Good to see the ideological consistency! "Those who don't practice the art shouldn't speak as experts on the art." "Oh, we don’t actually know Japanese swordsmanship as much as we thought. Time to learn more before we say anything else!"
@Canine_Seraph How do you not understand why I made that comment? It's in reaction to them saying, AT THE END OF THE VIDEO, "We're going to learn kendo now."
@@SellswordArtsit was an old fence post in a horse pasture, but yes. I would tie my Mengane to it and practice left hand only tsuki to the nodo target almost daily when I was younger.
in Kendo you practice 1000 times every cut, every day (it was never the sword, the entire legend of the katana were the users who practiced like a modern soldier would, firing then thousand rounds just to be proficient at a given platform)
@@SellswordArtswhen I got to meet Jason Kingsley he told me that most of learning to fight from horseback was learning to ride the horse. I nearly hit myself and the horse, dropped my spear and my sword and fell off more than once when I tried it 😄
As someone who loves the uchigatana (katana) and takes it seriously as a hobby it’s refreshing to hear a hema practitioner who uses the long sword finally do an actual test with both an untrained and trained spar to learn about the sword as much as they wanted to prove a thesis. The fact that you guys are taking the time to learn in kendo as well deserves respect, thank you; I love this channel
Yes, and so far they basically confirm that both are practically the same, each with its advantages and disadvantages. So it comes down to the swordman.
So the final conclusion was: "Inconclusive, need more research. So we're gonna learn Kendo for real, baby!". I think this is one of the best videos I've seen on this topic. Keep it up, guys!
An unbiased and informative video on this subject is exactly what we need as a community. This debate started as an uninformed comparison caused by popular media; people glorified the katana to the point they disrespected the longsword. Then the tables turned, and the Sword community highlighted how amazing the Longsword was to such a great effect, that the less informed within the community started hating the katana for not being the mystical weapon it was supposed to be. Now I simply hope we can correct both mistakes without taking things to either extreme, and this is a step in the right direction.
This is the best Katana vs Longsword video that I’ve seen. Objectively talking about the differences in design of the weapon, and the differences in the fighting styles. Also, having a good discussion and learning from each other. Cheers! 🍻
Admitting you have a lot to learn even though some of the skills you already have could be transferrable is such a breath of fresh air for a content maker
Finally someone took lack of skill into account! It is awesome that you found someone who knows how to use a katana and then tested which performes better. Great video.
6:16 Right there. He rushes in gets parried into horizontal slash was crazy! I'm no sword expert so IDK the term for what you did before you cut his nipple section, but damn...! That shit looks cool!
@@arkdoesstuff7362Yeah I was really hoping to see that or at least some total concentration breathing techniques. Frankly disgusting that he calls himself proficient at Japanese swordsmanship when we ALL KNOW what that would look like.
@@greanbeen2816I can’t believe he didn’t activate his haki, he would of easily parried all those strikes - and then his blades would of been harder to parry!
I'll be honest, I have been one of your contents biggest(offline) critics, alot of the reasons are things youve heard before(too trollish, too judgmental, too biased based on your own ability ect). But this turned out to be one of the single best depictions of a cross discipline study I've seen in a long time(maybe ever). You we're more fair and open in this video than I have ever seen you be on any other subject, and you openly SOUGHT OUT AN OPPONENT WHO KNEW THE STYLE, and sparred with him, edited the sparring fairly, and presented a balanced review. THIS video could well be a benchmark on how interdisciplinary schools should be compared. Very nicely done. . . . . .....youre still a troll tho. 😝
You can tell the video creator made an genuine effect for education purpose instead of like so many other comparison videos where people who have not spent a day in or passed entry level of any kenjutsu or koryu trying to teaching you how katana is used.
Oh well - that was unexpected and surprisingly refreshing! I apprecciate the humility and the attempt to reach out to someone who practiced some form of Japanese martial arts to show that indeed beeing acquainted with the techniques can really make a difference. I agree with Rusty point, I think that there is really no ground to say that one is better than the other. A simple cross guard with no side rings or such is really not any better than a larger tsuba in the practical terms, and when equally matched in reach, the outcome is relying on the skill. While a longsword and a tachi/ōkatana do look similar and there are similar body mechanics, I think the nuances really matter and it showed. Just having the confidence to use the weapon and the difference handling showed an effect on the sparring. I'd add that kendo and kenjutsu are slightly different, and there would be some adjustment needed (think of olympic fencing and actual HEMA saber/side sword) but you probably know this already. Good job and good luck with your journey with Kendo!
This is some amazing insight. Thank you David, Clark, Rusty, and anyone else involved. Looking forward to seeing you journey moving forward and learning vicariously through you since I'm too broke to travel and learn as much as I'd like.
As a kendoka, I’m really interested! Your channel is for me the best source of knowledge about HEMA and the western tradition. So, I’m very curious about your perspective on kendo. However, keep in mind that kendo doesn’t prepare you to fight with a katana. The techniques are derived from kenjutsu but have been adapted for safe practice with shinai. Kendo doesn’t aim to simulate real combat; rather, it represents a non-violent evolution of it. Nevertheless, it’s still the best path for intensive sparring in the eastern tradition. In kendo, sparring, competitions, and examinations are incredibly important for testing and pressuring oneself. Another thing worth remembering is that learning curve in kendo is really slow. After 15 years of practice, I’m taking my 4th dan exam this year, which is often said to be the dividing line between beginners and intermediate practitioners. It’s possible to reach this point sooner - maybe in 7-8 years - but realistically, outside Japan, it’s difficult and still not particularly fast. This slow pace means that during the first years of practicing kendo, you’ll be taught many simplifications, which might be confusing for someone experienced in another branch of fencing. Thanks for the great content and good luck!
Turns out being good at a weapon makes it a lot more useful. Seriously though good video. I think its silly when people try and portray one as objectively better than the other. Something missing from the samurai vs knight debate is that both would adapt. It wouldnt be like For Honor where each faction stubbornly only uses their own weapons, both sides would change the types of armor, weapons and techniques depending on whats most effective against their new foe. We see this plenty of times in history where martial arts and weapons change because of who they were facing.
Amazing video, and really good mindset as whole. Tbh, I should have excepted that coming from this channel, but is great to see that you guys still maintain that. This is also an amazing video to see just how much changes with the person holding the sword, and now I want to learn how to use both weapons. Plus, this video is great for animation references so... Thanks for that!
When I seen tittle, I was ready to write VERY angry comment, but I was blown up by this content. Genuinely best video I seen on topic. You know what? I am subscribing on spot.
I'm a photographer, there has always been brand fandom war, canon vs nikon vs sony vs fuji etc. The more i learn about photography, the less important the camera becomes. It's more about the photographer, light, lens. camera is the least important factor. Maybe it's the same with swordsmanship. The fencer is the most important factor, but about armor? Helmet visibility? Shield? Shoes? Gauntlets? Are they more important factor than the sword itself? I chose canon because back then canon has the most cheap (but good) 3rd party lenses & accessories. So what makes me chose canon was the surrounding environment, not the camera itself
one "big flaw" of kendo-kenjutsu is how it has adapted to specifically bypass a Yoroi (japanese heavy armour) and simply forgets to deffend areas of the body that would be night-invulnerable thanks to said yoroi (mainly neck and soulders) it is true that katana wasnt used against yoroi in the Edo period, this could be a long conversation, which schools started when and which tachniques... but you get the idea, enviroment beeing important.
Even though techniques with the false edge of the longsword are probably a bit quicker, by rotating your wrists you can perform the same cuts with a Katana. Experience in kenjutsu may definitely help resolve some of those disadvantages. Edit: ok, Rusty clarified the same thing in the video. This, folks, is why you should watch the entire video before commenting.
Thanks for addressing the range issue! I've been waiting to see someone put the katana and longsword on more equal footing. Also, the UA-cam channel "Let's ask Seki Sensei" has a video somewhere demonstrating how to do a sneaky undercut with the single-edged blade.. not so easy but still possible!
Future collab with the "Let's ask Seki Sensei" channel? I know he's handled some western analogues (because of Japanese laws), so he'd be a fun person to go with.
I appreciate this video. Me being equally terrible in both iaido and battojutsu, I was thinking "But, you guys are using the katana like a longsword!" Then, bam! Part 2.
Soooo hyped to see you guys start getting into Japanese swordsmanship, both modern and traditional (hopefully). Can't wait to hear how it goes! Also, mad respect to you for this video. It was super interesting and very eye-opening because I think I and many other viewers had similar expectations of the initial duel you guys did between the o-katana and LS, and the results and subsequent follow up-experiment were super interesting. Much love for the fun and educational content and for inspiring me to be a better swordsman as well!
Loved this video and getting to see the difference in philosophy and approach explored here. I’ve sparred with longswords for over a decade now and have never had the privilege to spar with a trained katana user. Seeing that left one handed thrust from Rusty was CRAZY smooth and something I have rarely dealt with in sparring opponents. Couple that with the difference in grip and guard stances seeing those differences and countermeasures explored was really cool thank you guys
I quite enjoy the dynamic of David and Clark understanding what they don't know and learning more of the topic. Myself, am trying to get into krieg messer.
I really appreciate videos like this because I feel like for martial arts in general, there’s a huge division between western and eastern arts and are usually kept pretty separate from each other and I feel that this is a huge factor in such heated debates about what the better art is. I would love to see a sport like HEMA that mixes in eastern weapon arts as well
I'm glad you guys are going to be broadening your horizons in weapon based martial arts. One thing i want to say is that there is a fairly significant difference in training kendo and kenjutsu. Kendo being a sport has kinda of regimented it to specific attacks and hit zones. So it's not going to give you the same kind of experience that free fencing does. Kenjutsu and iaijutsu have styles, or ryuha, to them. Rusty actually practices the same iai style that i do, which is awesome btw. The various styles have their quirks that make them unique, but the main thing is that they teach you to actually cut your opponent. Now that being said is not that kendo is useless in learning how to fight with a Japanese sword. In fact, it will help instill the foundation you need for it. But once you learn that, i would say to try to seek out an actual kenjutsu school if you can find one.
Kenjutsu kata also have target areas, which at least within the ancestor styles for kendo e.g. Itto-ryu and Jikishinkage-ryu align pretty well with those for shinai kendo. The hands are the shallowest target, the neck and face are your best reach, and the liver is a deep target. I am not sure how many more one needs when the goal is to create the opportunity to execute precision waza. Kendo has an opponent but no sword, thus it emphasizes control of the opponent; (seitei) iaido has a sword but no opponent, thus it emphasizes control of the sword. I hope you agree that the purpose of kendo to be a lesson in controlling your opponent to create the opportunity to execute your waza, in your case from MSR.
I love this video. especially the praise for suriage (counter beat) technique. it really shows how a sharp piece of metal can be used differently compared to another just due to a few changes. I believe kendo will do two things for your swordsman ship: 1. it will make it worse from a European dueling pov as you'll learn the differences in foot work and they're drastic and emphasize the forward motion in a very different way. 2. it'll improve it. especially if you learn more about sutemi because hesitation loses. (good luck with debana men if you get that far, it's the pinnacle of kendo and is arguably the hardest technique there is). (btw 3yrs kendo practitioner nidan) Good Luck!!!
Once I discovered you guys, you were my new favorite UA-camrs. Not enough people appreciate martial arts and melee combat. My favorite videos are the hook sword ones, but I was wondering if you guys could do a video where you mess around with Sai swords. I think it would be really damn funny, because you guys would have to step out of your comfort zone and experiment. Hope to see some of that ✌️
The only way to test this is to put only the 2 swords in a cage and see which one wins the fight. People are not allowed to be in the cage, only the 2 swords. This is similar to how I would test if guns shoot when they want to.
This is such a cool concept! I would love if yall made a series of epsodes that compare swords. (I would love to see the butterfly swords vs kali sticks or flamberge vs a saber)
If you wrote any results down it definitely counts as science. Respect for deciding to just learn a whole new art to understand it more. True passion and sportsmanship
Last week, it snowed for the first time in years so we all went out and enjoyed it. I met some guys with toy swords who let me use them and it was so fun, I even used a lot of HEMA drills I learned from your videos. They said I did pretty good but when I had a toy light saber duel with my roommate who loves Star Wars, he accidentally split my lip. In short I gotta keep watching your awesome videos and keep practicing😎⚔️🤺
Very hopeful for more content about cross cultural martial arts experiences, specifically japanese. There’s been a few things that sort of fit that, like seki-sensei’s foreign weapon videos, but there hasnt really been any good videos about two actual learned practitioners of different historical martial arts discussing and sparring.
It’s interesting how much the build and philosophy of how a blade function can fundamentally change how a battle works. Sure, using a katana like you would a long sword can be affective against noobs, but against an actual katana user… not so much. Sure a long sword has edges on both sides, making it able to pressure more, but the katana is more about deflection anyway… makes me wonder how close a match between master level swordsmen from both arts would be, considering how back and forth you guys and Rusty got. Great video!
In the past when I've watched you guys use the katana it never looked like kenjutsu, it looked like HEMA with a katana. What I like about this video is that Rusty looks like he's using kenjutsu and it's working. You guys aren't able to hit him in ways you were able to hit each other. This suggest the differences between kenjutsu and HEMA may be more than just stylistic. It seems they have functional applications and reasons for existing. In effect the sword and the sword style evolved in conjuction with each other. Plus I'm so happy to see that the wrist position thing is valid. My kenjutsu instructor always ripped into me if I got lazy and stopped doing it. This here provided evidence of why he pushed it so hard.
Underrated comment, the difference between using a Katana the proper way or not is abysmal, I used to practice "medieval sword" (HEMA didnt exist back in my youth, it was destreza if you what I mean) and then went into Kendo-Kenjutsu very confident in my skills... I was humbled, the hand position Rusty mentions changes everything, the footwork if you want to review this video you can easily observe how different it is both feet paralel and looking forward, never crossing (left allways behind right foot) that also opens different techniques and changes dramatically the reach of the shorter katana
If you guys are taking up kendo I would highly recommend reading the Kendo Tokuhon by Noma Hisashi for some historical context regarding what kendo was supposed to be during the lifetime of the author (1909-1938). I find that it helps to clarify what is martial about the hobby.
First of all, great video! I like that you compare these swords from a very practical standpoint. I also like that you emphasize important points like skill of the individual fighter. Now my question: Isn’t it a but dishonest to swap the longsword for a shorter one to give the Katana a better chance? Longswords were longer than katanas on average, and that’s one of the longswords strengths. Using a shorter one on purpose already implies that the katana has a deficiency that can only be overcome by giving the longsword a handicap? Okay, after finishing the whole video, you adressed that’s the end.
Interesting how a more cut-centric 2-handed style stacks up. Cool to see how a deflection/counter-cut approach interacts with the longsword's point work at range. And despite the emphasis on counter-cuts, it seems like the aggressive, forward stance with the katana makes up for some of the loss in tempo, drawing out interactions on your terms. In the evolution of a cut-focused system, I can definitely see such a pressuring, committal style becoming favored in un-armored/civilian contexts. And despite its single edge, it was cool to see the curve of the katana almost aid the left-hand thrusts in creating a similar effect to some of the back edge snipes of the longsword.
I'd love to see you two play blade and sorcery VR and see how you think of it, theres a little bit of VR jank but if you actually want to do good in fights these videos have actually helped me
I have taken a lot of katana training and one thing I just find so stupid is the Idea that a katana and a longsword can be better than the other. They are different weapons with different techniques. The katana is not ment to fight the longsword. So neither are better. They are different weapons from different styles.
They do the same job at equal length and are both two hand. They are very much both swords. They can be compared. One can be better in a measured way. A Katana is single edge and asymmetrical. On a small katana that can be overcome easy with skill. The issue is Katanas are heavy enough already for what they are since they have to be stiff to defend. The weight imbalance worse on larger swords because its asymmetrical weight. They get worse to wield fast. There is a reason the small ones are favored. You can get a sword thats longer for the same job and weight if it does not have to be as stiff which with a gurad it does not to be as stiff. It does not take ultra specific techniques when more work. A katana is an optimal option for a small sword compared to be the same as a long sword that is not long. Not true as they both get bigger. Big katanas could use a pommel and to be less asymmetrical so they can be wielded. A katana with a good handle should still be better than a saber when you want a controlled attack for both 1 or 2 hand. A katana can be better than a long sword at the same blade length but that is if the handle is longer. (More mass that can be swung quite hard). Katanas have a good blade geometry so for the mass and both not being sharp a katana can cut better.
@@MatchGrade08 thats the thing, they never were the same length ... Tachi and Odachi - which were PRIMARY battlefield swords not sidearms - were, but to compare Longsword vs Katana and force them to be "the same length" is totally nonsensical Katana should be compared to Messer and Kriegsmesser, or against Sabre or Rapier - when put against Longsword due to its "function" as dueling and self defense BATTLEFIELD sidearm it simply cant measure up - literally - because the same "type of function" Longsword will ALWAYS be longer and when you go into civilian self defense/duelling use case again Messer, Sabre or Rapier are more viable comparisons.
@@Asghaad the odachi and tachi are still katana shaped which should be compared. The design once it comes closer to odachi size starts to do worse. Its asymmetrical so harder to wield at that size. A long sword of same size likely beats a tachi and I would expect the advantage to be greater at odachi length. At odachi length an odachi is going to be slower to move quick in one direction like the long sword but alot slower to turn compared to the longsword due to no reverse edge cuts and edge alignment more difficult taking more force and torque because its got unaligned mass far away. If the other swords are too similar you are more comparing features, build quality and price.
@ did you watch the video ? they sayd the same length Odachi to same length longsword was suprisingly close - mainly because they are using modern Odachi made from springsteel and not traditional differentially hardened one that would be SIGNIFICANTLY heavier so its less about blade shape and whats actually important differentiator is material and technological construction. yes Longsword has certain SLIGHT advantages when compared to japanese style blade BUT people are missing the forest for the trees here nd true reason why medieval arms and armor were of superior design compared to what was available to isolationist small island country with severe problems sourcing quality iron to begin with which is why its kinda bad to force design that was limited by the technology and cultural limitations of its origin to be "equal" to a blade designed in region with abundant resources and constant war driving innovation in weapons technology. which leads to "tests" like these where an objectively superior blade design is intentionally put against oposition that is not really in the same "class" to "level the playing field which simply put just proves that the design is superior ... if only way to "level the playing field" is to go for different class of blade that is also made from superior materials and is of higher "level" of construction that would be even possible in the era it was used (for Tachi and Odachi that would be around +- 800AD btw ...) then all you are proving here is that indeed Katana (which is EDO PERIOD design ... ) is not a fair match against Longsword.
@@Asghaad they said to match the length of their shorter katana they used shorter long swords. Rusty wanted a stiffer sword. That meant he got to use his shorter sword. He thought the swords were the same at the same length but he wasnt useing a longer katana. The longer katanas are where the design starts to do bad. He thought they were about the same but he uses a shorter one. The long sword scales better when it gets bigger. That means the long sword is going to end up better if they are they are equal on the small size end. If a longer sword clearly got you alot, alot of katanas would have probably have been longer but the long swords got longer so the katanas were likely adequate enough to slightly longer katanas. Long swords would not be as long as they are on average if people thought they could get away with having shorter one against a longer one. They likely point out skill as hard as they do with katanas because a longer katana does not scale as well so the length difference is more marginal for their sword style. Cant as easily make it a little longer and win alot more battles when it get less stiff which you need for your style and it gets more exponentially hard to manuver any way you want because its imbalanced and favors being moved only in one way which matters less if it is a short sword. A short katana is short. I think there was a shad video where they reviewed a much longer katana or odachi expecting to like any other katana but it just felt alot worse than they expected.
So take away points: 1) Weapon reach matters 2) Different weapons were designed for different cultures/purposes 3) A weapon is only as good as its wielder
I took exactly one class from a kenjustu practitioner who also does HEMA. Coming from German longsword, the first difference i noticed was the bind. The bind seems to be heavily de-emphasised, favoring quick parries, almost like saber.
Next , try Khopesh vs Shotel Because either blades curve in the opposite direction to the other , it would be interesting to see how different sword techniques would be used
I appreciate the talk about different kinds of swords. About katana in particular, one thing a lot of people don't realize is that the term 'katana' is a lot more fluid and generic than many realize. Many act like the 'tachi' and the 'katana' are categorically different but it is not that simple. Historically 'katana' is just a more generic term with 'tachi' being a specific type, And colloquially, both in Japanese and in English, most people don't make a strong distinction between the swords the samurai used in the Kamakura period and the ones they used during the Edo period, so to say that only the latter can be called 'katana' feels wrong (if you want to use a more specific word, 'uchigatana' is better). To take more to the extreme, the naginata (a polearm) has historically been a 'katana' as well, which you can tell by looking at the japanese name ('katana' is 刀 while 'naginata' is 薙刀). Nowadays I don't think anyone on either language would call a naginata a 'katana', but still it shows how words and cathegories aren't that simple. That is to say, I appreciate you guys actually finding a katana of approximate length instead of using an Edo period short uchigatana.
Rusty is such a badass! Is there any chance we could get some more sparring between you guys and him? Maybe you could even do some sort of choreography, like a 3-way battle or something :O
The men who gave us kendo, and early practicioners seem pretty clear in their writings that kendo was intended to be standardised kenjutsu. At least from those writings which have been translated to English.
Grappling has not been done in ZNKR kendo since prior to WWII. I believe that the Haga-ha guys still grapple. So sure, kendo is not a combat simulation, but then neither is the kata of the koryu. The koryu guys where I train kendo don't grapple either. From Takano Sasaburo in Kendo Kyohon (1930): （二）組打の方法 昔の合戰では遠くからは弓矢で戰ひ、近づいては槍・薙刀・太刀などの打物を取つて渡り合ひ、それで勝負の附かぬ時は、敵を組み敷き、押へ込み、右手差を抜いて鎧の隙間を差し通し、首を掻いたのである。それに倣つて組打の場合は、敵を組み敷いて、腕を逆に取るか、面を捻つて動かぬやうにするか、或は面を捻り取るのである。劍道は劍を執つての技であるから、止むを得ざる場合の外は、組打を避けるが宜しい。我が强力を恃んで、弱い者に强ひて組み附き、組打を挑むのは宜しくない。敵が劍を打落した場合、直に撃込むことが出來なかつたならば、少しも油斷なく心で敵を壓し、然る後に拾ひ取らせるのである。昔は打物取つて勝負の附かぬ時、若しくは一方が太刀打折つて、大手を擴げ組打を挑んで來る時は、組んで利なきは明かであつても、直に之に應じ討死するを習としたのである。名を重んじ、恥を思ふ武士の襟懐まことに仰ぐべきものがある。敵の劍を撃落した場合、氣合を抜かず、許す所なく直に撃込むのが劍道の法であるが、敵の劍を落せるに附け込んで、所嫌わず撃込み、勝を得んと焦るが如きは見苦しき限りである。 I have only read an English translation but the key point that I take from it is: "Because in kendo the techniques are concerned with the sword, outside of situations when it can’t be helped, you should avoid grappling. If you have great strength, challenging people to grapple or wrestling with those who are weak is incorrect." As for target areas, we use the same ones Takano Sasaburo claimed were part of the original formulation of gekiken by his teacher Nakanishi Chubei Tanemasa. Indeed the introduction of gyaku-dou prior to WWII had the effect of making kendo more sport-like so that kendo could compete effectively with jukendo in ishu jiai.
@@ugjhlnVery few koryu kenjutsu styles have maintained their traditional sparring curricula. I am aware of a Tennen Rishin-ryu group, and the Hokushin Itto-ryu guys in Germany, I have also seen clips of a Jikishinkage-ryu group sparring. From these I believe only Tennen Rishin-ryu incorporates grappling in their sparring. I don't think any of these kenjutsu styles are available to train in Texas.
Good to see the ideological consistency!
"Those who don't practice the art shouldn't speak as experts on the art."
"Oh, we don’t actually know Japanese swordsmanship as much as we thought. Time to learn more before we say anything else!"
finish the video then mate, they realised that and changed to sparring against a katana pro
@Canine_Seraph How do you not understand why I made that comment? It's in reaction to them saying, AT THE END OF THE VIDEO, "We're going to learn kendo now."
@@farkasmactavish oh sorry they said something like that in the beggining of the vid too i must have gotten confused
"SELLSWORD CALLED ME OUT!!!"
Rusty is the guy who practiced one kick 10000 times the way he was throwing that left hand thrust...
Actually though. He's so accurate with that one handed thrust because he spent hours in a field thrusting a log over and over!
@@SellswordArtsit was an old fence post in a horse pasture, but yes.
I would tie my Mengane to it and practice left hand only tsuki to the nodo target almost daily when I was younger.
@@rustysbladeandadventure1729that's actually the thrust in both Japanese Kenjutsu and our European HEMA that I'm really bad at so good work 😄
@@valandil7454 much appreciated
in Kendo you practice 1000 times every cut, every day (it was never the sword, the entire legend of the katana were the users who practiced like a modern soldier would, firing then thousand rounds just to be proficient at a given platform)
Most wholesome and positive katana vs longsword thing I ever saw.
So when are you guys learning to fence on horseback? :p
when we have that horse money...
@@SellswordArtswhen I got to meet Jason Kingsley he told me that most of learning to fight from horseback was learning to ride the horse.
I nearly hit myself and the horse, dropped my spear and my sword and fell off more than once when I tried it 😄
@@SellswordArts Scratch that. When will you go to space to have a proper lightsaber duel?
As someone who loves the uchigatana (katana) and takes it seriously as a hobby it’s refreshing to hear a hema practitioner who uses the long sword finally do an actual test with both an untrained and trained spar to learn about the sword as much as they wanted to prove a thesis. The fact that you guys are taking the time to learn in kendo as well deserves respect, thank you; I love this channel
Yes, and so far they basically confirm that both are practically the same, each with its advantages and disadvantages. So it comes down to the swordman.
So the final conclusion was: "Inconclusive, need more research. So we're gonna learn Kendo for real, baby!".
I think this is one of the best videos I've seen on this topic. Keep it up, guys!
An unbiased and informative video on this subject is exactly what we need as a community.
This debate started as an uninformed comparison caused by popular media; people glorified the katana to the point they disrespected the longsword.
Then the tables turned, and the Sword community highlighted how amazing the Longsword was to such a great effect, that the less informed within the community started hating the katana for not being the mystical weapon it was supposed to be.
Now I simply hope we can correct both mistakes without taking things to either extreme, and this is a step in the right direction.
@@addictedtochocolate920 imagine what their knowledge will birth...
This is the best Katana vs Longsword video that I’ve seen. Objectively talking about the differences in design of the weapon, and the differences in the fighting styles. Also, having a good discussion and learning from each other. Cheers! 🍻
Admitting you have a lot to learn even though some of the skills you already have could be transferrable is such a breath of fresh air for a content maker
I want that Ditto sweater. Also absolutely love that after-sesh sitdown with Mr.Rusty, really insightful conversation.
the blob sweater is magnificent
ditto i think
Put some respect on ditto’s name
Finally someone took lack of skill into account! It is awesome that you found someone who knows how to use a katana and then tested which performes better.
Great video.
This is THE katana vs. long sword video I'm wining to see on the internet. Great work!
6:16 Right there. He rushes in gets parried into horizontal slash was crazy! I'm no sword expert so IDK the term for what you did before you cut his nipple section, but damn...! That shit looks cool!
Thank you, It's called Sui Hei Giri in Iaido.
This puts you so far above a lot of sword youtubers.
Too bad Rusty isn't proficient in infusing the blade with chakra and using it to enhance his iaijutsu, he'da swamped ya!
@@EtherForce I'm a bit sad he didn't use bankai
@@arkdoesstuff7362Yeah I was really hoping to see that or at least some total concentration breathing techniques. Frankly disgusting that he calls himself proficient at Japanese swordsmanship when we ALL KNOW what that would look like.
@@greanbeen2816I can’t believe he didn’t activate his haki, he would of easily parried all those strikes - and then his blades would of been harder to parry!
What is bro on about
I'll be honest, I have been one of your contents biggest(offline) critics, alot of the reasons are things youve heard before(too trollish, too judgmental, too biased based on your own ability ect). But this turned out to be one of the single best depictions of a cross discipline study I've seen in a long time(maybe ever). You we're more fair and open in this video than I have ever seen you be on any other subject, and you openly SOUGHT OUT AN OPPONENT WHO KNEW THE STYLE, and sparred with him, edited the sparring fairly, and presented a balanced review. THIS video could well be a benchmark on how interdisciplinary schools should be compared. Very nicely done.
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.....youre still a troll tho. 😝
You can tell the video creator made an genuine effect for education purpose instead of like so many other comparison videos where people who have not spent a day in or passed entry level of any kenjutsu or koryu trying to teaching you how katana is used.
As someone training in japanese Kenjutsu and loving your HEMA Shorts when I am bored hearing you start Kendo: Now you got my attention! subscribed :D
@@TheTenguwarrior you are a freakin' weeaboo
Oh well - that was unexpected and surprisingly refreshing! I apprecciate the humility and the attempt to reach out to someone who practiced some form of Japanese martial arts to show that indeed beeing acquainted with the techniques can really make a difference.
I agree with Rusty point, I think that there is really no ground to say that one is better than the other. A simple cross guard with no side rings or such is really not any better than a larger tsuba in the practical terms, and when equally matched in reach, the outcome is relying on the skill.
While a longsword and a tachi/ōkatana do look similar and there are similar body mechanics, I think the nuances really matter and it showed. Just having the confidence to use the weapon and the difference handling showed an effect on the sparring.
I'd add that kendo and kenjutsu are slightly different, and there would be some adjustment needed (think of olympic fencing and actual HEMA saber/side sword) but you probably know this already.
Good job and good luck with your journey with Kendo!
As a 2° dan in kendo I wish you the best experience with your kendo practice and I'm looking forward to your kendo content. Keep cooking, guys
A wise man once said, "It depends on the context!"
Or... From a certain point of view.
“It’s a matter of the hand. Not the steel it’s holding”
Been following you guys for years. Can’t wait to see where your Kendo journey takes you 👌🔥
As a professional living human, I can confirm that that sweater is something that I am interested in.
You should test both in reverse grip
Ikr, I'm surprised they didn't since obviously that's the best grip 😅
This is some amazing insight. Thank you David, Clark, Rusty, and anyone else involved. Looking forward to seeing you journey moving forward and learning vicariously through you since I'm too broke to travel and learn as much as I'd like.
Clark I swear you have the best collection of sweaters I've ever seen and I gotta know where you bought them
DAMN MAN!! That's why you guys are professional. Can't wait for your next!!
This is the best video on the subject i've seen so far. the conclusion is satisfying and consistent
As a kendoka, I’m really interested! Your channel is for me the best source of knowledge about HEMA and the western tradition. So, I’m very curious about your perspective on kendo.
However, keep in mind that kendo doesn’t prepare you to fight with a katana. The techniques are derived from kenjutsu but have been adapted for safe practice with shinai. Kendo doesn’t aim to simulate real combat; rather, it represents a non-violent evolution of it. Nevertheless, it’s still the best path for intensive sparring in the eastern tradition. In kendo, sparring, competitions, and examinations are incredibly important for testing and pressuring oneself.
Another thing worth remembering is that learning curve in kendo is really slow. After 15 years of practice, I’m taking my 4th dan exam this year, which is often said to be the dividing line between beginners and intermediate practitioners. It’s possible to reach this point sooner - maybe in 7-8 years - but realistically, outside Japan, it’s difficult and still not particularly fast. This slow pace means that during the first years of practicing kendo, you’ll be taught many simplifications, which might be confusing for someone experienced in another branch of fencing.
Thanks for the great content and good luck!
Turns out being good at a weapon makes it a lot more useful.
Seriously though good video. I think its silly when people try and portray one as objectively better than the other. Something missing from the samurai vs knight debate is that both would adapt. It wouldnt be like For Honor where each faction stubbornly only uses their own weapons, both sides would change the types of armor, weapons and techniques depending on whats most effective against their new foe.
We see this plenty of times in history where martial arts and weapons change because of who they were facing.
Amazing video, and really good mindset as whole. Tbh, I should have excepted that coming from this channel, but is great to see that you guys still maintain that. This is also an amazing video to see just how much changes with the person holding the sword, and now I want to learn how to use both weapons.
Plus, this video is great for animation references so... Thanks for that!
When I seen tittle, I was ready to write VERY angry comment, but I was blown up by this content. Genuinely best video I seen on topic.
You know what? I am subscribing on spot.
I'm a photographer, there has always been brand fandom war, canon vs nikon vs sony vs fuji etc. The more i learn about photography, the less important the camera becomes. It's more about the photographer, light, lens. camera is the least important factor.
Maybe it's the same with swordsmanship. The fencer is the most important factor, but about armor? Helmet visibility? Shield? Shoes? Gauntlets? Are they more important factor than the sword itself?
I chose canon because back then canon has the most cheap (but good) 3rd party lenses & accessories. So what makes me chose canon was the surrounding environment, not the camera itself
one "big flaw" of kendo-kenjutsu is how it has adapted to specifically bypass a Yoroi (japanese heavy armour) and simply forgets to deffend areas of the body that would be night-invulnerable thanks to said yoroi (mainly neck and soulders) it is true that katana wasnt used against yoroi in the Edo period, this could be a long conversation, which schools started when and which tachniques... but you get the idea, enviroment beeing important.
Even though techniques with the false edge of the longsword are probably a bit quicker, by rotating your wrists you can perform the same cuts with a Katana. Experience in kenjutsu may definitely help resolve some of those disadvantages.
Edit: ok, Rusty clarified the same thing in the video. This, folks, is why you should watch the entire video before commenting.
thank you for uploading ❤ was having a rough day and this made it so much better
Thanks for addressing the range issue! I've been waiting to see someone put the katana and longsword on more equal footing.
Also, the UA-cam channel "Let's ask Seki Sensei" has a video somewhere demonstrating how to do a sneaky undercut with the single-edged blade.. not so easy but still possible!
This is probably one of my favorite videos so far wish you do more reaching out to other experts in different fields for help
Future collab with the "Let's ask Seki Sensei" channel? I know he's handled some western analogues (because of Japanese laws), so he'd be a fun person to go with.
I appreciate this video. Me being equally terrible in both iaido and battojutsu, I was thinking "But, you guys are using the katana like a longsword!" Then, bam! Part 2.
God i love these guys, insanely addictive to watch
Soooo hyped to see you guys start getting into Japanese swordsmanship, both modern and traditional (hopefully). Can't wait to hear how it goes!
Also, mad respect to you for this video. It was super interesting and very eye-opening because I think I and many other viewers had similar expectations of the initial duel you guys did between the o-katana and LS, and the results and subsequent follow up-experiment were super interesting.
Much love for the fun and educational content and for inspiring me to be a better swordsman as well!
Who’s the Camera person? I feel like they deserve some props too (also great video)
Fry is the camera person, and they did a great job!
They definitely do! Their very steady and do a great job keeping up with Y’all’s quick swordsmanship
Very excellent and densely analysis!
Loved this video and getting to see the difference in philosophy and approach explored here. I’ve sparred with longswords for over a decade now and have never had the privilege to spar with a trained katana user. Seeing that left one handed thrust from Rusty was CRAZY smooth and something I have rarely dealt with in sparring opponents. Couple that with the difference in grip and guard stances seeing those differences and countermeasures explored was really cool thank you guys
I fucking loved this video, really. Literally what i've been saying for years (as i've been practicing japanese martial arts since I was 14).
I quite enjoy the dynamic of David and Clark understanding what they don't know and learning more of the topic. Myself, am trying to get into krieg messer.
I really appreciate videos like this because I feel like for martial arts in general, there’s a huge division between western and eastern arts and are usually kept pretty separate from each other and I feel that this is a huge factor in such heated debates about what the better art is. I would love to see a sport like HEMA that mixes in eastern weapon arts as well
I'm glad you guys are going to be broadening your horizons in weapon based martial arts. One thing i want to say is that there is a fairly significant difference in training kendo and kenjutsu.
Kendo being a sport has kinda of regimented it to specific attacks and hit zones. So it's not going to give you the same kind of experience that free fencing does.
Kenjutsu and iaijutsu have styles, or ryuha, to them. Rusty actually practices the same iai style that i do, which is awesome btw. The various styles have their quirks that make them unique, but the main thing is that they teach you to actually cut your opponent.
Now that being said is not that kendo is useless in learning how to fight with a Japanese sword. In fact, it will help instill the foundation you need for it. But once you learn that, i would say to try to seek out an actual kenjutsu school if you can find one.
Kenjutsu kata also have target areas, which at least within the ancestor styles for kendo e.g. Itto-ryu and Jikishinkage-ryu align pretty well with those for shinai kendo.
The hands are the shallowest target, the neck and face are your best reach, and the liver is a deep target. I am not sure how many more one needs when the goal is to create the opportunity to execute precision waza.
Kendo has an opponent but no sword, thus it emphasizes control of the opponent; (seitei) iaido has a sword but no opponent, thus it emphasizes control of the sword. I hope you agree that the purpose of kendo to be a lesson in controlling your opponent to create the opportunity to execute your waza, in your case from MSR.
Sellsword Arts guys were awesome in this vid, respect!
I've always been curious to see how kendo would combine with freeform sparring. Not badly apparently! Wish you fun, it's an amazing art
I love this video. especially the praise for suriage (counter beat) technique. it really shows how a sharp piece of metal can be used differently compared to another just due to a few changes. I believe kendo will do two things for your swordsman ship: 1. it will make it worse from a European dueling pov as you'll learn the differences in foot work and they're drastic and emphasize the forward motion in a very different way. 2. it'll improve it. especially if you learn more about sutemi because hesitation loses. (good luck with debana men if you get that far, it's the pinnacle of kendo and is arguably the hardest technique there is). (btw 3yrs kendo practitioner nidan) Good Luck!!!
Once I discovered you guys, you were my new favorite UA-camrs. Not enough people appreciate martial arts and melee combat. My favorite videos are the hook sword ones, but I was wondering if you guys could do a video where you mess around with Sai swords. I think it would be really damn funny, because you guys would have to step out of your comfort zone and experiment. Hope to see some of that ✌️
Woah!!!!! Kendo footage soon!!! 🥰💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
rusty's moves with the katana are the closest i have ever seen as a jedi master lightsaber moves level
This comment is absolutely going to go to my head.
Gotta try the wrist thing. Thanks, Rusty!
The only way to test this is to put only the 2 swords in a cage and see which one wins the fight. People are not allowed to be in the cage, only the 2 swords. This is similar to how I would test if guns shoot when they want to.
Thanks for doing this video!
This is such a cool concept! I would love if yall made a series of epsodes that compare swords. (I would love to see the butterfly swords vs kali sticks or flamberge vs a saber)
This video remind me why i fking love you guys. Keep it onnnnnnnn
it’s interesting that with his experience as a kendo specialist, when wielding the long sword vs the katana he utilized a looot of thrusts
I can testify, now that I own the Karl messer from Landsknecht Emporium, that a messer does in fact quickdraw just as well as a katana.
If you wrote any results down it definitely counts as science. Respect for deciding to just learn a whole new art to understand it more. True passion and sportsmanship
Last week, it snowed for the first time in years so we all went out and enjoyed it. I met some guys with toy swords who let me use them and it was so fun, I even used a lot of HEMA drills I learned from your videos. They said I did pretty good but when I had a toy light saber duel with my roommate who loves Star Wars, he accidentally split my lip. In short I gotta keep watching your awesome videos and keep practicing😎⚔️🤺
Very hopeful for more content about cross cultural martial arts experiences, specifically japanese. There’s been a few things that sort of fit that, like seki-sensei’s foreign weapon videos, but there hasnt really been any good videos about two actual learned practitioners of different historical martial arts discussing and sparring.
I subscribed thanks to this one boys!
Glad you liked it!
You should make a colab with sensei Seki
It’s interesting how much the build and philosophy of how a blade function can fundamentally change how a battle works. Sure, using a katana like you would a long sword can be affective against noobs, but against an actual katana user… not so much. Sure a long sword has edges on both sides, making it able to pressure more, but the katana is more about deflection anyway… makes me wonder how close a match between master level swordsmen from both arts would be, considering how back and forth you guys and Rusty got. Great video!
In the past when I've watched you guys use the katana it never looked like kenjutsu, it looked like HEMA with a katana.
What I like about this video is that Rusty looks like he's using kenjutsu and it's working. You guys aren't able to hit him in ways you were able to hit each other.
This suggest the differences between kenjutsu and HEMA may be more than just stylistic. It seems they have functional applications and reasons for existing. In effect the sword and the sword style evolved in conjuction with each other.
Plus I'm so happy to see that the wrist position thing is valid. My kenjutsu instructor always ripped into me if I got lazy and stopped doing it. This here provided evidence of why he pushed it so hard.
Underrated comment, the difference between using a Katana the proper way or not is abysmal, I used to practice "medieval sword" (HEMA didnt exist back in my youth, it was destreza if you what I mean) and then went into Kendo-Kenjutsu very confident in my skills... I was humbled, the hand position Rusty mentions changes everything, the footwork if you want to review this video you can easily observe how different it is both feet paralel and looking forward, never crossing (left allways behind right foot) that also opens different techniques and changes dramatically the reach of the shorter katana
If you guys are taking up kendo I would highly recommend reading the Kendo Tokuhon by Noma Hisashi for some historical context regarding what kendo was supposed to be during the lifetime of the author (1909-1938).
I find that it helps to clarify what is martial about the hobby.
Very interesting. It really is true that all things depends on the one using other things. It was fun seeing masters in their fields🙂
Its pretty cool seeing you guys use the katana vs rusty. There's a very clear difference in skill and handling the different type of blade.
6:16 badass finisher move
First of all, great video! I like that you compare these swords from a very practical standpoint.
I also like that you emphasize important points like skill of the individual fighter. Now my question: Isn’t it a but dishonest to swap the longsword for a shorter one to give the Katana a better chance? Longswords were longer than katanas on average, and that’s one of the longswords strengths. Using a shorter one on purpose already implies that the katana has a deficiency that can only be overcome by giving the longsword a handicap?
Okay, after finishing the whole video, you adressed that’s the end.
Interesting how a more cut-centric 2-handed style stacks up. Cool to see how a deflection/counter-cut approach interacts with the longsword's point work at range. And despite the emphasis on counter-cuts, it seems like the aggressive, forward stance with the katana makes up for some of the loss in tempo, drawing out interactions on your terms.
In the evolution of a cut-focused system, I can definitely see such a pressuring, committal style becoming favored in un-armored/civilian contexts.
And despite its single edge, it was cool to see the curve of the katana almost aid the left-hand thrusts in creating a similar effect to some of the back edge snipes of the longsword.
I'd love to see you two play blade and sorcery VR and see how you think of it, theres a little bit of VR jank but if you actually want to do good in fights these videos have actually helped me
I heard science but all I could think about is how i need my drip game on your level! Great video as always!
5:51 “ shorter long swords “ …. So like , a regular sword then?
Well there are "shorter" longswords such as the early 13th century longswords and the "longer" 15th century longswords.
I have taken a lot of katana training and one thing I just find so stupid is the Idea that a katana and a longsword can be better than the other. They are different weapons with different techniques. The katana is not ment to fight the longsword. So neither are better. They are different weapons from different styles.
They do the same job at equal length and are both two hand. They are very much both swords. They can be compared. One can be better in a measured way.
A Katana is single edge and asymmetrical. On a small katana that can be overcome easy with skill. The issue is Katanas are heavy enough already for what they are since they have to be stiff to defend.
The weight imbalance worse on larger swords because its asymmetrical weight. They get worse to wield fast. There is a reason the small ones are favored.
You can get a sword thats longer for the same job and weight if it does not have to be as stiff which with a gurad it does not to be as stiff. It does not take ultra specific techniques when more work. A katana is an optimal option for a small sword compared to be the same as a long sword that is not long. Not true as they both get bigger. Big katanas could use a pommel and to be less asymmetrical so they can be wielded.
A katana with a good handle should still be better than a saber when you want a controlled attack for both 1 or 2 hand. A katana can be better than a long sword at the same blade length but that is if the handle is longer. (More mass that can be swung quite hard). Katanas have a good blade geometry so for the mass and both not being sharp a katana can cut better.
@@MatchGrade08 thats the thing, they never were the same length ... Tachi and Odachi - which were PRIMARY battlefield swords not sidearms - were, but to compare Longsword vs Katana and force them to be "the same length" is totally nonsensical
Katana should be compared to Messer and Kriegsmesser, or against Sabre or Rapier - when put against Longsword due to its "function" as dueling and self defense BATTLEFIELD sidearm it simply cant measure up - literally - because the same "type of function" Longsword will ALWAYS be longer and when you go into civilian self defense/duelling use case again Messer, Sabre or Rapier are more viable comparisons.
@@Asghaad the odachi and tachi are still katana shaped which should be compared.
The design once it comes closer to odachi size starts to do worse. Its asymmetrical so harder to wield at that size. A long sword of same size likely beats a tachi and I would expect the advantage to be greater at odachi length.
At odachi length an odachi is going to be slower to move quick in one direction like the long sword but alot slower to turn compared to the longsword due to no reverse edge cuts and edge alignment more difficult taking more force and torque because its got unaligned mass far away.
If the other swords are too similar you are more comparing features, build quality and price.
@ did you watch the video ? they sayd the same length Odachi to same length longsword was suprisingly close - mainly because they are using modern Odachi made from springsteel and not traditional differentially hardened one that would be SIGNIFICANTLY heavier
so its less about blade shape and whats actually important differentiator is material and technological construction.
yes Longsword has certain SLIGHT advantages when compared to japanese style blade BUT people are missing the forest for the trees here nd true reason why medieval arms and armor were of superior design compared to what was available to isolationist small island country with severe problems sourcing quality iron to begin with
which is why its kinda bad to force design that was limited by the technology and cultural limitations of its origin to be "equal" to a blade designed in region with abundant resources and constant war driving innovation in weapons technology.
which leads to "tests" like these where an objectively superior blade design is intentionally put against oposition that is not really in the same "class" to "level the playing field which simply put just proves that the design is superior ...
if only way to "level the playing field" is to go for different class of blade that is also made from superior materials and is of higher "level" of construction that would be even possible in the era it was used (for Tachi and Odachi that would be around +- 800AD btw ...) then all you are proving here is that indeed Katana (which is EDO PERIOD design ... ) is not a fair match against Longsword.
@@Asghaad they said to match the length of their shorter katana they used shorter long swords.
Rusty wanted a stiffer sword. That meant he got to use his shorter sword. He thought the swords were the same at the same length but he wasnt useing a longer katana. The longer katanas are where the design starts to do bad. He thought they were about the same but he uses a shorter one. The long sword scales better when it gets bigger. That means the long sword is going to end up better if they are they are equal on the small size end. If a longer sword clearly got you alot, alot of katanas would have probably have been longer but the long swords got longer so the katanas were likely adequate enough to slightly longer katanas. Long swords would not be as long as they are on average if people thought they could get away with having shorter one against a longer one.
They likely point out skill as hard as they do with katanas because a longer katana does not scale as well so the length difference is more marginal for their sword style. Cant as easily make it a little longer and win alot more battles when it get less stiff which you need for your style and it gets more exponentially hard to manuver any way you want because its imbalanced and favors being moved only in one way which matters less if it is a short sword. A short katana is short.
I think there was a shad video where they reviewed a much longer katana or odachi expecting to like any other katana but it just felt alot worse than they expected.
So take away points:
1) Weapon reach matters
2) Different weapons were designed for different cultures/purposes
3) A weapon is only as good as its wielder
4) you’d have a bad day if you got cut by either one
Damn I was thinking about what you guys thought about katana since you are more into European swords. And you guys made a video about it. Awesome!
love you guys, but seriously everytime I watch your vids I have to check if Shogun 2 or the Witcher 3 is still running just because of the musik xD
I took exactly one class from a kenjustu practitioner who also does HEMA. Coming from German longsword, the first difference i noticed was the bind. The bind seems to be heavily de-emphasised, favoring quick parries, almost like saber.
I want more of this kind of stuff
Been watching a LOT of Highlander recently and this is practically every episode of Katana vs X weapon
Next , try Khopesh vs Shotel
Because either blades curve in the opposite direction to the other ,
it would be interesting to see how different sword techniques would be used
3:37
Shad silently fuming while stroking his pet koala in the outback rn
Love the content.
i'm so hyped for kendo
The Halberd (the Naginata)
naginata’s a glaive
0:08 lol when i see that sweater, all i see is ditto
Longsword with hybrid reverse grip does good against everything shorter.
With fools guard.
Hey, at least some of us read descriptions
🌟
Woah, unexpected Rusty lore video!
I appreciate the talk about different kinds of swords. About katana in particular, one thing a lot of people don't realize is that the term 'katana' is a lot more fluid and generic than many realize. Many act like the 'tachi' and the 'katana' are categorically different but it is not that simple. Historically 'katana' is just a more generic term with 'tachi' being a specific type, And colloquially, both in Japanese and in English, most people don't make a strong distinction between the swords the samurai used in the Kamakura period and the ones they used during the Edo period, so to say that only the latter can be called 'katana' feels wrong (if you want to use a more specific word, 'uchigatana' is better). To take more to the extreme, the naginata (a polearm) has historically been a 'katana' as well, which you can tell by looking at the japanese name ('katana' is 刀 while 'naginata' is 薙刀). Nowadays I don't think anyone on either language would call a naginata a 'katana', but still it shows how words and cathegories aren't that simple.
That is to say, I appreciate you guys actually finding a katana of approximate length instead of using an Edo period short uchigatana.
Love this video 😊
"A debate thats been raging on the internet, since the Internet was invented." That moment when tou realize you're older than Google. (Cries in 1988)
Rusty is such a badass! Is there any chance we could get some more sparring between you guys and him? Maybe you could even do some sort of choreography, like a 3-way battle or something :O
日本語て失礼します。
（動画主の言葉も機械翻訳なので、どこまで発言を正確に捉えているか不安ですが）
刀vs（西洋）剣と言うと、単に西洋剣術を学んでいる人が刀を使うだけ。と言う動画が多い中、かなり公平な見解だったと思います。
武器の優劣は長い・短い、軽い・重いだけで判断できるものでないと考えるからです。
武器の優劣より重要なのは、自身が扱う武器の熟練度と相手の武器の戦い方をどれだけ知っているか・予測できるかに依存すると思うからです。
この辺は、最強の格闘技や武術は何か？と言う論争に近いですね。
個人的には、強い奴が勝つ。若しくは、自身に有利なルールで戦えた人が勝つ可能性が高くなる。くらいで結論は出ない話と考えます。
あと、剣道（kendo）を学び始めたそうですが、剣術（kenjutsu）の方が刀の扱い方と言う点で目的に適うのではないかと思います。打撃箇所も違いますし、動き方も剣道（kendo）は直線的で剣術（kenjutsu）の多くは円運動を含みます。
動画主さんが日本語を知っているか、自動翻訳が機能する事を祈ります。
楽しい動画でした。
The men who gave us kendo, and early practicioners seem pretty clear in their writings that kendo was intended to be standardised kenjutsu. At least from those writings which have been translated to English.
@@Ianmar1翻訳が正確な事を祈ります。
私は最初期の剣道がどの様なものか知りませんが、現代剣道では、打撃後の組み討ち（投げ）は、ありません。打突部位も、面・小手・胴・突き以外は有効打と認められません、更に、打撃の際は姿勢・打撃の強さ等で有効・無効が判断されると思います。
誤解してほしくないのですが、現代剣道を否定する気はありません。一つのジャンルとして凄いと思います。
ただ、同じ物だと捉えるのは違うんじゃないかと思うのです。
Grappling has not been done in ZNKR kendo since prior to WWII. I believe that the Haga-ha guys still grapple.
So sure, kendo is not a combat simulation, but then neither is the kata of the koryu. The koryu guys where I train kendo don't grapple either.
From Takano Sasaburo in Kendo Kyohon (1930):
（二）組打の方法
昔の合戰では遠くからは弓矢で戰ひ、近づいては槍・薙刀・太刀などの打物を取つて渡り合ひ、それで勝負の附かぬ時は、敵を組み敷き、押へ込み、右手差を抜いて鎧の隙間を差し通し、首を掻いたのである。それに倣つて組打の場合は、敵を組み敷いて、腕を逆に取るか、面を捻つて動かぬやうにするか、或は面を捻り取るのである。劍道は劍を執つての技であるから、止むを得ざる場合の外は、組打を避けるが宜しい。我が强力を恃んで、弱い者に强ひて組み附き、組打を挑むのは宜しくない。敵が劍を打落した場合、直に撃込むことが出來なかつたならば、少しも油斷なく心で敵を壓し、然る後に拾ひ取らせるのである。昔は打物取つて勝負の附かぬ時、若しくは一方が太刀打折つて、大手を擴げ組打を挑んで來る時は、組んで利なきは明かであつても、直に之に應じ討死するを習としたのである。名を重んじ、恥を思ふ武士の襟懐まことに仰ぐべきものがある。敵の劍を撃落した場合、氣合を抜かず、許す所なく直に撃込むのが劍道の法であるが、敵の劍を落せるに附け込んで、所嫌わず撃込み、勝を得んと焦るが如きは見苦しき限りである。
I have only read an English translation but the key point that I take from it is:
"Because in kendo the techniques are concerned with the sword, outside of situations when it can’t be helped, you should avoid grappling. If you have great strength, challenging people to grapple or wrestling with those who are weak is incorrect."
As for target areas, we use the same ones Takano Sasaburo claimed were part of the original formulation of gekiken by his teacher Nakanishi Chubei Tanemasa. Indeed the introduction of gyaku-dou prior to WWII had the effect of making kendo more sport-like so that kendo could compete effectively with jukendo in ishu jiai.
1930年刊行。
私は、“現代剣道”と表現しています。
そしで、何を言いたいかが分かりません。
“現代剣道”と表現してますが、“現代”が最低でも1930→2025とは思いませんでした。自分にとって戦前・戦後の区切りは強いので。
で、何をどう主張しているか分かりません。
剣道経験者なら、有効打突部位以外の攻撃は「何やってんだ、こいつ」だったり「汚い事する奴だ」だったりは結構ある感想な気がします。私自身は昔取得したものですが2段は持っています。
私が主張したのは、スポーツ化した“現代剣道”よりも
“剣術”の方が動画主さんの目的に合うのではないか？と言うものです。
@@ugjhlnVery few koryu kenjutsu styles have maintained their traditional sparring curricula. I am aware of a Tennen Rishin-ryu group, and the Hokushin Itto-ryu guys in Germany, I have also seen clips of a Jikishinkage-ryu group sparring. From these I believe only Tennen Rishin-ryu incorporates grappling in their sparring.
I don't think any of these kenjutsu styles are available to train in Texas.
Never heard of an "Okatana," but I have heard of an "Odachi."
I wanna know though... How did rusty deal with the double edge of the long sword so effectively??? Would love to know
Thank you for the inquiry, If you deflect the sword away or cut it away before cutting your opponent, it doesn't matter how many edges it has.