Thanks, David! Very nice review. You absolutely nailed it on the "Need or Want" mechanical/electronic shifting debate. Very few of us "need" it. Like you, I'm very happy with mechanical shifting. I hope Shimano keeps making this groupset. I will definitely look for this groupset on the next road bike I purchase.
I too have a “old”105 on my 2022 trek domane . Keep it clean and it’s great. I like the hydro discs. I had up graded that year from a 2001 Schwinn super sport with Rolf rims and a mixed 105 set with ultegra crank. It’s miles better but on a ride it’s more than enough for me to keep up and sometimes drop a buddy.
@@andrewblakesley4202 definitely agree, as a commuter (along with most if my colleagues). People like us probably make up 90-95% of the cycling market. I've never heard anyone with a 10 speed groupset say they wish they had 11 or 12.
Thanks David for the review and explaining the difference between 105 11 and 12. I'm po' and in the market for a mechanical group set, you've really helped me with my decision.
I ordered the new TCR specifically with the 12-speed 105 mechanical, and it's been working like a dream. A well tuned mechanical groupset is just an easier bike to live with when compare to my di2 bike, especially for the longer rides. No more worrying about battery charges, and no more staring at the bike computer worrying about gear ratios. Just find the right gear and ride.
@@shinobusensui9395 No it doesn't, but it takes up your mind about selecting the perfect gear all the time. Which in most cases it simply doesn't matter, all u have to do is just rely on your cadence and feeling. I know u can just have it setup to not display the gears or the battery levels, but for me it just feels a bit insecure and maybe it's me being very picky.
I know some will scoff and not believe me but I sold my Canyon Aeroad Di2 and bought a Nerida Reacto with 11spd 105 Mechanical. I just got to the stage where I questioned why I was spending money on stuff I didn’t really need. I can honestly say that I do not regret and haven’t noticed the difference. I’m not trying to poo poo the electronic gearing (it’s great) you just don’t need it.
As someone who has ridden Ultegra Di2 R8070 and realised I can actually live without electronic groupsets, I know why you did what you did. I just encountered somebody else that thinks the same, he said electronic groupsets aren't for him, particularly having to remember to charge the battery every now and then.
Have 11 speed mechanical Ultegra and it shifts like an absolute dream. I’m sure electronic is a bit better but with how good my kit is it is hard to imagine much that can be improved.
@@scottwatson7844 indeed. That's why I top up at the beginning g of each month. Not because I need it, so I don't forget. Mine are 11 sp, only one battery.
dave, i just made the same leap myself - going from SRAM Force AXS XPLR to Shimano GRX 12-speed on my gravel bike. i was tired of Battery Anxiety and i had ergonomic issues with the Force hoods anyway. i had GRX 11-speed before trying the SRAM AXS stuff, and i really like the ergonomics so this felt like home going to GRX 12-speed. i personally love the 12-speed cassette spacing, although i'm using a SRAM XPLR 10-44 cassette with the GRX stuff as i prefer its' ratios to the GRX 10-45 cassette (i'm using a SRAM AXS flat-top chain with it too). this is definitely where i'm staying, and the shifting is nearly as fast as AXS.
I have mechanical Dura Ace on my Dogma F8, and Campag SR EPS on my Bianchi XR4, i actually prefer the mechanical Dura Ace - so easy and simple to set and work on. I have to take the Bianchi in for adjustments.
There are a large number of riders from past decade's that prefer the older style components because they are easy to maintain and interchange and use.105 the all round riders choice.
I so agree as an older rider myself. Zero interest in electronic shifting gizmos for my fingers, tho' I can imagine the ease of push-button shifting. However, considering that I'm not sprinting for victory on the Champs, I am convinced that mechanical is best for both travel and leisure.
I’ve got ultegra 12 speed DI2 on my summer bike and the 11 speed 105 mech on my winter bike. The DI2 is better, but not day and night better. Like if you have a perfectly functioning 11 speed groupset it’s defiantly not worth upgrading to anything newer until it wears out. I genuinely don’t notice any difference in the actual gears between the 11 and 12 speeds and I am running the same ratios on both.
Have both also and agree. I love my 105 11 speed full mechanical. I see no difference in shifting. The biggest difference I see is the ease of pushing the levers to change gears on di2. That's it! Lol
@@bonbonflippers4298that’s all I notice too, if you really try to notice the shifting is a bit slicker but it’s not massively better. the only other thing is I’ve never needed to adjust the DI2. On the 105 I think I quarter turn on the adjuster for the rear is all I’ve done in the last 2 years. Which isn’t exactly massive lol personally like DI2 but I think it’s more marketing hype than anything else.
I also have 11 speed di2 on my summer bike and 11 speed 105 mechcanical on my winter bike. I agree they are both great, BUT only when they have just been recabled and are clean. I'd say after about 2-3 months of winter riding my 105 mechanical sifting is much worse than my Di2. Where as they di2 shifting is the same, after years of having it set up and not having to do anything to it.
YYEEESSSSS!!!!!!!! I don't race and will happily shift gears myself and save $1000+ over electronic. That saving can go on better wheels to make more affordable bikes within cooee of the mid-range builds at far higher prices
I own this mech groupset on a stock Cervello Soloist. Over the offseason, I tossed and turn about upgrading it to Di2, but I was satisfied with its performance thus far. So, I kept it. I decided to put my money on better wheels, tires, and handlebars. I also put an Ultegra crank, cassette, and rotor. Maybe I'll reconsider Di2 next year.
Cannondale also currently offers a model with a mechanical groupset, specifically the SuperSix EVO 4. The model with the electric version of the 105 groupset is 1200 euros more expensive.
Hey ! In which country are you ? On my side of Europe, there is a 700€ difference between the SuperSix EVO 3 and the 4 (105 DI2 vs Meca'). There is also a variant of the old gen with 105 DI2 which cost 1000€ more than the current option with 105 DI2, supposedly because it has Carbon wheels and a save handlebar ? Seems to be used to offload old parts.
I have SRAM AXS on my road bike and always felt electronic was much better than mechanical, however just got a gravel bike with this 105 group set and I am amazed at how good it is. Like David, I would happily ride this all the time and cannot see the need to pay twice as much for the electronic equivalent. I also travel a fair bit with my bike and am always nervous the electronic group set will get damaged and thus I arrive with a bike that doesn't work. This also takes that concern away hugely
I remain mystified by electronic shifting. I’m not a Luddite - I have Ultegra Di2 on one of my bikes. Works fine. But the recent generations of mechanical groupsets (particularly Shimano) shift so well that I just don’t know what exactly the “problem” is that Di2 is solving. If you like it, go for it - but I’ll take a good mechanical groupset any day. Much more satisfying to use. And there are enough batteries on my bike already!!
Those looking for a rim version of this groupset would be better off with Ultegra 8000. There's absolutely no need for that extra cog and it would probably be cheaper too.
I love dogmatic comments like this. The good thing Shimano have done with 12-speed 105 is to add an 11-36 cassette to the gear options, so you can drop the lowest gear a little. YOU may not need that, but some of us appreciate it. I just wish Shimano would make a 46/30 105 chainset as well. Oh, and given how conservative Shimano are about the capabilities of their rear mechs, I'm willing to bet this new 105 would work with Rotor's 11-39 12-speed cassette. If only it wasn't £350!
@@johnstevenson2405You can try the GRX cranksets. Same BB, chainline is +2mm AFAIR, but that should be in adjustment range. Rx620 comes stock with those cogs but is heavier, Rx820 is nicer (Ultegra level theoretically) but comes with 48/31 (but I guess 46/30 can be installed as well). I bet both derailleurs would support it no problem. And if you want even more range you can get Grx RD, it will support 11-39 no problem. For mountainous gravelling I'm running 2 x 10-45, with Roadlink DM, but that is stretching it to the very limit (but it works decently well).
@@joseluisrodriguezvazquez6082people forget that 12 speed also adds Hyperglide+ which maybe isn't revolutionary, but feels nice. Theoretically you need Ultegra or DA cassette for that, though (Shimano decided to cheap out on 105 cassettes while even Deore have those cog features AFAIK)
Hi David, the big issue I have with mechanical Shimano is the using the brake lever to change gear, I have GRX on my winter bike after years of using Campag mechanical. I still have 2 bikes on Campag mechanical rim brakes. In winter Shimano mechanical is not easy to use in winter gloves and with cold hands. So easy to move both both shift levers on the rear change and fluff the gear. I also find it almost impossible to change the front mech with cold hands in winter. This due the large lever throw because you use the brake lever and to get the full throw of the shift lever you have to using the bottom of the brake lever on the the drops. Changing using the brake lever to change gear from the hoods is not the best at all. Whilst with the Campag this not an issue at all. I have changed to Sram Rival AXS in place of GRX on my winter/training bike because of the Sram power meter options and pricing. Shimano are so far behind in term of offering affordable power meters on all groupsets and also gearing options. Sram offer 43/33, 46/33, 48/35 as well a wider range of cassette options.
There is more that defines a groupset but shifting gear. Usually I shift gear once a ride and that is when I turn back home again in the windy plains of NL. I wonder for instance how is the stiffness of the crank, the brake performance and most importantly what are the real differences wirh Ultegra / Dura-ace.
2:00 Onwards. With all respect, this just isn't true. Campagnolo offers mechanical 12 (or 13 in Ekar's case) speed mechanical at Chorus, Record, and Super Record levels, even including rim brake options for each! And the same site you used for 105 pricing (Merlin) lists Chorus Disc at ~1044 GBP, not 1800. Yes, R7100 is fantastic value (such that it's hard to argue for Chorus' price), but that value doesn't need such distortions as are present here.
I suffer terribly with Artheritis in my fingers, and would love to invest in E shifting. The right hand side is ok but moving from small ring to big ring on the left is painful for me.
Just purchased this groupset on a Canyon AL 7, unfortunately it came with ticking noise, probably from the casette. Pity that I have to go through the experience of "fixing my new bike" and Canyon will cover the cost, but except the ticking, works fast, and I expect easier climbs with 11-36 ratio. Great review as always Dave. Thank you
I just bought a bike equipped with Shimano 105 Di2. I have several Shimano-equipped bikes with mechanical shifting, and for most shifts, it's almost as good as Di2. For me the exception is shifting from the small to the big chainring. I find that motion to be slightly awkward-- having to use my off hand to actuate the lever disrupts my steering (albeit only slightly and very briefly). It's a nit, but for me the premium I paid for electronic shifting is worth it. I'll add that the 105 Di2's shifting is superior to Ultegra Di2 from 7 years ago and adjusted for inflation probably costs less.
I recently got a new bike with mechanical 1x 48t by 10 to 46th. It is enough to cover all terrain from climbing and reaching 50kph. Due to the one-by setup you really don't need electronic shifting;it does not add any value or gain performance.
I recently upgraded my bike from R8000 Ultegra (with cable actuated disc brakes) to 105 Di2 and I switched away from mechanical for three reasons: 1, my handlebar is internally routed and it's a real pain to fit four cables through it - putting only two hydraulic hoses through it is much easier. 2, I really dislike adjusting mechanical front derailleurs. 3, Shimano mechanical brifters (yes, even Ultegra), especially the rear ones, still have a propensity to eat shifter cables. I have absolutely nothing against the quality of shifting you get from mechanical, but the above makes electronic shifting just a bit more attractive than mechanical to me. Since I was able to get the parts of 105 Di2 that I needed for a reasonable price (the equivalent of about US$700 all in for chain, cassette, derailleurs, brake calipers, and brifters) the upgrade was a no-brainer to me.
Thanks David for a thoroughly concise review on Shimano's latest mech groupset,this has been particularly interesting to me as I'm about to purchase the Specialized Tarmac Sl7 Sport which comes complete with this mechanical groupset. In fact I would love you to do a review on the Specialized Tarmac Sl7 Sport Dave.....now that would be good👍
I’d love to replace the Shimano 105 10 speed triple on my Cannondale CAAD10 but it’s pretty hard to find anything with rim brake compatibility right now.
I just replaced my old 3x9 Tiagra with 2x11 speed 105 (r7000) groupset with rim brakes. It operates exceptionally and no hassle anymore with the 3 speed front derailler
Great review. The only "problem" with mechanical/hydraulic groupsets, whether 11 or 12 speed, is that the shifter levers, have to be so large and frankly unattractive due to the brake fluid reservoir. I wish Shimano (and SRAM for their 1X mechanical levers) would move the reservoir to a central point under the stem, so the levers could be smaller.
I think it’s a great group set. I’m thinking of upgrading an old bike with it and maybe buying one for my wife. I have a canyon ultimate with 105 di2 and I think the mechanical 105 is just as good
Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical rim & disc has been out for a few years already. Far superior in every way especially when it comes to shift feel.
How easy to swap from 11-34 to the 11-36 you have as my Boardman has come with 11-34 as standard and for local hills I think I need the 36 but daunted about needing different chain lengths and re indexing?? I find it very smooth and don’t want to mess this up!
I have a road bike being planned, with 105 mechanical drivetrain. What are the pros & cons of using RX820 (GRX) levers on a road build? They weigh less than 105 levers. I have them on my gravel build & i love them. Please offer insight if anyone could. Cheers from Michigan USA
I’ve got mechanical on my road bike and di2 on my gravel bike and both are superb. I prefer the shifting experience of mechanical but the fit and forget of DI2. Oh and the full synchro mode is pretty damn good too.
A shame that Shimano didn't design a corresponding rimbrake STI for 12 speed mechanical 105. There's no ST-R7100, just the ST-R7120. They could release it for end-consumers only like the Metrea groupset.
i think the big shimano power meter companies 4iiii and stages can do a one arm power meter, i'm not sure of the core charge you send yours off and they send you one back or have to machine the arm they receive and then add the PM. but i do believe that sram has a very appealing power meter solution. lastly the big reveal on the bike being built is over the top and subtle, top marks sir.
Shimano 105 has always been the "enthusiast" level groupset. It's got the performance capability to support an amateur racer and the bulletproof durability for the Rule 5 cyclist.
Other than and extra 2 teeth on the back what does the 12 speed offer that is significantly better than the Shimano 11 speed? I run 11 Speed Ultegra and it’s flawless, I also use an 11/36 cassette from Sunrace on the back works perfectly.
Hi David, if i may ask: i have just bought a Canyon Aeroad ultegra Di2 and ride also a lot on tacx neo indoortrainer. Would you consider to buy a canyon cf sl 105 12 sp mechanical that i mostly use indoors while i "save" the expensive aerosd di2 for outside only?
If you can afford to have two bikes and one dedicated to the indoor trainer, sure why not, but there shouldn't be any issue using your Aeroad on the indoor trainer really
The pricing of the Ultimate CF SL 7 Di2 does not make any sense. Yes it comes with a powermeter and a different handlebar but, in France, it's 1550 € compared to 105 mechanical 12 speed. That's 200€ more than the difference between the endurace cf105 mechanical 12 speed and the endurace cf Ultegra DI2. The 105 DI2 should be a 500€ bump vs mechanical.
@@bonbonflippers4298For me, it's only cumbersome if it's integrated internal routing (passes through the headset assembly). Regular internal routing, I can still handle this one just fine. External routing? Pfft, piece of cake.
I neither have a support car following me on my long rides and I also commute to work by bike. I need to be self sufficient when I’m out so I will never be an, electronic, hydraulic or tubeless buyer. It’s becoming more and more of a struggle even buying used to find suitable parts and group sets.
Then you probably have no idea how all of these technologies work. Tubeless runs on my bikes (street, MTB and Commuter) for more than a year without any flats or problems (and we have plenty of gravel and bad roads here). Also was sceptical at first. But good tubeless tires with a hooked rim (tubeless) are bulletproof, compared to normal tubular setups. It sure is crap when components are not made for tubeless - this is out of question. Therefore I will never go back to "old school" setups - they are just less handy and reliable. Also. If tubeless fails on the go, you can still put in a clincher and go on. But once you tasted tubeless, you do not want any clincher anymore ;) You do not want to use hydraulics? Why is that? One of my bikes runs for years without any maintenance on hydraulic discs. Change discs and pads every now and then (which is much more simpler than on any mechanical brake) and the fluid when you feel like it (best is once a year, but it will also work once in a lot of years, also changing is really simple ;)). Otherwise hydaulics are more realible and safe than any mechanical cable out there. If you say you want have a reliable and self sufficient setup, hydraulic brakes are IMHO the most important step for reliability. Also thinking of the forces working while braking, it is the logical choice. Mechanical brakes are really a thing of the past. The absolutely only case where I would see a use case is worldwide travelling. As there are partson this earth where you are not able to fix hydraulics (Even if hydraulics are super simple things). Only for that narrow niche I really think that mechanical brakes have a right to still exist. Electronic shifting is something different. It is fast and beautiful. But it ads absolutely nothin in reliability and can cause problems if you forget to charge batteries (like I always do). Therefore I understand when you sta mechanical. Absolutely perfect choice.
@@b.b.5147 Hey thanks for the reply. I have a lot of experience of different bike tech and groupsets and would not have commented without prior knowledge but thank you for assuming I don’t. If I am out on a multi day ride or commuting to work I want something that is simple to fix on the move. This is something that I’ve had to do many times and it doesn’t matter how reliable something is, when inevitably it does go wrong I need to be able to fix it. For example I’ve had 105 hydraulic brakes start leaking half way through a ride and it’s been too dangerous to continue.
I will never buy battery operated shifters. I started riding in the era of friction shifters , way before indexed shifting. Modern mechanical shifting is too good and too reliable to give up and way cheaper, easy to maintain. All of my mtn bikes have sram 9speed , single ring, and i have a single speed . Once you've ridden ss the big pie plate cassettes look ridiculous. Colorado rider.
the biggest issue I have with mechanical is shifter cables breaking. I sweat a lot and it's very salty. before I switched to electronic, I would break shifter cables twice a year. Sucks to be 15-20 miles from home with a broken shifter cable. Even worse when you have a 2 mile climb and you're in the wrong gear. for me, electronic shifting fixes this one major issue with mechanical.
I had this the other day. Thankfully I could tell the shifter cable was about to go and was near to a Halfords. Being in the smallest sprocket for a couple of miles is not pleasant.
Performing surgery on my shifter to retrieve broken strands of cable is something I only wanted to do once. After that, I replaced my cables on a proactive basis whenever shifting started to feel stiff/sluggish. Ah, the joy of shifting on freshly installed cables.
I don't think they are? Just that the gap in function between electronic and mechanical is much smaller than they might have thought (with this groupset anyway)
Bought a new bike 6 months ago. Had a choice. Spend $700 more for electronic shifting 105 or “settle” for mechanical Ultegra. Are you kidding? Ultegra for the win.
It's not obvious to me why Di2 costs more than mechanical to be honest. But it would have been nuts for Shimano to kill 105 mechanical. I like your comment that 105 is just a name.
Good. Now mechanical groupset Luddites can stop whining about the unavailability of top-rung Shimano mechanical groupsets with rim brakes. Oh, wait . . .
Only newer riders would scoff at quality mechanical groupsets if all they rode were electronic. I have Ultregra Di2 on my older Focus but opted for mechanical Ultregra on my 2022 Orbea Orca. Both perform wonderfully. Added Hunt Arerodynamatist 44mm carbon wheels to Orbea with savings. Case closed.
Theirs not much point bringing out new rim brake versions as rim brake frames are being phased out. Big wheel manufactures don’t even make rim brake wheels.
@@Ryan.T89there are plenty of rim brake bikes around, It's a lost market opportunity for Shimano. SRAM uses now can upgrade their rim brake groups to 12 speed with Ratio Technology upgrade kit....
@@Pmor75Most new rim brake bikes are all low end alloy bikes. Even decathlon is phasing out its Rim brake models. All the new stuff is disc brake and as I said most wheel manufactures don’t even make rim brake wheels. The ones that do are either Chinese or small companies, or the rim brake wheels they make are low end. Ratio tech isn’t a SRAM product and you need to use third party cassettes with it as you can’t buy a QR XD hub wheel unless you get something third party. SRAM are also phasing out mech groupsets and will be fully e tap soon. In the end the majority of groupset are sold to manufactures to go on new bikes. Groupset manufactures are not going to invest in dead tech because the odd person might buy it.
Secondly I was referring to the existing rim brake bikes that are currently with 10 or 11 speed and their owners might want to upgrade them...My guess is that Shimano does not have the production capacity at the moment that's why they are only focusing on the the oem market primarily
Thanks, David! Very nice review. You absolutely nailed it on the "Need or Want" mechanical/electronic shifting debate. Very few of us "need" it. Like you, I'm very happy with mechanical shifting. I hope Shimano keeps making this groupset. I will definitely look for this groupset on the next road bike I purchase.
The “old” 11 speed 105 is more than enough. + power meter pedals of your choice.
I too have a “old”105 on my 2022 trek domane . Keep it clean and it’s great. I like the hydro discs. I had up graded that year from a 2001 Schwinn super sport with Rolf rims and a mixed 105 set with ultegra crank.
It’s miles better but on a ride it’s more than enough for me to keep up and sometimes drop a buddy.
and now it will be even cheaper as everyone flocks to the new 12 speed :)
I'd argue no difference in actual performance beyond 10 speed for >95% of 105 buyers
Right, if there were no price increase this would be good. But the price hike is insane for no real difference
@@andrewblakesley4202 definitely agree, as a commuter (along with most if my colleagues). People like us probably make up 90-95% of the cycling market. I've never heard anyone with a 10 speed groupset say they wish they had 11 or 12.
Thanks David for the review and explaining the difference between 105 11 and 12. I'm po' and in the market for a mechanical group set, you've really helped me with my decision.
I have the new 105 on my winter Trek Emonda ALR 5. It is superb and functions flawlessly. It is a great groupset especially for the money.
I ordered the new TCR specifically with the 12-speed 105 mechanical, and it's been working like a dream. A well tuned mechanical groupset is just an easier bike to live with when compare to my di2 bike, especially for the longer rides. No more worrying about battery charges, and no more staring at the bike computer worrying about gear ratios. Just find the right gear and ride.
I never been on a di2 bike, explain the part about looking the computer for gear ratios. Does it give errors on wrong selections?
@@shinobusensui9395 No it doesn't, but it takes up your mind about selecting the perfect gear all the time. Which in most cases it simply doesn't matter, all u have to do is just rely on your cadence and feeling. I know u can just have it setup to not display the gears or the battery levels, but for me it just feels a bit insecure and maybe it's me being very picky.
Just don't put a gear display on the bike computer. I find I shift every half minute and it's nice to look at that in retrospective 😊
@@JulianAndresKlodeYes, that's a great point. I find myself draining the battery by shifting constantly and unnecessarily as well.
@@nerdhoy well the half minute shifts were without gear display, just going by feel 😁 it's just the first time having those stats.
I know some will scoff and not believe me but I sold my Canyon Aeroad Di2 and bought a Nerida Reacto with 11spd 105 Mechanical. I just got to the stage where I questioned why I was spending money on stuff I didn’t really need. I can honestly say that I do not regret and haven’t noticed the difference. I’m not trying to poo poo the electronic gearing (it’s great) you just don’t need it.
*Merida
As someone who has ridden Ultegra Di2 R8070 and realised I can actually live without electronic groupsets, I know why you did what you did. I just encountered somebody else that thinks the same, he said electronic groupsets aren't for him, particularly having to remember to charge the battery every now and then.
This group set is on my new Trek. The best setup I’ve ever owned. I’m satisfied.
Great performance at a fair price. It is what 75% of us are looking for.
Have 11 speed mechanical Ultegra and it shifts like an absolute dream. I’m sure electronic is a bit better but with how good my kit is it is hard to imagine much that can be improved.
It doesn't improve anything and I have both! The only improvement is how much easier it is ti push the levers to change gears...
I’ve both and it’s not massively different. It’s a tiny bit crisper but not majorly noticeable.
The same. 11 speed mechanical Ultegra is nearly as perfect as to make no matter.
We need 12 Speed mechanical shifting rim brake options. No batteries, no electronics worries!
No battery to charge sounds fantastic! Love this bike David. Well done!
Well it’s hardly a big deal. I get more than 1000 miles out of a single charge.
Batteries on DI2 are never really a problem, you charge lights and Garmin more.
Charging Di2 is simply not a problem.
Usually charge my DI2 a couple times a year. Only issue is as it lasts so long it’s easy to forget to charge it 😂
@@scottwatson7844 indeed. That's why I top up at the beginning g of each month. Not because I need it, so I don't forget. Mine are 11 sp, only one battery.
dave, i just made the same leap myself - going from SRAM Force AXS XPLR to Shimano GRX 12-speed on my gravel bike. i was tired of Battery Anxiety and i had ergonomic issues with the Force hoods anyway. i had GRX 11-speed before trying the SRAM AXS stuff, and i really like the ergonomics so this felt like home going to GRX 12-speed. i personally love the 12-speed cassette spacing, although i'm using a SRAM XPLR 10-44 cassette with the GRX stuff as i prefer its' ratios to the GRX 10-45 cassette (i'm using a SRAM AXS flat-top chain with it too). this is definitely where i'm staying, and the shifting is nearly as fast as AXS.
I have mechanical Dura Ace on my Dogma F8, and Campag SR EPS on my Bianchi XR4, i actually prefer the mechanical Dura Ace - so easy and simple to set and work on. I have to take the Bianchi in for adjustments.
Just bought a 105 12 speed Defy...lovely bike!
Is that the Defy Advanced 2? Really curious about that bike. Seems like a great bike!
There are a large number of riders from past decade's that prefer the older style components because they are easy to maintain and interchange and use.105 the all round riders choice.
I so agree as an older rider myself. Zero interest in electronic shifting gizmos for my fingers, tho' I can imagine the ease of push-button shifting. However, considering that I'm not sprinting for victory on the Champs, I am convinced that mechanical is best for both travel and leisure.
Love my new shimano 105 11speed .cheers .only need to charge my lights lol
Great review David. I’ve always had bikes with 105 and this year I bought the di2 105 and absolutely love it.
I’ve got ultegra 12 speed DI2 on my summer bike and the 11 speed 105 mech on my winter bike. The DI2 is better, but not day and night better. Like if you have a perfectly functioning 11 speed groupset it’s defiantly not worth upgrading to anything newer until it wears out. I genuinely don’t notice any difference in the actual gears between the 11 and 12 speeds and I am running the same ratios on both.
Have both also and agree. I love my 105 11 speed full mechanical. I see no difference in shifting. The biggest difference I see is the ease of pushing the levers to change gears on di2. That's it! Lol
@@bonbonflippers4298that’s all I notice too, if you really try to notice the shifting is a bit slicker but it’s not massively better. the only other thing is I’ve never needed to adjust the DI2. On the 105 I think I quarter turn on the adjuster for the rear is all I’ve done in the last 2 years. Which isn’t exactly massive lol personally like DI2 but I think it’s more marketing hype than anything else.
I also have 11 speed di2 on my summer bike and 11 speed 105 mechcanical on my winter bike. I agree they are both great, BUT only when they have just been recabled and are clean. I'd say after about 2-3 months of winter riding my 105 mechanical sifting is much worse than my Di2. Where as they di2 shifting is the same, after years of having it set up and not having to do anything to it.
YYEEESSSSS!!!!!!!! I don't race and will happily shift gears myself and save $1000+ over electronic. That saving can go on better wheels to make more affordable bikes within cooee of the mid-range builds at far higher prices
Where's the rim brake version😊
where's the rim brake bikes? Not many brands make rim brake frames anymore...
I own this mech groupset on a stock Cervello Soloist. Over the offseason, I tossed and turn about upgrading it to Di2, but I was satisfied with its performance thus far. So, I kept it. I decided to put my money on better wheels, tires, and handlebars. I also put an Ultegra crank, cassette, and rotor. Maybe I'll reconsider Di2 next year.
I still love my sram red 22 mechanical setup, the shifters weigh 280g a pair.
As per usual, great review David!😎👍🏻
Cannondale also currently offers a model with a mechanical groupset, specifically the SuperSix EVO 4.
The model with the electric version of the 105 groupset is 1200 euros more expensive.
Hey ! In which country are you ? On my side of Europe, there is a 700€ difference between the SuperSix EVO
3 and the 4 (105 DI2 vs Meca').
There is also a variant of the old gen with 105 DI2 which cost 1000€ more than the current option with 105 DI2, supposedly because it has Carbon wheels and a save handlebar ? Seems to be used to offload old parts.
I have SRAM AXS on my road bike and always felt electronic was much better than mechanical, however just got a gravel bike with this 105 group set and I am amazed at how good it is. Like David, I would happily ride this all the time and cannot see the need to pay twice as much for the electronic equivalent. I also travel a fair bit with my bike and am always nervous the electronic group set will get damaged and thus I arrive with a bike that doesn't work. This also takes that concern away hugely
I remain mystified by electronic shifting. I’m not a Luddite - I have Ultegra Di2 on one of my bikes. Works fine. But the recent generations of mechanical groupsets (particularly Shimano) shift so well that I just don’t know what exactly the “problem” is that Di2 is solving. If you like it, go for it - but I’ll take a good mechanical groupset any day. Much more satisfying to use. And there are enough batteries on my bike already!!
now i’d choose the new 12 spd grx instead of the 105. Even on a road bike
For the lower gears - definitely.
Came to the comments expecting demands for a rim brake version. Not disappointed! :)
Those looking for a rim version of this groupset would be better off with Ultegra 8000. There's absolutely no need for that extra cog and it would probably be cheaper too.
I love dogmatic comments like this.
The good thing Shimano have done with 12-speed 105 is to add an 11-36 cassette to the gear options, so you can drop the lowest gear a little. YOU may not need that, but some of us appreciate it. I just wish Shimano would make a 46/30 105 chainset as well.
Oh, and given how conservative Shimano are about the capabilities of their rear mechs, I'm willing to bet this new 105 would work with Rotor's 11-39 12-speed cassette. If only it wasn't £350!
@@johnstevenson2405You can try the GRX cranksets. Same BB, chainline is +2mm AFAIR, but that should be in adjustment range. Rx620 comes stock with those cogs but is heavier, Rx820 is nicer (Ultegra level theoretically) but comes with 48/31 (but I guess 46/30 can be installed as well). I bet both derailleurs would support it no problem. And if you want even more range you can get Grx RD, it will support 11-39 no problem. For mountainous gravelling I'm running 2 x 10-45, with Roadlink DM, but that is stretching it to the very limit (but it works decently well).
@@joseluisrodriguezvazquez6082people forget that 12 speed also adds Hyperglide+ which maybe isn't revolutionary, but feels nice. Theoretically you need Ultegra or DA cassette for that, though (Shimano decided to cheap out on 105 cassettes while even Deore have those cog features AFAIK)
Hi David, the big issue I have with mechanical Shimano is the using the brake lever to change gear, I have GRX on my winter bike after years of using Campag mechanical. I still have 2 bikes on Campag mechanical rim brakes. In winter Shimano mechanical is not easy to use in winter gloves and with cold hands. So easy to move both both shift levers on the rear change and fluff the gear. I also find it almost impossible to change the front mech with cold hands in winter. This due the large lever throw because you use the brake lever and to get the full throw of the shift lever you have to using the bottom of the brake lever on the the drops. Changing using the brake lever to change gear from the hoods is not the best at all. Whilst with the Campag this not an issue at all. I have changed to Sram Rival AXS in place of GRX on my winter/training bike because of the Sram power meter options and pricing. Shimano are so far behind in term of offering affordable power meters on all groupsets and also gearing options. Sram offer 43/33, 46/33, 48/35 as well a wider range of cassette options.
There is more that defines a groupset but shifting gear. Usually I shift gear once a ride and that is when I turn back home again in the windy plains of NL. I wonder for instance how is the stiffness of the crank, the brake performance and most importantly what are the real differences wirh Ultegra / Dura-ace.
2:00 Onwards. With all respect, this just isn't true. Campagnolo offers mechanical 12 (or 13 in Ekar's case) speed mechanical at Chorus, Record, and Super Record levels, even including rim brake options for each! And the same site you used for 105 pricing (Merlin) lists Chorus Disc at ~1044 GBP, not 1800. Yes, R7100 is fantastic value (such that it's hard to argue for Chorus' price), but that value doesn't need such distortions as are present here.
I suffer terribly with Artheritis in my fingers, and would love to invest in E shifting. The right hand side is ok but moving from small ring to big ring on the left is painful for me.
Great review David.. mechanical all the way for me 😊 Pete 🚴🏻👍
Just purchased this groupset on a Canyon AL 7, unfortunately it came with ticking noise, probably from the casette. Pity that I have to go through the experience of "fixing my new bike" and Canyon will cover the cost, but except the ticking, works fast, and I expect easier climbs with 11-36 ratio. Great review as always Dave. Thank you
Thanks for a good, honest , down-to-earth review 👍🏼
Thanks for watching!
I just bought a bike equipped with Shimano 105 Di2. I have several Shimano-equipped bikes with mechanical shifting, and for most shifts, it's almost as good as Di2. For me the exception is shifting from the small to the big chainring. I find that motion to be slightly awkward-- having to use my off hand to actuate the lever disrupts my steering (albeit only slightly and very briefly). It's a nit, but for me the premium I paid for electronic shifting is worth it. I'll add that the 105 Di2's shifting is superior to Ultegra Di2 from 7 years ago and adjusted for inflation probably costs less.
My new Ti “allroad” bike I sprung for GRX 12s and it’s great. Did get a aftermarket 44T however
I recently got a new bike with mechanical 1x 48t by 10 to 46th. It is enough to cover all terrain from climbing and reaching 50kph. Due to the one-by setup you really don't need electronic shifting;it does not add any value or gain performance.
I miss that frame! Wish they still made it.
I recently upgraded my bike from R8000 Ultegra (with cable actuated disc brakes) to 105 Di2 and I switched away from mechanical for three reasons: 1, my handlebar is internally routed and it's a real pain to fit four cables through it - putting only two hydraulic hoses through it is much easier. 2, I really dislike adjusting mechanical front derailleurs. 3, Shimano mechanical brifters (yes, even Ultegra), especially the rear ones, still have a propensity to eat shifter cables. I have absolutely nothing against the quality of shifting you get from mechanical, but the above makes electronic shifting just a bit more attractive than mechanical to me. Since I was able to get the parts of 105 Di2 that I needed for a reasonable price (the equivalent of about US$700 all in for chain, cassette, derailleurs, brake calipers, and brifters) the upgrade was a no-brainer to me.
Thanks David for a thoroughly concise review on Shimano's latest mech groupset,this has been particularly interesting to me as I'm about to purchase the Specialized Tarmac Sl7 Sport which comes complete with this mechanical groupset.
In fact I would love you to do a review on the Specialized Tarmac Sl7 Sport Dave.....now that would be good👍
Glad it was helpful!
I’d love to replace the Shimano 105 10 speed triple on my Cannondale CAAD10 but it’s pretty hard to find anything with rim brake compatibility right now.
You can pick up 105 11 speed double, rim for a fraction of RRP, and 11sp is way nicer than the 10sp, hoods are a better shape and gears behave better.
I’ve seen a full 105 11 speed rim brake for about £360 including new BB and cables. I think it was on Merlin Cycles
I just replaced my old 3x9 Tiagra with 2x11 speed 105 (r7000) groupset with rim brakes. It operates exceptionally and no hassle anymore with the 3 speed front derailler
Would love to buy a Shimano 105 mechanical 12 speed groupset, but not until they do rim brake STI shifters...
Great review. The only "problem" with mechanical/hydraulic groupsets, whether 11 or 12 speed, is that the shifter levers, have to be so large and frankly unattractive due to the brake fluid reservoir. I wish Shimano (and SRAM for their 1X mechanical levers) would move the reservoir to a central point under the stem, so the levers could be smaller.
I think it’s a great group set. I’m thinking of upgrading an old bike with it and maybe buying one for my wife. I have a canyon ultimate with 105 di2 and I think the mechanical 105 is just as good
Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical rim & disc has been out for a few years already. Far superior in every way especially when it comes to shift feel.
How would you compare this groupset to the 'old' dura ace 9000 mechanical for example?
How easy to swap from 11-34 to the 11-36 you have as my Boardman has come with 11-34 as standard and for local hills I think I need the 36 but daunted about needing different chain lengths and re indexing?? I find it very smooth and don’t want to mess this up!
I have a road bike being planned, with 105 mechanical drivetrain. What are the pros & cons of using RX820 (GRX) levers on a road build? They weigh less than 105 levers. I have them on my gravel build & i love them. Please offer insight if anyone could. Cheers from Michigan USA
I’ve got mechanical on my road bike and di2 on my gravel bike and both are superb. I prefer the shifting experience of mechanical but the fit and forget of DI2. Oh and the full synchro mode is pretty damn good too.
A shame that Shimano didn't design a corresponding rimbrake STI for 12 speed mechanical 105. There's no ST-R7100, just the ST-R7120. They could release it for end-consumers only like the Metrea groupset.
So how does this perform compared to Chinese groupsets in the same price range?
Are we going to get a Tiagra 11 speed updated. One can only hope.
I’d like to see that but Cues might be Shimano’s future there
hi, can i use my 11 speed wheelset on this groupset?
I would like to see a new ultegra mechanical dB groupset
I am hoping to upgrade my 105 11 speed to the new 12 speed some time this year.
why would you do that? stay with 11 speed. It is absolutely fine. Better upgrade to an older mechanical dura-ace. That is really better.
Great video. There are many preowned mech groupsets on the market, though.😊
i think the big shimano power meter companies 4iiii and stages can do a one arm power meter, i'm not sure of the core charge you send yours off and they send you one back or have to machine the arm they receive and then add the PM. but i do believe that sram has a very appealing power meter solution. lastly the big reveal on the bike being built is over the top and subtle, top marks sir.
Shimano 105 has always been the "enthusiast" level groupset. It's got the performance capability to support an amateur racer and the bulletproof durability for the Rule 5 cyclist.
What size wheelset is this?
Other than and extra 2 teeth on the back what does the 12 speed offer that is significantly better than the Shimano 11 speed? I run 11 Speed Ultegra and it’s flawless, I also use an 11/36 cassette from Sunrace on the back works perfectly.
Did cover this in the video
Hi! Appreciate your advise if shimano 105 mechanical is better than grx400 on my contend ar 2. Thank you so much.
Hi David, if i may ask: i have just bought a Canyon Aeroad ultegra Di2 and ride also a lot on tacx neo indoortrainer. Would you consider to buy a canyon cf sl 105 12 sp mechanical that i mostly use indoors while i "save" the expensive aerosd di2 for outside only?
If you can afford to have two bikes and one dedicated to the indoor trainer, sure why not, but there shouldn't be any issue using your Aeroad on the indoor trainer really
My 9 speed Sora mechs with Ultegra crankset and pedals does just fine...
I have a bike with 11 speed 105 and I just got one with 12 speed Di2.
I prefer the mechanical but maybe I need to get used to Di2
Biggest advantage to the di2 is that you don't need to worry about the front derailleur cable...super easy to change chainring sizes.
True, but where I ride it's pretty flat so I'm always in the big ring, so for me that's not an issue@@bonbonflippers4298
how much does that bike weigh? Looks great!
Need v want. I am very much in the need camp and so mechanical shifting is just fine.
Really waiting for the CAAD 14
Finally Shimano makes what we really want: Mechanical 12 speed 105
Great video, many thanks
I am thankful we live in a world where Shimano still makes mechanical 105. And twelve speeds at that. Beautiful.
The pricing of the Ultimate CF SL 7 Di2 does not make any sense. Yes it comes with a powermeter and a different handlebar but, in France, it's 1550 € compared to 105 mechanical 12 speed. That's 200€ more than the difference between the endurace cf105 mechanical 12 speed and the endurace cf Ultegra DI2.
The 105 DI2 should be a 500€ bump vs mechanical.
Unlike etap and di2 this shouldn't be obsolete as quickly
My 86 105 groupset and biopace is more than enough for me
I only regret having mechanical once a year when I replace my cables.
Internally routed I assume? I love working on external cables on my older bike.
@@bonbonflippers4298For me, it's only cumbersome if it's integrated internal routing (passes through the headset assembly). Regular internal routing, I can still handle this one just fine. External routing? Pfft, piece of cake.
It is internal - though routing is pretty easy with cable housing. I’m just lazy.
I ride motorcycles where i do all the maintenance even an engine overhaul.... that makes me unbothered with whatever problems a bicycle have lol
Your nicest bike so far, gorgeous silver with the yellow bits!!! How much weights?
I neither have a support car following me on my long rides and I also commute to work by bike. I need to be self sufficient when I’m out so I will never be an, electronic, hydraulic or tubeless buyer. It’s becoming more and more of a struggle even buying used to find suitable parts and group sets.
Then you probably have no idea how all of these technologies work. Tubeless runs on my bikes (street, MTB and Commuter) for more than a year without any flats or problems (and we have plenty of gravel and bad roads here). Also was sceptical at first. But good tubeless tires with a hooked rim (tubeless) are bulletproof, compared to normal tubular setups. It sure is crap when components are not made for tubeless - this is out of question. Therefore I will never go back to "old school" setups - they are just less handy and reliable. Also. If tubeless fails on the go, you can still put in a clincher and go on. But once you tasted tubeless, you do not want any clincher anymore ;) You do not want to use hydraulics? Why is that? One of my bikes runs for years without any maintenance on hydraulic discs. Change discs and pads every now and then (which is much more simpler than on any mechanical brake) and the fluid when you feel like it (best is once a year, but it will also work once in a lot of years, also changing is really simple ;)). Otherwise hydaulics are more realible and safe than any mechanical cable out there. If you say you want have a reliable and self sufficient setup, hydraulic brakes are IMHO the most important step for reliability. Also thinking of the forces working while braking, it is the logical choice. Mechanical brakes are really a thing of the past. The absolutely only case where I would see a use case is worldwide travelling. As there are partson this earth where you are not able to fix hydraulics (Even if hydraulics are super simple things). Only for that narrow niche I really think that mechanical brakes have a right to still exist. Electronic shifting is something different. It is fast and beautiful. But it ads absolutely nothin in reliability and can cause problems if you forget to charge batteries (like I always do). Therefore I understand when you sta mechanical. Absolutely perfect choice.
@@b.b.5147 Hey thanks for the reply. I have a lot of experience of different bike tech and groupsets and would not have commented without prior knowledge but thank you for assuming I don’t. If I am out on a multi day ride or commuting to work I want something that is simple to fix on the move. This is something that I’ve had to do many times and it doesn’t matter how reliable something is, when inevitably it does go wrong I need to be able to fix it. For example I’ve had 105 hydraulic brakes start leaking half way through a ride and it’s been too dangerous to continue.
I'm sure its not going to happen but I would pay 105 Di2 money for a mechanical Ultegra 12 speed.
I will never buy battery operated shifters. I started riding in the era of friction shifters , way before indexed shifting. Modern mechanical shifting is too good and too reliable to give up and way cheaper, easy to maintain. All of my mtn bikes have sram 9speed , single ring, and i have a single speed . Once you've ridden ss the big pie plate cassettes look ridiculous. Colorado rider.
the biggest issue I have with mechanical is shifter cables breaking. I sweat a lot and it's very salty. before I switched to electronic, I would break shifter cables twice a year. Sucks to be 15-20 miles from home with a broken shifter cable. Even worse when you have a 2 mile climb and you're in the wrong gear. for me, electronic shifting fixes this one major issue with mechanical.
I had this the other day. Thankfully I could tell the shifter cable was about to go and was near to a Halfords. Being in the smallest sprocket for a couple of miles is not pleasant.
@@DanielEarlesterwhere you aware of it for days or just during the ride?
If you know about it, why not change cabel every X months? Why wait until failure?
@@DanielEarlester2 Cable ties and hold her in an easy gear
Performing surgery on my shifter to retrieve broken strands of cable is something I only wanted to do once.
After that, I replaced my cables on a proactive basis whenever shifting started to feel stiff/sluggish.
Ah, the joy of shifting on freshly installed cables.
With this price point of 105 mechanical 12 speed, is it just better to get a Dura-Ace mechanical 11 speed?
I would. Not only do I like the crisp shifter feedback, I also don't need anything beyond 11-speed.
Good luck buying it though as Shimano no longer makes it and buying it is therefore tricky in my experience 😭
You would be best getting the 105 Mech groupset as they’re really cheap at the min.
Oh yeah make sense, 2nd hand market would be the best choice to fine DA 11 spd@@davidarthur
Jeez those potholes were as bad as Northamptonshire’s 🤣
105 and discs, what's not to like..🤷🏾♂️
Anything else is purely cosmetic, do you need more or just want it..🤷🏾♂️
That Chain Needs Original BananaWax Wheel Peel Race Chain Wax, 30 Percent More Efficient saving you power, and will make the chain last alot longer.
Anyone who is saying di2 is no good is lying
Or they just want to have a bike which does not need any electronics on it. ;) But yeah. DI2 is really nice.
I don't think they are? Just that the gap in function between electronic and mechanical is much smaller than they might have thought (with this groupset anyway)
I love it, it's perfect
Bought a new bike 6 months ago. Had a choice. Spend $700 more for electronic shifting 105 or “settle” for mechanical Ultegra. Are you kidding? Ultegra for the win.
Personally I don’t want Di2 at all
It's not obvious to me why Di2 costs more than mechanical to be honest. But it would have been nuts for Shimano to kill 105 mechanical. I like your comment that 105 is just a name.
Will they offer Di2 to Hybrid Bikes?
All you need is whatever your bicycle already has unless it's a fixie
That would be a short video from David.
Should have made a 105 11 speed Di2 and kept mechanical 11 speed. Let Ultegra and Dura Ace be 12 speed di2 only.
Yeah but they they couldn’t see you new cranks, casettes and 12 speed compatible wheels.
105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace have always been interchangeable.
Old guys like old things, I am so surprised.
Old 105 is plenty enough. With the price tag better off with Chinese made Wireless group set.
Sorry absolutely love my etape wireless shifting going to the mechanical shifting on my winter bike makes me realise just how crap mechanical is
electronic shifting is a gimmick
👍👍👍👍
Looks like I’m getting priced out of my hobby 😢
Good. Now mechanical groupset Luddites can stop whining about the unavailability of top-rung Shimano mechanical groupsets with rim brakes. Oh, wait . . .
Only newer riders would scoff at quality mechanical groupsets if all they rode were electronic. I have Ultregra Di2 on my older Focus but opted for mechanical Ultregra on my 2022 Orbea Orca. Both perform wonderfully. Added Hunt Arerodynamatist 44mm carbon wheels to Orbea with savings. Case closed.
105 the group set of people. No rim break version? No problem, we’ll crack the code with hydraulic calipers 🫡
Theirs not much point bringing out new rim brake versions as rim brake frames are being phased out. Big wheel manufactures don’t even make rim brake wheels.
@@Ryan.T89there are plenty of rim brake bikes around, It's a lost market opportunity for Shimano. SRAM uses now can upgrade their rim brake groups to 12 speed with Ratio Technology upgrade kit....
@@Pmor75Most new rim brake bikes are all low end alloy bikes. Even decathlon is phasing out its Rim brake models. All the new stuff is disc brake and as I said most wheel manufactures don’t even make rim brake wheels. The ones that do are either Chinese or small companies, or the rim brake wheels they make are low end.
Ratio tech isn’t a SRAM product and you need to use third party cassettes with it as you can’t buy a QR XD hub wheel unless you get something third party. SRAM are also phasing out mech groupsets and will be fully e tap soon.
In the end the majority of groupset are sold to manufactures to go on new bikes. Groupset manufactures are not going to invest in dead tech because the odd person might buy it.
Secondly I was referring to the existing rim brake bikes that are currently with 10 or 11 speed and their owners might want to upgrade them...My guess is that Shimano does not have the production capacity at the moment that's why they are only focusing on the the oem market primarily
@@Ryan.T89 you can run either Shimano or Sram cassettes it depends on your wheel hub...on the Ratio Technology kit