Definitely a Healthy Mind for me. I'm 24 with a body of a 60 year old from a Spinal injury I had when I was 17. My body is already ruined, so I wouldn't mind still being a sarcastic arse when I'm 90.
I would take healthy body (Don't take this answer as me whining about my life. It's just me appreciating being in good shape) I was in ridiculously good shape a couple of years ago. Almost to an unbelievable extent, both in strength and endurance. Even the doctors asked me if I took any drugs or something (I didn't). But I got testicular cancer, and by the time I noticed, it had already spread. And with some further bad luck, it ended up taking a lot longer time to get cured than what it usually does. When the whole thing was over, my back and right shoulder was, and still is super fucked up. And a side-effect from chemotherapy is tinnitus, and the tinnitus I got now is so fucking bad that it sounds like a damn fire-alarm going of. I am cured now, but to be honest. If I could choose to either be cured, or live only one more year in the shape I was, but then pass away. I'd take the latter
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. But people in concrete houses can do whatever the fuck they want, including being a hypocrit! :D
Every ten years, I notice that, ten years ago I was an idiot. It seems to me that keeping the mind from when you were 30 is massively limiting yourself.
On the day of my 17th birthday my very elderly Grandfather said to me" You're 17 but the sad thing is that in here (He tapped his temple with an arthritic finger) So am I"
I work in a Nursing home only as a cleaner but I still talk to the residents and I can easily say I'd prefer the mind, from varying levels of walking with a frame to wheelchair bound my favorite people to interact with are always the ones who have kept their marbles, there's one woman who is quite able bodied for her age still, has a wonderful singing voice but is deep into dementia and her lucid moments are just the saddest times around her
Inagine how many oldsters would be horribly ill from filth borne pathogens if you weren't there to perform your duties...never feel shame for your occupation, it's at least as important as the medical staff, if not more so!
Cleaners are important. Very. You give dignity back to those that cannot take care of their hygiene anymore Besides, there are dirtier (and more evil) jobs: journalist, reality tv producer, embassador, working in an apple store...
I agree with the sentiments of the other people replying to your comment. Don't think of your self as "only" a cleaner. (Just look at what happened to the Golgafrinchans after they sent their (among others) telephone sanitisers away on Ark B. They all died from a virulent disease spread by dirty telephones.) But seriously, I'm sure your simple interactions with the residents assist with their well being. You are doing a valuable service to their emotional well being while at the same time providing a safe and clean environment for them to live in.
John Redican it'd be hard because I feel like discussing deep, thought provoking ideas would be difficult if you did it online. Doing it face to face allows you to quickly throw out ideas, making it fun and even a learning experience.
@J Redfield ive had barely a handful of pleasant experiences with people online. I think just like in the real world most people are by no means as educated as they like to convince themselves and would rather argue than learn. Find yourself the right life partner and you won't need to use the internet to find cognitive stimuli
Begins video talking about choosing a healthy body or a healthy mind Finishes the video talking about the infidelity of wives All of this in seven minutes This is why i am subscribed to you
My father is 80, and his mind is (almost) totally sound. He has some memory loss but compared to some he is just as he was as a young man. His body, on the other hand, is very much the body of an 80 year old. He has a motorcycle he can't ride, cigars he can't smoke, and many other things that he wishes he was able to enjoy but can't. It looks like torture. I've seen the horrors of dementia, and while I wouldn't wish it on anyone it does seem to prevent the mind from being held back by a frail body. Life is certainly strange.
My great grandma is turning 100, she is still giving valid business advices and political analytics to me and my mom, though with a touch of 1920 education. But her prediction of social trends is very accurate.
Years ago I would have said keep the mind. However after working with the intellectual disabled children I got to say there is something for the old ignorance is bliss idea. To them they are not disabled in any way, we are just all extra smart which is kind of a nice way to look at things.
have you ever known someone SLOWLY losing their mind though? It's quite a different experience. You are aware you're not what you used to be, you know your mind fails you and you are utterly helpless against it. I've watched it happen to my grandma for a few years now. She's miserable every day because she is aware that he mind's worse and worse and she can do nothing to stop it.
@@rozamunduszek4787 I'll be 25 in a few weeks. From the end of high school to now i've felt my brain degrading bit by bit as a result of depression and stagnation. I was on an upward trend recovering it up until I caught Covid late last year; dementia-like symptoms are a long term difficulty many face as a result of the virus, myself included. I've improved since it first began but I know it's so much harder for me to process information now, my memory isn't as efficient (difficulty retrieving information, some bits are just blank), and I don't know if it'll ever be what it was. I want it to come back; I fully intend to work at getting it back, but its such a deeply helpless feeling to know what I had and feel it there but not be able to use it.
@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger I feel ya! I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I thankfully haven't caught covid but I've been battling depression since my teenage years (I'm 25 now) and I definitely had the symptoms you describe! I felt my mind slip from me, I have trouble recalling things, I have difficulty staying focused and processing things. My thoughts feel muddy and so slow compared to what they used to be. Last 2 years I've been doing better, even tried going back to uni but had to drop out because it was too much stress, both socially and academically, compounded by the fact I know for sure that at 15 I would have excelled at uni even though it's obviously more challenging than high school but now when I'm supposed to be more intellectually capable than when I was a teenager, I'm ever worse. Now I have to fight my brain foreverything, thinking, remembering, focusing. I'm somewhat winning because now it's definitely better than it was even a couple years back but still not as good as it had been when I was a teen. I'm terrified of catchhing covid because of the dementia-like symptoms because I watched my grandma's mind slip and I'm absolutely terrified of it happening to me and losing all the progress I achieved in the last few years. I hope you take care of yourself and manage to reclaim your mind!
I would, without hesitation, choose a healthy mind. Having had a few hard years i've gotten to appreciate what a wonderful thing your mind is and having the clarity of a 30 year old self, throughout my life, would truly be a blessing. Having the ability to remember wonderful moments when the world seems dark, understand what happens around me and just generally have my own self being intact for such a long time would be really very nice.
orandum est ut sit mens sana in corpore sano I always understood this to be a mockery of the body fixation of his time. kind of like: Would it not be nice if there were a healthy mind in those healthy bodys.
Reminds me of an old joke: A man, a bottle, blah-blah, so a Genie says: - I can bestow upon you great wisdom, or I can give you great riches. Choose now! - Okay, give me wisdom! * magic * - Now you are the most wise man in the land. What sayeth you, oh wise one? - I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE MONEY!!! * Sob *
I would go with the mind rather than the body. Your body can last you a long time as long as you take good care of it (diet and exercise wise). It should also be considered that mental ailments are generally harder to treat than physical ones. In my opinion, and based off experiences with people I know, I would rather have a healthy mind in an aging body than a broken mind in an otherwise healthy body.
I'm watching this almost a year later, but this question hits so close to home with my experience that I feel like I must share my point of view. Due to a chronic illness I've had the chance to experience both extremes. Having a functional mind but a non-functioning body is pretty awful, feeling the limitations of having the words in my head but no actual way to express them is beyond frustrating, and not being able to go and do is extremely boring. Like cabin fever 24-7. Visits are lovely, I don't even care if I hate you, I just needed real actual people interactions! However, I would absolutely choose a healthy mind no matter what the chances of keeping both if I gambled with the other. Losing the ability to think clearly was far, far more limiting, and even though time slipped away from me, and I wasn't cognisent enough to be bored, I still knew enough to know that I was missing out and that I was a huge burden on those taking care of me. I still knew that this wasn't right or normal. I couldn't live, all I did every day was survive. I am very glad that period was relatively brief because I constantly found myself questioning the point of living if it was going to be like that for the rest of my life. Even if my body was functional I could quite literally do nothing except use up resources. I was getting lost and frustrated trying to follow short UA-cam videos with no words, so even zoning out at TV wasn't an option. It was a strange and awful torture. Before anyone asks, I still wouldn't choose to die instead, I just didn't know what the point was if I couldn't do more than exist. Now that I think about it, I actually had to make this kind of choice for real. I have a medication I take that makes one of my symptoms of debilitating pain much worse. However, while on it I felt like I woke up for the first time in ten years. I can't overstate how much I adore being able to think again, or how many strange small things that I never realized made a huge impact in my quality of life that were directly related to my declining brain function. So between the two I chose to live with the pain so that I could keep my mind. Luckily I'm reacting well to new pain treatment so when combined with everything else that we found I'm really doing great right now! I hope I never have to make that choice again, but I won't be changing my mind about it.
This is a really interesting idea and something I've thought about before. As an adult in my early 20's with health issues for the past decade which are slowly resolving but will never fully go away, it is my worst nightmare to lose my body any more. I've been through being an 18 year old unable to go out and have fun. I've been unable to stand in a queue in the shops. Or go on a bus. I've always had my mind. To be a teenager or a young adult and feel like you are trapped by a body that is failing you is a horrible existence. Now that I'm almost back to 'normal' as long as I'm sensible and don't 'fuck up' and trigger pain, then my greatest fear is to lose this progress. And I know that best case, one day I'll get old and it'll happen again. I dread that so much. My mind is amazing. It's brilliant and clever and I can learn concepts and new ideas quickly. But what is the point if you can't do anything with it? What's the point having that ability if you can't work or can't go out to meet people or just don't have the energy to get out of bed that day because you've been in pain all night and not slept. This question is interesting, yes. A far more interesting part though is watching people answer it.
Interesting indeed. Not so much the Q&A but the misappropriation of quotes, taken out context to mean other things, which we now believe are the intended meaning. That would make a good video, if you know more!
One good example would be "blood is thicker than water". People use it to mean that family ties are important, right? But the truth is, that the full quote states "Blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" which has the exact OPPOSITE meaning, in that the people you befriend in adversity (on a battlefield) are more valuable than people you only share familiar ties with.
It's not really misapropration as simply taking it's wording, and using it to describe a different situation. That is, mostly, as the words are composed in a pleasing way, it's really just the wording that is taken, giving it an aditional flourish, kinda like ancient architectural elements used in classicl architecture.
I see your point. Perhaps I should re-state, as take out of context, contrary to the original intention. Still, I would like to see more of these, I find them fascinating, especially when the meaning is changed radically, like the example given by Lindy.
My interpretation of "who watches the watchmen?" is more along these lines: The watchmen are dedicated to keeping the general populace safe and out of harm's way, but who keeps these watchmen safe? The average person would feel comfortable knowing that someone watches over to keep the peace, but the watchman hasn't necessarily got someone to keep him safe.
Happy Sunday, Lloyd Losing my ability to perceive the world around me at around the level the people around me perceive it is fucking terrifying, but on the other hand, I like being able to visit the restroom without aid
6:03 This reminded me of a question I ask relatively often: Who heals the healer when she/he can not heal her/himself? When I ask my friends/family, usually they say "Me!" or "I do!" which, while awfully sweet, is not really possible since they would be considered patients of mine (there are a great many mental health issues among them).
I've dealt with an unhealthy mind (Severe anxiety, depression, mild psychosis) And an unhealthy body (Seizures, getting sick frequently, broken bones) And from my experience I would say healthy mind is more important to me. When my body was so broken after a severe accident that I had to sleep 20 hours a day, couldn't take more than a few steps without getting too dizzy to stand, my mind was in a great place so I wasn't miserable. To me the challenge of my will power versus my broken body was a far better experience than before this where my body was in great condition and yet my mind was a mess and I was miserable. Physical pain is easier for me than mental/emotional pain. If my body is broken, it is easier for me to fight against that or find a creative work around. If my mind is broken, it is far more difficult to fight through and finding a work around is virtually impossible. For example, when I could only take a few steps before needing rest, I could take a few steps, rest, take a few more steps, etc until I got to where I wanted to go. When my mental state was messed up, I couldn't take it a few steps at a time, it was a single step over and over until I could take a second step to get to where I wanted to be. Without a healthy mind, I will be miserable or useless. Without a healthy body, I can still be happy, and still be useful by having a reserve of knowledge or wisdom I can share with others.
Oh i met a 90 year old relative. Her mind was very much damaged. Could not remember the past 2 minutes and anything past that. Was a scary experience having her ask the same questions many times in such a short time period. Would absolutely keep the mind after that encounter.
Mind. My great grandpa died at 93 years of age. He was suffering from some sort of dementia, I believe Alzheimer's. I visited him quite a few times. He didn't know when to eat, when to go to the bathroom or anything of the sort, so the family took turns taking care of him, as a big part of the family lived around his home, I didn't, so I would just visit him. It quite saddens me I never got to actually know him. I was still very young when his conditions started, and he was a quiet man. My great grandma on the other hand, very expressive, and I hold her dear to my heart. She passed away when I was still young too, but her mind was clear as day, and I remember a lot from her. Seeing those two, I would definitely choose mind over body.
I had to nurse my grandfather in the last month of his life. He had a raging sort of dementia that corroded away his mind at a rare fast pace. I had not seen him for a full year. Then I came home from college and a few relatives were there. When I entered home, he was there. My haunt brought him to me. "Grandpa, do you remember him?". He stopped for a while, as if buffering his thoughts, then pat me on the head without saying anything. That's when I knew what was up. Asked my mom what was up and she confirmed. He had been like that for about six months. My parents don't tell me such things because I had just had a major mental breakdown because of some things that happened. My uncle told me the whole story. He was living in one of my aunt's house. So, they tapped into his savings and retirement money to better shape the house for a couple of old people, my grandpa and grandma. It was all fine for a while, with my grandparents going back and forth between their farm and my aunt's house. Then one of my uncles got greedy and sued my aunt accusing her of mistreating grandpa (grandma had died about a year prior), because, or so I'm told, it was depleting his inheritance. The judge ordered him taken away to a nursing home in the neighboring city. Then my parents got word of it and went to visit him. Arriving in the nursing home they sent grandpa to, conditions were terrible. There was only one nurse to take care of 15 elders. Won't go into further detail, but it shocked my parents. Grandpa, still lucid, begged my father to take him away from there, where he lived for about two months. And so father did. Took him to our home and, since both my parents have their own jobs to do, asked our uncles and aunts to go take care of him. And for four months they took turns taking care of him. I was oblivious to all of this, until I went home myself and saw him in that situation. He did not have a single lucid moment in the time I was there. He angrily threw things at people, spent the whole night awake banging on the wall, took off his diapers and smeared shit around. He could barely walk himself, but was hard work keeping up with his demented antics. But the most hearthbreaking thing was hearing him calling for Grandma, who had died about two years prior. They moved him to my aunt's house. He passed away shortly after. I couldn't go to the funeral. So I'm kinda biased, but I'll take Mind any day of the week. Having a shit quality of life fully aware of the state of decay of my body is better than not being yourself at all.
My family has a scary large history of senility past 60, I definitely pick mind no matter how the question is phrased. I stand a very large change of being senile in some way at old age. Hopefully science advances enough to save me from that terrible fate.
You should do a video on idioms and their actual origins. Like how pulling ones self up by the boot straps, rather than being an admonishment of the sloth of the impoverished, started as a satire of the idea of people in extreme poverty trying to improve their lot without assistance. It is like pulling ones self up by the bootstraps; literally an impossible task. I Always find it fascinating and usually a lot more insightful than the modern interpretations I've heard a thousand times taken out of context.
If I had the mind of a 30-year old in the body of a 90-year old I think I'd just feel caged in. There'd be so many things I couldn't do, travel, play sports... If it were the other way around though, at least I could live well, painlessly.
I wouldn't mind that actually. I've always been fully aware that i'm going to die someday, and because of past depression, i had also *embraced* the idea. As a consequence of that, i don't fear death anymore, and if i had a 30 year old brain "caged" in a decaying body, i would just use what little time i had left passing my knowledge onto others. I would probably attempt a Bill Nye like show, or write books on what i think about the universe.
The question is phrased in a way that makes the answer less simple than your title of the video, Lloyd. The way the question is phrased, I'd most certainly go for the body, because if I retain my mind at 30, that implies my mind doesn't change at all. However, if the question were a simple healthy mind vs. healthy body, I'm all for healthy mind, assuming that doesn't automatically give me a sickly body.
Mind is what I'd choose, as someone who's had some issues with mental health for a while, just having peace of mind that I'll be all there in my head at 90 sounds great.
There is something of a flaw in the question. At old age, an unhealthy body is much less likely to maintain a healthy mind, whereas great physical health is a good way to stay mentally fit. Your mind is a product of your body. And your brain is part of a cycle. If something in that cycle is damaged or drugged, it'll affect your brain. There's a ton of physical (and later emotional) factors that can cripple your mind: Depression, fear, pain, hormonal issues, a restrictive diet, spending a ton of time at doctors or in clinics (12-16 hours every week if you only need dialysis), or requiring help for everyday tasks including eating and pooping. Bad physical and emotional health greatly increases the risk of dementia, as well as early deaths. A healthy body spares you a TON of suffering, money and time. Plus, you'll be in great shape to maintain that fitness, and have an unstressful time doing mental exercises. There is no guarantee, but in all likelihood, your mind should stay relatively ok. With an unhealthy body, you instead need a handful of different pills every day, so you will probably feel drunk (if not completely stoned) 24/7. Your mind will be clouded all the time, even though it's technically still intact.
To be honest, Lindy, I think that anyone who tries to work on his body will work on his mind as well. It is a known fact that individuals who don't work on themselves, don't do it, generally, all around, including the mind and its powers. I think that what you stated, "Mens sana in corpore sano", is very true; inside a healthy body there will be a healthy mind if you do work on yourself and try to improve upon your current state. So, it appears that if you train your body, your mind will follow. This applies, of course, to the strength of will you acquire from training which you can apply to different aspects of your life.
"It is a known fact that individuals who don't work on themselves, don't do it, generally, all around, including the mind and its powers." Because all we see in schools is people who are good at sports _and_ every other subject, or neither of them, right? And that trend continues into academia, where everyone is just super healthy, because all the unhealthy people dropped out. Need I go on? With willpower and willpower alone, I might budge. There are so many more aspects to a healthy mind, though. Logical analysis, social competence, good perception, being able to step back and view a situation from someone else's perspective (this includes empathy and the idea that you are not the center of the world). And of course the ability to learn from your mistakes. Most people are good at a few of those while being bad at others. Saying "no physical training implies no mental training" is just ignoring a majority of intellectuals all over the world. Meanwhile, saying "physical training implies mental training" as said may work for willpower and willpower alone. But willpower alone does not make a healthy or functional mind.
Never said you can't be mentally sharp without any physical training. What I was talking about was the will power you get from physical training which helps in mental training (the will). Of course you can be smart without being athletic. I also stated that many people, who we can find at the bottom of society, are generally unhealthy, uneducated and don't have the will to change it. I for one have witnessed this time and again. Naturally you cannot generalize since every person is described by their individuality, i.e. the possibility that even though many from the same group are one way, the individual is another. Also, don't be fooled, many of the intellectuals you mentioned actually do a good deal of cardio exercises such as plain jogging since they understand the importance of a healthy body.
I have some insight into this one. I worked with profoundly disabled adults for a little over 5 years. I would say having met so many people of varying mental and physical capabilities that without a doubt having a healthy body beats having a healthy mind
I'd take the mind. Your logic is pretty sound, especially looking at the best case scenario, but I wouldn't risk it. I never want the chance to forget the faces of loved ones.
Both are well within individual human control, dependent on daily choices. A sensible choice is balance. And to include a healthy heart and a healthy spirit in that list.
As someone (53y.o.) whose body has been broken for the last 13 years as the result of an auto accident with a witless tractor trailer driver (leaving me with a mostly destroyed spine, bilateral nerve damage and frequent migraines), I would readily choose the healthy body. My mind will continue to function as long as it does, and in fact both sides of my gene pool consist of examples of mental longevity that extend well into the 90s, so I'm not too worried about senility!
Mind. I was made tetraplegic (yes, I’m British) 16 years ago at age 37. I since built and then sold a business, became a county councillor and am standing (ok sitting really) for the Scottish Parliament in May 2021, and absolutely intend to win. I will be the first tetraplegic parliamentarian in Scotland, and I suspect Britain as a whole. Technology is a wonderful thing. I can get about, drive, speak, write etc., etc. Yes, I’d like my body back, but I’m no push-over as it is!
Give me the mind, I'll just harvest replacement parts from other people. 1:11 I've known people who keep everything together before they die of old age, I've known guys like my dad who are in their late 50s and can't remember yesterday's news. I suppose if you know you're gonna keep it all together you'd want the body so you're effectively you but with a +3 to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. On the other hand, if you know you're gonna lose it all, just take the cumulative -6 penalty to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and just pick a magic-casting class. 4:05 There's always the internet. At least you'll have an excuse to sit on your ass and watch videos all day. 6:17 Well there goes that quote. Here I thought it could be interpreted as "Nobody watches the guards so they have nobody to run to, making them the first line of defense for those they guard" but it's just about keeping your wife from screwing other men.
I take care of my 93 years old grand mother. I will take the mind without hesitation. You do not have much control on your mental health, but you have some control over your body. Exercise, eat well and your body will mostly be fine. Your mind however... She have some severe memory issue, mainly with time. Ex: when she was young, she used to go to the theater near here with her daughter and her granddaughter. Already you can see some issues there, plus she lived about 300km away, and the theater here was built around the years 2000 I think, before that it was a brick wall: they extended the mall to create the theater. Then I look at some others... All of those mental issues mainly linked to aging... The body? Well, you can always have some surgery and medications to help massivelly, and if you do some exercise too then it will be usually ok. You may ends in wheel chair, but hey, your mind still fully work. If your mind don't work well, what does a good body give you? You may ends up interned anyway.
This question is interesting to me. One of my grandfathers is alive and very sharp; I think he said he plays a crossword puzzle every day to stay that way. My other three grandparents had or have dementia. It does make me wonder if I do have something to worry about as I get older.
Interesting question. It was quite easy for me, the mind. But with your point of view it seems the other way around. It is true that there are a lot of old people that have their minds in a good shape. I would argue though, that those people have something to live for. Something to get up from bed every morning. They have never stopped using their brain and because of that, it is mostly fine. As I think I will have something to live for at later age, I would choose body. But I also know old people that do nothing at all. Not because of their health, they just do not want to. As they do nothing for decades, their mind degrades and body as well. Or some younger people that are not interested in anything, that could be their problem later. In their case I would choose the mind.
My mind was better at 50 than at 30. I'm currently having some problems that are destroying me physically and mentally, but when I'm not in too much pain or too tired, I still think pretty well. I'm having some problems expressing myself through speech, but my writing is still pretty good most of the time. I'd hate to have my 30 year-old-mind stuck in a 90-year-old body. Only time will tell whether senility may someday be a mercy for me.
I would tend to agree. If I had the choice between being crippled now or being rendered mentally deficient, I'd choose the crippling every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But that's not the question. The question is, which do I want to preserve at age 30 until 90, my brain or my body? And while my brain will slow down over time, it won't slow down that much. Heck, I could get Alzheimers or dementia at 80 and be a shell of a person 10 years before my time is up. But even if so, that's getting to be 30 years old for 50 years of what would otherwise be a slow but inevitable breaking down of my body's capacity. Go for the body. The mind is better built to last.
Mind. Losing your physical strength is not fun, but this is 2017. It's not like it used to be. Mental capacity is more useful for functioning in our society than physical capacity, anyway. I currently have a pretty good body AND mind, but my outlook right now is that I want to keep my mind sharp above all. As my body slows down, I can focus on enjoying new experiences that I didn't make time for when I was young. Gonna need my mind for that. Also, a physically capable adult with an unsound mind is what we call "dangerous."
Healthy body! If my mind deteriorates I wouldn't be really aware of it, I mean.. i'd be literally losing my mind (and thus awareness)... but if my mind is sound and my body fails, I'll be aware of being trapped/imprisoned in a failing body...
My body is a gateway to pleasure, be it food, drink or sex. My mind is the gateway to bittersweet memories, anxiety and over analysing people's motives.
It is a complicated question. The term healthy wasn't defined, so it is difficult to answer. For example what happens if you are in such a poor physical state that you suffer greatly (arthritis, heart condition, poor or no eyesight, diabetes etc.) Well a perfectly healthy mental response to that would be depressed, but is a depressed state of mind a healthy state of mind.
Even elderly people who 'still have all their marbles' have great difficulty retaining significant amounts of new information. 30 year olds aren't nearly as good as teenagers, but they're still okay. So I would definitely take the mind in either case.
I suspect that keeping mentally sharp as you age is the same as keeping physically fit: degradation is inevitable, but exercise (physical and mental) is important, and lifestyle can greatly influence the results.
Yea, I think that I would choose the body too, and yes, healthy mind in healthy body I have seen that good stamina extends to the brain, you can handle complex mind processes for longer, also if you eat healthy (no light food just more balanced food), your brain works better too.
I feel like implied in the question is that if you pick mind, your body deteriorates instead, and vice versa. In this case I'm still sure I'd choose body, because the choice is between being a bit dementia ridden but relatively pain free and healthy, or I could have a very intelligent and insightful experience of being in a lot of pain and having a useless old body. Senile people who still had a support network would probably get out and about, and just because you might not be storing the memories, I feel like a senile person in a healthy body would be more happy overall. Are we saying people with very low IQs aren't capable of experiencing satisfaction with life? I'd rather that than being able to very eloquently being able to state just how annoyed I was by my useless deteriorating body. Definitely a hard choice though!
The deterioration in intelligence over time is mostly focused on non-verbal components of IQ, so older people will can still be very eloquent and knowledgeable, but they definitely won't be as sharp when it comes more abstract logical thinking or learning new things. As a programmer I'd definitely choose the mind. I also had people with alzheimer in my family, and I definitely wouldn't want to spend last years of my life like this. Also the best way to slow the process of losing intelligence is exercising and keeping a healthy body. They go hand in hand.
When my Grandfather died at age 92 he was still sharp and witty right up until about a month before end, it was his body (vascular system) that failed him so I guess you can guess my choice. I'll take the healthy body please, arthritus etc. hurts a lot.
As a 30 ish year old with chronic illness, I can say that keeping your mind healthy is so much better than keeping your body healthy. The mind can take you places that your body cannot, and the mind can in some ways allow you to "transcend" the suffering of an unhealthy body. My brain can take me to the edges of the universe, deep under oceans, through the quantum jungle, and across the mire of human history. My body never could do that, so why hold onto to it when my brain has so much more potential?
The quote you mentioned is totally about the policestate etc. He used the example with a woman just as a metaphor. Let me give you another one. If u organize a group (group A) of people to watch over big concerns to stop corruption in the politics or something like that. Those concerns can just corrupt the people in group A and the corruption you wanted to stop is even bigger than before. So you have to organize a new group and so on and on.
I don't see any situation where a broken mind would be preferable, even with a really broken body. Stephen Hawking is a good example of the advantages of a sharp mind with a dysfunctional body.
Of course, *anyone* would appreciate having a healthy body, instead of it being dysfunctional. The point is that a reasonably healthy body cannot be appreciated with a broken mind. However, the advantages of a healthy mind dwindles a lot if it is unable to communicate with other minds. In such a situation, my sharp mind might decide that it would be preferable to cease to exist.
From what I've seen, Stephen Hawking has *not* said that he'd like to have an assisted suicide, but instead “To keep someone alive against their wishes is the ultimate indignity, I would consider assisted suicide *only* if I were in great pain or felt I had nothing more to contribute but was just a burden to those around me.” (my emphasis). He's still able to contribute, and have no reason to cease his existence.
Johnnie Hougaard Nielsen I would rather not be crippled lol. Only one person has to do all the thinking. Lots of people are needed to actually do things.
Didn`t even listen to the answer yet but it is so obvious I don`t see how this is a question. Id choose the healthy body. The reason is if you take good care of yourself you can still have a mind that is healthier at 90 than ANY 90 year old body no matter what you do.
I'm reminded of a quote jack hargreaves attributes to one of his old tutors when faced with a room full of new students. "To be as young as you, I would almost be prepared to be as naive as you."
Personally, my dad had dementia, and that was terrifying. However, my mum had breast cancer, arthritis, lymphodema and a half dozen other things, and that was also terrifying. But as Lloyd said, most peoples minds are decent well into old age, so I think I’d go for the body. Edit; in the situation where I could only have one, I’d go for the mind any day. My dad could still walk and move things and it caused us no end of trouble. I’d want to spare my caretakers that and I think I could live with physical problems up to near total immobility. Also, I found that ending quite funny.
As somebody to whom physical activity comes about as naturally as calculus does to a walrus, I'd definitely pick a healthy mind over a health body if I had to decide between the two. I do agree the question isn't phrased very well, though.
It's honestly a weird question because most old people I've meet are sharp as a tack including my grandfather's cousin who's 85 and I don't belive he took extremely good care of himself. The other thing too is when you look at people who are incredibly active and take exceptionally good care of themselves their body is still "young" fairly deep into their old age.
Given the last bit about the phrase "who watches the watchmen?" I think the film "The watchmen" could (should perhaps) be remade into a very adult film.
"Here, answer these questions!"
Let me improve them first, thank you.
Such a Lloyd thing to do haha
He did answer the base question before improving it to be a better dilemma.
The questions are just that poorly thought out. More like the "philosophical" questions coming from a drunktard.
They'd need to be more fleshed out in the mathematical fashion with circumstances and conditions for them to be better suited for discussion.
No, then it would just devolve into nitpicking the specifics of circumstances and conditions.
6:01
'Sorry, my Latin wasn't what it used to be.' Are you sure you haven't already chosen, Lindy?
"Sorry, my Latin isn't quite what it was"
Are you?
My latin is not as good as Izzard's centurion's messenger's latin! upsidedownus backtofrontus
Definitely a Healthy Mind for me. I'm 24 with a body of a 60 year old from a Spinal injury I had when I was 17. My body is already ruined, so I wouldn't mind still being a sarcastic arse when I'm 90.
You already have a healthy mind it seems, best wishes Jazza.
haha, i wish you well my friend
L N haha thanks brother
I would take healthy body
(Don't take this answer as me whining about my life. It's just me appreciating being in good shape)
I was in ridiculously good shape a couple of years ago. Almost to an unbelievable extent, both in strength and endurance. Even the doctors asked me if I took any drugs or something (I didn't). But I got testicular cancer, and by the time I noticed, it had already spread. And with some further bad luck, it ended up taking a lot longer time to get cured than what it usually does. When the whole thing was over, my back and right shoulder was, and still is super fucked up. And a side-effect from chemotherapy is tinnitus, and the tinnitus I got now is so fucking bad that it sounds like a damn fire-alarm going of.
I am cured now, but to be honest. If I could choose to either be cured, or live only one more year in the shape I was, but then pass away. I'd take the latter
You should pick a healthy body... It would cure you and keep your body healthy for another 66 years!
I bet you could make a whole season just recolecting every single "ancient saying" and explaining how different from the current perception they are.
Upvote for this idea
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
But people in concrete houses can do whatever the fuck they want, including being a hypocrit! :D
Every ten years, I notice that, ten years ago I was an idiot. It seems to me that keeping the mind from when you were 30 is massively limiting yourself.
loqkLoqkson i don't think it's about not being able to progress, it's about keeping your 'computing power' of a 30 year old.
But if you from 10 years ago could see you now, would he think you're the idiot?
I also am beginning to notice that I get wiser every year, and I’m only 22. I think it’s just life experience.
On the day of my 17th birthday my very elderly Grandfather said to me" You're 17 but the sad thing is that in here (He tapped his temple with an arthritic finger) So am I"
I work in a Nursing home only as a cleaner but I still talk to the residents and I can easily say I'd prefer the mind, from varying levels of walking with a frame to wheelchair bound my favorite people to interact with are always the ones who have kept their marbles, there's one woman who is quite able bodied for her age still, has a wonderful singing voice but is deep into dementia and her lucid moments are just the saddest times around her
Don't say only as a cleaner mate...it's a job it's part of the machine
Cleaners are as essential as doctors. Or even more important. Without cleaning, society won't function.
Inagine how many oldsters would be horribly ill from filth borne pathogens if you weren't there to perform your duties...never feel shame for your occupation, it's at least as important as the medical staff, if not more so!
Cleaners are important. Very. You give dignity back to those that cannot take care of their hygiene anymore
Besides, there are dirtier (and more evil) jobs: journalist, reality tv producer, embassador, working in an apple store...
I agree with the sentiments of the other people replying to your comment. Don't think of your self as "only" a cleaner. (Just look at what happened to the Golgafrinchans after they sent their (among others) telephone sanitisers away on Ark B. They all died from a virulent disease spread by dirty telephones.) But seriously, I'm sure your simple interactions with the residents assist with their well being. You are doing a valuable service to their emotional well being while at the same time providing a safe and clean environment for them to live in.
Really liking this series. Nice to get your side of the things
John Redican it'd be hard because I feel like discussing deep, thought provoking ideas would be difficult if you did it online. Doing it face to face allows you to quickly throw out ideas, making it fun and even a learning experience.
@J Redfield ive had barely a handful of pleasant experiences with people online. I think just like in the real world most people are by no means as educated as they like to convince themselves and would rather argue than learn. Find yourself the right life partner and you won't need to use the internet to find cognitive stimuli
Very interesting series indeed, Sir.
Begins video talking about choosing a healthy body or a healthy mind
Finishes the video talking about the infidelity of wives
All of this in seven minutes
This is why i am subscribed to you
My father is 80, and his mind is (almost) totally sound. He has some memory loss but compared to some he is just as he was as a young man. His body, on the other hand, is very much the body of an 80 year old. He has a motorcycle he can't ride, cigars he can't smoke, and many other things that he wishes he was able to enjoy but can't. It looks like torture. I've seen the horrors of dementia, and while I wouldn't wish it on anyone it does seem to prevent the mind from being held back by a frail body. Life is certainly strange.
I love how your subtitles say, "[Stops and ponders the question further.]"
My great grandma is turning 100, she is still giving valid business advices and political analytics to me and my mom, though with a touch of 1920 education. But her prediction of social trends is very accurate.
I love hearing your rants Beigh.
There is more knowledge and wisdom in them than in the average UA-camr's entire channel.
Years ago I would have said keep the mind. However after working with the intellectual disabled children I got to say there is something for the old ignorance is bliss idea. To them they are not disabled in any way, we are just all extra smart which is kind of a nice way to look at things.
have you ever known someone SLOWLY losing their mind though? It's quite a different experience. You are aware you're not what you used to be, you know your mind fails you and you are utterly helpless against it. I've watched it happen to my grandma for a few years now. She's miserable every day because she is aware that he mind's worse and worse and she can do nothing to stop it.
@@rozamunduszek4787 I'll be 25 in a few weeks.
From the end of high school to now i've felt my brain degrading bit by bit as a result of depression and stagnation. I was on an upward trend recovering it up until I caught Covid late last year; dementia-like symptoms are a long term difficulty many face as a result of the virus, myself included. I've improved since it first began but I know it's so much harder for me to process information now, my memory isn't as efficient (difficulty retrieving information, some bits are just blank), and I don't know if it'll ever be what it was.
I want it to come back; I fully intend to work at getting it back, but its such a deeply helpless feeling to know what I had and feel it there but not be able to use it.
@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger I feel ya! I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I thankfully haven't caught covid but I've been battling depression since my teenage years (I'm 25 now) and I definitely had the symptoms you describe! I felt my mind slip from me, I have trouble recalling things, I have difficulty staying focused and processing things. My thoughts feel muddy and so slow compared to what they used to be. Last 2 years I've been doing better, even tried going back to uni but had to drop out because it was too much stress, both socially and academically, compounded by the fact I know for sure that at 15 I would have excelled at uni even though it's obviously more challenging than high school but now when I'm supposed to be more intellectually capable than when I was a teenager, I'm ever worse. Now I have to fight my brain foreverything, thinking, remembering, focusing. I'm somewhat winning because now it's definitely better than it was even a couple years back but still not as good as it had been when I was a teen. I'm terrified of catchhing covid because of the dementia-like symptoms because I watched my grandma's mind slip and I'm absolutely terrified of it happening to me and losing all the progress I achieved in the last few years. I hope you take care of yourself and manage to reclaim your mind!
You are an extraordinary man. A comment not related with this video in particular. But there is no place where to put general comments.
Healthy body. I've worked with the elderly and there's nothing more cruel than a keen mind trapped in a failing body. I hope my mind fails first.
I would, without hesitation, choose a healthy mind. Having had a few hard years i've gotten to appreciate what a wonderful thing your mind is and having the clarity of a 30 year old self, throughout my life, would truly be a blessing. Having the ability to remember wonderful moments when the world seems dark, understand what happens around me and just generally have my own self being intact for such a long time would be really very nice.
mind as sharp as a tack? I was as sharp as a broom handle at 30.
Always a fascinating perspective. Thank you
orandum est ut sit mens sana in corpore sano
I always understood this to be a mockery of the body fixation of his time.
kind of like:
Would it not be nice if there were a healthy mind in those healthy bodys.
Reminds me of an old joke:
A man, a bottle, blah-blah, so a Genie says:
- I can bestow upon you great wisdom, or I can give you great riches. Choose now!
- Okay, give me wisdom!
* magic *
- Now you are the most wise man in the land. What sayeth you, oh wise one?
- I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE MONEY!!! * Sob *
Good one
I would go with the mind rather than the body. Your body can last you a long time as long as you take good care of it (diet and exercise wise). It should also be considered that mental ailments are generally harder to treat than physical ones. In my opinion, and based off experiences with people I know, I would rather have a healthy mind in an aging body than a broken mind in an otherwise healthy body.
I love this series...
Its such joy to have him finding that book!
"my latin isn't what it used to be"
There goes your healthy mind...
in reality he is actually 70 at the moment, and his mind is slowly drifting away.
What!? No endcard joke! I am outraged!
This series doesn't have them.
When will this stop?
-> When she's satisfied, I guess.
I'm watching this almost a year later, but this question hits so close to home with my experience that I feel like I must share my point of view.
Due to a chronic illness I've had the chance to experience both extremes. Having a functional mind but a non-functioning body is pretty awful, feeling the limitations of having the words in my head but no actual way to express them is beyond frustrating, and not being able to go and do is extremely boring. Like cabin fever 24-7. Visits are lovely, I don't even care if I hate you, I just needed real actual people interactions! However, I would absolutely choose a healthy mind no matter what the chances of keeping both if I gambled with the other. Losing the ability to think clearly was far, far more limiting, and even though time slipped away from me, and I wasn't cognisent enough to be bored, I still knew enough to know that I was missing out and that I was a huge burden on those taking care of me. I still knew that this wasn't right or normal. I couldn't live, all I did every day was survive. I am very glad that period was relatively brief because I constantly found myself questioning the point of living if it was going to be like that for the rest of my life. Even if my body was functional I could quite literally do nothing except use up resources. I was getting lost and frustrated trying to follow short UA-cam videos with no words, so even zoning out at TV wasn't an option. It was a strange and awful torture. Before anyone asks, I still wouldn't choose to die instead, I just didn't know what the point was if I couldn't do more than exist.
Now that I think about it, I actually had to make this kind of choice for real. I have a medication I take that makes one of my symptoms of debilitating pain much worse. However, while on it I felt like I woke up for the first time in ten years. I can't overstate how much I adore being able to think again, or how many strange small things that I never realized made a huge impact in my quality of life that were directly related to my declining brain function. So between the two I chose to live with the pain so that I could keep my mind. Luckily I'm reacting well to new pain treatment so when combined with everything else that we found I'm really doing great right now! I hope I never have to make that choice again, but I won't be changing my mind about it.
I love your videos lindy
Gog Mog Boris fan maybe?
This is a really interesting idea and something I've thought about before. As an adult in my early 20's with health issues for the past decade which are slowly resolving but will never fully go away, it is my worst nightmare to lose my body any more. I've been through being an 18 year old unable to go out and have fun. I've been unable to stand in a queue in the shops. Or go on a bus.
I've always had my mind.
To be a teenager or a young adult and feel like you are trapped by a body that is failing you is a horrible existence. Now that I'm almost back to 'normal' as long as I'm sensible and don't 'fuck up' and trigger pain, then my greatest fear is to lose this progress. And I know that best case, one day I'll get old and it'll happen again. I dread that so much.
My mind is amazing. It's brilliant and clever and I can learn concepts and new ideas quickly. But what is the point if you can't do anything with it? What's the point having that ability if you can't work or can't go out to meet people or just don't have the energy to get out of bed that day because you've been in pain all night and not slept.
This question is interesting, yes. A far more interesting part though is watching people answer it.
Interesting indeed. Not so much the Q&A but the misappropriation of quotes, taken out context to mean other things, which we now believe are the intended meaning. That would make a good video, if you know more!
One good example would be "blood is thicker than water". People use it to mean that family ties are important, right? But the truth is, that the full quote states "Blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" which has the exact OPPOSITE meaning, in that the people you befriend in adversity (on a battlefield) are more valuable than people you only share familiar ties with.
It's not really misapropration as simply taking it's wording, and using it to describe a different situation. That is, mostly, as the words are composed in a pleasing way, it's really just the wording that is taken, giving it an aditional flourish, kinda like ancient architectural elements used in classicl architecture.
I see your point. Perhaps I should re-state, as take out of context, contrary to the original intention. Still, I would like to see more of these, I find them fascinating, especially when the meaning is changed radically, like the example given by Lindy.
Yes, exactly!
Steve Whipp, agreed, I would absolutely love to see more of these explaining origins of quotes and their original meaning.
My interpretation of "who watches the watchmen?" is more along these lines: The watchmen are dedicated to keeping the general populace safe and out of harm's way, but who keeps these watchmen safe? The average person would feel comfortable knowing that someone watches over to keep the peace, but the watchman hasn't necessarily got someone to keep him safe.
Great video and the way you explained different thing's on this is interesting to me.Thank you so so much for your videos too..
last part was the best :) Do you have more of these "anecdotes"?
Happy Sunday, Lloyd
Losing my ability to perceive the world around me at around the level the people around me perceive it is fucking terrifying, but on the other hand, I like being able to visit the restroom without aid
"nothing to do with the topic, but nevermind". Always when a talk gets interesting. Thanks Lindy, GG mate.
6:03 This reminded me of a question I ask relatively often: Who heals the healer when she/he can not heal her/himself? When I ask my friends/family, usually they say "Me!" or "I do!" which, while awfully sweet, is not really possible since they would be considered patients of mine (there are a great many mental health issues among them).
I've dealt with an unhealthy mind (Severe anxiety, depression, mild psychosis) And an unhealthy body (Seizures, getting sick frequently, broken bones) And from my experience I would say healthy mind is more important to me. When my body was so broken after a severe accident that I had to sleep 20 hours a day, couldn't take more than a few steps without getting too dizzy to stand, my mind was in a great place so I wasn't miserable. To me the challenge of my will power versus my broken body was a far better experience than before this where my body was in great condition and yet my mind was a mess and I was miserable. Physical pain is easier for me than mental/emotional pain. If my body is broken, it is easier for me to fight against that or find a creative work around. If my mind is broken, it is far more difficult to fight through and finding a work around is virtually impossible. For example, when I could only take a few steps before needing rest, I could take a few steps, rest, take a few more steps, etc until I got to where I wanted to go. When my mental state was messed up, I couldn't take it a few steps at a time, it was a single step over and over until I could take a second step to get to where I wanted to be. Without a healthy mind, I will be miserable or useless. Without a healthy body, I can still be happy, and still be useful by having a reserve of knowledge or wisdom I can share with others.
Oh i met a 90 year old relative. Her mind was very much damaged. Could not remember the past 2 minutes and anything past that. Was a scary experience having her ask the same questions many times in such a short time period. Would absolutely keep the mind after that encounter.
Mind. My great grandpa died at 93 years of age. He was suffering from some sort of dementia, I believe Alzheimer's. I visited him quite a few times. He didn't know when to eat, when to go to the bathroom or anything of the sort, so the family took turns taking care of him, as a big part of the family lived around his home, I didn't, so I would just visit him.
It quite saddens me I never got to actually know him. I was still very young when his conditions started, and he was a quiet man. My great grandma on the other hand, very expressive, and I hold her dear to my heart. She passed away when I was still young too, but her mind was clear as day, and I remember a lot from her. Seeing those two, I would definitely choose mind over body.
I had to nurse my grandfather in the last month of his life. He had a raging sort of dementia that corroded away his mind at a rare fast pace.
I had not seen him for a full year. Then I came home from college and a few relatives were there. When I entered home, he was there. My haunt brought him to me. "Grandpa, do you remember him?". He stopped for a while, as if buffering his thoughts, then pat me on the head without saying anything. That's when I knew what was up. Asked my mom what was up and she confirmed. He had been like that for about six months. My parents don't tell me such things because I had just had a major mental breakdown because of some things that happened.
My uncle told me the whole story.
He was living in one of my aunt's house. So, they tapped into his savings and retirement money to better shape the house for a couple of old people, my grandpa and grandma. It was all fine for a while, with my grandparents going back and forth between their farm and my aunt's house. Then one of my uncles got greedy and sued my aunt accusing her of mistreating grandpa (grandma had died about a year prior), because, or so I'm told, it was depleting his inheritance. The judge ordered him taken away to a nursing home in the neighboring city.
Then my parents got word of it and went to visit him. Arriving in the nursing home they sent grandpa to, conditions were terrible. There was only one nurse to take care of 15 elders. Won't go into further detail, but it shocked my parents. Grandpa, still lucid, begged my father to take him away from there, where he lived for about two months. And so father did. Took him to our home and, since both my parents have their own jobs to do, asked our uncles and aunts to go take care of him. And for four months they took turns taking care of him. I was oblivious to all of this, until I went home myself and saw him in that situation.
He did not have a single lucid moment in the time I was there. He angrily threw things at people, spent the whole night awake banging on the wall, took off his diapers and smeared shit around. He could barely walk himself, but was hard work keeping up with his demented antics. But the most hearthbreaking thing was hearing him calling for Grandma, who had died about two years prior.
They moved him to my aunt's house. He passed away shortly after. I couldn't go to the funeral.
So I'm kinda biased, but I'll take Mind any day of the week.
Having a shit quality of life fully aware of the state of decay of my body is better than not being yourself at all.
Please bring these kind of videos more often. They are so good! I mean could you bring one of these every 2 or 3 days. Would that be possible.
I knew Frankie too, and I certainly agree with your assessment of his mental acuity.
--
Barry (assistant teacher to Erin Stevens)
My family has a scary large history of senility past 60, I definitely pick mind no matter how the question is phrased. I stand a very large change of being senile in some way at old age. Hopefully science advances enough to save me from that terrible fate.
"Who gaurds the gaurds?" always enjoy a good Lindybeige watch Cheers
A little in column A.
A little in column B.
Don't wanna keep all your eggs in one basket.
You should do a video on idioms and their actual origins. Like how pulling ones self up by the boot straps, rather than being an admonishment of the sloth of the impoverished, started as a satire of the idea of people in extreme poverty trying to improve their lot without assistance. It is like pulling ones self up by the bootstraps; literally an impossible task. I Always find it fascinating and usually a lot more insightful than the modern interpretations I've heard a thousand times taken out of context.
If I had the mind of a 30-year old in the body of a 90-year old I think I'd just feel caged in. There'd be so many things I couldn't do, travel, play sports...
If it were the other way around though, at least I could live well, painlessly.
The depression that often comes with senility is clearly not "painless".
You're right, I didn't consider that.
ThyerHazard Thats your life now anyway
I wouldn't mind that actually. I've always been fully aware that i'm going to die someday, and because of past depression, i had also *embraced* the idea. As a consequence of that, i don't fear death anymore, and if i had a 30 year old brain "caged" in a decaying body, i would just use what little time i had left passing my knowledge onto others. I would probably attempt a Bill Nye like show, or write books on what i think about the universe.
No, why?
The question is phrased in a way that makes the answer less simple than your title of the video, Lloyd. The way the question is phrased, I'd most certainly go for the body, because if I retain my mind at 30, that implies my mind doesn't change at all. However, if the question were a simple healthy mind vs. healthy body, I'm all for healthy mind, assuming that doesn't automatically give me a sickly body.
Mind is what I'd choose, as someone who's had some issues with mental health for a while, just having peace of mind that I'll be all there in my head at 90 sounds great.
There is something of a flaw in the question. At old age, an unhealthy body is much less likely to maintain a healthy mind, whereas great physical health is a good way to stay mentally fit. Your mind is a product of your body.
And your brain is part of a cycle. If something in that cycle is damaged or drugged, it'll affect your brain. There's a ton of physical (and later emotional) factors that can cripple your mind: Depression, fear, pain, hormonal issues, a restrictive diet, spending a ton of time at doctors or in clinics (12-16 hours every week if you only need dialysis), or requiring help for everyday tasks including eating and pooping.
Bad physical and emotional health greatly increases the risk of dementia, as well as early deaths.
A healthy body spares you a TON of suffering, money and time. Plus, you'll be in great shape to maintain that fitness, and have an unstressful time doing mental exercises. There is no guarantee, but in all likelihood, your mind should stay relatively ok.
With an unhealthy body, you instead need a handful of different pills every day, so you will probably feel drunk (if not completely stoned) 24/7. Your mind will be clouded all the time, even though it's technically still intact.
To be honest, Lindy, I think that anyone who tries to work on his body will work on his mind as well. It is a known fact that individuals who don't work on themselves, don't do it, generally, all around, including the mind and its powers. I think that what you stated, "Mens sana in corpore sano", is very true; inside a healthy body there will be a healthy mind if you do work on yourself and try to improve upon your current state. So, it appears that if you train your body, your mind will follow. This applies, of course, to the strength of will you acquire from training which you can apply to different aspects of your life.
"It is a known fact that individuals who don't work on themselves, don't do it, generally, all around, including the mind and its powers."
Because all we see in schools is people who are good at sports _and_ every other subject, or neither of them, right? And that trend continues into academia, where everyone is just super healthy, because all the unhealthy people dropped out.
Need I go on?
With willpower and willpower alone, I might budge. There are so many more aspects to a healthy mind, though. Logical analysis, social competence, good perception, being able to step back and view a situation from someone else's perspective (this includes empathy and the idea that you are not the center of the world). And of course the ability to learn from your mistakes.
Most people are good at a few of those while being bad at others. Saying "no physical training implies no mental training" is just ignoring a majority of intellectuals all over the world. Meanwhile, saying "physical training implies mental training" as said may work for willpower and willpower alone. But willpower alone does not make a healthy or functional mind.
Never said you can't be mentally sharp without any physical training. What I was talking about was the will power you get from physical training which helps in mental training (the will). Of course you can be smart without being athletic. I also stated that many people, who we can find at the bottom of society, are generally unhealthy, uneducated and don't have the will to change it. I for one have witnessed this time and again. Naturally you cannot generalize since every person is described by their individuality, i.e. the possibility that even though many from the same group are one way, the individual is another. Also, don't be fooled, many of the intellectuals you mentioned actually do a good deal of cardio exercises such as plain jogging since they understand the importance of a healthy body.
I have some insight into this one. I worked with profoundly disabled adults for a little over 5 years. I would say having met so many people of varying mental and physical capabilities that without a doubt having a healthy body beats having a healthy mind
6:09 "Who guards the guards?" why can't they guard each other?
I'd take the mind. Your logic is pretty sound, especially looking at the best case scenario, but I wouldn't risk it. I never want the chance to forget the faces of loved ones.
Both are well within individual human control, dependent on daily choices. A sensible choice is balance. And to include a healthy heart and a healthy spirit in that list.
As someone (53y.o.) whose body has been broken for the last 13 years as the result of an auto accident with a witless tractor trailer driver (leaving me with a mostly destroyed spine, bilateral nerve damage and frequent migraines), I would readily choose the healthy body. My mind will continue to function as long as it does, and in fact both sides of my gene pool consist of examples of mental longevity that extend well into the 90s, so I'm not too worried about senility!
I really love the harpsichord at the end.
When I read this book after the most interesting questions I found myself almost hoping a few would happen. To me there were no downsides to some
Mind. I was made tetraplegic (yes, I’m British) 16 years ago at age 37. I since built and then sold a business, became a county councillor and am standing (ok sitting really) for the Scottish Parliament in May 2021, and absolutely intend to win. I will be the first tetraplegic parliamentarian in Scotland, and I suspect Britain as a whole. Technology is a wonderful thing. I can get about, drive, speak, write etc., etc. Yes, I’d like my body back, but I’m no push-over as it is!
Give me the mind, I'll just harvest replacement parts from other people.
1:11 I've known people who keep everything together before they die of old age, I've known guys like my dad who are in their late 50s and can't remember yesterday's news. I suppose if you know you're gonna keep it all together you'd want the body so you're effectively you but with a +3 to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. On the other hand, if you know you're gonna lose it all, just take the cumulative -6 penalty to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, and just pick a magic-casting class.
4:05 There's always the internet. At least you'll have an excuse to sit on your ass and watch videos all day.
6:17 Well there goes that quote. Here I thought it could be interpreted as "Nobody watches the guards so they have nobody to run to, making them the first line of defense for those they guard" but it's just about keeping your wife from screwing other men.
I take care of my 93 years old grand mother. I will take the mind without hesitation. You do not have much control on your mental health, but you have some control over your body. Exercise, eat well and your body will mostly be fine. Your mind however...
She have some severe memory issue, mainly with time. Ex: when she was young, she used to go to the theater near here with her daughter and her granddaughter. Already you can see some issues there, plus she lived about 300km away, and the theater here was built around the years 2000 I think, before that it was a brick wall: they extended the mall to create the theater.
Then I look at some others... All of those mental issues mainly linked to aging... The body? Well, you can always have some surgery and medications to help massivelly, and if you do some exercise too then it will be usually ok. You may ends in wheel chair, but hey, your mind still fully work.
If your mind don't work well, what does a good body give you? You may ends up interned anyway.
This question is interesting to me. One of my grandfathers is alive and very sharp; I think he said he plays a crossword puzzle every day to stay that way. My other three grandparents had or have dementia. It does make me wonder if I do have something to worry about as I get older.
6:56 That's what eunuchs are for...
Interesting question. It was quite easy for me, the mind. But with your point of view it seems the other way around. It is true that there are a lot of old people that have their minds in a good shape. I would argue though, that those people have something to live for. Something to get up from bed every morning. They have never stopped using their brain and because of that, it is mostly fine. As I think I will have something to live for at later age, I would choose body. But I also know old people that do nothing at all. Not because of their health, they just do not want to. As they do nothing for decades, their mind degrades and body as well. Or some younger people that are not interested in anything, that could be their problem later. In their case I would choose the mind.
My mind was better at 50 than at 30. I'm currently having some problems that are destroying me physically and mentally, but when I'm not in too much pain or too tired, I still think pretty well. I'm having some problems expressing myself through speech, but my writing is still pretty good most of the time. I'd hate to have my 30 year-old-mind stuck in a 90-year-old body.
Only time will tell whether senility may someday be a mercy for me.
I would tend to agree.
If I had the choice between being crippled now or being rendered mentally deficient, I'd choose the crippling every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But that's not the question. The question is, which do I want to preserve at age 30 until 90, my brain or my body? And while my brain will slow down over time, it won't slow down that much. Heck, I could get Alzheimers or dementia at 80 and be a shell of a person 10 years before my time is up. But even if so, that's getting to be 30 years old for 50 years of what would otherwise be a slow but inevitable breaking down of my body's capacity.
Go for the body. The mind is better built to last.
I thought the exact same thing when I heard the question. Young body + Mature mind.
If I choose the body, I'll be a wise old man with 60 more years to live
Both of my grandparents were completely out of it by the time they hit 80, so healthy mind for me without a doubt.
Mind. Losing your physical strength is not fun, but this is 2017. It's not like it used to be. Mental capacity is more useful for functioning in our society than physical capacity, anyway. I currently have a pretty good body AND mind, but my outlook right now is that I want to keep my mind sharp above all. As my body slows down, I can focus on enjoying new experiences that I didn't make time for when I was young. Gonna need my mind for that.
Also, a physically capable adult with an unsound mind is what we call "dangerous."
I love these episodes ❤️
Healthy body! If my mind deteriorates I wouldn't be really aware of it, I mean.. i'd be literally losing my mind (and thus awareness)... but if my mind is sound and my body fails, I'll be aware of being trapped/imprisoned in a failing body...
My body is a gateway to pleasure, be it food, drink or sex. My mind is the gateway to bittersweet memories, anxiety and over analysing people's motives.
It is a complicated question. The term healthy wasn't defined, so it is difficult to answer. For example what happens if you are in such a poor physical state that you suffer greatly (arthritis, heart condition, poor or no eyesight, diabetes etc.) Well a perfectly healthy mental response to that would be depressed, but is a depressed state of mind a healthy state of mind.
Totally body! The mind typically improves and increases till very near the edge.
Even elderly people who 'still have all their marbles' have great difficulty retaining significant amounts of new information. 30 year olds aren't nearly as good as teenagers, but they're still okay. So I would definitely take the mind in either case.
I suspect that keeping mentally sharp as you age is the same as keeping physically fit: degradation is inevitable, but exercise (physical and mental) is important, and lifestyle can greatly influence the results.
I work with disabled people and it's mind all day long .
Yea, I think that I would choose the body too, and yes, healthy mind in healthy body I have seen that good stamina extends to the brain, you can handle complex mind processes for longer, also if you eat healthy (no light food just more balanced food), your brain works better too.
My great gran was helthy as a horse, but she had BAD memory loss and such with her mind.
My grandad died of bodily health, but he had his mind still
I feel like implied in the question is that if you pick mind, your body deteriorates instead, and vice versa. In this case I'm still sure I'd choose body, because the choice is between being a bit dementia ridden but relatively pain free and healthy, or I could have a very intelligent and insightful experience of being in a lot of pain and having a useless old body. Senile people who still had a support network would probably get out and about, and just because you might not be storing the memories, I feel like a senile person in a healthy body would be more happy overall. Are we saying people with very low IQs aren't capable of experiencing satisfaction with life? I'd rather that than being able to very eloquently being able to state just how annoyed I was by my useless deteriorating body. Definitely a hard choice though!
The deterioration in intelligence over time is mostly focused on non-verbal components of IQ, so older people will can still be very eloquent and knowledgeable, but they definitely won't be as sharp when it comes more abstract logical thinking or learning new things. As a programmer I'd definitely choose the mind. I also had people with alzheimer in my family, and I definitely wouldn't want to spend last years of my life like this.
Also the best way to slow the process of losing intelligence is exercising and keeping a healthy body. They go hand in hand.
When my Grandfather died at age 92 he was still sharp and witty right up until about a month before end, it was his body (vascular system) that failed him so I guess you can guess my choice. I'll take the healthy body please, arthritus etc. hurts a lot.
having a senile grandma, and the other grandma with an almost intact mind, but stuck in a wheelchair, this hits preety close to home.
As a 30 ish year old with chronic illness, I can say that keeping your mind healthy is so much better than keeping your body healthy. The mind can take you places that your body cannot, and the mind can in some ways allow you to "transcend" the suffering of an unhealthy body. My brain can take me to the edges of the universe, deep under oceans, through the quantum jungle, and across the mire of human history. My body never could do that, so why hold onto to it when my brain has so much more potential?
The quote you mentioned is totally about the policestate etc. He used the example with a woman just as a metaphor. Let me give you another one. If u organize a group (group A) of people to watch over big concerns to stop corruption in the politics or something like that. Those concerns can just corrupt the people in group A and the corruption you wanted to stop is even bigger than before. So you have to organize a new group and so on and on.
I love those videos!
Body, your mind may not decline, your body definitely will.
I don't see any situation where a broken mind would be preferable, even with a really broken body. Stephen Hawking is a good example of the advantages of a sharp mind with a dysfunctional body.
Of course, *anyone* would appreciate having a healthy body, instead of it being dysfunctional. The point is that a reasonably healthy body cannot be appreciated with a broken mind.
However, the advantages of a healthy mind dwindles a lot if it is unable to communicate with other minds. In such a situation, my sharp mind might decide that it would be preferable to cease to exist.
If my mind broke to the extent of not knowing it, like with severe dementia, that would be be the end the "me" that would clearly prefer death.
From what I've seen, Stephen Hawking has *not* said that he'd like to have an assisted suicide, but instead “To keep someone alive against their wishes is the ultimate indignity, I would consider assisted suicide *only* if I were in great pain or felt I had nothing more to contribute but was just a burden to those around me.” (my emphasis). He's still able to contribute, and have no reason to cease his existence.
Johnnie Hougaard Nielsen I would rather not be crippled lol. Only one person has to do all the thinking.
Lots of people are needed to actually do things.
Didn`t even listen to the answer yet but it is so obvious I don`t see how this is a question. Id choose the healthy body. The reason is if you take good care of yourself you can still have a mind that is healthier at 90 than ANY 90 year old body no matter what you do.
I'm reminded of a quote jack hargreaves attributes to one of his old tutors when faced with a room full of new students.
"To be as young as you, I would almost be prepared to be as naive as you."
Ok so this puts us at 5.5% of the way through, in about 210 days. So we're on pace to finish... at the end of July, 2031. Keep on truckin', Lloyd!
That last bit about wives sleeping around was very interesting. I'm going to use it as a humorous anecdote to impress my friend's wife..
Everyone knows that ageing gives your mind bonuses; +3 total to INT, WIS, and CHA. Pick body for benefits without drawbacks.
The part from the original frase by Juvenal says: You should pray for a healthy mind in a healthy body.
So please, take that in account.
Personally, my dad had dementia, and that was terrifying. However, my mum had breast cancer, arthritis, lymphodema and a half dozen other things, and that was also terrifying. But as Lloyd said, most peoples minds are decent well into old age, so I think I’d go for the body.
Edit; in the situation where I could only have one, I’d go for the mind any day. My dad could still walk and move things and it caused us no end of trouble. I’d want to spare my caretakers that and I think I could live with physical problems up to near total immobility. Also, I found that ending quite funny.
As somebody to whom physical activity comes about as naturally as calculus does to a walrus, I'd definitely pick a healthy mind over a health body if I had to decide between the two. I do agree the question isn't phrased very well, though.
It's honestly a weird question because most old people I've meet are sharp as a tack including my grandfather's cousin who's 85 and I don't belive he took extremely good care of himself. The other thing too is when you look at people who are incredibly active and take exceptionally good care of themselves their body is still "young" fairly deep into their old age.
Given the last bit about the phrase "who watches the watchmen?" I think the film "The watchmen" could (should perhaps) be remade into a very adult film.