Is Chopin JAZZ?!
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
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I've always felt that Chopin's Mazurka Op. 17 No. 4 was very much on the lounge jazz spectrum. He was ahead of his time.
Agreed. He was ahead of his time. One can feel his posthumous op. 45 prelude anticipate impressionism.
There's actually a big band arrangement of the piece by Peter Beets.
You are so right.
For some reason I don't really like the term "he was ahead of his time". The truth is he WAS of his time, and saying the opposite seems to devaluate people who existed back when.
thanks awfully
A very important part of the jazz aesthetic is phrasing. If you took the line where you were talking about enclosures and phrased them into swing eighths like Charlie Parker, it would really sound like jazz.
Swing eights + the proper stresses
sounds like jazz but the most important thing in jazz is improvisation in my opnion so idk
idk if is really jazz or only sounds like
@@sardinha7917That’s Quite Literally what I’m saying & what she showed. Chopin’s Compositions ARE MOSTLY Improvisation - And, Improvisation’s In the Jazz style.
I agree, all "jazz" really is at the end of the day is phrasing. You can even forget the swing eights and play it all straight, jazz is really just about the form. You will get a lot more mileage just playing diatonically over a ii V I with no focus on anything other than phrasing, than you will trying to target all the chord tones and play "jazz".
Chopin's rhytmic basis is Polish folk music, so no wonder it was different than Western European musicians' vibe.
alright you've convinced me, it's finally time for me to learn that b-flat minor prelude
Repent and trust in Jesus. We all deserve Hell for our sins, such as lying lusting coveting and more. We can't save ourselves, but Jesus can save us. He died on the cross to save us for our sins and rose from the grave defeating death and Hell. You must put your faith in him only. He is the only way to Heaven. Repent and trust in Jesus.
Romans 6:23
John 3:16❤😊❤
@@lowlightpiano7110 will Jesus help me with piano?
Nah, hail Satan
@@asloii_1749 ?
Playing the simple or "expected" notes/feel followed by what jazz offers is a really good way to introduce people to jazz. I learned so much every time that happened during this video.
Exactly!!
What I think is important to remember is that most jazz standards are coming from popular songs that people did know the melodies to at the time they were chosen. So that aspect of knowing what to expect and then hearing how it has been altered is central to jazz. Nowadays most of these songs are better known as jazz songs, but it is certainly profoundly useful to also listen to versions that hew closely to the melody.
J-pop was my introduction to jazz after listening only to classical and orchestral film score music for the first 24 years of my life. I could not get into jazz earlier as it sounded "super messed up" and discomforting to my ears back then.
I've been a huge jazz fan for over a decade now. But my absolute favorite music nowadays is trance. I'm a f***ing junkie for those ravy supersaws and trance arpeggios.
@@Jason75913Wow, you’ve had quite the musical genre journey.
I don’t hear too many jazz interpretations of Beethoven or Mozart, but Chopin and Bach seem to naturally translate.
I so appreciate the outstanding musicians that you invite to share with us, Nahre. Personally, I am not educated in music theory but love to hear from others who have such fluency and passion. Thank you both. 💕
You know music isn't a about the theory, that's a language and it helps us to quickly get the possible next chord and note when we don't know the song, but music is something you feel. If you are like that, excellent! Music is something that doesn't exist in nature as such, it's something very human. 🖖
If you haven’t heard Art Tatum play Chopin, you should. I’ve always called Chopin pre-jazz. He was ahead of his time by almost a century.
I can’t even finish watching this completely before posting how much I love this one. The pairing of Sol-ful fun and musical insight with the elite squeezebox playing and high octane energy of Cory (Bruce Springsteen) Pasaturo is perfect. Loved the beautiful video production values and glimpses of the Elbphilharmonie as well. ❤🎹🎶
I’ll take that compliment haha
Awesome lesson! Chopin's verbiage in his music is so colorful.
Absolutely loved your Chopin-jazz presentation. Many years ago when i was studying at the Jerusalem academy of music, my harmony class professor pointed out how jazz-like Chopin's Mazurka op. 17 no.4 in A minor is. Your video expands on this beautifully. Love what you do.
I feel another huge ingredient that isn't being explicitly mentioned and should is the Blues. The Blues goes outside traditional Western harmony and melodies, which not only include chromatism but also microtonality. Not things usually found in keyboard-like instruments, but for sure part of the tradition of jazz found in voice, wind instruments, string instruments.
You've worded this badly you make it sound as if you are saying that it is Western Harmony that includes chromaticism and microtonality which is in fact true. Blues doesn't really include microtonality. Not as a feature of its style
@@Philrcthe “blue” note in scale is microtonal. Slightly more flat than a usual tritone/minor third
Yes the blues is a major omission for sure. No disrespect
@@aaaaaaaaaa22877ueh? It's a much smaller interval than the minor 3rd or specially the Tritone which is a b5th interval.
You seem to think the minor third and a Tritone are the same interval they are not.
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
It is just a bent note. Bent for expressive purposes. It could be bent up a whole semitone it certainly doesn't constitute microtonality.
@@Philrc i meant scale degrees not actually bending it ofc😭this is why I don’t comment
I've been saying this for years, such a great confirmation from Nahre Sol. Thank you!
Bach was the real OG shredding 4 voice counterpoint on the church organ. I think we forget as classical musicians that music is always improvised/played prior to being written down
Yes, but Bach did not nearly have this kind of complexity or was This close on the line creation.
The first thought i had was "he improvises a lot over those forms, and then he tries to write what he remembers". Those lines really sound like they come from someone that plays them a bunch.
I’m not very familiar with classical music. About 5 years ago I heard Chopin for the first time and I was blown away. I didn’t know they did music like that back then. It sounded very modern to me.
As usual I come away feeling better informed and in awe of the skill, breadth of knowledge and ability of Nahre (and Cory in this instance) to make these insights accessible to ordinary mortals.
Always enjoy these videos Nahre! Thank you two for this analysis! I’ve always felt this aspect of Chopin’s work and I love hearing more about it!
Great stuff. I was aware of Chopin's use of chromaticism but wasn't aware that he was using Parkeresque enclosures. Kurt Rosenwinkel and Jean-Paul Brodbeck recently released an album named The Chopin Project, which consists of Chopin tunes played by contemporary jazzers.
Love your videos. Your playing is beautiful to watch and to hear. Thank you for sharing your insights and your gifts with us.
loved this, immediately searched for Satie jazz and found another of your videos. thank you for your offerings! awesome.
I think European folk music is a big and underrated influence on jazz as well
Just strarted really digging into jazz piano and it was fascinating to see this bond with classical once again, thank you so much Nahre!
Absolutely love such videos!!
loved this video! Jazz, Chopin and this crazy looking accordion, thank you Nahre :D
@CPez is very articulate and makes coherent points. Nahre as always brilliant playing, a very well done video and discussion, and great musical examples. I will be sharing this widely. A totally important point. Kurt Rosenwinkel’s recent Chopin Project is one of my favorite adaptations of some of the rep
Have Dan Tepfer on to discuss Bach’s relationship to jazz! Cheers y’all
Simply incredible! Congratulations! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Such insightful content w/ that fun Nahre flare!
Fascinating! Jazz is my favourite and I love your clarifications featuring Chopin, also a favourite.
What a fun take! I saw a clip of this elsewhere on the internet. So pleased to hear it expounded upon 🎉
Hi Nahre Sol, I'm subscribed to your channel the past few months and I just wanted to leave a comment to say I finished your Elements of Music today and I was delighted to have read it, I myself am an intermediary musician but I found your way of explaining music theory both comprehensive and concise and loved your addition of definitions in the glossary at the end of the book. It has really honed in my understanding of Music Theory and I just wanted to say thank you, to anyone reading this comment it's available on Nahre Sol's website and I would highly recommend it to Beginners and Intermediaries alike!
Two of my favorite musicians, duking it out, er, discussing an interesting point about music. More! Give us more....
I enjoy your insightful musical stories greatly. Thank you!
Great video! I can recall hearing the Berceuse on the radio driving around one afternoon and was really struck by it, not just it's exotic textures, but the form of it. The way it hangs on the one chord over an ositnato bass line while the melody floats over it exploring all these permutations of ideas. It immediately made me think of Trane on something like Flamenco Sketches or Naima, or maybe McCoy's more melodic explorations over an ostinato. The piece builds this beautiful tension hanging on that one chord that doesn't resolve until the very end when Chopin finally "lands on the I" and then he has the nerve of flatting the 7th on the final flourish. I was floored. Never heard anything like it in Classical music before, other than maybe Satie. Beautiful piece. Apparently that minor 7th in the last gasp was quite controversial in some circles, but you know Art, Monk, Bill, Herbie, Duke, Barry et al. all heard that note and nodded their heads. Chopin rocks!
Ubsolutely right!!
My favorite musician...❤
Great video, you are amazing! I think Chopin was as much a jazz-man as it was possible in his time. I can't imagine what he would compose today!
I am convinced! Thanks, Nahre - I enjoyed that.
WOW... MINDBLOWING... I've never thought of that... in that way... it's a moment of CARTHASIS... THANKS NAHRE and CORY PESATURO...
Love that you touched on this topic. The first time I heard Berceuse, I immediately thought that was one of the most jazzy things I ever heard in classical music ( leaving out,, of course, everything that came after Chopin).
Yes. The right hand just takes off in an improvised manner. The melodic lines of his F minor concerto also have that sense of free flow.
I've thought this for a long time!! Thanks for putting this together. Jazz is so visionary, and so was Chopin introducing chromaticism in his day. Needed those notes to express. ❤
I just discovered your channel today, and am absolutely loving it (got brought in from a few shorts). Chopin has been my favorite composer for quite some time, but I have also always immensely enjoyed jazz despite having minimal education in it compared to classical theory and composers. This comparison is is interesting to me, and I’m sure in large part why I enjoy Chopin so much. Beautiful playing, explanations, and editing. Keep up the awesome work!
Hat off! Respect to both of you!!!
Videos like this are my favourite!
Charlie Parker and other jazzers knew their classical. In fact early "Jazz muscians" viewed what they were doing as their own African American classical (hence the sharp dressing), and "Jazz" was in fact an offensive pejorative term.
Wow what an insightful video - I grew up playing so many of these pieces on piano and having recently ventured into jazz, you've pointed out more similarities than I could've ever imagined!
Thanks so much to both of you for this video. I think that, trained ear or not, people feel especially good about their appreciation of music when a performer can help them ratchet up and hear those jazz and classical kinships.
Wonderful video! I always felt about some Chopin's music as "jazzy", but it's crazy how close he is to jazz in some pieces. Especially the lines in his music that sound straight up improvised, amazing!
Yup. The lines of his F minor concerto are just one example of that.
I truly love you both, you inspire my daily music!
i cried when it finished
I've always thought that Chopin is definitely a lot jazz, indeed as a jazz lover that's why he's my favourite classical pianist. Mine was just an intuition, yours is a such good and deep analysis. I always love your playing and your videos and this is a true pearl, thank you!
Superb vid! You guys are monsters!
I've played Chopin for years and only recently came to this same conclusion after learning about jazz harmony. Love your channel Nahre!
As always, fantastic work. Najee’s personality and communication style is very appealing and succinct. (Sometimes too brief; but those in the know get that there is only so much time in the day.)
This topic and video is fun and somewhat overdue. Cory Pasaturo is a beast! I do feel though that more exploration is needed in the rhythm category, especially with regard to swing feel. A correlation between basso continuo and swing-feel “jazz” should also be explored and included. Perhaps follow-up videos are warranted. (?)
Super interesting video! “Jazzer” I believe is a term exclusively used by classical musicians haha. Reminds of using the word “legit” for classical musicians who don’t play jazz
You've convinced me! I'm a music teacher and I'll be showing this vid to at least one of my students who is currently working on the Eb Major Nocturne.
I've lived 66 years and never saw someone play an accordion with such proficiency. That was amazing to hear!
By the way, I'm the only person I know that buys and enjoys listening to both jazz and classical music. It a pretty lonely place to be. I can't share my enthusiasm for those forms of music work anyone else.
I also never had formal music theory training, but understand some of it in general terms. Your videos are mostly over my head but I love watching them. Seeing young people with so much love and talent for music fills my heart with joy. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Miller! @CPez
It's a shame that you haven't met other people who love both genres before. I've found that it's not uncommon for classical musicians to love jazz. E.g. in my university orchestra, I met lots of people who shared my love of jazz, and we introduced each other to lots of great jazz albums. Quite a few of them could also play jazz well, and some were in the university big band.
Do you play an instrument, or have you ever considered learning to play one? Even at an amateur level, playing with other people is one of the most joyful ways of expressing your love of music with other people who love it.
Hm.. I listen to both. I listen to a wide range of music, much more now than when I was younger (what I listen to has steadily increased over the years). What I've been doing is that whenever I feel that things are getting boring or repetitive and I lose interest, I take some time to listen to jazz again... I find that in jazz you can find _everything_ and my mind gets refreshed and unstuck (and as I also play music, as an amateur, I get out of the rut).
omg what a nice input and analisys
What a great educator you are! : )
I find it very interesting how Charlie Parker even stated himself that he practiced classical exercises for saxophones when he was practicing and developing his style. Paul Desmond also practiced it as well. I think it was the Klose book, 25 daily exercises for the saxophone.
This is great stuff. I first stumbled ino this when I realized that Jobim's "How Insensitive" was borrowed from Chopin's E minor prelude.
@nahre you are amazing. Thanks.
This is both eye opening and ear opening! Perhaps he was a time traveling jazz musician from the future who wrote down his solos over the contemporary 'romantic' style.
Nice Cordovox!
Not Cordovox, but that Was the guest electric accordion yes. Late 1950’s.
@@CPez Ah! Thank you for the enlightenment. I am in awe of your musicianship, as I am of Nahre's. The ability to 'hear past the notes' is a gift. Thank you for sharing it with us!
Chopin encrypted jazz in the waltz. 😉
You made me start listening to Chopin in a whole different way!
I love it when you play other genres. Like when you did the bebop digested by a classical musician video.
Great video
More blessings
Thank you have a blessed day and be blessed
How beautiful that he introduces his dotted quarter note into her immaculate calderon and with slowing down prior to the climax full of sixteenth notes in a veryFFF finale.
Fascinating. I watched that Barry Harris video where I think he even straight out said Chopin was a jazz musician but I never Heard it in all of his music! There’s a young pianist on UA-cam who plays Giant Steps as a Chopin waltz too! You young people are giving the classics new life. 🍀
That's so awesome!
was validating to see this come up in my feed lol i felt like a crazy person
Chopin is my favorite classical composer and this analysis is amazing you guys are awesome
I learned the C major prelude over the last few weeks, and although I've carefully listened to it for many years, it wasn't until I played it that I realized just how much jazz harmony and progressions are in that short little thing!
I often wonder did Chopin and people playing Chopin at the time play it much more loosely so that if you heard it now you would really hear the improvisation. And that many of the played pieces had more notes and runs than what was written, which itself would be the "standard". A lot of Chopin's pieces aren't played in the same tempo as written and it's almost like they have a life of their own.
You are missing an easy book opportunity right there, "Nahre Sol's Chromatic Soul"... you're welcome lol
now i understand a little better why i like chopin as much as i do
hehe Awesome! been waiting on this video! 😁
Nahre is amazing !😎
Love this video
Such an amazing video
Thank you for the great content. That was very interesting. I've always thought of Chopin as soul music. 😊
Loved the video! ❤
Sometimes I’ve listened to Chopin and in my head I was like “that sounds kinda jazzy” glad im not the only one!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🎹 *Introduction to Chopin's Jazz Potential*
- Exploring the idea that Chopin's music has similarities to Jazz,
- Mention of four categories to be examined: Lines, Harmony, Rhythm, and Form.
00:43 🎵 *Lines: Connecting Chopin's Preludes to Jazz Improvisation*
- Breakdown of Chopin's Prelude as similar to a jazz solo,
- Analysis of note groupings, enclosures, and chromatic pockets in Chopin's style.
02:23 🎺 *Bbop Influence: Jazz's Playful Approach*
- Explanation of the playful elements in Bebop (Bbop),
- Emphasizing the importance of playing with timing, non-chord tones, and creating anticipation.
03:00 🎶 *Nocturne in E flat: Harmonic Similarities to Jazz*
- Demonstration of how Chopin's Nocturne in E flat shares harmonic features with Jazz,
- Discussion on clear and obvious chord changes resembling jazz standards.
05:34 🎷 *Half-Diminished Scale: Jazz Harmonic Element in Chopin*
- Recognition of Chopin's use of the half-diminished scale, common in Bebop improvisation,
- Reference to Barry Harris highlighting the jazz elements in Chopin's Prelude in F minor.
06:31 ⏰ *Rhythm Exploration: Chopin's Liberality with Timing*
- Discussion on Chopin's rhythmic innovation in the Nocturne in Bb minor,
- Comparison of odd-numbered rhythms in Chopin's work to the flexibility in Jazz timing.
07:52 🥁 *Percussion and Form: The Missing Elements in Chopin's Jazz*
- Acknowledgment of Chopin's proximity to Jazz, but highlighting the absence of percussion,
- Emphasis on constant quarter note baseline and percussion as crucial jazz elements.
08:18 🔄 *Theme and Variations: Commonality in Chopin and Jazz*
- Recognition of theme and variations as a key aspect of Chopin's music and Jazz,
- Comparison of individual expressions in Jazz improvisation to Chopin's varied motifs.
09:32 🤔 *Audience Engagement: Is Chopin Jazz?*
- Opening the question to the audience on whether they consider Chopin's music to be Jazz,
- Gratitude to patrons and promotion of the creator's book "Elements of Music."
Made with HARPA AI
Nahre, when you show the "Half-diminihsed scale" on the screen, you are actually showing a "diminished scale" AKA "octatonic scale". Barry Harris is talking about a varriation on the bebop scale that fits in his system.
Yes Exactly. It was an unfortunate small error.
Been playing Chopin a lot lately and in trying to improvise past or through a piece- I fall into jazz, and have thought this too- true true true.
Great video with wonderful insight. A lot of this could apply to Liszt as well.
That's crazy, so true ! I'm Corrently learning "Impromptu Fantasia," a very jazzy peice by chopin. I just thought of this topic myself
Jazz is my favorite genre, with romantic/classical being a close second and hip hop being the third. There are many musical relations between all three, which is most apparent in the groove (or rhythm). The second half of Chopin's third Ballade in A-flat major for example has a bounce to it that feels natural to bop to. I feel the same with the main theme of Sorcerer's Apprentice by Dukas.
Chopin is jazz-able.
Fabulous. The comparison of Chopin and jazz illuminates both.
It would be really cool to hear what Chopin improvised on the spot. And what he would have written if one could have played him some records of Art Tatum, Thelonius Monk or Bill Evans.
I think of it All there time. Except he WOULD HAVE BEEN Art Tatum or the others. And if he wasn’t the first, and heard others, he would have created incredible things as well.
Awesome analysis as usual. To me his butterfly étude, especially the left hand line, clearly makes the bridge between classical and ragtime/stride and other early jazz forms. Just 60 years in advance
5:32 That's the half/whole diminished scale, as it starts with a half-step whole-step pattern. No such thing as a half-diminished scale, although there is a half-diminished chord. Good video.
If somebody said to me, play a half diminished scale, I’d give them Locrian mode😉
You could argue that the 6th mode of harmonic minor is the half-diminished scale
I think you mean the sixth mode of the melodic minor. The sixth mode of the harmonic minor is not associated with the half-diminished chord (It's way off). The sixth mode of the melodic minor is commonly referred to as Locrian #2. Both the Locrian and Locrian #2 are associated with the half-diminished chord, so it's a stretch to label one particular scale as the "half-diminished scale." @@Chava_104
@@gspotjazz u right big dog. I meant melodic minor not harmonic. I was taught in school that the 6th mode was the “half-dim scale”
It was a mistake, as she meant to put the Diminished Scale. He uses it Big time in a measure in the big Allegro piece.
Must be a reason why I always loved music of Chopin & Litz (spell check ) …
Just the way he embellishes his Melodies .
Of course! Great job as always......
I personally released my album Jazz in Chopin in 2003 so I'm very well aware of what you're talking about! All of your examples are of course right.. I also agree that he just needed a rythm section some time like prelude 15... There's also a feeling in polish music named "jal" if I remember right which is kind of blues feel like ...
Anyway the real difficulty I had was to recreate a journey starting from the melodies and harmonies because I absolutely didn't want to put some swing and that's it...
So thanks again for your work and put this debate on YY !
I LOVE your album! Listened to some of it yesterday
Awesome video! Chopin is totally jazz! I swing some of his tunes too with a bass player its so fun! 🤓🙆♂
I wish someone would compile a list of jazz adjacent classical pieces. I hear the connections but I have no idea what to look for. Great video as always
ANY Chopin works honestly. I found over 100 examples in his music for the preparation of this video.
Look into Kapustin, might take a while to appreciate his style (it did for me) but it’s the cleanest classical & Jazz hybrid I know. I’ve also seen some of Scriabin’s works described as proto-jazz. If you look up “Scriabin jazz” on google you’ll find stuff
That's why Leszek Możdżer done his famous record Impressions On Chopin
Lovely video
Awesome!!!!
Of course it is! Many important jazz players have improvised over classical pieces like Art Tatum or Erroll Garner (just go listen how he can improvise flawless over a Chopin waltz) I think when you have both schools your understanding it's beyond any music barrier like Andre Previn did. I feel glad I can understand both worlds perfectly, it's an amazing pleasure.