If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Terry Gross is the host and co-executive producer of Fresh Air, an interview format radio show produced by WHYY-FM in Philadelphia and distributed throughout the United States by National Public Radio (NPR). She interviews Bart on April 7th, 2014 and prepares the discussion to reflect on Bart's book "How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee." The discussion addresses topics such as the major difference between the first three gospels - Matthew, Mark and Luke - and the last gospel, John. On how Roman emperors were called "God." On the emergence of the Trinity. On the difference between history and the past and on the empty tomb and the resurrection, just to name a few.
Program discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/...
Transcript of this program: www.npr.org/tem...
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. She holds a master's degree in communications from the University at Buffalo, The State University of New York.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Fresh Air. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Fresh Air is strictly prohibited.
Bart Erman studied bible for 30 years before he left Christianity. Many ignorant commenter who criticize Bart Erman is not even 30 years old.
As Mark Twain said of the Bible, "It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies."
Gotta love that Mark Twain!
True
Best comment
All these christians are literally pulling quotes from the gospel of John with Ehrman adresses in the interview. Like did y'all even listen?
Oh, so now all of John is invalid bc Bart Erhman says so... Lol
@@derrickcarson if you listen to GOD you know the doctrines of men and devils lie. The real Jesus a lines with what the MOST HIGH commands and the gentiles grafted in their polytheist sun god
As an exChristian, I know logically Christianity is untrue, but emotionally I have the hardest time letting go. I can’t help but feel like I’ve lost such a big part of my identity and history.
I've never believed in religion even as a little kid I realized that this was a con , just like Santa and the tooth fairy.
best ehrman interview. intelligent questions and the interviewer knew how to keep out of the way and let bart answer the questions.
The Jews were expecting a Messiah. There is NO indication of a man-god in the OT. Or that a man-god would die for your sins. Christianity is full of contradictions, confusions.
Steel Nerves It's no wonder you are ignorant and confused, you have never read Isaiah or Psalms...in fact, Jesus is in every book in the Old Testament. You claim Christianity is "full of contradictions" yet you are unable to cite a single one. So much for your credibility...
You should watch some more brilliant Bart Ehrman videos. If you can find me just one paragraph where Jesus himself specifically says "Adam sinned, i am the son of God and through my death and sacrifice all the sin in the world will be redeemed after which you should all worship me if you want to enter heaven" then i will convert to christianity right now. Just one quote from Jesus - a few lines. Thats all i ask.
fearlesscrusader I have read Isaiah and the Psalms. It is not that Jesus is in every book of the OT, rather, it is that much of the story of Jesus is cribbed from the OT. For a start, you could compare the synoptic passion narratives to Psalm 22.
Steel Nerves Messiah means "The Anointed" and anointed does not mean a god.
Steel Nerves You're not a big fan of subtlety, are you?
Terry Gross is a marvelous interviewer.
the comments are comical. this man has spent many years, countless hours, studied the different languages, earned a PhD in biblical studies, and Cletus from the trailer park with a GED wants to refute him.
what degree do you have? you can have 5 degrees but money and school don't buy you class!
Ashley grant .god is gonna refute you
Svetla Nikolova I have a degree in common sense among others...
+Razor Stein you might have a degree! who cares? boasting means nothing. your degree is worthless to God!
i dont have a degree, you believe or dont believe, but you can never try to explain the bible out of sientific view eveeer and you keep talking about god and Jesus? no one gets to the father exept trough hes sun Jesus Christ! Amen.
I have just recently found you & your videos..... I love them!
It's painfully obvious that you know what your talking about. It's sad that so many are in denial of the truth.
I'm gonna watch every video you have.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
An atheist who takes their atheism seriously, refreshing.
Such an interesting man. I could listen to him all day.
Jesus is not "God" people. This is the biggest misconception in all of Theological History.
so Jesus was lying when he repeatedly claimed to be God.
Read the Bible man, and then you would know. Jesus is NOT God, and if you were to say that previously in Geneva, then you would get burned for heresy. Unitarianism all the way!!!!
I know Jesus is God because HE said so, you say he's not, Jesus says he is you say he isn't I guess you know where this is going.
I do know where this is going, and I do not agree that he was/is God. You should try to look up the Unitarian perspectives because they do have enough of tenable answers via Bible as the source to disprove your claim that he is God. Do you truly believe that it makes sense to you when you say that Jesus is the Son of God and God is his Father? Any rational person can differentiate from the two, and I believe that you truly have the astute capacity to tell one from the other. All this Holy Trinity garbage has been nothing but human fabrication and farce.
michael mooney
Quote a verse Jesus claims to be God Almighty.
You can't go to the level of understanding the broad angle of prophets. Christ incarnated as Jesus and walked the earth. If you accept or don't accept, Jesus is not at loss
There are facts and there are beliefs. Many people cannot tell the difference.
The bottom line is...can you believe in the holiness of the bible? If it was inspired, all accounts of the same event should be identical.
There are many differences in the Gospels of his death and resurrection. For example, in Mark, Jesus doesn't say anything while he's being led to the place of crucifixion or while he is being crucified, and while on the cross doesn't say anything until the end when he asks God, "Why hast thou forsaken me"?
In Luke he is not silent. On the way to the crucifixion, he sees the women weeping for him and he tells them not to weep for him but to weep for their families. While he's being crucified he says, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." On the cross he has an intelligent convo with one of the robbers and at the end he says, "...into your hands I commend my spirit."
Also, who is it that goes to the tomb first? Is is Mary Magdalene by herself or is it Mary with other women? Depends on which Gospel you read. Is the stone rolled away or not? Who do they see there? Is it a man as in Mark, two men as in Luke, or an angel as in Matthew? What are they told? Meet Jesus in Galilee or to stay in Jerusalem? Depends on the Gospel.
+Catherine Adams The difference you quote and are all through the 4 Gospels are exactly what you would expect with 4 different eyewitness accounts. If they were identical you would scream collusion. You will always see differences when you have multiple accounts.
+Laurie Durnan,
Amen. If 3 witnesses stood before a judge in a courtroom and their accounts were EXACTLY the same without any difference in detail, they would NEVER be believed!!
OurHumbleLife
Did you see my post on April 2? I think that answers your question. Did you mean to rely to me or Abu taj Md Mahbub??
Laurie Durnan Yes, I saw it. I was agreeing.
OurHumbleLife
lol ohh ok, thanks
Here is the quote from Josephus about saving not one but three of his companions from the cross. Only one survived thoug.
"I was sent by Titus Caesar with Ceralius and a thousand riders to a certain town by the name of Thecoa to find out whether a camp could be set up at this place. On my return I saw many prisoners who had been crucified, and recognized three of them as my former companions. I was inwardly very sad about this and went with tears in my eyes to Titus and told him about them. He at once gave the order that they should be taken down and given the best treatment so they could get better. However two of them died while being attended to by the doctor; the third recovered.”
In the text called Mark (before the Christians added to the ending), there was no resurrection. "He got up" and went to Galilee is not "He was resurrected from the dead".
His followers didnt say he was God. Jesus himself said he was sent by the Father.
Simple question to Trinitarian: if God is trinity since the beginning, why Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham did not worship God as the trinity since the beginning? Why trinity is only known since the 1st century ad?
Does God subject to time? that he is changed throughout history (time)?
First...Jew worship One God... then... Christian worship Trinity... later on... Muslim worship One God - there is something wrong in the middle (Christian's worship) isn't it?
All you upset and indignant responders have no shot at knocking down Ehrman---he is too damn learned on the topic. Spouting bible verse alone is not a realistic rebuttal. You "know" the bible is truth because, well.....you simply "know". No proof, no logic, is required (or available) for your belief.
David Anewman trying to disparage your opponents by equating their position to your own may not have the effect you think it does.
He may well be learned, but when he expounds on the Meanings of missing items in the gospel of Judas for instance, he shows unprofessional ism. And maybe ignorance. I'm not a Christian by the way.
Don't need the Bible to argue with this guy, he just hasn't offered much concrete evidence.
A superb discussion with Prof. Ehrman, a leading expert on ancient Christianity. He is the leading authority on the subjects discussed. Father John Dominic Crossan, another great historian of early Christianity has written that Jesus' body certainly remained on the cross until it decomposed and rotted, and was finally eaten by wild dogs, as was the rule at the time. The books by Father Crossan were best sellers and are readily available.
In the Synoptic Gospels, the divine attributes of Jesus, such as His deserving of worship (Matthew 2:11, 28:9; Mark 5:6; Luke 24:52) and His authority to forgive sins as God (Mark 2:1-12), were given emphasis.
Why was Jesus executed. Did he reply I am only human or the Messiah
He was considered to be a political threat to the Roman Empire...also the "thieves" at the crucifixion were not thieves . Interpretation of the word is wrong.
Because he was a fiercely Jewish revolutionary leader of the poor.
Jesus was killed for being son of God, that's the only claim jesus made, john 5:17 But he answered them: “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.” 18 This is why the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.
Trinitarians have changed that to say jesus wa killed for being God which is wrong
Jesus never said Im God Most High, Jesus said God Most High sent me to the world from heaven, I'm Gods son.
Matthew 14:33 Then those in the boat did obeisance to him, saying: “You really are God’s Son.” John 19:7
The Jews answered him: “We have a law, and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself God’s son.” John 10:36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 1 John 5:10
The person putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness within himself. The person not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given by God concerning HIS Son.
We just have to read the Bible for what it says. 1 John 4:12, 1 Corinthians 11:3, Deuteronomy 6:4, John 20:17, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Timothy 1:17, James 1:1, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and many more. All those verses clearly show that the Resurrected Jesus has a God, that God has never been seen, that God is One (not a Trinity), that God is eternal (not created), that God is not a man, that God is immortal (He can’t die, thus cannot be resurrected). And that the authors of the books of James, Peter, Timothy, John, Corinthians and Matthew all believed that the only God is the Father and that Jesus is His Son the Messiah.
Shema Yisrael too. Jesus affirmed this as a child and as an adult. Shema is an acknowledgment of one having a God whom they wish to be heard from.
Those verses that you have shown does not negate the divinity of Jesus and doe meant trinity is not true. You're just doing proof texting and ignore the rest.
You lost me at “read the Bible for what it says”.
Most people don't understand that because they don't read the Bible for themselves. The Trinity is a lie from Satan
@
UtubeLittleBagOfEverything By AgZ
Well said.
What people need to realize is that though HE may have not personally called HIMSELF GOD; HE never rebuked anyone that did.
Calling someone 'lord' does not mean he is Lord.
@@letmetalk2240 How about when Jesus called himself the Alpha and Omega?
I take issue with Ehrman's assumption that the only way Pilate would have released the body of Jesus shortly after his crucifixion was strictly an act of kindness to Jesus's followers. The politics of Judea at that time were extraordinarily complicated and it is just as possible that Pilate allowed them to take his body down and bury it in order to send a message to the Jewish elders that, though he allowed them to execute Jesus, that he wasn't about to allow them to dictate to him in all aspects of his rule.
Brilliant--& unusually courageous of PBS to deal with this sensitive issue so frankly. Ehrman lays it all out & ties it all together --not conclusively, which is not possible, but credibly & rationally--at moments almost irritatingly so. That's why the droolingly pious declare rationality the Enemy.
Thanks for this excellent interview. And, thank you for mentioning "Jesus of Montreal." That is one of my all time favorite movies & I thought I was the only person who has seen it. Knowing that you, a bible scholar, ranks it as your favorite Jesus movie makes me feel very good.
I left Christianity after reading the book
Thatis very interesting! What was your overall impression? Did you buy Bart's analysis? :-)
Personally I think that the idea of different Christologies and their connection with ancient religious beliefs in Rome (the three "models" Bart is talking of)made great sense, much more sense than prior theological explanations that I've heard.
That's because you don't become a Christian by reading the bible or any book.....the only way you can be a Christian and converted is by hearing the gospel through a born again man sent of God to preach it
Eternal life is emparted through the preaching of the gospel...you can't be educated into it
I decided to start reading the bible today. I, of course, started with Genesis. I have only read up to like 12 or 16 chapter of it and I am already finding mistakes. First of all, in genesis 2 (I think) after god had created the world and the humans and everything, he decides to rest because he was tired of all the work he had done. So, he decided to make the day he rested in a holy day. While this is not a mistake, it's still pretty hard to believe that a God rests and sleeps.
In genesis one, it talks about how god had made two lights in the sky. The bigger one to govern the Day, and the smaller one to govern the night. It is obviously talking about the sun and the moon. Where is the mistake? The mistake is that god had said that there be vegetables a day before he created the sun and the moon and, as everyone knows, vegetables can not grow without the sun. I know many will say "god can do anything!" But god has to also use logic and science. And besides, let's say that the bible really is from god, then when he revealed it, and people read through it, the people must have thought that vegetables do not need the sun to grow, thus giving wrong information to the people who had no science to say weather it's right or wrong.
The mistake I found while reading the story of Abraham is that Abraham calls the king pharaoh. I decided to do more research on this topic and found out that the word pharaoh did not exist until the new kingdom, which is around when Moses was born and Abraham definitely did not exist. In the story of Joseph, I read in the article, it also uses the word pharaoh.
I have not even finished genesis and has already found those mistakes, what will I find when I finish the bible?
Don jon:come to islam.jesus is muslim.He pray to one god.Jesus ia a messenger.During night journey to seven heavens Prophet muhammad s.a.w met prophet jesus at second heaven.
Thanks Dr. Bart Ehrman for such great insight
Daniel 7:13-14- In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Mark 2:10-11- But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--He said to the paralytic, "I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home."
That's a pretty clear declaration in Mark
There is more problem regarding Bart's assumptions. How and why did Paul convert from being a pagan to a devout follower? Why did Paul have to suffer and die for Christ the same way the apostles suffered and died for Christ? If the apostles doubted Christ then would it not be reasonable to abandon their claims and live happy lives? So if the gospel of John claims he is Divine how and why did it become so if it contradicts other gospels?
Jesus claimed power to forgive sins, Jesus allowed himself to be worshipped, and Jesus indeed called him self God in the whole chapter one of Revelation
***** Luck to you in your earnest quest brother.
+Dr. David M. Berman Obviously you never listened to the video carefully! Christians please wake up! He didn't say all these, they were misquoting him. Don't follow your faith blindly bro! Time to wake up and repent! The Bible had been corrupted, full of contradictions and errors! READ IT!
+MountainRecluse I presume you're quoting selectively from one of the 'gospes' none of which are eye witness reports or written by the ones claimed!
@PennsyltuckyPatriot John is not considered historical. It is considered to be purely theological. Nothing that is claimed to have happened only by John is considered to have really happened.
@PennsyltuckyPatriot I respect your sincerity and share your dismay. I reached that point in my faith life about five years ago. I asked myself some serious questions and gave myself some honest answers. I concluded that I no longer believed. Haven't looked back since. There comes a point in life where you have to confront your doubts and make a decision.
I have to disagree with Prof. Bart on his conclusion that Pilate would not have allowed Jesus' body to be taken from the cross and given a decent
burial based mainly on Pilate's reputation as a brutal and merciless governor. Bart believes Jesus was buried in a common grave among other crucified criminals. Bart also thought that Pilate would not have made an exception in Jesus' because he despised the Jews as unruly people to govern. I think Bart's premises are superficial and a little sloppy.
I believe the gospel accounts on this burial issue are more believable due to the following reasons:
First. Pilate, during the trials, found Jesus, innocent and was actually willing to release him. To dramatically emphasize his position, he publicly washed his hands to show he didnt want the blood of Jesus on his hands and conscience.
Second. Pilate's second attempt was during the annual observance of releasing a Jewish prisoner by the Romans as a gesture of political benevolence towards their subjects. The Jewish crowd would be allowed to choose between two prisoners who they favored for release. Pilate was hoping the crowd would choose Jesus out of pity at the sight of his bloody face and body over Barabbas, a boisterous and violent criminal with some notoriety. Jesus lost out because the crowd was orchestrated by the Jewish leaders in a mock trial in the middle of the night. The followers of Jesus who were present were badly outnumbered and could just watch frustrated and helpless the staged trial.
Third. As governor of the region, he also represented the Roman emperor in an ambassadorial capacity among the people's elite composed of rich and influential leaders like the Sadduccees, the Pharisees, rich merchants, rabbis, scribes and members of the Sanhedrin like Gamalieil, joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. Pilate moved and mixed with them in important state functions. Even even as a governor, he needed the cooperation and support of Jewish leadership who could easily go over his head and go directly to the emperor in Rome to air their grievances and put him on the carpet. Pilate was actually afraid of them for this reason
Fourth. Jesus had his own growing following among the people besides his apostles and close disciples. He was very popular as a healer preacher and teacher and even a miracle worker. In others words, he was not a nobody. There would have been a public outcry over his body.
Fifth. When joseph of Arimathea requested to be given Jesus' body for burial, Pilate could not have refused Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent figure in Jewish society, thus realizing the extent of Jesus' influence in higher siciety with whom Pilate must have good public relations.
Pilate even assigned two Roman soldiers to guard Jesus' tomb per request of the Jewish leaders.
Here I rest my case.
if Jesus had a following among the Jewish elites, then how better to placate them with little cost then to allow him a decent burial.
Wither you agree with professor Ehram's interpretations or not at least he has the openness and courage to allow conversations and criticism on all his videos, unlike a lot of videos you can find from Christians of a fundamentalist persuasion.
Thanks Bart Ehrman, very clear cut situation of how people followed the wrong path and are actually going against the original teachings of Abraham, mose, noah and all the prophets Who worshiped the one true god without any partners..
Isaiah 9:66 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
the benediction of a royal kid who one day was to set in the throne and wisely and justly rule over the people. nothing supernatural just the best wishes for the future king or ruler. even today we are always craving for a president to be just to be fair to act with desency to have knowlege and yet what do they do we all know the answer to that. but to claim that this plea is the one thing foretells the coming of the divinity to earth is just so farfetched. one can see the falsehood of this the distortion the scam but yet chose to go along just to be part of a group part of a community and not be rejected but i rather be rejected than to be part of such deseption. worshiping a lie worshipping a man worshipping a dead man even if simbolically this is clearly for all to see the trinity all blasphemys
Terry Gross asks some very pertinent questions.
Thanks NPR and Bart. Examining religions rationally furthers enlightenment.
Mark 14:60-62 (NKJV) And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
The 374 down votes are telling. A historian that takes his craft very seriously, presents objective evidence in his presentation, yet people can't handle it. What's not to like.
This isn't objective.
@@jimmyjimmy7240
Yes it is
Perhaps the question itself is misunderstood. "How did he become one?" or "How did he become "One"?"
There seems to be two basic truths, duality and non-duality. Perhaps he realized his non-dualistic nature when he went out into the desert for forty days prior to his ministry. The transformation occurred over many days and nights of contemplation of his identity. Something like, "I am Jesus" to "I am that I am" to "I am THAT I am"...
He transformed from his conditioned identity to That which is unconditional.
If God is the most powerful, the most all knowing and the most wise then why the only thing he could think of [is] only dying on a cross to save his worshippers?
Because there is no salvation without change and change can only come from within us. And the death of Jesus on the cross has allowed many to completely change themselves and their lives.
That was Paul's gospel, not Jesus. Jesus. "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly. Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their. trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." That completely busts the salvation of dying for sins on the cross
@Mark Simons
Blind follower your are. Your believes are based on emotions not intellectuals argumentation. Admitted or not you are on the wrong path. Either make a U turn or keep walking. What your answer would be when Jesus would tell you I never knew you, Go away.
Jesus cried out ,when hanging on the cross:"My God,my God,why hast thou forsaken me?"(Matt.27:46).If Jesus was God,then God had forsaken God! How can that be? How can God forsake God?(Mikael Lyngvig-Denmark).
Was just a demonstration
Kosam Sani He was quoting Psalm 22. The famous passage known as “The suffering servant”. Every detail down to the exact insults onlookers were hurling at Him as He hung on the stake was foretold. Mind-blowing if you ask me.
Natty Bumppo
I think you are referring to Isiah 53.
At the cross was the ONLY time Jesus called God “my God” and not “my Father”.
And why?? God put All sin of the world on Jesus and he took it with him in death to fulfill everything. God can not commit and become sin or allow sin in Him. That’s why only at that moment, God let Jesus go to take sin in death
@@Anthony_Gx At the cross was the ONLY time Jesus called God “my God” and not “my Father”
Not true. Shortly after his resurrection, Jesus said to Mary: "I am ascending to my Father and my God." (John 20:17) That never changed. For instance, after Jesus returned to heaven:
1. Paul wrote: "We give thanks for you to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Col. 1:3)
2. Peter said: "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 1:3)
3. John said: "[Jesus] made us a kingdom of priests to serve his God and Father." (Rev. 1:6)
Clearly, Jesus' Father was also Jesus' God.
One of the questions I asked myself as I took an objective look at Christianity was; where did the word Christianity come from and was the word ever mentioned to Jesus? Well, I did not find the word Christianity in the Bible, not even in a Bible dictionary.
Did Jesus ever claim to be God or say, "Here am I, your God, worship me"? The answer is no. For there is no single, unequivocal statement in the Bible whereby Jesus himself declares, "I am God, therefore worship me.
Specifically, I did not find in the Bible where Jesus called himself a Christian.
The word Christian was first mentioned by a pagan to describe those who followed Jesus. It is mentioned one of three times in the New Testament by a pagan and Jew in Antioch about 43 AD, (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:38 and 1 Peter 4:16) long after Jesus left this earth.
To accept the words of pagans as having any value or association with divinity, Jesus or God is contrary to the teachings of all Prophets.
Jesus prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9).
John 1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
ok? I don't see how this has anything to do with the video.
I simply dont understand..amazed and perplexed..why is so hard for many people to accept..recognise or conform to the this fact and reality before us.. Dr Ehrman speaks straight foward..everyone can understand.
I'm a Christian and l like your work Bart Ehrman but I also know you are wrong about Jesus. i do believe Jesus clearly says he's GOD without him actually say it, there are plenty of verses that back his claims. I do pray for you Bart Ehrman I hope one day you come to the truth and become a follower of Jesus ✝
But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." Hebrews 1:8-9
the resurrection is not a specific place or time it is imminent to each person as they wake up. Transformed understanding the physical being temporal. Can go in and out finding pasture or as it is also said entering his rest.
First, there are two chapters totaling some 82 pages (22% of the book) on the historical question of Jesus’ resurrection. While these chapters are interesting and present some fascinating data and arguments, they are largely irrelevant for the thesis of the book. At a couple of points, Ehrman indicates that it’s not really important to know whether or not the resurrection happened; what matters is that the disciples (or at least, some of them) believed that it did, and this in turn set off the process of reimagining Jesus’ identity. Why, then, provide 82 pages talking about why you think the resurrection probably didn’t happen?
To be clear, I don’t object to the chapters because of the wholesale doubt they articulate about Jesus being buried and raised-I think there’s an important place for this question to be asked in a historical Jesus book or book about the resurrection per se. But it felt to me like the chapters were included more for the purpose of laying out such doubt than for the purpose of furthering the book’s argument about how, in historical terms, the Galilean peasant came to be regarded as divine.
Second, in my view Ehrman jumps too quickly to the idea that the exaltation of Jesus is a divinization.
He does well to point out passages in the Psalms such as the royal “begetting” of the king as God’s son in Ps 2 and the declaration in Ps 45 that the king is “God.” Moreover, Ps 110 does become a heightened song of praise when Jesus is seen as “the Lord” enthroned, literally, at God’s right hand. And, he is surely correct to argue that applying such passages to Jesus was part of the process of reinterpreting Jesus’ identity as a glorified, heavenly messianic figure.
But does all of this mean that the king of Israel was thought to be divine, or that these psalms were so interpreted in Jesus’ case?
I think there is another explanation, an explanation we get hints of in a couple of places where Jesus’ resurrection/exaltation/enthronement is precisely the question at hand.
In Acts 2, when Peter gives a speech that is largely about the resurrection of Jesus fulfilling the promises of a coming messiah, he provides a quite plausible and sufficient Christology: “Jesus was a man attested by God.”
It may be that there is far more capacity for human beings to be exalted, heavenly figures than Ehrman has taken stock of.
Similarly, “the resurrection chapter” in 1 Corinthians 15, which is also an enthronement/exaltation chapter, the entire point is that Jesus is the first of a new kind of humanity. Jesus is not raised as God, which would nullify the whole argument about the “second man” who determines the destiny of the rest of the harvest, but as “consummated, idealized humanity.”
In my estimation, recognizing the place of exalted human beings to play the role of God throughout the Jewish tradition modulates some of Ehrman’s claims that the resurrection causes Jesus to be regarded as a divine figure in, e.g., the Synoptic Gospels. While I agree with him that the Synoptic Tradition contains an “exlatation” Christology that is an extraordinarily high Christology, I see this as an exalted, idealized human Christology, not a divine Christology per se.
In other words, my dissatisfaction has to do with the Christology being too “high”/divine in his reading of the Synoptic Gospels and a couple of other strands of the early Christian tradition.
God in the old testiment said His name was "I Am",Jesus said I Am claming He was God,He even said He was before Abraham which was impossible if He hadn't lived before,so its conclusive that Jesus claimed to be God.
Many people have said "I am". Are they all God?
@@nobleradical2158 thanks for your reply,could you pls give me some references thanks
“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)
One what?
One in sharing the name / nature
@@EK-sx9ek One in sharing the same ideas!!! Obviously.
@@EK-sx9ek Hello Sir! God and Jesus have different names Psalms 83:18 is God's name. Amen
John 17:3 ???
He did . You just want to ignore how he did it...the Jews back 2000 years understood what he was saying.
He didn’t. You just can’t accept that he didn’t. The Jews back 2000 years ago and even now know that Jesus was neither god nor the messiah.
no matter how simply and clearly that people like Bart explain all the confusion, alterations and insertions that are in the Bible, the evangelists will keep banging the same drum. the NT stories have been shown to have turned Jesus from a man to a man- god..
the objective of all main churches in the world will always be power and money.
Because his conclusions are based on his own assumptions and conjectures on what happenned. He has no prove that his conclusions are right.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
John 5:18 - Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill (Jesus) him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh the Old Testament is a Jewish book , it's their religion that was hijacked by a cult and they didn't believe Jesus was anything but a man .
@Roy if You do a check with a Jewish teaching on Isaiah 53 it isn’t about Jesus, and Jesus didn’t fulfill all prophecies in order for him to be the Messiah there’s a few he didn’t do and the biggest was to bring about would peace. The prophecy states that the messiah would bring peace, but Jesus said I didn’t come to bring peace. Christian scholars has tried to bypass this one and claim Jesus will bring peace when he returns, that’s cool and all but the prophecy doesn’t say that so that is only inserting the opinion of the scholar because he is biased toward Jesus & wants him to be the messiah. There’s many more problems the jewish people have with the New Testament, you should maybe listen to what bothers them than you may just see that it doesn’t add up.
Question is: Why is Judas considered such a bad guy when what he did was necessary to cause the crucifiction?
(Edit: spelling) 😉
How can Judas be a bad guy when he did God's Will also? Right?
It's best understood when you realize that there is no such thing as "the will of the father" or even "god" to begin with. then the pieces fit properly
I wondered that myself, until I realized that it stems from flawed story crafting. Here's another one: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son." If you or I were to "give" our son in the way being inferred here, would God., in his example with Christ, or you and I have done something more worthy the qualifier "so' (SO loved the world)? God in fact did not "give" his son but for three days, and making it even less impressive, he did so knowing full well that he'd have him back in three days. We're supposed to be awed about the love and the sacrifice. This is the writers intention. Did he not get the memo on what exactly transpired? My guess is that there were a lot of cooks in the kitchen over several decades as this religion was fomenting. Ehrman for one talks about the different and conflicting philosophies born out by the gospels.
what do you mean God’s will?
Christians should honor Judas.
Professor Bart Ehrman, this is a wonderful radio interview, and I appreciate that you put it up on youtube for all of us to enjoy. There is not a separate 'spirit of God' in Hebrew thought. God is an intelligent spiritual Being, and He and His presence (spirit = wind = presence) are One. The Ruach Ha Kodesh is when a human being experiences the Presence of God. This is a consistent view within the Hebrew bible also. The God of the Hebrew bible intervenes in human history when it pleases Him to do so, but He is not bound by His creation, but is rather entirely independent of it. The unity of God is a topic that Jews love.
+72Yonatan Panentheism yes. And don't forget about the Shekinah. She is the Holy Spirit, the Ruach ha Kodesh. Shalom.
Mamam Tua - Sorry, but God and His Unity are not fractured or splintered. Shekinah means the Presence of God that a human being feels. God does not have separations in Himself.
Here, in this world, a father and mother are two. But in the supernal world, the two are one yet still Father and Mother.
Mamam Tua - No, they are not. One may call God his parent, either mother or father, but that does not mean that God has any division in His Unity or any human attributes. You are confused.
***** Well, there are some similarities and some differences. Ruach Ha Kodesh is understood in Hebrew as when people feel the Presence of God, and prophets feel that more intensely, depending upon the level of prophecy that individual has attained for himself.
Christians try hard [ maybe too hard ] to make everything linear and to classify everything. God and His unity are simple. He is entirely spiritual, and does not depend upon His physical creation or the angels He created. he is entirely independent. Hence He and His spirit are not separate in any way. The only reason that men can feel His spirit in their lives is that we have a spiritual dimension to our own selves - and that spirit - [ soul, whatever term you wish to use] is what sees, is what is human consciousness, and is what communes with God in prayer.
Human beings are a combination of spirit clothed in flesh and bones. When Jesus is both flesh and spirit, for a Jew, this means he was merely like all other men, not distinct.
The flaw with Christianity is that the Romans wrote the book and made up the faith to promote their own political goals. The emperors of Rome were highly educated, and for them this was part of political science.
It was their way to rule over the masses and to challenge Judaism and to censor and rewrite Jewish history so that it would turn out well for Rome.
What they did not count on was that many Jews among the common folks were taken in by the deception, and they brought their attitudes and practices with them. So Rome arrested those new christians from among the Jews who might disturb the peace and had them fed to the lions in Rome for entertainment. The irony is that Jewish slave labor helped build the coliseum. The other irony is that many of the early martyrs of the christian faith were either actually Jews or members of the royal family who were somehow killed in disputes about the newly created faith. Flavius Clementine was the first bishop of Rome for the new faith, and he was killed by another family member in a quarrel. The Roman Catholic Church later tried to fill the gap and created mythic popes before him who never actually existed and have no history. The only popes who had recorded family and history are from Clementine onward. Those are the real history of the church, which they try to conceal and hide. What they also do not want you to know is that many of the churches in Italy are built over the sites of previous places of worship that were owned by members of the royal family. See the basilica of Clementine, which contains a Mithraeum reached by tunnels from within the church itself. Whatever licentious acts were committed there we will not know, since they intentionally did not leave any written literature about their cult, which was popular with soldiers and only contained male cult members who were privately initiated in the underground chambers where drinking and feasting and sacrifices and other abominations likely took place. This is the real history of the Roman Christian faith, and it is something most people do not know about.
As a Christian, you are not guilty of anything. You were told what to believe as a child, and that is why you believe that a baby popped out from a woman who supposedly claimed that ' god ' made her pregnant. For Jews, this is obviously a pagan myth that the Romans threw into their book to entertain themselves.
Also, remember that there was an important dispute mentioned in the Greek Evangelion between James, surviving brother of Jesus, and between Paul, the former Saul of Tarsis - which is a city in Spain. Saul was a Roman citizen and proud of that fact. He also brags about killing the early believers of the church that he would promote after receiving his vision.
Now, as an adult, I ask you to take a closer look at all this. As a Jew, I have no compulsion or duty to convert you. Even sincere people wishing to convert now are having a hard time to finish the process.
But I ask you to learn about the laws of the Benei Noach community. These laws will be in effect when the messianic age arrives, and any violations at that time will be severely punished. I am studying the subject myself in Mishneh Torah, in the uncensored version of the text.
I have no great love for Christianity itself. Its existence as a political and psychological tool in Roman hands was also later used as the source of most of the antisemitic propaganda in the world for the last two millennia. I have no love for the forbidden idea of worshipping both God and an idol side by side. For Jews, the idea of partnership of God with any other deity or pagan concept is absolutely out of the question and is forbidden. But I do view Christians separately and as individuals. I do not also lump all Muslims into the same category merely because a large percentage of them want me dead or because some Arabs have attacked us viciously in the past months, decades, and centuries.
They do not have a problem with monotheism in their faith. That much is common between us. However, they have been taught that all christians and jews have somehow changed their scriptures and therefore it is impossible to hold any real religious dialogue with them. I generally avoid it, since I know what the end result will be.
If you have other questions, please feel free to ask. Today is the busiest day of the week for me, however, so I cannot promise a speedy reply today. Tonight is the Shabbat.
Can someone with deep knowledge answer, why did Jesus not correct Apostle Thomas, when he called him “My Lord and My God”, If Jesus was not God.
Let’s read the conversation, between Jesus and Apostle Thomas in the Gospel John 20:27-29
Then Jesus said to Thomas,” Put your fingers here; see my hands. Reach out your hands and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
Thomas Said to Jesus, “My Lord And My God!”
Then Jesus told Thomas, “ Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believe.”
Let “ My Lord And My God” Bless one and all.
Hosea 11:9 "...... for I am God and not man" (God speaks).
John 8:40 "... and now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth" (Jesus)
John 4:24 - God is a spirit and you shall worship Him in spirit and truth.
Luke 24:36-39 .... a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see I have (Jesus).
There is no denying Jesus is the sinless Son of God. He is the Mediator between God and Man. God works miracles through Him. He is above all men.
To a Hebrew who used the term 'Son of David, Son of Abraham' etc. it meant 'descended from.' Ben David, Ben Abraham, Ben Elohim. Jesus descended and ascended. Jesus is the spirit. 2 Cor 3:17
OurHumbleLife If one reads John 1 in Moffatt, it says "the Word was divine" so "the Word was God" should be in an adjective sense, meaning Jesus has all the qualities of God but it still remains that the Father is the true God. Also, Hebrews 1:8 in Moffatt and NWT say "God is thy throne". John 1 in the New World Translation says "the Word was a god" and that supports the false Jehovah's Witness belief that Michael the Archangel came to the earth as Jesus; if one reads Hebrews 1, even in the NWT, no angel sits beside the Father so MtA is not Jesus.
Ludwig vonGrein Why Gospel of John? It's the last Gospel of the 4. Jesus pbuh went from a Prophet of God as taught by his brother James. To being a spiritual Angel- letters of Paul, the Son of God - 3 Gospels, onto being god himself in John's Gospel.
Experts on the Bible say when you read John's Gospel, it's hard to know when the narrator is speaking and when Jesus pbuh is speaking and then it dawned on them, Jesus pbuh is not speaking, rather whoever wrote the anonymous Gospel of John was speaking for both of them, ie putting those words on his lips!
sham star the bottom line is Jesus is the Son of God in John 20:31. Jesus calls God out in Matt 27:46. When He is resurrected His state of being remains flesh and bone (Luke 24:36-39).
These Argentine Christian will show you that Jesus will get the SAME praise, worship, glory and blessings as his Father in Revelations 5:12-14
One of my favorite verses in the KJV or NIV that I use is Zechariah 12:10 "Mourning for the One They Pierced" Who is he? Jesus Christ.
This is Jehovah God that I prefer the name YHWH who is speaking in this verse.
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son
The key Phrase on this verse to concentrate is "THEY WILL LOOK ON ME (YHWH) SPEAKING. THE ONE THEY HAVE PEIRCED (THAY IS JESUS). THIS VERSE IS CONTINOUS. JUST REMOVE THE PARENTHISIS. READ THE VERSE IN FULL THAT IS ONLY ONE. PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THIS VERSE IS TRYING TO SAY. THANK YOU
"Only in John"
Mark chapter 14
@@zeeraksamuel1124 luke 6:5
A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. Proverbs 18:2
A prudent man keeps what he knows to himself, but the hearts of fools shout forth their foolishness. Proverbs 12:23
Interesting to apply that to evangelical preachers...
Knowledge of men nothing to God.
So you are saying that Jesus was a fool because he did not keep what he knew to himself. If you keep what you know to yourself your children will grow up to be fools, and you would have wasted everything that you learned by taking it to the grave with you. What would the medical profession be if people practiced what you preach?
Then John the Baptist was a fool.
J J
How come ?
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was (manifest in the flesh), justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Curley Washington Jr. Said Flavius Josephus or better know as Paul the Judas that actually never knew Jesus
One thing that God could never know (He could guess, but He could not know for sure)......what it is like to live the short life of a human being, to know that you are going to die, to know that everyone that you love and like is going to die, to know that people suffer, to understand what it is like to be tempted into sin, to know what it is like to be falsely accused, to be betrayed, to love and be loved....
So He came to us as a living person, so that He could know us better, so that He could KNOW that those who try, and fail, deserve forgiveness too
In John 20: 26, Thomas calls Jesus God And after eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27, Then said he to Thomas, Reach here your finger, and behold my hands; and reach here your hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28, And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29, Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Book of Bilbo 1:1, "In a hole there lived a hobbit."
The difference between The Hobbit and the Bible is, we remember who wrote The Hobbit...
Jesu say,I can't do anything on my own.I do only ,what God,commands me to do. (John 5:19 :30).
Strahinja That means Jesus contradicts himself and can’t be God as God cannot contradict himself
@@sudaissohail4851 actually you are both wrong. Read Philippians 2. Jesus gave up his rank in the God head and came to earth. So the Father was greater than He while on earth
The Bible says it's Spiritually discerned so if your a believer and have that spiritual understanding of it, then go with it. Don't let anyone take that away from you. Keep the faith!
Bart Ehrman is a dreamer.
He's a nightmare
What if, in spite of who Pilate was, as Prof. Bart says, I say that Pilate could have granted an axception to let the body of Jesus have a decent burrial upon the request of Joseph of Aramathea is 'highly likely' by basing on the facts that 1. Pilate's wife suggested him not to condemn Jesus, 2. Pilate himself and his superiors did not find any fault in Jesus, and 3. Pilate washed his hands in front of the accusers to show his innocence in the condemnation of Jesus to death?
How about reversing the question? How did God became man?
Through people accepting pagan ideas.
one last comments. Jesus didnt have to say he is God. He just demonstrated by the works he did. amen
Moses did miracles. He god also?
Terry always sounds like she's 25 years old. One of the great radio voices
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
John 10
As Ehrman points out, John was edited with the sole intention of giving divinity to Jesus. It is the only book in which you'll find these references. It was probably originally written without these references, but by the end of the first century, it was riddle with them. Look up any reference to Jesus being god, and you'll always find a John verse, never anything else, with the exception of the trinity, which we know is a Constantine-Era interpolation (or rather council of Nicea Era).
@@deluxeassortment
every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord
if that doesn't spell it out for ya.....
@@deluxeassortment in Matthew 23:37 Jesus said something very interesting for a mere mortal “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." Sounds like something the creator would say.
@@liljade53 "Sounds like something the creator would say."
So if I say "I'll have to make a better world next time" then that shows that I am the creator of the universe?
Mohammad says things like this according to the Quran so is he the creator?
But what I really want to know is how you know what a creator sounds like.
What does a creator say and how do you know?
ray salmon You Christians are in complete ignorance and blindness but you seek to Judge others but struggle to see your own sinfulness.
“I was before Abraham “ ment that he was the one who came with its two Cherubs to se Abraham and eat with him before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.Hence he was implying he is not son of Man but God with “I was before Abraham “
Jesus is Son of God, the sacrifice for people's sins.
I'm a Christian and I see the Trinity doctrine (Jesus is Son of God and God at the same time, so own father/son) as something so unbelievably ridiculous, illogical that I cannot believe that anybody could believe it.
It is clear that Jesus is referencing Exodus 3 when Moses was speaking to YHVH, when he says, "Before Abraham Was, I AM" (John 8:58), and the response from the crowd was to stone him. Not only was he saying that he was God, but doing so in a very personal way. He was communicating, that he was God of Israel.
Amen!
Ehrman acknowledges that John's Gospel has Jesus claiming divinity, but states that it is unlikely that Jesus actually made this claim, in part because such an important claim would have been mentioned in more than one gospel if the historical person of Jesus had actually said it.
+Mohammed Zabir the Old Testament declares him as God as well. there will be a child who will be called Immanuel, meaning god with us. he will also be called son of the most high. because this verse as well declares Jesus as both god and son of god and because scripture declares there is but one god this also bears significance for the plurality of god's essence vilifying the Trinity doctrine. that is why Jesus is yhwh is god, Jesus is also god, the Holy Spirit is also god but they are one in the same. more evidence from scripture that there is a plurality of god is in the creation story when yhwh declares "come let US make man in OUR image and likeness." and all throughout the Old Testament there were sayings such as "The LORD said to my LORD" also in the creation story the very first verse says "in the beginning was the word, and the word was WITH God and the word WAS God. Jesus was the word that became flesh.
+Mohammed Zabir and I'll put this simply for all eyes to see. all abrahamic faiths declare that god can do all things. why do so many make this claim and then say god couldn't become flesh. he created flesh. why could be not become flesh? he could do it again if he wanted to. god could walk up to you in the flesh any day and you would not even know it was him
David Lutke You've never read the bible then
Romans 1 : 3 "........... regarding His Son, who as to his human nature, was a descendant of David......."
Are you idiot? If you pick a random verse from chapter and ignore everything around OBVIOUSLY you can proof anything.
How about John 10:30
“I and father are one”. ?????
How about Mathew 11:27
“Only those who Son will want to enter heaven will enter”
How about John 5:33
“Because father gave ALL judgement to Son”
@@burnadze depending your faith with 3 verses whom you even dont know who wrote is, remarkable.
That is how God is. God who does take on a human form to this day, can and does speak to any person without that person knowing it was God who spoke because God who came as Jesus, was and is so modest. It is the message He wants delivered, not a perpetual shock that would occur. However, Jesus did refer to himself as being God when he said, he gave us eternal life, when he said, He is in all of us, and when he said before Abraham was born, I am.
He said and on His knees, fearing the cross, He prayed Father without you I'm nothing. He said clearly, I am the Alpha and Omega. I am the Truth the Way and the Light. He said Love the Father with all of you and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He said Forgive and You will be forgiven. He said I am The Son Of Man! He sat with drunkards and mingled among Lepers. He stood up for the prostitute and healed the faithful. He cast out demons. He said the only way to the Father is through me. Call unto me and I will answer. He was tempted but was not. His name is Jesus the Son Of Man. In the beginning there was the Word and from the beginning of the light there was the word.. He said as plain as day that I didn't come to change one jot of Moses law. I didn't come to condemn man but to offer the world salvation. He called Mary Mother in the flesh but , woman in the spiritual form. She was but, a vessel and Chosen by the Father for His only begotten son. He said oh ye publicans you have turned my Fathers House into a den of thieves full knowing his destiny. He spoke in parable to protect His flock from the theology of man. He said pray as a child and the best thing I know was when He said He does not want your chants. My name is Kevin and I believe exactly what was revealed to me by The One Who's image I was created . I feel Him and Smell Him. when I can still my mind He speaks and speaks clearly. He is on the right Hand Of God for He is my new Testament. He has made all things new again for He is Messiah!
You should pray to The God of jesus to show you the truth.
I do not have any specific belief system. I have only my personal understanding which is the source of our being is divine. So by this understand the words of Jesus and many other spiritual teachers.
I think gods word stands on it's own not on mans interpretation. The disciples were sent to preach the gospel, not to interpret it. Man has to many versions to be correct theres only one interpretation & thats through prayer and gods interpretation. No where in the scriptures do
we read the apostles saying and what that means is, because they knew they were sent to preach the gospel not to interpret the gospel. That alone belongs to god through prayer.
What does that mean, "gods word stands on it's own" ? It's a book! Supposedly a book that God wants us to read and follow. "God's interpretation" ? Who was the Bible written for? For God or for us humans? "The gospel" that you want to preach needs to be explained so that people can understand it. And "the right understanding" of that gospel has been the subject of heated debate among various "apostles" for nearly 2000 years. You can't both let God's word "stand on its own" and preach it at the same time. As soon as you do, you're interpreting.
Upon putting his finger in Jesus' wounds, didn't Thomas say, "Lord and my God", and didn't Jesus say, "Blessed are those who believe without seeing"? I have not listened to the whole audio yet, maybe Bart addresses this....
There is one God no has anyone partner child,....
Thats the monotheism
Amonite also beileve that no other god except Amon-are they true faith??
@@brothermagdi5637 MAY THE LORD JESUS THE CHRIST BLESS EACH AND EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE, AND ALL YOUR LOVED ONES. AMEN.
@@brothermagdi5637 the Pharohs never said that he was one God they had their trinity which is Isis, Osiris and Horus while Amon is just a "unification" of these gods whilst GOD the God of Abraham is ONE one in "identity and number"
@@DiscoveringSalvation Christ acc. to you wasn't able to save himself from death despite being a "god" meanwhile acc. to me is a profound honorable prophet whom God approved to his prayers like he always did before and saved him from humiliation
@@merromerro1618 Yes, you got the first part spot on ........ but there was never only one god ! Why people believe in this one god stuff is beyond me, when you only have to look to the Sumerian clay tablets for the origins of all of it ...... and for some strange reason people don't believe what was written thousands of years before the bible was even thought of, but prefer to believe what some men wrote and compiled into what is called the Bible ..... pure madness !
An atheist told me that he spoke to a Jehovah witness that told him that he would miss out on paradise and that he would no longer exist. When the Jehovah witness told him that hell did not exist, he said "Oh good, now I can live anyway that I want to live without suffering any consequences of hell. He never wanted to go to paradise anyway and he gets to not exist just the way he wants it. No hell and no punishment.
A lot of confusion in the comments as to what Son of Man and Christ mean. Christ just means Messiah, the anointed theocratic human ruler. Not necessarily god, and in Jewish tradition , definitely not god.
The meaning of Son of Man apparently changed over the years. It is quite a confusing phrase if Son means god. In Jewish and almost all cultures, the son is inferior to the father. So Son of Man would seem to be a servant of man. But in the verses about Son of Man being Lord of the sabbath , in each case the word translated as Lord should be “master” because the Greek is Kurios. These verses are saying that the sabbath is made for man, so man is master of the sabbath (which goes against the Torah which Jesus is quoted as saying must be upheld to the letter.)
Jesus stated he prayed to the Father who was in heaven, and would return back to heaven to be with the father...
There’s a judgement day for all no one goes up or down before judgement day....
@@tahliah6691 : Prove there is "up and down."
@@tahliah6691 to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord
So that makes at least two Gods then. God, and Jesus. And then there is the rogue Spirit scaring the shit out out of everyone in their hallucinations.
@@stevenpeaketrainsandstuff3682 no. Three persons make up one God. Father Son and Spirit
Awesome Interview! I wish I would become either such a good interviewer or a reputable professional.
Who ran the universe during the three days that Jesus was dead in the grave?Was God dead for three days? Did the universe vanish for three days? Mikael Lyngvig (Denmark).
Thomas saw Jesus after Jesus was raised from the dead & said my Lord and my God
My lord and my God, he doesn't mean that jesus is the God
@Aubrey De La Vega HIS ANGEL GABRIEL@HOLY SPIRIT BRING WORDS FROM GOD TO MARY TO BORN JESUS,MEAN JESUS NOT SEND HIS ANGEL LIKE YOUR KOINE GREEK SAY,HOW JESUS SENDING HIS ANGEL WHILE HE ALSO SENDING BY ANGELS WHO BRING GOD WORDS..THAT WHY WHEN JESUS CALL FATHER IN ME,ME IN FATHER,WHERE IS HOLY SPIRIT,BCAUSE IF JESUS SAY LIKE THAT MEAN TRINITY IS FALSE CONCEPTIONS LOSE ONE PERSON THAT IS HOLY SPIRIT@GABRIEL,MEAN JESUS NOT GOD,LIKE HE SAY ON THE (JOHN 12:56) VS DEUT 18:15,AND HE SAY TO HIS DISCIPLES,I GO TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER,MY GOD AND YOUR GOD,JESUS HAS A GOD,AND HE NOT GOD WHILE YHWH AS FATHER..THIS CONCEPT BRING CONFUSED BY CATHOLIC CHURCH,SEE CATHOLIC CHURCH ENCYCLOPEDIA,II,PAGE 263,THEM CHANGED JESUS NAME TO 3 PART..AND JESUS HAS BEEN VOTE AS GOD BY NICEA 325AD..
The title of this is unbecoming of a true scholar. Just look at the gospel passages where Jesus claims himself "before Abraham was, I AM", "I am the TRUTH< the WAY, and the LIFE" which are the attributes of God, "I and father ARE ONE", "you will see the son of man seated at the right hand of the father and coming in glory and power to judge", and many more. The purpose of the title is perhaps to sensationalize to make it popular.
I’m a fan of his...He continues to give his sources and his logic that supports his philosophies...If you don’t agree then you can always do your own research...An example for me is his use of the word pagan ... By his own definition it means country bumpkin ... Which is great but in one of his books called “ Rise of Christianity” he refers to polytheist has pagans... When they clearly were part of the intellectual group... It’s not until after Theododsius that polytheist become pagans..
That problem is really small and trivial has compared with what you can actually learn from him...For my purposes he’s the best!
Jesus is not God, did not claim to be God... he was made God many years after his death. It was more appealing to the romans to make him God and it was also appealing to roman polytheist beliefs to create this concept of trinity, which effectively made roman cathiloc christianity a non-monotheist religion.
I have nothing against Ehrman at all (I am an agnostic as well, though perhaps not so militantly so), but I have to wonder whether any learned Christian apologists were given the opportunity to speak to NPR's listeners. Something tells me the answer is an emphatic NO. Ehrman is being used to further NPR's agenda of discrediting those who hold Christian beliefs.
Pilot did not want Jesus to be crucified ,so feeling guilty he gave Joseph Jesus body
If Pilate didn't want Jesus crucified, why did he order his crucifixion?
Pilot 👩✈️ ? Wtf you mean Pilatus?
Also let’s not forget the influence of Joseph of Arimathea. If he could go to someone like Pilatus to ask for Jesus body, then he must have serious influence or good standing with pilatus because that would be suicidal for a common man to do
I figure it's because of pagan converts misunderstanding the Jewish concept of Messiah. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, and often referred to himself as the Son of Man, in reference to Daniel 7 which many Jews would have understood but not Roman imperials, as a code word for Messiah. The Son of God title is easily understood as the King. Many cultures refer to the King as the son of the gods or God. But in Judaism, the Messiah, eschatologically speaking, is a man chosen by God to be the King of a restored Israel. Judaism views the Messiah, not necessarily as a divine being, but as one anointed with the spirit of God, so kind of God-like per se. It's very foreign to a Western culture, and hard to explain. Perhaps someone more versed in Judaism can help me out. Anyway, when pagans began converting to the new found Christianity (still Jewish) they misinterpreted what the Messiah was, and when it was made the Roman religion, the Messiah, son of God, became the SON of GOD, literally.
He is given EVERY title function and characteristic of God. He NEVER refuses them, AS YOU AND I WOULD.
Tim Spangler That is what Christians claim.. of course religious suckers ignore the Hebrew scriptures, textual criticisms of the New Testament, and history itself.
Care to elaborate at all?
Keaton Smith I would definitely like to elaborate. You referred to the title "Son of God". It is very simple. When that title was applied to him in, among other places, it was interpreted as Jesus being "equal to God" and to "BE God"(John 5:18 and John 10:31 and following.
In fact every time the Jews "picked up stones" (to KILL him) it was for a SINGLE reason...BLASHEMY. Claiming to be God. This is the SINGULAR charge by the Jews and the reason he was put to death.
It is also the line of demarcation between believing and not believing.
Choose wisely.
Tim Spangler What is with these fruitcakes wanting to deny the deity of the Lord Jesus? It's weird!
And I guess he also didn’t understand what messiah meant not only to Jesus but to the Jews and the disciples
Jesus could do whatever he saw "The Father (God)" do. He healed people, he raised people from the dead. He himself returned from the dead. He showed the Godly power working through him. It became obvious.
"Just Believe." Sadly, not all will believe. We shall all know the truth and be set free in eternity. Whether it's an eternity with or without God and peace is up to you.
Yes how does any man who is finite -Human. needs food and sleep, etc. become infinite-in need of NOTHING ?! especially when we don’t read in Scriptures where he calls himself God Almighty ! Would a GOD be born ?! DIE ?!
In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus ( peace be upon him ) appears to try hard to convince his disciples he is the same as he was before he left them ! ‘...for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see I have “...
Philippians 2 7
Jesus said those who have seen me have seen the Father
he said who believe in me and will follow me will be a true believer of God (which is what all the prophet asked there followers to do so they get to Haven)..
a sick nothing, truly a loathsome creature. Hindus say Krishna and Rama are man gods just like you say Jesus is man god
You are assuming that he actually said this . How are you authenticating how factual these texts really are ? When were they written ? Who wrote them? What is your historical evidence ?
annastesia67 -hmm did Jesus said that????, but there is not a single gospel call Jesus I the biblos
@a sick nothing, truly a loathsome creature. wrong.
Jesus was not God, he was born and bred,he breathed air, had his own DNA in his blood, he ate food and drank just like anyone else, he was born a prophet who was teaching monotheism to all of us, some people claim that he was God, how wrong can they be...
People may Hallucinate, but all 11 Disciples saw him
The final moment Jesus cried out "God, why do you forsake me!" Which God was Jesus referring to? Did Pilates wash his 'hands off' that he was not involved in Jesus' death?
If you knew the Scriptures that Jesus knew, you’d realize he is quoting from Psalms. Hinting at the texts which most Jews had memorized from school.
Take your head out of western thinking and you’ll start to understand the Gospels. Jesus was not a gentile living in the west and educated under Tacitus or Socrates
Pilot did have motivation to release Jesus’ body to Joseph of Aramathea. He demonstrably washed his hands of the deed, and no doubt perceived the innocence of Jesus, relative to the charges made by Jewish leaders of the other criminals. Guilt is very motivating.
The Vale was Torn in the Temple as Jesus died on the Cross. There were appearances of Jesus to The Disciples and 500 witnesses after Jesus resurrection.