Volleyball Rules | What's Legal (and What Isn't) with Hand Setting?
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
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No hand set is legal according to 99% of the people at the complex I play at.......
hahahaha!
Yeah everyone I know near me (even those who have played professionally/at amateur level for sand) think that one hand behind the other is the only way
Lmao.
@@kyleruiz6196 Omg same, I just started playing with this group and they all say it's not allowed and you you have to use a knuckle or keep hands together even though Id be way more precise the standard way.
@@betteratbeachvolleyball Knowing the rules is the easy part. Can we get a video on how to argue with people that a move was in fact legal?
As a referee at all levels (FIVB, AVP, USAV, Volleyball Canada, CEV and AVC) for the past 20-ish years its nice to find a video that covers everything. It was nice meeting you Mark FIVB Qatar event a few years back. Keep up the great work. Only thing I'd change is the usage of the word "lift". That word was drop a while ago for "catch and or throw" in the rule book. You cannot find "life" in the rulebook anymore. As you know even the quickest sets when you use a high speed camera are lifted off the pads of the fingers, hence the change. Btw, the serve is not considered an attack-hit.
Thanks Christopher!! I'd love if you would join our Facebook group! We have sooo many players looking for answers and better explanations than I could give. It's.called VolleyChat of you ever want to check it out. I appreciate your commentary!
I’m calling it now... This will be Better at Beach’s most watched video of all time andddd.... This is going to upset soooo many players that use old rules
would LOVE that!
@Kristian Plummer ... I'd challenge you to find where it EVER was different because I've played for nearly 30 years and the rules were always written this way ... people just chose to interpret it differently by saying "any side rotation is a double" and "more than one and a half forward rotation is a throw" and of course "if the ball goes below your chin, it's a carry". Those "rules" were always BS but they were so widely accepted and adopted as "truth" that rarely anyone looked them up to verify them.
Failed prediction.
@@Polimuniit’s his 3rd most viewed video and people argued to no end in the comments 🤡
Thanks for adding the timestamps. They will come in handy in the future. Keep up the good work guys!
🔥 💪 🏐 Check out the Complete Player Program & Learn How To Hand Set in Just 30 Days! www.betteratbeach.com/VirtualTraining-YTPC
Thanks very much! I’ve been looking for a video like this that explains everything!
I live in Canada, and I've run more beach tournaments over the years that I could count.
After watching this video I'd say that all of the rules discussed were accurate.
When I run tournaments, these are the exact rules I would enforce.
Two things to note;
1) The FIVB, the AVP, and the USVA all have slightly different versions of some rules, and how to apply them. So some rules could differ slightly depending on where you live.
2) The FIVB create rules with the intention that there will be a ref to enforce them.
So if you play in a league or tournament where there are no refs, then you have to nail down and clarify some rules just to do away with the judgement factor.
ive never clicked on a vid so fast LOL im omw to a practice rn
Yeah I was just googling this question lol
Yeah, I just read the double and illegal to legal and I clicked
1000% Hear people miss call these in open plays ALL THE TIME! Love this video
I need to have this video up and ready to go at my league games. This confirms no one (including me) really understands all of the rules lol.
I just said this to Patrick as well, but I'll just copy and paste it..... You should!!! I We could also do a private training webinar specifically for the people in your town/facility. To do that, we need to be put in contact with the court/league/facility/tournament director. If you know them personally and think that might be cool, to do a 2 hour online training with a big question and answer session for just your people, send an email to support@betteratbeach.com and make sure you add the Director to the email with an introduction to us! We could make it happen! or of course, if you'd rather just beat everyone in your town you could sign up for our Online Coaching Program on your own. hehehehe :) ...... but seriously.. www.betteratbeach.com
this is extremely useful vid!
would be nice to see next vid about the history of changes (with years) for the most arguble hand setting rules
Thank you for this guide! I started playing volleyball back in the 90s in sand but no one place or group ever played by the same rules. It's been difficult as the game has grown and youth competition has increased to find good explanations and examples of what is legal and what is not according to the USAV rules and this covers them well. One of the most comprehensive and understandable guides I could find. Definitely going to share with my athletes that play indoor that just started to play beach these last couple of seasons as this wonderful game grows!
The last section concerning 'hard driven ball' is unfortunately wrong. Please read FIVB (International Volleyball Association) Official Beach Volleyball Rules paragraphs 9.2.2.2 and 9.2.2.4
This is super helpful, thanks!
Excellently thorough ! Covered every Q i had!
yippeeee!!! thanks!
Amazing video, thanks so much
This was a good video. Thanks
Thank you. Very informative
My beach league starts next week! Thanks for this video- been looking all over, so many disagreements, I am most certainly using this video as a resource haha.
You're welcome! If you want to dominate that beach league you should join our coaching program. www.betteratbeach.com/coaching
Amazing!
thanks for putting all these explanations in one place!
any time Sandra!
Great video, thank you for posting - FIVB rules seem to be intentionally vague on this subject, so this video was quite helpful to decipher them.
glad we could help!!! If you ever want a REAL deep dive, you should check out our coaching program betteratbeach.com/store
This is a great guideline for players and referees! Thanks for making this.
nice video finally clearing my doubts about hand touch!
Glad you liked it!
If you want to set perfect every time, keep reading. We are going to help you set with more accuracy, more consistency and more confidence! Get the positioning and the mechanics to control the second touch with a bump set AND with hand sets! You’ll also learn to develop a mindset that makes you WANT to set every ball! NO MORE NERVOUS SETTING. All you have to do is sign up for our Online Coaching Program, The Elite Performers Tribe. We take you through the basics and then work all the way up to pursuit path, foot sequencing, rhythm and advanced offensive play sets so you put every ball in the perfect spot for your hitter.
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Great video! Hopefully more players young and old will watch it.
Very informative, Nice Video and Thanks for sharing 😊
You're welcome!
Any other rules or things you think we should cover?
Thank you soooo much for this.
you're welcome! thanks for the comment!
I want more videos explaining the overhand digging of hard driven balls. And maybe examples of those digs that the referee deems to not be a hard driven ball or that the player was far enough so that the overhand dig was not allowed. Or an example of a situation where the defense player decided already that he/she was going for an overhand dig -> fault?
Good Video!
Great video Mark.
Thank you sir!
I play indoor volleyball setter but these tips still helped me a lot, really appreciated it
awesome, glad you liked it! very welcome
Great stuff yet again Mark, Brandon and team. While all these rules are all correct, people need to make sure that their local/national league/tourney honor them. Unfortunately, a lot of places have house rules and so that doesn't help demistify these facts. While, I can understand why these places to make their own "rules" (it makes reffing "easier", gateway to play, etc.) it doesn't help elevate the game so much.
I'm with you!!! House rules make it tough to understand whats happening when its on Prime or TV... It makes it so that even die hard vballers can't explain properly to new fans
Thank you for your video, thanks from Mexico
De nada amigo!!!
Good job Mark!
Thanks Dave! Been getting a lot more questions. Gotta get you out for a video to make "calls" from a bunch of different angles and give the explanations. would be really cool
This is THE video . Thanks
You’re Welcome!!! If you get on our email list we send you our new releases and our old favorites plus some playing tips every week!! We also give you a Free Drill Book just for signing up! www.betteratbeach.com/freebeachvolleyballdrillbook
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Great video!! I think it would be great if you add the FIVB ruling as commentary boxes for these calls... I have had wayyyy too many arguments where people refuse to listen unless I pull up the rule itself (particularly for setting intent and the ball goes over... I asked in volleychat!).
Thanks for this awesome concise video Mark!
You should check out the FIVB Casebook for officials. It’s on the same page as the rule book, but describes a game situation that is often in the “grey” area, then properly explains the correct ruling and references the applicable rules. Ive actually printed it out and just handed it to people when they don’t want to listen.
@@pro-v7500 i didn’t know that was a thing, definitely going to check it out!
I recommend heading to our setting thread in VolleyChat and saving it. A few of our FIVB refs have made comments with the screenshots of the rules. facebook.com/groups/betteratbeach
@Nick Martien do you have a link?
@@betteratbeachvolleyball I got you fam:
www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Refereeing/FIVB%20Beach%20Volleyball%20Casebook%202019%20Edition%20v5.1.pdf
There are also a handful of references to”playing the ball” in the FIVB Referee Guidelines and Instructions as well:
www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document_Refereeing/2019/2018-19%20BVB%20RDM%20-%20App%201%20-%20Refereeing%20Guidelines%20and%20Instructions.pdf
quite good video !!!
Thanks!
I really liked your explanation on all the setting rules. I can't tell you how many times I've argued exactly what you said but there is this community interpretation of the rules which do not reflect the actual rules. On your last point about hard driven balls ... it is often argued that the ball has to be hit in a downward trajectory (you used "on a line" ... which is more accurate). There isn't anything in the rules that states it needs to be hit downward. It even states in some rule books that a hit from below the net (and even from the hitter standing on the ground) could be ruled a hard driven ball. I just wanted to make that clarification. Thanks for the video and again, great explanation on the setting rules!
Thanks, glad you liked it!! Yes, so true, everyone interprets the rules differently or simply repeats things they've heard that are not in the real rule book at all! Feel free to pull up this video when you get into rule arguments😉
Would love a video on dinks and technicality of illegal tipping! (My rec group keeps arguing about slappy/cutty open hand attacks that land short) Thanks!
Great suggestion, thanks! I would LOVE if you posted this question in our public Facebook group, VolleyChat: facebook.com/groups/betteratbeach! We have real AVP and FIVB refs as members who can answer these types of questions!
You can contact any ball (1st, 2nd or 3rd touch) with an open hand as long the ball does not "stick" in your hand. Basically, if the ball pops right off your open hand - you will hear the "pop" sound - it is always legal. If you take it more softly and it stays in your hand for any amount of time rather than immediately leaving your hand, that is illegal and would be considered a "throw" or "carry."
thank you!!!
you're welcome!
Fantastic summary Mark...nice work! It would be awesome if you could have shown a video clip of an instance where a not-so-hard driven ball could be dug with open hands, due to close proximity and/or low time to react. That would be super insightful to see as well. Thanks again!
Thanks! we can put that in line for videos to come. Maybe get one of our referee friends to make GAME calls in different scenarios!
Thanks
Very clarifying
glad you liked it!
much needed video
Glad you liked it. Now imagine what a 30 Day Setting Program could do for you :)))) You can see what that would be like right here. www.betteratbeach.com/howtosetavolleyball
Very useful video. Thank You for making it.
The purpose of the rule that I can’t understand: why You need to be facing ball when you send it to the opponents side with open hands? Why can’t you set without looking or sideways? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to play without this rule?
Probably because points would end to quickly. With sets over and finger action allowed, I think the game becomes "ugly" for the purists.. and rallies are fun. so the rules were created to increase rallies.
Gotta save that video and keep it ready to show every time i play :D
EVERY. TIME! hahaha
Saludos de argentina muy buen video!!
Saludos a ti!!! Estoy veniendo a Argentina en 2022. De donde eres? Qual ciudad? Did I say all that right?
@@betteratbeachvolleyball Ey genial, soy de Rawson capital de la provincia del Chubut.
Jugamos al beach volley en un de las playas mas ventosas de aquí!.
Y si lo hiciste bien porqué pude entender el mensaje
That's rad. Cheers. I might get my sports centre onto these video's. Most players aren't playing correctly due to the level of referees, (almost anything goes) is there one about open hand carrying at all, alot of players are playing with open hands to get the ball opposed digging, I just want the centres standard to get better.
You should!!! I We could also do a private training webinar specifically for the people in your town/facility. To do that, we need to be put in contact with the court/league/facility/tournament director. If you know them personally and think that might be cool, to do a 2 hour online training with a big question and answer session for just your people, send an email to support@betteratbeach.com and make sure you add the Director to the email with an introduction to us! We could make it happen! or of course, if you'd rather just beat everyone in your town you could sign up for our Online Coaching Program on your own. hehehehe :) ...... but seriously.. www.betteratbeach.com
Hey I really appreciate your videos. I wonder if you have any tips for properly identify carries and doubles in beginners level recreational volleyball. Our group have been struggling to agree on that. Thanks!
Our advice, really is to let most of it go. Play on and get more touches. Don't stress about tiny little details yet. If you blow the whistle every play, you never get the touches to get better.
Thanks, great explanation. One small thing about open hand digs - the ball being "hard driven" might be redundant in the equation. For example, you can be covering your partner's attack and the ball bounces off the opponent's block. You are 3 feet off the net and you've got a split second to react - you do an open hand dig with a double touch, and it's legal. Just because it's a reaction play, and there's no other way you could play that ball.
great addition!
Hitting with an open hand is only a fault if it's an attack '13.2.3 A player completes an attack-hit using an open-handed finger action or if using finger tips that are not rigid and together.'
@@dylancowmeadow4280 That is not correct.
Your quote: "Hitting with an open hand is only a fault if it's an attack '13.2.3 A player completes an attack-hit using an open-handed finger action or if using finger tips that are not rigid and together.' "
Open hand plays/hits can of course be a fault when they are not an attack hit.
FIVB Official Beach Volleyball Rules
2021 - 2024
9.2.2 The ball must not be caught or thrown. It can rebound in any direction.
Example:
FIVB Beach Volleyball Rules of the Game - CASEBOOK 2022
5.3.10
If a player is playing the ball in a specific way - by utilizing a defensive technique on a hard driven ball, with open outstretched forearms and with fingers pointing downwards to the ground on both hands - and extends his/her hand contact with the ball momentarily (i.e. there is no REBOUND from the hands), should the 1st referee consider this as a “Catch”?
Ruling
Yes. With the possible exception of setting overhand with fingers, Volleyball hits involve a rebound from the contact point. The action described in the case will create a hit which is not a rebound, because this technique involves both wrists being inverted (thus fingers pointing downwards to the ground, palms upwards and thumbs facing sideways - which the
rules specifically regard as illegal) the referee should consider this as a CATCH.
@@sk.43821 I said hitting not catching. Your example is a fault for catching, not for hitting with an open hand.
@@dylancowmeadow4280
FIVB Official Beach Volleyball Rules
2021 - 2024
9.1 Team Hits
*"A hit is any contact with the ball by a player in play."*
☝️☝️☝️
9.2 Characteristics Of The Hit
9.2.2 The ball must not be caught or thrown. It can rebound in any direction.
13.1 Charakteristics Of The Attack Hit
13.1.1 All actions which direct the ball towards the opponent, with the exception of service and block, are considered as attack hits.
Conclusion: The attack hit is a special hit, distinguished from other hits in the play by the attribute 'directed towards the opponent'. Still all other contacts in play are *hits.*
Would be great to see the corresponding CVBA rules covered in a video. Thank you!
For example:
15.9 If during reception of a serve, a player attempts to receive serve in an open handed setting motion, it is a fault and the serving team wins the point.
Yah I was confused by this because I thought you were never allowed to open hand pass a serve or freeball??
I think in cvba you can technically openhand everything (^except the serve) as long as it is clean ???
3:35 I always thought that if the ball spins 2 times it’s a “double” no mater what. Man, I’ve been called out so many times for spinning it even though it’s a clean (both hands touch at the same time) set.
Only playing for fun, I had no idea there were such complications in rules. Thanks I hate the moment when I'll encounter someone pulling this rule book on me
In detail the rules can be pretty complex. Arguments between national level referees included. And one national level referee even commented wrong on a rule here in the comments section.
Just have fun! That is most important.
that footwork by sarah my god
Hi there
What about back or foward spin when hand setting a ball 🤔
Didn't realize setting first ball was legal, but makes sense that we should use the same rules as 2nd ball setting
dude, i tell you this all the time! haha.. makes sense you listen to a more "authorative" source, lol. Glad it's out here in one place though. Thanks Mark and Team!
Hi Mark. Great video question ..if I block the block, as the blocker can I retouch the ball. Example I block, ball goes in the air and my partner is not near to touch ball. Also whats a legal and illegal touch?
Just want to mention, the FIVB rulebook states specifically that a ball may be contacted multiple, consecutive times as part of one action in reception, except when receiving using an overhand finger pass. Otherwise, no restictions are put on overhand finger passes during reception, unless they are used as an attack hit, in which case attack hit restricrions also apply.
Many players are used to indoor volley, where the overhand finger pass is not an exception to multiple consecutive contacts within the same action being allowed. Therefore, many players are used to being allowed double contact on their overhand finger passes. This may be the reason why people are often tought "no overhand finger pass on reception", since it is the quickest and easiest way to ensure they don't get called double contact on overhand finger pases in reception. If they are used to doing this in indoor, as it is legal there, it may be a hard habit to break, so it may be a useful tip for non- beach players getting used to beach, however it is a fairly significant misinterpretation of the rules.
I just recently played beach with a group from a local volleyball team, where lots of players yelled at me when I received using a very clean overhand finger pass (in this specific case I would argue no judge would call double). Everyone seemed to "know" the fake rule, and unfortunately their coach/ referee wasn't there either to clear things up. Becuase no one seemed to know the rules properly, and this was the start of the beach season, I didn't argue much against them, but I wish fewer people believed this myth that overhand finger pases are never allowed in reception.
Thanks for this video, very well explained. Just one question about the hard-driven ball: you said you can double but not lift it, however when I read the corresponding FIVB rule: "In defensive action of a hard driven ball, the ball contact can be extended momentarily even if an overhand finger action is used." I understand it is lifting you can do but not double. Who's right?
prolonged contact is the space between a carry and a rebound hahaha... its like a dream within a dream... inception
You still can't double a hard driven ball (when playing with finger tips/setting) ; you are permitted to extend the contact however if you try to set
There is no rule called LIFT. Any first hit can be a double hit, unless played overhand using fingers. Hard-driven no longer matters for double hits, that's an obsolete rule. '9.2.2.2 Consecutive contacts: At the first hit of the team, provided it is not made overhand with fingers, consecutive contacts are permitted provided that the contacts occur during one action. During the first hit of the team if it is played overhand using fingers, the ball may NOT contact the fingers/ hands consecutively, even if the contacts occur during one action.'
@JohanOudinet
You are right. This explanation in the video is simply wrong.
Also could you do a video on knuckle shots and what's legal with tips
Head to this link www.betteratbeach.com/blog/27-beach-volleyball-hitting-drills-guaranteed-to-make-you-a-better-attacker and look for "Five Beach Volleyball Drills You Can Do Solo" You can also learn a lot about pokies here: ua-cam.com/video/0egOviNYBSg/v-deo.html But of course, you're going to learn a lot more and get better A LOT faster if you sign up for our Online Coaching Program... We cover defensive emergency touches and I'll show you some full practice plans and offensive designs that help you master it... PLUS you'll get to show us your videos as you go so we can make corrections along the way! Go ahead and get better fast! sign up and I'll see you at the next meeting! www.betteratbeach.com
Can you review Kageyama Tobio's sets for doubles, I would like to know if they are doubles and why.
I would love to hear your opinions on "line backsplash," or if the line can move from the sand splash and not because the ball hit it. The AVP commentator this weekend said if the line moves at all, the call will always be in. It is extraordinarily rare that the sand splash will cause line movement and no AVP/FIVB ref will give an out call if the line moves at all.
I really liked when they had the hawk eye camera during and, for a bit, following the last Olympics. The challenges took like 15 seconds and didn't seem to interrupt the game too much. It also overturned a lot of ref calls.
DAY 9 OF COMMENTING UNTIL I MAKE IT TO HERMOSA🤠🤠🤠!!!! I’m just now gaining confidence with my hands in tournaments and always thought you had to set with your shoulders square to where your setting. THANK YOU for the clarification!
we are waiting for you
What are the rule books used for this discussion ? FIVB ? AVP ? What about CBVA, which doesn't seem to use either FIVB or AVP ?
Great video! I was wondering if im jumping to spike a ball and change my mind mid air can I send it over like a set with 2 hands
Yes, you can do that. Of course the contact must be clean.
The 'set' with two hands (in the rules: play 'overhand with fingers') must be perpendicular to the line of shoulders, and can be played forwards or backwards.
Important: The referee considers the line of shoulders at the initial stage of the contact with the ball. You have to establish your shoulder position before the contact is made.
No setting as attack hit out of a twist of your upper body.
Guys thanks for another Great Video. Quick question: you mentioned that the hand set can pass the net on the situations you mentioned, I got that I have seen that few times, but what about the third touch? It is allowed to "attack" with a hand set? I am on the understanding that this is a big no-no... Greetings from Spain!
You are if your shoulders are facing the direction you set, our directly backwards over you're head. You cannot set on purpose diagonal or sideways from where your shoulders are facing
@@betteratbeachvolleyball wow thanks for the clarification, as many comments here, I was totally against ✋✋ Thanks!!!
HI, thanks for the video! We just had a discussion last night in a league about setting over. The part I want clarification on is when someone sets over purposefully, can do they do it forcefully (is this considered a "throw"?) or does it have to put a set similar to the one if your video and one you would set to a teammate?
A set is a set is a set. The rules for all hand contacts are the same.
Hey, great video. Question: You "bump or hand set" and the ball on they way up from your hands touches your hats visor, is that a double ? Thank you
If it's the first touch over the net it would be good. If it's the second or third touche its illegal
@@betteratbeachvolleyball So I dig a shorty that just came over, it skims off my hat brim, ok to proceed?
Can you back set over the net as a deliberate attack? (Confused by the bit abouy being square to the net)
Hi Thanks for the live reaction vid! This channel has so many small technical tips that are absolutely amazing! The little move I wanted to clarify a bit happens on the two sets at 2:58. To me it looks like: After you set the first ball ( your arms are fully extended, ball is at peak height), as you wait for the ball to descend, you bring your elbows and hands quite low, hands are about chin level (ball is still high in the air), and then the hands bounce upwards to above head level as you wait for the final ball approach (can see it very clearly in .25x speed) and then the ball is received in the hands to be set. What is the purpose of this "pre-bounce" is it for timing? or do you get some momentum from it? Thanks again!
I think all players find the rhythm and speed of the ball in a unique way... we all have slightly different styles much like pitchers and basketball players have their unique movements. This one is just mine i guess
Question: If a ball hits the net from the apposing side can you have your hand right at the net on your side, the ball hits the net, pushes through, and hit your hand?
that's legal if you didn't move your hand to the ball. if you leave your hand still and the ball brings the net to your hand, it is allowed
In beach, if a serve receive hits your platform (forearms) then hits somewhere else on your body (like face), is that a legal first touch?
Short answer: sounds legal, but it depends. Official FIVB rule:
9.2.2.2 Consecutive contacts:
At the first hit of the team, provided it is not made overhand with
fingers) consecutive contacts are permitted provided that the contacts
occur during one action During the first hit of the team if it is played
overhand using fingers, the ball may NOT contact the fingers/ hands
consecutively, even if the contacts occur during one action.
Good reply Simas.
The official rule is interesting, I've always played that multiple contacts are allowed within 1 motion, only on a hard (some would say also: downward) driven ball.
Does this apply to indoor volleyball as well?
Important to know- House rules always trump real rules. If your local league or tournament has some weird spin rule or whatever, that will throw your rulebook knowledge out the window
Definitely!
A sand doubles league that has been in existence for over 30 years and have spawned some AVP players have a few house rules. One being ..to be able to play the ball off of the oak tree limbs, that are behind the court;) Coming from a fellow GMU VB alumni and AVP player from 1982-1987.
BTW..great job at Pottstown great to see fellow GMU great Ric Lucas there. Congrats to his son. My son also made it to the second day..woohoo! Hey .great video Mark..these tips will help a lot of ballers. Way different than the 1980s AVP days.
@@johnhughes3963 Shout out to John are you the father of the wonderful Abbie Hughes?
@@eb4452 ..no..Genevieve Hughes and John Hughes Jr, both played college and beach. Johnny at Pottstown Rumble today and tomorrow. Abbie is also awesome!! ,as is Sara too;)
Can you please do a rule video for spiking?
We have A LOT of videos on attacking but what rules are you talking about? If you're curious and you want to score more points, our Offensive Training Bundle can help you out ... www.betteratbeach.com
So is it right that you can hand set a 1st touch from a non-hard driven attack as long as its not a double?
Anyone in an fivb or avp tournament ever hand set a serve? Would love a video link to it.
I'll do it for you this year :)
my laptop speakers. Any suggestions on what to do to get my soft back? I recently updated. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Can we do it just like the indoor volleyball?
would you say the new OPTX feels better than the older AVP? i still have my old AVP but i’m debating on trying the OPTX
It is a little slick out of the package but it seems like the same ball to me.
in my opinion, the older balls aged better. The new OPTX balls soften, and have a little extra, I don't know, paint? or cushion? Their life seems to be a lot shorter... but You should make the switch quick because, you have to get used to it for tournaments... if you take this route to buy one, www.betteratbeach.com/shop It helps us out... Click on the AllVolleyball.com Banner to buy yours!
Hi Mark - If your hands are together on serve receive, but the ball "sticks" to your hand because you're using your fingers to control the ball (even slightly), is that illegal? (And if so, is it a double or a lift?)
Naomi, that's a throw/lift. Your fingers can CONTACT the ball, but not be used to control it with "finger action".. its up to the refs interpretation on if you legit utilized your finger movement to manipulate the ball.... The members in our Online Training Program know that we work REALLY HARD not to be forced into that overhead receive position. And we give a few weeks of drills you can do at home, plus video feedback to make sure you don't get caught too! You can jump straight into the Passing and Serve Receive Master Class if you sign up now, www.betteratbeach.com. We are doing nothing but serve receive training and analysis for the next month!!! Bring it on!
Are you allowed to set over on the third touch?
Are we allowed to play overhand pass for the first contact? if it is fault what is the hand signal?
Awesome video, but there's a few things in this video that aren't 100% accurate.
At 7:12 Mark says that you can't lift a hard-driven ball, but in 14.4 of the AVP rulebook it says "In this case [of a hard driven ball], the ball can be held momentarily overhand with the fingers"
Also, Mark mentions that you're allowed to set the serve -- this is true in the AVP and FIVB, but not in CBVA where I imagine many of the viewers play in. In the CBVA rulebook, 15.9 explicitly makes hand setting a serve a fault. CBVA, FIVB and AVP all do allow for (cleanly) hand setting a free ball though.
Great research! Thank you!
“Held momentarily overhand with the fingers” is a reference to “prolonged contact” (aka hand setting contact), not a lift/catch. There are two types of contact that are legal: rebound and prolonged. What that rule is saying is that a hard driven ball can be received with prolonged contact (open hand fingers) and not be at the risk of a double contact fault. You can receive any first ball with prolonged contact, but on hard driven attacks (serves are not attacks) are you allowed to do so without being at risk of double contact. However, you are always at risk of a catch fault (aka “lift”), regardless of the scenario.
Another way to look at it is you can double any first contact (soft attack, hard driven attack, blocks, or serves) as long as it’s one motion/action and the ball rebounds (aka not prolonged with open hand fingers). Only hard driven attacks give the defender the freedom to double with prolonged contact.
This is why “hands must be touching” is a bad misconceived rule. It’s a self-perpetuated misconception that stems from people assuming you can never use prolonged contact with open hand fingers on first touches. So people say hands must be touching, since that will prevent your from using fingers.
@@pro-v7500 Yeah for sure it's not a carte blanche to catch the ball, but the standards are different from an ordinary contact in that the ball does not have to rebound off your fingers as you mentioned. ua-cam.com/video/JTS917r8XVg/v-deo.html has an AVP ref briefly talking about digging hard driven balls overhand, but it doesn't go into a ton of detail. Basically, I think Mark's comments at 7:12 warranted more of an explanation.
I do not think your reading of how prolonged contact and double contacts interact on the first ball are completely accurate, namely it is not true than you can always receive the first ball with prolonged contact. E.g. when picking up a high line with one hand, players will often be called for a lift if the ball sticks on their fingers or hand, even if the contact is no longer than an ordinary hand set. To be honest, I don't think the rules are particularly consistent since they seem to allow for prolonged contact only when using two hands, but never explicitly call that out anywhere in the rulebook to my knowledge.
In any case, we both agree on the net effect on play (you can hand set a hard driven ball to roughly the same contact duration standards as an ordinary hand set), and I thought the video could have benefitted from a bit more detail regarding all of these nuances. In particular, I would have loved to hear what a ref will call as a lift when digging a hard driven ball overhand with fingers, since this is a frequent point of contention on my beach.
Any video of an actual avp player setting a serve in a tournament? I cant find one online. The avp rulebook does not say its illegal but is there a video of avp or fivb players setting someones jumpserves in a tournament and not getting called??
It would be a bold and risky play. Usually not worth it.. but if you watch enough of Adrian Carambula, you'll see him take a few free balls with his hands.
@@betteratbeachvolleyball Completely understand and there are multiple video's online currently of a few different players in tournaments hand setting free balls that came to them and even attacking with sets. My main issue is on the serve, as just because its not illegal doesn't mean anyone can physically pull off hand setting a serve clean enough that a ref would ever allow it to stand as a legal play. I guess maybe a mid height underhand serve? It's just so many people are turning to you for the rules (which you are helpfully and correctly giving them from everything I have read on your posts and in your videos) but you don't seem to be acknowledging or expressing to the viewers that even pro's can't set serves and not get called. Saying its a "bold and risky play so its usually not worth it" isn't really the same as acknowledging that no one has done it in a pro tournament and gotten away with it. I think we all want more people to play volleyball and learn to hand set and that hand setting is usually considered the hardest part of beach volleyball. The problem is, that by just saying that it technically could be a legal play "if clean," you are making all these people think that its fair game and that because they are a decent setter they can do it. I feel your actually going to cause more arguments in tournaments by not stressing how almost impossible it is, as now average players are going to start setting serves that even Pros can't. I would love to see you guys test this in a tournament for us though?? Shorter courts, net serves, much looser set calls - just to name a few, has changed the game so much over the years already. Lets not promote everyone throwing their fingers on a served ball.
💙💙💙
:)
Is a stuff block considered hard driven? If my partner hits into the block and I am down covering, can I legally use open hands to receive the block if that's the only thing I have time to do?
Depends if you are watching AVP or FIVB. If it's FIVB, there are no doubles or lifts ;)
HAHAHA DOUBLES no... lifts... i think they would call lifts before doubles.... unless adrian is setting.. then they just admire with open drooling mouths
Is beach volleyball hand setting rules the same as the ones in court volleyball
Can you set serve back over the net on first contact?
Can you one handed set in sand?
If I am standing at the net and ball hit my fingers (such that ball actually landed on my fingers and not my palm) and then passed onto the other member of the team. Would this be considered a carry or a lift ?
Excellent video! Quick question... I get that spin is just an indicator. However, I've had several more experienced players that place in big tournaments (A/AA) tell me that even slight ball spin directionally forward or backward on an open hand set is still called as a double. I don't understand how it could be because the lack or a horizontal or diagonal spin would indicate the ball released from both hands at the same exact time. Is there something I'm missing that you may have seen should be called as a double?
It's difficult to argue rationally with people who are not trained referees and have not read a rule book.
@@betteratbeachvolleyball there is also the self/player reffed tournament-official rules aspect to. I’ve played in a handful of non-AVP affiliated tournaments through the south east US (Texas to Florida) that actually have an allowable number of spins listed in their tournament rules. When I ask why they say “to make a grey area black and white” so non-trained ref’s don’t get put under the burden of making perceived judgement calls.
I’ve been in that situation where a tournament match was ref’s by players and there wasn’t a spin rule (on both sides of the call). It can be very frustrating when untrained, distracted, exhausted players are making judgement calls. But I also hate that it deviates from the official rules. It can be a blessing and a curse. A blessing for lower divisions and a curse for AA/Open divisions when the rule is tournament wide.
@@pro-v7500 it seems a pretty smart rule for self governed tournaments. Then you just have to argue if it was two spins or 1 and 7/8 spins :)
@@sharkh20 lol exactly.
You can throw a ball at a wall and have it bounce with spin
Hey Mark, are you allowed to not be facing the net, jump and turn mid air to square up with the net, and set (attack) it over?
this happens a lot with my friends and is a hotly debated topic lol
Same hear....I hate when my friends do it!!! I read the rules and nothing say that its not possible....I think it is a matter of: were the shoulders rotated fast enough that the ball is not held for too long (i.e. extended contact or carry)
Good question
Yes, but only if you do not have possession of the ball when you are turning. If the ball enters your hands and then turn and release (either jumping or with feet on the ground) then that will be a lift/catch fault.
As Mark demonstrated, if the ball changes directions in your hands it is a lift. This doesn’t just apply to down then up, it also applies to a sideways direction to. It is very, very doubtful that you jump and turn with possession of the ball and your hands are perfectly in-line with your vertical axis that you are turning on.
So for it to be legal you would have to jump, turn, then start and finish your prolonged contact with your hand setting motion fast enough that you are not turning during the contact. So yes legal in theory, but very very impossible in practice.
Remember you don’t have to be square to the net, you just have to set square to your shoulders (forwards or backwards). So all you need to do is take a small adjustment right before you jump so you are not turning during your jump. Avoid the over complication and just turn before you jump to avoid the issue.
This would be REALLLLYYY tough to call for a ref and if you do it, you're leaving it up to chance.... Nick explained it really nicely.. But I would LOVE if you posted the same thing VolleyChat! .... That way our FIVB and AVP refs could answer it as well.. facebook.com/groups/betteratbeach
are players allowed to serve with arms only or legs, head also are allowed?
So many people call it different...In my amateur group, they don't allow open hand receive or even set overs for they claim there is not an actual official to make the call. thus, it's easier to just not allow it. Then i go too another region and got flack for trying to implement that.
Also, if the group is playing 3x3 or 4x4 does that make the rule different?
Is it legal to attack with hand setting on first touch ( if ball direction is perpendicular to shoulders, no double, no lift) ?
Yes.
Yes, an attack in the rules doesn't care if it's the first touch or the third: "13.1.1 All actions which direct the ball towards the opponent, with the exception of service and block, are considered as attack hits."
Arday, looks like these guys answered you correctly! Thanks for the question!
One thing I’m curious about is if someone is setting and they decide to use the outside open hand to swat the ball over on 2, is that legal?
Are the rules explained here only for the US or are they international rules by the FIVB? I am as much shocked as I am confused now. Good video anyway.
FIVB AND AVP
Can you intentionally set a ball backwards to attack as long as you are square to the ball?
yes