Reasonable Doubts - How Jesus Became God
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2017
- Jeremy Beahan and Justin Schieber of the now defunct Reasonable Doubts Podcast, interviews Dr. Bart Ehrman on his book "How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee." Episode 130 aired on July 25th, 2014. How did Jesus, an apocalyptic prophet from Galilee, come to be regarded as a God by his followers? Bart traces the historical evolution of early Christian thought about the nature and identity of Jesus.
Program discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=13192
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Reasonable Doubts was a radio show and podcast for people who won't "just take things on faith." Reasonable Doubts took an informative and humorous look at religion from a freethinking perspective. Reasonable Doubts' mission was to investigate the claims of religion from a fair-minded yet critical perspective. Reasonable Doubts was a production of WPRR Reality Radio (Grand Rapids, MI) and was the winner of the 2009 Peoples Choice Award for Best Religious/Inspirational Podcast.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and WPRR Reality Radio. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and WPRR Reality Radio is strictly prohibited.
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I find Ehrman's views of Jesus very plausible and to give the most simple explanation of what probably happened historically
One of the things I appreciate about Dr. Ehrman is that I feel no pressure to give up my religion (United Methodist). I feel that this professor has given us "information to make us think!" I have just purchased all of his audible books, as well as all his books for the Ama zon Kindle.
I teach Adult Study Bible study and no one at this time wants to study about "historical".
Perhaps this will change in time. Hope so.
Dr. Ehrman, I attended a lecture/debate in Kansas City. It was great! I still have the right to think for myself. ☺. Thank you for your scholarship, books lectures
Keep listening. Pressure building
What's "United Methodists?" I was born into Mormonism. I'm still studying the various forms of Christianity. Of course I've rejected my cultural sect, Mormonism. It's easily refuted. At present, I consider myself atheist.
@@utah133 the have a central command / admin office
@@utah133 Mormonism is what made me doubt all religion. If a known liar and crackpot can start a successful religion in the 1830s and grow it despite his own wife calling him a charlatan then why should I trust any preacher?
@@utah133 as an atheist, if you were to found out that Catholic Christianity was true, would you become a Catholic Christian?
Thank you! :)
Bart Ehrman mentioned a debate he had with someone and if I remember correctly it was about whether or not Jesus claimed to be God, I was hoping there was a link in the description or possibly a reference to the debate and the person he was debating cuz I'm now at the end of the video and don't quite recall and not thrilled at the idea of having to re-listen to an almost hour long video for that snippet of information. Do you happen to have it on hand?
I think you are recalling the debate Ehrman had with Simon Gathercole on Unbelievable?, he mentions it around 44:45
interesting arguments thanks
Ehrman is no joke !
Professor Ehrman should delve more into the influence of Muthraism and other pagan beliefs on Christianity. Also on the original single gospel that Jesus received in his native language Aramaic and the prophecies of coming of last and final prophet
RIP Reasonable Doubts, I haven't found a podcast to replace this. Does anyone have any recommendations?
Have you checked out Real Atheology with Justin Schieber?ua-cam.com/channels/Qa6mPLOE2yuMCrDjRio_nA.html
Real Atheology podcast.
hi, it is me again THERE IS NO TRINITY> JESUS IS GODS SON NOT GOD THE SON! YOU ARE A F ING IDIOT! YOU KNOW NOTHING.
Wow, Ms. Shouty! Gone off your meds for a while now Maria?
The subject of the Christ referring Himself as the Son of Msn was a common saying back then. According to Prof Robert Eisenman it was a.common saying like Duds, one of the guys, ect. .
A couple of thoughts: the gospels indicate that Pilate was reluctant to have Jesus crucified, and only did so under duress - then there was the sign he had put on the cross: "Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews"; John 19:21-22 suggests that this was a big middle finger to those who demanded his death. If I'm right so far, it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to think that Pilate would have allowed Jesus a proper burial.
Second thought: when Paul wrote "Last of all, he appeared to me", it doesn't necessarily mean his list was exhaustive - he just meant last of all on the timeline, ie. well after Jesus' alleged resurrection and ascension.
Damn
Some scholars believe the reason why Pilate comes across so friendly in John is because the author of John is trying to focus on the “Jews” as the enemies, rather than the Romans. As it reads in John, Pilate looks like he’s forced to kill this guy by the Jews. In Mark, it reads like Pilate kills him because he is threatening his King-ship.
He was probably just trying to appease the Romans
When Jesus is baptised and the bible has God saying “this is my son, today I have begotten/adopted you”. Could that be referring to making Jesus the king of Israel? As in that was actually about Jesus being crowned by God in a crowning type of ritual? They did say David was referred to as Gods adopted son as well right?
Jesus did not an adaopted son of God whoever that teaches such stupidity is a blatant liar nowhere in the bible says that? Jesus is in the Greek translation is called MONOGENES THEOS or the begotten God which translated in some bibles as the begotten son. Anyway, begotten God or begotten son does not makes any difference logically speaking, being the son of God who begot him he naturally is also a God like his father.
@@arielsantoria1825 so you said that there are 2 gods right now? The father and the son?
Bart is a media darling.
I‘m a huge fan too. 😁 Prof Ehrman’s talks so entertaining. I love his sense of humor. And his books are so incredibly well written. Simple but not simplistic if that makes any sense. Huge fan! 😁
@1D 1R A C U 1L A 209 !! Incorrect! Ehrman did not change his view on thinking what Jesus thought of his own divinity. His opinion is still the same in that Jesus didn't think himself devine. What he changed his view on is what he thought the early christians thought about Jesus. He earlier posited that the people thought that Jesus was the "mere" adoptive son of God which Erhman thought meant that his status was lower than a real son. So that meant he wasn't as powerful as god so then he couldn't actually be God. He just recently changed his view on this to say that an adoptive child, in the Roman empire, did not mean that they were lower but, in fact, meant they were higher than a natural born child because they were "chosen".
So to sum it all up, when Christians would say that Jesus was the "adopted" son of god, they were saying something even greater than him just being a natural born son. In that time and place, it meant something bigger and better. It did not mean a lowly step-child who didn't have power. When you were an adoptive son in Rome, you inherited everything from the father (power, wealth, dependents, titles)...even over natural born children because you were chosen because of your character. He admitted he was wrong and publicly changed his view.
That's very different from what he thinks that Jesus thought of himself with regards to being god.
Simple but not simplistic is the definition of: elegant.
WOO!
ua-cam.com/video/UH5C8hWsXyo/v-deo.html this is the debate that Bart referred to on the Unbelievable show. It's uploaded 3 years ago in case you're wondering whether you've listened to it before
There are lot of confusing and problematic texts that are clearly contradictory with each because most of these scholars are looking in Jesus as God Paradigm. Why not to try to look in FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD paradigm (as clearly stated in John 17:1-3), and treat Jesus as Man (John 8:40, I Timothy 2:5). When I tried to look at the Jesus as Man paradigm, every text in the Bible seems to be very harmonious with each other. The only remaining problems in Jesus as Man paradigm are those texts that seems to mentioned Jesus as God like for example Romans 9:5 and Hebrew 1:8. But when i tried to look into those texts and do some research, I always find some translations which says the opposite: it does not teach Jesus as God. So why this opposite translations exists in those texts that are seemingly expressing Jesus as God? It seems that they are intentionally distorted in some Greek texts for the purpose of proving Jesus as God in the Bible. It is also very interesting to add that many scholars don't agree with each other about the exact meaning of these texts, and this is the reason why others have different or opposite meaning translations in those texts.
What have they done??
Ask a Trinitarian "Can God die?"
Ask a unitarian to prove his beliefs
Or better, just look at the data and find the best explanation.
@J H every Christians who believe in the trinity
@J H so he has to become 'the flesh' first, then died(the flesh lol), for our sins? make sense.what a way to do it, this is the god who created the universe😂
Jesus having the power to forgive sin. Everyone has the power to forgive anyone else who's done wrong by them. I and my Father are one.
It is interesting that Ehrman points out the rare historical occasion that a crucified person is taken down from the cross... a wealthy, aristocratic Jewish man named Joseph asks for three men to be taken down... and one survives. Joseph of Arimathea = Joseph Bar Mathaias (Yosef ben Matityahu)?
Good point, I've never seen brought up before.
I hope one day B Ehrman will start reading the quran extensively as he did with the gospels.
Not gonna happen publicly..
You want him to learn classical Arabic too?
one male chauvinist hated this discussion (so far). it was interesting to hear that you don't believe that male chauvinistic statement in timothy originated with paul. it would be interesting to hear a discussion by you of which statements attributed to paul actually derive from him and which don't, and therefore, what paul's beliefs actually were, as well as who inserted false statements attributed to paul and what their motivations were. btw, i think you are incorrect when you say that jewish kings were sometimes considered divine. jews have a number of terms that they use for god, terms that derived from the biblical era culture for those in positions of authority, such as king, "lord" (i.e master, or having a sense of a feudal lord or someone in power over others), father, etc.. these terms are used in a metaphorical sense as terms to describe god. but most of them don't actually mean "god," and the ones that actually mean "god" are not used to refer to people.
In "Jesus, Interrupted" Bart says which 6 of the 13 Pauline letters are forged by unknown writers.
Bart said Jesus thought of himself as a king-like figure since he claimed to make certain followers rulers in the new kingdom. But Bart also thinks Jesus did not identify himself with the end times son of men. Isn't that a contradiction?
No. Son of man doesnt mean a god. Or king.. People erroneously thought the world was ending all the time bc of constant war. They killed people who they thought worshiped god wrong. you have all Christendom telling us the end is near. It's not. Christ just means anointed with oil..Jesus was A JEW. not a Christian. Christianity is a made up religion based on old Greco Roman ideas sprinkled in with Zoroastrianism. Nobody knows who wrote the gospels...They are forgeries and an emperor named Constantine , steeped in superstition, decided to use the religion to make his empire more united.that's how it started and then people made up things after that and called it the New Testament and the Bible. The Bible JESUS had wasn't the New Testament.
Not quite, but you make a good point. Bart's simply fleshing out the apocalyptic view he believes Jesus held. More specifically, the idea that after the end times brought on by God, that he (Jesus) would be a King in the new kingdom of God. The Son of Man is a figure who, in some circles, was thought to be a kind of "messiah" who would bring about, or warn about, the coming end.
8:56 Early authors might have been afraid to say that Jesus was God because they might have been stoned and they books burned
I am a muslim from Indonesia, thank you Prof Bart D. Ehrman. We love you and the muslim love you
Muhammad Abdullah
He said Jesus is not God, and that is true. He never said Muslim god allah is true! There is only one God and it's "Yahweh" so please worship one true God "YAHWEH"
That doesn’t mean he prefers your idea he is agnostic
Wait, a prophet thinks he is a king let himself be crucified? Well... why? Isn't better for him to just hide and go away until the kingdom come? Why go to Jerusalem and turned a merchants' table?
Wait a minute, christian doctrine teaches that Jesus was killed for our sins. In other words, it is par of the divine plan.
What difference does it make who did it or why?
Izzy Martinez The Christian religion would not have gone too far in The Roman Empire if the The Romans were portrayed as 100% at fault for killing him, thus the whole episode of Pilot 'washing his hands" and struggling what to do with Jesus. The real Pontious Pilot was a ruthless ruler who massacred thousands of people for rising up against Rome. So "The Jews" get part of the blame for pushing the Romans into killing Jesus. If "The Jews" wanted to punish Jesus for claiming to be God, they would have simply stoned him to death, as was the custom then.
Izzy Martinez
What difference it makes?
Well, perhaps you should ask that question to the Christians who up through history murdered Jews for killing their "savior"!?
It would be interesting to ask a person, such as Luther, what difference it made!
Izzy Martinez Greek invented the crap. Son of Mary Jesus didn’t say such foolish things
@@gorillaguerillaDK that was a later development. I always thought the stuff against the pharisees was based on sectarian rivalries
Because of the urgency to bring him down before sunset (sabbath) he may have survived the crucifixion. Jesus refered them to the miracle of jonah. As jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish... And Jonah was alive.. The late Mr Deedat's lecture "crucifixion or crucifiction " sheds light on this. I humbly suggest the genius Dr Bart Ehrman watch it sometime. Thanks for sharing your scholarship
If the story originated with women it would not surprise me. They are the most religious section of population for reason far more complex than the religion itself!
It was really hard giving up my beliefs, I also wanted to learn everything I could ( out of love) but I went to far. Just to be able to put my faith in something that has such a sketchy history. I really believe the Bible needs to be done away with, the psychological effects it can have on a person is harmful. I grew up believing the world was going to end at any moment, so I didn’t put a lot of effort in to my actual life so now that I’m 33 & just broke free from christianity this year I’m in a bad position. christians outlook on life, believing/hoping the world will end soon that doesn’t give them any motivation to help fix the world nor try to make peace happen. The Bible tells christians that peace isn’t possible on earth until Jesus comes back, it says when they say peace peace than destruction will come. With this kind of thinking a Christian would be the world’s worst enemy, there’s many more reasons the Bible should be done away with it causes more harm than good. Whenever someone says to throw the Bible out others always bring up morals, with out it they say & apart from God we wouldn’t know morals. I would disagree a easy way to show humans can come up with better morals to follow, would be to simply look at slavery and ask is it wrong? We see it as wrong today but that is only our view of it. How did we learn or think it to be wrong with out God or the Bible telling us? Since the old Testament nor New Testament covers slavery, but in the old God does speak about it but not in a it’s wrong kind of way God just lays out rules. this shows we can change views & make new morals to follow, with out being told so by a book.
book cover reminds me of the movie, "The Wicker Man" (pagan of course :-) )
I think, that when they are talking about "The Son of man" what Jesus thought about that, is more pure and empty speculation rather historical fact.
"Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
John 20:28-29
"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily. "
Colossians 2:9
"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him."
Matthew 2:2
"They came into the house and saw the young child with Mary, his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him..."
Matthew 2:11
"When they got up into the boat, the wind ceased. Those who were in the boat came and worshiped him... "
Matthew 14:32-33
"... They came and took hold of his feet, and worshiped him."
Matthew 28:9
"He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him.'
John 9:38
..."Let all the angels of God worship him."
Hebrews 1:6
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11
"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son. They shall call his name Immanuel;" which is, being interpreted, "God with us."
Matthew 1:23
"If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you know him, and have seen him."
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?' "
John 14:7-9
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it, and was glad." The Jews therefore said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."
John 8:56-58
"looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Titus 2:13
'"I and the Father are one."
Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?" The Jews answered him, "We don't stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God.'
John 10:30-33
"of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen."
Romans 9:5
"Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22:12-13
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1
"The Word became flesh, and lived among us..."
John 14
"For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6
"Jesus said, "I'm the light that's over all. I am the All. The All has come from me and unfolds toward me. "Split a log; I'm there. Lift the stone, and you'll find me there."
Gospel of Thomas, Saying 77
Correction, Gen 2 does not mention angels mating with Humans, it's not until Gen 6
I got the entire lecture from Great Courses ($25). Great course covering society and culture before, during and after Jesus as well as notes on revealing Bible passages. Also discussion of a Messiah and why Jesus did not fit Jewish prophecies. No one will agree with everything (some of which he admits is speculation) but the point is that a Jewish apocalyptic teacher was crucified and decades afterward came to be seen as god himself. Jesus would have vehemently denied it but such are the vagaries of history.
Basically he's come to the thinking after decades of studying what Ahmad deedat and the other muslim and some Jewish commentators been saying since Bart and others came on the Scene!,Knowledge is power,truth did set him free at the end....now go and find the REAL TRUTH.....
Krishna Krishna
Hare Hare
Do you really believe that few men could kill GOD on the cross?
qarohc
Islam was created by the evil Roman Catholic Church !
so the Pope can kill all the true Christians and Jews.
The Quran was a doctrine from the Roman Empire brought to Muhammad by North African augustinian monks.
Allah is the moon god !
Islam is a false religion !
and Muhammad was a false prophet.
Muhammad first wife Khadija was a roman catholic !!
she told him to start a new religion !!
and her cousin named Waraquah, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic, and the Papacy placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's adviser !
He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.
They both helped Muhammad to start this false evil religion.
Muhammad killed, lied, had 13 wives and cheated on them with Maria !
He was 53 and had sex with a 9 years old Aisha.
An evil man like Muhammad can't be God's prophet.
Wake up Muslims !!
Jesus Christ is the only way to God The Father (The Creator).
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
How the Vatican (Catholic Church) created Islam !
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican33.htm
The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera !
which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican.
During the Second Vatican Council, Dr. Rivera was taken deep beneath the Vatican to the Secret Archives, where all the history of the world for the past 2000 years is stored. He was ordered to study the methods of infiltration and extermination used by Nero, Diocletian, Constantine, Dominic, Torquemada, and Loyola etc., in preparation for the Last Great Inquisition !!
Dr. Rivera read many top secret documents that linked the Vatican to the creation of Islam and Communism etc.,etc.
The Prophet, by Alberto Rivera
www.spirituallysmart.com/the_prophet.html
The word Allah was put in the Arabic bible by the translators.
Allah is not the name of the God of the bible !
The word Allah in the Arabic bible was added by the translators.
The New Testament was written in Greek !
The Old Testament mainly written in Biblical Hebrew !
with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic.
Allah is the moon god !
Islam is a false religion !
and Muhammad was a false prophet.
Muhammad Abdullah Your very thinking is so simplistic and naive. The Incarnation for those who believe it, is that God took bodily form the way you or I wear a garment.
Al well you're wrong... that's what modalists believe not Trinitarian Christians.
" I & my father are one"Jn.10:30
✝️The Only Way.Jn.3:7✝️
Refuse Jesus = Accept satan👹Matt.12:30
Most English speaking people can't voice these words ONLY whilst their right palm is placed on the Holy Bible (KJV) --> I refuse to worship the devil 😱😪😱😪
You've just been educated by the PERSON Holy Spirit ✝️I'm merely a conduit for His shimmering brilliant wisdom 😇🤗
PRAISE JESUS!
Worthy is the Lamb 💚✝️
I praise jesus, he cuts my palm trees
its about The TRUTH. IF MUSLIM is WRONG, they will put on the HELLFIRE , BUT IF TRINITY is WRONG, Christian will put on The HELLFIRE Forever ( I repeat Forever). Read Al Quran that explain about What will you GET IN HELLFIRE. Astaghfirullah.
Trinity IS wrong because Tertullian invented it. Jesus NEVER said that He was God.
And if you're both wrong, then you've both wasted your lives devoted to something imaginary. Lets let "God" show him/her self and then decide who's right.
Ah, the word " hell " is NOT in the original writings of the Scriptures so try again
@@udina9713
And you drink too much alcohol !
Most people need an English literature listen and should read from non- preconceived ideas.
I like that Bart digs up some interesting facts about how the Bible was created. Then he would ignore other Ancient Documents that’s tied to the early Christ Movement.
In the Dead Sea Scrolls, the people of The Way knew Paul and knew he preached a totally different ministry than the Christ. Bart seems to like a False Prophet and uses Paul as one of his sources. Pretty sad.
ProudPapi I’ve just stumbled on the whole paul was preaching a different Gospel then Jesus do you have any video or reading recommendations on the subject ?
Think you may have misunderstood? It's widely accepted, including by Bart Ehrman, that Paul was teaching very different things to the church in Israel led by James. James's church was focussed on Jews with the belief that Jesus message was aimed at Jews. Paul never knew Jesus, and went away and preached to gentiles. Paul and James had huge arguments.
Jesus did not come to declare he is God. Imagine if he did. He won’t last a day before he is killed. Yes, his work and power is God like. Jesus said: I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the father but through me.
Nicodemos the high priest has connection to government officials and also liked Jesus. It would be natural that he and others have asked for Jesus burial. Missing the names of women that Jesus appeared to does not cancel all other appearances.
Apollo Twin wake up fool! Son of Mary Jesus Jesus never said he is God as he was not drunk like Greek pagan to say such stupid things . If someone can kill or injure god then he is not god but eating shitting creature not creator God . Bringing down Almighty God to weak human level is blasphemy
Apollo Twin not just Jesus every messenger and prophet claimed to be the way of truth and light and no one can come to father ( God) except through them ( through following their teachings) . It doesn’t make any one God
@imu70 Everybo an stop thinking the stories are real. None of the stories are real. They are real stories not history, for any religion. It's history of development of ationa, but God's are not real. Just bc a book says something does t mean it reflect reality at all. Stop. The claims of God are claims not proof. We want proof.
@@azad1718 what Father? Since when is Allah a father to anyone?
Btw, I assume you are a Muslim.
@@anitahyche1 one of the fictional stories I like are Dillahunty's which you obviously consume a lot. That's why comments like your are shitty.
Wow Prof. Bart' It is hard to believe you know any Hebrew; saying God became a human' walking in the garden.In Hebrew it says; "The sound of His voice Traveled (moved) through the garden." Not knowing the Hebraic writing and understanding is really the only thing I find disturbing in your amazing knowledge. Sticking with the knowledge of the Greek testament is awesome! Thanks for that.
Jesus became God just as Buddha did. Everyone, whether prepared to admit it or not, needs some one to look up to. If we remember that we are created in the image of God and likeness and knew to not consider it robbery to be equal with God, with this in mind, I Am and I and my Father are one. If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. John 17 Jesus prays to our Father that even as You and I are one, may these be the same; a restoration to the truth of " Have I not said that you are God's." Psalm 82:6.
Isaiah 46:10 says God will tell us the end from the beginning so try to laugh off this one - take the first word of the Bible in Hebrew: “bereishit - בראשי”. It means “In beginning.”
Now take the 6 letters of that word and look at each from the original paleo-Hebrew pictographs and they spell out a sentence:
Bet-resh - (spells BAR = SON) - בר
Aleph - God - א
Shin - Destruction - ש
Yod - Hand (doing) - י
Tav - Cross, timber, covenant - ת
“The Son of God went to destruction by his doing on the Cross.”
Also the shin & yod spells gift - שי
So you could read “the Son of God’s gift is the Covenant.
This keeps going. When God calls himself the Alpha-Omega, He is actually saying Aleph-Tau. Now read Lev 4:14 and the calf being sacrificed for sin. It actually says “I am the calf upon the sticks.”
Now ask yourself why the Bible starts with the Son. - Then ask yourself why you are persecuting God.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
charis128 God has no son unless metaphorically means Godly person as son of God . God doesn’t have to kill him self to forgive someone’s sin. He can in his sovereign power can forgive any one or not forgive someone and he doesn’t have to answer for that to anyone.
All of your stop. Religion is made by people. Not by any god. You got a prove a God FIRST. We will all.wait. A book written by MEN is no proof of God it is a claim. Claims aren't proof.
In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit
I think Ehrman is off on quite a few points. Read the Urantia Book for answers.
Why would anybody read an American book from the 20th century to get "answers" to what happened in Palestine in the 1st century?
Jesus isn’t just a historical figure. Ask anyone who is born again, he has risen.
The "Jesus" you think you know isn't a historical figure at all.
This computer sou ding voice is awful. Nice work, stop it with the robot voice in the intro
Are these guys Dutch or Swedish or something? I detect a slight accent
Everyone has an accent, it's simply a way of talking that points out where you're from. The only accent i can hear from any of them is an American one.
They are from Michigan.
Doctor Ehrman I believe your great wisdom will lead you to the way of Mohammed
😂😂😂😂😂
@@drgeorgek bro he said jesus is just a prophet meanwhile Islam say that too
How ridiculous. It is fact that the disciples and Paul were martyred for their faith. They established churches which is also fact. Also, the Book of Mark begins by calling Jesus the Son of God. Mark 10:38 He came to give His life as a ransom for many.
I don't think you've actually understood what he was saying at all. For example, "son of God" was a term that was used frequently in ancient Israel and was often used simply to describe kings of Israel. It didn't mean part of the holy trinity like in Christian belief today
@J H It only really 'meant' that by atound the time of the Council of Nicea hundreds of years later. There was no agreement on it smong early Christians.
Even if Jesus was resurrected, he still could not have exited the closed tomb.
So, Jesus should have been still in the tomb [dead or alive] when it was opened for the first time after Jesus perishes and had been lain there.
Bible put out two different stories about who opened the tomb and who discovered that the tomb was empty, but neither report changes the fact that the Bible says the tomb was empty at that time.
Perhaps Jesus was not laid in the tomb. His body--if he was crucified-- may have been left on the cross for some time or thrown into a fire.
But what if he somehow rose and exited the tomb? In that case, he would have walked to the nearest synagog and, ergo, seen by thousands of the Judeans and later by also millions of the Gentiles if Jesus decided to also visit Tyre, Sidon, Damascus, Cairo, Corinth......
But the Bible had him walk incognito for ca three days to hated Galileans even tho he came down to earth [Jn 6:39] to teach and preach only to Judeans.
Now we wonder? Were the biblical writers that dumb to come up with such child-like story or have told us the truth about that episode????
You get to decide!
He is God and proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you put aside presuppositions for a moment and read what the whole of Scripture (Old and New Testament) actually says you will see someone who knew the thoughts of men/women (Only God can do this), performed actual physical public miracles in front of thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people, and fulfilled hundreds of prophecies from the Old Testament. The fact that he rose from the dead proved he was God. If this wasn't true the Romans would have very easily proved this by showing the dead body thus making fools out of Jesus' followers. The truth is he appeared to hundreds of people. Claiming to be an expert on a subject and then using shallow/intellectual dishonesty makes for a very weak argument.
Ed Smith Trouble is, Ed, every strand in your case relies on prior acceptance of scripture (even the Romans!). However, it is undeniable that every single piece of "information" about God and the supernatural is natural (human) at the point of delivery. So what makes one human's interpretation (yours) "proof" when another (Ehrman's) is "shallow/intellectual dishonesty" and "a very weak argument"? Well, surely, it's the amount of evidence presented
. Now, who is more likely to be believed because of the amount of evidence? A professional bible scholar who has written textbooks and bestselling introductions for laymen, or an amateur like you and I who comment on YT? At least I recognise confirmation bias when I see it.
If you don't realise how absurd your post is then you are past saving.
The ultimate criterion of dissimilarity: what if the early "Christians" were actually the apocalyptic-messianic, Joshua-venerating, militant sect at Qumran? If so, that's why the Romans were persecuting them for sedition. The ultimate criterion of embarrassment: what if the synoptic gospels were written to intentionally embarrass and humiliate the messianic Jews? That would explain why the Jews reject Christianity, and why it became more popular with Gentile converts, and why they blame the Jews for the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and why anti-Semitism exists to this very day. BUT I GUESS THAT'S TOO FAR-FETCHED FOR SCHOLARS TO ACCEPT!🤔
I agree with many of Ehrman´s ideas. I believe that a preacher and miracle worker called Jesus or Yeshua actually lived in Palestine and was crucified by the Romans 2000 years ago because of his teachings. He may have been charismatic but I believe that he did not perform supernatural miracles and that he was not physically resurrected. However, I disagree with Ehrman´s ideas about the so-called empty tomb narrative which he rejects as a myth. I think that there must be a kernel of truth in this. I do not think that it was a later invention because Paul clearly believed in Jesus´ physical resurrection, and he turned from prosecutor of the early Christians to Christian missionary only a few years after Jesus´ death. He converted because he believed to have met the resurrected Jesus on the road to Damascus. Most experts agree that Paul´s conversion happened two or three years after Jesus´ death. If Jesus´ corpse had been left rotting on the cross and if a proper burial never happened, the early Christians would not have started to believe in a physical resurrection, since the early followers of Jesus as well as his detractors would have known that it was obviously impossible! I think that Ehrman is wrong when he says that the Roman officials would not have allowed any exceptional treatments of crucified corpses. But Ehrman cannot know this for sure! It is perfectly possible that there were exceptions now and then for compassionate or political reasons. The Romans were strict rulers, but they were also interested in keeping things quiet in order to avoid riots. The Jewish feast of Passover might have been a reason for allowing Jesus´ followers to bury his body according to their rites. This may have been deemed more prudent than leaving the corpse rotting on the cross for weeks! Jesus was dead after all, and as far as the Romans were concerned, the problem with Jesus was solved for good. A compassionate gesture cannot be ruled out. The biblical scholar Hugh Schonfield even claimed that it was an accepted routine to allow burials of crucified people who died shortly before passover. The fact that Paul did not mention the empty tomb in those seven letters, which are probably authentic, is irrelevant. It might simply not have been necessary to mention this in those letters, and we simply do not know for sure what Paul has mentioned or not mentioned during his long years and his travels as a missionary.
As to the empty tomb, there are many rational explanations for this. The body may have been moved for some practical reason or it was stolen either by grave robbers or by some of Jesus´ followers who wanted to spark rumors about a resurrection. This rumor might have spread like wildfire because it was a consolation for Jesus´ followers who must have been crushed, when their beloved teacher came to such an ignoble end!
Hugh Schonfield has even speculated in his popular book "The Passover Plot" that Jesus had deliberately synchronized his actions with the prophecies of the old testament in order to make his Messiah claim more credible. Schonfield even speculates that Jesus might have planned his own "resurrection" after his crucification in order to silence his critics with a triumphant return from the dead. In those days there was after all strong competion for the Messiah title, and a successful physical resurrection could make a big difference! Schonfield speculates that the plot may have been hatched because crucification does not kill immediately, and there are records of people who have survived the ordeal after they were removed from the cross before being dead. The historian Flavius Josephus knew about such a case first hand becaue three of his friends had been crucified. Josephus was horrified and intervened, and his friends were taken down while still being alive! One of them made a full recovery. But in the case of Jesus the plot may have failed according to Schonfield because of the Roman soldier who poked Jesus with a lance, which then led to his death soon after he was taken out of the tomb by followers who were in on the plot and wanted to nurse him back to health. For us this sounds like a harebrained and incredibly risky plan. But Jesus and his inner circle might have truly believed that he was the Messiah and therefore divinely protected. Everything would work out just fine! God would not forsake Jesus! Miracle workers of all ages use tricks and pious frauds in order to enhance their aura, but many of them also sincerely believe in their missions!
These theories are very speculative, and I think that Hugh Schonfield relied too much on the reliability of the accounts of the gospels, which is of course problematic. I can accept that Jesus might indeed have synchronized his actions with the prophecies of the Old Testament in order to strengthen his Messiah claims. That would be very sensible. But faking the death of Jesus on the cross in order to make people believe in his physical resurrection, is an idea which is hard to swallow. However, let´s not forget this: the idea that Jesus was really physically resurrected is even more outlandish - but the entire Christian faith is based on this idea ;)
I think that the narrative of the empty tomb cannot be dismissed as a full blown invention. If Jesus´ body had decayed on the cross for weeks without receiving a proper burial as Ehrman suggests, too many witnesses would have known about this inconvenient fac, and it would be implausible that the myth of the physical resurrection spread so soon after Jesus´ death.
Bart Ehrman's mother died a Christian and is with Jesus rest assured. Bart, I hope one day you will repent and live with the LORD too and see your mom again. God bless
He will. Bart is actually following the path of Jesus, who emphasized doing over believing. His personal blog donates all the membership money received to the poor.
His mother is NOT with the Lord. She is in the grave like every other person who dies and will not enter the presense of God until she is called forth from the grave and receives the gift of immortality to be fit to be in the presense of Yahuwah, the same way Yehushua received immortality when he was resurrected from the grave. Hebrerw's 11 tells us that no true believer shall proceed another into the presense of Yahuwah . We shall either be called out of our graves at the second coming of Yehushua or raptured if we are still alive and join the resurrected ones in the air to meet the Lord and then shall we be with the Lord forever but NOT before according to 1 Thessalonian's 4:16-17. The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is not Scripturally sound and needs to be discarded.
This is a funny book. Creative imagination and great for a science fiction trailer. Should be equal to The Wizard of Oz and is comparable to Harry Potter realism. You want a good laugh, buy it. Complete joke.....
So, you're emotionally butthurt by scholarly criticism of your dumb superstitions. Touche
Says "long fat pickle"
Theology, the study of nothing
Jesse Um, OK. However, Ehrman is a bible scholar not a theologian. Go look.
he became god by some scary coincidences. Mary got knocked up by a local yid-stud, a very stone your ass crime...the times were so desperate they actually believed the Angelic Sperm story....this had to seriously mess up the kid who everyone said was the Messiah so he believed it. like all religions, it's all bullshit.
paul was persecuting the early christians
then he made an incredible genius-like-plan by
claiming to be christian. that selfproclaimed apostel, who never met jesus in his lifetime,
spread lies about jesus. thats the christianity left we have today, nothing else.
whosoever even dares to believe in such paulinism should be caged away
how do you get away with being so wrong. probably because most people don't study the bible ..even most that claim to
Yaki Clone, Are you talking about Ehrman or some one who commented?
Yaki Clone
LMAO
Yeah, cause people like Erhman, who has not only made the studying of the bible a proffesional career, but who has actually read the oldest manuscripts of the bible, in their original language - they are the ones who get it wrong - but self proclaimed "experts" on UA-cam, like you, they know better....!?
OMFG!
Do you even know who Bart Erhman is or know his credentials?
tod beard you never read bible. Your priest doesn’t want you or other to read bible because you will see the contradiction and nonsense within bible.
Have you ever heard about Jesus being Hung from a tree . That's the African account
Well let us see you save yourself at judgement, when you won't have a God to defend you... At Yeshuas baptism the Father spoke, This is my son ... is the Father mistaken?
likewise God did not have one and only son , he had sons by the tones . check your bible
Since there is no god and Jesusis just dead if he ever existed there will be no judgement. I will just cease to exist. And I am fine with that.
Jesus is God.
His resurrection prove it.
So, who wants to live forever, must have Jesus into his/ her life....
Beautiful, scientific, enchanting speeches, like the above, cannot bring back to life a fly...
So...
But, God is good, you can always return to God and live forever, thru Jesus, one day before your due date.
Peace!
The Bible clearly points to Jesus, if you don’t believe in Gods Holy Book you have been deceived.
Jesus declined equality with God, but was empowered by God. Jesus lamented the rejection of Himself as the fulfillment of the scriptures. Because He knew it was not only the generation around Him, but also, for all the generations from then to the present here, today. Satan won that battle, he took God's people away from Him, ( again).
Jesus being God, is a belief that started in the first century--that originated from the disciples themselves.
No, The Catholics turned Jesus into God when they created their pagan triune god.
The disciples never thought Jesus was God; they KNEW that Jesus was actually The SON *_OF_* The singular, self-existing, one true God.
Blessings
Jesus didn't go around preaching he was God or even the Messiah at the start of his ministry. He was humble and went about his life an ordinary way and kept himself to himself. God really doesn't need our worship or our recognition. We are given a free reign to choose to serve God or not. If you read the Gospel you can't come to any other conclusion that Jesus is divine as he referred to himself as the Son of Man in reference to the book of Daniel chapter 7 verse 13 to 14. This being is to be worshipped by many nations and serve him and that his Kingdom will never be destroyed and it is everlasting.
If you read the Kenosis hymn in Philipians it says Jesus actually was God but emptied himself of these sort of powers (a la Clark Kent or something) while he was on Earth. In a way both sides are right he was a God but was a human while on earth (in this understanding.) This actually makes sense in terms of explaining things like why he pursued carpentry for 30 years. ehrman himself made the point about Peter and Judas and everyone leaving him in the lurch during the crucifixion. If they thought he was God would they have done that?
Maryah how can a son of a woman become God after his departure? It will not make sense to logical person except drunk, ignorant pagan minded people. God created mankind for his worship. God doesn’t need anyone’s worship but will reward who worship him and punish who didn’t.
@J H you believe that God in the heaven became a man on earth to be killed by men to save you lol...
What a delusional individual
That's you !
What do you base this statement on?
Jesus is a prophet indeed and God's only religion is Submission (islam in Arabic) believing The Creator is absolutely one and is the ONLY Divine being and no one should be worshipped, venerated, or glorified except God The Only Absolute, The Creator of the heavens and earth. thats the definition of islam. Islam believes God sent many prophets with the same message which is the greatest commandment: " OUR God Is One" which was proclaimed by Moses [Deut 6:4] AND Jesus [Mark 12:28-29]
Thanks for undermining the supernatural aspect and clear teaching about the vital importance of the Holy Spirit for any possibility of understanding the Word of God.
You guys are toxic.
Jesus did not become God, he is God and became man.......
Nope