Why These Champions Almost Never Get Nerfed | League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2023
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Having made a video on "Always Weak" champions last year, I thought it would be cool to make an episode on the "Always Strong" champions and compare why they always remain strong or decent regardless of the meta.
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#LoL #Champions #Balance - Ігри
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Jhin being strong all the time is fine since he’s got clear strengths and weaknesses. While he can be mobile he doesn’t have dashes to save him from divers and assassins, he has incredible burst damage but DPS uptime suffers due to reloading. He’s definitely a straightforward and somewhat honest champ since it requires player skill and team work to set up traps, catches, kills and escapes as Jhin which makes him fun as hell to play
As most pros and designers say: Jhin is prob the best champion design, theme, and art wise lol
same thing with Xayah now. She is off the charts but i don't see the chicken get called often. She is very fair to play against, at least for me.
@@MarianaBello-fq3hx To be fair she does lose range without Rakan I think yeah?
@@XonixDerps no
@@jokerfever2590 I looked it up, she doesnt lose anything but rakan gains E range
Our guy really said "playing against Darius or Anivia isn't annoying" lmao
Right? As a top laner I permaban Darius (and Morde) all the time
Anivia with hourglass is absolutely hell. Literally a "Why won't won't you die!? revival son it activates in contact with physical trauma" moment
@@vnshngpnt main?
I don't think Darius is that bad. Granted there are definitely match ups he out right invalidates, and that's rough as hell but he's never been one of the ones to make me dread life. GP for me personally is the one I never wanna blind into, cause I feel like every time I see one its a gp one trick and I get out scaled into irrelevance
Darius is one of his mains
And he clearly never had to play against Anivia LMFAO
Anivia players be like
*walls + R*
Trade Offer:
Walk Right -> Get stunned
Walk Left -> Get stunned
I think in a fair few of these cases it would be fair to call these champs never weak instead of always strong. Like sona and jhin no one thinks they are overly strong or oppressive they just arnt weak
I think the concept of "always strong" champions should be looked at more as.......a goal perhaps. The idea is, a Champion is so well designed and balanced, that they are happily popular AND viable at the same time. Problem is not every "always strong" champion is actually well designed and balanced - and each has their own unique problems from the perspective of the developer team. The "four horsewomen of top lane" are definitely not balanced, but are popular. Riot could lie how they don't have favoritism or buff around skins, but their actions are clear proof.
Hecarim is volatile due to his design, if they want to fix that they'd have really rework his kit and find a healthier design for his theme and playstyle. Jhin and Darius are more fairly designed, there's a reason Jhin is heralded as the best designed champion ever, high popularity, beloved, and as the video stated: its not horrible to fight him when he's strong. If only every champion could be Jhin.........
Personally, my theory is to design champions for normal gameplay, NOT Pro play. After all, Pros come from the game normally, they use what normal players use - they are incredible talented and skill no matter what. So....why design a champion that ONLY works for like 0.1% of the players? I bet if you give a Pro Player a bucket, they'll find a way to win Pro games with it. I don't care. let 99% of your playerbase play the game normally, and let Pro Players figure it out themselves. They have the time, skill, and money for it!
Great comment other than calling the 4 horse women bad designed and then trying to defend Darius of all things lol.
Hella agree, truly would love to see champ designs or rework using the same design philosophy as jhin
@@daymianhogue1634 Hemmorrage stacks feel like the only thing that makes him annoying, though he has to stack 5 of them to make them work.
Maybe instead of granting him ridolus amounts of AD, it should enhance his abilities and Autos to be useful for him, the only ability that has this is his ult.
I can come up with any good excuse for the Four hoursewomen of the apocalpse, Free combo attacks with no mana cost, 15% MAX HEALTH TRUE DAMAGE, COVERTED physical damage into TRUE DAMAGE, and high amounts of mobility and Healing, mostly the healing is the issue.
@@alexcat6685 lane bully that can turn into pentakill machine and takes little skill is not a good design.
Champion with that takes mechanical skill and rewards it with damage lower than stacked Darius passive... yeah totally bad design. LOL.
@@daymianhogue1634 Darius is weak without sums, only a bully in gold below
The thing about balancing champions is that it's basically a butterfly effect. The smallest change in any champion's kit will to a degree, affect all 160 champions since they all have to interact with each other. People like to complain about the balancing team a lot, but when you put their jobs into context, you'll see how hard it is.
Simple. Stop making champions
@@ogrynmod1765 well u got ur wish
Copium…but also makes complete sense
Thing is, it shouldn't make a butterfly effect. Just because you buff Annie let's say by 5% it shouldn't shift the meta drastically (unless we talk about super tryhard /competitive scene which the average player doesn't cares about). Problem is the incompetent balance team nerfs random champions with seemingly incomprehensible angles. Like nerfing armor by 1 instead of nerfing Q damage
@@alihorda If you lower a (mid-lane) champion's armor, the intention of this is that theyre more vulnerable against assassins and skirmishers, the AD champs that populate mid. Though it effects them more in the side lanes, likewise Kayle's abysmal MR (iirc its like 27-39 base) is specifically to force her away from the mages and AP Assassins in mid lane, so Mid Kayle doesnt proceed to overrun the game *or* cause Kayle in general to receive nerfs to the extent that Top Kayle is unplayable.
Nerfing a jungler's armor is the best way to reduce the overall health they have in the Jungle, especially if they play multiple roles (say, Sylas jungle getting -2 base armor so that he can still go Mid against an Akali etc. with no change, but Jungle Sylas takes more damage and is less effective) and nerfing their AD is the best way to slow down their clears, especially if they have autoattack multipliers or just auto a LOT. (reducing Karthus AD will do nothinig to curb his jungle clears, but -3 AD on Graves slows his clear time down by as much as 20 seconds.)
I was just watching your analysis on sett when this video dropped, and I'm so hype right now because I freaking love how your videos are made and what they are about
Ironically, Seraphine is perpetually strong at Bot APC
Yep, Seraphine support is weaker than Sona because shes not balanced around Support. Shes balanced around Mid and APC, or at least was meant to be. I think Sera mid is dead now since her playerbase is adamant about picking her Support. Nonetheless she still cant get too strong because doing so results in another 58-60% WR Seraphine Mid even if no one plays it
Mages overall.
And seraphine is giga weak on support and mid
Hecarims pick rate fluctuates by his buffs and nerfs because he’s played in the most meta defined role, jungle. The four women of top lane are (from the gameplay view of a gold old Aurelion main) overkitted with how valuable mobility is. Their kits have a decently steep learning curve but when you get over the curve the reward for getting over it is a lot. But I’m gold and only play d tier champs like corki and old asol so my opinion doesn’t matter
from personal experience, hecarim commits a lot to fights. he rushes in and sticks in the middle of the enemy team until either they die or he dies, relying on his W to survive the incoming enemy fire. basically, a jungler who can move around fast out of combat, has crazy engage, and has powerful self healing in teamfights. understandable that he can be difficult to balance. i have played hecarim a lot in ARAM, and my KD with him there is almost never even. either amazing or terrible, rarely even
Heca as champion is always consistent to a point that you can learn his clear really quick, his good clear time is at 3:07 and you can learn to do this consistently, you have time to gank your chosen lane at lvl 4 when rest are lvl 3
That is 420 gold difference in stats alone (every level is worth 420 gold when you start looking value of stats)
Heca is always popular when Graves is popular (like now, atleast in higher elos along side with viego, well seju has started to popping out too when mao got gutted out of the way)
Heca dominated jungle from s6 to half point of s10, that is long time to be able to be dominating force of a jungle champion, and now even after s10 nerfs when he got 4 nerfs, 2 direct and 2 indirect
In s11 heca gained 1 good buff then got 2 nerfs indirectly by items
Even after all this, Heca is back in meta but remember one thing, this version of heca is MUCH, much weaker than his earlier versions yet he still dominates jungle again
4 horsewoman are trash without team
When this happens, it screams mini rework to me. Number bumping only does so much. For instance, I main Kog'Maw. At the start of season 12 I had a 65% wr. Then they nerfd kog and im back down to 51-52% wr. This champ has been like that forever Skarner is in the same boat. Old forgotten powerhouses need refreshing and champs who survive every meta shift need tweaks to define their weaknesses.
The problem seems to be that the higher the Elo the more champ select just wins the game. However certain champs don't realistically have counters because their weaknesses shift throughout the game.
Similar to Jhin, Sona's strengths and weaknesses are also noticeable. You need to punish her early with a blitzcrank or pyke or roam as often as you can if you pick an enchanter against her. Milio right now is probably the only other enchanter who has a similar amount of utility to Sona's but overall Sona is the strongest teamwide enchanter, especially lategame. Not a great first pick, but great against slower lanes
She's basically the Kassadin of supports and demands a heavy emphasis on fundamentals over technical play that gives you no freebies in the early game. As long as she goes even in lane, her mid game let's her stat check the enemy team and keep scaling from there.
So you're 100% right on her having very clear weaknesses and strengths that only become more apparent the longer the game goes.
Fun and fairius is just Riot’s precious child, and they could never have him be balanced
Genuine skill issue + you can't even spell right. Get good dawg
@@justyourdemise_5845 Name one word I misspelled and maybe I can trust the word of a silver that all the high ranked players have been wrong for years now, how about that?
you always explain perfectly how i feel about the game and youre so fair to every champion not having favourites VERY good video
This discussion would drastically change if Riot gave us 2 bans instead of just 1. There are too many champions for 1 ban to be sufficient. It's usually relegated to your hard counter or to whoever is super overtuned this patch. If we got 2 bans, then you could ban both your hardest counter and a champion you're just tired of seeing.
I know this is 5 months old comment but I still will say that they (riot) said that they will not add more bans FOR NOW as certain Champs and champ classes would get perms banned "... Such as yasuo and kaisa.."
If anything that argument tell us how astronomical it's the disconnect between riot and the player base (the real player base, not pros)
@@toobig7150 i feel like it shows something is fundamentally wrong with a champion if Riot is worried that they will get perma banned
Jhin really does feel like a botlaner you don't mind losing to, because it's clearly the skill of the player piloting a well-designed champion rather than someone exploiting something with little to no counter-play. His kit is straightforward, but he has very high skill expression. Getting the right Q bounce that floats for four seconds before it inevitably hits you. Slamming the skinny W as soon a trap goes off. Hitting the ult shots. Every interaction feels like you have a fighting chance, whether it's getting out of a trap or dodging Rs.
Like you said in the previous video, champions that work off discord and chaos do better in solo queue - which makes them feel annoying to play against. It's not so bad to lane against Ashe because her only ace is to pop you in the face with an ult you should literally see coming. But you literally cannot see Twitch.
another thing about jhin: he cannot circumvent his weaknesses by getting fed enough. no matter how strong he gets, he will always have his fixed attack speed and reloading. a fed twitch can circumvent his squishiness with sheer AOE DPS. a fed juggernaut can circumvent their slow speed with ghost and just eating up all the attacks the opponent throws at them. a fed diver has pretty much no weaknesses at all. other champions that are technically fair can still feel oppressive when ahead, but not jhin
@@Underworlder5 Jhin becomes strong through his items and stats, but his weaknesses are embedded in his design and that what keep him healthy. It's a pretty clever design move that most champions don't get nowadays. Also, Jhin has one of the best clarities in the game and that's what makes him fun to play and play against.
There's a reason Aphelios and Zeri are a 200 years champions that has broken and keep breaking the game, when Jhin is classified as imperfectly perfect.
I like always strong champs, because I'm a big bard, rell, and rek'sai player. I think the "healthy" always strong champs (or at least natural ones) have strange or non-standard gameplans. They're always strong because you need to be good at them to make them strong. Like Bard's only thing going for him is that he can build like any item, but he's never op because he doesn't have any good items for any long period of time. It's all about proper usage, rather than the stats of a champion.
Happy to be so early, your content is so relaxing to watch
One of my favorite things to do with Jhin is literally Auto attacking with a Rapid Fire shot as my fourth shot because people think their safe once they reach FOW only to get followed by the increased range last second
Seraphine isn't a better Sona in terms of stats, but in terms of having a ridiculously similar kit that is higher quality and has more interaction. It's basically just taking Sona and giving her skill expression. It is really hard to screw up on Sona when nearly everything is auto-target.
Love the video, but there is one thing I think that is funny, and that is that singed has such a high win rate, when the guy pretty much looses against all opponents in laning phase. That is why people proxy on the guy and hope they can outscale their lane opponent
Some champs need to stay strong for both profit from skins and or playerbase satisfaction...but they only do it based on pick and ban also winrate and lose rate and not direct performance from the casual area but proplay and ranked instead. So nerfs and buffs are for a small or major majority...balance is kinda a mease
Lux lol
@@emptyarms6113lux is honestly under tuned everywhere except support right now and even then she doesn't feel unfair
They don’t buff/nerf based on skins sales lol. By that logic Ez, MF, Ahri, Lux, Annie… would be broken ever single patch since they have the most skins and make Riot the most money.
@@Aliens1337 every champion Buff lines up with skin releases with a 2 week difference at most, if you dont think champions get buffed with skin releases yopu re not even playing the game
@@tremendoshd2356 that’s literally not true. If you average it out, a champion is more likely to be *nerfed* than buffed near to the time of a skin release. That’s just a made up piece of BS that people spew around.
I'll just say this. The minute you balance around pro play only, you are straight up telling your casual audience to leave.
I don't buy that for a minute. Games have been balanced around pro-play ever since pro-play was a thing. You balance around pro play because then you know that it's at least *balanced* at all levels. When a game is balanced around low-level play it's very easy to get to a point where very specific characters are extremely dominant with little to no counterplay because people are pushing them to their absolute limits. Balance a sniper around low-level play and they turn the game upside down at top level. Are most players going to experience top-level play? No. But it's the best way we have to ensure that everything works regardless of the skill level. Are high-execution characters going to be bad in low-level play? Absolutely, but people will still play and enjoy them anyway.
That being said, low-level play shouldn't be outright ignored either. Sometimes there's a character or strategy whose counterplay requires far more skill investment than what's put in to execute that strategy, so even if that character is "bad" at high level, that character will be very dominant in low-level play, and these characters should absolutely be watched very carefully.... If something is bad in low level play but good in high level play, it's A-OK, but if something is dominant in low-level play but bad in high level play then someone might need some adjustment.
Basically what I'm saying is that getting to 150+ champions was a mistake and this game will never be balanced.
I am really fine with the ever strong champions, because they have clear weaknesses and fortitudes.
If you are a high elo player you know how to defeat them, and the player who is playing them needs to be more creative and have a better sense in game to cover they weakness, and thats make a more funny and challenging game than opressive strats, for example Azir on proplay always is an opressive only farm champ that play macro with the team to win.
meanwhile Talon sitting at a 4% playrate and 46% wr jungle Rito: We must nerf him more
Jhin and Darius feel like they're just... perfectly in tune. Maybe it's something about their straightforward, no-nonsense kits that makes them easier to tweak just a little at a time, as well as being easy to learn to play and play against.
I wish more champions could sit in that niche, Jhin is one of my favorite champs but few other champions just click as well and as comfortably as he does
darius is oppressive and frustrating to play against when ahead, but otherwise he is fine. if he loses lane and your team does not feed him, there is not much he can do to catch up, and he has to play by the rules of a juggernaut. there is a reason why everyone runs ghost on him, and that is because low speed combined with short range is an incredibly exploitable weakness. all the DPS and bulk in the world does nothing when you cannot even reach your opponent
"Only [people who play Singed] who want to watch the world burn"
Lehends: And I took that personally
The day my fellow Azir and Ryze main brothers get to be part of the "always strong" group will be glorious.
Great video =) as always.
Can you do a poll to see the average elo of your viewers?
love how darius has been s+ all of season 12 and 13 and still has not been touched
Only noobs feed Darius ~ Trues that are to hard to swallow
@@ivifernando4488 yeah you are not safe unless you are under your tier 2 turret
As a darius main I can assure you in season 12 he got his Q heal reduced.
S+ is place for things like amumu and maokai. Darius is S or top of A.
@@ivifernando4488 xddddddddddddd
as a hardstuck iron 4 player i disagree that iron-plat are all the same rank, iron is an entirely different game where you absolutely stomp your game but your mid tristana has 12 deaths and your bottom lane has 9 deaths all the while you were playing sett into a jax and somehow won lane against him but team was terrible so you lost the game anyway. story of my last game in iron.
Yeah, for me is something like
Iron = bad
Bronze/silver = still bad but less
Gold = mid
Plat = good
Low diamond = great
High diamond = amazing
Master/grandmaster = not humans anymore
You would be surprised how many of my plat games are exactly like this. XD
Tbh, I feel they are almost the same, the difference is that in platinum it doesn't happen THAT often.
You are delusional if you think you will get better teammates in higher elos. I play in plat 1 and it's the same thing, players might be better but they tend to till easily and feed the enemy to oblivion.
people who say that just say it to feed their ego a bit; theres a massive gap between bronze and silver even. just not a noticable gap for the actual high rank players
Who would have thought that you lose a game because 2 out of 3 lanes lost?
I think really mind any of these. I think annoying champs like Akshan, which usually are annoying because they are incredibly overloaded, are a much bigger problem in the game than the always good or bad ones. Yone, Zeri and so on.
Hmm, should we wait for another regions video? I personally wait for the shadow isles most.
You definitely need always strong Champions since we have auto fill. If you're a Top main that got autofilled Supp, it's always good to have a beginner friendly and reliable pick like Sona. You might not be able to play like normal Sona mains but with how simple her kit is and item recommendation in the shop, you should still be able to somewhat contribute to the team rather than losing the game because it's a 4v5.
i disagree, this is not about strengh its about easy to use, sona is not just strong she is easy as well, the same cant be apllied to jhin for example, its better for a begginer as ADC to pick something like caitlyn instead of him as hes dificult to master
Doing my boy azir like that in the intro, all too true.
Jhin is an incredibly oppressive lane bully who scales into a ranged Assassin with permanent 600 movement speed, but he’s just so gosh darn perfect that it’s okay! He has single-handedly broken several items/runes, to the point where they had to be made much worse for everyone else just so he would stop abusing it.
Aren't you mistaking him with Ezreal about items and runes?
@@FranciscoJG No, they've both done it before
"While the four waifus of toplane are always in proplay"
Well; Riven's not.
I suppose I am (sort of) all right with the balance situation in game. The balance team has an EXTREMELY difficult job, and it is also a THANKLESS one too. They are just doing the best they can, and because they are human they mess up every once in a while.
Nice vid bro
Approx 22 hours after upload: New skinline announced, featuring yet another legendary skin for Riven
That's how league runs
*me omw to int on jhin for the sake of a 44.44% winrate*
There is a running joke that darius has never been nerfed, if you read his patch notes the last nerf that was not reverted within the next two patches was 10.6, he was even buffed post durabilty on his ultimate, in masters he has been rank 1-5 for alsmost 3 years, ie watch the druttrut LS clip about darius
Riven is RARELY picked in pro play. Camille hast been seen in pro play for a long time as well. RIven is picked exclusively by former riven 1 tricks. Irelia and Fiora are popular staples though.
I mean right now the meta top laners beat Camille in lane champs like jax renekton kasante Gwen it makes sense why she’s not picked a lot irelia is super conditional the enemy team needs to have no cc for her to play other wise she’s useless in team fights unless she’s giga fead fiora has been played recently because she doesn’t really have losing matchups just skill and pro don’t play champs that beat her like Akshan for example riven hasn’t been picked since season 3 honestly but then again pro’s don’t always pick what’s good I mean look at udyr his probably the best champion in the game turbo broken and hasn’t been picked once
Irelia is one of the most bait pro play champs rn and is not picked at all (rightfully so). Riot has been able to change her around enough where she’s strong in soloq and not worth using in pro play. The only one of the four horsewomen that is *consistently* in pro play is Camille, and that is simply due to the existence of Gnar. As long as Gnar exists in the meta, so does Camille. Fiora comes and goes, but has a dedicated pro playerbase of people who just like the champion and will pick her even when she’s not meta.
Riven is just unviable in pro play. Even previous Riven OTPs can’t make her work anymore. The champ just doesn’t work in a coordinated environment when she thrives in chaos and discoordination.
@@infiniteearth6996 Reworked Udyr is unavailable in 2022 Worlds. No one picked him because they literally aren't allowed to pick him.
I'm pretty sure that the DotA 2 balance team pretty much only goes off of pick/ban rate for who to focus on buffing/nerfing. If a hero is constantly being picked they try to find out why and then adjust them based on that, if a hero is never being picked or banned they find out why and adjust them similarly, and its not always just a matter of changing numbers but adjusting what their abilities do or even really tiny things you wouldn't normally think about like movespeed or base armor adjustments.
Sometimes its something so tangential as an item rebalance that suddenly makes a hero that likes that item becoming more relevant and appealing.
I think League's balance and design teams should really take some pages out of the icefrog book of balancing because it works pretty nicely for both pro and soloque as far as I've seen. There's always gonna be outliers (Slark is a soloqueue nightmare because of his snowball, Rikimaru too because of his perma-stealth and the soloque inability to buy wards or dust, bristleback and tiny are soloqueue stompers, being tanky and hard for inexperienced players to deal with, and you're never gonna see a particularly good Meepo or Arc Warden because of the micromanagement and game knowledged required) yet it rarely feels overtly oppressive and I see a pretty varied spread of heroes being picked across many games, much more than League where every game has a Yone/Jhin/4horsewoman/Yasuo/Jax/Seraphine/etc.
4 horsewomen always in pro play? Would be cool to see Riven prescience in pro play lol
I remember darius being buffed before 2018 worlds and as far as I know he hasn't been directly nerfed since, also what is that animation at 0:32?
Ironically, all garen has to do IS walk up to you and you die zero counterplay, IF he gets fed, if he doesn’t he is just nothing
Yup, and in higher elos Garen rarely ever gets a lead from laning phase so he just does almost nothing in mid game
Garen's splitpush is okay but not comparable to Jax Trynd Fiora Yorick etc
That ASol gameplay at 1:40 os from a BR streamer called Olkaida, don't really know who is raylols
Everyone loves to play hecarim one of the coolest champs so when he is playable Everyone jumps in
i'm glad to main riven. her lore is one of the best in the game and she will be treated completly different from unpopular champs because she is waifu material. i can just chill knowing that at least she won't be unplayable anytime soon.
totally agree on lore
"riven notoriously known for her bed win rate in low elo with 47.1%"
my boy azir crying with his 45-46% winrate *sniff*
9:40 i wanna see riven in pro play
"People would rather have Anivia be strong than Akshan since Anivia isn't as annoying to deal with"
*Casually perma bans Anivia because she's the most annoying champion in the game*
Vars subtly calling 95% of his audince trash, but it's subjective
And he's right
@@EddyConejo That he is xd
If there is at least one person better than you, you can be considered trash . But better than you is also subjective. A challenger top lane can be very different than a challenger adc. Like comparing apples and oranges,and if you consider being good at solo queue, it is a good thing or just a natural result of all that time and effort. Even after that, there's pro play to consider, as well as the being the best a pro play doesn’t make you the best at solo queue or vice versa. One is being the best teammate, and the other is being able to deal with a lot of random teammates .
Long story short, Better is a very broad term that doesn't really mean much aside from an unhealthy coping mechanism people have with this game.
@@JoseGuerrero-tk5xf Brother you should really consider how bad at the game the average league player is. Remember that silver is the average, and silver players suck most of the time.
@@EddyConejo saying that silver and plat is the same is just wrong ... put a plat player in silver and he is wrecking everyone ... is he a good palyer? No , but way better than silver
ya but nothing feels worse than going against a Darius who knows when to ghost. hes been my parma ban when i play top for almost 5 years now! or when ever his rework happened. really dont remember when that was.
Ok if hard to play champions should their difficulty to play taken into account how is Riven allowed to have a >50% winrate despite their onetricks claiming she has one of the highest skillfloors ? Either she isn't that difficult or (more likely) she is so turbo broken that she can become an auto win against melee picks. Which one is it ? Or a mix of both ?
riven is a snowball. if she gets ahead she is unstoppable. if she falls behind she is useless. not a very healthy kit to me, but she does have dedicated defenders and is "technically" balanced
@@Underworlder5 Yes i know and it is cool that so many players love her and she IS fun to play ngl. But so many champions with no range have insane high scalings. And thats what causing snowballing. I also know it is hard to balance the game without making all those champions like Riven and Assassins absolute unplayable.
The really questionable thing is this: Riven is known to be a onetrick champion. How exactly does she have one of the highest pickrates in toplane, the highest pickrate toplaner in master+ even with 10,5% (obviously while holding a 53% winrate).
I dont mind onetrick champs being strong on low pick rates. Kled is the perfect example. 10,5% pickrate however, higher than any "everyone plays" toplaner ... feels wrong
Jhin mainly works in solo not due to how consistent he is but how unlikely he is to be punished due to his weakness being people who stack armors aka no popular champ in solo q
Can u make a video explaining why certain champions are always viable on pro play like Azir Jax etc
Overpowered
@@conniefan123 azir is meh outside of pro play
What about thresh? feels like the most balanced sup
Senna is more balanced (unplayable), thresh can at least abuse being tanky while senna doesn't scale anymore and she cant kill anyone who builds 1 armor item lul
her W cant save her, her E cant save anyone, its insane how useless her kit is when she has to fight a toplaner like irelia or darius or literally anyone with any type of engage that does not rely on being yuumi
Ever gone AD thresh? It's so fun with items that build off of sheen, energized attacks, and maxing E first
What’s ur opinion on Samira? I personally think she’s a balance nightmare of ADC; make her strong and she oneshots ur entire team before u can touch her, make her weak and she gets popped amidst 5 enemies before she can do anything.
Currently though, fuck that champ.
I feel compelled to comment here. I agree entirely. I would never put her anywhere near the champs I think need to be deleted, but her kit is very volatile. In my own games and those I've seen, it isn't uncommon for her to lose lane, have only a few kills, and then randomly get a penta at like 30+ minutes into the game. I think the issue is that ADCs are meant to be able to shred anything if given the time, and she happens to be AOE with dash resets. So like you said, either she can kill everything in a few seconds, or she kills nothing and dies. Also, side note: I despise wind-wall mechanics, and wish that was just a yasuo exclusive.
The main thing is that she, like Darius, is a pub stomper but gets destroyed in coordinated play or against certain team comps. I don't think it's really a balance problem, moreso that she's a short ranged skrimisher which means she will always be infinitely weaker than other adcs against poke, cc, and peel, but stronger at snowballing.
@@myonionatemydog3916 on botlane she builds shieldbow that doesnt really feel bad to play against other champions. But in Samiras case, she builds ninja tabis too, so she tanks so so much and does not lose damage for it. So in a "traditional" bot lane with an actual support, you cant do anything against samira because she has the upper hand at reacting to crucial abilities effectively deleting them. And she is not like draven etc that she deserves her snowbally strength, she just has to weave autos that any champ does. So she really is a balance problem if you think with how much she can get away with
I think three of the most important criteria for which champions can be overpowered without it being a problem are 1. clear counterplay, 2. being unpopular and 3. being simple/low elo skewed. Darius is fine at a 52% win rate because you can still kite him, Akali at 52% win rate is a problem because that translates to like a 55% win rate at high elo. unpopular champions can be high win rate and no one cares because no one ever plays them, so even when they're crazy OP, they don't feel like a mandatory ban and they don't show up in every game
personally, i find that darius also struggles in short, bursty fights unless there is a convenient low HP enemy to ult. he has to land five hits on the same enemy, and his bread-and-butter combo only lets him land three stacks. he needs extended combat to be truly effective, so a burst team that can keep him from getting ahead will have an easy time with him
@@Underworlder5 this is true, unless he's ahead or builds tanky in which case bursting him becomes very difficult because he'll just stack you then hook you back in when you try to run. that being said burst champions like renekton can definitely be brutal matchups for him.
9:11 I remember when renekton got his legendary skin they turbo nerfed him lmao
Not many people have a problem with Darius and garen is the most controversial statement of the century
0:39 Yup out of the 100% pick/ban rate but also out of the pick rate at all x)
My baby got 1,4% pick rate and 44.6% win rate. In pro play only has a positive win rate in one region ( LCK).
Cannons looking at you like they are the champions nowadays I swear.
(44.6 in plat +
43.4 in iron+
45.6% in diamond+
47.2% in master+ ...
If you are correct, that is ground for an immediate buff but it won't.)
If a champ is strong but has clear counterplay im really fine with it.
For example Lux is only strong if she hits her Q on you.
But then you have Master Yi with 2 supports in the background who does true damage and and crits you away with 2 autoattacks.
Not even Rammus can endure that
I have no problem with balancing around high elo instead of low elo. My issue is with balancing around proplay thats when the game becomes unfun. Those dudes ban and play the same 22 Champs till they are destroyed for everyone else then they move on to something else and riot never helps those other Champs they destroyed because thier pickrate could spike.
No, you HAVE to balance around the highest level of play. Because if you balance even at high elo, you will end up with combos, team synergies, and macro strategies that are just plain unbeatable. Yes pro play is a team of 5 players, but you seem to forget that there is a 5-stack queue that normal people can play too.
If your problem is with the low number of champs, that's just part of game theory. The maximum number of independent entities you can theoretically balance perfectly is right around 25. Even if your criterion is "good enough balance" it becomes impossible after 50.
@@jyashin my problem is that certain champions are forever knee capped by proplay. If you fuck around and pick one of those Champs at random to really like. your experience is forever tied to some unentertaing bullshit you care nothing about.
Riot keeps trying to sell the idea that we play the same game as the pros do and that's what makes league so special. But we don't. Not everyone has a five stack to play with not everyone has professional coordinated tactics. Majority of people in this game are just soloq. And they just want to play the character they really really enjoy both at low and high elo.
Tying our experience to their whims that are based on how efficiently they can win so they make money makes our game just as unfun as pro play except we don't make money!
@@jyashin that's true and all but top level soloq and pro play are not even remotely similar
_'Better Nerf Irelia "_ still lives up to this day. 🔪🔪🔪
What are your thoughts on Darius and Garen being picked in worlds?
Always strong champions are generally either: a) well designed, and so can be tuned to be good without being overbearing for a pretty wide skill bracket (ex. Jhin). b) Popular enough that riot doesn't want to destroy their viability and not far enough out of line that they need to do something about it (ex. Darius).
Forgot to mention Hasagi brothers, Lux, MF, Ezreal and other champions that doesn't get nerfed because of skins. Rather they getting buffs before getting new skin, what seems weird to " competitive game"
Ah yes a champ with an execute from like 80% hp after 1 q that resets. Gotta love Darius
Thing is he doesn’t really doesn’t do much, like Camille can do much more then Darius.
@@tempermen6032 Camille is significantly easier to deal with in a team fight
@Tempermen Yeah Darius just runs I'm there and does an aoe
@@teriiyaki_god3062 I hope you're joking
@@tempermen6032 I mean gotta say Darius is a fucking nuisance to the game such as Garen or Nunu or Annie or any easy champ is. Like they get so much stuff for free with no needed skill or anything keeping in check just how easy they are. I really don’t like playing against them, if I die against an azir or nidalee I know that the player playing them had to do smth right and not just turning their brains off in champ select, locking in an easy champ and playing a game a 3 y/o can play
Darius is my permaban. I don't think he's hard to face at all but I can get out of laning phase ahead and my team will 100% of the time straight up run into him blow flashes and die because they didn't have vision then blame me for feeding him and suddenly it's my fault if we lose or the team's so great for carrying me if we win. Again, all this even though I was 2/0 exiting laning phase.
Edit: inb4 "Why not match his roams?" 1. I'm freezing and I have been for the last 2 minutes, check his farm he's down 30. 2. If it's after 15 minutes don't talk to me I have a hullbreaker and I'm rapidly approaching their Nexus while you guys fiddle around in mid lane and die trying to invade enemy blue side with no vision when all the camps are down and there's no objective.
YES!
This is why I hate matching toplaners like Darius, no matter how good I play the lane whether with no deaths or with kills its always a problem for the rest of the team to not forget they(toplaners) still have kill pressure in their kit like an execute, a reset or sustain no matter how far behind they are
As a darius main, i agree. Even if the enemy laner does great against me im just gonna look for the weak point in yalls team and get fed anyways
The point is, top laners know what do to against their matchups. It's the most skill expressive lane, and demands the most knowledge of individual matchups.
The other lanes lack this experience and knowledge and straight up die against top laners. You might complain you died against 3 levels ahead Darius, while you as a support let him stack on you, and your ADC barely kited, but your Camille is stomping his ass. So it's really the champ's fault?
@@conniefan123 i don’t understand these kid’s copium. like you said you have to look for weaknesses to exploit them, you can’t just turn off your brain and boom a penta. if darius is broken bcs your teammates are bad then darius is not broken, your teammates are just bad.
That happens alot when im playing illaoi and like 0/3 or 0/4 . Enemy jg and mid gank together as im so behind and seem like a free kill. Well guess what.never gank an illaoi near her tentacles XD
i think jhin being always strong is a problem because he should have a 44.44% winrate
I said it before I will say it again. In pro play. Once a champ is picked it should not be allowed to be picked again and if a champ is banned it is banned in 3 games or 5… it would make pro game much better ti watch
I have a 63% winrate on anivia, I'm completely fine with her staying strong :D
As a Singed main I feel called out.
idea for a hecarim buff/nerf: +/-1 MS
Low elo Riven main here. For my experience, the reason why Riven is so bad in low elo is not because I don't know how to play her - I animation cancel/outplay solo opponents all the time, it's actually because the enemy team never, and I mean NEVER, huddle up closer than a mother does her infant newborn during teamfights, which is Riven's lategame win condition. From what I've seen from Riven players in lower ranks, they often play with as little risks as possible, knowing they'll never get that 3-5 man stun.
Lower rank opponents always space out correctly even as they group, incentivizing me to go crit and pick one off instead of going bruiser and hoping for them to eventually use super glue, which is commonplace in high elo. I always watch high elo Riven players wait until they can stun 5 enemies at once with a R3rdQ combo followed up by an R2W, stunning everyone and hitting all of them at once, resulting in at least one kill that can easily translate into the infamous Riven pentakill. This NEVER happens in low elo, because lower elo players actually somehow know how to counter Riven, who's far more abstract than the champions who excel in lower ranks, yet is just as exploitable as the likes of Garen. I'm not saying low elo players are better than those in high elo, I'm just giving my thoughts.
Edit: The Riven clips in this video are very much high elo, because the enemy team members are not respecting a fed Riven's damage, and instead of melting her down via spacing and kiting, they go in one by one with low health, guaranteeing Riven's quadra in the clip at 12:02.
Ah yes the wholesome, gigachad, alpha male, reddit,based bruiser Darius( pdf file)
Personally I think Riven and Darius are just left alone because changes to them can drastically change their play/win rates over the past few seasons they have been getting less and less balance changes and have been fairly stable in the meta because their gimmick is abusing mistakes and people overstepping.
Thanks.
As long as they don’t overstep their boundaries
Consistent 53%+ WR Karthus adc: I’m gonna pretend like I didn’t hear that
Can you make a video, where you talk about: Why adc role sucks? I mean every skillshots and spells have bigger range, than 500-700 units, and the 75% of the champs have some dash/jump. Tristana and Vayne are the only who can protect themself effectly. Or you can go in with Samira/Nilah, but they are melee characters.
ADC role doesn't suck, lol. Only pisslo shitters think so.
Jhin is just perfect
My personal "why tf does he never get nerfed" champ is GP
If he gets slightly ahead during laning phase he oneshots all squishies and deals insane damage to tanks.
If he gets stomped in laning phase he deals anywhere from 50-70% of max hp to squishies and can still fare against tanks although he's unable to kill them .
He has aoe oneshot combo on a non ultimate ability that also slows cause why not.
He has a get-out-of-jail-free card that also heals him .
Although he is a close range champ, his barrels can deal with the vast majority of long range opponents (in late) and deal massive damage to them killing them without him needing to come up close to them.
If he does come up close, he also gets a burn cause he obviously needed more damage on top of the oneshot wombo combo and his plain q.
And pls don't come at me with the "just hit the barrel lmao"
1st: Decent to good gp players can set up barrels behind walls and set you up to get oneshot without even having time to react (at best if you have good reflexes you can flash).
2nd: Even bad GP players can camp bushes near objectives with barrels set up and oneshot you before you even realize wtf happened. And if you say that you shouldn't facecheck a bush when the ONLY person whose whereabouts are unknown on the enemy team is GP, then i implore you to wait for the tank on your team that forgot drake was up or straight up lose the drake cause you were indecisive and the enemy team secured the drake pit. This obviously applies to every elo with the exception of pro play and *maybe* the top challenger games since the your comms in Solo Queue are way reduced compared to voice comms
3rd: While you can hit the barrels it only takes 1 mistake and 1 lucky break for GP to hit your team once and obliterate them losing the lead or even the game.
The only reason his ultimate is not literally the weakest part of his kit is because it has global range. Once again, cause why not.
Idk either cut the damage with his barrel and maybe even his Q or remove the heal on his W, remove the slow on the barrel and cut the range on his ult to like half the map.
A champ can't be a oneshot machine, have slows and a healing cleanse AND have an ability that gives him pressure on the other side of the map.
I seriously don't get why people don't play tryndamere sure he gets kited but you can just run away with you're insane mobility sure he can get cced but you can use enchants I mean he gets countered by tank builds and tanks but when you're playing mid that's a not a common thing as you can just ban yone and malphite
Surely WNOP Cassiopeia is next…
I’m curious why league doesn’t have an option for voice chat ?
if champion have clear strength and weakness (jhinn, darius, singed, sona) it is good. If champion have so insane high skill ceiling that even tiniest buff invoke '100% pro' it is good to keep it on low end in pubs. There will always be 'pubstomper' and 'propick' in MOBA type of game where communication and individual skills make 'broken' strategies and there will be always some niche pick that by metric look like broken one (in any way - it might be too weak by metric or too strong) but it is due to how niche it is (old ASol would be in this category).
My main issue with those champion balance in LoL is not actually champion in itself, it is stubborness of RIOT in refusing to integrate voice comms in game which should flatten curve for both 46-48% and 52-55% champions. Some (most) of those champions would be indirectly buffed or nerfed by simply adding voice and that would be good... Since most of those +53 basically rely on uncoordination of enemy and most of weak ones are in such spot due to lack of coordination with your own team.
Though then I realised how big part of LoL audience talk and I started to understand riot thinking.
empowered AA video
To sumarize: If it isn't played on pro-play, it won't be nerfed
10:40 see I don't fully agree with this, micro skill is noticeable between player in bronze and player in platinum on a large scale
but to climb up above it you need better macro, macro is game knowledge aka knowing more stuff than your peers makes you able to climb faster
for example: fighting against a Jax top lane he jumps on you and uses his e, a bronze player may not notice that they're in danger right now and are continuing to fight, a plat+ player tries to avoid getting stunned and a higher ranked player punishes him for using his e early by knowing that it's now on cooldown and therefore Jax is low on battle power.
OR a low rank player will just place a ward in a brush but a high rank player will place it optimally in the brush, not every spot in the brush is optimal ward placement.
Stuff like this is easy to notice when changing ranks
I'd group the ranks as follows:
iron bronze- bad game knowledge, average micro
silver, low gold- below average game knowledge, good micro
high gold, plat 4- average game knowledge, good micro
plat 3, 2, 1, dia 4- good game knowledge, great micro
dia 3,2,1- great game knowledge, excellent micro
master+- excellent game knowledge, excellent micro
the more game knowledge you have the easier it is to climb for you however it's not that hard for a silver player to beat a high plat player in lane, but they'd still suck at translating that lead they got themselves
there is a huge difference between a plat player and a bronze or iron
if all ppl who play jhin would be really true mains they would make sure he has a 44% winrate
Riot always says they are balancing for proplay but when it comes to the 4 horsewomen of top they are acting like they dont exist. I swear RIVEN needs to have energy , theres nothing in her kit that should make her a manaless champion
Ok but what about Graves? Has he ever been weak?
i think it absolutely makes sense to have two different versions of the game. gold and below and plat and above. that would promote golds and below to branch out and try new things since the actual meta doesn't mirror their patches & also promote playing for fun as opposed to playing for ranking.
Yeah, now imagine Bob123 mains ryse in gold and loves the champion. Bob123 improves overtime, gets better at the game and at the champion, and FINALLY hits plat. And then all of a sudden Bob123 realizes the in the plat+ version Ryse is super nerfed compared to the gold- version, and he now needs double the effort to play his beloved main because hes too good to play the unnerfed version of the character. No one would want to climb on those conditions, that would be awful.
Nah, just divide pro and SoloQ and that's it
Anyone else seeing xayah walking on air in the end
It's simpler than that. They match 2 criteria: 1. They are not pro picks. 2. They are not flex picks, I.E. they stick to one lane.
That's pretty much it.
I would 100% rather play vs 52% wr jhin than 47% wr yone
Lol, Olkaida being featured as a ASol main. BR BR hue
Btw, for how long does jhin feel strong? Cus I remember playing him in 2020 I think and he never really felt that way. He is probably at his best atm, right? Only long range/safe adcs are being picked cus the role is ass.