What if, the reason Jack is so pissed not just because he knows what the Cyberman will do in the future, but also because he has a deep personal hatred of them, as at this point, he’d think that Rose would’ve died during the battle of canary wharf
Exactly...Jack is one of the doctors most trusted allies, and he knows what has to be done. Call it inhumane but that’s what the doctor is sometimes, Let’s say if Lisa (cyberwoman) upgraded that Asian doctor, that’s a fully upgraded cyberman inside torchwood base, then it would lead to Ianto and then to the team and before you know it’s spreading across Wales to the uk and ultimately to the world. Jack does not take chances and he’s only doing what needs to be done, and in roses case that’s a very good point cos in The Utopia episode in doctor who he mentions that he thought rose died during the battle of Canary warf so it’s fully possible that’s why he’s much more intense this time around.
@@thehorrorcounselors4747 Also at the same time Jack is immortal, however if he could be converted that would create a fully functioning, immortal and indestructible Cyberman. Whether he could be converted or not is unknown, to us and to him, however I doubt he wants to take the chance to find out.
Also, quite possibly lived through it back in the 51st. Course this team doesn't (yet) know anything about him in this episode - only Gwen knows he doesn't stay dead and she doesn't understand it yet. I just rewatched the series and was VERY surprised to realize that Ciberwoman was episode 4 of series 1
0:39-0:50 this statement from Ianto really shows the prospective of how he feels just being their cleaner and feeling unimportant to the group, very powerful stuff and great acting from Gareth David-Lloyd (Ianto)
I love how this also sets up a subversion in the same episode. Like there’s no moment “we never did ask him..we did take him for granted,” like you’d get on any other show, no way. They just leave him still to clear their shit up no questions asked. XD
its a great piece of accidental foreshadowing where jack mentions that they assimilate entire planets, up until nightmare in silver we had only seen cybermen (in the revival anyway) limited to earth, and even then they struggled to survive a resistance by humans
Ianto's girlfriend presumably comes before Ianto and Jack's affair. That mean's in Ianto's origin story, he is flirting with Jack while hiding her cyberman girlfriend in new Torchwood? I have always wondered about that... or have I remembered incorrectly?
This is episode 4 series 1, so not a lot of time to flirt yet (and not a lot of it in this episode...). Also it's really really hard for humans to accurately clock flirting vs. banter. But no matter how you square it, I'd say Ianto took advantage of Jack's flirtations to disguise his real feelings/intentions. After all, he's clearly Not Happy with Torchwood in this clip because of what happened to Lisa yet he lied about it for months.
The audio dramas confirm the flirting happened before They Keep Killing Suzie but before was merely banter. They weren't close until said audio drama as Jack mentions.
@@nytesla_punk3327 Ah, I've never heard the audios, and I've only read a handful of the books. I'm sticking with the TV canon until I can get a hold of the rest.
@@Tamashi88 you can find some on youtube or get the transcripts. I personally consider the audios canon unless someone says otherwise (for Torchwood anyway)
“Haven’t you ever loved anyone” honey, sweetheart do you want to know the answer to that? Do you know how long he’s been around? What do you think the answer is?
Jack could have been thinking of Rose at the Canary Wharf battle cuz at this point he thinks she died there cuz of the Cybermen... hence why he hates them so much.
Ianto abuses the word love, for he has no heart of his own. Pointing a gun at his teamamtes, sacrificing the safety of the entire universe. What about all those that loved the pizza girl and the japanese doctor. I guess they are just collateral damage that can go unnoticed and uncared for. Ianto is a maggot. Quite frankly I dont understand how hes still on the team, I could never trust him ever again, pure selfish monster is all he is.
Theres no reason for jack to even keep on the team, other than as a future boyfriend. He already stated that they dint ianto needed for things like coffee, or cleaning torchwood. Hes not a technician/scientist like tosh is, or OWEn or martha who have MDs and are research scientist, and gwen is slighltly more believable as she has LEO training, and probably investigative abilities. The only he was in Torchwood in the first place was yvonne before the battle at canary wharf, as a personal assitant to her,Audiobook covered this. Ianto mirror Donna noble from DW in many ways, where shes is hired as a personal assistant secretary, but otherwise her life is no exceptional enough to have better career path. of courses as the series progressed ianto becomes more important for the team. Personally i believe martha would be a better successor to owen, but her actor had other commitmments.
First of all, if we're talking about training, Ianto was definitely not worse than Gwen (he worked in Torchwood London, remember?). Obviously, it wasn't like no one could replace him, but, really, I think Gwen was at least the same "useless" (not literally, but in the meaning of level of training) if not more. But the thing is that it seemed more important for Jack what kind of person his teammates were. And actually I can understand why Jack kept Ianto. Yes, he did try to hide a Cyberwoman which was extremely dangerous. But it is really understandable. He was desperate, he had nothing except Lisa since his life had been ruined in Canary-Warf, and he tried to save the one he loved. It wasn't like he wanted to betray Torchwood for something, it was that he had no choice, because Torchwood was the only way to save Lisa, but if he had told anyone, they would have probably killed her. And I think, there was one more reason why Jack decided to keep him: Jack (as all of them) felt guilt for the fact he didn't notice, didn't care. Ianto totally fucked up, that's true, but didn't they? Saying that Jack just wanted Ianto as his boyfriend is ridiculous. In that moment it's obvious he didn't, he hated him for hiding Lisa. However, he gave him a second chance. And it worked quite well, didn't it? And the last thing I want to say. Literally every member of team fucked up at least for once. Owen with the Weevel, the Rift and (for god's sake!) shooting Jack, Tosh with Mary, Gwen with sex-alien and Billis... They all should have been fired. But they were not. That's how Jack saw it. Same thing with Ianto. (Sorry if there are any mistakes, I'm not a native speaker, hope you got my idea)
@@elly_hermione he should never have had a second chance to destroy mankind. Which he almost did when he shot owen. Man this guy is a trip, shooting team mates, threatning the universe and all. But who cares about facts, we need to only care about feelings. I would rather befreind the dalaks , atleast i know they want to kill me, atleast they control thier feelings. Atleast they dont shoot teamates.
@@rlelinney4646 wait-wait. How did Ianto have a chance to "destroy mankind" when he shot Owen? It was Owen who had this chance and he almost did destroy the mankind by opening the Rift. Ianto was trying to stop him from doing it. Moreover, I see it as a character growth. When there was Lisa, between Lisa and the whole world he chose Lisa. When it was Jack and Tosh in 40s, between Jack and the world he chose the world. Because opening the Rift was a huge danger, it was only luck that Owen's actions didn't cause the end of the Earth and the Universe itself. Yes, Owen wanted to bring Jack and Tosh (and Diana, btw) back, but it is actually absolutely the same thing as with Ianto and Lisa. Both of them almost destroy the world for the people they loved. And in the situation with the Rift I really believe Ianto did good. He learnt his lesson, the world is more important than one person. And again, Owen shot his teammate (more than that, his boss), and he shot him dead. He shot him dead when he didn't know Jack was immortal and, holy crap, he was a doctor. Doctors are usually supposed to save people, not kill them. Why you don't hate him when he did absolutely the same as Ianto? Really, why should we care about facts when we can care only about hate.
@@elly_hermione owen was driven by a different emotion, guilt, and thats why i treat it differently. but im not argueing here, we both are entitled to our feelings of Ianto. Love must be tempered with strong virtues or it is destructive and bad. Ianto embraced the wrong side of love , I would not ever want someone to do anything for me, I want them to do what is right. Thanks for your insight. You write quite well.
Love how Owen just looks so bored during Ianto’s sob story.
Who wouldn’t be, lol.
I mean Owen knows that she’s already dead so there was no point for a sob story
@@QuokkaCore I was too busy laughing at the episode
What if, the reason Jack is so pissed not just because he knows what the Cyberman will do in the future, but also because he has a deep personal hatred of them, as at this point, he’d think that Rose would’ve died during the battle of canary wharf
Exactly...Jack is one of the doctors most trusted allies, and he knows what has to be done. Call it inhumane but that’s what the doctor is sometimes, Let’s say if Lisa (cyberwoman) upgraded that Asian doctor, that’s a fully upgraded cyberman inside torchwood base, then it would lead to Ianto and then to the team and before you know it’s spreading across Wales to the uk and ultimately to the world. Jack does not take chances and he’s only doing what needs to be done, and in roses case that’s a very good point cos in The Utopia episode in doctor who he mentions that he thought rose died during the battle of Canary warf so it’s fully possible that’s why he’s much more intense this time around.
Jack is also from the future around the time the Cyber Wars are going on I believe.
True and Jacks face when Ianto asked him if he ever loved anyone
@@craycray8098 No, the cyber-wars is in the 24 century. And Jack is from 51 century.
@@thehorrorcounselors4747 Also at the same time Jack is immortal, however if he could be converted that would create a fully functioning, immortal and indestructible Cyberman. Whether he could be converted or not is unknown, to us and to him, however I doubt he wants to take the chance to find out.
For some reason,this makes me remember the cyberwoman-bride - when she says that the groom shouldn’t see her. Broke my heart...
Yeah I remember that
Cold.....so cold.
Yvonne Hartley: fiiirrrsst tiimmee.
*Ianto:* You can't know that for sure.
*Jack:* Uh ya I do, I know their enemy.
Also, quite possibly lived through it back in the 51st. Course this team doesn't (yet) know anything about him in this episode - only Gwen knows he doesn't stay dead and she doesn't understand it yet.
I just rewatched the series and was VERY surprised to realize that Ciberwoman was episode 4 of series 1
0:39-0:50 this statement from Ianto really shows the prospective of how he feels just being their cleaner and feeling unimportant to the group, very powerful stuff and great acting from Gareth David-Lloyd (Ianto)
I love how this also sets up a subversion in the same episode. Like there’s no moment “we never did ask him..we did take him for granted,” like you’d get on any other show, no way. They just leave him still to clear their shit up no questions asked. XD
its a great piece of accidental foreshadowing where jack mentions that they assimilate entire planets, up until nightmare in silver we had only seen cybermen (in the revival anyway) limited to earth, and even then they struggled to survive a resistance by humans
I wasn't ready for this to show on my feed
Ianto's girlfriend presumably comes before Ianto and Jack's affair. That mean's in Ianto's origin story, he is flirting with Jack while hiding her cyberman girlfriend in new Torchwood? I have always wondered about that... or have I remembered incorrectly?
No it's right and it's why I love Ianto's character-hes morally grey too in the same way Jack is.
This is episode 4 series 1, so not a lot of time to flirt yet (and not a lot of it in this episode...). Also it's really really hard for humans to accurately clock flirting vs. banter. But no matter how you square it, I'd say Ianto took advantage of Jack's flirtations to disguise his real feelings/intentions. After all, he's clearly Not Happy with Torchwood in this clip because of what happened to Lisa yet he lied about it for months.
The audio dramas confirm the flirting happened before They Keep Killing Suzie but before was merely banter. They weren't close until said audio drama as Jack mentions.
@@nytesla_punk3327 Ah, I've never heard the audios, and I've only read a handful of the books. I'm sticking with the TV canon until I can get a hold of the rest.
@@Tamashi88 you can find some on youtube or get the transcripts. I personally consider the audios canon unless someone says otherwise (for Torchwood anyway)
aaaaand there goes my feelings
This aged like a fine wine
right in the feels
I love how they worked the Cyberman Motif into the background music
good video it so good and so love
“Haven’t you ever loved anyone” honey, sweetheart do you want to know the answer to that? Do you know how long he’s been around? What do you think the answer is?
Jack could have been thinking of Rose at the Canary Wharf battle cuz at this point he thinks she died there cuz of the Cybermen... hence why he hates them so much.
Honestly he probably fought in the cyberwars as well so probably met you know, "excellent".
hey can someone explain please?
Well Ianto hid his girlfriend who was half turned into a cyberman in the basement of the Torchwood Three Hub and now the rest of the team found out
@@_hollowsky there's no need to be rude, maybe he just want to know more before decide if watch the show or not.
@@_hollowsky no need to be so rude
Wow he's talking like a 14 year old girl.
He's talking like a 14-year-old boy, I would say.
Ianto abuses the word love, for he has no heart of his own. Pointing a gun at his teamamtes, sacrificing the safety of the entire universe. What about all those that loved the pizza girl and the japanese doctor. I guess they are just collateral damage that can go unnoticed and uncared for. Ianto is a maggot. Quite frankly I dont understand how hes still on the team, I could never trust him ever again, pure selfish monster is all he is.
Theres no reason for jack to even keep on the team, other than as a future boyfriend. He already stated that they dint ianto needed for things like coffee, or cleaning torchwood. Hes not a technician/scientist like tosh is, or OWEn or martha who have MDs and are research scientist, and gwen is slighltly more believable as she has LEO training, and probably investigative abilities. The only he was in Torchwood in the first place was yvonne before the battle at canary wharf, as a personal assitant to her,Audiobook covered this.
Ianto mirror Donna noble from DW in many ways, where shes is hired as a personal assistant secretary, but otherwise her life is no exceptional enough to have better career path.
of courses as the series progressed ianto becomes more important for the team.
Personally i believe martha would be a better successor to owen, but her actor had other commitmments.
First of all, if we're talking about training, Ianto was definitely not worse than Gwen (he worked in Torchwood London, remember?). Obviously, it wasn't like no one could replace him, but, really, I think Gwen was at least the same "useless" (not literally, but in the meaning of level of training) if not more.
But the thing is that it seemed more important for Jack what kind of person his teammates were. And actually I can understand why Jack kept Ianto. Yes, he did try to hide a Cyberwoman which was extremely dangerous. But it is really understandable. He was desperate, he had nothing except Lisa since his life had been ruined in Canary-Warf, and he tried to save the one he loved. It wasn't like he wanted to betray Torchwood for something, it was that he had no choice, because Torchwood was the only way to save Lisa, but if he had told anyone, they would have probably killed her. And I think, there was one more reason why Jack decided to keep him: Jack (as all of them) felt guilt for the fact he didn't notice, didn't care. Ianto totally fucked up, that's true, but didn't they?
Saying that Jack just wanted Ianto as his boyfriend is ridiculous. In that moment it's obvious he didn't, he hated him for hiding Lisa. However, he gave him a second chance. And it worked quite well, didn't it?
And the last thing I want to say. Literally every member of team fucked up at least for once. Owen with the Weevel, the Rift and (for god's sake!) shooting Jack, Tosh with Mary, Gwen with sex-alien and Billis... They all should have been fired. But they were not. That's how Jack saw it. Same thing with Ianto.
(Sorry if there are any mistakes, I'm not a native speaker, hope you got my idea)
@@elly_hermione he should never have had a second chance to destroy mankind. Which he almost did when he shot owen. Man this guy is a trip, shooting team mates, threatning the universe and all. But who cares about facts, we need to only care about feelings. I would rather befreind the dalaks , atleast i know they want to kill me, atleast they control thier feelings. Atleast they dont shoot teamates.
@@rlelinney4646 wait-wait. How did Ianto have a chance to "destroy mankind" when he shot Owen? It was Owen who had this chance and he almost did destroy the mankind by opening the Rift. Ianto was trying to stop him from doing it. Moreover, I see it as a character growth. When there was Lisa, between Lisa and the whole world he chose Lisa. When it was Jack and Tosh in 40s, between Jack and the world he chose the world. Because opening the Rift was a huge danger, it was only luck that Owen's actions didn't cause the end of the Earth and the Universe itself. Yes, Owen wanted to bring Jack and Tosh (and Diana, btw) back, but it is actually absolutely the same thing as with Ianto and Lisa. Both of them almost destroy the world for the people they loved. And in the situation with the Rift I really believe Ianto did good. He learnt his lesson, the world is more important than one person.
And again, Owen shot his teammate (more than that, his boss), and he shot him dead. He shot him dead when he didn't know Jack was immortal and, holy crap, he was a doctor. Doctors are usually supposed to save people, not kill them. Why you don't hate him when he did absolutely the same as Ianto?
Really, why should we care about facts when we can care only about hate.
@@elly_hermione owen was driven by a different emotion, guilt, and thats why i treat it differently. but im not argueing here, we both are entitled to our feelings of Ianto.
Love must be tempered with strong virtues or it is destructive and bad. Ianto embraced the wrong side of love , I would not ever want someone to do anything for me, I want them to do what is right.
Thanks for your insight. You write quite well.