Brilliant, Richard, simply brilliant, especially the 7th Microphone's placement. Right now, I can only quote "patience is a virtue" simply because I (and I'm sure everyone else in our BiS. Community) can't wait (but will have to, sob, sob) for the next videos in what will certainly be a fantastic, Gloucester Cathedral Organ miniseries. And yes, we can all see that you do, indeed, LOVE YOUR JOB!!!! It's so wonderful, to see you simply bubbling over with genuine excitement and sheer enthusiasm. Thank you.
OMG Richard! I think that we are in Heaven. Thank you so much for all of your incredibly dedicated work, for all of our mutually shared joys. The #7 directional mic into the 32' pipes is absolutely brilliant. What a great and groundbreaking week this is, for our international organ community and BiS VC. Cheerio!
Ah! Excellent! I regard David as the best sound engineer of choirs and organs in the country (and the world, perhaps?) so if he does it then I’m very happy to do it as well!! Plus - the results are phenomenal! Did you sing on that disk?
Just fantastic! I can’t wait to hear and learn more. Your natural ability to feel the acoustic as a performer is shaping your skills as an audio engineer 😊 (you know what it’s “supposed” to sound like and are refining your techniques along the way!) thank you so much for sharing the journey. 🥳
What a beautiful Church and explanation of what everything is. So interesting to learn. Looking forward to seeing it all. Thank you Richard. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Amazing Richard, I find all of this 'behind the scenes' stuff very interesting too! Looking forward to the future videos on it. It was great to see the microphone models and positions too!
Ok, Okay!..😳 That Was GREAT to See!😍 I love Organ Music and Sound. That's why I stopped in and listened to the video I watched So long ago.. and it's gotten better sense then.👍 Now to add the inner workings and views of the buildings?..😳 Beautiful!!!❤️ Just beautiful..!👏👏👏
After this video presentation, I am so excited to hear this concert. It seems like we're being included in a very exclusive tour of this organ and cathedral. Along with the rest of BIS I am looking forward to this weekend!
Looking forward to all of the videos from this expedition! Thank you for the views of the cathedral; they are great in the video and I am sure pale in comparison to actually standing in that vast space.
Richard I did smile when you said that you love your job !!!!! I'd never have guessed. You look just like the cat that got the cream. These informative behind the scene films are just what makes Beauty in Sound so good and I'm looking forward to the next in the series. Does the organ have a 2nd mobile console ? or just the fixed 1 in the loft ? Great film. Thanks
Would be great if you could record the organ at Ely Cathedral. It’s a really interesting organ with reeds that are super firey. Sadly the standard of musicianship is not always great - would love to hear you play Prizeman’s toccata!
Hi Richard... as a long-time editor of digital music (and sometime recording engineer), I'd be interested to see a video of your editing process and what software/hardware you use. I think you've promised this before but I can't remember seeing anything of this side of your recordings?
Hi Richard, I am curious to the results. As I suggested in an earlier recording session, using the onmidirectional siblings KM183 of your Neumann KM184 could possibly solve your demand for bass extension. A realistic bass extension, that is - curious what the very close reed/pedal mike is contributing and how realistic that will turn out. If you have a bit of time, I would recommend you to use the onmidirectional TLM170's about 1.5 meter apart (it's called an A-B layout) on the location where you put the KM184's. I think you will have all in one (one pair of mikes, actually): a good stereo image, a good mix of direct ('understandability', well I normally write in Dutch) and indirect sound, enough (and realistic) bass extension and enough of the ambience experience. Just shift them to and from the organ to get the mix of these contributions you like. As I responded to Gary Smith below, I record with only two microphones to achieve the above. I use the KM183's (and will not afford to buy more than one pair) and I am satisfied.
As I've said to Gary, I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on my capturing of the organ in my latest Organ Demonstration video, and how you think that using only 2 microphones would improve the sound that I've captured. Please leave me your feedback on this video: ua-cam.com/video/CjYTjaqbzyY/v-deo.html I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
For those interested, the organ builders Nicholsons have removed all the pipework from this instrument and the pipes have been melted down. The exception are the case pipes which date from the 17th century. So the Gloucester Cathedral organ shown here no longer exists. As such this demonstration is a useful historical record of the instrument before its destruction. The brand new organ is due to be completed in 2026.
How are you going to handle the varying distances of your microphones. Leave as is, or adjust in post? Why directional on low pedal when omni would have better bass response?
There isn't any sound delay between the microphones luckily, and this is why I didn't put the 170s too far back (I mentioned this in the video). I was quite careful to place the Choir and Front Nave microphones at the same distance from the pipes to avoid any sound delay, and there is very little sound bleed between them. Putting a mic on the 32' was a last minute decision, and the MC930 was all I had spare. I'm very happy with the sound - I'm editing it now!! 😁😁😁
@@beautyinsound If some time in the future you are looking for more microphones, check Microtech Gefell Gmbh. Especially the hypocardioid M 950 large diaphragm microphone is something else. The company is actually the east part of the split Neumann company and their mics are just as good and even more modern than their western brother's.
A spaced pair of omnis, two cardoid (presumably) XY pairs, and a single microphone located inside the organ case, all in different places and at what appears to be different distances from the instrument. Given that the true sound of an organ is intimately tied to the acoustic nature of the space within which it speaks, do you have any views about whether or not there is merit in capturing the specific stereo/surround soundscape of the instrument as heard and experienced at one specific, carefully chosen location within that space?
My placement of microphone ties into my years of experience of being a Cathedral Organist, and having played most of the organs in our Cathedrals here in the UK - each of which has it's very own acoustic. I'll get more into this in my final video of this series as it appears to have ruffled feathers (which I'm over the moon about!!). Quire microphones are slightly further back from the case because only the Choir and 50% of the Great speak into the choir. The balance between noise and source in the Quire is different to the balance in the Nave. Generally all the louder stops speak into the Nave. The Front Nave microphones are picking up a very clean and immediate sound - no nonsense whilst being very clear and direct. There is very little acoustic in these microphones. The Rear Nave are picking up a direct sound and ambience, and they do an awesome job at blending the two. The 32' microphone is only being used at crucial moments. Full organ (including Trompette Harmonique) does a good job at masking the 32', so if I had this microphone into the very bottom of the mix it makes a huge difference (Listen to the final C major chord of Jonathan's improvisation). I don't buy into the concept of capturing an organ from one single space - in an acoustic like this it simply does not work. Why? Well, when you're in a big building like this the sound is coming at you from all directions - front, back, top and bottom. It's literally bouncing off the walls and hitting you from all directions. A stereo pair of mics will not pick this up and does not reproduce an authentic of what one would hear in the Cathedral. How do I know? Because I'm usually the one playing the organ whilst feeling and hearing the sound bouncing of all the walls. It just seems like common sense to me that to immerse YOU as the listener in the Gloucester soundscape, I need to place you right in the middle of an awesome surround-sound field and as you'll see from the comments on the Organ Demonstration video - people rather like it. I even had a voice message from someone saying my microphone placements are "something he'd never seen before, where on Earth did I get that from?". Well, I do things my own way to find the sound that I want rather than following the conventional methods. Hope that answers your question? R
@@beautyinsound Cool. I personally have tended to the view that the stereoscape of an acoustic event in a space that contributes to the experience of the performance 3D surround sound soundscape is most accurately captured from a single carefully chosen point in the acoustic space using a Blumlein Pair of figure 8's with a single near coincident Omni. With that configuration, placement is critical, but the resulting acoustic image works very well decoded via surround sound listening equipment or with headphones. The downside is that if mic placement is poorly chosen (and as you know a few inches can make a big difference to mike placement) it can sound like rubbish - but that is true with the in-person heard experience within in the space too. Just as I see it. :) Check out the CD of The Organ Works of Cesar Frank performed by Jean Guillou at St Eustache, Paris on the Dorian label (1990 Franck Centenary Edition). The soundscape is marvellous, especially in the Prelude Fugue et Variation, and Piece Heroique. Some of the interference patterns set up by the reverberation of the 32' pipes add hugely to the experience. That's one of the recordings I use as a reference CD when assessing listening equipment and listening rooms. :)
As a long time employee of a pipe organ company here in the states of 33 years now, AND as a recordist of LIVE orchestra, organ and chorale performances, I was VERY excited at first, but quickly disappointed to see all those mikes deployed into such a grand space for an organ performance! It is a fact, that your recording will NOT be a 'true stereo' recording by any stretch and NOT what one would hear if they had actually been there. A mike on the pedal reed?? My thoughts are with the voicer and technicians whom scaled that stop for the organ AND for the room! Artificially highlighting that rank for experimental purposes is fun and fine, but NOT in a recording for a serious representation of such a fine instrument. To continue.... In MY experience, one can get PLENTY of room acoustics AND clarity of the organ with a pair of spaced omni's. Thats right, just TWO CHANNELS. I have even enjoyed great results with a pair of cardiods in ORTF configuration with PLENTY of room acoustic. Even a single point Mid Side will do that. Why turn a beautiful space such as this into a 'recording studio' with a mixer and so many 'mono' channels?? I take the time to find the right area in the space, generally 1/3rd into the room from the organ case. I request the fullest registration from the artist that will be used in the concert performance, set my levels once, and NEVER touch them again. For those of us who are also audiophiles AND musicians, a TRUE STEREO recording will always let the audio systems in our listening spaces reproduce a true STEREO 'image' during playback which can be very much enjoyed. However a recording of this type are rare and hard to acquire because the method takes extensive time, and time is money. In SO many cases, we are NOT able to hear the 'audience perspective', and sadly, that is what is happening here. We all have only two ears, why not record in true stereo for them?
Your approach is exactly what I do while recording, but of course this is also due to my limited budget! I utilize a pair of Neumann KM183, the onmidirectional siblings of Richard's four mikes in the nave and the choir (quire). This immediately also solves the lack of bass extension of the KM184's Richard use and make the third pair of Neumann TLM170's superfluous.
Can you please explain to me how, using your method of using only 2 microphones placed in the Nave, you'd capture the half of the Great division which speak East into the Quire as well as the entire Choir division which also speaks East? I'd be very interested to know. I'd also be interested to know which organs you've recorded where the organ is on the choir screen and which speaks in multiple directions like the one in Gloucester. Thanks.
@@beautyinsound Thank you RIchard for your question. It seems the Swell division has expressive shades to the east and west, the Great is exposed as well as pedal. From your description, it seems the Choir box is directed to only one side. The Positive is on the other. For me, I would record facing the full expression of the two divisions involved and forego the direct sound of the Postive. After all, that is what it really sounds like in the space, one simply can't be in both places at once. And, with that accoustic, all those mikes for ambience would not be needed either, they simply cloud the stereo image which will have plentiful and natural reverb already. As you mentioned, and your term for it 'messy', I certainly would not want to induce more. But, that is just me. I am sure your recording will be novel and grand, because it will make the organ and room sound bigger then it really is with 'expert mixing'. I am just not in that camp. Your second question..... I am honest when I say, I have had NO experience with an instrument positioned at the 'Quire' location, I only have recorded organs in the usual left, center, right of the front alter area, and of course rear gallery installations. But, in your case, that is how I would approach it. Less IS more when it comes to recording equipment. Why not just record with your spaced omni's on the Choir face. Pull the mikes into the room, bet you would hear the Positive mixing nicely into the space, and it would certainly be truer to what I would have heard if I was at the performance. Ok, sorry for sounding a bit ranty, but it is just a pet peave of mine when it comes to recording accoustic instruments in great spaces (O: Thanks for reading and continue having fun. PS. please be 'conservative' with that hot spot mike over that BIG pedal reed, I can't believe that it won't support the organ 'on it's own' in a recording.
@Gary Smith I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on my capturing of the organ in my latest Organ Demonstration video, and how you think that using only 2 microphones would improve the sound that I've captured. I know how disappointed you were to see all my mics ("mikes"?) deployed around the Cathedral, and I hope now you won't be quite so disappointed? Please leave me your feedback on this video: ua-cam.com/video/CjYTjaqbzyY/v-deo.html I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
@@beautyinsound Hello Richard, yes, I would like to hear your results and thanks for sharing the link to do so. Give me a bit of time, as I would like to sit down, relax and hear through one of my audio systems that has a Roku stream from youTube (youTube is not using the MP3 scheme as you propably know). I was discussing your recording with our company owner yesterday while on a service tuning call. He mentioned something about a recording from King's College that featured friend and colleage Nathan Laube at the console. I was interested in how that performance was captured. All he could say is that there were 'poles' in the air (O: I also asked him why the Glouchester instruments' choir box did not have shades on both sides as does the swell. His answer was something about space restrictions within the organ case. Perhaps you know more? Ok, I write again. PS. Here is a thought. Have you tinkered with the idea of using your multi mike system in a descrete config for multi channel / surround playback?
Brilliant, Richard, simply brilliant, especially the 7th Microphone's placement. Right now, I can only quote "patience is a virtue" simply because I (and I'm sure everyone else in our BiS. Community) can't wait (but will have to, sob, sob) for the next videos in what will certainly be a fantastic, Gloucester Cathedral Organ miniseries. And yes, we can all see that you do, indeed, LOVE YOUR JOB!!!! It's so wonderful, to see you simply bubbling over with genuine excitement and sheer enthusiasm. Thank you.
Those ACOUSTICS!!! Can't wait to visit this special place again
Very interesting. Yiou have the recordings down to a fine art. Beautiful architecture.
OMG Richard! I think that we are in Heaven. Thank you so much for all of your incredibly dedicated work, for all of our mutually shared joys. The #7 directional mic into the 32' pipes is absolutely brilliant. What a great and groundbreaking week this is, for our international organ community and BiS VC. Cheerio!
A David Hinitt trick, used for the 2008 Hyperion recording of David Briggs' music by the choir of Trinity College, Cambridge.
Ah! Excellent! I regard David as the best sound engineer of choirs and organs in the country (and the world, perhaps?) so if he does it then I’m very happy to do it as well!!
Plus - the results are phenomenal! Did you sing on that disk?
I used that disk as my benchmark. It was mine and Jonathan’s attempt to capture the organ in a similar way.
Just fantastic! I can’t wait to hear and learn more. Your natural ability to feel the acoustic as a performer is shaping your skills as an audio engineer 😊 (you know what it’s “supposed” to sound like and are refining your techniques along the way!) thank you so much for sharing the journey. 🥳
Really looking forward to hearing this!
Hope you’ve had chance to have a peek? Looking forward to recording you again!
@@beautyinsound Yes it's most enjoyable - well done you and Jonathan!
What a beautiful Church and explanation of what everything is. So interesting to learn. Looking forward to seeing it all. Thank you Richard. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Amazing Richard, I find all of this 'behind the scenes' stuff very interesting too! Looking forward to the future videos on it. It was great to see the microphone models and positions too!
SO FABULOUS!!! ENJOYING this so much and not even half way through!!! Thank you for everything kind sir
Splended explanation !
Ok, Okay!..😳 That Was GREAT to See!😍 I love Organ Music and Sound. That's why I stopped in and listened to the video I watched So long ago.. and it's gotten better sense then.👍 Now to add the inner workings and views of the buildings?..😳 Beautiful!!!❤️ Just beautiful..!👏👏👏
After this video presentation, I am so excited to hear this concert. It seems like we're being included in a very exclusive tour of this organ and cathedral. Along with the rest of BIS I am looking forward to this weekend!
Looking forward to all of the videos from this expedition! Thank you for the views of the cathedral; they are great in the video and I am sure pale in comparison to actually standing in that vast space.
I really enjoy your presentations at each cathedral you play at Richard. Beautiful cathedral and pipe organ!
You certainly know how to build suspense. Can't wait for the rest!!
Some serious kit there Richard! Superb.
Amazing. I have too many albums of this organ. Also the flutes of this organ are amazing. Can't wait for the recital on this organ!
Sounding very good. Roll on next weekend already!
Richard I did smile when you said that you love your job !!!!! I'd never have guessed. You look just like the cat that got the cream. These informative behind the scene films are just what makes Beauty in Sound so good and I'm looking forward to the next in the series. Does the organ have a 2nd mobile console ? or just the fixed 1 in the loft ? Great film. Thanks
Thanks for the video. This was very interesting.
Really enjoyed this Richard, now to get my Soda and Popcorn at the ready for the next videos of this beast of an Organ - Can't wait!
Such stunning windows.
I hope we'll get to see the musicians' windows some time?
Looking forward to hearing the end results!
Wonderful
Oooo that echo, Ooo that resonance
Yumee, yumy, yummy
Would be great if you could record the organ at Ely Cathedral. It’s a really interesting organ with reeds that are super firey. Sadly the standard of musicianship is not always great - would love to hear you play Prizeman’s toccata!
Nothing beats an English cathedral
Hi Richard... as a long-time editor of digital music (and sometime recording engineer), I'd be interested to see a video of your editing process and what software/hardware you use. I think you've promised this before but I can't remember seeing anything of this side of your recordings?
Will hopefully do it soon!
Hi Richard, I am curious to the results. As I suggested in an earlier recording session, using the onmidirectional siblings KM183 of your Neumann KM184 could possibly solve your demand for bass extension. A realistic bass extension, that is - curious what the very close reed/pedal mike is contributing and how realistic that will turn out. If you have a bit of time, I would recommend you to use the onmidirectional TLM170's about 1.5 meter apart (it's called an A-B layout) on the location where you put the KM184's. I think you will have all in one (one pair of mikes, actually): a good stereo image, a good mix of direct ('understandability', well I normally write in Dutch) and indirect sound, enough (and realistic) bass extension and enough of the ambience experience. Just shift them to and from the organ to get the mix of these contributions you like.
As I responded to Gary Smith below, I record with only two microphones to achieve the above. I use the KM183's (and will not afford to buy more than one pair) and I am satisfied.
As I've said to Gary, I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on my capturing of the organ in my latest Organ Demonstration video, and how you think that using only 2 microphones would improve the sound that I've captured. Please leave me your feedback on this video: ua-cam.com/video/CjYTjaqbzyY/v-deo.html I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
For those interested, the organ builders Nicholsons have removed all the pipework from this instrument and the pipes have been melted down. The exception are the case pipes which date from the 17th century. So the Gloucester Cathedral organ shown here no longer exists. As such this demonstration is a useful historical record of the instrument before its destruction. The brand new organ is due to be completed in 2026.
CD time!
How are you going to handle the varying distances of your microphones. Leave as is, or adjust in post? Why directional on low pedal when omni would have better bass response?
There isn't any sound delay between the microphones luckily, and this is why I didn't put the 170s too far back (I mentioned this in the video). I was quite careful to place the Choir and Front Nave microphones at the same distance from the pipes to avoid any sound delay, and there is very little sound bleed between them. Putting a mic on the 32' was a last minute decision, and the MC930 was all I had spare. I'm very happy with the sound - I'm editing it now!! 😁😁😁
@@beautyinsound If some time in the future you are looking for more microphones, check Microtech Gefell Gmbh. Especially the hypocardioid M 950 large diaphragm microphone is something else. The company is actually the east part of the split Neumann company and their mics are just as good and even more modern than their western brother's.
A spaced pair of omnis, two cardoid (presumably) XY pairs, and a single microphone located inside the organ case, all in different places and at what appears to be different distances from the instrument. Given that the true sound of an organ is intimately tied to the acoustic nature of the space within which it speaks, do you have any views about whether or not there is merit in capturing the specific stereo/surround soundscape of the instrument as heard and experienced at one specific, carefully chosen location within that space?
My placement of microphone ties into my years of experience of being a Cathedral Organist, and having played most of the organs in our Cathedrals here in the UK - each of which has it's very own acoustic. I'll get more into this in my final video of this series as it appears to have ruffled feathers (which I'm over the moon about!!).
Quire microphones are slightly further back from the case because only the Choir and 50% of the Great speak into the choir. The balance between noise and source in the Quire is different to the balance in the Nave. Generally all the louder stops speak into the Nave.
The Front Nave microphones are picking up a very clean and immediate sound - no nonsense whilst being very clear and direct. There is very little acoustic in these microphones.
The Rear Nave are picking up a direct sound and ambience, and they do an awesome job at blending the two.
The 32' microphone is only being used at crucial moments. Full organ (including Trompette Harmonique) does a good job at masking the 32', so if I had this microphone into the very bottom of the mix it makes a huge difference (Listen to the final C major chord of Jonathan's improvisation).
I don't buy into the concept of capturing an organ from one single space - in an acoustic like this it simply does not work. Why? Well, when you're in a big building like this the sound is coming at you from all directions - front, back, top and bottom. It's literally bouncing off the walls and hitting you from all directions. A stereo pair of mics will not pick this up and does not reproduce an authentic of what one would hear in the Cathedral. How do I know? Because I'm usually the one playing the organ whilst feeling and hearing the sound bouncing of all the walls.
It just seems like common sense to me that to immerse YOU as the listener in the Gloucester soundscape, I need to place you right in the middle of an awesome surround-sound field and as you'll see from the comments on the Organ Demonstration video - people rather like it.
I even had a voice message from someone saying my microphone placements are "something he'd never seen before, where on Earth did I get that from?". Well, I do things my own way to find the sound that I want rather than following the conventional methods.
Hope that answers your question?
R
@@beautyinsound Cool. I personally have tended to the view that the stereoscape of an acoustic event in a space that contributes to the experience of the performance 3D surround sound soundscape is most accurately captured from a single carefully chosen point in the acoustic space using a Blumlein Pair of figure 8's with a single near coincident Omni. With that configuration, placement is critical, but the resulting acoustic image works very well decoded via surround sound listening equipment or with headphones. The downside is that if mic placement is poorly chosen (and as you know a few inches can make a big difference to mike placement) it can sound like rubbish - but that is true with the in-person heard experience within in the space too. Just as I see it. :)
Check out the CD of The Organ Works of Cesar Frank performed by Jean Guillou at St Eustache, Paris on the Dorian label (1990 Franck Centenary Edition). The soundscape is marvellous, especially in the Prelude Fugue et Variation, and Piece Heroique. Some of the interference patterns set up by the reverberation of the 32' pipes add hugely to the experience. That's one of the recordings I use as a reference CD when assessing listening equipment and listening rooms. :)
As a long time employee of a pipe organ company here in the states of 33 years now, AND as a recordist of LIVE orchestra, organ and chorale performances, I was VERY excited at first, but quickly disappointed to see all those mikes deployed into such a grand space for an organ performance!
It is a fact, that your recording will NOT be a 'true stereo' recording by any stretch and NOT what one would hear if they had actually been there.
A mike on the pedal reed?? My thoughts are with the voicer and technicians whom scaled that stop for the organ AND for the room! Artificially highlighting that rank for experimental purposes is fun and fine, but NOT in a recording for a serious representation of such a fine instrument.
To continue....
In MY experience, one can get PLENTY of room acoustics AND clarity of the organ with a pair of spaced omni's. Thats right, just TWO CHANNELS. I have even enjoyed great results with a pair of cardiods in ORTF configuration with PLENTY of room acoustic. Even a single point Mid Side will do that.
Why turn a beautiful space such as this into a 'recording studio' with a mixer and so many 'mono' channels?? I take the time to find the right area in the space, generally 1/3rd into the room from the organ case. I request the fullest registration from the artist that will be used in the concert performance, set my levels once, and NEVER touch them again.
For those of us who are also audiophiles AND musicians, a TRUE STEREO recording will always let the audio systems in our listening spaces reproduce a true STEREO 'image' during playback which can be very much enjoyed. However a recording of this type are rare and hard to acquire because the method takes extensive time, and time is money.
In SO many cases, we are NOT able to hear the 'audience perspective', and sadly, that is what is happening here. We all have only two ears, why not record in true stereo for them?
Your approach is exactly what I do while recording, but of course this is also due to my limited budget! I utilize a pair of Neumann KM183, the onmidirectional siblings of Richard's four mikes in the nave and the choir (quire). This immediately also solves the lack of bass extension of the KM184's Richard use and make the third pair of Neumann TLM170's superfluous.
Can you please explain to me how, using your method of using only 2 microphones placed in the Nave, you'd capture the half of the Great division which speak East into the Quire as well as the entire Choir division which also speaks East? I'd be very interested to know.
I'd also be interested to know which organs you've recorded where the organ is on the choir screen and which speaks in multiple directions like the one in Gloucester.
Thanks.
@@beautyinsound
Thank you RIchard for your question. It seems the Swell division has expressive shades to the east and west, the Great is exposed as well as pedal. From your description, it seems the Choir box is directed to only one side. The Positive is on the other. For me, I would record facing the full expression of the two divisions involved and forego the direct sound of the Postive.
After all, that is what it really sounds like in the space, one simply can't be in both places at once. And, with that accoustic, all those mikes for ambience would not be needed either, they simply cloud the stereo image which will have plentiful and natural reverb already. As you mentioned, and your term for it 'messy', I certainly would not want to induce more. But, that is just me.
I am sure your recording will be novel and grand, because it will make the organ and room sound bigger then it really is with 'expert mixing'. I am just not in that camp.
Your second question..... I am honest when I say, I have had NO experience with an instrument positioned at the 'Quire' location, I only have recorded organs in the usual left, center, right of the front alter area, and of course rear gallery installations.
But, in your case, that is how I would approach it. Less IS more when it comes to recording equipment. Why not just record with your spaced omni's on the Choir face. Pull the mikes into the room, bet you would hear the Positive mixing nicely into the space, and it would certainly be truer to what I would have heard if I was at the performance.
Ok, sorry for sounding a bit ranty, but it is just a pet peave of mine when it comes to recording accoustic instruments in great spaces (O: Thanks for reading and continue having fun.
PS. please be 'conservative' with that hot spot mike over that BIG pedal reed, I can't believe that it won't support the organ 'on it's own' in a recording.
@Gary Smith I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on my capturing of the organ in my latest Organ Demonstration video, and how you think that using only 2 microphones would improve the sound that I've captured. I know how disappointed you were to see all my mics ("mikes"?) deployed around the Cathedral, and I hope now you won't be quite so disappointed? Please leave me your feedback on this video: ua-cam.com/video/CjYTjaqbzyY/v-deo.html I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
@@beautyinsound Hello Richard, yes, I would like to hear your results and thanks for sharing the link to do so. Give me a bit of time, as I would like to sit down, relax and hear through one of my audio systems that has a Roku stream from youTube (youTube is not using the MP3 scheme as you propably know).
I was discussing your recording with our company owner yesterday while on a service tuning call. He mentioned something about a recording from King's College that featured friend and colleage Nathan Laube at the console. I was interested in how that performance was captured. All he could say is that there were 'poles' in the air (O:
I also asked him why the Glouchester instruments' choir box did not have shades on both sides as does the swell. His answer was something about space restrictions within the organ case. Perhaps you know more?
Ok, I write again.
PS. Here is a thought. Have you tinkered with the idea of using your multi mike system in a descrete config for multi channel / surround playback?