As a previous igpu user it is so exciting to me seeing the absolutely huge gains integrated gpus have made over the last 5ish years or so. Before you were lucky to play older games at all, now you can have an actually decent experience on even new games! Great video as always, keep up the amazing work!
Keep in mind that the KING of CPUs when the 7970 came out was the Intel 2500K/2600K. A matchup between this SFF PC and a 2600K/7970 would be very interesting.
I second a 2600K. 2500k has only 4 threads and is a turd in many games now. Assassins Creed Origins, from 2017 which is actually a really fun game despite what some sour grapers with old cpu's claimed; was the death of the oncee legendary 2500k, and it's only gotten worse since. A flipping FX8350 can run many games now better than those i5s now, thats how thread hungry some games are.
@@anasevi9456 yep, still rocking my old 8350. I've already got the change stashed for a new CPU, but wait till I'll come along the first game that isn't playable.
@@anasevi9456 I had a 4790k in 2014. In a lot of the better multithreaded games, it ran better with hyperthreading turned off, somewhat simulating an i5, albeit with more cache and higher frequency. Earlier generations were worse in that respect...HT didn't scale well with games in those days. I'd expect a 2500k to run most games as well as or better than a 2600k, assuming equal binning quality. FX chips have some advantage in a few games over the old 4 core intel standard, but their awkward shared cache doesn't do any favors in most games. I had an FX chip for a while before I got the 4790k. My R9 290 at the time ran about 40-60% better with the intel cpu, always being bottlenecked hard by the FX~
I think a lot of people don't understand what this performance means, this is basically better than a GTX 1050 Ti, a very popular GPU that many people still use today and consider a great budget option...Same ballpark as GTX 970, RX 470 and similars, amazing performance although if these igpus don't come with a very affordable 4c/8t CPU it's worthless
@@aboveaveragebayleaf9216 - DDR5 is dropping in price though. The RAM I paid 160 for is down to 110 in just three or four months. A decent iGPU with a budget CPU could make for a pretty solid mini-PC that can handle all of the older games without breaking a sweat, and even play some of the newer titles at respectable settings.
It really depends on the whole system, this thing is not quite as good as a GTX 980m laptop afaik. I think it's 1650 tier. So yeah it basically is just barely good enough for budget 1080p gaming--key word BUDGET. Which is mainly meaning that if you could get a laptop with a, 6750h or whatever tf and a GTX 980m, or a i7 4800hq+GTX 980m (8gb or 4gb variant) with 16gb DDR3 and an SSD and it cost you like $300 USD and the Radeon 780m system cost you $499, the smart move is to just buy the decade old gaming laptop with aged dGPU. So it's kind of a problem in this regard because a lot of the really good iGPU comes attached to some high end af chip that literally costs more than budget systems on its own, long before you built anything around it. Like if you got a 7800x something that cost over $500 for just the CPU that is f'ing DUMB to buy for gaming. At that point you may as well buy a used 3770k on a Z77 board that comes with cooler and 16gb of DDR3 for like $150. Just buy the case, power supply, and used RX 580, you easily can have a $300 gaming system that is both cheaper than the CPU alone and is also better performing. So sadly really the miniforum stuff is just too expensive to be taken seriously right now as a gaming option. The used old GPUs are just way too plentiful and cheap. It would've been a godsend during mining crazes though.
One interesting comparison might be the 680M vs 6400, which have very similar specs (same architecture and number of CUs). Of course the 680M is going to have limited memory bandwidth and TDP.
Doing some research around, 6400 seems to lead the spot against 680m by around 10%~ish FPS difference. 680M is equal to GTX 1650 which i currently own. I'm amazed honestly!
Setting the frame buffer to 3GB in the BIOS does not limit it, it only sets the protected size. The GPU will still use far more than that if it needs to, just while competing with the CPU .
I had two 7970's. I sold them for about $200 each about 5 years ago. They were the premier bitcoin mining card when launched. I never mined with them, if I had I'd be retired right now.
Pretty amazing to see how far integrated graphics have gone. I've only recently stopped using my R9 280X after almost 10 years. So I'm quite impressed to see this.
Pretty crazy i gpu’s are finally getting to what I would call playable. My first top tier gpu was a sapphire vapor x 7970ghz. I remember having a hard time choosing between it and a 680 but the extra vram won me over. Would love to see a steam deck 2 with the 680m but i know many other steam deck competitors have it already but cost way more.
This little Ryzen is very impressive ! Look at the 7970 powerdraw. 250w TDP for graphics alone ! This gives you Tahiti temperatures in the room aswell empty bank accounts at the same time 😉
Yea if you are that kind of person who played 8 hours every day in the last 11 years with your HD7970 then you had to pay around 2000$ just for the power consumption of this card. lol
Man I still remember running Crysis on an old pentium with a passively cooled 9500. People don't realize how lucky they are these days, everything is so damn fast comparatively
The 680M with its much newer architecture will be more optimized for the recently released games while the 7970 will handily beat the 680M in older titles such as GTA V where it's almost 50% faster. AMD already stopped giving driver updates for the 7970 which puts it at a big disadvantage when testing newer titles.
That's true but testing in new games still makes more sense. Because even though the 7970 was %50 faster than the 680M in an older game, the 680M was already averaging above 60fps. And that's GTA V we're talking about, one of the most demanding "older" game you can test. In newer games like Forza Horizon 5 the 680M offers a 60fps experience compared to 7970's 30fps. So unless you plan on only playing older games it makes more sense to get the 680M.
@@ninjafrozr8809 My comment isn't about which GPU you should get today but rather addressing the statement that 'iGPU's like the 680M has progressed so much that it can beat a flagship GPU from 2011'. It actually does not beat the flagship GPU because AMD has already stopped supporting the 7970 therefore it is going to lose in all the newer games. The computational performance of the 7970 is still vastly greater.
@@dragonl4d216 I get your point. The 7970 would still get beaten in 2023 games even if it still had driver support simply because it's harder to utilise %100 power from such an old architechture in game engines that don't really support them. But still, i get your point. The 7970 does indeed have more raw power, it just cannot use all of it anymore.
We are talking about an eleven years old gpu, i dont know why the excitement about the 680m. Amd can actually make a desktop cpu with igpu capable of 1080p/high settings right now with their actual technology, i dont know what are they waiting for.
That 4800MHz memory is definitely an bottleneck, APU's are almost always memory starved, since they don't have VRAM and have to rely on the system memory, that by itself and by definition adds latency and slower the memory = more latency and lower bandwidth, those timings and subtimings are atrocious on that 4800MHz memory, if you had 6000MHz close to CL30 the IGPU would perform much better and the 1% would be noticeable higher.
If you did this test in 2012 you'd be comparing the Intel HD 4000 to the GeForce Ti 4600 or the ATI Radeon 8500 or maybe 9700 Pro.The iGPU would absolutely butcher these cards, not only in performance but in feature set, considering the ATI and NVIDIA products were DirectX 8/9 parts. Even the heavily criticized older Intel GMA line would still probably beat the older discrete options. Different times.
The HD 4000s is when iGPUs really started to improve dramatically and have been gradually getting better and better. I had the HD 4000 in my x230 ThinkPad Ultrabook and it could play a good number of games at reduced settings.
I'd love to see how the Minisforum UM773 Lite compares to the RX 6400 (paired to the 5700G). I have an aging spare PC with an i5 6500 and the RX 6400 might make a decent pairing at around $140.
So bad news, integrated graphics are 10 years behind dedicated graphics. Good news, prices are completely crazy, so that 10 years old card sells for £60-120 and having a low power version of it in your CPU makes it relatively convenient.
One way to look at it.. another way would be... if your banging GPU fails and you have a chip with a 680m in it you can still do everything outside of gaming just as well (besides content creation) and even game on it too in a pinch.
Wow, time passes by quickly! Has it already been 10 years? I used to have two 7970's in my gaming PC (later replaced it with a R9-290). I've been looking at those Minisforum pc's before. Their small size is a huge advantage.
the real holdback on the igpus are the lack of deditated Wam. no ram on SOC yet , some gddr6x on an igpu would increase bandwidth greatly compared to even fast ddr5 the dies are only so big and the infinity fabric didnt account for it it seems .
00:32 Just so you know it's 4800MTs not MHz, transfer rate is double the memory clock speed (2400Mhz) since it's Double Data Rate (DDR), Dr Ian Cutress made a video about this a few years ago.
I am actually impressed with the HD 7970. For such an old card I thought it would basically be unplayable in new games but it is sort of fine at 30fps at 1080p. 1080p is clearly still the most relevant resolution and 30fps was standard not so long ago. it's kind of refreshing to know that in the end you don't need a super high end pc to play games if you are OK turning the resolution and settings down and also playing at lower frame rates. Nvidia, Amd and Intel all want gamers to crave 4k Ultra 140+fps, and obviously those settings are incredible if you can pay the 4-5k, but if you just want to play video games and enjoy them, looking past janky graphics then it is possible with a PC under like 600. You will be making sacrifices at the cheaper price but it does allow you to buy in and experience video games, and in many simple video games it really doesn't matter so much. Many excellent 2d pixel games are out now, many indie titles with low requirements, also we now have a huge history of video games, you can go back and play AAA titles from 10 years ago on a super budget PC. Current prices suck for new released GPUs but by taking a different look at things the poors can have a good time still :')
The fact that games like Cyberpunk and Forza even run on these integrated graphics blows my mind, it seems gone are the days when iGPUs were reserved for games no more intensive than CS:GO.
Do you have an Intel Dg1 to test? Ill send you one for your review channel if you send it back.Ill have to send you a motherboard with it cause its only compatible with a few boards and I have one its compatible with.
if only this came when I was still a student and couldnt afford to buy a $2K PC like I can today. This would've saved me so much pain, playing at 800x600
I just retired an R9 280X for an RX 6700 but I've been on the lookout for an SFF PC with similar clout as the 280X to add to the living room for couch PC gaming.
I have the previous model, the UM690, which I'm using as a secondary system. The only real difference is the CPU but the iGPU is the same. So far I've been thoroughly impressed with it's performance considering what it is.
Interesting video, again! Thank you! I have a question: You mentioned, that here are probably the gpu's the bottlenecks. How can I decided what GPU should I pair with my CPU? F.e. I got an AMD Athlon II X4 640, A10-7800, an FX-6350, and a Ryzen 3 1200, an i5-2400, and I got a Radeon HD6850 passive, HD7870, an RX460 and an RX570, and a GTX750Ti on the way.
iGPU (APU) usually only matter with tighter timing RAM instead of clock speed. The lower CAS Latency, the better APU performs. Despite comparing it to the exact same RAM speed but with different latency
In the 1990s a decent PC would last 2 or 3 years before it could barely handle the newer titles (if it could run them at all), and now we're seeing that a decent 2012/2013 era PC is still reasonably OK after 10 years. Moore's Law has been slowing down for the past few years, and improvements in computing are becoming harder and more expensive to develop - so the high end computers of today are likely to get some beastly longevity. We might be looking at some of the first machines that will, on a large scale, end up becoming e-waste when the parts die, and not when they become "obsolete."
Did you just "limit" igpu to 3GB, thinking it can use only 3GB of VRAM ? That is reserved memory, meaning it still has like 8GB of shared memory still (makes no difference except for HW detection).
I think the custom drivers for the 7970 are inconsistent - fast in some titles, but slow in others. So I wonder if your Forza figure is an aberration from that?
I think these mini PCs are a very bad idea for anyone on a budget, being able to beat or match an eleven year old GPU isn't impressive, they can barely run modern games and the only upgrade path for the CPU and GPU is throwing it in the bin and buying a new one, refurbished PCs offer much better value.
My girst gaming pc build used a ryzen 3 2200g because my parents didnt alow me to buy an optiplex and gt1030 from ebay. to this day I have the same motherboard and case, everything else I upgraded. If anything, igpus are really good for entry level gaming, and also have a WAY better upgrade path, considering the CPUs by themselfs could probaly handle a 3060.
Something I've always wondered is whether or not allocating more or less RAM to VRAM for the iGPU matters because when GPUs run out of VRAM they usually just go to RAM anyways. Maybe the RAM you allocate to the iGPU is rearing to go whereas the RAM you have to get after running out of VRAM is taking a nice nap and has latency 😂
Usually the set ram is meaningless for igpu's, they will allocate more memory if needed. My intel iris xe g4 says it only has 128 mb's of memory however it really has 16gb's available due to having 32gb' of system ram. A little confusing but igp's use what's available on the system when it can
@@BrandanFischer while that's true, allocating too little VRAM (think 128MB or less) can lead to instability and artificial software locks. IMO the best bet is setting it somewhere around 1GB.
Id like to know from your honest opinion if this would be worth buying as a backup/living room gaming PC and id also like to know if you did ever test this on the side at 4gb and 8gb for the Vram because if i order one of these which is on sale right now i plan on installing my own kit of 32gb memory and i have a old 512gb Gen3 NVMe and a 1tb 2.5" SSD id slap into the system.
@RandomGaminginHD will you be reviewing/trying one of them Erying motherboards with laptop i9s on them? Seen them pop on on a few UA-camrs pages over the last few weeks. I my self ordered a i5 version from AliExpress and is due to come this week
I'm curious about a comparison on the Ryzen 5 5600G's integrated graphics vs a low end GPU, like the RX 6400 or 6500XT. I expect the 6600 would beat the integrated hands down, less sure about the other two.
Did you use signed driver's.. those nimex drivers allow better compatibility.. but takes performance.. could be like 30%.. was this with the legacy drivers from amd.. You could even overclock the 7970 to see if it makes any difference 🙂👍 The difference between Forza vs gta5 shows it..
Die size has improved a lot in the last 10 years, It could be possible but a GPUs has improved so much in the later years that I doubt that we will match 4090 on a igpu in 2032.
@@Anas7ergun yeah there used to be huge nm jumps but now we are down to struggling to get more than 1nm per gen so Performance to Power jumps are way smaller. I agree with not thinking it's possible even if AMD gets a *000G IO + CPU Chiplet + GPU Chiplet APUs in the current Desktop Package size, I am just guessing but think that if you are building Dual Chiplet APUs to get 4090 Level GPU Performance they will need to be the size of Threadripper & using well over 500W.
@@shaneeslick I agree with the size increase but not with the 500w consumption. We could even be having arm processors on our computers since x86 has lot of instructions that aren't used. Just look at the mobile side
why some games like Forza Horizon 5 and GTA V performs a lot different with HD 7970? I have noticed that this also happens even when compare same VGA generation between AMD & Nvidia on some titles
It's incredible to see how far these AMD Ryzen CPUs have come. If I'm going to be completely honest I would have picked one of these up if it was about $100 less. This is just my opinion but these mini PCs with Steam OS 3 installed would probably make for a pretty successful steam machine especially if Valve can mass-produce them and sell them for about $400 or less. Part of me wonders if steamos can be installed on this (Holo ISO)
With extremely similar hardware and GPU architecture to HoloOS, I have no doubt. Also, someone could install HoloOS with Chimera, which is a direct fork of HoloOS and functions identically to it.
@@RandomGaminginHD just weird keyboard design to have the keys over the edge of the board. I feel ike it might be called "infinity" keys(like the pool) in some PR advert. lol
I used to try and play fear on an old pesario laptop. 2008 Dual core intel 2ghz the igpu was just well... Was a bloody horrid experience. Least the old anthalon desktop could run bf2 at low.
That newer iGPU is running on a third of the Compute Units the 7970 has. It was also slightly kneecapped by slow DDR5 with bad timings. I'd say for an iGPU it does a damn fine job, certainly a lot better than the intel Iris XE iGPUs can do.
The day an integrated GPU perform about the same as my GTX 980, is the day I will definitely get a new desktop PC (unless my current one breaks before then, lol).
at 5:28 I said the iGPU got OVER 60fps in Forza. It was 59. My bad :D
Unsubbing because of that mistake. It's just too much.
How dare you
Straight to gulag
damn the fake news and misinformation are just too rampant.
How dare you 🤣🤣
As a previous igpu user it is so exciting to me seeing the absolutely huge gains integrated gpus have made over the last 5ish years or so. Before you were lucky to play older games at all, now you can have an actually decent experience on even new games! Great video as always, keep up the amazing work!
Yeah the progress is incredible
Yh bro I was building a pc in 2015, but didn't finish so I was using my i5 6500 igpu it sucked but hey.
The APU’s GPU is equivalent to a GTX 1050 which is trash in 2023.
@@ZackSNetwork really I was thinking of buying one with a dell prebuilt pc in order to turn it into a gaming pc
Could have been much more powerful, but then this would make low-end GPUs in the market less valuable. AMD doesn't want that. It sucks. :(
Keep in mind that the KING of CPUs when the 7970 came out was the Intel 2500K/2600K. A matchup between this SFF PC and a 2600K/7970 would be very interesting.
I second a 2600K. 2500k has only 4 threads and is a turd in many games now. Assassins Creed Origins, from 2017 which is actually a really fun game despite what some sour grapers with old cpu's claimed; was the death of the oncee legendary 2500k, and it's only gotten worse since. A flipping FX8350 can run many games now better than those i5s now, thats how thread hungry some games are.
all games would still be gpu limited so kind of pointless imo
@@ademiravdic not to mention the lack of instruction sets
@@anasevi9456 yep, still rocking my old 8350. I've already got the change stashed for a new CPU, but wait till I'll come along the first game that isn't playable.
@@anasevi9456 I had a 4790k in 2014. In a lot of the better multithreaded games, it ran better with hyperthreading turned off, somewhat simulating an i5, albeit with more cache and higher frequency. Earlier generations were worse in that respect...HT didn't scale well with games in those days. I'd expect a 2500k to run most games as well as or better than a 2600k, assuming equal binning quality. FX chips have some advantage in a few games over the old 4 core intel standard, but their awkward shared cache doesn't do any favors in most games. I had an FX chip for a while before I got the 4790k. My R9 290 at the time ran about 40-60% better with the intel cpu, always being bottlenecked hard by the FX~
I think a lot of people don't understand what this performance means, this is basically better than a GTX 1050 Ti, a very popular GPU that many people still use today and consider a great budget option...Same ballpark as GTX 970, RX 470 and similars, amazing performance although if these igpus don't come with a very affordable 4c/8t CPU it's worthless
Yeah that would be a perfect pair for a lot of people.
Perfect area for and to come in with ultra budget gamers. Bonus points if am4
@Fat Cat Cooper they aren't coming out with new am4 chips. 5800x3d is the last chip for the platform. It's a damn good one too.
@@aboveaveragebayleaf9216 - DDR5 is dropping in price though. The RAM I paid 160 for is down to 110 in just three or four months. A decent iGPU with a budget CPU could make for a pretty solid mini-PC that can handle all of the older games without breaking a sweat, and even play some of the newer titles at respectable settings.
It really depends on the whole system, this thing is not quite as good as a GTX 980m laptop afaik. I think it's 1650 tier. So yeah it basically is just barely good enough for budget 1080p gaming--key word BUDGET. Which is mainly meaning that if you could get a laptop with a, 6750h or whatever tf and a GTX 980m, or a i7 4800hq+GTX 980m (8gb or 4gb variant) with 16gb DDR3 and an SSD and it cost you like $300 USD and the Radeon 780m system cost you $499, the smart move is to just buy the decade old gaming laptop with aged dGPU. So it's kind of a problem in this regard because a lot of the really good iGPU comes attached to some high end af chip that literally costs more than budget systems on its own, long before you built anything around it. Like if you got a 7800x something that cost over $500 for just the CPU that is f'ing DUMB to buy for gaming. At that point you may as well buy a used 3770k on a Z77 board that comes with cooler and 16gb of DDR3 for like $150. Just buy the case, power supply, and used RX 580, you easily can have a $300 gaming system that is both cheaper than the CPU alone and is also better performing. So sadly really the miniforum stuff is just too expensive to be taken seriously right now as a gaming option. The used old GPUs are just way too plentiful and cheap. It would've been a godsend during mining crazes though.
One interesting comparison might be the 680M vs 6400, which have very similar specs (same architecture and number of CUs). Of course the 680M is going to have limited memory bandwidth and TDP.
Doing some research around, 6400 seems to lead the spot against 680m by around 10%~ish FPS difference. 680M is equal to GTX 1650 which i currently own. I'm amazed honestly!
@@gateopssss rx 680m is like a 1650 at 35w tdp
A big bottleneck with the 680M is easily the memory
@@Gokulbalram yes they should put faster ddr5 or lppdr5
@@dd22koopaesverde58 Yeah, my 680m I'd paired to DDR5 4800, and I easily see dips that would be resolved with better memory
the best channel
Agreed 👍
Finally someone comparing modern igpu vs classic cards :)
Setting the frame buffer to 3GB in the BIOS does not limit it, it only sets the protected size. The GPU will still use far more than that if it needs to, just while competing with the CPU .
This is true, and applies to things like the Steam Deck too. A lot of people mistakenly believe the UMA Frame buffer sets the total VRAM.
I absolutely love iGPU's. For the power consumption they have incredible performance.
Specially on laptops due to battery and thermals, also weight.
I had two 7970's. I sold them for about $200 each about 5 years ago. They were the premier bitcoin mining card when launched. I never mined with them, if I had I'd be retired right now.
Many of us had a Pentium 4 when Bitcoin started but we never thought the future would be as crazy as It is.
A single 7970 mining back then could have made you a millionaire 🤯
the 512-bit 4gb vram r9 290: am i a joke to you
Pretty amazing to see how far integrated graphics have gone. I've only recently stopped using my R9 280X after almost 10 years. So I'm quite impressed to see this.
In 2012 the HD 7970 was matched up against the GTX 680. Now... In 2023, it faces a new foe, a new 680 contender, again.
Finally, after 10 years my beast video card back then was matched by iGpu
or maybe not. Only in new games where video card lacks drivers support.
So this IGPU caused me to upgrade my aging R9 280, power usage difference is insanely compelling
Pretty crazy i gpu’s are finally getting to what I would call playable. My first top tier gpu was a sapphire vapor x 7970ghz. I remember having a hard time choosing between it and a 680 but the extra vram won me over. Would love to see a steam deck 2 with the 680m but i know many other steam deck competitors have it already but cost way more.
That is impressive actually, especially the efficiency.
Yeah such low power consumption
This little Ryzen is very impressive !
Look at the 7970 powerdraw. 250w TDP for graphics alone !
This gives you Tahiti temperatures in the room aswell empty bank accounts at the same time 😉
Yea if you are that kind of person who played 8 hours every day in the last 11 years with your HD7970 then you had to pay around 2000$ just for the power consumption of this card. lol
try the Hawai. :D
Man I still remember running Crysis on an old pentium with a passively cooled 9500. People don't realize how lucky they are these days, everything is so damn fast comparatively
Yeah exactly. We had a pentium 4 machine that could just about run it
@@RandomGaminginHD "Just about" meaning it at least didn't catch on fire 🤣
My friend "played" Crysis on a 6600gt/Athlon 64 3500+ so I cannot imagine a 9500, a horrendously cut down R300.
@@supabass4003 The worst part was because the heatsink was designed to be passively cooled, putting a fan on it actually made it worse.
@@supabass4003 Unless it's the GeForce 9500 GT instead of the Radeon 9500
The review that we didn't knew we needed!!!! Great review as always.
Glad it was helpful!
The 680M with its much newer architecture will be more optimized for the recently released games while the 7970 will handily beat the 680M in older titles such as GTA V where it's almost 50% faster. AMD already stopped giving driver updates for the 7970 which puts it at a big disadvantage when testing newer titles.
That's true but testing in new games still makes more sense. Because even though the 7970 was %50 faster than the 680M in an older game, the 680M was already averaging above 60fps. And that's GTA V we're talking about, one of the most demanding "older" game you can test. In newer games like Forza Horizon 5 the 680M offers a 60fps experience compared to 7970's 30fps. So unless you plan on only playing older games it makes more sense to get the 680M.
@@ninjafrozr8809 My comment isn't about which GPU you should get today but rather addressing the statement that 'iGPU's like the 680M has progressed so much that it can beat a flagship GPU from 2011'. It actually does not beat the flagship GPU because AMD has already stopped supporting the 7970 therefore it is going to lose in all the newer games. The computational performance of the 7970 is still vastly greater.
@@dragonl4d216 I get your point. The 7970 would still get beaten in 2023 games even if it still had driver support simply because it's harder to utilise %100 power from such an old architechture in game engines that don't really support them. But still, i get your point. The 7970 does indeed have more raw power, it just cannot use all of it anymore.
These iGPU results are approaching 1050ti levels. Impressive!
We are talking about an eleven years old gpu, i dont know why the excitement about the 680m. Amd can actually make a desktop cpu with igpu capable of 1080p/high settings right now with their actual technology, i dont know what are they waiting for.
Before I read the entire title I thought it was referring to a GTX 680M.
Haha I’ll have to test that
Will you do something special for your 500K subscriber milestone?
man thats efficient and a good way to put it into perspective
YOOOO love the video man
😁
AN EPIC BATTLE YESSSSSSS 🎉
Would like to see some entry level old gpus, like a R7 250X or GTX 960. Great work by the way.
Will wait for the 780M. That could be the real game changer
That 4800MHz memory is definitely an bottleneck, APU's are almost always memory starved, since they don't have VRAM and have to rely on the system memory, that by itself and by definition adds latency and slower the memory = more latency and lower bandwidth, those timings and subtimings are atrocious on that 4800MHz memory, if you had 6000MHz close to CL30 the IGPU would perform much better and the 1% would be noticeable higher.
@El Cactuar Doesn't matter, both are correct.
Nicely done. Thanks.
I wasn't expecting the bios to look like that anymore 😅
I kind remember 680M is close to 1050ti, so the 7970 is quite well as today’s low to mid range gpu card.
wait to see 780M later, heard it will better
I remember when iGPU's could barely run San Andreas at 1080p...
Almost 500k keep it up man, you make great video's love them.
Thanks :) almost there!
If you did this test in 2012 you'd be comparing the Intel HD 4000 to the GeForce Ti 4600 or the ATI Radeon 8500 or maybe 9700 Pro.The iGPU would absolutely butcher these cards, not only in performance but in feature set, considering the ATI and NVIDIA products were DirectX 8/9 parts. Even the heavily criticized older Intel GMA line would still probably beat the older discrete options. Different times.
The HD 4000s is when iGPUs really started to improve dramatically and have been gradually getting better and better. I had the HD 4000 in my x230 ThinkPad Ultrabook and it could play a good number of games at reduced settings.
Good comparison. I would also add the GTX 680 as a competitor to the 7970 at the time.
Man, this video proves why there is no point in going future proof. Thanks for the video!
I'd love to see how the Minisforum UM773 Lite compares to the RX 6400 (paired to the 5700G). I have an aging spare PC with an i5 6500 and the RX 6400 might make a decent pairing at around $140.
So bad news, integrated graphics are 10 years behind dedicated graphics.
Good news, prices are completely crazy, so that 10 years old card sells for £60-120 and having a low power version of it in your CPU makes it relatively convenient.
One way to look at it.. another way would be... if your banging GPU fails and you have a chip with a 680m in it you can still do everything outside of gaming just as well (besides content creation) and even game on it too in a pinch.
Wow, time passes by quickly! Has it already been 10 years?
I used to have two 7970's in my gaming PC (later replaced it with a R9-290).
I've been looking at those Minisforum pc's before. Their small size is a huge advantage.
Amazing to see the igpu power while knowing there is already a 20% faster 780m version soon available.
the real holdback on the igpus are the lack of deditated Wam. no ram on SOC yet , some gddr6x on an igpu would increase bandwidth greatly compared to even fast ddr5 the dies are only so big and the infinity fabric didnt account for it it seems .
00:32 Just so you know it's 4800MTs not MHz, transfer rate is double the memory clock speed (2400Mhz) since it's Double Data Rate (DDR), Dr Ian Cutress made a video about this a few years ago.
make a video like this but for the new 780M that will be coming out soon.
I am actually impressed with the HD 7970. For such an old card I thought it would basically be unplayable in new games but it is sort of fine at 30fps at 1080p. 1080p is clearly still the most relevant resolution and 30fps was standard not so long ago. it's kind of refreshing to know that in the end you don't need a super high end pc to play games if you are OK turning the resolution and settings down and also playing at lower frame rates. Nvidia, Amd and Intel all want gamers to crave 4k Ultra 140+fps, and obviously those settings are incredible if you can pay the 4-5k, but if you just want to play video games and enjoy them, looking past janky graphics then it is possible with a PC under like 600. You will be making sacrifices at the cheaper price but it does allow you to buy in and experience video games, and in many simple video games it really doesn't matter so much. Many excellent 2d pixel games are out now, many indie titles with low requirements, also we now have a huge history of video games, you can go back and play AAA titles from 10 years ago on a super budget PC. Current prices suck for new released GPUs but by taking a different look at things the poors can have a good time still :')
The fact that games like Cyberpunk and Forza even run on these integrated graphics blows my mind, it seems gone are the days when iGPUs were reserved for games no more intensive than CS:GO.
would be interesting to have this comparison with more games from 7970-era
Do you have an Intel Dg1 to test? Ill send you one for your review channel if you send it back.Ill have to send you a motherboard with it cause its only compatible with a few boards and I have one its compatible with.
I want to see the same setup, but playing games that released when the 7970 launched.
Nice video but what market does the mini pc target ?
can we see the 5700g no dedicated vs the cpu in the minisforum pc please
Can be use as a home theatre or even light gaming...
5:40 is your plate a reference to the Athlon 3000G?
if only this came when I was still a student and couldnt afford to buy a $2K PC like I can today.
This would've saved me so much pain, playing at 800x600
I just retired an R9 280X for an RX 6700 but I've been on the lookout for an SFF PC with similar clout as the 280X to add to the living room for couch PC gaming.
what is with you and putting gpus on rocks and how to they still work
I have the previous model, the UM690, which I'm using as a secondary system. The only real difference is the CPU but the iGPU is the same. So far I've been thoroughly impressed with it's performance considering what it is.
Interesting video, again! Thank you!
I have a question: You mentioned, that here are probably the gpu's the bottlenecks.
How can I decided what GPU should I pair with my CPU?
F.e. I got an AMD Athlon II X4 640, A10-7800, an FX-6350, and a Ryzen 3 1200, an i5-2400,
and I got a Radeon HD6850 passive, HD7870, an RX460 and an RX570, and a GTX750Ti on the way.
I am curious how good the performance will be if the system came with something like 6000mhz memory stick. Assuming of course that it does support it.
iGPU (APU) usually only matter with tighter timing RAM instead of clock speed.
The lower CAS Latency, the better APU performs. Despite comparing it to the exact same RAM speed but with different latency
Having used a 7950 with some large oc for 5 years until it died, I am quite impressed that the 7970 still holds up today to some extend.
In the 1990s a decent PC would last 2 or 3 years before it could barely handle the newer titles (if it could run them at all), and now we're seeing that a decent 2012/2013 era PC is still reasonably OK after 10 years. Moore's Law has been slowing down for the past few years, and improvements in computing are becoming harder and more expensive to develop - so the high end computers of today are likely to get some beastly longevity. We might be looking at some of the first machines that will, on a large scale, end up becoming e-waste when the parts die, and not when they become "obsolete."
imho!111: 680M vs rx550 is more appropriate power consumption wise
Did you just "limit" igpu to 3GB, thinking it can use only 3GB of VRAM ? That is reserved memory, meaning it still has like 8GB of shared memory still (makes no difference except for HW detection).
After seeing the results from GTA V it shows the hd 7970 had more to give if AMD supported it in terms of driver updates
I think the custom drivers for the 7970 are inconsistent - fast in some titles, but slow in others. So I wonder if your Forza figure is an aberration from that?
better ram better results for the Igpu?
I think these mini PCs are a very bad idea for anyone on a budget, being able to beat or match an eleven year old GPU isn't impressive, they can barely run modern games and the only upgrade path for the CPU and GPU is throwing it in the bin and buying a new one, refurbished PCs offer much better value.
My girst gaming pc build used a ryzen 3 2200g because my parents didnt alow me to buy an optiplex and gt1030 from ebay. to this day I have the same motherboard and case, everything else I upgraded. If anything, igpus are really good for entry level gaming, and also have a WAY better upgrade path, considering the CPUs by themselfs could probaly handle a 3060.
will you try the Radeon 680M on Resident Evil 4 remake?
for science of course.
Something I've always wondered is whether or not allocating more or less RAM to VRAM for the iGPU matters because when GPUs run out of VRAM they usually just go to RAM anyways. Maybe the RAM you allocate to the iGPU is rearing to go whereas the RAM you have to get after running out of VRAM is taking a nice nap and has latency 😂
😂
Usually the set ram is meaningless for igpu's, they will allocate more memory if needed. My intel iris xe g4 says it only has 128 mb's of memory however it really has 16gb's available due to having 32gb' of system ram. A little confusing but igp's use what's available on the system when it can
@@astralxkitsune3948 Yeah, I figured as much. Makes more sense to allocate the minimum amount so you have more overall system RAM to work with.
@@BrandanFischer while that's true, allocating too little VRAM (think 128MB or less) can lead to instability and artificial software locks. IMO the best bet is setting it somewhere around 1GB.
@@Gabu_ Noted, thanks!
That's kind of impressive for a mobile iGPU, it's really promising
Yeah getting really powerful
@@RandomGaminginHD Even if it’s like a 1050 ti or a RX 6400 in performance it’s still a good sign that APU’s are going in the right direction
it does seem so far that depending of what you play could mean if you were to choose an APU rather than having cpu and gpu seperate
when the new apu's come out in a few months with fsr 3 they will be a 1080p game machine good for laptops and handhelds pretty cool.
Id like to know from your honest opinion if this would be worth buying as a backup/living room gaming PC and id also like to know if you did ever test this on the side at 4gb and 8gb for the Vram because if i order one of these which is on sale right now i plan on installing my own kit of 32gb memory and i have a old 512gb Gen3 NVMe and a 1tb 2.5" SSD id slap into the system.
7970 was an absolute beast in the day I had one n ended up with 2 in cross fire the system was extremely high end in its day
Watching this while using my newly built OC'd XFX 7970 Ghost PC and a 3.8Ghz B75 Triple core phenom II playing some borderlands 1 :)
iGPUs have come a long way, it’s crazy how powerful they are now thanks to the push from AMD
Apparently a 780m is on the way. Looking forward to you hopefully making a video on that.
Is already there but in laptops (7940 and 7840). not seen them in tinypc's yet.
I still have an R9 280 sitting on a shelf. Isn't this the same thing? Darn AMD numberings!
Yep I got a r9 280x I use in a old hp as a media tower / space heater still plays cs go and apex legends pretty decent with nimez drivers
@@79huddy that's what I am talking about!
close but not quite. The R9 280 was like a 7950 boost with different clock speeds. The 7950 has fewer shaders compared to the 7970/280X(1792 vs 2048).
@RandomGaminginHD will you be reviewing/trying one of them Erying motherboards with laptop i9s on them? Seen them pop on on a few UA-camrs pages over the last few weeks. I my self ordered a i5 version from AliExpress and is due to come this week
Yeah definitely
I guess with official driver support the HD 7970 could be closer to the iGPU , but great to see that iGPU's get better and better! 🙂
Maybe, maybe not: he did mention he's using custom updated drivers.
When a 30w igpu can beat a 350w from 12 years ago. Damn tech have progressed alot.
I'm curious about a comparison on the Ryzen 5 5600G's integrated graphics vs a low end GPU, like the RX 6400 or 6500XT. I expect the 6600 would beat the integrated hands down, less sure about the other two.
The 6400 is around 2 to 3 times the performance of the Vega 8 in the 5600g, depending on the game. The 6500xt is obviously, even more powerful.
I'm looking forword to see the 4090 edition of this video in 10 years ;)
Did you use signed driver's.. those nimex drivers allow better compatibility.. but takes performance.. could be like 30%.. was this with the legacy drivers from amd..
You could even overclock the 7970 to see if it makes any difference 🙂👍
The difference between Forza vs gta5 shows it..
G'day Random,
So it took 10 years for the 680M IGP to match the Flagship 7970,
🤔do you think IGPs will match 4080 or 4090 by 2032?
Die size has improved a lot in the last 10 years, It could be possible but a GPUs has improved so much in the later years that I doubt that we will match 4090 on a igpu in 2032.
@@Anas7ergun yeah there used to be huge nm jumps but now we are down to struggling to get more than 1nm per gen so Performance to Power jumps are way smaller.
I agree with not thinking it's possible even if AMD gets a *000G IO + CPU Chiplet + GPU Chiplet APUs in the current Desktop Package size, I am just guessing but think that if you are building Dual Chiplet APUs to get 4090 Level GPU Performance they will need to be the size of Threadripper & using well over 500W.
@@shaneeslick I agree with the size increase but not with the 500w consumption. We could even be having arm processors on our computers since x86 has lot of instructions that aren't used. Just look at the mobile side
why some games like Forza Horizon 5 and GTA V performs a lot different with HD 7970? I have noticed that this also happens even when compare same VGA generation between AMD & Nvidia on some titles
It's incredible to see how far these AMD Ryzen CPUs have come. If I'm going to be completely honest I would have picked one of these up if it was about $100 less.
This is just my opinion but these mini PCs with Steam OS 3 installed would probably make for a pretty successful steam machine especially if Valve can mass-produce them and sell them for about $400 or less. Part of me wonders if steamos can be installed on this (Holo ISO)
With extremely similar hardware and GPU architecture to HoloOS, I have no doubt. Also, someone could install HoloOS with Chimera, which is a direct fork of HoloOS and functions identically to it.
Is the vram usage normal in rdr2?
Wait didn’t you have a 7970 video?
What's that keyboard in the video? I've never seen one like that.
This was just a cheap Logitech wireless keyboard from Argos in the UK haha. Can’t remember the name
@@RandomGaminginHD just weird keyboard design to have the keys over the edge of the board. I feel ike it might be called "infinity" keys(like the pool) in some PR advert. lol
1060 vs 2060 vs 3060? :)
I can't get excited over (relatively) poor performing iGPU's when I remember the PS4/5 and Xbox One/Series have AMD iGPU's
I used to try and play fear on an old pesario laptop. 2008 Dual core intel 2ghz the igpu was just well...
Was a bloody horrid experience. Least the old anthalon desktop could run bf2 at low.
Could you compare this to a SteamDeck? I do believe SteamOS/Linux could give slightly better performance in such hardware.
In most cases, higher framebuffer size does not affect the performance.
It's a bit depressing that a newer IGP is still pretty far behind the dedicated cards in performance.
That newer iGPU is running on a third of the Compute Units the 7970 has. It was also slightly kneecapped by slow DDR5 with bad timings. I'd say for an iGPU it does a damn fine job, certainly a lot better than the intel Iris XE iGPUs can do.
The day an integrated GPU perform about the same as my GTX 980, is the day I will definitely get a new desktop PC (unless my current one breaks before then, lol).
Can u compare an intel iris xe integrated graphics with i7 u-p series with an old gpu
How do I get custom drivers? I struggle to find any for an old card