*Everyone gets to come out on their own, agreed!* With one big EXCEPTION, any DL players whether in politics or in religion who speak out against or actively work to pass laws against the community of LGBTQ+, absolutely require outing, IMHO.
@@psiphiorg I think he's saying - everyone should come out on their terms except the people he mentioned that we should feel free to out at will (like Lindsey Graham)..
@@brentwhistler, ah, that makes sense. I had read it as saying, "all closeted people who work against the LGBT community, with the exception of one specific person, should be exposed". What a difference a comma or colon makes!
NO exceptions. ANYONE DL who "...... speak(s) out against or actively work(s) to pass laws against the community of LGBTQ+, absolutely require outing, IMHO". They are HYPOCRITES, and don't deserve the benefits of the mainstream community while using it as protection while they attack and do damage to braver brothers and sisters who're advancing the cause!
Jaks, besides being incredibly handsome, you are so kind, genuine, sympathic, and wise. I am a woman, but my best friend was DL and I witnessed the sadness and torture of his unhappiness. I consider this a PSA for everyone to be aware of the heartbreak living this double life involves. Thank you, Diana
Also, please be aware that you can have a lot of fun with people who are on the downlow and who are bi. Yes, there are problems, but if you are an adult and know what you are doing (having fun) there is nothing wrong with being DL or BI, or enjoying those who are. If you are looking for love and marriage then DO NOT have an affair with someone who is DL or BI. They are not going to marry you. I'm 74 and just ended my latest DL with a guy after 5 years. I will find another or a few more. He was seeing a girl and wanted to be exclusive. A week and a half later he was calling and saying he was single again and we could start over. NOPE! Have to have boundaries. I enjoyed him and as I told him during that week I went through all the stages of losing a friend. When you are enjoying the company of someone who is on the DL or BI, that this might be the last time you will ever see them. Enjoy the Heck out of them and send them away with a smile on your face, because YOU had a good time, them? LOL
I'm so glad that you are talking about this. In my experience many of the men I have met in the past have been married or with a girlfriend because they were insecure about coming out. Thats why the government's count on LBGTQ people is way off. They do not know how many men or women are in the closet. In my opinion the percentage of people who are gat is 20% and actually probably more than this. Of course this is only an opinion. Great topic. You are smart and are saying things that are not talked about that much. Keep up the good work Jaks....Michael from Michigan
@@JH-1008 I don't think you understood. I meant too many as it doesn't correspond to reality, not that it's bad. From my experience it's not even 15%. Perhaps it varies geographically.
@@VNuxion The Kinsey Report which has researched sexual orientation for more than half a century put it at 11% and that hasn't changed over that time, but things may have changed recently as discrimination has greatly reduced and people are more likely to be honest.
So u're not worried about the fact that he has a partner already who he's cheating on with u? Awesome!! People like u are the reason why most women can't trust men
How did you know one of the most painful experiences I had as a young queer man was with a DL Married Man that didn't disclose he was married. We "dated" for a few months until his wife confronted me very loudly and very publicly. I was devastated. I was lied to and used. I felt so much shame and guilt. It took years to be able to acknowledge this man was a predator. I often wondered how many other young men he had taken advantage of. Decades later I learned he passed away of AIDS/HIV complications. I couldn't believe it brought up all those old emotions and they poured through me like a flood. I actually felt sorry for his wife and family. It must have been a horrible and senseless way to finally be confronted with the truth.
I am very sorry that happened to you. I grew up in an era (1970s) where there were so many of these married closet cases. I can't imagine why guys would do this. Imagine "lying" to the woman, because that's what it is. Maybe they thought this would pass, or if they got married, this would go away, or if they prayed hard enough. Who knows? For me, it was obvious - I wasn't going down that road. But, I certainly ran into many of them. Even as a young child in the 1960s, I saw these guys. So many drank themselves into a coma. They couldn't get divorced. They'd sit there, drinking, waiting for sweet death to take them. I can't imagine it. Fortunately, young people today (mostly) have told the religious crowd to shove it up where the sun don't shine, and they love who they want to love. That high school jocks take their boyfriends to the prom is something that I would love to have done! Kudos to those kids today who can do that.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Thanks for sharing so others can understand. Watch out for older closeted guys as well who will never make the transition... will break your heart as well.
If a guy isn’t honest with his wife about his sexuality, what makes you think he’ll be honest with you about his HIV status, (or anything else, for that matter)?
One doesn't have anything to do with the other. Everyone lies about something. That doesn't mean they lie about everything. Besides you should be protecting yourself from STD's. Don't rely on someone else.
Beautiful message and delivery. Thoughtful and accurate. As a rugged man always getting hit on by DL guys, it is indeed exhausting and a waste of time to ever get involved with them.
I was hooking up with this guy for a while. One day I was walking out of a store while this guy and his wife walked in. He literally jumped. I had no idea he was married. I've had many experiences with DL men. Bisexuality in men is a lot more common than you would think. How you doin.
@@l.g.8028- Amen, sir! With just one exception *every* guy I've known who claimed to be bi was "on the DL" with their opposite sex partner, married or otherwise.
I had that happen a few times as well. The first time was a shock. But just kept walking. After that it was never a shock, just one of those things. DL and BI is a 'them' problem, not a 'my' problem. Unless they get caught and the wife calls. But even with that, it is still a them problem and not my problem. I can say after an adult sexual life of 98% DL and BI men, that I have never been hurt by any of them. They were always considerate, of me and my home. Some stayed over night or for a week or so if they needed to, and I let them with no questions. Pay for some food, drinks and with their body. Worked wonderfully. 🥰🤣😂
Very persuasive. I was married for many years, have three adult children, but I “knew” from the beginning. Unfortunately, I was born in the 1950s, and coming out wasn’t feasible. To this day, I haven’t made a grand announcement because I’m pretty sure everyone already knows. But I dated a DL guy for 20+ years, in the same exact situation, other than he’s still married. However, I wasn’t disappointed because I never had the slightest expectation that he’d leave his wife and sell beads on the beach in Hawaii with me. My eyes were wide open. Still, it is something of a waste of time because you are ALWAYS going to be at the bottom of the list. The funny thing is that now I’ve lost interest in him, and he always calls me - I just blow him off (bad choice of words). 180 degree change from the way our relationship used to be. Amusing last thought: he is a tough guy, sports fanatic, he-man…..and committed bottom. It always makes me laugh!
It’s rare that I find such an important video as what you just presented. Just want to thank you for making it clear what people are headed for in a DL situation . Self respect means everything.
Hey Jaks, ALL these "categories" boil down to BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF !! These guys aren't being HONEST with themselves and will NOT be HONEST with YOU !! You are RIGHT ON THE MONEY with Your Advice !!
@@EthanLomas This conversation is going to annoy me. Most guys under the right scenario and substances lol have tendencies towards bi sexuality . Im very straight acting and looking but our bodies are literally hard wired for homosexual sex. Girls are straight lol
Thanks for your insight and how right you are. I seemed to be a magnet for DL guys and experienced a substantial reversal of fortune through my association with one. 2additional observations: 1. "You don't understand how difficulr it is for me" is their common mantra. 2. After counselling my self esteem improved yo the point that I no longer felt 'less than'. Just DON'T get involved. Cliff from Down Under.❤
Pretty simple. It’s about honesty. If I can’t be honest with and about myself, I am not living. If I want to be free, I must come out and be happy and proud with myself.❤
I haven’t seen one of your videos in a while I think it’s because the algorithm didn’t find me worthy or are you worthy take your pick. This is one of the better videos I’ve seen on UA-cam over a number of years. I am now 70 years old and everything you have said is right on the money and it’s just what I tell other younger guys in their 20s and 30s. Most of us have fallen into the DL trap usually when we were young I was 24 and you are right it never ends well. I hope people take this video to heart I think the best thing you said is be with someone that wants to hold your hand as you walk down the street. I have told many people that you cannot build happiness on top of someone else’s unhappiness and that unhappy person is usually the wife and the children and eventually you. So thanks for posting this and I have to add that you are one good looking guy if I were only 50 years younger you have a really good day and keep posting your fun to listen to because you’re smart later.
The first guy I fell in love with at 19 was a DL. I fell in love hard, and I believed I could change him. That we would run away together. He even teased it. Talking about living together as room mates. Broke my heart. Never again. I found a good man and been together for 30 years now.
A few decades ago, I went out with this guy I met through a personal ad, and I made it clear I wanted a relationship. We went out a few times and I really liked him a lot and started to think maybe I'd finally found a potential boyfriend, and then he started hitting on me pretty hard back at my place and said he was married to a woman and bisexual. I was so angry I kicked him out immediately. He seemed shocked. He was probably used to pulling that on multiple guys and getting away with it. At the time, I was more worried about his having lied to me about the relationship part, which I was very serious about, but later I thought how glad I was that I didn't help him cheat on his wife. Sadly, he probably found someone else to cheat with though.
You appear to be a well grounded guy in my 20s I had my boss who was a married man suck me into a relationship thank God I entered it quickly and I wanna say to you that I hope you have found your happy ever after. I never wanted to be anyone’s mistress and it’s so unfair to the people they’re cheating ass you have a great day I’m glad you posted
That's something I never worried about. There were times when a wife suddenly called me, ranting about my phone number being in his wallet or wherever. I would always say, go talk to him. Once I used a great line, 'My wife, is she up to it again. She is always on that damn computer telling guys she is 23, she is actually 67 and we've been married 41years.' Then they think their husband is being a bigger fool than they thought. Later I would get a thank-you call. But it was never my problem, no one ever showed up at my door. I never set out to interfere in anyone's life. A friend told me about straight men when I was 23, until then I had never thought about them. I'm 74 now.
Ive been with so many DL married guys w GFs lost count. But they are only for fun and a good time not for BF or any emotional fulfilment. Some very memorable experiences and i just respect that it's between us and that's all it is no expectations. It's fascinating to me. Some I can see the shame wash over them after they are finished, but they come back lol!
Jack I hear ya, all that can eff you up for decades. Your trust in guys goes out the window, understand that all those sneaky cheaters in the Closet just want to cum, they don’t care one bit about his “victim.” I hope you are healed and Happy 🌞 You are Loved, hi from Florida 🌴 😎 🏳️🌈 🦩
I’m 87 my husband is 70 we have been together for 44 years and you are giving the best advice to confused and young people. He’s right find somebody to love.
I appreciate hearing this and reading the comments below. TBH, I am married to a woman and have children, but live with sexual attraction to men. There are no words to describe the years of anguish and anxiety I had with this because I simply could never put my family at risk. I have thought about "going on the DL" many more times that I care to admit, but never have as I don't have the heart to hurt wither my wife AND the man I would be engaging with. Readig this confirms I am doing the right thing, though I struggle with it often.
Buddy im totally straight looking acting and good looking like a hockey player., Im even right wing and Trust me ...explore now while you are young ! Please dude. Guys bodies literally fit together . . That is if you are attractive still they definitely do it
Thanks for sharing..been there done that. Your expectations are always tricking you into believing they will change. Run Run very fast away from these guys. You will only be hurt in the end.
Wow! I don't know why I have not stumbled upon your channel sooner. I enjoyed this talk and the scenery, both the backdrop and the forefront. Im going to catch up on SOME of your past videos (I see that there are many). I'm also looking forward to leading more about you, and maybe sharing some of my experiences in the comments.
I gotta say you are very comprehensive towards these men! I'm 55yo, out and proud, living in a country which legalized equality marriage only 13 years ago, married to a man and I simply can’t swallow the existence of these guys.. congrats on being so open!
Thanks Jake! So glad you have addressed the DL. Deal. I was a married man who struggled almost all my life. Did the DL scene awhile, but agree with you 100%. You’re not only handsome but very intelligent. Keep up the good work.
As you said, there are certain circumstances that we who have the freedom to be out can't understand. That said, being with someone who is DL is basically cheating with someone who says they "plan" to leave their SO, but can't right now due to "financial reason's."🙄 I can respect the circumstances, but don't pull me into some ridiculous "love triangle" because you have "needs" and have decided to make me your human flashlight. No, thanks.
This is all so true. Now I try to be compassionate and support them in their journey to be who they want to be. We meet for coffee and friendship, but no more, it is just too complicated and too much work.
I agree with you , i feel sad at the same time for those people who can't live an authentic life !! In fact, they don't know true love and real happiness.. because they are living a lie !!! I would say if the guy is DL and single, why not giving him a chance ? but if he is married or in a relationship , of course there is no way !!
I needed to hear this. I feel many people who go with DL men have daddy issues, like myself. Thank you so much for sharing your insightful thoughts. I want a happy life shared with a husband, not what I've been doing.
My own view is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. These married men with families get all the benefits societies bestows on people who practice that lifestyle. So they are sexually unfulfilled. Everything has its price.
OMG it's about time some one told the truth about these situations, Thanks Jaks - and "YES" hear him when he tells you "He's never going to leave his wife for you " - I know some of them can be really tempting - save yourself the heartache "walk away" - it is harder when they buy you a convertible
The Queer Community needs more men like you to be a voice. I’m not an influencer but I am becoming an advocate. Do you have email. I am gathering some information that benefits our Community.. thanks Jax
👍🏼 Your thumbs are great… buts let’s get in conversations.. proud of Christ and to be Queer. As we show real support the change will follow… ideas don’t happen without coming together. I’m not equipped in the art of social media. But I have a few pieces of the puzzle… let’s have a Christian / Queer conversation.. Mike Molinaro
I’ve had experience with this with one of my best friends. Everything in this video is absolutely correct. It was a ton of work. Additionally, down low men typically don’t always know how to keep themselves up on cleanliness.
Handsome young man! "Ruin peoples marriages", his selfish indulgence took care of that, yes just don't humor DL or discrete it's already on shaky foundations.
Some of us had to be married to women first in order to fully become self aware of our own gayness. I was married to two women before becoming aware I preferred men. This was my experience even though I was born in San Francisco to a liberal family 🌈
Hi Jaks very well said. Your video popped up on my feed and I’m glad it did. I would say 80% of men that have came onto me is married or just “straight” It gets old! I live in Indiana which is a very conservative family oriented town. So there’s nothing here for gays. therefore I’m single. I just subscribed By the way, you are a very handsome man 😉
I was a domestic partner with my first. 26 years. He left his laptop open. Email after email from guys he was meeting on the "DL". I was the reason for the DL. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Luckily we were no longer intimate, his choice. I say lucky because I was probably spared STDs or worse. Needless to say, I confronted him, and shortly thereafter he was in my rear view mirror. 2 months later, I met the love of my life, so it worked out for me!
Beautiful. I read a book years ago where it read, and I quote, “Homosexuals go from one cock to the next looking for the perfect one, but the search (sex hookups) never ends and they end up alone old men, or dead of AIDS.” It could have been Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask. As I remember Homo was a one page chapter. I too found Mr. Right 😘
I wish you were around when I was young I've always been attracted to the DL men needless to say it leaves you empty and hollow and your affections are never truly reciprocated and you become a convenience basically all you are is a booty call at least that's been my experience.
Wow. This is the first video of yours I've seen, so not a lot of evidence on which to base the following statement, but you seem to be a very well-balanced guy. Thanks for putting this video out there.
You’re awesome…so glad this video showed up in my feed! You speak the truth, my friend…and I unfortunately speak from 20+ years of experience dealing with “straight” guys. They (and their associated baggage) can be problematic, to be sure. Well said!
I once had a thing with a DL man I meet on a fishing trip in in the late 1970's and towards the end of the relationship I spent the night at his place in the second bedroom while hie "wife" was in the main bedroom the catch was they were both on some sort of visa where they could live in Australia but had to go back to their respective homeland. The guy went to Scotland and use to send me a postacard
I had the same issue in my 20s. I got so annoyed mainly be because they were just not being honest with me. I steered clear of them. Now it doesn’t matter to me personally because I am in long term relationship.
I so agree with you. I am so sorry for all in this mess. Back in 1990 I was once married. You are angry. I get it. Then when I could add DL, I woke up. While married to a woman and we had children I had relationships with 4 men. The last one I even had over to dinner to meet my family. It hurt so much to be lying to all them. I moved out. Told the truth to her. Got right with all.
…solid advice for all involved or who might become involved in “mixed” hetero/homo relationships. Be careful to distinguish between merely sexual connections and meaningful life relationships … definitely excellent advice…❤ … you did mention that one (especially those who have made commitments to heterosexual marriages and family rearing) should honor his/her commitments … at least to their completion and the partners involved have decided to end their mutual heterosexual commitments to each other and the rearing of children…😊
Thank you Jaks, for saying what I have known all along,you have summed up everything, that unfortunately most men are in denial of when it comes to thier facing thier fears of thier own truth, because living in denial doesn't hurt,only the truth
I've been around the block enough to know, and have friends who in their ways have also learned: he's never going to leave his wife/gf for you (the same thing goes for ladies)!
Articulate and thoughtful. There is a big difference between people that are brought up in a rural community and those in the large cities, in my opinion. Good job Jaks!
@@BA-ic9uh acting straight is hot as F if you have fun With it. The guy who made this video might be a lil bitter bout straight acting guys but maybe he was making it all about himself instead of making it about them ! lol which is literally the definition of love
If they are in a relationship, I'd say you should stay away from a cheater. Someone who will cheat on a girlfriend or wife with you are not going to be reliable partners. And Jaks, there are bisexual people as well.
Very well-said and civil regarding this subpopulation, but I think one thing to note is that usually, from my observation, is that majority of the time, most men who identify as DL/straight who engage with other men sexually seek the very same men who are in their position. I’m wondering if Jaks lives in an area where such men are so rare and far in between that they can only access out-men more so than those who are also in their position. This is why you’ll usually see DL men’s profiles say they’re only seeking married, DL men, and I think they if they do indicate that they’re openly straight in their profile, it’s very likely that they’re trying to attract like-minded men because then there won’t be a conflict of interest, AKA they’ll know what each other wants out of the sexual engagement with no strings attached; they get what they want without jeopardizing their public life. Sorry, just wanted to add this!
I don't completely agree with you because some of these guys might be bisexual, too. It doesn't mean DL men are all closeted gays. They can be closeted bisexuals. I was with a guy like that and he was upfront about his situation. He wasn't married at the time, but he was engaged for 2 years. We "dated" for around 4 months, but I ended it because I started having more deep feelings for him. I heard years later that he indeed got married and has 2 kids now. I know he won't be completely happy though staying only within his marriage.
This video popped up on the UA-cam algorithm..... Funny never really knew White Queenz talk about DL men 😂.... Just comical hearing them use our dialect 😳
Love this video. Thanks for posting. Been there, done that. For better or worse, it's hard to avoid this phenomenon in the homosexual demimonde. Fortunately for me, I was still young and very resilient, and had the sound intuition to end it before it got too far. In my own view, the bottom line is this: The abbreviation "DL" is just the new slang term for what we used to call "closet cases" and those guys don't give a $#!+ about you - they never will because they can't. They're utterly selfish. You are nothing more to them - and never will be anything more - than The Other Woman. I suspect that the only hope for successfully negotiating this type of association lies in keeping your own expectations down to the bare minimum. In other words, you're nothing but f***-buddies, or little more than that. Now, if you're cool with that and are prepared to assume the other risks that Jaks Attacks mentions in this video; well, okay. But you should understand that, even in your best moments with a DL, you're "friendship" is based on a lie. I would meditate on this fact for a while.
I think there is another category of men who are open to those who ask but don't like to advertise. If you have a very fundamentalist or very adamantly homophobic family, and they know and you know they know anyways, it just can be very uncomfortable for them in their situation, and there can be also a risk that if you are too open, you will be cutoff and unable to help your family in other ways. It can be a selfless act if you thinks it's best for them, even if it's more pain for you.
👑🎩👊🏾🌈👏🏾👏🏾 Its so refreshing to hear someone speak on this issue in a fair and adult manner ! I have only attracted that kind of guy . So I've had to educated mysel both emotionally and literally . Trying to have more compassion...for the guys . Lets face it , we are all working through issues that at " the end of the day " call for love , compassion and understanding ❤️🙏🏾
Hey jaks your awesome. So we'll put together. Keep up with what your doing. Your so right about the dl guys. Keep doing what your doing. Your very informative.
Tired of being in the dating pool… seems like everyone is either partnered, on the DL, open relationship, cheating, or just plain playing the field with one night stands (or 2). Would love to settle down and find a guy like you for a partner and a best friend! There’s slim Pickens of decent available men in Ohio.
Hi I feel the same way hanks for sharing I’m about 25 miles south of St. Louis, older guy very down to earth,loves to go rv camping , enjoys going to the lakes dog dad no smoker, Have a great week
Sage advice for both sides of the spectrum. With the suicide rate at it's highest level EVER, Americans need to take a step back & reevaluate our self worth. Relationships are so much more than sex... sleeping with someone you don't know or value is a waste of time & loss of pearls. ❤️🙏
I read an interesting book on this subject which gives some insight into the lives of DL men. "Still Straight - Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America", by Tony Silva. According to Silva's research, some straight-identifying men in rural America engage in sexual relationships with other men while still strongly identifying with straight culture, due to factors like bonding with other men in a masculine way, avoiding emotional attachment with women, or viewing it as a more acceptable form of extramarital behavior.
I don’t care how someone defines himself. I *DO* care if they are making decisions for themselves that also affect and may hurt others; it’s not easy coming out, but please don’t take other people down with your emotional baggage.
As a closeted person I agree that most cases we won’t come out for you, or leave our families for you, but at least in my case, I would totally defend you if something goes down. It would be better for everyone involved if DL men just stuck with other DL men.
![[free] Jolagreen23 x la fève type beat ~ casser ta porte](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cxLnB6MEiZM/mqdefault.jpg)
Never settle for being someone's secret.
@@biguy47905 why not it's fun
*Everyone gets to come out on their own, agreed!*
With one big EXCEPTION, any DL players whether in politics or in religion who speak out against or actively work to pass laws against the community of LGBTQ+, absolutely require outing, IMHO.
Who is the exception?
@@psiphiorg I think he's saying - everyone should come out on their terms except the people he mentioned that we should feel free to out at will (like Lindsey Graham)..
@@brentwhistler, ah, that makes sense. I had read it as saying, "all closeted people who work against the LGBT community, with the exception of one specific person, should be exposed". What a difference a comma or colon makes!
Absolutely
NO exceptions. ANYONE DL who "...... speak(s) out against or actively work(s) to pass laws against the community of LGBTQ+, absolutely require outing, IMHO". They are HYPOCRITES, and don't deserve the benefits of the mainstream community while using it as protection while they attack and do damage to braver brothers and sisters who're advancing the cause!
Jaks, besides being incredibly handsome, you are so kind, genuine, sympathic, and wise. I am a woman, but my best friend was DL and I witnessed the sadness and torture of his unhappiness. I consider this a PSA for everyone to be aware of the heartbreak living this double life involves. Thank you, Diana
Damn . What a nice comment .
Also, please be aware that you can have a lot of fun with people who are on the downlow and who are bi. Yes, there are problems, but if you are an adult and know what you are doing (having fun) there is nothing wrong with being DL or BI, or enjoying those who are. If you are looking for love and marriage then DO NOT have an affair with someone who is DL or BI. They are not going to marry you. I'm 74 and just ended my latest DL with a guy after 5 years. I will find another or a few more. He was seeing a girl and wanted to be exclusive. A week and a half later he was calling and saying he was single again and we could start over. NOPE! Have to have boundaries. I enjoyed him and as I told him during that week I went through all the stages of losing a friend. When you are enjoying the company of someone who is on the DL or BI, that this might be the last time you will ever see them. Enjoy the Heck out of them and send them away with a smile on your face, because YOU had a good time, them? LOL
I'm so glad that you are talking about this. In my experience many of the men I have met in the past have been married or with a girlfriend because they were insecure about coming out. Thats why the government's count on LBGTQ people is way off. They do not know how many men or women are in the closet. In my opinion the percentage of people who are gat is 20% and actually probably more than this. Of course this is only an opinion. Great topic. You are smart and are saying things that are not talked about that much. Keep up the good work Jaks....Michael from Michigan
20% means one in every 5 men. It's too many I think. 10% would be closer in my opinion.
@@JH-1008 I don't think you understood. I meant too many as it doesn't correspond to reality, not that it's bad. From my experience it's not even 15%. Perhaps it varies geographically.
@@VNuxion The Kinsey Report which has researched sexual orientation for more than half a century put it at 11% and that hasn't changed over that time, but things may have changed recently as discrimination has greatly reduced and people are more likely to be honest.
Why are you with a guy with a wife or gf? You’re just as complicit in the cheating 💀
@@xeganxerxes4319 I am single. I am talking about the past when I was young and did not realize that married men did this
My issue with being "the other man" is that it's way too much work. It's always setting up a meet and then it being canceled. To hell with that.
For sure !
You're not worried about dating someone who is patently and innately deceitful then , i.e. cheating on their partner ?
Not all do that, wanna coffee lol. I’m a bit far though.
@@samuel56551what if you’re just curious about the sex? Especially if these dl men are hitting on you?
So u're not worried about the fact that he has a partner already who he's cheating on with u? Awesome!! People like u are the reason why most women can't trust men
How did you know one of the most painful experiences I had as a young queer man was with a DL Married Man that didn't disclose he was married. We "dated" for a few months until his wife confronted me very loudly and very publicly. I was devastated. I was lied to and used. I felt so much shame and guilt. It took years to be able to acknowledge this man was a predator. I often wondered how many other young men he had taken advantage of. Decades later I learned he passed away of AIDS/HIV complications. I couldn't believe it brought up all those old emotions and they poured through me like a flood. I actually felt sorry for his wife and family. It must have been a horrible and senseless way to finally be confronted with the truth.
I am very sorry that happened to you. I grew up in an era (1970s) where there were so many of these married closet cases. I can't imagine why guys would do this. Imagine "lying" to the woman, because that's what it is. Maybe they thought this would pass, or if they got married, this would go away, or if they prayed hard enough. Who knows?
For me, it was obvious - I wasn't going down that road. But, I certainly ran into many of them. Even as a young child in the 1960s, I saw these guys. So many drank themselves into a coma. They couldn't get divorced. They'd sit there, drinking, waiting for sweet death to take them. I can't imagine it. Fortunately, young people today (mostly) have told the religious crowd to shove it up where the sun don't shine, and they love who they want to love. That high school jocks take their boyfriends to the prom is something that I would love to have done! Kudos to those kids today who can do that.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Thanks for sharing so others can understand. Watch out for older closeted guys as well who will never make the transition... will break your heart as well.
So you want to be a victim of a discrete married man. Well, you've had your drama now get over it. He was never going to leave his family for you.
@@stirlingmoss9637 Wow, did you even read that the poster stated he didn't know the guy was on the DL before jumping to your judgmental conclusion.
sad... if he would have gotten tested and gotten treatment he wouldn't have died...
If a guy isn’t honest with his wife about his sexuality, what makes you think he’ll be honest with you about his HIV status, (or anything else, for that matter)?
💯
One doesn't have anything to do with the other.
Everyone lies about something. That doesn't mean they lie about everything.
Besides you should be protecting yourself from STD's. Don't rely on someone else.
Yes!!! You go!!!@@shawnsg
@@shawnsgthis is a cope
@@natatattful it's reality.
Thank you. You have spoken a truth that all men need to hear. The hurt people go through with DL. Is very dangerous for all.
Beautiful message and delivery. Thoughtful and accurate. As a rugged man always getting hit on by DL guys, it is indeed exhausting and a waste of time to ever get involved with them.
I was hooking up with this guy for a while. One day I was walking out of a store while this guy and his wife walked in. He literally jumped. I had no idea he was married. I've had many experiences with DL men. Bisexuality in men is a lot more common than you would think. How you doin.
DL is not the same as bi-sexual. Bi-sexual men are just as emotionally available with either sex.
@@daijinjim2806 The Bi men that I knew kept their man lovin side on the DL Not saying that was right or wrong. Just saying they were what...DL
@@daijinjim2806…not if they are married or living a relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
@@l.g.8028- Amen, sir! With just one exception *every* guy I've known who claimed to be bi was "on the DL" with their opposite sex partner, married or otherwise.
I had that happen a few times as well. The first time was a shock. But just kept walking. After that it was never a shock, just one of those things. DL and BI is a 'them' problem, not a 'my' problem. Unless they get caught and the wife calls. But even with that, it is still a them problem and not my problem. I can say after an adult sexual life of 98% DL and BI men, that I have never been hurt by any of them. They were always considerate, of me and my home. Some stayed over night or for a week or so if they needed to, and I let them with no questions. Pay for some food, drinks and with their body. Worked wonderfully. 🥰🤣😂
Def want to hear the "friend's dad" story!
yes and if the friend knows.
I have a lot of mad respect for the fact that you addressed both parties involved🤝🤝
Very persuasive. I was married for many years, have three adult children, but I “knew” from the beginning. Unfortunately, I was born in the 1950s, and coming out wasn’t feasible. To this day, I haven’t made a grand announcement because I’m pretty sure everyone already knows. But I dated a DL guy for 20+ years, in the same exact situation, other than he’s still married. However, I wasn’t disappointed because I never had the slightest expectation that he’d leave his wife and sell beads on the beach in Hawaii with me. My eyes were wide open. Still, it is something of a waste of time because you are ALWAYS going to be at the bottom of the list. The funny thing is that now I’ve lost interest in him, and he always calls me - I just blow him off (bad choice of words). 180 degree change from the way our relationship used to be. Amusing last thought: he is a tough guy, sports fanatic, he-man…..and committed bottom. It always makes me laugh!
I so needed this years ago, I wasted/waited far too long to long for the "DL" guy to "figure" things out. Keep it up Jaks!
The cheater didn’t want to loose half his shit in a Divorce, he took his selfish “needs” outside his marital home.
It’s rare that I find such an important video as what you just presented. Just want to thank you for making it clear what people are headed for in a DL situation .
Self respect means everything.
Hey Jaks,
ALL these "categories" boil down to BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF !! These guys aren't being HONEST with themselves and will NOT be HONEST with YOU !!
You are RIGHT ON THE MONEY with Your Advice !!
I think some guys want it all the guy on the side for sex and then back to their wife or girlfriend.eventually they’ll get caught out.
💯
@@EthanLomas This conversation is going to annoy me. Most guys under the right scenario and substances lol have tendencies towards bi sexuality . Im very straight acting and looking but our bodies are literally hard wired for homosexual sex. Girls are straight lol
Inhale deeply. This kind of well-spoken, sage, pleasant and nicely-offered FRESH AIR is so refreshing.
Thanks for your insight and how right you are.
I seemed to be a magnet for DL guys and experienced a substantial reversal of fortune through my association with one.
2additional observations:
1. "You don't understand how difficulr it is for me" is their common mantra.
2. After counselling my self esteem improved yo the point that I no longer felt 'less than'.
Just DON'T get involved.
Cliff from Down Under.❤
Stay away from anyone who is in any type of relationship
Pretty simple. It’s about honesty. If I can’t be honest with and about myself, I am not living. If I want to be free, I must come out and be happy and proud with myself.❤
As a DL man... Thank you. You have given me much to think about.
Definitely remember to share when your friends dad propositions you!!!
I LOVE this topic and your covering of this subject!!!
Who is this drop dead gorgeous inside and out man on my screen talking about serious dating/relationships?
He’s a guy thinking clearly and intelligent, which can be a rarity in the queer community 🤠
I haven’t seen one of your videos in a while I think it’s because the algorithm didn’t find me worthy or are you worthy take your pick. This is one of the better videos I’ve seen on UA-cam over a number of years. I am now 70 years old and everything you have said is right on the money and it’s just what I tell other younger guys in their 20s and 30s. Most of us have fallen into the DL trap usually when we were young I was 24 and you are right it never ends well. I hope people take this video to heart I think the best thing you said is be with someone that wants to hold your hand as you walk down the street. I have told many people that you cannot build happiness on top of someone else’s unhappiness and that unhappy person is usually the wife and the children and eventually you. So thanks for posting this and I have to add that you are one good looking guy if I were only 50 years younger you have a really good day and keep posting your fun to listen to because you’re smart later.
The first guy I fell in love with at 19 was a DL. I fell in love hard, and I believed I could change him. That we would run away together. He even teased it. Talking about living together as room mates. Broke my heart. Never again. I found a good man and been together for 30 years now.
A few decades ago, I went out with this guy I met through a personal ad, and I made it clear I wanted a relationship. We went out a few times and I really liked him a lot and started to think maybe I'd finally found a potential boyfriend, and then he started hitting on me pretty hard back at my place and said he was married to a woman and bisexual. I was so angry I kicked him out immediately. He seemed shocked. He was probably used to pulling that on multiple guys and getting away with it. At the time, I was more worried about his having lied to me about the relationship part, which I was very serious about, but later I thought how glad I was that I didn't help him cheat on his wife. Sadly, he probably found someone else to cheat with though.
You appear to be a well grounded guy in my 20s I had my boss who was a married man suck me into a relationship thank God I entered it quickly and I wanna say to you that I hope you have found your happy ever after. I never wanted to be anyone’s mistress and it’s so unfair to the people they’re cheating ass you have a great day I’m glad you posted
@@myboibill Well, thank you. It might have been that I'm demisexual as well, although I didn't know that at the time.
That's something I never worried about. There were times when a wife suddenly called me, ranting about my phone number being in his wallet or wherever. I would always say, go talk to him. Once I used a great line, 'My wife, is she up to it again. She is always on that damn computer telling guys she is 23, she is actually 67 and we've been married 41years.' Then they think their husband is being a bigger fool than they thought. Later I would get a thank-you call. But it was never my problem, no one ever showed up at my door. I never set out to interfere in anyone's life. A friend told me about straight men when I was 23, until then I had never thought about them. I'm 74 now.
Ive been with so many DL married guys w GFs lost count. But they are only for fun and a good time not for BF or any emotional fulfilment. Some very memorable experiences and i just respect that it's between us and that's all it is no expectations. It's fascinating to me. Some I can see the shame wash over them after they are finished, but they come back lol!
Me too
Someone on the DL scarred me 30 years ago, and-I shit you not-it’s been only recently that I worked through the pain and shame he caused me.
Jack I hear ya, all that can eff you up for decades. Your trust in guys goes out the window, understand that all those sneaky cheaters in the Closet just want to cum, they don’t care one bit about his “victim.” I hope you are healed and Happy 🌞 You are Loved, hi from Florida 🌴 😎 🏳️🌈 🦩
I’m 87 my husband is 70 we have been together for 44 years and you are giving the best advice to confused and young people. He’s right find somebody to love.
I appreciate hearing this and reading the comments below. TBH, I am married to a woman and have children, but live with sexual attraction to men. There are no words to describe the years of anguish and anxiety I had with this because I simply could never put my family at risk. I have thought about "going on the DL" many more times that I care to admit, but never have as I don't have the heart to hurt wither my wife AND the man I would be engaging with. Readig this confirms I am doing the right thing, though I struggle with it often.
Buddy im totally straight looking acting and good looking like a hockey player., Im even right wing and Trust me ...explore now while you are young ! Please dude. Guys bodies literally fit together . . That is if you are attractive still they definitely do it
@@marksmith-jp5gy Hard comments to read. Straight here too .Tragic if you do not explore man.
It's never easy taking the high road... 😅
This is your best video to date.. very well balanced in your perspective…
I refuse to date anyone who's married, partnered or dl. Please be single and please be comfortable with yourself.
Thanks for sharing..been there done that. Your expectations are always tricking you into believing they will change. Run Run very fast away from these guys. You will only be hurt in the end.
I was with a 'str8' guy for 11.5 years. I got heartbroken badly.
8 years for me….i finally had enough of it. Best decision I made in a long time. I’m sorry you went through that too.
@@kermitkurtz3337 thank you!! So glad you left. I was dumped just cold turkey. It sucked but I learned alot from it.
Hey Jaks, you are certainly an old soul. Enjoy your vids.
I’ve had many of DL hookups, it was fun at the time, but eventually I just don’t contact them anymore. It IS too much work!
DLs are an extremely painful trap 💔 😢 😪 😫
Been there done that ....NEVER AGAIN !!!!!!!
Wow! I don't know why I have not stumbled upon your channel sooner. I enjoyed this talk and the scenery, both the backdrop and the forefront. Im going to catch up on SOME of your past videos (I see that there are many). I'm also looking forward to leading more about you, and maybe sharing some of my experiences in the comments.
Find people that are PROUD OF WHO THEY ARE 😊
I gotta say you are very comprehensive towards these men! I'm 55yo, out and proud, living in a country which legalized equality marriage only 13 years ago, married to a man and I simply can’t swallow the existence of these guys.. congrats on being so open!
Thanks Jake!
So glad you have addressed the DL. Deal.
I was a married man who struggled almost all my life.
Did the DL scene awhile, but agree with you 100%.
You’re not only handsome but very intelligent.
Keep up the good work.
Another Excellent Video! My Best Friend Was A DL Guy! Your Right It Didn’t End Well. Dave
So sad that DL men are DL to begin with. But hey, you understand. Thanks for your gentleness.
As you said, there are certain circumstances that we who have the freedom to be out can't understand.
That said, being with someone who is DL is basically cheating with someone who says they "plan" to leave their SO, but can't right now due to "financial reason's."🙄
I can respect the circumstances, but don't pull me into some ridiculous "love triangle" because you have "needs" and have decided to make me your human flashlight. No, thanks.
It’s dangerous as hell. People kill for less!
This is all so true. Now I try to be compassionate and support them in their journey to be who they want to be. We meet for coffee and friendship, but no more, it is just too complicated and too much work.
I agree with you , i feel sad at the same time for those people who can't live an authentic life !! In fact, they don't know true love and real happiness.. because they are living a lie !!!
I would say if the guy is DL and single, why not giving him a chance ? but if he is married or in a relationship , of course there is no way !!
I needed to hear this. I feel many people who go with DL men have daddy issues, like myself. Thank you so much for sharing your insightful thoughts. I want a happy life shared with a husband, not what I've been doing.
My own view is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. These married men with families get all the benefits societies bestows on people who practice that lifestyle. So they are sexually unfulfilled. Everything has its price.
OMG it's about time some one told the truth about these situations, Thanks Jaks - and "YES" hear him when he tells you "He's never going to leave his wife for you " - I know some of them can be really tempting - save yourself the heartache "walk away" - it is harder when they buy you a convertible
The Queer Community needs more men like you to be a voice. I’m not an influencer but I am becoming an advocate. Do you have email. I am gathering some information that benefits our Community.. thanks Jax
👍🏼 Your thumbs are great… buts let’s get in conversations.. proud of Christ and to be Queer. As we show real support the change will follow… ideas don’t happen without coming together. I’m not equipped in the art of social media. But I have a few pieces of the puzzle… let’s have a Christian / Queer conversation.. Mike Molinaro
Jaks I totally agree you there’s a guy I’ve started seeing a guy who’s dl cute but have blown him off do to this
This is soooo true !! Before I met my husband over half of the guys I hooked up with were either married or had a girlfriend !!
They’d be more at peace if they just J/O and immediately that urge “to cheat” disappears. Rinse and repeat as needed, like a shampoo bottle reads 🚿
I agree most of the time. Every now & then though, you need conditioner :)@pompom11
I’ve had experience with this with one of my best friends. Everything in this video is absolutely correct. It was a ton of work. Additionally, down low men typically don’t always know how to keep themselves up on cleanliness.
Handsome young man! "Ruin peoples marriages", his selfish indulgence took care of that, yes just don't humor DL or discrete it's already on shaky foundations.
Some of us had to be married to women first in order to fully become self aware of our own gayness. I was married to two women before becoming aware I preferred men. This was my experience even though I was born in San Francisco to a liberal family 🌈
Glad you made it!
Hi Jaks very well said. Your video popped up on my feed and I’m glad it did. I would say 80% of men that have came onto me is married or just “straight”
It gets old! I live in Indiana which is a very conservative family oriented town. So there’s nothing here for gays. therefore I’m single. I just subscribed
By the way, you are a very handsome man 😉
I was a domestic partner with my first. 26 years. He left his laptop open. Email after email from guys he was meeting on the "DL". I was the reason for the DL. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Luckily we were no longer intimate, his choice. I say lucky because I was probably spared STDs or worse. Needless to say, I confronted him, and shortly thereafter he was in my rear view mirror. 2 months later, I met the love of my life, so it worked out for me!
Beautiful.
I read a book years ago where it read, and I quote, “Homosexuals go from one cock to the next looking for the perfect one, but the search (sex hookups) never ends and they end up alone old men, or dead of AIDS.” It could have been Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask. As I remember Homo was a one page chapter.
I too found Mr. Right 😘
excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish you were around when I was young I've always been attracted to the DL men needless to say it leaves you empty and hollow and your affections are never truly reciprocated and you become a convenience basically all you are is a booty call at least that's been my experience.
Wow. This is the first video of yours I've seen, so not a lot of evidence on which to base the following statement, but you seem to be a very well-balanced guy. Thanks for putting this video out there.
You’re awesome…so glad this video showed up in my feed! You speak the truth, my friend…and I unfortunately speak from 20+ years of experience dealing with “straight” guys. They (and their associated baggage) can be problematic, to be sure. Well said!
The speaker is so handsome and so compassionate. And so well spoken. I hope he has a wonderful partner or husband.
I once had a thing with a DL man I meet on a fishing trip in in the late 1970's and towards the end of the relationship I spent the night at his place in the second bedroom while hie "wife" was in the main bedroom the catch was they were both on some sort of visa where they could live in Australia but had to go back to their respective homeland. The guy went to Scotland and use to send me a postacard
Thank you! Your comments and feeling resonate through many of my experiences too.
Hello and really enjoyed hearing your thoughts and hope you do more content.....your thoughts are clean and concise....Keep up the good work..
Amazing the clarity that you bring to your generation. Congratulations!!!
You are a well spoken man !! No stopping and re editing your conversation !! Im thinking you like to read ?
Such an excellent post. Thank you.
I had the same issue in my 20s. I got so annoyed mainly be because they were just not being honest with me. I steered clear of them. Now it doesn’t matter to me personally because I am in long term relationship.
I so agree with you. I am so sorry for all in this mess. Back in 1990 I was once married. You are angry. I get it. Then when I could add DL, I woke up. While married to a woman and we had children I had relationships with 4 men. The last one I even had over to dinner to meet my family. It hurt so much to be lying to all them. I moved out. Told the truth to her. Got right with all.
…solid advice for all involved or who might become involved in “mixed” hetero/homo relationships. Be careful to distinguish between merely sexual connections and meaningful life relationships … definitely excellent advice…❤ … you did mention that one (especially those who have made commitments to heterosexual marriages and family rearing) should honor his/her commitments … at least to their completion and the partners involved have decided to end their mutual heterosexual commitments to each other and the rearing of children…😊
Thank you Jaks, for saying what I have known all along,you have summed up everything, that unfortunately most men are in denial of when it comes to thier facing thier fears of thier own truth, because living in denial doesn't hurt,only the truth
I wholeheartedly appreciate this video, thank you 💖💝💖💝💖💝💖💝💖💝💖💝💖💝💖
I've been around the block enough to know, and have friends who in their ways have also learned: he's never going to leave his wife/gf for you (the same thing goes for ladies)!
Great job, well spoken
Articulate and thoughtful. There is a big difference between people that are brought up in a rural community and those in the large cities, in my opinion. Good job Jaks!
A huge difference. In the city one can be invisible so to speak, rural where everyone knows each other not so easy
@@BA-ic9uh So true!
@@BA-ic9uh acting straight is hot as F if you have fun With it. The guy who made this video might be a lil bitter bout straight acting guys but maybe he was making it all about himself instead of making it about them ! lol which is literally the definition of love
If they are in a relationship, I'd say you should stay away from a cheater. Someone who will cheat on a girlfriend or wife with you are not going to be reliable partners.
And Jaks, there are bisexual people as well.
Very well-said and civil regarding this subpopulation, but I think one thing to note is that usually, from my observation, is that majority of the time, most men who identify as DL/straight who engage with other men sexually seek the very same men who are in their position. I’m wondering if Jaks lives in an area where such men are so rare and far in between that they can only access out-men more so than those who are also in their position. This is why you’ll usually see DL men’s profiles say they’re only seeking married, DL men, and I think they if they do indicate that they’re openly straight in their profile, it’s very likely that they’re trying to attract like-minded men because then there won’t be a conflict of interest, AKA they’ll know what each other wants out of the sexual engagement with no strings attached; they get what they want without jeopardizing their public life. Sorry, just wanted to add this!
I don't completely agree with you because some of these guys might be bisexual, too. It doesn't mean DL men are all closeted gays. They can be closeted bisexuals.
I was with a guy like that and he was upfront about his situation. He wasn't married at the time, but he was engaged for 2 years. We "dated" for around 4 months, but I ended it because I started having more deep feelings for him. I heard years later that he indeed got married and has 2 kids now. I know he won't be completely happy though staying only within his marriage.
It's a very sad life...especially the guys who have the 'fetish for DL guys'. Ugh. Cute guy. ☺️
This video popped up on the UA-cam algorithm..... Funny never really knew White Queenz talk about DL men 😂.... Just comical hearing them use our dialect 😳
Love this video. Thanks for posting. Been there, done that. For better or worse, it's hard to avoid this phenomenon in the homosexual demimonde. Fortunately for me, I was still young and very resilient, and had the sound intuition to end it before it got too far. In my own view, the bottom line is this: The abbreviation "DL" is just the new slang term for what we used to call "closet cases" and those guys don't give a $#!+ about you - they never will because they can't. They're utterly selfish. You are nothing more to them - and never will be anything more - than The Other Woman. I suspect that the only hope for successfully negotiating this type of association lies in keeping your own expectations down to the bare minimum. In other words, you're nothing but f***-buddies, or little more than that. Now, if you're cool with that and are prepared to assume the other risks that Jaks Attacks mentions in this video; well, okay. But you should understand that, even in your best moments with a DL, you're "friendship" is based on a lie. I would meditate on this fact for a while.
I think there is another category of men who are open to those who ask but don't like to advertise. If you have a very fundamentalist or very adamantly homophobic family, and they know and you know they know anyways, it just can be very uncomfortable for them in their situation, and there can be also a risk that if you are too open, you will be cutoff and unable to help your family in other ways. It can be a selfless act if you thinks it's best for them, even if it's more pain for you.
👑🎩👊🏾🌈👏🏾👏🏾 Its so refreshing to hear someone speak on this issue in a fair and adult manner !
I have only attracted that kind of guy . So I've had to educated mysel both emotionally and literally . Trying to have more compassion...for the guys . Lets face it , we are all working through issues that at " the end of the day " call for love , compassion and understanding ❤️🙏🏾
Thanks; amazing video. This world needs more people like you. Don't stop talking to us. DL or not.
Thanks for the beautiful words of wisdom. Im a small town country boy and totally get it.
Relevant video. Thanks, Jaks.
Hey jaks your awesome. So we'll put together. Keep up with what your doing. Your so right about the dl guys. Keep doing what your doing. Your very informative.
Tired of being in the dating pool… seems like everyone is either partnered, on the DL, open relationship, cheating, or just plain playing the field with one night stands (or 2). Would love to settle down and find a guy like you for a partner and a best friend! There’s slim Pickens of decent available men in Ohio.
Hi I feel the same way hanks for sharing I’m about 25 miles south of St. Louis, older guy very down to earth,loves to go rv camping , enjoys going to the lakes dog dad no smoker, Have a great week
Thanks for great info, Jaks! I have seen much of what you speak, and suffered some! You are attractive and smart ... and so appreciated. 😍
You are so civil. Are you truly a person who can seem so sincere? Hardly any gossip or drama to your presentation. Do warning labels really work?
Sage advice for both sides of the spectrum. With the suicide rate at it's highest level EVER, Americans need to take a step back & reevaluate our self worth. Relationships are so much more than sex... sleeping with someone you don't know or value is a waste of time & loss of pearls. ❤️🙏
these men are like the only men that hit on me, and I'm so tired of it. As a Pansexual man, it's just crazy to me how hard it is to find single men.
I read an interesting book on this subject which gives some insight into the lives of DL men. "Still Straight - Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America", by Tony Silva. According to Silva's research, some straight-identifying men in rural America engage in sexual relationships with other men while still strongly identifying with straight culture, due to factors like bonding with other men in a masculine way, avoiding emotional attachment with women, or viewing it as a more acceptable form of extramarital behavior.
I don’t care how someone defines himself. I *DO* care if they are making decisions for themselves that also affect and may hurt others; it’s not easy coming out, but please don’t take other people down with your emotional baggage.
I subscribed because you give good knowledge & give people ideas 💡 on how to handle their situations.
Some of them are bisexual not all of them are gays.
It's a much smaller group than the ones that say they are bi/str8 but having sex with men... Having sex w/ a woman doesn't make you bi/str8 :D
There is no future in any of that. They don’t end well. Don’t waste your time with anyone who hides who they are.
It's always sounds weird to me to hear a YT person use the term "DL". I guess cuz I'm from a time when Yt used the term "closeted".
Simply put, they are cowardly hypocrites. I have contempt for them.
As a closeted person I agree that most cases we won’t come out for you, or leave our families for you, but at least in my case, I would totally defend you if something goes down.
It would be better for everyone involved if DL men just stuck with other DL men.
I feel for you. Yr cute too 😘
@@CarlCoppinger lol thanks 😊