation I'd say. You mention Cold War making things easier, which they did, but do people not still look up guides for that? Majority of people were not solving Cold War Easter Eggs without a guide. They just made them a lot shorter and easier so obviously more people were gonna be able to beat them. I have a whole separate video talking about Easter Eggs here ua-cam.com/video/xA9qV56iwXg/v-deo.html , perhaps watch this for a more in-depth discussion about it. I am not being "ignorant", I just don't think dumbing down the Easter Eggs (something that was always meant to be a more hardcore thing) is the solution to get casuals into the story at all. There's better ways to go about it (as discussed in the video I sent). I'm not saying those who can't do Easter Eggs must be bad. Obviously some people just don't have the time for it, but that goes for literally any game in existence. Am I gonna yell at Rockstar for making Red Dead Redemption II a game that takes over 50 hours to beat??? No, of course not. I'm aware it's a long game and I'm fine with that. Easter Eggs are not something you have to dedicate 8+ hours straight to figure out lol. You can do little by little and slowly get better at them. To me, that's what is fun about them. Trying them out every now and then and slowly getting better at it which eventually could lead to you actually beating it. Beating it on the first try takes away the challenge in my opinion. You are obviously just not an Easter Egg person, and that's okay. I do think they should have alternative options for you (they sort of already do in some cases, just not everywhere). The Final Reich did a good job with this in having a casual/hardcore EE. But dumbing down the WHOLE Easter Egg just so everyone can do it just isn't the solution to me (which funny thing, still less than 5% of Cold War owners even beat the Cold War Easter Eggs, so most people are never going to do them no matter how easy they are, which is okay)
Bo4 for sure is the most underrated game in the franchise. Easy top 3 zombies game. For me its n1. I feel like 99% of the haters come from ppl who are blindly accepting yters opinions... zombie yt creators definetely killed this amazing game. Biggest shame of the series.. if bk4 was as popular as bo3 they probably never wouldve gone down that horrible casual route were on rn
My controversial take I don’t love Black Ops 3 Zombies. The Good Black Ops 1 and 2 maps are peak for me. I started to lose interest in 3, partially because I hated the gobblegum system, and 4 completely lost me. Controversial, but I enjoyed Cold War zombies quite a bit too. Although it was way too easy
Most people I saw on Twitter were insanely positive towards it for the first month, now I don't see anyone talking about it and when they do they say they are bored
Vanguard is perfectly rated. Its ass. The worst zombies ever. I PLAYED IT MYSELF there is nothing to do. No fun. Nothing. Just gray and green. I literally had fun the first game and then immediately realized wtf is this shit
I'd probably agree it's the worst zombies ever, or 2nd worst (AW Zombies is pretty bad) but I still don't think it's as awful as people say, hence why I'm calling it underrated. The round-based maps are fine, nothing crazy
I’m sure rave in the redwoods is good it’s a shame IW is the most buggy cod ever and it glitched and wouldn’t let me download the map no matter what I did.
Hot take: Tag Der Toten gets hated way too much, it has a great layout, I like the wunderwaffle sniper, I like how the electric zombies shock the zombies when you kill them in water, there is no annoying boss zombie, but I don’t like the ending
I think it's a pretty fun map. I'm not a big fan of the Easter Egg gameplay-wise though. All of just running around the map and waiting for dialogue quotes to end.
Bro 10 minutes in and your cookin like with the release of vanguard - MW3 I’ve just been looking for zombies to play so I started IW and im really sad that it’s like at the bottom of everybody’s list because of the launch and how everyone hated it but with the shitty zombie modes we’ve been getting I think people are starting to appreciate IW a lot more
It's sad because if people appreciated it more back then, we'd probably still be getting zombies like that today. Lee Ross even said he had plans for more content like IW Zombies but Activison/Infinity Ward said no.
@@XpertfusionBiggest problem with Infinte warfare zombies set from the bad maps was the engine not jellying to well with zombies. You would get stuck on everything including zombies and it just didn’t fully work all the time. Put it on the bo3 engine and it would off been much better
completely disagree, zombies should be as scary and simple as possible. It should focus on survival and easter eggs should be easter eggs not something everyone has to do and make them really hard to find.
Ya ima definitely disagree with what zombies was originally designed for zombies WAS CREATED too see how long you could survive the horde as a fellow waw og complexity of setup in zombies in my opinion isn’t necessarily good and just me personally Easter eggs aren’t really what I care about throw me in give me guns n let me mow down hordes zombies was originally a layed back casual mode
I think Shaolin carries my appreciation for IW. I enjoyed Rave (Spaceland not so much), but once I started Shaolin I truly felt like that I was playing something special.
Instead of a perk limit, what if we just have some new innovative map specific perks? 5 perks isn't a bad limit but I feel that most people will think going back to a 5 limit will be a big downgrade or step in the wrong direction. If there was map specific perks through completing quests, I think that would give the maps more character while giving you the player more to set up for each match.
The core Zombies gameplay formula without Easter Eggs/Side Quests would get stale for anyone if they played very often. Most people who don't like doing anything except normal survival on survival maps usually don't play a lot (some exceptions with those who love high rounding of course)
I find myself agreeing with so much of what you say here. Especially about IW zombies. It's my second favourite zombies mode of all time. Though I'd say Rave is my favourite map.
@@Xpertfusion so far I’m only in the games/maps but it’s literally everything other than your MW3 take and infinite warfare take but saying It’s top 2 is crazy
@@Xpertfusion yeah but your opinons just make no sense like how are you going to call Bo1 overrated and call a piece of trash like vanguard That whole map/ game section was a Huge L the rest of the video I mostly agree with tho
@@BetarayBillLover again, opinions are meant to be different. Nothing of what you said doesn’t make sense, it’s just not the same opinion as you. Also, I never said Vanguard is better than BO1. I just simply think BO1 isn’t as incredible as people say, and I don’t think Vanguard is a bad as people say. But I’d still prefer BO1 zombies over Vanguard.
L Opinions. Vanguard and Cold War are completely different, let’s stop forgetting that cold war was made during a pandemic in 10 months. BO4 is terrible, perk system, spawning it with specialist weapons, Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Literally Cold War improved, better perk system, crafting, better pack system, Armor. And if you don’t like my comment cry about it.
Cold War was made in 18 months, but regardless, that doesn't mean I can't complain about it if problems still exist. The reason for those problems existing is irrelevant to the point of the criticism. I compared CW to VG because the actual mechanics ARE very similar (crafting stations, armor, the HUD, point system, little QoL changes that CW made, SAME loadout system, field upgrades, etc.) The only big differences with the mechanics were the perk system and the rarities worked a bit differently but the idea was still there.
Revisionism is one of the most overused terms in history at this point. Most of these games I have always loved even back then. But also, changing opinions overtime is a valid thing and sometimes makes sense
OK if your being honest I'll be honest. Mob of the dead is overhyped because of the shit maps that came before it, it's mid at best, origins is slow and boring, buried looks cool otherwise it's mid. Bo3 is over-rated to high hell. Bo4 has two good maps nine and classified all the others are atrocities. Kino is not overrated people have been shiting on it for a long time. Voyage of despair is not underrated it's one of the worst maps ever. And how is waw overrated
As I said a few seconds after that, it's totally fine if you only care about the survival aspect. My point was that Zombies has expanded FAR from being just a survival mode. Easter Eggs and Side Quests have become a major part of the maps ever since BO2, and for myself, that's the aspect I care about more.
I also dislike how they overwork Treyarch. Just let Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer make their own zombie mode. At the end of the day if you strech Treyarch too thin that all of the games they work on will suffer because they cant focus on one project.
The reason why zombies is even fun in the first place is because A Treyarch put heart and soul into the mode while also making fantastic campaigns and Multiplayer, and they had funding and a good story. Until Activision decided to go for cheap money grabs with BlackOut, Zombies was fucking amazing. Giving Treyarch time and money to give us a good zombies mode, story and expierence, they would make even MORE money.
I agree treyarch is overworked, but the worst black ops zombies is better than any other zombies made
22:00 The problem with Complexity is having to find 5 items and do 4 rituals just to get a basic feature. Spaceland did this really well, Perks and Pack a Punch are very easy to get and the complexity is for higher tier items
But how long does that realistically take on SOE? Maybe 10 minutes? I don't think that's too long to get PaP. As long as the process is fun (which I think the rituals and using beast mode is VERY fun) then it's all good. I don't even think it's that complex, the game shows you exactly what to do with the symbols on the items you are supposed to shock or grapple.
@@Xpertfusion yeah i don't think it's fun having to memorize 5 part locations and routes. Maybe once, but doing it EVERY SINGLE TIME is extremely annoying. Also Rituals themselves aren't anything special, you kinda just run around for 15 seconds and then kill a margwa.
And think about it, that's 10 minutes dedicated to a boring setup phase, in Spaceland your speed is dictated by your ability to gain points, you never have to go out of your way to get essential features, progression comes naturally instead of bringing your fun to a screeching halt to do boring sidequests.
@@rabituin1474 are those 5 things hard to memorize though? It became muscle memory for me after like 3 times playing the map. Also, they literally highlight the parts while in beast mode, kind of hard to miss.
I personally think it’s a fun process. There isn’t many maps where I think the setup is boring (unless it’s something like Tranzit or a map that doesn’t have any real “setup”)
I just don’t see these setups as annoying. I guess that’s why I’m calling it an unpopular opinion. I think it’s fun and engaging. A map just being about getting points and that’s it is less interesting to me. Even Spaceland has tons of other little setup related things to do. Most of which are optional of course but still. Maps need it.
@@Xpertfusion it's not about difficulty
@@rabituin1474 well idk, if you mention you don’t wanna memorize locations, it sounds like a difficulty-related thing. Cuz you really don’t have to “memorize” them if you played the map more than a few times cuz it usually becomes muscle memory. And like I said, they glow pretty obviously, so again, you don’t have to memorize them
I always liked that analogy you gave with round based where taking it out is like if they took out 6v6 for a year in mp. It's just what zombies should be and the open world stuff is a good accesory
My favorite thing about this video is that it highlights how many different opinions there are, and none of them are wrong. IW Zombies is a great example. So many different opinions. There are those who hate it, those who love it, those who are indifferent.
I do like, and agree with, the observation that many people evaluate maps based on how good they are at them. I've gone from hating a map to loving it because I got to know it better. As I got better, it grew on me. Witnessing this change makes me realize this is almost certainly happening to others.
I also want to second the idea that zombies should be a part of every CoD release, and each should be developed by the individual studio handling that particular game. Yes, we'll get some duds be we may also potentially get a new interpretation of the mode that is an absolute masterpiece.
Anyway, cheers!
Thanks!! And yes, I've seen it happen so often where someone is doing an easter egg for the first time and they keep going down and all the while constantly complaining about how awful the map is, but then they end up actually beating it in the end and they end up saying "that wasn't too bad actually" lol. Not that it always happens, but I feel like people need to recognize when its bad game design or just them not fully understanding the map yet.
my only issue with cod zombies is that every time i look at a guide i always think to myself "how was i supposed to figure that out".
I agree with the mwz point. Its a soulless product. Its fun to dick around at first but the more I played it, the more I got pissed off by it.
Its clear that treyarch want to do much more but they’re shackled by activision.
No interesting playable characters, no environmental storytelling, no personality, no charm, BS mechanics, BS cooldowns, no rounds, no side modes, very little emergent gameplay, no solo, no split screen, no offline, a repetitive grind, NO LONGEVITY TO THE MODE
No matter what updates they do to mwz, it wont fix the core issues, or hide the fact that its built off of DMZs corpse…
yup, couldnt have said it better
Exactly! I’d be shocked if Treyarch actually came up with the idea for the mode themselves. It seems more like something Activison wanted them to do as an “extension” to DMZ.
@@Xpertfusion FR.
My heart goes out to all of the devs and studios that are under activisions boot.
Raven is getting absolutely shafted. They cant make their own ip games, and have been stuck in warzone support limbo for forever now.
Treyarch are forced to shoehorn zombies every year now like you said in your videos, no doubt pulling away resources and manpower from what they actually want to do. Plus they have to churn out new games AND support warzone & ranked modes in the current cod, all under a 2 year dev cycle??
Sledgehammer aren’t allowed to make their own cod games. Advanced warfare 2 was shut down, and their other creative ideas were shut down too. And now they’ve been forced to fix infinity wards mistakes and try to salvage the multiplayer (which theyve been doing a great job at imo)
i absolutely adore hearing someone praise IW and WWII zombies!. not perfect, but super refreshing and aging really good for 3/4 of the content basically. i still struggle to accept that Spaceland is a real CALL OF DUTY ZOMBIES map??? and I hope to see this franchise trying something ballsy like this again
47 minutes of facts.
The thing about MWZ and CW is that they're so brainless and empty. Nothing your characters do in the map feel like u do anything relating to the story and the atmosphere is severly lacking. The thing with traditional zombies is that no matter if ur just shooting zombies, doing easter eggs, or chilling with friends - The Map and atmosphere makes u think "oh there's something going on here, maybe I should look more into it". If you knew about the story/lore, then you felt like you and ur characters were progressing and you "actually felt like u were doing something".
If they can replicate that feeling, then Yes.. I would do the same Easter Egg over and over again. And PLEASE for the love of god make it difficult. I enjoyed BO3 and to an extent the BO4 EE's purely because you'd fail, re-do them, learn how to do it better, and succeed in the end.
EXACTLY
The last part of the video i absolutely agree with. I’ve allways been a very big supporter of non treyarch zombies. But alot of the community and youtubers just have this mindset of “only treyarch good non treyarch bad” having each studio have their own zombie team would be hella ideal. every year just have new takes and more content for zombies. There would be no lose in the situation. Such as you talking about people asking “how would atlantis fit in the story” it wouldn’t really need to fit the main story in another studios own zombies
WWll for me nailed it on head for a complex game that still allows casuals to figure stuff out. Especially since you have the Notebook that straight up tells you how many steps you have left with a specific part of the egg. I don’t expect a cause to find the Morse code step in shadowed throne but they definitely can find the pieces to the Ripsaw and Tesla gun.
6:10 those challenges feel like the daily challenges we used to get for liquid divinuim
Forreal lmaoo
28:08 I don't like long setup processes because if I die I really don't feel like going back to setup from square 1. It's why I like de more than orgins. Getting an upgraded bow is way faster than an upgraded staff.
But for me, doing those upgrade processes IS fun and always will be fun (assuming it’s a good map like Origins or DE). I’d rather that then have everything too quickly and then off to having nothing else to do on the map.
Also, I guess it depends on what we consider “setup”. Cuz that depends on what you wanna do. You technically don’t even need the wonder weapons on those maps if you’re just playing for fun.
Cw zombies was made in 1 year and in the year 2020 where you had to work at home so i don't blame them for not having in depth maps.
Plus they got some of their team taken off the project to work on vanguard
Plus Jason Bundle was fired from treyarch. They did good for what they had
Its a miracle that cw turned out as good as it did. Whether or not you like Cw, you gotta respect it for what it did.
Vanguard also suffered from poor mismanagement, all of this sucks so bad for the devs and artists
Yeah but we’ve had two Treyarch zombies games since then and they also don’t have much depth either.
@@randompillow5146 agreed
Treyarch need to redeem zombies this year !
Die Maschine isn't overrated, it's just the only enjoyable Cold War map
Origins is overrated. The staffs, fists, and such are very tedious. Not fun to train on too many spawn locations. Still great but I’d say it’s top 10. DE and SoE do the fetch quest much better.
I think the main story quests need to be simple. But having plenty of other secrets that span in difficulty and complexity is also necessary
Round based zombies should always be their main priority and if they wanna add another outbreak mode make it not as important as the round based
Exactly.
I feel like BO4s perk system would be perfect if they added 2 more slots and at 2 perks you get jug and 4 you get speed and at 6 you get double tap that kind of thing.
Also they should bring back chaos
Firstly I recently bought and played the DLC maps for Black Ops IV, mind you I knew nothing about the DLC prior except for Classifed being a remaster of Five.
I also find Alpha Omega to be a diamond in the rough, not the best experience, but it pays homage to Nuketown.
Underrated zombies experience in general :3
Secondly I also highly greenlight the complexity take, as well as questing.
For perspective im no where near at being amongst the best of zombie players, but what really keeps me playing is the immense world of the maps, and different paths of play.
While having a pretty fair amount of runs die in the single digits, adapting a route to set up shop for figuring out the map and venturing out in the later rounds conspensated for all of that piss poor play.
I didn't know much about Origins, Five, or Blood Of The Dead, but eventually acquiring hells retriever, hearing won't back down, and getting a staff all for the first time felt rewarding.
I didn't even know about the Dead Of The Night room until this very video :3.
There's just always something to learn or figure out.
I also hope that round based zombies stay. :3.
Other then that, awesome video.
Thanks! And I agree with all your points, having a bunch of quests that are complex only adds to the experience for all players. There's definitely some improvements the devs could make but at the very least they should be complex.
@Xpertfusion Hey, you're welcome! Also, yeah, I can say for certain it's added to my experience :3. Oh, for sure, and I think you highlighted an improvement. Let the game tell the player hints of what to do generally, but let the player figure out how to do it themselves, let it be complex, though.
Also, I have no idea why they did away with how BOIV handled custom games. I feel like mutations helped introduce players to zombies without compromising the ideal experience.
I agree with 26:58 so much.
I love straight up survival and wish we had some maps with a survival version with PaP and perks readily available, while the main map remains mysterious for hardcore fans. Basically I'd love nuketown and farm with the beauty of SoE, ZnS, and all the visually stunning maps out there.
My hottest take is bo3 is the most overrated zombies we have had. All the guns are boring and look and sound like toys and only have 3 good maps being soe zns and rev. The story got so weird and just lost what it once had. Use to be nazis trying to won the war and messin with a space element and all hell breaking out. Also de is just a origins clone and only added a boss fight and while epic its still as little inovation as kino. Also chronicals was awsome but it really got boring fast and the bo1 and waw maps are way better on their og games. And the gum is the same as the elixers and people cant decide if thwy like or hate them. Also even without aats and gum its mind boggling easy
40:39 had me rolling bro💀
I disagree with a decent amount of your points but I absolutely loved your explanations - helped put things in perspective. Subbed
Thanks!! Great to see someone who can respect other opinions!
Alpha Omega deserved the hate because in 2019, when most of the maps were originals, we got a recycled trash zone from the Blackout zone, but with zombies, on a 50$ dollar Season Pass, so it kinda felt like a scam, because at first they stated in the Season Pass how every map would be "a new map" and then they changed that with "new experiences" so, yeah, i kinda see the point of the hate.
Preach! Love the passion, I couldn't agree more with 90% of what you said but I respect 100% of your takes. Keep fighting the good fight....
Thanks!
Besides Zombies in Spaceland, I gave infinite warfare a lot of crap. I never played it but only hear bad things about the DLC maps. My brother and I bought it on sale and did all the easter eggs including Mephistopheles, most of the ghost and skull machines, and a few side easter eggs for emblems. It was one of the best zombies experiences I've had. It has a lot of charm and unique esthetics. Attack of the Radio Active Thing and Shaolin Shuffle are goated maps.
Very underrated UA-camr, you deserve a lot more subscribers.
Thank you!
I heavily agree with the complexity aspect. Makes it so much more fun. Also shaolin shuffle is a top 5 map of all time
I've been enjoying Shaolin Shuffle more and more over the years
Pretty much all my thoughts about zombies summed up in a video, great job man 👏
Thanks!
Been playing Cod Zombies since B01 and I love all zombie maps include Vanguard. I appreciate the amount of time the developers put in to each Zombie map.
I agree that it’s better to have in-game quests to get more than 4 perks, but I think Cold War’s upgrade system was perfect and really gave something to grind for. One of my favorite parts of the whole game.
Finally someone says that bo1 is overrated as hell
The vangaurd hot take is wrong. It’s terrible. There’s no room for debate.
Agreed 😊
That seems like a fun way to have a conversation 🙂
It’s not that bad tho only the first two maps are bad not the last two but you probably just jump on the hate wagon and don’t give anything a try
What's so much worse about shi no numa reborn and the archon compared to cold war's maps? I don't think they are great maps by any means, but like they aren't really awful either. They have the same issues as cold war's maps in my opinion.
Literally nothing cold war is as bad as vanguard @@Xpertfusion
Love your optimism towards things that are deemed by the community as “bad”!! I very much respect these kinds of opinions!
The problem with the zombies community is because they are so biased towards the older zombie games like bo2 zombies and because they are so biased towards origins and buried and what not because those maps are “amazing” they want every other cod zombies mode to be identical otherwise it’s garbage personally I don’t mind the open world thing but the stuff that people complain about towards the open world mode you can same the something about round based all you do is play round after round after round and it gets so boring and time consuming for nothing atleast when you finish a open world map match you get stuff at the end unlike round based and you get jack shit
Biases do exist, but I wouldn't say anyone who wants maps more similar to their favorites is necessarily "biased", they just want maps that they love again, that's all.
I wouldn't mind the main quest structure from cold war going forward, just have really hard boss fights. That's exactly what DE did and people loved it, and modern zombies needs more of a challenge. Tough boss fights would fix that for me.
My favorite part of zombies is the complexity and it’s the reason I have so much time put into it. However it needs to be fun like in shadows of evil. Not the tediousness of zetsubo
Tbh my favorite maps tend to be based on how creative/distinct/unique they are. Moon is frustrating as hell but I love it just cause its gimmicks, and I really like Alcatraz and kino for the setting
The reason they made Easter eggs simple in Cold War is because less than 2% of all players ever did them because they were so complicated and you had to use a guide 99% of the time
You might be shocked to learn that majority of people still used guides even in Cold War's Easter Eggs lol. I'm aware they made them easier for that reason, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing especially since people use guides still anyways. Also, the 2% statistic is very misleading because it's 2% of anyone who's ever purchased the games (including players who don't even touch Zombies at all), so it's not really fair to include Campaign and MP players in the discussion I feel like. Also, past Easter Eggs were sometimes locked behind DLC and obviously people are less likely to do EEs for DLC maps compared to Launch maps due to less people having the DLC maps.
CW's EE completion for Die Maschine was like a 4.5% or something, so not even like a crazy high increase compared to other maps. Idk if that's worth it for them to kill the hardcore experience. They could certainly find ways to make it still fun, complicated, and challenging for hardcore fans while having easier options available (like what The Final Reich did)
Great video! Totally agree that modern zombies is too grounded, lacks soul and character. Especially since the trial system is identical in every Cold War map. Also I personally like exo zombies cause I saw it as its own zombie experience rather then comparing it to treyarchs zombies
38:56 I know this is a month old at this point, but the fact that you made an entire video about HUD being important and how having Warzone HUD is immersion breaking and doesn’t fit the theme of zombies (which I do agree with), and yet you’re completely fine with “just watch a 10-15 minute video on guides for playing the map” is baffling to me. I would consider myself a more relatively hardcore player (not as much as many UA-camrs) and being essentially forced to look up guides for how to play a map instead of having things in-game naturally progress or have intuitive areas is incredibly tedious and immersion breaking. It’s the same sort of feeling as pulling up a map of part locations and mindlessly checking each one. It just feels like a chore. It doesn’t matter if I’d only have to look up a guide maybe once or twice and then play the map a handful of times to get it. The fact that I even have to look up a guide at all is the issue. Now, I can understand needing to look up Easter egg guides because they are designed to be way more in-depth and have unintuitive steps. But I shouldn’t need to look up a guide to know how to do simple things like turn on power, pack a punch, or get perks. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not asking for Cold War levels of handholding where there’s a minimap and everything is labeled with waypoint markers. Just for the act of setting up to get all your perks and pack a punch to be straightforward, and leave the more complicated ideas for Easter eggs and secrets
Here's the thing though... 99% of maps do NOT require a guide for simple things like PaP, Perks, and Power. These things are actually quite easy to solve on your own on any map (maybe 1-2 exceptions like the coin under Juggernog on Shaolin is dumb lol). When people complain those things are unsolvable, they usually only attempt to figure it out for like an hour and then give up lol. I'd love to hear specific examples of simple things on maps that you felt like were "impossible to solve without a guide" because I just can't agree there (other than maybe 1-2 exceptions)
Same with part locations. Unless it's a very hard to find object with no interact prompt (which only ever really happens in Easter Eggs). But shield parts or pretty much any other part like that is VERY obvious to find and once you learn the general area, you should really never forget it.
In that point of the video, I was specifically talking about Easter Eggs. I also mention that I do think they could do a much better job of giving hints (without making them stupidly easy), but my point there was that it doesn't ruin my experience at all by having to look up a guide for a few steps. Maybe check out the "Decline in Quality" Easter Egg video I recently made because I talk a lot about this. For majority of maps, I don't have to keep checking a guide multiple times. Usually just learning it once is all I need, some maps I do use a cheat sheet (like Origins), but that's completely separate from what's on my screen, so I don't really see it as "immersion breaking".
@@Xpertfusion The coin on Shaolin is probably the biggest example I can give, and I’ll be honest that there aren’t too many maps where setting up is an issue, but my point was that it should never be to begin with and that shouldn’t even need to be a talking point. And for me, anything that takes my eyes off the screen is immersion breaking. I’ll admit whenever I do play zombies, I’ll often look up a part locations map, and it’s still tedious every time, especially when revisiting maps or games I don’t play frequently. I would rather the parts always consistently be in exactly one location so after I find it once, I wouldn’t even need to think of looking up a map. In hindsight, I probably should’ve mentioned part locations as well in my original comment because that’s moreso the thing I take issue with and the reason I often need to pull out my phone or something and look up a map
@@hoagieland3716 But you don't have to do that; you aren't required to. You are choosing to look it up because you don't find searching around the map to be fun. That should really be your argument. But finding them for the first time, isn't really that bad. I don't think I've ever looked up part locations.
They place them very deliberately. So, you know there's 3 shield parts, you know that each part will ALWAYS be in the same general area right? That never changes. So you saying there should only be one location is kind of true, it's just maybe a few meters apart from each other in that area.
And in BO4, you could even go into custom mutations and turn on the option to "highlight all shield parts", which makes learning the location very easy in-game.
I do understand your argument, but I don't think that necessarily makes it a "requirement" to look up guides, people just sometimes choose to. And like I talk about in the video, when it comes to Easter Eggs, I don't really mind doing it, doesn't mean it's ideal though (better than having stupidly easy quests anyways). It's not immersion breaking to me because I usually only look up the guide for specific steps if I am stuck on it for a LONG time. But after doing them a bunch, it ain't too bad.
@@Xpertfusion I’ll be honest when I say I never really ever touched custom mutations at all. BO4 in general for me was just kinda meh. I didn’t love it, but I didn’t hate it either. Part of that was probably the change to the perk system, which I didn’t really like. And another part was probably just the fact that high rounds were pretty boring because of the helion salvo. Even without the helion salvo, I distinctly remember my brother and I were playing once and we were just bored by round 50 (on Voyage iirc) and decided to just intentionally down and play something else.
But I do want to share probably my biggest hot take regarding zombies and that’s that I think gobblegum ruined zombies. Between BO3’s awful mtx (especially in MP, but that’s a different story), getting them is random, and that certain gobblegums were just blatantly OP, I felt like BO3 would’ve been so much better without them. To me, zombies was always something where you start from nothing and build your way up in-game with the setup phase and then transition into either high rounds or Easter eggs depending on what you felt like doing (or maybe even doing a challenge run or two). Gobblegums to me in many ways completely subvert the progression of zombies by letting you skip the setup phase entirely in some instances (like perkaholic). And my argument against the “well just don’t play with them then” is two things: First, they spent dev time on it, and I would’ve rather that dev time have been spent elsewhere. And second, that’s the equivalent telling someone to just not ever use meta weapons or just don’t play with pack a punch or ammo mods, and no one is going to do that outside of a challenge run. If gobblegums do return to CoD 2024 zombies, I hope they’re completely overhauled in a way to make them feel more like BO2 perma perks (giving a small bonus only lasting throughout one game) and not be purchasable outside of the game. But I know that’s not going to happen because Activision wants money and they’re probably going to do things like make blatantly OP ones and add them to the paid battle pass and zombies bundles. Curious to hear your thoughts on that
@@hoagieland3716 So, Gobblegums to me were something I did hate for a while, but I have changed my mind on them just a little. I don't feel like they ruin progression because they are limited-uses, which means even if you wanted to, you can't really use a perkaholic everygame anyways. The only reason people were able to do that in BO3 was due to the close application glitch that saved all your gobblegums. But when you look at games like IW and BO4 (which also had gobblegum-like systems), people weren't using OP stuff every-game.
There's also lots of players who do "classic-only runs", which I do a lot as well. And I don't feel like I'm losing out on that much because I am still getting 5 other gobblegums as replacements to use. They just aren't as OP.
I do agree that gobblegums should never replace actual in-game features (I hated how they turned PHD into a Gobblegum in BO3), but I think the existence of them isn't a problem. They just need to be limited-uses and earning them should be more direct, rather than relying on RNG.
I do hate the permanent-upgrades and starting with whatever weapon you want in Cold War though. That to me ruins progression more than anything because it's not limited-use things, it's literally permanent to the player once you get it.
its crazy how i agree with all your opinions lmao, especially infinite warfare being underrated👍🏼
I will fight on this til the day I die.
Black ops 3 easter egg steps are horrid.
It's not depth when you're either forced to look up a guide or spend hours saving zombies and humping walls pressing the interact key because not a single step is intuitive.
Cold War had an awesome mix of discovery and ease of access for hardcore and casual players
As a world of warcraft player, the WoW community has already come to the consensus that the time it takes to do something doesn't make it "harder" or "better" and I feel like the zombies community still has this childish view that the longer something takes the harder and better it is.
For me as a LIFETIME zombies fan and a semi casual player, I find maps like the ones in Black Ops 3 tedious and overbearing whereas some of my favorite maps are Origins, Mob of the Dead, Buried, Die Machine. All with Simple or straight forward or easy to understand EE steps. Little to no tedium.
I'm not scared of those maps either, I had a lot of fun on Blood of the Dead as well, trying to complete the EE but getting crashes every single time. Blood of the Dead being one of the most notoriously tedious EEs in the entire community.
I just watched a 47 minute video about my own zombies opinion this is crazy
LOL
Great video
Thanks!!
did i just hear someone saying shi no numa and the archon have the same feeling as die maschine and mauer der toten 💀💀
In terms of the game mechanics, yes. They have very similar mechanics and very similar amount of map depth.
I agree fully
I think it’s a tragedy we never got all the bo4 maps
I actually agree with most of these. I do vehemently disagree with the idea that maps should have long setups. I think turning on power, opening up the map, and getting PAP should be quite easy. Maybe add a map here and there where the setup is longer, but most shouldn’t be that hard. I just feel like those are core zombies features that should be available within the first 10 rounds.
Keep in mind, when I say “long” I don’t mean like hours long lol (not that I’d mind that though cuz if it’s fun then I wouldn’t mind it) Maybe like 20-30 minutes for PaP, upgraded wonder weapons, etc.
I honestly don’t think there’s ever been a map where the setup is too long.
But the map needs plenty of things to do on it so it doesn’t just became running around in circles shooting zombies too quickly.
@@Xpertfusion Most maps are fine for me. Certain maps like Shadows of Evil and even Origins take too long to setup for my liking.
@@randompillow5146 I never understood the SOE one tbh. It usually takes me like 10 minutes for PaP and then the Apothican servant is naturally earned through the rounds. You have to wait for it but also you’re not really doing anything specific for it. The sword upgrade process is certainly not part of the core setup. That’s more related to the Easter egg. Also, I think the SOE PaP quest is fun so even if it was a bit long, I won’t ever get bored of going the rituals. Origins is also one that’s pretty fast for PaP, just unlocking the map itself takes longer cuz of expensive doors. But idk, I personally like that.
I agree with pretty much 90% of everything. Except I cannot speak on things I have not played including vanguard and ww2 DLCs.
The problem of "difficulty" in WW2 is very superficial. There is no Jug, go back and play BO3 and 2 without Jug. I actually quite enjoy WW2, but people's issues with it are legitimate. IW can be great, but it's pretty obvious that the game was built around BO3's engine... Which was balanced around a shield, and IW doesn't have a shield. Instant downs are quite frequent on that game, regardless of skill. Let alone the fact that Spaceland is leagues and bounds better than the rest of the content on offer. The variants are a disgusting grind also, by the way.
Vanguard should never be defended. MW3 is worse sure. That doesn't excuse the garbage that is Vanguard.
Zesty, always love some hot takes!
You can really see the IW hate bandwagoners in these comments. Can really see who never played more than spaceland and the first week of rave.
My hot take about IW, Beast from Beyond is not anywhere near as bad as everyone says, and is actually a passable map, with the best Easter Egg boss fight ever to supplement it. We need the continuation to the story.
Coldtake: I HATE WHEN DEVS NERF SHIT IN ZOMBIES, ARE THE ZOMBIES COMPLAINING TO TREYARCH ?!?!?
Tell me about it man, I have always hated that
@theraven0539 that one random patch where they nerf the Type 25 and hamr
@@dalberttran8134 yeah and the sliquifier on die rise, like mate it’s a wonder weapon it’s supposed to be great
It depends tbh. Balance is important because otherwise there's no weapon variety (look at BO4 with the hellion salvo) but I'd rather they buff the zombies instead of nerfing our weapons. Or buff other guns.
@@Xpertfusion yeah agreed, I would rather they buff other weapons of the zombies
My ultimate hot take that will absolutely piss everyone off. BO3 only has two really great maps. SOE, and DE. Gorod, Rev, and Zetsubou can get boned to the dark aether
No perk limit simply makes the game more enjoyable and it gives you the choice to self impose limits instead of dictated limits
Self-imposed limits never actually work unless the player is rewarded for it. Why would anyone every choose to use less perks? Now maybe if they had a separate harder mode where you could only buy 4-5 perks (but could earn more through quests) and that mode gave more XP or something, then it would actually work as a self-imposed limit.
bring back old point system and then have the perk upgrades in game and just be money oriented upgrade system. i’d prefer the perk upgrade be in game but maybe just have the 3 tiered some as cold war pap style just maybe not as expensive
I agree with a lot of what you said but I kind of disagree about cold war:
I honestly loved Cold War zombies. I get that it is too easy (though there is the rampage inducer), the story is lame, little personality, and feels like multiplayer, but the core gameplay is just super fun. There is more to upgrade (weapon rarity, armor, pap) and though some feel generic, i personally don't understand why you think the maps aren't good. Firebase and forsaken are mid (but the crystalaxe is goated), and I get Die Machine is a bit bare-bones, but even as someone who has always preferred the easter egg side of zombies (always thought just camping in the teleporter on kino till you die was kind of boring after the first few times), it felt refreshing as it let me embrace the new gameplay a lot better. Also I will not allow the dissing of Mauer. Idk what any one says, it is one of my all time favorite maps.
Also what you said about CW being too simplified, while I don't disagree and it is a problem, from what I gather I think most of the community got burnt out by the complexity in bo4 (i don't 100% know that as I didn't play bo4 and wasn't paying attention to what was happening) and zombies needed to take a step back to take a step forward. I don't like the direction the devs have taken that step forward, but I feel much of that is also due to unfavorable schedules for the devs (i doubt they wanted to make Vanguard and MW3 zombies). Like I said i could be wrong on this one so someone lmk if I am or not.
Tbh, most of your criticism is fair and the game is flawed, but there still is a lot to like about cold war zombies. Sry I wrote a college essay.
Also I think in game would be better but have it be like a small challenge/quest to upgrade it instead of just a more expensive stat boost.
Call of Duty World at War devs named the mode "Nazi zombies" and the developers of that game clearly stated that it was a bonus mode, A BONUS MODE, for completing the campaign nothing more nothing less...smh yall forget or are to young to know and never played the original zombies mode that the original name was NAZI zombies based on german Nazi soldiers from world war 2, a bonus mode and was built from that. Also what you said in this video kinda leads me to think you may not have played those first bonus maps when they dropped because the amount of hype and anticipation/excitement for the next DLC map pack to drop for w@w back in 2008 is not even in the same realm of the zombies add on's/new battle pass seasons they have today. The game was ahead of the curve for its time period and they realized quick & capitalized, bringing the same enjoyment W@W brought a year and a half later with BO1 which brought another awesome experience that's not really comparable to these newer cod zombies all things considered, for example, the graphics or simply the loyalty/fan base zombies has built, it was completely different during that time. The very first map was never meant for replay ability, it was never meant for literally anything, Nacht der Untoten was apart of the campaign and the multiplayer in that game. It was like an arcade easter egg that preceded one of the greatest story modes of the 21st century. Let me reiterate tho, the mode was called NAZI Zombies and i wish they kept that name and honestly it should have never went as far as having load outs and bs in the mode, they over did it imo as the years have shown. W@W BO1 & BO2 version will always be considered the best if you ask a Call of duty player who played COD when online cod pvp gaming first ever became a thing & it's because of (memories sake) and modern developers will never be able to replicate that no matter what they come out with year after year. That is of course if you've never played the original versions like little timmy who wasn't old enough yet. How can you even compare the new to the old it's like comparing a vintage muscle car to a tesla. It ain't the same.
(Long Comment) I have to disagree with some of your points on difficulty in Zombies. Yes, some cool abilties/powerups should be locked behind some more obscure tasks (like the cool melee attack in Origins), but you mention how people should be able to figure it out on their own as well. Yet, I imagine for about the majority of players, and I mean like over 90%, who in that group has EVER figured out an entire easter egg on their own? Like, let's be realistic, for most of Zombies history, there has never been an easter egg that a normal person could feasibly understand in-game alone. Sure, maybe someone could figure out easier ones like The Giant/Der Riese, but is any normal player, dedicated or purely casual, going to figure out Shadows of Evil entirely on their own? Are they going to learn Origins on their own? It's heavy copium to assume so, and these are beloved maps, not considered trash. It is certifiably insane to think any average player could figure it out to the end, much less the crappier maps throughout them all.
For example, the path to unlocking Pack a Punch in SOE isn't difficult, but after that? You would have to search up most of it, how are people supposed to know it requires four players? How are people supposed to know to look for symbols in the buildings while on the tram? How are people supposed to know how many symbols to watch out for? Etc., etc. Easter Eggs as a whole are NOT meant for casual or average players, and that's fine, but call it what it is. They ARE inaccessible to normal players. If you have to go to UA-cam to do an Easter Egg, you already are more dedicated than the average. Some may say using outside help isn't an issue, but it is. People hated Cold War for pointing you in the right direction, but I really appreciated it. I don't want to look up another damn Mr. Roftwaffles guide just to complete my objective. And I'm not some new age Zombies player either, I started on BO1, not Cold War but I am not a hardcore player. We have lives, we have other things to worry about, I think it's Ignorant (respectfully bro) to say, "You just have bad memory." We play other games, some people have families to take care of, others work some pretty intense jobs (mentally or physically), we don't all want or have the time to look up a guide every time we want to do stuff in a map. After I did the Easter Eggs for Zetsobou, I never played it again. It was a pain in the ass to do it all and it made me dislike the map. Same for Der Eisendrache.
Hell, even if you use the argument that, "Well, the characters in game sometimes will say something which tells you what to do," which is true in some maps, but what if you miss the voice line over the constant gunfire? It isn't gonna play again, so tough titties, I guess. I know you mentioned BS ones like the bird locations in Blood of the Dead, but it's so much deeper than that. Like you said in terms of alternate modes, we should just have a version of the map to tell you what to do (or at LEAST give decent hints), and an expert version where you get no assistance. I mean, we have literal ZOMBIES youtubers who STILL need to look up a guide on certain steps, and those guys are as hardcore as you can feasibly get without being some speed runner. If THEY still can't remember everything or figure it out, why would you expect anyone else to do so? This is a disconnect I feel the hardcore player base has because they forget what it's like to just want to play the damn game without having to figure out thirty puzzles and secrets just to get a cutscene and some perks. And this isn't some Cuphead/Dark Souls situation where it is purely a skill issue on the player's part, normal players legitimately can not do it on their own which is bad. Imagine this argument for any other game! What if in Mario games, you needed a guide to beat it? Hell, people talk about the Water Temples in Zelda games being frustrating DECADES after the fact because so many got lost and needed guides to navigate them, and in those cases, it's a NEGATIVE. Same applies here. Outside help should not be necessary for the main content of the maps, but it is okay for smaller secrets (like the golden helmet in Origins or the plunger in Der Eisendrache).
That was exactly my point though. I said they SHOULD be solvable in-game. That doesn't mean everyone will 100% be able to do it though. There will definitely be some people who can't figure it out and will need a guide, but as long as it's possible, then I don't see the problem. I'm also not talking about Main Easter Eggs. Was referring to other Side Easter Egg Quests that give you certain rewards (at least specifically for what you are talking about here), of course most Easter Eggs throughout Zombies history have been very difficult to solve without using a guide. But that is not the case for PaP quests and most Wonder Weapon quests (most maps just put them in the box anyways, depends on the map).
Also, not saying maps SHOULD be the way they are with needing external sources for some steps, but casuals have access to Google like the rest of us. It takes like 1 minute to look up an Origins Cheat Sheet for example. I don't necessarily think it ruins these Easter Eggs, but yes, ideally, and EE should be solvable without a guide, but it should still be really hard to solve and complex, just within reason and more logical.
The symbols on SOE are actually not that hard to figure out. You see the symbols in beast mode when you are in the underground area and they stick out quite a bit when using the tram. Again though, definitely will be tricky and you probably won't figure it out right away, but it's possible. Not the best designed quest, obviously. It's a very nuanced conversation I'd say.
You mention Cold War making things easier, which they did, but do people not still look up guides for that? Majority of people were not solving Cold War Easter Eggs without a guide. They just made them a lot shorter and easier so obviously more people were gonna be able to beat them.
I have a whole separate video talking about Easter Eggs here ua-cam.com/video/xA9qV56iwXg/v-deo.html , perhaps watch this for a more in-depth discussion about it. I am not being "ignorant", I just don't think dumbing down the Easter Eggs (something that was always meant to be a more hardcore thing) is the solution to get casuals into the story at all. There's better ways to go about it (as discussed in the video I sent).
I'm not saying those who can't do Easter Eggs must be bad. Obviously some people just don't have the time for it, but that goes for literally any game in existence. Am I gonna yell at Rockstar for making Red Dead Redemption II a game that takes over 50 hours to beat??? No, of course not. I'm aware it's a long game and I'm fine with that. Easter Eggs are not something you have to dedicate 8+ hours straight to figure out lol. You can do little by little and slowly get better at them. To me, that's what is fun about them. Trying them out every now and then and slowly getting better at it which eventually could lead to you actually beating it. Beating it on the first try takes away the challenge in my opinion.
You are obviously just not an Easter Egg person, and that's okay. I do think they should have alternative options for you (they sort of already do in some cases, just not everywhere). The Final Reich did a good job with this in having a casual/hardcore EE. But dumbing down the WHOLE Easter Egg just so everyone can do it just isn't the solution to me (which funny thing, still less than 5% of Cold War owners even beat the Cold War Easter Eggs, so most people are never going to do them no matter how easy they are, which is okay)
Yeah let’s just get my hot take outta the way, Ancient Evil is the best zombies map ever!
I respect that
Definitely in my top 5 favorites!
I agree with most of the video, this needs more views
Bo4 for sure is the most underrated game in the franchise. Easy top 3 zombies game. For me its n1. I feel like 99% of the haters come from ppl who are blindly accepting yters opinions... zombie yt creators definetely killed this amazing game. Biggest shame of the series.. if bk4 was as popular as bo3 they probably never wouldve gone down that horrible casual route were on rn
i’m pretty sure people actually underrate cole war all the time due to it having outbreak and no one appreciated it long enough.
All I see is positive things on it nowadays.
@@Xpertfusion good it should be lmao
@@tastycodlover4082 like I said, I enjoyed parts of it but overall thought it was a massive step backwards for zombies.
@@Xpertfusion ya i guess so. mw3 zombies is a little too, but it’s not bad by any means
My controversial take
I don’t love Black Ops 3 Zombies. The Good Black Ops 1 and 2 maps are peak for me. I started to lose interest in 3, partially because I hated the gobblegum system, and 4 completely lost me.
Controversial, but I enjoyed Cold War zombies quite a bit too. Although it was way too easy
I literally agreed with every single point. I think I love u
I made cheat sheets like in gta back in the day
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks the Frozen Dawn is underrated
There was a honeymoon phase for mw3 zombies?
Most people I saw on Twitter were insanely positive towards it for the first month, now I don't see anyone talking about it and when they do they say they are bored
Vanguard is perfectly rated. Its ass. The worst zombies ever. I PLAYED IT MYSELF there is nothing to do. No fun. Nothing. Just gray and green. I literally had fun the first game and then immediately realized wtf is this shit
I'd probably agree it's the worst zombies ever, or 2nd worst (AW Zombies is pretty bad) but I still don't think it's as awful as people say, hence why I'm calling it underrated. The round-based maps are fine, nothing crazy
I think black ops 2 and 3 had the best art styled maps
Agreed. Also Infinite Warfare and Black Ops 4
@@Xpertfusion yes
yo soo true ''Complexity'' love watch and lisen you! Og zombie player bo1 🧟🧟🧟🧟🧟🧟
I’m sure rave in the redwoods is good it’s a shame IW is the most buggy cod ever and it glitched and wouldn’t let me download the map no matter what I did.
Hot take: Tag Der Toten gets hated way too much, it has a great layout, I like the wunderwaffle sniper, I like how the electric zombies shock the zombies when you kill them in water, there is no annoying boss zombie, but I don’t like the ending
I think it's a pretty fun map. I'm not a big fan of the Easter Egg gameplay-wise though. All of just running around the map and waiting for dialogue quotes to end.
I don’t think someone think the new zombies era (after bo4) is good, liberty balls is the prove
mwz is the downfall of zombies, its officially joever
Bro 10 minutes in and your cookin like with the release of vanguard - MW3 I’ve just been looking for zombies to play so I started IW and im really sad that it’s like at the bottom of everybody’s list because of the launch and how everyone hated it but with the shitty zombie modes we’ve been getting I think people are starting to appreciate IW a lot more
It's sad because if people appreciated it more back then, we'd probably still be getting zombies like that today. Lee Ross even said he had plans for more content like IW Zombies but Activison/Infinity Ward said no.
@@XpertfusionBiggest problem with Infinte warfare zombies set from the bad maps was the engine not jellying to well with zombies.
You would get stuck on everything including zombies and it just didn’t fully work all the time.
Put it on the bo3 engine and it would off been much better
completely disagree, zombies should be as scary and simple as possible. It should focus on survival and easter eggs should be easter eggs not something everyone has to do and make them really hard to find.
Easter Eggs are not required to do though. They are optional.
There's no way that this guy said that ww2 zombies is better than bo1
My boy really said zombies in space land is the greatest map of all time bro... Shadows of evil and der eisendrach are infinitely better
Can we just meet in the middle and say all 3 of those maps are masterpieces??
@@Xpertfusion I can compromise with you. Zombies in space land is a unique map just like SOE and DE so I agree bro
Ya ima definitely disagree with what zombies was originally designed for zombies WAS CREATED too see how long you could survive the horde as a fellow waw og complexity of setup in zombies in my opinion isn’t necessarily good and just me personally Easter eggs aren’t really what I care about throw me in give me guns n let me mow down hordes zombies was originally a layed back casual mode
Easter eggs are always optional though. You never have to do them, even in the later games.
Vanguard isn’t mid, BO4 is mid and about how EEs should be, they should be like BO1-3. If kino isn’t that good, then, wanna play a game of kino?
Kino Is shit
You’re wrong Cold War is a masterpiece that is a perfect contrast to bo2 or bo1
I think Shaolin carries my appreciation for IW. I enjoyed Rave (Spaceland not so much), but once I started Shaolin I truly felt like that I was playing something special.
Instead of a perk limit, what if we just have some new innovative map specific perks? 5 perks isn't a bad limit but I feel that most people will think going back to a 5 limit will be a big downgrade or step in the wrong direction. If there was map specific perks through completing quests, I think that would give the maps more character while giving you the player more to set up for each match.
Pretty good takes though, especially getting zombies made each year by each studio. I miss seeing SHGs and IW zombies in contrast to Treyarch's
"It got stale once black ops 2 hit" brother do you just not like zombies?
The core Zombies gameplay formula without Easter Eggs/Side Quests would get stale for anyone if they played very often. Most people who don't like doing anything except normal survival on survival maps usually don't play a lot (some exceptions with those who love high rounding of course)
@@Xpertfusion Saying anyone implies people agree with you. That doesn't make it a hot take. Either way you're wrong.
I find myself agreeing with so much of what you say here.
Especially about IW zombies. It's my second favourite zombies mode of all time.
Though I'd say Rave is my favourite map.
Zombies in Spaceland the GOAT????? Bro what????
Yes
Dude said Vanguard was the same quality as Cold War. Biggest L
The mechanics themselves are extremely similar
Well you’re not wrong these are hot takes… might be some of the worst I’ve ever heard
Lmk which ones specifically, curious
@@Xpertfusion so far I’m only in the games/maps but it’s literally everything other than your MW3 take and infinite warfare take but saying It’s top 2 is crazy
@@BetarayBillLover opinions are meant to be different.
@@Xpertfusion yeah but your opinons just make no sense like how are you going to call Bo1 overrated and call a piece of trash like vanguard That whole map/ game section was a Huge L the rest of the video I mostly agree with tho
@@BetarayBillLover again, opinions are meant to be different. Nothing of what you said doesn’t make sense, it’s just not the same opinion as you.
Also, I never said Vanguard is better than BO1. I just simply think BO1 isn’t as incredible as people say, and I don’t think Vanguard is a bad as people say. But I’d still prefer BO1 zombies over Vanguard.
Personally i love iw zombies
L Opinions. Vanguard and Cold War are completely different, let’s stop forgetting that cold war was made during a pandemic in 10 months. BO4 is terrible, perk system, spawning it with specialist weapons, Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Literally Cold War improved, better perk system, crafting, better pack system, Armor. And if you don’t like my comment cry about it.
Literally comparing Cold War to vanguard makes no sense.
Cold War was made in 18 months, but regardless, that doesn't mean I can't complain about it if problems still exist. The reason for those problems existing is irrelevant to the point of the criticism.
I compared CW to VG because the actual mechanics ARE very similar (crafting stations, armor, the HUD, point system, little QoL changes that CW made, SAME loadout system, field upgrades, etc.)
The only big differences with the mechanics were the perk system and the rarities worked a bit differently but the idea was still there.
a lot of revisionism in the IW/WW2/bo4 section
Revisionism is one of the most overused terms in history at this point. Most of these games I have always loved even back then. But also, changing opinions overtime is a valid thing and sometimes makes sense
OK if your being honest I'll be honest. Mob of the dead is overhyped because of the shit maps that came before it, it's mid at best, origins is slow and boring, buried looks cool otherwise it's mid. Bo3 is over-rated to high hell. Bo4 has two good maps nine and classified all the others are atrocities. Kino is not overrated people have been shiting on it for a long time. Voyage of despair is not underrated it's one of the worst maps ever. And how is waw overrated
WaW is overrated in the sense that I rate it lower than most people usually do, simple as that lol. Same thing with Kino.
Almost halfway through, and i gotta say, so far, there's been two garbage takes, vanguards underrated, and that voyage is underrated
Remember. Underrated doesn't mean I think it's good
@Xpertfusion I'd say they're fairly rated, both are horrible for the most part
15:08 The entire zombies mode is built on survival, what is this guy on about???
As I said a few seconds after that, it's totally fine if you only care about the survival aspect. My point was that Zombies has expanded FAR from being just a survival mode. Easter Eggs and Side Quests have become a major part of the maps ever since BO2, and for myself, that's the aspect I care about more.
bro come on I was 12 when bo3 released and I was playing its zombies map and wasn't having any problems with pap and then EEs like come on
i hate moon
Most of these aren’t really hot text
Which ones in particular? I guess it depends on what you think people feel about certain things cuz we likely follow different people online.
Vanguard is SEVERELY overHATED like I fr enjoyed shi no Numa reborn a lot! It's the definitive version of the map imo
As soon as he said world at war I left.
Bc that’s the only game you have